House Of Commons
Monday, 4th March, 1901.
Two other Members took and subscribed the Oath.
Private Bill Business
Private Bills (Standing Order 62 Complied With)
MR. Speaker laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the ease of the following Bills, referred on the First Beading thereof, Standing Order No. 62 has been complied with, viz.:—
- Devonport Gas and Coke Bill.
- Glasgow and Renfrew District Railway
- Transfer Bill.
- North British Railway Bill.
- Thames Deep Water Dock Bill.
Ordered, That the Bills be read a second time.
Private Bills (Petition For Additional Provision) (Standing Orders Not Complied With)
MR. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the Petition for additional Provision in the following Bill, the Standing Orders have not been complied with, viz.:—
London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway Bill.
Ordered, That the Report be referred to the Select Committee on Standing Orders.
Bexley Tramways Bill
"To empower the Urban District Council of Boxley to construct and work tramways; and for other purposes," read the first time; to be read a second time.
Cambrian Railways Bill
"To authorise the Cambrian Railways Company to extend their railway at Pwllheli; to construct a fixed instead of an opening bridge over the River Dovey; to grant further powers to that company in respect of the use of steam vessels; and for other purposes," read the first time:. and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills.
South Yorkshire Electric Power Bile
"For incorporating and conferring powers on the South Yorkshire Electric-Power Company; and for other purposes," read the first time; to be read a second time.
Aldeburgh Corporation (Water) Bill
Bingley Urban District Council Bill
Blackburn Corporation Bill
BRADFORD CORPORATION BILL.
BRIGHTON CORPORATION BILL.
BURY CORPORATION BILL.
BURY CORPORATION TRAMWAYS BILL.
BURTON UPON-TRENT CORPORATION BILL.
CALEDONIAN ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
CARDIFF CORPORATION BILL.
CLEVELAND AND DURHAM COUNTY ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
CLYDE VALLEY ELECTRICAL POWER BILL.
COLWYN BAY AND COLWYN URBAN DISTRICT GAS BILL.
DERBY CORPORATION BILL.
DERBYSHIRE AND NOTTINGHAMSHIRE ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
DEVONPORT CORPORATION (GAS) BILL.
DERWENT VALLEY WATER BOARD BILL.
ECCLES CORPORATION BILL.
HARTLEPOOLS GAS AND WATER TRANSFER BILL.
HECKMONDWIKE GAS (TRANSFER) BILL.
HONLEY URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL (GAS) BILL.
HUMBER COMMERCIAL RAILWAY AND DOCK BILL.
ILKESTON AND HEANOR WATER BOARD BILL.
IRISH PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH BILL.
Read a second time, and committed.
Kettering Urban District Water Bill
Kingston-Upon-Hull Corporation Bill
Llandrindod Wells Urban District Council Water Bill
LONDON BRIDGE WIDENING BILL.
LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (GENERAL POWERS) BILL.
MANSFIELD CORPORATION BILL.
NEATH HARBEUR BILL.
NEWRY PORT AND HARBOUR TRUST BILL.
PAISLEY POLICE AND PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
PEMBROKE URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL (COUNTY OF DUBLIN) BILL.
PETERSFIELD AND SELSEY GAS BILL.
RHYL IMPROVEMENT BILL.
SHANNON WATER AND ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
SHIREOAKS, LAUGHTON, AND MALTBY RAILWAY BILL.
SOUTHAMPTON AND WINCHESTER GREAT WESTERN JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL.
STALYBRIDGE, HYDE, MOSSLEY, AND DUKINFIELD TRAMWAYS AND ELECTRICITY BOARD BILL.
SWANAGE GAS AND WATER BILL.
TEES VALLEY WATER BEARD BILL.
THAMES PIERS AND RIVER SERVICE BILL.
WALLASEY IMPROVEMENT BILL.
WELLS CORPORATION WTATER BILL.
WOLVERHAMPTON AND CANNOCK CHASE RAILWAY BILL.
YORKSHIRE ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
Read a second time, and committed.
Morton Carr Drainage
Petition, and Bill ordered to be brought in by Sir Frederick Milner and Mr. Faber.
Petitions
Elementary Education (Higher Grade And Evening Continuation Schools)
Petitions for alteration of Law, from Kingston-upon-Hull; Ipwich; Enfield; Shipley; Ilford; Newcastle-upon-Tyne; Wellingberough; and Kettering; to lie upon the Table.
Gabinddas
Petition from Gabinddas, for redress of grievances; to lie upon the Table.
Poor Law Officers' Superannuation Act, 1896
Petitions for alteration of Law, from Barnes; Ham; Heston and Isleworth; Ipswich; and Kingston-upon-Hull; to lie upon the Table.
Sahu, Jugrup
Petition from Jugrup Sahu, for redress of grievances; to lie upon the Table.
Sale Of Intoxicating Liquors On Sunday Bill
Petition from Leighton Buzzard, in favour; to lie upon the Table.
Sale Of Intoxicating Liquors To Children Bill
Petitions in favour, from Leighton Buzzard; and Rotherham; to lie upon the Table.
Vaccination Acts
Petition from London, for repeal lie upon the Table.
Returns, Reports, Etc
Militia Act, 1882 (Deputy Lieutenants, Ireland)
Copy presented, of Return of descriptions of qualifications of Deputy Lieutenants lodged during 1900, as furnished to the Secretary for Ireland [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
University Of Glasgow
Copy presented, of Abstract of Accounts of the University of Glasgow for the year ending 30th September, 1900 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 70.]
Commons Act, 1876 (Skipwith, East Riding Of York)
Copy presented, of Report by the Beard of Agriculture upon an application Petitions for alteration of Law, from for Provisional Orders for the Regulation Common and for the Inclosure of the Open Fields, respectively, at Skipwith, in the East Riding of the county of York [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 71.]
Commons Act, 1876 (Sutton, Northamptonshire)
Copy presented, of Report by the Beard of Agriculture upon an application for a Provisional Order for the Inclosure of the Open Fields and the Heath and Wastes in the parish of Sutton, in the county of Northampton [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 72.]
Board Of Agriculture (Inclosure, Etc, Expenses Act, 1868)
Copy presented, of Fees to be taken in respect of Transactions under the Agricultural Holdings Acts, 1883 to 1900, in accordance with the provisions of The Inclosure, etc., Expenses Act, 1868 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
Ecclesiastical Commission
Copy presented, of Fifty-third Report from the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for England, with an Appendix [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Pauperism (England And Wales) (Half-Yearly Statements)
Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 1st Mareh; Mr. Grant Lawson]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 73.]
Woods, Forests, And Land Revenues
Abstract Accounts presented, for the year ended 31st Mareh, 1900, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 74.]
Members Of The House Of Commons In Receipt Of Public Money
Return ordered, "showing the names of present Members of the House of Commons who are in receipt of Public Money from any public source, whether in the form of Salary, Pay, Pension, or Allowance of any kind, or who have received Commutation in respect thereof under the Commutation Acts; the amount they receive or have commuted, with the amount of the Commutation Money; and the name of the Office or nature of the
Service for which the Money is or has been paid (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 197, of Session 1897)."— ( Mr. Fenwick.)
Questions
South African War—Alleged Boer Recruiting In Belgium
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is aware that Beer agents are actively engaged throughout Belgium enlisting recruits for the Beer forces; and whether the Government have taken or intend to take any steps by friendly representations to the Belgian Government, or otherwise, to prevent a continuance of same.
I have to say that we have received no information which leads us to think that recruiting of the kind referred to by my lion, friend is being carried on.
Jameson Raid—Chaptered Company's Liability
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonics whether he can inform the House if the claim of the late Transvaal Government against the Chartered Company in respect of; the Jameson raid is a British asset; and, if so, whether he intends taking action against the Company for its recovery and, if no action is to be taken, will he explain the ground for so acting.
rose to answer the question.
May I rise to order, Sir? I should like to postpone this question until to-morrow, when, I trust, the Secretary of State for the Colonies will be here. I do not want a repetition of last week.
If the hon. Member will allow me to explain, I think I can satisfy him. My right lion, friend is unable to be here to-day— [An IRISH MEMBER: He is in the smoke- room]—but he has sent me his answer. Will that satisfy the hon. Gentleman?
Yes, that will do.
The claim of the South African Republic against the British South Africa Company was for £1,677,938 3s. 3d., including one million for moral and intellectual damage. This claim Her Majesty's Government declined to entertain as not being reasonable. The question whether the direct loss proved to have been suffered by the South African Republic in consequence of the raid can now be recovered from the British South Africa Company by His Majesty's Government or by the Government of the Colony, as successor to the South African Republic, is a question on which I am seeking the advice of the law officers. On receipt of their opinion His Majesty's Government will take the whole matter into consideration, and will communicate, if necessary, with Sir Alfred Milnor and with the British South Africa Company.
