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Questions In The House

Volume 175: debated on Thursday 13 June 1907

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Lower Hooe Road, Plymouth

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is aware that the roadway loading from Turnchapel to Lower Hooe, over which the Admiralty claim control, is in a bad condition and almost impassable in wet weather by reason of the mud; whether he is aware that this road is the sole means of access to the railway station enjoyed by the inhabitants of Turnchapel; and whether the Admiralty will put it in order, or whether they have an intention of giving to the inhabitants other means of access to the station.

The Admiralty have never admitted any right of way over that portion of the road which they control, and I understand that, though the most direct, it is not the only means of access to the station. Orders have been given for the repair of the Admiralty portion of the road, and negotiations on the subject generally will be opened with the local authority.

Warships In The Persian Gulf

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether, under the present distribution of the Fleet, any warship of any description patrols the Persian Gulf.

Under present arrangements the Gunboats "Redbreast" and "Lapwing" and the special-service vessel "Sphinx" are told off for special service in Indian waters, and their principal duties are in the Persian Gulf. Visits to the Gulf are also made by other ships of the East Indies squadron from time to time. At present the "Sphinx" and "Lapwing" are in the Persian Gulf.

China Squadron

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether any battleship is included in the China squadron at the present time; and whether, if the Answer be in the negative, the American, French, and German Eastern fleets are in like manner composed exclusively of cruisers, destroyers, and smaller vessels.

There is no battleship in the China squadron at the present time; and, except the "Redoubtable," a third class battleship of the French Navy, launched in 1876, in commission at Saigon, and two armoured coast-defence ships of the United States Navy in reserve in the Philippines, the ships composing the French, American, and German squadrons in the Eastern seas are of the classes referred to in the Question.

Chatham Dockyard Discharges

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty how many men were discharged from the dockyard at Chatham during the year 1906, and how many have been discharged during the present year; and whether any representations have been received on this subject.

The net decrease in numbers in Chatham yard in 1906, taking into account reductions, natural wastage, adjustment of trades and other causes, was 398. Up to the 1st of June of the present year there has been a corresponding net increase of 251. Representations in regard to the work to be allotted to this yard have been made to me by a large and representative deputation introduced by my hon. friend the Member for Rochester, to whom I hope to be able to give an early Answer.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many men were discharged immediately after the South African War?

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the number of discharges in 1904 –5 under the late administration?

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty if there is any ship-building going on at the present time at Chatham Dockyard, or any work being done there beyond repairs; and what are the intentions of the Admiralty with regard to the building of battleships and cruisers there in the future.

Ship building is going on at the present time at Chatham Dockyard as well as repairs, the armoured cruiser "Shannon" being in course of completion, while several submarines are under construction. The question of what work will be given to this yard will be considered in the preparation of the Estimates for the next financial year.

Is it proposed to deepen the channel to enable ships of greater draught to get to the dockyard?

The Coastguard

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty if he can state the names of the three coastguard stations which have been closed this year, and the dates on which they were closed.

The three stations are: Downderry, closed 25th March, 1907; Cahore, closed 1st May, 1907; Catterline, closed 15th May, 1907. The necessary orders had in all cases been given some months earlier.

May I ask my right hon. friend whether these dates are not all subsequent to the pledge he gave me that no coastguard stations would be closed till the subject had been discussed in the House?

The pledge which I gave to the House was that no further orders would be issued till the House had an opportunity of considering the Question. The orders to close those stations were all given long before I gave that pledge.

Can my right hon. friend say how many orders there are now outstanding?

I will give my hon. and gallant friend an Answer if he will put his Question on the Paper.

I should not like to give a definite number, but I do not think they are many. I will find out and give the hon. Member the number privately this afternoon.

Accident In A Submarine

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is in a position to give the House any information with regard to the reported accident on a submarine at Portsmouth this morning.

I regret to say there has been an accident, and I hold in my hand a telegram received this afternoon from the Commander-in-Chief at Portsmouth. The telegram is as follows: —"Regret to report slight explosion this morning on board submarine C 8, whereby Lieutenant Guy Hart was very dangerously injured, and has since died; Thomas O'Connor, E.R.A., and James R. Foster, stoker of the first class, slightly injured. Both of the latter are doing well. Inquiry will be held as soon as possible. Boat was charging batteries at the time."

Naval Summer Cruises

On behalf of the hon. Member for Ross and Cromarty I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether arrangements will be made for His Majesty's Fleet to visit not only Invergordon but Stornoway and Lochbroom this summer.

Arrangements for the summer cruises of the various squadrons have been completed, and they cannot be altered without inconvenience. The programmes include a visit to Invergordon, but do not include visits to Stornoway and Lochbroom.

Woolwich Discharges

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if any record has been kept of the names and addresses of those artisans recently discharged from Woolwich who have found work in Continental factories, so that in case of emergency their services may be promptly recovered for the nation.

No record has been kept of the nature mentioned. As far as can be ascertained very few men have gone to Continental factories.

Military Courts-Martial And Sentences

On behalf of the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers were under sentence of courts-martial and detained in His Majesty's prisons on 31st December, 1906; and whether any of such detentions were by order of field courts-martial in the South African War.

Two hundred and thirty-nine soldiers were in prison on 31st December, 1906, under sentence of court-martial. Of those there were six imprisoned by order of field courts-martial in the South African War.

