Skip to main content

Questions In The House

Volume 160: debated on Thursday 12 July 1906

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Naval Manœuvres

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he can state how many battleships were originally designated to take part in the recent naval manœuvres, how many were unable to take part in the manœuvres or parted company from other ships in this fleet owing to engine-room troubles or other causes; whether the numbers given include the " Montagu," which grounded at Lundy Island, the " Ramillies," which was rammed by the " Resolution," the "Goliath," "Canopus," "Ocean," and " New Zealand; " and whether any other battleships besides the " Victorious " were captured through accidents to their engine equipment.

Until the umpires' reports have been received it is not considered desirable to furnish any information about the manœuvres.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty if he can briefly inform the House what are the principal lessons as regards the defence of the United Kingdom, and the oversea food routes, to be deduced from the recent naval manœuvres. Has not the result of the manœuvres boon to knock the " blue-water " school into a cocked hat?

Until the report of the umpires has been received no reply can be given to the Question.

Cruisers In The Levant

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty how many battleships and how many armoured cruisers were in the Levant in connection with the recent diplomatic difficulties with Turkey.

There were five battleships and seven armoured cruisers in the Levant at the time referred to.

Wei-Hai-Wei

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty if any money already allocated by Parliament for Wei-hai-Wei still remains unexpended; and, if so, to what purpose such sum will be voted.

The aggregate amount included in the Navy Votes in respect to Wei-hai-Wei for the current financial year is, £9,900, of which it may be assumed that rather more than one quarter has already been expended. This amount is spread over Votes 2, 3, 8, Sections 1, 2 and 3, 10 and 11.

Execution Of An Indian Native

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he has received a Report from India of the circumstances connected with the execution of a native, who had appealed to the Governor-General; and what action he intends to take with respect to the official who is responsible for this execution.

When this subject was first raised by a Question in the name of the hon. Member for Tyneside, I expressed my incredulity, and in some particulars incredulity was justified. Udoy Patny was sentenced to death by the Sessions Judge of Sylhet for murder. The right of appeal is of exceptional liberality in India. First, the capital sentence was confirmed by the High Court of Calcutta. Next, the prisoner had right of appeal to the High Court; whether he exercised this right I do not know. The date of the execution was fixed by the Sessions Judge for May 21st. The prisoner now appealed for mercy to the Lieutenant-Governor, who, in the exercise of the powers vested in him, declined on May 12th to interfere. The prisoner then made an oral statement to the superintendent of the gaol, appealing to the Government of India. The superintendent informed the Local Government of the fact by telegram on Sunday the 13th. On the 15th the record of the ease and the notification of the appeal were despatched to the Government of India by registered letter marked " immediate." Owing to some error this letter which should have been delivered on the 19th, did not come into the hands of the Government of India until 10 o'clock on the morning of Monday, the 21st. The Government of India telegraphed staying the execution, if it had not been already carried out, not because they thought that the case deserved clemency —for the record satisfied them of the guilt of the accused—but because they were under the impression that a petition for mercy was on its way to them, and they did not realise that the telegram from the gaoler was all that the prisoner had to say. The convict had already been executed at 7 o'clock that morning. The Local Government admit in a communication to the Government of India that mistakes were made. They overlooked the fact that May 20th was a Sunday and therefore there might be delay. The superintendent of the Sylhet Gaol told them that he had fixed the 21st for the execution, but they gave him no orders to postpone. Let me say that if a prisoner, after petitioning the Local Government, further petitions the Government of India, and if such petition, in the opinion of the Local Government, contains nothing likely to influence the judgment of the Government of India in the prisoner's favour, the Local Government is bound, under the regulations of 1885 to forward it to the Government of India, but is not bound to postpone the execution beyond the date already fixed. In the present case the verbal petition to the Government of India added nothing to the petition to the Local Government which had already been rejected, and the Lieutenant-Governor's action was therefore strictly in accordance with the regulation to which I have just referred. Whatever may be the right construction of the rule, it was to be expected in my opinion that the Local Government, having forwarded the petition would make it part of the same operation to take care that the object in forwarding it should not be made futile by taking no steps to suspend the execution. I must remind the House that the Government of India have had no doubt upon a review of the record that the conviction and the sentence passed by the Sessions Judge and confirmed by the High Court of Calcutta were entirely just. There have been admitted faults in procedure, and I regret to say that in my view these proceedings fall short of the high and exact standard of official duty that the Indian Civil Service has for so many generations so notably maintained.

Does not all this point to the abandonment of the judicial policy of taking away human life?

[No Answer was returned.]

Indian Public Works Department

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if he will give the names of the colleges or other institutions, at which the eleven candidates who were appointed last month, on the recommendation of the Selection Committee, to the permanent staff of the Indian Public Works Department, severally received their scientific or engineering education.

Two had been educated at Trinity College, Dublin; one each at the following Universities:— Cambridge. London, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, the Royal Irish University, the University of Wales; and one each at the Royal College of Science and the Central Technical College, Kensington.