May I ask why the Secretary for the Colonies is not here?
I will tell the hon. Gentleman. Because it was necessary for my right hon. friend to consult the Prime Minister on a matter of great importance.
But as a matter of fact is not the right hon. Gentleman in the smoke-room now?
Order, order!
May I ask—
The question on the Paper has been fully answered.
May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will be good enough to be careful not lightly to give up this claim for the reason—
Order, order!
False Announcements On Newspaper Contents Bills
I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General whether his attention has been called to placards published by a London paper on 28th February, to the following effect: "Surrender of Botha, Official, Sun"; and whether, as news-vendors are prosecuted for crying false information, he proposes to take any steps against the proprietors of this paper.
I have been asked by my hon. and learned friend to answer this question. Newsvendors can only be prosecuted for obtaining, or attempting to obtain, money by false pretences, which is the case when it is proved that they knowingly call out news not contained in the paper they are trying to sell. I am advised that it is not likely that proceedings, if taken against the proprietors for obtaining or attempting to obtain money by false pretences, would be successful in this case. I may add that I have received from the editor of the Sun a letter, in which he expresses his deep regret for the occurrence, and says that—
"The news came to the Sun on authority which has never before failed us.ֵThe addition of the word 'official' was the result of a stupid misunderstanding among the staff, one of whom is now no longer in the service of the Sun."
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these "spots" on the Sun are very common in London papers?
[No answer was returned.]
British Reverses—Oommander-In-Chief's Reports
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, and, if so, when, ho will inform the House what were the actual circumstances of the surrenders at Nicholson's Nek, Reddersburg, and other unsuccessful actions in South Africa; and what is the report of the Commander-in-Chief thereupon.
The Commander-in-Chief does not consider it desirable to make a special report on each of the unsuccessful actions in South Africa, hut he has taken steps to deal suitably in each case with the officers in fault.
On what ground was an exception made in the case of the action at Sanna's Post?
A special report was made in regard to that action, and in his original despatch Lord Roberts alluded to that as a separate despatch which ho would publish.
Are we to understand that we are not to take the answer just given as going back in any sense from the promise made lately in debate on this subject?
Certainly not.
Paardeberg Operations
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been directed to the concluding paragraph in Lieut.-General Kelly-Kenny's Report to Lord Roberts, dated 20th February, 1900, on the operations at Paardeberg; whether, as a matter of fact, Lord Kitchener did direct the operations at Paardeberg Drift on the 18th February by suggestions to General Kelly-Kenny; and who is held responsible by the War Office and the Commander-in-Chief for the conduct of those operations.
Yes, Sir. I had that paragraph in my mind in the answers I gave last week, and I have nothing to add to them. General Kelly-Kenny is directly responsible for these operations, but the Commander-in-Chief takes full responsibility for what occurred.
Is the right lion. Gentleman aware that, according to the statement of The Times correspondent, General Kelly-Kenny telegraphed to Lord Roberts and received a reply from Lord Roberts to the effect that if more than one brigade were engaged Lord Kitchener was in command and he must take his orders from him?
I have explained the exact position of General Kelly-Kenny and I have nothing to add. Lord Kitchener was empowered by Lord Roberts to offer advice. He thought fit to do so from time to time, and General Kelly-Kenny accepted the advice.
Bloemfontein Hospitals
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that No. 8 General Hospital, one of the two largest hospitals at Bloemfontein, has remained on the same site for over ten months, the ground being thoroughly infected with enteric poison in consequence of the number of enteric cases treated there during and since the epidemic of last year; whether, in view of the increased rate of mortality from enteric in South Africa, immediate inquiry will be made as to why this hospital camp, in accordance with recognised principles of sanitation, should not have been long since moved to an entirely new site; and whether he can give the number of cases admitted to this hospital and the number of enteric deaths in it during each of the six months ending 31st January.
I am informed that this hospital has remained on the same site for ten months, but there appears to be no reason for anxiety as the site has been reported to be perfect, and the sanitary reports up to the 18th January state that the general sanitary conditions were good. The figures of this hospital are as follow:—
Admissions. | Deaths. | |
August | 220 | 3 |
September | 154 | — |
October | 26 | 1 |
November | 49 | 5 |
December | 61 | 3 |
January(to 25th) (to 25t | 93 | 12 |
Civil Surgeons In South Africa
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he will state with regard to the last fifty civilian surgeons and physicians engaged by the Royal Army Medical Staff Corps for employment in South Africa the length of time for which each had been legally qualified before being sent out.
Ten were qualified in 1901, ten in 1900, and nine in 1899. The remaining twenty-one have been qualified for varying periods going back as far as 1876.
Soldiers' Pensions
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider the propriety of placing non-commissioned officers and private soldiers who have been rendered wholly or partially incapable of earning a livelihood by disease, clearly due to active service in the field, on the same footing for pension purposes as those who have been similarly incapacitated by wounds or injuries.
All such cases will be specially considered with a view to the grant of a pension on the scale contemplated. The scale is under consideration.
Cost Of Transport Of Horses To The Cape
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he will state the cost per head of transporting horses to the Cape from Great Britain, United States, Canada, Hungary, Australia, and Argentina respectively.
The average prices of freight for horses to South Africa are as follows: — From Great Britain, £24 13s. 6d.; United States. £22 4s. 6d.; Canada, £23 14s. 4d.; Hungary, £21 5s. 7d.; Australia, £18; Argentina, £14 5s. 3d. The cost of conveying horses in transports to South Africa cannot be given.
Does the Return for Great Britain include Irish horses?
Yes, Sir.
Rest For Horses Landed At Cape Town
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether any steps are now being taken to insure sufficient rest being given to the horses landed at Cape Town, or other South African port, before they are sent on to the front, or otherwise employed in the service of the war.
I can assure the hon. Member that every care is being taken to secure the horses as long a rest as possible before going to the front. Lord Kitchener has recently informed me that he has got his supply of horses well in hand.
Commissions For The Yeomanry
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether a Yeoman wishful to obtain a commission in the Regular Army can do so on the same terms as are allowed to the Militia, and whether active service at the front would be reckoned as of equal value in both cases.
Yeomen who have served in South Africa are eligible for any direct commissions which may be granted for service in South Africa. They are not, however, qualified to go up for the Militia competitive examination. Some commissions will be placed at Lord Kitchener's disposal for the benefit of Yeomen.
Imperial Yeomanry—Accommodation For Recruits At Aldershot
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the men who have recently joined the Yeomanry and are now at Aldershot, holding themselves ready to proceed to the front, are without proper military boots and coats, and are rapidly developing pneumonia, and becoming generally unfit for service owing to the accommodation to which they have been subjected.
I must refer my hon. and gallant friend to a full reply on this subject which I gave to a question put by the hon. Member for the Basingstoke Division of Hants on Thursday last, the 28th ultimo.† I have since visited Aldershot, and in my opinion the authorities there have housed and equipped the very large number of Yeomanry who have arrived with a promptitude which deserves every commendation. The supply of men with all necessaries is proceeding at the rate of over 500 a day.
The Duke Of Cambridge's Yeomanry
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the stamp of men enlisting for the Duke of Cambridge's Yeomanry at 5s. per day; and whether this class of recruits justifies the additional rate of pay given.
Those men who have been accepted for the Duke of Cambridge's Yeomanry are fully qualified according to the standards, and justify the additional rate of pay given. A large number of the persons who offered themselves for enlistment have been rejected. It should be remembered that the men are as a rule some years older than ordinary recruits, and therefore are at the best military age.
English Purchase Of Artillery In Germany
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he can state on what Vote the field guns ordered from Germany will be charged.
These have been charged to Vote 9 for 1900–1.
Woolwich Arsenal—"Exertion Money"
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether his attention has been called to a statement with reference to certain irregularities at Woolwich Arsenal in connection with the payments to principal foremen under the head of exertion money, and whether he will consider the advisability in the public interest of exercising increased supervision in order that sufficient money may be saved to raise the wages of the lowest paid Government labourers.
†See page 32.
I have seen no statement of the kind, and those responsible in the Arsenal report that there are no grounds for the allegations in question in their respective departments. Special payments of exertion money will cease in the Ordnance Factories on the 31st instant.
What is "exertion money"?
[No answer was returned.]
Arber Hill Barracks, Dublin—Contracts—Fair Wages Clause
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he is aware that the contractor for extensive works at Ashurst Hill Barracks, Dublin, has subcontractors who do not carry out the Fair Wages Resolution or observe the hours of labour in preparing cut granite required for the work; and whether he will inquire into the complaint.
The contractor for the works at Arbor Hill Barracks— which are presumably those referred to by the hon. Member—buys his granite direct from a quarry in County Wicklow. On reference to the quarry in question, the General Commanding in Ireland is informed that the rate of wages current in the district where the stone is cut and dressed is duly paid.