On behalf of the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers In the Regular Army were tried by courts-martial in 1906; how many trials ended in acquittal; how many men were convicted; and the average term of imprisonment inflicted.

Tried.Acquitted.Convicted.
General courts-martial725
District courts-martial5,3431755,168

Of this last number forty were not confirmed or were quashed by the General Officer Commanding and fifty-two were quashed by the Judge Advocate General. The average term of imprisonment inflicted was as follows:—

Penal servitude 3·33 years.
Imprisonment with hard labour:—
General court-martial18 months.
District court-martial87 days.

The cases in which detention was inflicted after trial by district court-martial gave an average of forty-nine days.

Do these figures disclose a terrible state of criminality in the Army, or that the sentences of courts-martial are very terrible?

No, Sir; considering the enormous number of British soldiers under military law in all parts of the world I do not think they are excessive.

Soldiers As Railway Firemen

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that a number of Royal Engineers are being employed on the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway as firemen for the purpose of training, at the minimum rate of pay on all classes of work performed by them, and that ordinary firemen are being displaced and promotion checked, and a burden placed on those drivers who have the responsibility of training them; and whether he will arrange with railway companies that such be placed on engines in addition to the ordinary firemen and not in place of them.

Eleven men have been sent for a short course of training as firemen on the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, and are being paid by the company at the rate of 3s. 6d. a. day, that being the rate which it was understood would be paid to other stokers employed in the same work. I am not aware that ordinary firemen are thereby being displaced, or that their promotion is being checked, nor that any additional burden is placed upon the drivers in the matter of training the military fireman which is not usual and common to the training of all firemen on all railways. The arrangements as to the number of men on engines rest entirely with the company, and the War Department is not in a position to interfere in the matter.

Victoria Memorial Hall; Calcutta

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India what is the total sum collected up to date from the people of India for the erection of the Victoria Memorial Hall, in Calcutta; whether he has noticed the remarks made by the Maharaja of Darbhanga, during the Budget debate on 27th March last (page 178 of Blue-book), to the effect that a sum of nearly:£70,000 had already been spent on the foundations alone, that there had been a subsidence of the foundations which would endanger the superstructure proposed by Lord Curzon, that there is a growing public opinion in favour of abandoning the original design of a huge hall, and of using the balance of the sum subscribed in providing each province with memorials which, in the Maharaja's own words, shall be fountains of benevolence to the diseased and distressed amongst the poor of the people; whether, in view of this expression of opinion by a well-known representative of the people, he can see his way to postpone further prosecution of the original design pending a plebiscite of the subscribers as to the disposal of the funds in hand; and whether in the event of the Maharaja's proposal being accepted by the subscribers, he will take steps to give effect to it, if necessary, by legislation.

The exact sum subscribed to the Victoria Memorial Hall up to date is not known here. It was reported in 1903 to be about fifty lakhs of rupees (£333,333). The money is not held by Government, nor are the works on the Memorial being carried on by Government establishments. By an Act passed in 1903 the funds collected are vested in a body of trustees, who are charged with the erection, maintenance, and management of the Memorial. I have read the remarks of the Maharaja of Darbhanga referred to in the Question. They will doubtless receive the consideration of the trustees of the Memorial.

Can the right hon. Gentleman induce the Viceroy to give any indication that the Maharaja's representations shall receive attention?

Lala Lajpat Rai

I bog to ask the Secretary of State for India whether there is any source of information which directly connects Lala Lajpat Rai with allegations imputing the poisoning of wells and streams to the Government.

I am not aware of any such information, nor has the statement, so far as I know, been made that Lajpat Rai is connected with the allegations referred to.

For what crime has this gentleman been arrested and deported?

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he can specify any of the speeches of Lala Lajpat Rai which are greatly dominated by sedition and were published broadcast, even on the floor of this House.

The hon. Member's Question is based on an inaccurate report of what I said. As reported by the Morning Post, my words were:—

"I will not publish broadcast on the floor of this House language of the kind used by Ajit Singh, which can be reproduced afterwards with perfect impunity and scattered all over India. These malicious incitements to revolt I do not think I can be an instrument in disseminating."
This undoubtedly correctly represents the sense of what I said.

May I assume that the right hon. Gentleman did not state, as reported in The Times, that the speeches of Lala Lajpat Rai were greatly dominated by sedition, and were published broadcast, even on the floor of this House?

I wish the right hon. Gentleman to understand that these are the words that I used. I will not go beyond that.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman could now give the House a full list of those arrested in this summary way, and state their places of detention and the manner in which they were being treated. Were they being treated as first-class misdemeanants?

I think the hon. Member will see that that long and intricate Question requires notice.

I do not see how the Question arises out of the Question on the Paper, and I decline respectfully to answer it.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman could say whether these gentlemen were treated in the ordinary way as political prisoners or not.

asked whether they were to understand that Lala Lajpat Rai had not uttered any seditious speeches, nor suggested that the Government poisoned wells.

I have stated my view of these transactions. I do not quarrel with these Questions, but they do not arise out of the Question on the Paper.

Ajit Singh

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether Ajit Singh, who is a very young man of only twenty-three years of age, and has repeatedly made seditious speeches in Lahore and elsewhere without interference, received any warning from the authorities before it was decided to arrest him under the provisions of Regulation 3 of 1818.

I am not aware whether Ajit Singh had received any warning. But every man of the age of twenty-three must know that he makes seditious speeches at his peril.