Chinese Crime In South Africa

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if the public interest will allow him to inform, the House what military steps are being taken by the Government for the defence of the white community in South Africa.

The military aspects of the native disturbances in South Africa are receiving the careful attention both of the general officer commanding in South Africa and of the Secretary of State for War, and there is no statement which could usefully be made of the forces which would be mobilised to meet any of the various contingencies which require examination at the present time.

South African Tariff

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that the increase in the South African preferential tariff from two and a half to three percent, was adopted in the Legislative Council of the Transvaal by a majority consisting solely of the official members, and against the unanimous vote of the elected members; has the Colonial Office any control over these official members; will it support the views and wishes of the people of the Transvaal, as represented by their elected members, and advise His Majesty to disallow the vote; can this increased tariff take effect without the concurrences of the Orange River Colony; if not, has that Colony given its assent, and in what form and by whose authority; and is the Colonial Office in any sense responsible.

The new Customs Convention must be ratified by the legislature of the Transvaal and Orange River Colony independently. The Secretary of state understands that it has been so ratified, but has received no detailed report of the proceedings. In view of the impending constitutional changes which will enable what has been done to be reconsidered by elected representatives, the Secretary of state as at present advised does not think it necessary to go further into the question.

Transvaal Imports

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will give a Return with figures showing the value of the present imports into the Transvaal, their increase since the war, the amount of Customs duty raised thereon, and the probable increase in the burden of taxation arising from the now tariff; and the estimated amount of the reduction of railway rates.

A Return of the character desired by the hon. Member will be laid before the House.

Convictions Of Natives In The Transvaal

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of state for the Colonies if he will state the number of convictions for crimes, outrages, and misdemeanours had against natives in the Transvaal from January 1st to July 1st, 1900; and will he define the character of the offences in the same way as has been done in regard to Chinese offences.

The Secretary of State will ask Lord Selborne to have such a Return prepared without delay.

Nigerian Railways

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any decision has been arrived at by the Government in regard to railway extension in Nigeria; and, if so, whether he is able to make any announcement on the subject.

The matter is receiving attention, but I am not yet in a position to make any announcement on the subject.

Kaffirs' Wages

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state what wore the wages paid to Kaffirs in the mines of the Witwatersrand for the years 1898, 1901–2, 1902–3, 1903–4, and 1904–5, respectively.

According to the Report of the Government Mining Engineer the monthly average rate paid to natives in 1898 was 47s. 1d.; for the statistical year 1901–2 it was 26s. 8d.; for 1902–3, 38s. 6d.; for 1903–4, 48s. 10d.; for 1904–5, 52s.; for the last six months of 1905, 51s. 5d.

Indians In The Transvaal

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government of Her late Majesty protested on any occasion to the Government of the Transvaal Republic against the use of the word " native " to include Her Majesty's Indian subjects; and whether that protest was ever withdrawn?

His Majesty's Government in the negotiations which terminated in the arbitration at Bloem-fonteim in 1895 refused to admit that the word " native " in the London Convention covered Indians. In view, however, of the circumstances of the case, they agreed to legislation by the South African Republic in derogation of the strict interpretation of the Convention.

Chinese Coolie Contracts

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether in view of the recent outbreaks of crime among Chinese coolies in South Africa, and with the object of stopping their further importation, the Government will, in consideration of the cancellation of any existing contracts, offer to any person shown to be a loser thereby a sum of money not exceeding the loss actually sustained.

I have nothing to add to the statements of policy already made to the House, which, as my hon. friend cannot fail to recognise, exclude the possibility of adopting his suggestion.

Is the Government going to maintain much longer the condition of Chinese slavery in the Transvaal?

[No Answer was returned.]

Recruitment Of Kaffir Labour

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether with a view of substituting as far as possible Kaffir for Chinese labour in South Africa, the Government will immediately take all means available for the recruiting of Kaffirs by responsible persons and agencies?

As I have already explained to the House in answer to Questions of a similar character, His Majesty's Government are inclined to assist all legitimate means of recruiting natives, subject to the essential condition that the interests and good treatment of the natives themselves are effectually secured.

Coolie Import Licenses

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether a record has been kept of the names of the firms or persons to whom the 16,000 licenses were issued in November last for the importation of Chinese coolies into the Transvaal; and, if so, whether he has any objection to state for whom the last two shiploads of coolies were brought to the Rand, and for whom the remaining 8,000 licences were issued.

The information is not in possession of the Colonial Office, but I will ask for it.

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any action has been taken by the Secretary of State for the Colonies to prevent further importations of Chinese labourers into South Africa; and whether a date has been fixed for cancelling the licenses remaining unused which were granted by the late Cabinet during their last week's term of office.

I would remind the hon. Member of the action taken by the Secretary of State, in fixing a time-limit for the further importations, as stated by me in this House on the 5th instant, †

The Disturbances In Natal

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can state the total destruction of native life, and the number of kraals destroyed by military operations in Natal, since the recent outbreak of hostilities.

