I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade—(1) whether his attention has been called to the case of a Mr. Herbert Walker, a Royal Naval Reserve fireman, who was engaged in the port of Middlesbrough on 27th May last by the chief engineer of the steamship Mennythorpe to serve on that vessel, on condition that Walker had a Federation ticket; (2) whether he is aware that the master and engineer went to the Shipping Federation Office to get their crew, that the Shipping Federation official (whose name is Beresford) objected to Walker signing on the vessel although he had a Federation ticket, and was a Royal Naval Reserve man, and that this Federation official supplied another fireman in the place of Walker; and (3) whether he can state if the said Federation official is licensed by the Board of Trade to supply seamen, and, if not, whether he intends to take any steps to prosecute such official for illegally supplying seamen (under section 146, sub-section i., of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1854)?
The only complaint which I have received is one contained in a letter from the hon. Member himself. I have inquired of the Shipping Federation what they have to say about the matter, and they answer as follows:—
The Federation official is not licensed by the Board of Trade. As regards prosecution, I must refer the hon. Member to the very full answer given on this subject by my predecessor in the House on June 20th, 1893, in which the difficulties that beset the question and the position adopted by the Board of Trade are clearly stated."It is true that a fireman named Herbert Walker was informed by the chief engineer of the s. s. Mennythorpe, on or about 27th May, that he would be engaged as firemen on that vessel, subject to the Master's approval, provided his Federation papers were in due order. Walker was sent to the Federation office at Middlesbro' with the rest of the intended crew, that it might be ascertained whether their papers were all regular, when it was found that those of Walker were not in order, and that he had omitted to re-register his ticket and benefit book in accordance with the rules. On this being pointed out to him he became abusive, using foul language, and the engineer of the Mennythorpe, acting on the instructions of the Master, thereupon selected another fireman from amongst the men in attendance at the office in the place of Walker."
I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not the fact that in this case the whole crew was supplied by this Federation, and, if this were so, is it not a breach of the Merchant Shipping Act for any person to supply seamen who is not duly licensed by the Board of Trade, and what steps does the Board of Trade intend to take in order to put down this illegal supply of seamen?
It is extremely difficult to answer this question, which is a long and complicated one, within the proper limits of an answer. All I can say, within the proper limits of an answer, is this: Some years ago a question arose whether the Seamen's and Firemen's Union should be allowed to supply crews, the members of the Union being persons who were not licensed by the Board of Trade. It was decided in this case that they should not be prosecuted, although they were not officially licensed. That decision was subsequently upheld in a case in which persons representing the Shipping Federation supplied crews, and upon those lines the policy of the Board of Trade has since proceeded. If the hon. Gentleman will refer to a very long answer given in the House in June 1893 by my predecessor, he will find the matter fully stated there; and I cannot add anything to what was said then.
I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is not aware of the fact that this man was a Royal Naval Reserve man, and that Royal Naval Reserve men cannot get employment.
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Order, order! The hon. Member is asking a question altogether different from that on the Paper.
said, that he should like to ask for some further information upon the subject.
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Order, order! The question upon the Paper has already been answered.