New Hebrides Convention

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of MR. Deakin's statement, the Commonwealth was neither invited to submit proposals to the Conference, nor even informed of its nature or progress, or enabled to make an effective suggestion to its conclusions, or in fact was consulted in respect to it in any particular, it is proposed to review the New Hebrides Convention after consultation with the Governments of Australia and New Zealand.

The New Hebrides Convention was discussed with MR. Deakin and Sir J. Ward during the Colonial Conference. With regard to the conduct of the negotiations which led up to the Convention of the 20th October last, I have to refer the hon. and gallant Member to the Secretary of State's despatches of the 16th November and 7th March last.

May I ask if, in the face of MR. Deakin's words quoted in the Question, the right hon. Gentleman is prepared to qualify his statement that the Colonial Governments were fully consulted?

I do not think that is the exact expression I used. I should like an opportunity of looking them up, but so far as my recollection serves me I think there is no reason to modify what I said.

Opium Trade In Ceylon

I beg to ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that those members of the Legislative Council of Ceylon who represent nearly four millions of the inhabitants of the island are opposed to the present method of selling opium through shops licensed for that purpose, whilst the planting interest and the official members of the Council, who only represent 50,000 of the people, are in favour of the existing policy; and whether he will ask the representative of the Crown in Ceylon to take steps to suppress the sale of opium in that Colony.

The Secretary of State is in communication with the Governor of Ceylon as to the consumption of opium in that Colony and he is not in a position to make any statement at present. The subject matter of the hon. Member's Question shall be submitted to the Governor.

Defence Of European Settlement In Shanghai

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what force, naval, military, and police, is available at Shanghai for the defence of British merchants and of British trade.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS
(SIR EDWARD GREY, Northumberland, Berwick)

On December 31st last the force available for the defence of the European community in the international settlement at Shanghai was as follows:—Volunteers, forty-four officers and 930 non-commissioned officers and men. Police, European, 130; Indian, 201; Chinese, 753. In addition foreign warships of small draught can ascend the river as far as Shanghai, and larger ships can get to within fifteen miles of Shanghai. It frequently happens that one or more foreign warships are lying in the river.

Great Britain And Russia

On behalf of the hon. Member for Leicester, I bog to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his negotiations with Russia relate to matters other than boundaries, and are concerned with general political relationships.

The direct object of the negotiations is to prevent conflict and difficulties between the two Powers in the part of Asia which affects the Indian frontier and the Russian frontiers in that region. If these negotiations result in an agreement, it will deal only with those questions. What the indirect result will be as regards general political relationships must depend upon how such an agreement works in practice, and what effect it has upon public opinion in both countries.

Chinese Government And Mr Eadie

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that Mr. Edward Eadie, who was assaulted by Chinese on 18th June, 1906, is still without the compensation which was asked from the Chinese Government for him as an act of grace; and whether the said Mr. Eadie, who is still sick and in need of medical treatment, should accept the offer he has had from the Taotai of Amoy of payment of his medical expenses, or whether he should wait a further interval for such compensation as may be paid by the Chinese Government.

The Chinese authorities have agreed, as an act of grace, to pay a sum of 11,000 dollars in compensation for the injuries inflicted upon MR. Eadie and his companion, Dr. Home. Of this sum it is proposed that Dr. Home, who was much more seriously injured, should receive 10,000 dollars. Mr. Eadie will therefore receive a sum of 1,000 dollars.

Brussels Sugar Convention

I bog to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, if this country, while declining to enforce a penal clause against bounty-fed sugar, still adheres to the Brussels Convention, it will still be necessary for all sugar imported into this country to be accompanied by a certificate of origin; and whether it is proposed to ask this House to continue to provide part of the expenses of the Permanent Commission sitting in Brussels.

In the event of the other contracting States agreeing to exempt this country by supplementary protocol from the obligation to enforce the penal clause of the Sugar Convention, the question how far it would still be necessary or expedient to require imported sugar to be accompanied by a certificate of origin would receive careful consideration. So long as this country continued to take part in the modified Convention, it would naturally contribute its share of the expenses of the Permanent Commission, which are not considerable.

I bog to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government proposes to ask Parliament to repeal the Sugar Convention Act, 1903, and, failing such repeal, whether it will not be competent for His Majesty's present or future advisers at any time during the continuance of the Brussels Convention to prohibit by Order in Council the importation into this country of sugar which the Permanent Commission sitting in Brussels declares to be bounty-fed.

It is premature at present to consider the question of amending or repealing the Sugar Convention Act, and I therefore cannot deal with the legal point raised in the last part of the Question, which depends upon it.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the production of cane sugar in the West Indies and other parts of the world is appreciably increasing, and that our exports of confectionery in 1906 wore approximately 25 percent. higher than those of 1904 and 1905; and whether, under these circumstances, His Majesty's Government propose to risk the break up of the Sugar Convention and a reversal to the system of bounties and cartels.

I am aware that the total production of cane sugar has considerably increased in recent years (although this can scarcely be said of the production of the British West Indies taken as a whole) and that our exports of confectionery have also increased approximately as stated. As regards the last part of the Question, I have nothing to add to the statement I made to the House on the 6th instant† The risk involved in the course taken by His Majesty's Government is a matter of opinion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware that the manufacture of sugar in our Colonies leads to a large demand for the manufacture of machinery in this country for the industry in beet producing countries?