I cannot add anything to my reply to a similar Question of July 5th.‡ Papers containing the information in the possession of the Colonial Office will be laid shortly. Meanwhile the Secretary of State has received the following telegram from Sir H. McCallum which the House may wish to hear. "July 11th. McKenzie's severe blows have had excellent effect; resistance practically over; rebels for the most part cowed and in hiding. Encouragement being given to surrenders and to wounded coming in for medical attendance. General proclamation is to be issued reassuring natives, and pointing out folly of armed rebellion. Barker has cleared Noodsberg, capturing thirty-three rebels and many cattle. General situation much clearer' than for some time past."

Transvaal Gaol Population

I beg to ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies what was the number of white men, Kaffirs, and Chinese, respectively, confined in the gaols of the Transvaal on May 31st last; and what proportion the number of

† See Col. 211, 212.
‡ See Col. 214.
prisoners bore in each case to the total number of the white men, Kaffirs, and Chinese then residing in the Colony.

I have not the figures for Kaffirs and white men, but I will make inquiry by mail as to the numbers and proportion.

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any official information showing that on Saturday night last a house on the Rand district of the Transvaal, occupied by a white man with his wife and children, was attacked by Chinese and Kaffirs; that the inmates were robbed; that the woman was outraged, dragged across the veldt, and again outraged; and, if so, can he say whether any of the perpetrators of these alleged crimes have been arrested.

asked whether, in view of the serious increase in the number of outrages, the Government intended to do anything for the protection of the white population.

Alleged Chinese School At Johannesburg

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the attention of his Department has been called to a recent police court case at Johannesburg wherein certain persons were charged with keeping an alleged school for Chinamen at Teiffenberg's Buildings; whether the evidence of Sergeant Adams has been cabled home; and what was the result of the judicial inquiry.

No, Sir. If the hon. Member will furnish me with the information on which he bases his Question, inquiry shall be made.

Abyssinia

*

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any preliminary agreement between France and Great Britain as to the Abyssinian Railway has been reached; and, if so, whether the consent of the Emperor of Ethiopia has been, obtained, or is expected.

I beg also to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign. Affairs whether he is in a position to state the nature of the undertakings given on behalf of this country in the agreement between Great Britain, France, and Italy concerning Abyssinia; and what advantages to British commerce he has endeavoured to obtain from this agreement.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS
(Sir EDWARD GREY, Northumberland, Berwick)

An agreement between Great Britain, France, and Italy has now been provisionally initialled. Steps have been taken to communicate it to the Emperor Menelek, and it will not be signed or published till His Majesty has expressed his views.

Prosecutions Of Europeans In Egypt

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will say upon what evidence the assertion of unusual political unrest in Egypt at the present time is based; and whether he will furnish a Return showing the number of prosecutions and convictions for offences of violence against members of the Army of Occupation and European civilians, respectively, together with nationalities and localities during the last five years, including as far as possible the present year.

I cannot, undertake to have such a Return prepared. The statements I have made are based upon confidential reports received from His Majesty's representative at Cairo extending over several months.

The Denshawi Trial

I beg to ask the-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will state under what section of the Native Penal Code or the Special Decree of 1895 the sentence of flogging was passed in the Denshawi cases.

By Article 5 of the Decree of 1895 the Special Tribunal has full power to inflict whatever punishment is considered necessary without reference to the ordinary penal code. A translation of the Decree including this Article will be included in the Papers which have been promised.

The Tribunal is given full discretion in the matter of punishment without regard to the code.

Have the Special Tribunal power to inflict any punishment they please; torture, for instance?

I will lay the translation of the Decree on the table and the House will see what its wording actual is. If it is their desire to discuss the terms of the Decree, any question in regard to it can lie raised afterwards.

I beg to ask the Secretary of state for Foreign Affairs whether the request for trial by the Special Tribunal under the Decree of 1895 has to be made by Lord Cromer and the General Office Commanding the Army of Occupation jointly, and, if so, was this done in the recent case at Denshawi; whether, seeing that the officers in question had obtained no authoritative permission to shoot pigeons at Denshawi, they were committing an illegal act and liable as trespassers; and whether, as, even if permission had been granted, they were acting solely as private individuals, and not in the exercise of their regular functions, he will explain why the Decree of 1895 was applied.

Lord Cromer, on receipt of an application from the General Officer Commanding, requested the Ministry for Foreign Affairs to summon the Special Tribunal provided for by the Decree of 1895. It has not been suggested that the officers were guilty of trespass. The Special Tribunal was instituted to take the place of courts-martial; to insure that cases of this nature should be tried by competent judges acquainted with the country, customs, and language of the people; and, at the same time, to prevent any possible miscarriage of justice, by giving greater security to the accused than they would have had if tried by courts-martial.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in a previous case, in which the officers or soldiers were not acting in their military capacity, it was held that the Decree did not apply?

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether these officers were acting as private individuals?

I have said they were in uniform. The officers of an Army of Occupation in uniform cannot be considered as private individuals.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the President of the Special Tribunal, Boutros Pacha Ghali, had ever qualified in law and had ever sat as a judge in a criminal case before; if so, when and where; whether at the trial the questions were put by the members of the Court to the witnesses, instead of by counsel; and whether this is in accordance with the native code of; criminal procedure.