Royal Army Medical Staff Corps — Recruiting Standards
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, if a man offers himself as a recruit for the Royal Army Medical Staff Corps, he cannot be accepted if over 5 feet 5 inches in height, although he may be eligible in all other respects; and whether he is eligible for the Militia Medical Staff Corps and the St. John Ambulance Brigade if above that height.
A man if over 5 feet 5 inches in height could be accepted as a special recruit for the Royal Army Medical Corps, and, if he was a good and desirable man in every other way, would probably be accepted. A man of 5 feet 6 inches is not over standard for the Militia Medical Staff Corps, and would be accepted if found fit. I am not aware of the standards required for the St. John Ambulance Brigade.
Army Training—Responsibility Of Adjutant General
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the Adjutant General, who by Orders in Council of 29th November, 1895, and 7th March, 1899, has been charged with the military education and training of the officers, warrant officers, non-commissioned officers, and men of the Regular and Reserve Forces and Militia of the United Kingdom, is responsible for the due performance of those duties direct to the Secretary of State, and whether general and other officers are forbidden to practise any system of training which has not received the sanction of the War Office.
The Adjutant General is charged with the military training of all ranks subject to the supervision of the Commander-in-Chief, who signs all orders regulating exercises. It is essential that one system of training should be in force throughout the Army. If, therefore, general or other officers consider that any change from the existing system is desirable, it is their duty to submit it for the consideration of the Commander-in-Chief, and not to put it into practice until it has received his sanction.
Then am I right in understanding that the responsibility of the Adjutant-General is through the Commander-in-Chief, and not direct from the Secretary for War?
My hon. and gallant friend is fond of propounding questions in a debateable manner. The responsibility of the Adjutant-Ceneral in the performance of his duties is, no doubt, direct to the Secretary of State, but he acts under the supervision of the Commander-in-Chief in such military questions, and, of course, carries out the directions of the Commander-in-Chief.
May I ask whether, as a matter of fact, such a plan for the training of officers as has been indicated was submitted by the Adjutant-General to the Secretary of State for War; and whether that plan has been neglected both by the right hon. Gentleman and his predecessor?
No, Sir; I am not aware of anything of the kind. Any plan submitted by the Adjutant-General through the Commander-in-Chief would be carefully considered.
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, in the event of the proceedings of courts-martial or courts of inquiry on surrenders in South Africa, showing those surrenders to have resulted from defective or ineffectual training of officers and men despatched from the United Kingdom, steps will be taken to fully judge the system of training, and to hold those who have laid it down as sharing equally with the officers and men who have had to put it in practice the responsibility for those surrenders.
It would be very difficult to draw any conclusions such as the hon. and gallant Member suggests from the courts-martial or courts of inquiry which have reported. The question of the training of the troops is being carefully considered by the Commander-in-Chief.
Deceased Soldiers' Savings— Sergeant-Major Garner
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether a man's regimental savings bank account is shown in his non-effective account, and has this item been rendered by the battery in the case of Sergeant-Major Garner; and whether the savings bank account of the battery has been submitted for audit since 1899. At the same time, may I ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether the remainder of Sergeant-Major Garner's estate has been issued, as stated by the Financial Secretary; and, if so, has the non-effective account also been received, and on what date was the remainder of the estate issued; and, considering that eighteen months have elapsed since Sergeant-Major Garner's death, in justice to his widow, can inquiries be made by telegraph at the battery which is in standing camp at Natal.
It appears that at the end of June, 1899, Sergeant-Major Garner had about £135 to his credit in his savings bank account. His non-effective account has not been received owing to the fact of his battery, which was engaged at Dundee, being unable to furnish the details. Enquiry has been made by telegram and every endeavour is being made to clear up the matter. The balance of money due to the Sergeant Major, with his war and discharge gratuities, has been provisionally issued, and although it is against all regulations I have authorised the payment of half the amount shown to be in the savings bank according to our last return.
Irish Linen Khaki
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that at a recent meeting of the linen merchants of Belfast disappointment was expressed because the Government would not take linen khaki for the making of soldiers' clothing, and that linen is only one farthing per yard more than cotton khaki, although linen wears three times as long as cotton; and whether he will see that Irish linen gets the preference from this time forward for making soldiers' uniforms.
May I ask the Government to take this matter into their most favourable consideration, as it is one which excites great interest in Belfast?
The attention of the Secretary of State has been drawn to this matter. The preference for cotton over linen khaki is due not only to the fact that the latter is more expensive, but also colder and less absorbent than the former. In view of the recent adoption of woollen drab serge for the service dress of the Army, it is very improbable that any large quantity of either cotton or linen khaki will be required hereafter by the War Department.
Is it a fact that if Irish linen were used in the manufacture of soldiers' uniforms the constituents of the First Lord of the Treasury at Manchester would suffer?
Order, order!
Admiralty Contracts At Barrow-In-Furness
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether portions of the work for the furnishing and upholstering of the four ships building at Barrow-in-Furness for the Government has been sub-let, whether any of the work executed by some of these sub-contractors is of an unsatisfactory character, whether he is aware that the work have been carried out by boys and under-paid labour, and whether he will appoint an inspector to supervise and pass the work before paying for it; and whether subcontracting is allowed by Government Departments in view of the Fair Wages Resolution of the House of Commons.
The work of furnishing on these ships has not been sub-let. The upholstering work, included in the contract, comprises only a few cushions and curtains, and is sub-let to a local firm who have previously done similar work for His Majesty's ships. The answer to the second and third questions is in the negative. All such work is invariably supervised and passed by Admiralty overseers before it is paid for. Subcontracting is allowed subject to Admiralty approval, and on condition that the responsibility of carrying out the work in a satisfactory manner, and that the wages paid shall be those generally accepted as current in each trade for competent workmen, remains with the principal contractor.
Royal Visit To The Colonies— Press Accommodation
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is yet in a position to say what arrangements are made for the accommodation of representatives of the press on the ships of war that will accompany the Royal Mission to Australia, and to state what news agencies or newspapers will be allowed to send representatives.
The First Lord much regrets that it was not possible to find accommodation for all applicants; but careful inquiry showed that five berths at the utmost could be made available on the two cruisers. These places have accordingly been apportioned among the applicants. A decision could not be postponed, as the cruisers sail on Thursday next.
Will you kindly say what agencies or papers are to get places?
Perhaps the lion. Gentleman will allow me to answer that question on the Supplementary Navy Estimate. I may, however, say that combinations have been arranged.
India—Proposed New Province
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether the sanction of His Majesty's Government has been given to a scheme by which it is proposed to join four or five provinces peopled with Pathan tribes, all outside the Indian border, under the same military, political, and revenue administration as now obtains in four of our own British districts within the borders of India; and will the full Papers relating to this scheme be laid before Parliament at an early date.
The Papers relating to this subject will be in the hands of Members in a few days, and they will show that the assumptions in the first question of the hon. Gentleman are erroneous.
China—Russia And Manchuria
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Governments of Great Britain, Germany, and Japan have protested against the ratification by the Chinese Government of the agreement lately concluded between the representatives of Russia and China in Manchuria; whether that agreement, if carried out, would give Russia control of Manchuria to the exclusion of all other nations, would prevent the subjects of any other Power from obtaining concessions in Manchuria, and would place the trade and customs there under Russian control.
The question to which the hon. Member refers is engaging the earnest attention of His Majesty's Government, and has been the subject of diplomatic communications between the Powers. In the opinion of His Majesty's Government, any statement or discussion on the subject at the present moment would be inexpedient.
"Kowshing" Arbitration
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he can give to the House any information as to the British steamer "Kowshing," sunk by the Japanese in their war with China; whether the Chinese offered to refer the case to arbitration; whether arbitration was accepted, and, if so, whether anything came of it before the commencement of the present hostilities; and whether he can give the House any assurance that the case will not be lost sight of, but that it will be included in the Bill of Indemnity to be paid at the end of the present war by the Chinese Government to this country.
The Chinese Government accepted the offer of Her Majesty's Government to refer the case to arbitration, and the terms of reference to the arbitrator were under discussion when the disturbances broke out in China. In the actual circumstances further delay is inevitable, but the case will certainly not be lost sight of. As it is to be decided by arbitration it is clear that there can be no question of payment until the arbitrator has given a decision.
Arabi Pasha
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Arabi Pasha is to be allowed to return to Egypt from Ceylon.
No petition has recently been received from Arabi Pasha for leave to return to Egypt. If he were to make such a request the matter would be referred to the Egyptian Government for consideration.
Metropolitan Stipendiaries
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will explain why he does not act upon the recommendation of the Report of the Departmental Committee of his predecessor in office and appoint an additional magistrate for the North London and South Western Police Courts; and whether he is aware that, as a consequence of there being only one magistrate appointed to these police courts instead of two, as in all other Metropolitan police courts, justice is frequently delayed by reason of the frequent demands that are made, consequent on the necessity of the same case having to be heard by a magistrate who can only attend the court occasionally.
