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Commons Chamber

Volume 178: debated on Monday 15 July 1907

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House Of Commons

Monday, 15th July, 1907.

Private Bill Business

Provisional Order Bills Lords (Standing Orders Applicable Thereto Complied With)

MR. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bills, originating in the Lords, and referred on the First Reading thereof, the Standing Orders which are applicable thereto have been complied with, viz.: —Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 1) Bill [Lords]; Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill [Lords].

Ordered, That the Bills be read a second time To-morrow.

PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS [LORDS] (NO STANDING ORDERS APPLICABLE).

MR. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bill, originating in the Lords, and referred on the. First Reading thereof, no Standing Orders are applicable, viz.: —Pier and Harbour Provisional Order (No. 1) Bill [Lords].

Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time To-morrow.

Leeds Corporation Bill.—Lords' Amendments considered, and agreed to.

Devonport Corporation Bill [Lords].—Read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

London County Council (General Powers) Bill (Prince of Wales' Consent signified). Bill read the third time, and passed.

Tees Valley Water (Consolidation) Bill [Lords] (King's Consent signified). —Bill read the third time, and passed with Amendments.

Ashton-under-Lyne, Stalybridge, and Dukinfield (District) Waterworks Bill [Lords].—As amended, considered; Amendments made; Bill to be read the third time.

Great Yarmouth Waterworks and Lowestoft Water and Gas Bill [Lords]. —As amended, considered; to be read the third time.

Portishead District Water Bill [Lords]. —Read a second time, and committed.

Portobello and Musselburgh Tramways (Levenhall Extension) Order Confirmation Bill [Lords].—Considered; to be read the third time upon Wednesday.

Humber Conservancy Bill [Lords].— Reported, with Amendments; Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

Private Bills (Group G)

SIR HENRY KIMBER reported from the Committee on Group G of Private Bills; That, for the convenience of parties concerned, the Committee had adjourned until Monday next, at half-past Two of the Clock.

Report to lie upon the Table.

Message From The Lords

That they have agreed to: —London United Tramways Bill, without Amendment.

Amendments to: —King Edward's Hospital Fund for London Bill [Lords]; Heywood and Middleton Water Board Bill [Lords], without Amendment.

That they have passed a Bill intituled, "An Act to enable Provisional Orders to be made for regulating Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries." [Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Bill [Lords.]

Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade under the General Pier and Harbour Act, 1861, relating; to Tralee and Fenit and Wicklow." [Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill [Lords.]

And, also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm a Provisional Order made by the Board of Trade under the General Pier and Harbour Act, 1861, relating to Southwold." [Pier and Harbour Provisional Order (No. 4) Bill [Lords.]

Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill [Lords].—Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 277.]

Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 4) Bill [Lords].—Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 278.]

Returns, Reports, Etc

Army

Copy presented, of Report of the Conference appointed to examine the Shops and Machinery at Woolwich Arsenal (except Danger Buildings and Torpedo Factory) in order to consider whether any article not now made in the Ordnance Factories can appropriately be made there with this Machinery [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Army

Copy presented, of Statement of Principles to be kept in view in training the Territorial Force and the Special Contingent [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Army (Pay, Non-Effective Pay And Allowances)

Copy presented, of List of Exceptions to the Army Regulations as to Pay, Non-effective Pay, and Allowances sanctioned during the year 1906–7 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Army (Militia)

Copy presented, of Further Regulations relating to the Militia [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

Army Reserve

Copy presented, of Further Regulations relating to the Army Reserve [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

Employment Of Children Act, 1903 (Bye-Laws)

Return presented, relative thereto [Address, 25th June; Mr. Tennant]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 249.]"

Government Factories And Workshops Committee

Copy presented, of Report of the Government Factories and Workshops Committee [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Pacific Cable Act, 1901

Account presented, showing the Money issued from the Consolidated Fund under the provisions of The Pacific Cable Act, 1901, and of the Money received, expended, and borrowed, and Securities created under the said Act, to 31st March, 1907, together with a Copy of the Report of the Chairman of the Pacific Cable Board [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 250.]

