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Supply 28Th February Report

Volume 91: debated on Monday 25 March 1901

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Remaining Resolutions [12th March] further considered:—

Civil Services Supplementary Estimates, 1900–1901

Class I

3. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for expenditure in respect of Diplomatic and Consular Buildings."

4."That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £7,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Expenses of the Post Office, and Post Office Telegraph Buildings in Great Britain, including Furniture, Fuel, and Sundry Miscellaneous services."

Third Resolution:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

said he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give some details of the Vote.

said that the Supplementary Estimates were partly occasioned by changes in Embassies abroad. Further, at Lisbon the sanitary arrangements, which were entirely wrong, had to be set right.

asked why a house which was suitable for the previous occupant was not suitable for his successor.

said that he thought that a house that had been occupied for five or six years by an Ambassador and his family required a certain amount of painting and alteration when it was vacated.

Question put, and agreed to.

Fourth Resolution:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

said that in connection with the Vote they had pressed the right hon. Gentleman very strongly to give some information as to the contracts. In July, 1900, Her Majesty's Government entered into a contract for the supply of fuel for a period of six months, and in some cases for fifteen months, when fuel was at its highest price. If the right hon. Gentleman was catering for his own household he would not enter into such a contract at that time. They had failed to obtain the name of the mine owner who supplied the fuel, and also as to whether the lowest tender was accepted. They had also asked, in Committee, for information as to household articles referred to in the Vote, and as to whether they were manufactured in England or Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman and his officials were directly responsible for having entered into a contract for fuel when coal was at its highest price. Anyone who knew the conditions of the coal market knew very well that the price could not have gone higher, and he could not see any justification or excuse for such a transaction.

said that in regard to the coal contract tenders were asked from all the firms in South Wales who supplied the kind of coal they re- quired. They accepted the two lowes tenders which were made. As to the length of the contracts, in the first instance the contract was for six months and in the other instance for three months.

said they all acknow ledged the conciliatory tone of the right hon. Gentleman, and his desire to explair as well as he could the various items in the Vote, but surely he would recognise that no private individual in conducting his business would consider it good accounting that the original Estimate should be exceeded by 50 per cent. If these Supplementary Estimates merely represented small amounts they might be explained on the ground that they were almost inevitable, but with a few I exceptions the Supplementary Estimates were for large and alarming amounts.

said that the prediction of the state of things which would follow the new rule introduced by the First Lord of the Treasury had been borne out by what had taken place. If the officials who made up original Estimates came to believe that Supplementary Estimates would pass without criticism they would become careless in the preparation of the Estimates. No good business man in the conduct of his own affairs would be so very much out of his calculation as the Government appeared to be in regard to these Estimates.

said there were coalfields in Ireland that might have been utilised. There were districts in Ireland where, he was happy to say, coal was being produced at 10s. per ton. He would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the First Commissioner of Works that the Government would be doing a good act if they encouraged the Irish to develop the coalfields of the country. That question might be worthy of the consideration of the Cabinet.

said that as a new Member he would state the opinion he had formed in regard to the manner in which the Estimates were prepared. In local boards throughout the country the Estimates when submitted gave details in order that the members of those boards might perfectly understand what was to be done with the money. He found the Estimates submitted in that House did not give the details they ought to give. When this matter was before them on a previous occasion they had what was described as an unpleasant and disgraceful scene in the House. Why was that? It was because the information asked by the Nationalist Members was not supplied. It was a most unbusinesslike method to


Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F.Gray, Ernest (West Ham)Palmer, Walter (Salisbury)
Agnew, Sir Andrew NoelGreene, Sir E. W. (B'rySEdm'ds)Penn, John
Anson, Sir William ReynellGreene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Archdale, Edward MervynGreene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.)Plummer, Walter R.
Arkwright, John StanhopeGrenfell, William HenryPretyman, Ernest George
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.Gretton, JohnPriestley, Arthur
Asher, AlexanderGreville, Hon. RonaldPryce-Jones, Lt.- Col. Edward
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir EllisHamilton, Rt Hn Lord G.(M'dx)Purvis, Robert
Atkinson, lit. Hon. JohnHardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'dRadcliffe, R. F.
Bain, Colonel James RobertHare, Thomas LeighReckitt, Harold James
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'rHay, Hon. Claude GeorgeReid, James (Greenock)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (LeedsHayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-Remnant, James Farquharson
Bathurst, Hon. Allen BenjaminHeath, James (Staffords., N.W.Rentoul, James Alexander
Beach, Rt. Hn. SirM. H. (Bristol)Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset,E.Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge
Bell, RichardHope, J F(Sheffield, BrightsideRidley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.Howard, Capt J (Kent, Faversh.Rigg, Richard
Bignold, ArthurJohnston, William (Belfast)Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Blundell, Colonel HenryJohnstone, Heywood (Sussex)Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brand, Hon. Arthur G.Joicey, Sir JamesRoe, Sir Thomas
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. JohnJones, William (Carnarvonsh.)Ropner, Colonel Robert
Brookfield, Colonel MontaguKenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bull, William JamesKenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop.Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Bullard, Sir HarryKeswick, WilliamSamuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Butcher, John GeorgeKnowles, LeesSassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Caldwell, JamesLambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Cautley, Henry StrotherLawson, John GrantSeton-Karr, Henry
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.Legge, Col. Hon. HeneageSharpe, William Edward T.
Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbysh.Leigh-Bennett, Henry CurrieShipman, Dr. John G.
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)Leveson-Gower, Frederick NS.Simeon, Sir Harrington
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)Levy, MauriceSinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.)Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.Smith, HC (Northumb Tyns'ide)
Chamberlain, J Austen(Worc'r)Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.)
Chapman, EdwardLong, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Churchill, Winston SpencerLoyd, Archie KirkmanSpencer, Rt. Hn CR(Northants)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. JesseLucas Reginald J. (PortsmouthStock, James Henry
Corbett, A. Cameron (GlasgowMacdona, John CummingTalbot. Lord E. (Chichester)
Cranborne, ViscountMacIver, David (Liverpool)Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.
Cubitt, Hon. HenryM'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)Thomas, F. Freenman-(Hastings
Dalkeith, Earl ofMajendie, James A. H.Thornton, Percy M.
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (ChathamMalcolm, IanTollemache, Henry James
Dickson, Charles ScottMaxwell, W.J.(DumfriesshireUre, Alexander
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-Melville, Beresford ValentineValentia, Viscount
Durning-Lawrence, Sir EdwinMiddlemore, J. ThrogmortonWalker, Col. William Hall
Egerton, Hon. A. de TattonMolesworth, Sir LewisWalton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Elibank, Master ofMontagu, G (Huntingdon)Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E.
Fardell, Sir T. GeorgeMore, R. Jasper (Shropshire)Wason, JohnCathcart (Orkney
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn EdwardMorgan, D. J. (WalthamstowWelby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.
Fenwick, CharlesMorley, Charles (BreconshireWhite, George (Norfolk)
Fielden, Edward BrocklehurstMorrell, George HerbertWhite, Luke (York, E.R.)
Finch, George H.Morrison, James ArchibaldWhiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.
Finlay, Sir Robert BannatyneMorton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Fisher, William HayesMowbray, Sir Robert Gray G.Willox, Sir John Archibald
Fletcher, Sir HenryMuntz, Philip A.Wilson, Arthur S. (York,E.R.
Gladstone, Rt.HnHerbert JohnMurray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Godson, Sir Augustus FrederickMurray, Charles J. (Coventry)Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Gordon, Maj. E. (T'wer H'mlts)Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Gore, Hon. F. S. Ormsby-Newdigate, Francis AlexanderYoung, Commander (Berks, E.)
Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John EldonNicholson, William Graham
Goschen, Hon. George JoachimNicol, Donald Ninian


Goulding, Edward AlfredO'Neill, Hon. Robert TorrensSir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Graham, Henry RobertOrr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay

have these large accounts lumped together with no details, and so far as he was concerned he would, while he was in that House, try to resist the system and press every Minister to give information as to how the money was expended. Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 182, Noes, 49. (Division List No. 101.)


Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)Goddard, Daniel FordO'Doherty, William
Ambrose, RobertHardie, J. K. (MerthyrTydvil)O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Boyle, JamesHayden, John PatrickO'Dowd, John
Burke, E. Haviland-Jameson, Maj. J. EustaceO'Malley, William
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.)Joyce, MichaelO'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Clancy, John JosephLeamy, EdmundPower, Patrick Joseph
Condon, Thomas JosephLundon, W.Reddy, M.
Crean, EugeneMacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)
Cullinan, J.M'Dermott, PatrickRedmond, William (Clare)
Delany, WilliamM'Fadden, EdwardSullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C.M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Duffy, William J.Mooney, John J.Weir, James Galloway
Duncan, James H.Murphy, J.Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Ffrench, PeterNannetti, Joseph P.
Field, WilliamNolan, Joseph (Louth, South)


Flavin, Michael JosephO'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.
Flynn, James ChristopherO'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)
Gilhooly, JamesO'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)