Boutros Pacha was for many year's Under-Secretary of State at the Ministry of Justice. I am not aware whether he has previously officiated as a judge in a criminal case, but he is Acting Minister of Justice in the absence of the latter, and as such necessarily presided over the Court. At the trial, after each witness had been heard, counsel for the defence were invited by the Court to put any questions they pleased. This is in accordance with the code of criminal procedure in Egypt.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when he hopes to be able to lay before the House official papers concerning the recent trials and executions at Denshawi, Egypt.

As soon as possible, and at any rate before the end of the session. I hope in a fortnight.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether all the proceedings of the special tribunal under the Decree of 1895 are required to be taken in accordance with the Egyptian penal code; whether, in accordance with the provisions of such code, the prisoners at the preliminary investigation at Denshawi were confronted with the witnesses for the prosecution; whether the preliminary examination was conducted by an examining magistrate; whether the Parquet was represented thereat, and the evidence taken in the presence of the prisoners; whether the prisoners were represented by counsel who were afforded opportunities of examining directly the witnesses for the prosecution, or how otherwise; whether the body of Captain Bull, the injuries occasioned to his fellow officers, and these received by the woman shot and other villagers were examined by medical men other than these who gave evidence for the prosecution; if so, who carried out the examination on behalf of the prisoners; whether, seeing that the Egyptian code of criminal procedure requires that the prosecution in all criminal trials shall be represented by a member of the Parquet, he will say why this course was departed from in this instance; and whether he will explain why the native advocate, Ibrahim Bey Helbowi, was appointed to prosecute in this case, in view of the general practice and the interests of the accused.

Article 4 of the Decree of 1895 lays down that the Tribunal shall follow the rules of procedure as provided for by the native criminal code, in so far as they are compatible with the necessity of expediting the proceedings. I am not aware of the reasons for appointing Helbowi Bey to conduct the prosecution. I have no information as to the other points, which will doubtless appear in the account of the evidence given at the trial.

Death Duties

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer seeing there is no outdoor staff charged specially with preventing the evasion of death duties, if he will say how queries relating to affidavits sent from the head offices are dealt with; whether they are referred to the solicitors who prepared the account, or to the executor or administrator of the estate; if not, to whom are they referred.

By Section 7 (8) of the Finance Act, 1894, " the value of any property for the purpose of estate duty shall be ascertained by the Commissioners in such manner and by such means as they think fit." Queries issued in pursuance of these powers are addressed to these persons who, according to the circumstances, may seem to be the best qualified to answer them.

Factory Inspectors

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Homo Department if his attention has been directed to the statement in the Factory Inspectors' Report, just issued, that Mr. J. H. Warren and Mr. T. O. Edwards, factory inspectors, each travelled nearly 16,000 miles in 1905, or about sixty miles for each working day, while many other inspectors travelled distances almost as great; and, if so, whether he will make such an increase in the staff as will enable the inspectors to devote more time to inspection and less to travel.

*

I have had the Report to which my hon. friend refers before me. In parts of the country which are not industrial in character and where factories and workshops are comparatively few and scattered, it is not possible to avoid a large amount of travelling on the part of the inspectors. I am, however, quite in agreement with my hon. friend in thinking that time spent in travelling should be reduced to a minimum. Certain changes in this direction have recently been made, and further readjustment will follow the increase in the staff which I am about to propose.

Leckhampton Eight Of Way Dispute

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has received any petition or petitions praying for the complete or partial remission of the sentences passed by Mr. Justice Lawrence at the recent Gloucester assizes upon Barrett and others for rioting on Good Friday last at Leckhampton Hill, Cheltenham; and what action he proposes to take in the matter.

I beg also to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the Leckhampton Hill case, which arose out of a demonstration in defence of public rights; is he aware that Mr. Barrett, among others, was sentenced to four months hard labour, although police and other witnesses testified to his character and respectability, and to the fact that the general tone of his speech was to persuade the people not to do damage; that he took no part in and was not present at the riot; is he aware that Barrett's speech, urging the people not to do damage, was construed to be an incitement to riot; and will he investigate the case and reconsider the sentences passed by the judge on Barrett and the other prisoners.

*

I have received no petition in this case, though my attention has been drawn to it informally by the hon. Member for Cheltenham, but the newspaper report with which he has kindly furnished me is the only information I as yet possess. I can only say that if I receive any petition shewing grounds for believing either that any of the convictions are wrong, or that the sentences are unnecessarily severe, it will be my duty carefully to consider all the reasons alleged, and to consult the judge, and make any inquiries that may be necessary before deciding what advice I should tender to the King.

Quack Medicines

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention had been called to the remarks made by Mr. Coroner Troutbeck, at an inquest held at Wandsworth on the 9th instant, to the effect that the deceased was in a state of health to fall an easy prey to quackery, and that quacks were allowed to practice and make fortunes out of poor people who were suffering from mortal diseases; and will he say whether he intends to take any steps to prevent the public from being victimised by such persons.