This is a question which has been repeatedly under the consideration of my predecessors and of the Treasury. It has not hitherto been considered that the total number of days on which Metropolitan magistrates sit during the year are sufficient to justify the imposing on Imperial funds the cost of two additional magistrates. I am aware that considerable inconvenience arises of the nature referred to in the question. Provision has been made to lessen this as much as possible by an arrangement that the magistrates attached to other courts, who sit in turn at the two courts in question, shall, as far as possible, do so in consecutive weeks, and on the same day in these weeks.
Thames Police—Christmas Boxes
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the recent reduction of ten third-class inspectors of the Thames Division of the Metropolitan Police to the rank of constables for a breach of the regulations will affect the pensions of the men, some of whom have been in the service for nearly a quarter of a century; and whether, in view of the severity of the punishment, ho will order a fresh inquiry, with a view to a mitigation of the punishment.
The amount of these men's pensions will, of course, be contingent on the amount of their salary immediately previous to their retire- ment. Having made inquiry into the matter I see no reason at all for a reconsideration of the decision in their case.
What was the actually committed by these men?
Certain constables, on one pretence or another, wont along the river collecting money from various wharfingers. They were punished for it, and in the course of the inquiry it transpired that ten third-class inspectors had connived at the action and shared the spoils. They confessed to it. They were punished, and, I think, not too severely.
Metropolitan Police Pay
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that the recent increase in allowances to the men of the Metropolitan and other borough police forces is causing dissatisfaction among the men of county police forces serving in many cases actually on the other side of the street, and who, although they have as great expenses and live under practically the same conditions, are yet debarred from the advances that have been made; and further, whether he will recommend county authorities to grant these special allowances to men serving in populous urban areas under the same conditions which prompted an advance to the Metropolitan and borough forces.
The existence of the dissatisfaction indicated has not come to my knowledge. But I may say at once that the matter is not one in which I could take the action suggested.
Underground Railways In London
I beg to ask the President of the Hoard of Trade whether, in case His Majesty's Government propose the appointment of a Committee to consider, in conjunction with a Committee of the other House, the best lines of route for underground railways in London, it will be proposed that all Bills for underground railways introduced in the present session shall be referred to such a Committee and whether, in the case of the appointment of such a Committee, His Majesty's Government will consider the desirability of letting the reference to it be sufficiently wide to allow the Committee to report upon the whole question of so arranging and connecting underground lines as to enable such lines to afford the maximum of relief to surface traffic, and to secure rapid, transit from the central parts of London to the suburbs.
Yes, Sir, I hope that the reference to the Committee will be so framed as to ensure that all the Bills of this session dealing with underground railways in London shall be laid before it, and also that the Committee shall be invited to report whether the lines of route proposed are best calculated to afford facilities for present and probable future traffic, and, if not, what modifications of those lines of route are desirable.
Skating Fatality On Compensation Dam, Greenock
I beg to ask the Lord Advocate if he is aware that a young man named John Kennedy was drowned on the 16th instant while skating on the reservoir known as Compensation Dam, Greenock; that the said reservoir is the property of the Water Trust of Greenock, but is within the police jurisdiction of the authorities of the county of Renfrew; that no police were present; that no life-saving apparatus was available; that those present who gallantly endeavoured to save the young man's life stated that if such apparatus had been available his life could have been saved; and that the said reservoir is largely used in time of frost by the inhabitants of Greenock and district; and if he will give such instructions as may probably prevent a recurrence of similar accidents.
As regards the lamentable accident referred to by the hon. Member, I understand, from a report which I have received from the Chief Constable, that two life-belts are kept in a sluice-house adjoining the dam, provided by the Water Trust officials, and there also is a rope. All the employees of the Water Trust have a key to this sluice-house, as also the constable of the district. Although the constable had been in the neighbourhood of the dam on the two previous days, he was unfortunately not there on the day of the accident, having been detailed for special duty at a funeral at Wemyss Bay. As a heavy thaw had set in, he thought no one could possibly venture on the ice, and therefore did not apply for a constable to take his place. It would, as the hon. Member can understand, be impossible for the police to watch all the many reservoirs and dams within their jurisdiction and be responsible for warning persons against their own foolhardiness—a duty which is not imposed on them by any Statute. But the chief constable proposes to communicate with the engineer of the Water Trust of Greenock, to the effect that if he will at any time notify to the county police that in his opinion there is danger of accidents to venturesome people at the reservoirs within their jurisdiction, a police constable will be detailed to warn them of their danger.
Prevention Of Steam Traavltng Off Scotland
I beg to ask the Lord Advocate if he can state how many gunboats have been placed each year for the last five years at the disposal of the Scotch Fishery authorities by the Admiralty, with the view of preventing steam trawling on the Scotch coast in the prescribed waters.
I am informed by the Fishery Board that during the last five years H.M.S. "Jackal" or a substitute has been at their disposal for fishery superintendence under the Herring Fisheries (Scotland) Acts. The Board have also received occasional assistance from an Admiralty cruiser for the investigation of certain specific complaints of illegal trawling. It must be borne in mind, however, that the help given by the Admiralty is rendered in connection with the duties imposed upon them by the Sea Fisheries Act, 1883, and that these duties do not wholly refer to waters in which trawling is prohibited.
Did not the right hon. Gentleman last year state distinctly that two or three gunboats had been placed permanently at the disposal of the Fisheries Board?†
I remember giving an exact account of what had been done, and if the hon. Member refers to Hansard he will see what I said, no doubt.
In view of the fact that so much damage is done in Ireland, where so little of the gigantic expenditure on the Navy takes place, will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to impress on the Admiralty the desirability of sending a gunboat for the protection of the Irish fisheries?
[No answer was given.]
Have not the Admiralty now a gunboat on loan to the Scottish Fishery Board?
I must ask for notice.
Postal Arrangements In Northumberland
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he has received any communication from the inhabitants of New York and Murton, in the township of Murton, Northumberland, praying for further postal facilities; if so, can he state now whether he is able to make any improvement in this respect.
A communication was received on the 20th ultimo from the chairman of a meeting of the inhabitants of the township. The necessary inquiries are not yet completed, but as soon as a decision has been arrived at it will be communicated to the hon. Member.
Telegraph Offices In Rural Parishes
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing
the Postmaster General, whether, under the provisions of the Post Office Acts, and particularly of the Post Office Guarantee Act, 1898, any parish is entitled to require the establishment within its limits of a telegraph office, if the parish council considers that it would be for the benefit of the parish to have such an office, and is prepared to furnish the guarantee required by those Acts.† Refer to The Parliamentary Debates [Fourth Series], Vol. lxxxv., page 871.
The Post Office Guarantee Acts do not confer on a parish council the right to require the establishment of a telegraph office in the parish. They merely empower the, council to pay to the Postmaster General any loss he may sustain by reason of the establishment of such office. It is left to the Postmaster General to decide whether the office shall lie established, and I need hardly say that ho is always ready to give careful consideration to any case that may be brought before him.
South Armagh Magistracy
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the number of Roman Catholics, and the number of non-Roman Catholics, in the population of the Parliamentary Division of South Armagh, and their respective representation on the Bench.
There is no official information on the religious distribution of the population, or magistracy, by Parliamentary divisions, but, according to the census returns of 189] there were at that date in the County Armagh 05,900 Roman Catholics and 77,028 Protestants of various denominations. The number of justices of the peace in the county, exclusive of resident magistrates and chairmen of councils, is 108, of whom twenty-three are Roman Catholics and 145 are Protestants.
Will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to get rid of that disproportion?
I have answered that question more than once.
Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Act—Purchases And Loans
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether ho can state how many houses in Ireland have been acquired by workmen under the provisions of the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Act.
The Local Government Board are unable to say how many purchases have been completed in Ireland under the provisions of this Act. As already stated by me, the Board has sanctioned one loan to enable the Dublin Corporation to make advances for the purchase of five dwellings.
Irish Land—Redemption Of Crown And Quit Rents
I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if ho can state how much money has been paid out of Irish estates in respect of the redemption of Crown and quit rents since the passing of the Land Purchase (Ireland) Acts.
Since the passing of the Land Law (Ireland) Act, 1881, up to 31st March, 1900, the money paid out of Irish estates in respect of the redemption of Crown and quit rents was £156,441.
Lord Clanricarde's Estates
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether Lord Clanricarde's agent refused recently two years rent, offered by the widow M'Doangh, in order to be allowed to enter into possession of her house and farm, in the parish of Woodford, county Galway; whether he is aware that the same house and farm was handed over since to a man named Lyons without any fine or compensation, who was unable to hold his own farm, the interest of which ho sold about six months ago; and whether he will state the number and the cost of the extra police drafted into the district for the purpose of protecting Lyons.