† See (4) Debates, clxxv., 838.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has information of any change of attitude to the Brussels Convention on the part of those foreign States who are favourable to it as it now stands consequent upon the modifications of the terms of the British adherence thereto; and whether in the interests of the sugar-refining industry and its allied and dependent trades, which wore adversely affected by the foreign bounty system and which are suffering by the prevailing uncertainty whether there will be a return to it, he will give the House, at the earliest moment, any information of which ho is or may become possessed of any impending change of position on the part of any of the signatory Powers.

The Answer to the first part of the Question is in the negative. I will boar in mind the hon. Member's suggestion, and shall be glad to give definite information when there is any, but I would remind him that no change will in any case take place before September, 1908."

Missing Camel Corps

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will state the circumstances under which certain members of a Camel Corps, which left Bir Natron Government post some six weeks ago, lost their way and perished in the desert; what were the numbers and composition of the corps; how many men are known to have lost their lives and how many are missing; and what steps were taken by the responsible authorities to succour and rescue them, and to notify the Egyptian public of their fate.

The latest information in my possession respecting this matter is that No. 2 Company Camel Corps, under Bimbashi Whittingham, left for Bir Natron during February, one section being intended to be stationed there and another at a post then not yet selected. It was anticipated that their presence there would serve as a deterrent to any future raiding and counter-raiding. I will make inquiries as to the points raised by the hon. Member.

France And Siam

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is now in a position to communicate to the House the terms of the recent treaty between France and Siam.

Unclaimed Funds And Old Age Pensions

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his attention has been called to the funds among the bankers of England representing unclaimed moneys; what is the approximate amount of such funds; and whether, as such moneys cannot be legally claimed by the bankers, he will consider the advisability of appropriating them on behalf of the State, and, after allowing a sufficient sum to meet any possible liabilities to possible claimants, to set aside the available balances for old-age pensions.

I have no statistics of the amount of unclaimed moneys in the hands of bankers or of other persons or institutions other than Government Departments. The question of appropriating such funds for public purposes has often been considered, but such investigation as has been possible has tended to show that the total amount in question is probably much smaller than is popularly supposed; and, in view of this fact and of the practical difficulties connected with the necessity which would arise for indemnifying those at present responsible to possible claimants against future claims, it has not been thought desirable to attempt to deal with the matter by legislation.

Unclaimed Dividends And Old Age Pensions

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the approximate amount of the sums in the hands of the Government arising from unclaimed dividends and other unclaimed moneys in the Bank of England; and whether he will consider the possibility of appropriating all or part of such unclaimed money for the purpose of old-age pensions.

The total nominal value of stock and cash in the hands of the National Debt Commissioners to the credit of the unclaimed stock and dividends account on the 31st March last was £1,841,986. This amount is not, in my opinion, in excess of a reasonable reserve against the liabilities to claimants.

Chancery Funds And Old Age Pensions

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can state the amount of the unclaimed money now held in the Court of Chancery; and whether he has considered the advisability of utilising such unclaimed moneys for the purpose of adding to the sum provided in the Budget for providing pensions for the aged poor.

The aggregate amount of dormant or unclaimed funds in Court (including the Court of Chancery) is stated in the last triennial list published as a supplement to the London Gazette of 1st March, 1905, to have been on that date less than £1,000,000, distributed over more than 3,300 separate accounts; and I do not think any appreciable contribution could be obtained from this source for the purpose which the hon. Member has in view.

Royal Patriotic Fund

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has received from the Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation any application for a Treasury grant of money in aid of the funds of the said corporation; and what answer has been returned.

An application was received in March last, and the reply of the Treasury was to the effect that, after considering the question in consultation with the War Office, they did not feel able to depart from a previous decision that they would not be justified in asking Parliament to provide by Vote any sum to supplement the present available resources of the fund.

Income Tax On Literary Prizes

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether income tax is at present charged on monetary prizes gained for literary work or otherwise; and whether the same rule will apply under the new Finance Bill if it becomes law.

The question is one of assessment, which has to be determined by the Commissioners of Income Tax with respect to the circumstances of particular cases, but a monetary prize in the form of a single payment would not, as a rule, be chargeable, unless the circumstances were such as to render it part of the profits of the profession or vocation of the winner. The rules in this matter will not be affected by the Finance Bill, except when a chargeable receipt may fall within the definition of earned income.

That is a matter for the Income Tax Commissioners. Each case is decided on its merits.

Consolidated Stock

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the £44,288 given in Return No. 155, just issued, is the total sum employed by the Treasury for the purchase of 2½ per cent. Consolidated Stock in the past financial year; and, if so, why a larger proportion of the sum available for the cancellation of the National Debt was not devoted to the purchase of this class of stock.

The sum of £44,288 given in the Return was the total sum applied out of the old and new Sinking Fund moneys to the cancellation of Consols in the last financial year. In the circumstances of the time, it was considered preferable to apply these funds mainly to the extinction of Unfunded Debt. Accordingly, Treasury Bills to the amount of £3,500,000 were paid off, and Exchequer Bonds to the amount of over £4,400,000 were bought and cancelled, in addition to the £1,000,000 of Exchequer Bonds drawn and redeemed under the scheme inaugurated by the right hon. Member for East Worcestershire. There were, however, other funds available for the reduction of Funded Debt during the year besides the old and new Sinking Funds, namely, the receipts in respect of Life Annuities, Redemption of Land Tax, the China Indemnity, and other miscellaneous items. Consols were cancelled with these receipts to the amount of £1,819,258, making the total reduction in the amount of Consols outstanding £1,871,165.