*

No, Sir. My attention had not been called to the Coroner's remarks. I fear I cannot add anything to the reply on this subject which 1 gave to the Question asked by the hon. Member on March 12th last.†

[No Answer was returned.]

German Gipsies At Hull

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the condition of the bands of gipsies now at Hull; whether he has received information that such bands will not be allowed either to go on to the United States or to return to Germany, whence they are said to have come; and whether, if the instructions under the Aliens Act are not sufficiently stringent to keep out such immigrants, he will consider the question of revising them.

*

The German gipsies now at Hull form part of these who landed in Scotland in March, April, and May. When it became apparant that the traffic was being organised so that these aliens should escape inspection I took steps, as announced to this House on May 10th,‡ to secure that any further arrivals by the steamship line which was carrying them should be subjected to inspection. Those steps were successful in preventing any further arrivals. I think the American law would certainly prevent these gipsies from landing in the United States. As regards Germany, I understand that the main difficulty is due

† See (4) Debates, cliii., 921.
‡ (See (4) Debates, clvi., 921.
to the lack of passage money. The Aliens Act gives me no power in the matter except as regards any individuals who may be brought before a Court in circumstances rendering them liable to expulsion under the Act.

Case Of Miss Chesshire

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will refer the case of the apprehension and detention of Miss Alice Louisa Chesshire, on December 14th, 1905, as a suspected lunatic, to the Metropolitan Police Commission of Inquiry now sitting to investigate and report upon.

*

The police in the execution of their duty apprehended this lady who was found by them wandering in the streets unable to give any account of herself. She was subsequently certified to be insane and removed to Cane Hill Asylum. The case does not appear to come within the scope of the inquiry by the Royal Commission.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been directed to the case of Miss Alice Louisa Chesshire, who, on the night of December 14th, 1905, was taken by the police to the St. Giles' Workhouse as a suspected lunatic, and on admission was searched by the workhouse porter; and whether he will consider the advisability of issuing an instructional order to boards of guardians requiring that in all cases where it is necessary that women should be searched it shall be done by a woman and not by a man.

I have made inquiry on this subject, and am informed that upon the admission of the patient to the workhouse her pockets were searched by the matron of the Tottenham Court Road Police Station, by whom she was accompanied, and that she was taken at once to the Female Lunatic Ward. I am further informed that in no instance has the workhouse porter searched a female lunatic or other female on admission. It devolves on the matron of the workhouse to cause females to be searched on admission, and I understand that at the St. Giles' Workhouse this duty is performed by a female officer under the matron's supervision.

Vaccination Fees

I beg-to ask the President of the Local Government Board if he has taken any stops in the direction of reducing the high fees paid for vaccination; if so, what steps; and, if nothing definite has been done, will he say when the grievance complained of by the local authorities is likely to be redressed.

I have not at present definitely decided what shall be done in this matter. I am, however, giving attention to it, and I will come to a decision on the subject as early as may be practicable.

Motor Car Speeds

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government. Board if he can state how many applications from local authorities to limit the speed of motor cars within certain limits and at certain places under the Motor Car Act, 1903, Clause 9, he has received since taking office, and bow many he has agreed to and how many he has refused.

Two such applications have been received. With regard to one of them a local inquiry is about to be held, and with regard to the other I am awaiting some further particulars for which I have asked. I may add that there were three cases of the kind referred to in which the application had been received before the change of Government took place, but which were not ready for decision at that time. In each of these cases I have decided to issue a restricting order with respect to the more important of the roads to which the application relates.

Australian Mail Contract

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he is able to communicate to the House the terms of the new mail contract with Australia; and whether the arrangement comprises an all-British service.

No new contract has yet been concluded by His Majesty's Government for the fortnightly mail services which it provides to and from Australia. A service is provided in the alternate weeks by the Australian Government; but I have no information as to any arrangements which that Government may have made for carrying on the service after the termination in January, 1908, of its existing contract with the Orient Steam Navigation Company.

St John's School, Wakefield

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that the children are being sent home from St. John's School, Wakefield, because the parents refuse to pay school fees: and that where parents insist upon free places the local education committee compel children to attend a school nearly a mile away from their homes; and whether the managers of St. John's School, which is rate aided and State-supported, can refuse free places or charge fees; and, if so, will he consider an Amendment to the Education Bill making all places in a primary school under the local authority free.

The Board of Education have no information of the incident referred to in the Question, and I am not aware of any complaint in regard to school fees in Wakefield. No fees may be charged in a public elementary school unless sanctioned by the local authority; and in other ways the conditions in regard to the charge of fees are very strict. It is the duty of the local authority to provide a sufficient number of places in public elementary schools without charge of fee, for the needs of the area; and no parent can be called upon to pay a fee for his child in a public elementary school if there is no room for him in any other school within reach without payment of fee. If any Wakefield parent appeals to the Board of Education I will see that the case is carefully investigated.