I have no official information as to the accuracy of the statements in the first and second paragraphs, though I am informed that it is true that the holding in question has been taken by a man named Lyons. No extra police have been drafted into the district for the purpose of protecting Lyons, and no extra cost has, therefore, been incurred in his protection.
Will the right lion, gentleman say how many police are actually needed for the protection of this man?
No extra police have been drafted into the district for the purpose, but I cannot say how many of the ordinary force there are engaged on the duty.
Cannot the right hon. gentleman obtain the information asked for in the first paragraph?
I cannot ask what terms have been offered.
Dairy Instruction In Munster
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been directed to the proceedings at the last meeting of the Minister Dairy and Agricultural Institute at Cork on the 26th ultimo; and, in view of the fact that the governors of that institute communicated with the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction some months ago asking for a definite decision as to the establishment of an agricultural school in connection with that institute and the continuation of the system of itinerant dairy instructresses for the province of Munster, whether he can state what is the cause of the delay in sending a definite reply to the governors of the institute; and, seeing that the Cork County Council voted a grant of £1,000 a year in February 1900 in aid of the establishment of an agricultural school, can he say what steps the Department is going to take in this matter, and how soon?
The hon. Member has been good enough to send me a newspaper report of the meeting referred to in the question. I am advised that the governors of the Munster Institute have been fully informed of the views of the Department of Agriculture, which were to the effect that the Department would recommend no change in the position of the Munster Institute until all the county councils of the province had had time to consider the question adequately, pending which consideration the work of the institute would continue as heretofore. It is true the county council of Cork passed a vote of £1,000 for the purposes of the Munster Dairy School, but the schemes of the Cork County Council under the Agriculture and Technical Instruction Act are as yet in a very immature state, and the other county councils of Minister are equally interested in the question involved. It would be most undesirable for the Department, by precipitate action, to take any steps which might adversely influence the character of agricultural education in the country generally.
Cannot the right hon. gentleman, out of last year's grant, now lying idle, do something to help this matter forward?
I would do nothing against the advice of the Department of Agriculture for Ireland.
Wexford County Council's Appeals
:I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he will grant the two Returns entitled Wexford County v. Local Government Board and Local Government (Ireland) Officials standing on to-day's Paper.
†The following are the Returns referred to in the question—Wexford County v. Local Government Board.—Return giving the Report of the Judgment delivered in the Irish Court of Appeal on Monday, 25th February last, together with the Pleadings and Affidavits on both sides, in the ease of the County Wexford County Council against the Local Government Board for Ireland.
Local Government (Ireland) Officials—Return giving the cases in which the Salaries of County Council, District Council, Urban Council, and Union Officials have been increased or attempted to be increased by the Local Government Board for Ireland since the pissing of the Local Government (Ireland) Act, together with the amount of the former Salary and of the increased Salary in each case, and the total addition to Irish Local Taxation consequent upon these increases; and giving also Copies of the protests of the local bodies concerned against these increases or attempted increases.
At the same time may I ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been directed to the comments of the Judges of the Court of Appeal in Ireland on the letter of the 30th April, 1 900, addressed by the Irish Local Government Board to the County Council of Wexford; and whether he will lay upon the Table of the House the letter referred to and the affidavits of Sir Henry Robinson, Vice-President of the Local Government Board, in reply to the case made by the Wexford Council against the sealed orders of the Board which have been quashed by the Court of Appeal.
In respect of the first of these Returns there is no objection to giving the report of the judgment of the Court of Appeal, with the affidavits attached. I do not quite gather what is meant by the pleadings. It would be impossible to give, officially, reports of speeches made by counsel. There is no objection to giving the information asked for in the second Return, excepting only the protests of local bodies. There are, in all probability, protests upon minutes which have not been communicated to the Local Government Board in the form of resolutions. I should be unwilling, by publishing those received, to expose the Board to the charge of having withheld any protests. On the other hand the task of obtaining access to, and of searching all the records of all the bodies concerned over so long a period, would involve a greater labour than I feel could fairly be thrown on a heavily worked Department. The form of this Return is now under consideration in connection with a somewhat similar notice recently moved for by the hon. Member for North Donegal, and I will communicate with the hon. Baronet on the subject in the course of a couple of days.
The right hon. Gentleman speaks of the great labour which would be thrown on the Department in searching the records for protests. Could he not issue a three line, circular to each council, asking if any such protest has been made, and thus get the information?
I have no objection to taking any reasonable steps, but there might be some difficulty in following this plan. We might be charged with omitting some.
That would not be your fault.
Have the Local Government Board any objection to giving county councils a copy of the judgment?
No; perhaps the best plan would be to print it as a Parliamentary Paper.
Gorey Licensing Case
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if his attention has been called to the case of the Crown v. Boyan, in which the Gorey bench of magistrates refused to convict the proprietress of the Railway Hotel, Gorey, of a breach of the licensing law for allowing money to be played for on her billiard tabic; whether this case has been returned from the King's Bench to the justices of Gorey for rehearing with a view to a conviction, and with what remit; and if he will instruct the police in Ireland to prevent the playing for money on billiard tables in hotels in Ireland in future.
The answer to the first paragraph of the question is in the affirmative. The case has been returned to the justices, who have convicted the proprietress of the hotel, fining her one penny and costs, with a direction in conformity with the suggestion of the Queen's Bench Division that the conviction should not be endorsed on the licence. The police are aware of their duty in such matters. No special directions are necessary.
Clare County Council—Direct Labour
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the proceedings against three Clare county councillors, Messrs. Halpin, Lynch, and M'Inerney, in reference to a matter arising out of the direct labour question, and whether, as the Irish Government has drafted a Provisional Order dealing with that question, he will take steps to have the defendants released from the order to enter into sureties to be of good behaviour.
The answer to the first paragraph is in the affirmative and to the second in the negative. The Provisional Order can have no bearing on the prosecution to which the hon. Member refers.
Sureties Oe The Peace—Halin V Rice
I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland if his attention has been drawn to the decision of the judge of the King's Bench in Ireland in the case of Halpin v. Rice, and to the observation of the Lord Chief Justice as to the difference in the law affecting persons in England and Ireland on application before the magistrates for sureties to keep the peace and be of good behaviour, and if, in view of the opinion of the judge that persons in Ireland called upon to give sureties to be of good behaviour have a grievance in being precluded from giving evidence on their behalf, he will introduce a Bill assimilating the law on the subject in both countries.
At the same time may I ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, in reference to the judgment in the King's Bench on the 2Gth ult. in the case of Deputy-Inspector H. Rice, Royal Irish Constabulary, v. Halpin, and in connection with his promise to bring in legislation with a view to carry into effect the recommendation of the learned judges, whether he will undertake to introduce a Bill before Easter.
In answer to the question of the hon. Member for East Donegal, I must refer the hon. Member to my reply to a similar question put to me on Friday last, when I stated that if the Members for Ireland would be good enough to give me an assurance that they would facilitate the assimilation of the law in the two countries in this respect I would forthwith introduce a short Bill for the purpose. The hon. Member for North Cork asks me if I will introduce the Bill before Easter. I can only repeat that, provided I receive the assurance I have asked for, the Bill will at once be introduced.
How can we give the assurance until we see the Bill?
I have said that the Bill will assimilate the law in the two countries.
Fair Rent Applications In County Kildare
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state how many fair rent applications are pending in the union of Naas, county Kildare; when will they be listed for hearing; what was the date of the last sittings of the sub-commissioners there; and when the next sittings may be expected to take place.
The hearing of a list containing eighteen fair-rent applications from the Naas Union will be commenced at Naas on the 19th inst. The list includes all applications received from the union save two. A sub-commission last sat at Naas in January, 1900.
The Recent "Day Ok General Mourning"—Police And Irish Shopkeepers
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Government intend to compensate the traders of Roundwood and Lara for the loss they sustained in their business in consequence of the police order to keep their shops closed on Saturday, 2nd February; if not, what remedy have the traders for the injury done to their business by the illegal action of the police.
The reply to this question is in the negative. I am unable to advise the hon. Member upon the point raised at the conclusion of the question.
Then am I to understand that the people who have suffered by the illegal action of the police have no remedy?
The hon. Member must understand that I cannot advise whether they have a remedy or what it is
If they institute legal proceedings against the inspector will the right hon. Gentleman take care that—
Order, order! The right hon. Gentleman has already said he cannot advise a remedy.
Birr And Portumna Railway
On behalf of my hon. friend the Member for East Galway I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether, as the International Railway Corporation, Limited, London, have agreed to comply with conditions laid down by the Irish Office in reference to the restoration and reopening of the Birr and Portumna line of railway, he will state what is the cause of any further delay.
The proposals of the International Railway Corporation were brought by the Irish Government before the Treasury, who did not sec their way to hold out any expectation that they will consent to a grant of £12,000 in aid of the reconstruction of the line.