Pwllheli Land Tax Commissioners

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether a meeting of the Land Tax Commissioners for South Carnarvonshire, Pwllheli District, has been called; if so, why none of the recently appointed Commissioners received notice of the meeting; and, if the meeting did take place under the circumstances related, whether it is proposed to call another meeting to do the work entrusted to the Commissioners as a body.

I understand that the clerk to the Commissioners was unaware of his duties under the Act. A notification of them, which was sent to him as to all other clerks to Land Tax Commissioners, apparently failed to reach him, but this regrettable accident has now been rectified, and I have little doubt that the provisions of the Act will be complied with in future The last part of the Question is a matter for the decision of the Land Tax Commissioners themselves.

Secretary To The Board Of Customs

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury if he can state on what grounds the service of the Secretary of the Board of Customs has been extended beyond the usual period.

The officer in question has been entrusted with the execution of a particular duty which is approaching completion, and it has been found that the transfer of the work to another officer who is necessarily less familiar with it would be attended with inconvenience.

The Government And Messrs Kynoch

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can now state how many firms, and give their names, other than Messrs. Kynoch were found to be using a percentage of mercury in the manufacture of explosives; if he can state on what date these manufacturers ceased to manufacture these explosives; if he can state the number of pounds, if any, of such explosive these manufacturers had in their possession on such date; if he can state whether, in the public interest or in the interest of public safety, he has seized these explosives, or, if not, has he allowed them to go into use in the ordinary way.

One other firm—the National Explosives Company, not Messrs. Eley, as I was erroneously reported to have said the other day—is known to have used mercuric chloride in their explosives. I believe they ceased to do so towards the end of last year. I have no knowledge of the quantity of explosive which was then in their possession. At the present time a large quantity of explosive containing mercury, belonging to this firm, is under seizure.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the magazine at Cardiff belonging to Messrs. Kynoch, licensed for 30,0001bs. of explosives, held 23,000lbs. when seized; if of this 23,0001bs. only very little contains the ingredient complained of; whether under the terms of the seizure the magazine is and has been since the date of the seizure devoted to the use of the Secretary of State, and cannot be utilised by Messrs. Kynoch for storage purposes; and whether, in view of the dislocation of trade caused by the Home Office action, he can see his way to allow the explosives in this magazine, other than the particular explosives complained of, to be put into use in the ordinary way.

23,000lbs. of explosive were seized in the magazine mentioned. Mercuric chloride was found by His Majesty's Inspectors in several samples taken from this magazine, but they are unable to say in what proportion of the whole the ingredient is present, as necessarily only samples were examined. Messrs. Kynoch are not prohibited from using the magazine up to the limit of quantity allowed by the licence; and there remains therefore a surplus of licensed capacity at their disposal. The inconvenience, if any, to Messrs. Kynoch's trade is not due to the action of my Department, inasmuch as the case in connection with this magazine would have been disposed of several months ago but for the postponements which Messrs. Kynoch have themselves obtained. In these circumstances, the whole of the explosive must, I fear, remain under seizure until the matter is settled.

asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he would consider the advisability either of taking Messrs. Kynoch's assurances as regarded the explosives which were in this magazine or of having the matter tested so that the explosive which did not contain the unauthorised ingredient could be used.

Has the right hon. Gentleman not read the letter forwarded to his Department as far back as 13th May by Messrs. Kynoch's solicitors?

The correspondence is becoming voluminous, but I do not quite see how Messrs. Kynoch's assurances that this explosive, or part of it, may be safe bears on the point of the action taken by my Department, which is that samples taken from this particular magazine showed that a large part of the explosive in the magazine contained mercury, and, in my judgment, it is clearly impossible to allow that explosive to be taken from that magazine.

asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he could say when this matter would be settled one way or the other.

I should be very glad to settle it at once, but Messrs. Kynoch have resorted to the law, and I am not in a position to settle it.

asked whether it was not a fact that, in the letter to which he had referred, Messrs. Kynoch stated that there was a certain amount of the explosive in this magazine containing the ingredient which the Home Office complained of, but that there was also in the magazine a very large amount of explosive which, they assured the Home Office, had not been treated in the same way, and whether they asked the Home Office to allow them to use that portion and not to lock up the explosive which was manufactured in accordance with the licence of the Home Office.

I think the hon. Member is correct, but the whole case is still under the consideration of the Court, and by the judgment of the Court, as far as it has gone, all this cordite is liable to seizure. The question cannot be determined until the legal proceedings are concluded.

Is it not the fact that the whole case before the Court at the present time is whether or not Messrs. Kynoch used in the manufacture of certain cordite an unauthorised ingredient; and what I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman is whether, while the appeal of Messrs. Kynoch as regards the unauthorised cordite is pending, they are to be made to suffer by having the cordite which does not contain any unauthorised ingredient also seized by the Home Office?

I do not think the hon. Member has stated the case quite accurately. Messrs. Kynoch admit, as I understand, that there was a certain amount of mercuric chloride in this explosive. Their point now is that the amount of mercury is so small as to be innocuous. Our contention is that any mercury put into this explosive is against the law and renders the explosive dangerous.

asked whether the 23,000lbs. which the Government were now impounding was safe while it was there.