Dog Licence Exemptions

I beg to ask the hon. Member for South Somerset, as representing the President of the Board of Agriculture, if he is aware that the words in the Dogs Bill, requiring that the consent of the Petty Sessions Court in England and the Sheriff in Scotland must be obtained before a certificate will be given to persons such as farmers, crofters, and shepherds, who have long enjoyed exemption on the ground that dogs were a necessity of their lives, will affect such persons prejudicially; and whether he will introduce Amendments to continue the exemption these persons have hitherto enjoyed.

In pursuance of Section 22 of the Customs and Inland Revenue Act, 1878, a certificate of exemption from licence duty can be obtained by farmers or shepherds for dogs kept and used solely for the purpose of tending sheep or cattle on a farm or in the exercise of the calling or occupation of a shepherd. This enactment will still remain in force. It is not proposed to alter in any way the grounds on which exemption is granted, but only to provide a more efficient and Convenient means of deciding doubtful cases No personal appearance before the Court will be necessary except in opposed cases, and then only if the Court considers such appearance to be necessary for the proper consideration of the application.

Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew

I beg to ask the hon. Member for South Somerset, as representing the President of the Board of Agriculture, if his attention has been directed to the fact that the cost of upkeep of the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, added to the rental value of the area which they cover, amounts to a very large sum of money; and whether he will consider the advisability of making that expenditure of more value to the taxpayers by adding to the staff the few men necessary to enable the gardens to be opened on Sunday mornings without adding to the hours of Sunday labour.

My noble friend has given further consideration to the representations made by my hon. friend on this subject, but he regrets that he does not see his way to modify the conclusion at which he previously arrived. I may add that the additional expenditure entailed by the earlier opening of the gardens as proposed would not be less than £600 a year.

Deptford Cattle Market

I beg to ask the hon. Member for South Somerset, as representing the President of the Board of Agriculture, whether he is aware that, owing to the closing of the Deptford Foreign Cattle Market to the cattle and sheep of all countries, except these from the United States and Canada, a large number of tanners, fellmongers, slaughtermen, drovers, carmen, and clerks, earning wages of upwards of £4,000 per week, have been put out of work; and whether the Board of Agriculture will relax the present prohibitory regulation and allow cattle and sheep to be imported for immediate slaughter from all countries which have been officially declared to be free of foot-and-mouth disease for twelve months.

I have no means of saying whether or not the estimate in the first part of my hon. friend's Question is correct, but I may point out that the effect of the prohibition of the landing at Deptford of animals brought from the Continent has been more than counterbalanced by the increase which has taken place in the North American trade since the year 1892, when the prohibition came into force. For the reasons indicated in the reply which I gave to my hon. friend on the 2nd instant, † it is not possible for the Board, consistently with their statutory obligations, to adopt the course he suggests.

North Tadworth Farm, Epsom

I beg to ask the hon. Member for South Somerset, as representing the President of the Board of Agriculture, if his attention has been directed to the fact that on February 16th last Mr. William Hodson and his family were evicted from North Tadworth Farm, Epsom, after a tenancy of twenty-eight years, during which he had established a fruit-growing and jam-making industry, employing many people, as the sequel to litigation concerning his right to protect his plantations by shooting rabbits under

† See (4) Debates, clix., 1380.
a special clause in his lease; and whether he can promise legislation, either by affording time for the Land Tenure Bill or otherwise, in order to prevent farmers being deprived of their livelihood in the interests of sport.

The circumstances to which my hon. friend refers were brought personally to the notice of my noble friend by Mr. Hodson himself, but I understand that they are likely to form the subject of further legal proceedings, and I cannot therefore express any opinion respecting them. The representations made by Mr. Hodson will be borne in mind when the Land Tenure Bill again comes forward for consideration.

Ecclesiastical Commission Estate In Durham

I beg to ask the hon. Member for East Bristol, as Church Estates Commissioner, the number of licences owned by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners in the county of Durham.

*

*

That is a Question difficult to answer. Leases are continually falling in.

Is it the policy of the Commissioners to reduce the number of licences on their property?

*

Liskeard Training Schools

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that practically no advantage has been taken of the offer made by the Congested Districts Board to assist boys at the training school for the mercantile marine at Liskeard, he will approach the Admiralty with the object of obtaining for the Highlands and Islands one of the obsolete cruisers about to be sold as a training ship for the mercantile marine.

There are no funds available for the maintenance of a vessel engaged in the purpose contemplated by the hon. Member, and expenditure on this object is also outside the powers of the Congested Districts Board. It would not therefore serve any useful purpose to approach the Admiralty.

Uneconomic Holdings In Ireland

I "beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland will the inquiry for which a Royal Commission is to be appointed be an inquiry into uneconomic agricultural holdings whether isolated or not, or will it be restricted to congestion, as defined by existing statutes; and will it be also an inquiry into untenanted land as the material from which the present uneconomic condition of Ireland has to be relieved.

The inquiry will relate to congestion generally, and will not be limited to the districts now scheduled under the Act as congested. It will include the question of obtaining untenanted land as a means of relieving congestion and creating economic holdings.