Irish National Teachers' Salaries
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state when the Code of Instruction for Irish National Schools, an extract from which was presented to this House last July, will be ready, and what is the special scale of salaries for each grade which this extract states is arranged.
The Commissioners of National Education cannot, at present, fix a date for the issue of the Code, as they are still in correspondence with the Treasury. It will, however, be issued without avoidable delay, and will include the special scale of salaries.
Land Law Administration In East Tyrone
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieu- tenant of Ireland if he can state whether the Agent of the Commissioners of Education has taken, or is instructed to take, proceedings to evict a tenant named Joseph Magennis, who resides in Derry-trisk, near Coalisland, county Tyrone, for a techuical breach of one of the provisions of the Land Act, which took place in ignorance of the law two years ago; and what steps, if any, it is proposed to take in this matter.
In this case I am informed that the tenant committed a breach of one of the statutory conditions of his tenancy by opening a house for the sale of intoxicating liquors without the consent of the Commissioners. The Commissioners, in consequence, have directed proceedings to be taken for the determination of the tenancy. They are willing to waive proceedings if the tenant surrenders his licence as required by them.
Irish Pre-Union Statutes
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether effect will be given to the suggestion of the Deputy Keeper of Public Records in Ireland in the last Report, and the publication of the original statutes of the Irish Parliament in Norman French be carried out.
I am informed that the Treasury are in communication with the Statute Law Revision Committee on this subject. In the meantime the actual work of editing and preparing the statutes for press is being proceeded with.
Westmeath Magistracy
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state how many Roman Catholics and how many Protestants there are in the county of Westmeath; how many Roman Catholic magistrates and how many Protestant magistrates there are in that county; and how many Roman Catholics and how many Protestant grand jurors have been summoned by the present High Sheriff of that county to serve as grand jurors at the spring assizes.
The number of Roman Catholics and Protestants of various denominations in the county of Westmeath at the time of the Census of 1891 was 59,904 and 5,123, respectively. The number of justices of the peace in the county, exclusive of resident magistrates and chairmen of councils, is 146, of whom ninety-six are Protestants, forty-eight Roman Catholics, and there are two whose religions are unknown. There are no official statistics of the religious denominations of gentlemen summoned by the High Sheriff to act as grand jurors.
Shropshire Light Infantry— Outrages In Tipperary
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been directed to the series of outrages in the shape of house wrecking, robberies, and burglaries recently committed in Tipperary by soldiers of the Shropshire Light Infantry stationed there; whether any action was taken by the officer in command to prevent such conduct; and whether the persons suffering loss will be compensated by the Army Department.
Two burglaries and a malicious injury to property were committed last month by soldiers belonging to this battalion in Tipperary. In each case the accused was arrested and committed for trial at assizes. Neither the officer in command nor the police anticipated such conduct, and no special steps were taken, therefore, to prevent it. The inquiry in the last paragraph should be addressed to my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for War.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say why the commanding officer took no steps to stop this series of outrages?
One can hardly call two burglaries a series.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the regiment has been transferred to Templemore, and that on arrival there the men smashed windows?
Order, order! That does not arise out of the question.
Are these men acting under the proclamation of Lord Roberts?
Protection Of Irish Fisheries
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if lie can state how many gunboats have been placed by the Admiralty at the disposal of the Inspectors of Irish Fisheries each year for the last five years, with the view of preventing steam trawling in the prescribed waters oft' the Irish coasts.
The number of occasions on which gunboats have been employed for the purpose stated during the past five years was—in 1896, twice; in 1897, twice; in 1898, once; and in 1899, three times. Last year no gunboat was employed. I would refer the lion. Member to my reply on the 21st February† to the question of the hon. Member for Galway as to the special steps now being taken by the Department of Agriculture with a view to the suppression of illegal trawling within the prescribed limits off the Irish coast.
Prosecution Of The Tuam News Editor
I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether he is aware that Mr. John M'Philpin, editor and proprietor of the Tuam News, Tuam, county Galway, has been summoned by the Crown to give evidence in respect to resolutions and newspaper reports published in his paper, and alleged to have been furnished to him by persons awaiting their trial at Athenry on 14th March next; and whether, in view of the announcement made recently in respect to similar summonses issued in the city of Waterford, he will direct the immediate withdrawal of the summons against this newspaper editor.
The cases of Mr. Redmond and Mr. M'Philpin are not identical, as the latter has only been summoned to produce reports sent to him for publication. While I cannot admit that he has any special privilege exempting him from the liability to produce these docu-
ments, I will undertake that, unless it should be absolutely necessary in the interest of justice to examine him, lie will not be produced as a witness.† See preceding volume of Debates, page 698.
Horse-Breeding In Queen's County
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state how many premiumed stallions (thoroughbred and agricultural) have been allotted to Queen's County under the Royal Dublin Society's scheme; and whether any grant of public money goes in aid of this scheme; and, if so, what amount.
As already stated by me, one-half of the annual grant of £5,000, paid to the Royal Dublin Society under the Probate Duties Act of 1888, is applied in aid of the Society's scheme for thoroughbred stallions. Of the twenty-five premiums paid under this portion of the scheme, one thoroughbred stallion has been allocated to Queen's County. The three premiums of £50 for agricultural stallions are not paid out of public funds, but out of the private funds of the Society.
Labourers' Dwellings In Mountmellick
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he has received a resolution passed by the Town Commissioners of Mountmellick in favour of further legislation enabling corporate bodies to provide suitable house accommodation for the labouring classes at reasonable rents, and suggesting that a yearly grant, similar to that made under the Land Purchase Acts of 1891–6 in aid of the erection of labourers' cottages in Ireland, should be made to towns commissioners and urban councils in order to lighten the burthen of the rates and facilitate the removal of hovels; and whether the Government propose dealing with this question during the present session of Parliament.
I have seen the resolution referred to in the question. It is not proposed to introduce legislation on the subject during the present session.
Fermanagh Rent Appeals
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if lie will state the number of appeals from the Sub-Commission now pending for rehearing by the Chief Commission in the county of Fermanagh; and whether he is aware that some of these appeals have been lodged over four years, and will he state how many cases were reheard by the Chief Commission at their last sitting at Enniskillen, and when the Chief Commission will next sit in Fermanagh.
There are 314 cases in county Fermanagh in which appeals are pending for upwards of two years, but there is no case unlisted in which the notice of appeal was lodged prior to June, 1898. One hundred and fifty-one cases were listed for the last sitting of the Commissioners at Enniskillen; of these, only sixty-four cases went to an actual hearing in court, the remainder being either withdrawn or settled by the parties. The date of the next sitting of the Land Commission at Enniskillen for the hearing of appeals has not yet been arranged.
Wicklow Magistracy
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of the fact that the Roman Catholics of county Wicklow are three-fourths of the population, and that the Roman Catholic magistrates are twenty-eight and the Protestant magistrates 135 in the county, he will take steps, either by suggestion to the Lord Lieutenant of the county Wicklow, or otherwise, to reduce the preponderance of Protestant over Roman Catholic, magistrates.
I am afraid I can only repeat what I have already stated, that recommendations for appointments to the Commission of the Peace are made by the Lieutenant of the county to the Lord Chancellor, and that it is not within the province of the Executive to intervene in the matter, as suggested.
Is it as necessary to pack the magisterial bench as to pack the jury box?
Order, order!
Fair Rent Applications
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been I directed to the practice of the Land Commission of postponing indefinitely the hearing of fair rent applications in cases where negotiations for sale are pending, and whether he will take steps to secure a more speedy hearing of such cases in future.
The Commissioners inform me that the hearing of fair rent applications is only postponed in cases of the kind mentioned upon the application, and with the consent of both landlord and tenant, and that either party can apply at any time to have the fair rent applications proceeded with.
Belturret Post Office
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether his attention has been called to the unsuitability of the present post office in Belturbet, both in its position and structural arrangements; and is it the intention of the Department to provide a proper building or build a new post office in Belturbet.
The present post office at Belturbet, to which the business was moved after the late fire, is a, temporary one, and inquiries are being made as to the best means of obtaining better accommodation. A scheme for buying a site and building specially is under consideration.
County Tyrone Postal Arrangements
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, if lie is aware that the residents of the district in county Tyrone, known as Stewartstown to Aughinderg, which comprises eleven townlands, have petitioned the authorities for a daily delivery of letters, and can he state whether the prayer of that petition will be granted.
Yes, Sir, the residents applied for a more frequent delivery of letters. Some little time ago the frequency of the service was increased from three to four days a week, Mid the Postmaster General has now sanctioned a delivery every weekday. The improved service will be commenced as soon as possible.
Irish Rating Valuations
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can explain why in England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales the local authorities are the rating authorities, but the Irish Valuation Commissioner and officials are Government employees; and whether measures will be taken to have the law assimilated for the three kingdoms by amending the Local Government (Ireland) Act.