As the hon. Member is aware, magazines are only authorised under certain conditions, and, though it is not very pleasant to have an explosion in a magazine, if it does occur it is reasonably safe, and the prescribed distance practically secures safety to life and limb.

asked whether, in view of the fact that the complaint only referred to a certain portion of the explosive in this magazine, the Home Office had authority to remove that portion of the explosive, and thereby free the magazines for the general business of the company.

said he could not add anything to the Answer he had given to the supplementary Question of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dublin University.

Workmen's Compensation Act—Women Referees

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has taken, or will take, into consideration the propriety of appointing some women medical referees under the Workmen's Compensation Act which comes into force on the 1st July, especially in cases or districts where women are largely employed.

I am not aware that any necessity for such appointments has been found to exist under the Act of 1897, which applied to a large number of women employed in factories, but I shall be glad to take the matter into consideration.

London Police Best Day

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether he has now prepared the detailed statement and estimate to which he referred on the 26th November last, showing the effect of granting one day's rest in seven to the Metropolitan Police; and, if so, will he lay it upon the Table.

I think it will be most convenient if I give these details in the form of a printed answer, and this I shall be happy to do if my hon. friend will put down an unstarred question for one day next week.

Edalji Trial

On behalf of the hon. Member for the Walton Division of Liverpool, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the Edalji Committee were informed that notes of the trial had been taken by the deputy chairman, and that the Home Office had thought it worth while to require such notes for inspection; whether such notes contain the most authentic and reliable account of the proceedings which is in existence; and whether in fact they were found useful by the Home Office.

Sir Arthur Wilson and his colleagues were aware that the deputy chairman's notes has been sent to the Home Office and that they had been returned to him. The notes were of course authentic and reliable: but they were abbreviated and somewhat fragmentary, and though most useful to anyone who had heard the evidence for the purpose of refreshing his memory, were not in my opinion of great use to anyone who had to master the facts of the case for the first time.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department on what principle compensation has been given in previous instances to persons to whom a free pardon has not been given, whereas in the case of Edalji a free pardon has been given, but compensation has been withheld.

Each case has been considered on its merits. In a few instances small sums have been given by my predecessors by way of compassionate grant where the circumstances of the case did not appear to justify the grant of a free pardon. Such cases have, however, been wholly exceptional and do not establish any principle on which a claim for compensation could be based.

Grimsby Immigration Case

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that the husband of Monita Czeplowski, a woman who was rejected last March by the Grimsby Immigration Board on the ground, amongst Others, that her husband could not be found, is residing at New Ortiston, Scotland, is anxious to have his wife restored to him, and able to support her; and whether he can undertake that if Monita Czeplowski, while not suffering from any dangerous infectious disease, again attempts to rejoin her husband she shall not be denied admittance under the Aliens Act.

I have no information to the effect of the first part of the Question, and in no case could I give any such undertaking as that which is suggested in the latter part. The admission or rejection of alien immigrants does not rest with me but with the immigration authorities at the ports. I may remind my hon. and gallant friend that the woman was found in March to be suffering from trachoma in an advanced and dangerous stage, and I am unable to agree with the view which he then expressed that aliens suffering from dangerous and contagious diseases ought to be admitted to this country.

If I furnish the right hon. Gentleman with evidence as to the whereabouts of the man and showing that the woman is not suffering from a dangerous infectious disease, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance she shall be enabled to join her husband?

The hon. and gallant Member is, I think, as well acquainted with the Aliens Act as I am, and he must know that the decision rests not with me, but with the Immigration Board.

Tobacco Stripping Industry

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he can give any information which will show approximately the number of persons employed in stripping tobacco leaves in manufactories in the United Kingdom in March, 1906, and in March, 1907. I beg also to ask the President of the Board of Trade what are the respective values and quantities of stripped and unstripped tobacco leaves imported into the United Kingdom during the year ending 31st March, 1906, and for the year ending 31st March, 1907.

The Board of Trade are unable to give the information asked for in the hon. Member's first

Statement showing the quantity and value of unmanufactured tobacco imported into the United Kingdom during each of the years ended 31st March, 1906 and 1907, distinguishing between stemmed and unstemmed tobacco.
Tobacco, Unmanufactured.Quantity Imported.Value of Imports.
1905–6.1906–7.1905–6.1900–7.
lbs.lbs.££
Stemmed12,170,00026,392,000355,000823,000
Unstemmed75,837,00087,563,0001,971,0002,312,000

Note.—The value is stated exclusive of duty.

Registration Of Steamships

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the fact that the International Mercantile Marine Company, which has its head office at Hoboken, New Jersey, U. S A., owns or controls the following steamship lines, the White Star, Red Star, American, Leyland, Atlantic Transport, and Dominion, he will explain why the Board of Trade Shipping Returns include the White Star among the British ships without any note or explanation.

As explained to the hon. Member in an Answer which my right hon. friend gave to a Question by him on the 27th May, all vessels registered as British are classed as such in the compilation of the official Shipping Returns. This is the general practice of all maritime countries. The vessels of the White Star Line are registered British vessels. Possibly the hon. Member would profit by a careful perusal of the agreement embodied in the Parliamentary Paper Cd. 1704.

asked if it were not the fact that the International Mercantile Marine and the White Star Line were entirely controlled by British subjects living in this country.

[No Answer was returned.]

Question. I will have the particulars asked for in the second Question printed in the Votes.

The particulars referred to were as follows:—

Cost Of Sugar Production

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he has any information relative to the cost of production of sugar in Germany, France, and other Continental countries; and, if so, will he lay such information before the House.