Estates Commissioners' Regulations

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will give the name of the author of there portions of the regulations issued to the Estates Commissioners under the late Government which these Commissioners afterwards declared to have been invalid, unreasonable, vague, and subversive of the law; is the author of these regulations still in the service of the present Government in the same department, without any diminution of salary or restriction of power; and, if so, what is his salary, and why is he retained.

The regulations in question were issued by the late Government, and I do not know who was particularly responsible for suggesting any part of them. Even if I did know, it would be entirely against the rules of the public service to attribute responsi- bility to any persons other than the Minister of the Crown.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to deny that Sir Antony Macdonnell is the author?

Drumraney Outrage

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he has received particulars of an attack upon the farmhouse of John Cassells, at Drumraney, Westmeath by men with firearms, when many shots were fired into the dwelling, and the farmer's two sons had a narrow escape of being killed; whether he has any information as to the cause of this attack; and whether the police have any clue to the perpetrators.

It was reported to the police that on the night of June 26th one shot was fired through a window of Cassells' house, but from the direction in which the shot was fired it would not appear that personal injury was intended, and it is, I am informed, not the case that Cassells' sons had a narrow escape. Whether more than one person was concerned in the matter is not known, nor is the cause known. The police have not yet succeeded in bringing the offender to justice, but are pursuing their inquiries in the case.

Carroll V Cryan

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the solicitor acting on behalf of Edward Carroll has stated that he replied to all the letters received from Constable Cryan or his solicitor; and, under the circumstances, whether he will see that Constable Cryan is not allowed to evade his legal liability and that he be called upon to pay his part of the damages obtained against him in the High Court for an assault upon Edward Carroll on March 17th, 1905.

As I imformed the hon. Member on March 1st,† Constable Cryan wrote to the plaintiffs solicitor offering

† See (4) Debates, clii., 1270.
to pay his share, namely, £50, of the damages by instalments, but the offer was refused. Having regard to the constable's circumstances, the offer appears to the Inspector-General to be a reasonable one. The constable does not appear to be seeking to evade his legal liability.

Waterford Evicted Tenants

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that Mr. Guiry, inspector of Estates Commissioners, met some evicted tenants of the estate of J. G. Beresford, near Stradbally, county Waterford, on the 2nd instant; that Mr. Beresford has long since lodged an application with the Estates Commissioners for the sale of certain lands at or near Stradbally, under the Land Act of 1903, and asking to have them declared an estate: and that Mr. Beresford ordered the inspector to desist from inspecting portions of his estate consisting of evicted farms and untenanted land; and whether, in view of the necessity of facilities being given to the inspectors of the Estates Commissioners to inspect lands on estates which it is proposed to sell, he will say what steps the Estates Commissioners now propose to take in this case.

The Estates Commissioners inform me that the applications of the evicted tenants on Mr. Beresford's estate were referred to an inspector for inquiry. His report, however, has not yet been received, and in the meantime the Commissioners have no information as to what happened at his inspection. Upon the receipt of the report the Commissioners will deal with the matter. It is the fact that purchase agreements in respect of portion of the estate have been lodged with the Commissioners, but in the ordinary course the case will not, in order of priority, be reached this year.

Dromod Police Hut

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether any steps are being taken, or are about to be taken, towards the removal of the police hut at Dromod; whether he is aware that the sergeant in charge of the hut has a farm of land some miles away where lie spends the greater part of his time, and that the police attached to the station have no duties to perform; and whether he will, under such circumstances, direct the hut to be removed at once.

I am informed by the police authorities that the police hut in question, through originally provided as a protection post, has for the past ten years been used as a permanent police station with a district attached, and the police employed there perform all the ordinary duties appertaining to a police station. The continuance of this station is considered necessary, the two nearest stations being each five miles distant. The sergeant in charge of the station has a farm in the adjoining county, at which it is understood he spends his annual leave of absence, but the Inspector-General is not aware that he goes there at other times. Inquiry, however, will be made into the matter.

Cootehill Evicted Tenant

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if his attention has been called to the case of Andrew Beggan, an evicted tenant on the estate of Captain E. P. Smith, Bellamont Forest, Cootehill, county Cavan, which estate has been sold under the Land Act, 1903, the first instalment of the purchase money having been paid; whether the Estates Commissioners have taken any action for the purpose of having Beggan reinstated, and, if so, what these stops are, and whether they promise to be successful and, if they have taken no steps in the matter, will he explain why they have not done so.

The Estates Commissioners inform me that an originating application for the sale of Captain Smith's estate is before them, but they have not yet sanctioned the advances, and therefore none of the purchase money has been paid. It is stated in the Schedule of Tenancies that the landlord has offered to reinstate Andrew Beggan, but no purchase agreement has been lodged in his case. The Commissioners have directed their inspector to enquire into Beggan's case, but have not yet received his report.