The difference of practice is the result of a difference in the law in the two cases. I am not prepared to propose any change in the Irish Act in this respect.
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether, seeing that when the Irish Valuation Commissioner issues his valuation it becomes law subject to appeal, he can state whether the new valuation of the county boroughs of Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Limerick, and Waterford will increase local and Imperial taxation; and whether, in view of the Financial Relations Report, care will be taken that the valuation shall be lowered, in order that the Imperial taxation of those county boroughs may be reduced, as the local rates can be met by increased poundage.
I cannot say what will be the result of new valuations if such are applied for in the towns named. But there is no power under the Valuation Acts to lower the valuation as suggested.
Does the valuation occur if the local authorities object?
No valuation can take place unless the local authorities ask for it.
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, in view of the fact that rating is based on rental, and that rentals include the annual value of the land upon which premises are built whether it has been considered, or will be considered, by the Commissioner of Valuations in Ireland that the payment of taxation by the land-owning class has been transferred to the occupiers, as that which was formerly assessed as land is now assessed under the description of buildings being included in the rent of houses.
I am not quite certain that I understand the hon. Member's question; but I can assure him that, generally speaking, land in county boroughs is valued on its letting value, like other rateable property, and that wherever the amount of land attached to a building is more than a mere curtilage, a separate valuation of it will be made.
Irish Lights—Maiden Rock, Kenmare Bay
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he will state who is responsible for the system of buoying in force on the Irish seaboard, and whether he will inquire as to the buoy at present marking a rock known as the Maiden Rock in Kenmare Bay, which is only an ordinary buoy, with a view to having it replaced by a bell buoy, so that vessels navigating those waters at night may have a means of knowing the situation of this rock.
Except where there are local lighthouse authorities, the superintendence and management of all lighthouses, buoys, and beacons throughout Ireland and the adjacent seas and islands are vested in the Commissioners of Irish Lights. The Commissioners inform me that no application has been received by them for a bell buoy at Maiden Rock, Kenmare, in place of the first class buoy by which the rock is at present marked.
Is it necessary that an application should be made?
I think it very desirable.
Kinsale Water Supply
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that a distinct understanding was arrived at between the Kinsale Urban District Council and the War Office, with the approval of the Local Government Board, by which it was arranged that the War Office would advance the money required for providing a supplemental water supply in excess of the sum reached by the borrowing powers of the council and contract to take a water supply for the use of the military, recouping themselves for their outlay by an annual sinking fund covering principle and interest, to be taken credit for by them out of the amount to be annually paid for the water supply. Will he explain on what grounds, after the council had been put to an expense of about £200, the military authorities informed them that they had changed their mind and could not see their way to carry out the arrangement; and, if, under these circumstances, the matter will be re-considered with the object of enabling the district council to carry out the proposed work.
No, Sir. No such understanding was arrived at with the council. The council made a proposal to supply water to the barracks at Kinsale which would have involved an estimated advance of £5,000 from War Department Funds. It was not considered desirable to agree to it, and no arrangement whatever was made with the council.
Defence Of Gibraltar
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether His Majesty's Government will open negotiations with the Spanish Government for the cession of Tarifa and the territory adjoining the western shore of Gibraltar Bay before expending any more public money on the harbour works at Gibraltar.
His Majesty's Government have no intention of opening negotiations of the kind proposed.
Anglo-Portuguese Treaty—M Deloasse's Speech
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether his attention has been called to a speech in the French Senate by M. Delcassé, and whether in the event of hostilities there is any Anglo-Portuguese treaty which would compel the British (Government to intervene in a dispute between the French and Portuguese Governments.
His Majesty's Government have received the textual report of the speech by M. Delcassé to which reference is made. They do not think its effect is properly described in the question.
Will the Government lay on the Table of the House copies of any communications that have passed between the Government and Portugal?
They are on the Table.
The Royal Declaration Against Roman Catholicism
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he has received information from various public bodies, by resolution and otherwise, expressing their disapproval at the words which His Majesty the King had to make use of at the opening of Parliament with regard to the Roman Catholic religion; and if he will give the matter his consideration.
Yes, Sir, I have received information of the kind to which the lion. Gentleman refers. I have nothing to add to the statement I have already made in answer to a similar question on the Paper.
I should like the right hon. Gentleman to answer the last paragraph of the question.
I think it clear from the answer that I have given it consideration.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he has seen the resolution which was passed by the Canadian Parliament on the subject?
No, Sir, I have not.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he is interested in the subject?
Order, order!
Business Of The House
May I ask, with reference to the order of business today, whether it is proposed to take the Estimates in the order in which hey appear on the Paper, or to go on with the Civil Service Estimates from the point at which we left off on Friday?
No, Sir; I propose to take the Estimates in the order in which they are on the Paper.
What will be the course of business to-morrow?
As I have already stated, the business to-morrow will be the Vote on Account, and, in accordance with the practice which was introduced a year or two back, I have made such inquiries as I can from authorised sources and I find the discussion which is most desired is that on the Education Vote, which will accordingly be placed first.
In case the Speaker is not got out of the Chair on Friday, will the debate be continued on the Monday following?
I must not be understood to pledge myself a week in advance, as unforeseen necessities for taking other business may arise. But I hope the discussion on the Army Estimates will be continued on Monday.
Is it the intention of the Secretary of State for War to make his statement first on Friday?
Yes, I hope so. I think it will be the most convenient course. On Thursday the first business will be the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the Committee on the Civil List, and after that is disposed of we shall go on with the Supplementary Estimates.
Is it not a departure from the practice of the House for the Minister for War to make his statement on the question that Mr. Speaker leave the Chair?
No; I think that has been the practice for some years. The hon. Gentleman is perfectly right in saying it was not the old practice. It is a new one, and I think it has been found to be most convenient.
New Member Sworn
Sir Francis Henry Evans, K.C.M.G., for the Borough of Maidstone.
Procedure Of The House-Amendment Of Standing Orders
Standing Order No. 51 read.
I rise to move the motion which has now been for some days on the Notice Paper of the House. The effect of the amendment of our Standing Order would be to place the House in relation to Committees of Ways and Means precisely in the position in which it ordinarily stands with regard to Committee of Supply. As the House is aware, it was formerly possible for private Members to move resolutions whenever one of the Orders of the day was to the effect that "Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the purpose of going into Supply." That practice has led to certain evils which it is not necessary for me to deal with now, and it was found to be intolerable. But up to last year no similar inconvenience has been felt with regard to the power of moving Amendments on going into Committee of Ways and Means. That power has always been open to private Members, but it has seldom been taken advantage of; and, before last year, I think I am not wrong in saying that there were only live cases in the last twenty yea is in which any lion. Member thought it necessary to take advantage of this privilege. With the exception of t he occasions when the Consolidated Fund Bill or the Appropriation Bill were before the House, I do not think tint for the past twenty years hon. Members have ever thought it necessary to interpose by putting down a motion upon going into Committee of Ways and Means. But it is evident that a practice once started will continue. There are, I think, two motions down already on going into Committee of Ways and Means, and it is perfectly certain that the way having been once shown by some bold pioneer, like my hon. friend behind me, he would find plenty of imitators, and the House would no longer be sure, when the Order for Committee of Ways and Means is put down, that it might not be occupied by some quite different and possibly totally irrelevant discussion upon some other matter. It is very instructive to bear in mind what happened in a parallel case on going into Committee of Supply. It was a superstition very prevalent when I first came into the House, and it has not yet been wholly dissipated, that the power of moving resolutions on going into Committee of Supply is a modern relic of the old privilege possessed by the House of Commons of dealing with grievances before granting Supplies. I understand that very careful investigation was made into this question some years ago, and it was then discovered that the first time a resolution had been moved on going into Committee of Supply was in the year 1811, by a gentleman who seems to be the predecessor of my hon. friend in Parliamentary inventiveness, and who first saw the opening that this Standing Order left to private Members. But although that privilege was started in 1811, it was only used three times in the course of the succeeding ten years. But the practice grew, and it grew apace, until the time came when the House felt that it was impossible to deal with Supply if, whenever the business of Supply was put down, some totally different question was raised and discussed for an indefinite time. I suppose that there are Gentlemen on both sides of the House who regard this as one of a long series of tyrannical interferences with the rights of private Members, and who think the proposed amendment of our Standing Order, like all previous amendments, is really due to the inordinate greed and ambition of successive Governments, who wish to grasp unduly the time at the disposal of Parliament to carry out their own nefarious or, at all events, undesirable schemes. I think that is an extremely shallow view to take of a process which I quite admit has been going on now for a century. The real truth of the matter is that a great many causes have been at work which make it perfectly impossible for the Government to do any work at all, or to carry on the business of the country, without modifying the rules of the House. It is not the fault of the Government, or the fault of the House, but it is due to circumstances over which the House has really no control, for it is due to the increased perplexity of