The Board of Trade are not able to give any official figures on this subject. The cost of production of sugar or any other commodity in different countries varies according to methods and sale of production, and other considerations.

Colonial Chambers Of Commerce And The Sugar Convention

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether any representations have been received by His Majesty's Government in favour of the continuance of the Sugar Convention from chambers of commerce in different parts of the Empire; and, if so, from what chambers of commerce?

No representations in favour of the continuance of the Sugar Convention have been received by the Board of Trade from any chamber of commerce in the United Kingdom, but I am informed by the Colonial Office that such representations have reached them from various chambers of commerce in the Colonies, a list of which they can give if desired.

Cowper-Temple Clause

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether he will make compliance with the Cowper-Temple clause (Section 14 of the Education Act, 1870) one of the conditions to be fulfilled by all public elementary council schools in order to obtain a Parliamentary grant, or whether he will at once take some other steps to obtain the power of enforcing strict obedience to this clause on the part of all local education authorities.

On my reading of the Code the Board already have power to make compliance with the Cowper-Temple clause a condition for the receipt of Parliamentary grants.

Great Crosby Halsall Girls' School

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education, on what grounds he refuses permission to the trustees of the Great Crosby Halsall Girls' School to utilise their funds in extending the girls' and infants' school on plans which have been approved by the Lancashire education authority; and what scheme is now under his consideration for utilising the funds to a better purpose than the extension of the schools.

The Board informed the trustees of the Great Crosby Halsall Girls' School on the 25th May that as at present advised they were not prepared to entertain proposals for an expenditure of the capital funds of the endowment upon the extension of the premises of the elementary school of the foundation. A scheme for the reorganisation of this endowment is now in course of preparation, and I hope very shortly to be in a position to give directions for a draft to be communicated for the information of the trustees of the foundation and the local education authority with a view to its subsequent publication in the locality under the provisions of the Charitable Trusts Acts. It will be the duty of the Board to consider any objec- tions or suggestions that may be made to them by any parties interested. I consider that at the present stage of the proceedings it would be premature to make any further statement in the matter.

Registration Of British Trawlers

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in view of the fact that it is the practice of British owned trawlers to register their vessels under a foreign flag for the purpose of evading British laws, will the question of rendering such action illegal be considered by the delegates attending the International North Sea Conference which is about to be opened.

The work of the International Council for the exploration of the sea, which is now meeting in London, is purely scientific in character, and the question to which my hon. friend refers is not likely, therefore, to come forward for consideration.

Teachers' Superannuation

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether the Report of the actuary upon the operation of the Teachers' Superannuation Act will be ready before the Education (Scotland) Bill is proceeded with; and whether it will deal separately with the funds for England and Scotland, respectively.

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT
(Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL, Yorkshire, Cleveland)

My right hon. friend has asked me to answer his Question for him. There is some doubt as to whether this Report will be ready as is suggested; and, so far as his information goes, it is not in a state sufficiently advanced to enable him to reply to the hon. Gentleman's latter Question.

Island Of Lewis Cottars

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland if he will consider the expediency of asking the Lewis District Committee to submit a list of cottars and others resident in the townships in the Island of Lewis who would be willing to migrate to the mainland if the Congested Districts Board arranged reasonable aid for their settlement.

As my right hon. friend has already informed my hon. friend on previous occasions, any proposals made to the Congested Districts Board will receive their careful consideration.

Dwellings In Congested Districts

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland, in view of the fact that under Clause 6 of the Small Landowners (Scotland) Bill, now before Parliament, it is proposed to enable the Congested Districts Board to improve or rebuild dwelling-houses and other buildings in congested districts, will he consider the expediency of arranging for the Board to be provided with additional funds so as to enable the Board to put into effect any such new powers.

If it is found by experience that the monies provided are not sufficient for their purpose and should be increased, the matter shall certainly be considered.

Irish Agricultural Department

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Committee appointed to inquire into the working of the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction has yet made its Report to the Lord-Lieutenant; and, if so, what is the reason for the delay in laying it upon the Table of the House, as was promised would be done when the Report was received.

The Report of the majority of the Commissioners has now been received, but, as I have already informed the House, a minority Report is also to be presented. It seems desirable that the two Reports should be laid before the House at the same time. I am assured that the minority Report will be submitted in the course of next week, and I will then have both Reports presented to Parliament without delay.

Lord Ventry's Estate

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland if he is aware that at a meeting of Lord Ventry's tenants on his county Kerry estates a resolution was passed on the advice of Mr. William O'Brien, rural district councillor, pledging themselves to pay no rent until Lord Ventry had agreed to sell to them; and if the Government will support Lord Ventry against such intimidation.

I am informed that a meeting of Lord Ventry's tenants was held on 19th May, but that no resolution of the nature indicated in the Question was passed. Mr. O'Brien, however, is reported to have said that if Lord Ventry should not sell the tenants need not pay. If any protection to Lord Ventry in the exercise of his legal rights should hereafter become necessary, the police will, of course, afford such protection, as they do in all cases.

Why cannot this noble Lord sell his estates to the tenants under the best Land Act ever passed by the House of Commons in the interests of the Irish landlords?

[No Answer was returned.]

Land Law (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he proposes to submit to the Standing Committee B any Amendments to the Land Law (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill; and whether he proposes to give notice of them at an early date, in order that Members of the Committee may have due opportunity of considering them.