Roo Estate, Gort

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Estates Commissioners received a petition some weeks ago from the Roo tenants, near Gort, county Galway, which pointed out that all the holdings of the tenants ranged from £3 to £5 a year, and stated that a number of large grazing farms, belonging to Mr. Walter Shaw Taylor, Ardrahan, were lying alongside of their small holdings; whether he is aware that negotiations are going on at present between Mr. Taylor and the Estates Commissioners for the sale of some untenanted land, with a view of enlarging the holdings of the tenants on the Taylor estate; and whether, in view of the facts cited in the petition of the Roo annuitant tenants, he will instruct the Estates Commissioners not to sanction the purchase of small bits of the worst part of Mr. Taylor's untenanted lands, but insist on buying as much land as will make all the adjoining small holdings economic.

The Estates Commissioners have received the petition referred to. They inform mo that Mr. Shaw Taylor has expressed his willingness to accept their offer to purchase under Section 6, certain untenanted lands in the locality mentioned, and a scheme for the enlargement of small holdings on the estate is now being prepared. The Commissioners found that a portion of the untenanted land at first offered by the vendor was not suitable for division among the tenants, but at the Commissioners' request the vendor has now consented to sell additional land which is most suitable for the purpose in view, and he is retaining in his own hands the untenanted land which the Commissioners considered unsuitable, as well as a small portion of good land.

Post Office Contracts In Ireland

*

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General, with reference to his intention to appoint inspectors of Post Office contracts, whether he will take care that an Irishman resident in Ireland will be appointed as inspector of contracts made in that country.

An inspector, to exercise general supervision over Post Office clothing, and other similar contracts has been appointed; but any inspection or enquiries ordinarily required in Ireland could probably usually be entrusted to officers on the Irish Post office establishment.

Welsh Disestablishment

I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether, in reference to the introduction of the promised Bill to put an end to the Established Church in Wales, he proposes to follow the precedent in the Irish case; and if it is his intention to submit Resolutions to the House similar to these moved by Mr. Gladstone, in April 1868, in anticipation of the Report of the Royal Commission then inquiring into the condition of the Irish Church.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
(Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN, Stirling Burghs)

No, sir. As at present advised, I see no necessity for submitting Resolutions to the House in anticipation of the Report of the Royal Commission.

South African Constitutions

I beg to ask the Prime Minister at about what date does he expect to be able to make an announcement as to the new constitution of the Transvaal and Orange River Colony.

It is not possible to name a date until after the return of Sir West Ridgeway's Committee.

Will the Report of Sir West Ridgeway's Committee be laid on the Table before August 4th?

Ecclesiastical Discipline

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he will give an early day for the discussion of the Report of the Royal Commission on Ecclesiastical Discipline; and if an opportunity for discussing the Report will in any case be afforded the House of Commons before letters of business are issued to the Convocations or action of any kind taken.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman was aware that Scottish affairs had not received one day of the time of the House.

My hon. friend need be under no apprehension on that account. With regard to the first paragraph of the Question, I am afraid that in the existing state of public business it is scarcely possible to find an early day, and I would remind the hon. Member that the subject could hardly be discussed with advantage before the evidence is in the hands of Members. With regard to the last paragraph of the Question, I cannot give any positive assurance.

asked the Attorney-General whether he had soon the recommendation of the Commissioners on Ecclesiastical Discipline that the two Convocations should meet together and discuss a certain specified subject and whether the clerical representatives of the separate and independent provinces of Canterbury and York were legally entitled to sit or vote together.

My hon. friend has asked me a Question on a somewhat recondite subject, but, giving such attention as I have been able to the matter, I have come to the conclusion that there is no constitutional argument against the Convocations of the two provinces sitting together. I find that right down to the thirteenth century they frequently sat together, but that the latest occasion on which they adopted that practice was in the year 1268. So that, assuming that letters of business were issued to the two provinces, I see no reason why they should not, at all events, debate the subjects referred to them together; but, possibly, it might be well, though the subjects were debated by the two Houses, representing the whole Church, to vote separately. I am led to make that suggestion because the clergy have a somewhat larger representation in the Convocation for the Province of York than the clergy have in the Convocation for the Province of Canterbury. Therefore, while their deliberations might be joint, it would, perhaps, be as well that their decision should be separate.

Foreign Office Vote

*

I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that of the six and a half hours devoted to the Foreign Office Vote nearly a quarter of the time was consumed by one speech, to that many subjects of importance could not be brought forward, he will consider whether he can give a day for the further discussion of this Vote upon the Report stage.

My right hon. friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign Affairs intends to present Papers dealing with Egyptian affairs and, when these are laid, I will consider what time can be found to discuss them if required.

*

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman was aware that only one branch of British policy was discussed in the short time left to the Committee by the hon. Member for South Monaghan.

The hon. Gentleman had better address his expostulation to the Member for South Monaghan.

Municipal Corporations Bill

Lords Amendment to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.— ( Mr. Vivian.)

Police And Sanitary Committee

Special Report brought up, and read; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 254.]

Minutes of Proceedings to be printed. [No 254.]

Supply 16Th Allotted Day

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. EMMOTT (Oldham) in the Chair.]