modern Governmental work, to the press and the telegraph; and due, perhaps, to one other cause as much as any other, and that is the fact that a very much larger number of hon. Gentlemen desire to take part in our debates than was the case one hundred, or eighty, or even sixty years ago. I am not one of those who believe that the level of Parliamentary ability in this House has in the smallest degree fallen; I rather take the other view. But assuming that what I say is true and that Parliamentary ability in this House is very much higher than it was, it is not surprising that the great mass of Members are now, being forced by their constituents, far less content than they were to allow the work of discussion in this House to be carried on by a relatively small number of selected and favoured individuals. While that process has been going on unfortunately the day still consists of only twenty-four hours, and only a certain number of Parliamentary days occur in six months, and sessions which last more than six months are rightly considered as inflicting too great pressure upon hon. Members of this House. Therefore, if you are going to treat your business in a common-sense way, and see that during this six months there shall be a fair amount of time given to those who desire to criticise matters, and a fair amount of time to those who want to discuss the Bills of the Government, and also a fair amount of time to the Government in order to carry out the work of legislation which the country requires, it is absolutely necessary that you should, from time to time, so modify your rules that that fair division of time shall not be interfered with on one side or the other It may be—and my lion, friend thinks that it is a fact—that under our existing system the time allotted to Members of the Opposition and to private Members of this House for the purpose of Parliamentary criticism is inadequate. I think that forty-three days out of one hundred days, roughly calculated, which are given up to the work of criticism, is more than sufficient. That, however, in my judgment, is a matter for entirely separate discussion from the motion which I have placed before the House, and if the time allotted is insufficient, by all means let us increase it. We might increase the twenty-three days given to Supply to twenty-five days, or make any other change which is thought desirable, but do not let us re-introduce with regard to Committee of Ways and Means a system which has been productive of nothing but confusion and evil in connection with Committee of Supply. If hon. Gentlemen will look back at the debates which took place in this House when the privileges of private Members were gradually being curtailed in the matter of resolutions going into Committee of Supply, they will find that the evil most universally complained of, not merely by the Government, but by independent Members themselves, was that this system of moving resolutions produced the utmost uncertainty as to the period at which important business would come on. If that is true—and it certainly is true—of the resolutions moved on going into Committee of Supply, still more is it true of resolutions on going into Committee of Ways and Means. I may remind the House that almost the most important occasion on which this House goes into Committee of Ways and Means is when the Chancellor of the Exchequer has to explain to the House and to the public his financial scheme for the year—which is an occasion of the profoundest interest both inside and outside of these walls, an occasion always looked forward to by every class of the community interested in it, and it would be of the utmost inconvenience should it be postponed at the wall of one single individual, which it might be, because on going into Committee of Ways and Means there is not even that limited safeguard which we now claim for a motion for the adjournment of the House. A motion for the adjournment of the House cannot be moved unless, at all events, forty Members agree to it. But a single Member, acting in concert with nobody else and representing nobody else, has it in his power to put down a subject I for discussion on the motion "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair" on going into Committee of Ways and Means, which may last nearly the whole night, and which may throw the Budget speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer into the dinner hour, and may cause in other ways the utmost confusion in our business, and inflict the utmost inconvenience both upon the House and the public. In a lesser degree the same objection applies to any other occasion in which the House is asked to go into Committee of Ways and Means. Those other occasions are really confined to the occasion on which the House goes into Committee of Ways and Means for setting up the Consolidated Fund Bill, by which we terminate our financial year, and again when the House goes into Committee of Ways and Means upon the Appropriation Bill, which winds up the financial business of the session. It is competent under our existing rules for an hon. Member to put down what motion he likes upon these occasions. But observe the great inconvenience of even this. At the present time the Consolidated, Fund Bill is the last work we do—or almost the last work we do—before the Easter rising, and if you allow private Members to bring in these motions upon the introduction of the Appropriation Bill then you will have to finish off the business of Supply a day earlier than at the present time. It is hard enough at present to get our Supply through so as to enable the Government to comply with the law, but that difficulty will necessarily be increased if you add one more day to the time given up to Supply by allowing hon. Members to put down a motion on going into Committee of Ways and Means when we introduce the Consolidated Fund Bill. A parallel argument applies to the Appropriation Bill at the end of the session. We fix our holidays to run at the time when the Appropriation Bill passes its Third Reading, and we have to arrange to get through the work of Supply before the Bill is introduced. But unless this Amendment is accepted a notice may be interposed on going into Committee of Ways and Means, which would render our financial machinery, already cumbrous in certain parts, still more cumbrous. There is another argument to put before the House in support of this motion. It is directed against the peculiar privilege which allows the House to discuss any subject which any lion. Gentleman chooses to bring forward on the motion to go into Committee of Ways and Means. But there are two occasions given, on the Consolidated Bill and the Appropriation Bill, ready to hand, within two or three days of the Ways and Means motion, upon which hon. Members have this opportunity. As everybody is aware, it is open to any hon. Gentleman on the Second and Third Readings of the Consolidated Fund Bill and the Appropriation Bill to raise questions—I will not say on any subject whatever, but any question which is relevant to any Estimate; and to add to these two occasions another occasion within three days appears to me to be adding to the difficulty and confusion of our Parliamentary proceedings, which is wholly uncalled for. I hope the House will see, therefore, that we are not interfering by this rule with the practice of the House, but are only seeking to perpetuate the practice of the House, the practice of going into Committee of Ways and Means without motion interposed, and a practice only interfered with five times during the past twenty sessions. In these circumstances I venture to say that a full case has been made out for assimilating our Standing Order relating to Ways and Means to the Standing Order which has worked with such excellent results in regard to Committee of Supply.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Standing Order No. 51 be amended, in line 4, by leaving out the words 'or of Ways and Means.'"—( Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Standing Order."
It seems tome that the right hon. Gentleman in this motion is carrying rather too far the inroads and encroachments that have been made recently upon the privileges of independent Members. The right hon. Gentleman has himself, by his own action through several years, done a great deal to cure an evil which existed in the experience of many of us, in the irregular manner in which proceedings on going into Committee of Supply were conducted, and in preventing the proper business of the House, which the House was entitled to expect to come on, from being interfered with at the caprice of an individual Member. But I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman in putting these few opportunities on going into Committee of Ways and Means at all on the same footing as Committee of Supply. After all, as the right hon. Gentleman has stated with perfect accuracy, there are in ordinary sessions only three occasions on which this opportunity occurs— the Consolidated Fund Bill, at the end of the financial year; the introduction of the Budget, and the Appropriation Bill at the end of the session. Well, I think on the face of it there could not be a more legitimate occasion for bringing forward various questions, if it were necessary to bring them forward, than on either of these occasions. The right hon. Gentleman said that the Appropriation Bill and the Consolidated Fund Bill afforded large opportunities for discussing general questions; but I am under the impression that in going into Committee on the Consolidated Fund Bill, the discussions must be confined to matters involved in the Supplementary Estimates, and which are dealt with in the Consolidated Fund Bill; but in any case I do not think that even these opportunities are at all too much to be afforded to Members of the House for bringing forward numerous miscellaneous questions, if they choose to raise them, which they may be prevented from raising when bound by the strict rules governing debate in Supply. The right hon. Gentleman says, if you wish to facilitate criticism, increase the number of days for Supply; but, after all, these discussions are confined to the particular Votes brought forward in Supply. What is wanted is that there should be these more general opportunities of raising questions which would otherwise not come immediately into the view of the House. I quite admit that this is a rule which, in practice, might be employed in an embarrassing way not only to the Government, but to the House itself. For example, a motion might be made which would have the effect of delaying the introduction of the Budget resolutions, and the prospect of such inconvenience last year led to a special arrangement being made to avoid it. In the case of the Budget resolutions I quite recognise that it may be necessary to guard against such intervention, but that can be done by a special motion made for the occasion. The Government have this weapon at their hand if they wish, and could thus avoid the great inconvenience to public business as well as to themselves; and if they adopted that method it seems to me they would not be driven to make such an inroad upon the rights of private Members. We can carry the curtailment of the rights of private Members too far. I am not one who has ever been a champion of those rights above my neighbours; I rather lean to the other view of the question. At the same time, the private Member is like Nature: you may turn him out with a fork, but he will always come back. If he does not get a legitimate way of airing his eloquence and giving his views to the House, he will find another. If you shut all the doors the result will be a multiplication of motions for the adjournment of the House, which are most inconvenient to everyone, and which are all the more objectionable be-because they are entirely inconclusive, and which, therefore, we ought not to encourage. Here are these little escape holes, these little vents for the soul of such Members as my hon. friend the Member for King's Lynn. Seeing that the privilege has not been abused hitherto, and seeing that the Government have it in their power, by special resolution on particular occasions when public inconvenience might arise, to protect themselves and the House against an abuse of the privilege, I do not sec any ne