As the hon. Baronet is aware, the Bill referred to is not a Government measure. If the Government should decide to propose any Amendments due notice will be given, and hon. Members will have full opportunity of considering them.

Unrest In Ireland

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that certain powers contained in The Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act, 1887, such as the power to hold a preliminary inquiry, the summary jurisdiction powers, the power to enrol special jurors and to remove the venue of trial, have long formed part of the ordinary law of Scotland; and whether, in view of the present difficulty of maintaining order in Ireland, he will cause such parts of the Irish Act as are identical with Scottish law to be put in force immediately.

The Government still have confidence in the ordinary law, properly and impartially administered. There are several prosecutions for offences connected with grazing lands pending for the Assizes which will be held next month. The Attorney-General intends to prosecute in person in at all events some of these cases; and in these circumstances the Government do not propose, as at present advised, to take the course suggested in the Question.

asked whether the Government had confidence that the law would be properly and impartially administered.

We still have confidence in the ordinary law, properly and impartially administered.

asked whether, if these prosecutions resulted in disagreement and miscarriage of justice, the Government would take further measures.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see that the panels for those trials are composed entirely of Hottentots?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the Irish Coercion Act referred to by the noble Lord was under debate in this House the late Mr. J. B. Balfour stated that no similar power existed in Scotland, and that as an ex-Lord Advocate he did not think those who had taken part in the administrations of the criminal law would tolerate such a practice as that of examining on oath persons in respect of a crime for which no one was being charged.

I have not had an opportunity of confirming that, but no doubt the statement is characterised by the usual accuracy of the hon. Member.[Ironical laughter.] Well, I think the hon. Member is usually very accurate.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether a circular has been issued to Crown solicitors in certain disturbed districts in Ireland, instructing them not to press for punishment by imprisonment, but for a rule of bail only, in certain cases connected with agrarian offences.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Congested Districts Board and the Estates Commissioners are making overtures in the West of Ireland for the purchase of grass lands which the owners are unable to stock owing to the disturbed state of the country; whether it has come to his knowlege that, in consequence of the action of the United Irish League and similar agencies, these lands have considerably depreciated in value; and whether he will instruct the Estates Commissioners and the Congested Districts Board that they are to cease from taking advantage of the present agrarian disturbance by endeavouring to purchase from the embarrassed owners lands thus artificially reduced below their fair market value.

The more of the grass lands in the West of Ireland that the Congested Districts Board and the Estates Commissioners are able to buy the better pleased I shall be. I have no information that any such lands have depreciated in value for the reasons alleged in the Question. In estimating the price which they may offer for a particular property, neither the Board nor the Commissioners are influenced by any such consideration as is mentioned in the concluding part of the Question. They offer what they consider to be the value of the land for the purposes entrusted to them by Parliament, and this is ascertained by inspection of the land itself.

Mr P J Kelly, Jp

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that Mr. P. J. Kelly, a justice of the peace, at a meeting held at New Inn, county Galway, a few days ago, speaking of Lord Ashtown, who has incurred the displeasure of the United Irish League and is under constant and strict police protection, said that if he (Lord Ashtown) was living in the neighbourhood of Killenadeema or Loughrea they would have had him on a stretcher long ago, the same as John Blake (who was shot dead in Loughrea in 1883), but that the men of Woodlawn had not the courage or manliness to treat him as they should; whether Kelly will be prosecuted for this incitement to murder; and whether he will at once be removed from the magistracy.

Mr. Kelly's speech is at present under the consideration of the Government.

Lisburn Labourers' Cottage Rents

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he is aware that the Lisburn Rural Council have raised the rent of labourers' cottages in the Hillsborough part of the Lisburn Rural District from Is. weekly to 2s. 6d., and have served notice to quit on all tenant labourers who have refused to pay this increased rent; if this course has been adopted to discourage further applications under the Labourers Acts, and if the Irish Local Government Board will intervene in the matter.

According to the records of the Local Government Board, the Lisburn Rural District Council have resolved to raise the rents of labourers' cottages, but not to the extent stated in the Question. The council propose to raise rents of Is. 6d. a week to 2s. and rents of Is. 9d. to 2s. 6d. The Local Government Board have no information as to the reasons which may have influenced the council in adopting this course, but are about to communicate with the council on the subject.

Toomebridge Petty Sessions Clerk

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland whether be is aware that William Ellis, who is petty sessions clerk of Toomebridge, county Antrim, also holds the following positions: postmaster of Toomebridge, manager of Toome and Kilree eel fishery, manager of Killsegour Mines, Toome, land agent for Miss Jones, Moneyglass estate, land agent for Lady Spencer, Castledawson estate, and a contractor for sand; whether he is absent from Toome on Wednesdays in connection with the Kilree eel fishery, and on Saturday in each week in connection with others of his offices; and discharges some of his duties as petty sessions clerk by deputy; and whether he proposes to take any action in the matter.

I find that a similar Question as to this petty sessions clerk was answered on 26th July last† by my predecessor, who had fully inquired into the matter. The facts are as stated in the Question, save that the clerk does not perform any of his duties by deputy. The petty sessions are held but once a month, and consequently the duties of the clerk are light and the salary proportionately small. The registrar of petty sessions clerks has satisfied himself by personal inspection that the clerk properly performs his duties, and no complaint to the contrary has been made by the public. In these circumstances no action appears to be called for.