Superannuation Act, 1887

Copy presented, of Treasury Minute dated 2nd July, 1907, granting to Hugo Meyer, later Counter Clerk and Telegraphist, Post Office, a retiring allowance under the Act [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

Post Office (Foreign And Colonial Post)

Copy presented, of the Foreign and Colonial Post Amendment (No. 17) Warrant, 1907, dated 24th June, 1907, [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

Post Office (Foreign And Colonial Parcel Post)

Copy presented, of the Foreign and Colonial Parcel Post Amendment (No. 7) Warrant, 1907, dated 24th June, 1907 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

Treaty Series (No 18, 1907)

Copy presented, of General Index to Treaty Series, 1902–6 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Trade Reports (Annual Series)

Copy presented, of Diplomatic and Consular Report, Annual Series, No. 3857 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

Questions And Answers Circulated With The Votes

Position Of Mr Maull, Sub-Postmaster At Kingstnon-Thames

To ask the Postmaster General whether Mr. S. Maull, stationer, of Clarence Street, Kingston-on-Thames, was authorised, in the year 1898, to open a sub-post office at that address, and has since carried on such office to the satisfaction of the postal authorities; whether, at the time of his appointment, Mr. Maull informed the authorities that he was acting as local secretary to the National Deposit Friendly Society, but no objection was then taken on that ground; whether he has recently been required to resign his position on the ground that he holds the same office of local secretary to the above society; whether a petition for his continuance as postmaster has been signed by a large number of tradesmen and residents, and forwarded to the Postmaster-General; and whether he will inquire into the circumstances and will consider whether it is possible to retain Mr. Maull in an office which he has held without objection for nine years. (Answered by Mr. Sydney Buxton.) This matter has already been brought to my attention and was receiving my consideration. In all the circumstances of the case I have decided to allow Mr. Maull to withdraw his resignation on the understanding that he ceases to hold an agency for a life insurance company.

Sea Training Of Boys In The Navy

To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what proportion the boys sent to the Nore Division of the Home Fleet for their seagoing training under the present system bear to those sent to the other divisions and to the fourth cruiser squadron of that fleet; and whether he will state what proportion the boys sent to the Nore Division bear to the normal numbers allowed by the complement of ships of that class. (Answered by MR. Edmund Robertson.) All youths on completing their shore training are sent to the battleships of the Nore division of the Home Feet for sea-going training. On completing their training at Shotley and in the "Impregnable," all boys undergo their sea-going training in the fourth cruiser squadron; but, while waiting embarkation, those from Shotley (about 50 per cent. of the total number entered) go to the fifth cruiser squadron, and those from the "Impregnable" (about 30 per cent.) to the Devonport division of the Home Fleet. The advanced class (about 20 per cent.) remain in the "Impregnable" to await draft to the fourth cruiser squadron. The number of boys borne in the fifth cruiser squadron exceeds the normal boy complements by from five to eight per ship; and the number of youths in the battleships of the Nore division has been as much as twenty in excess of the normal boy complements.

Sale Of The Singleton Estate, Drogheda

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in the negotiations for the sale of the Singleton estate, Mell, Drogheda, it is proposed by the landlord to reserve a portion of the property; and whether, in this case, the landlord will be entitled to the bonus under the Act. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) In the proceedings for sale of this estate, which have been instituted before the Estates Commissioners, the owner proposes to exclude from the sale a portion of the property which appears to consist mainly of residential holdings. The proposed exclusion will be inquired in to when the estate is being inspected. If the Commissioners should sanction the advances applied for a bonus would be payable.

Discussion Of Scottish Estimates

To ask the Prime Minister whether he will arrange to give another day for the discussion of the Scottish Estimates, so that the local affairs of Scotland may be Considered. (Answered by Sir H. Campbell-Banner-man.) I am afraid it will not be possible to provide an opportunity.

The Channel Fleet

To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the relative strength of the Channel Fleet in 1906 as compared with the present time was in battleships seventeen to fourteen, and in armoured cruisers six to four; and whether the total force in all classes in 1906 was sixty-seven as against twenty-one in 1907. (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The Answer to both. Questions is in the affirmative. In the total of sixty-seven vessels belonging in 1906 to the Channel Fleet were included the "Sapphire," "Tyne," three scouts, and thirty-six destroyers, which, as I have already stated, were transferred with full crews to the Home Fleet, and are always available for exercise with the Channel Fleet, us was recently the case.

To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what length of notice would be necessary to enable the Channel Fleet to be fully manned and equipped for active service, and, if necessary, for action; and what would be the available strength in vessels of all types and in men upon an emergency summons, if issued at the present time. (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The Channel Fleet is now fully manned and equipped for active service, and, if necessary, for action. The available strength is shown on page 269 of the current issue of the Navy List; but the first cruiser squadron, the "New Zealand," "Triumph," and "Juno," are absent from the flag. All have full crews except the "Juno," which recommissions to-morrow, July 16th.

To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what are the names, tonnage, and engine capacity of the scouts and torpedo craft attached to and permanently incorporated with the Channel Fleet; whether all such vessels are ready for active service; and whether they or any and which of them have at any time, and, if so, when, taken part in manoœuvres as portion of the Channel Squadron or Fleet. (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The torpedo craft with their attendant scouts which have full crews will be found on page 270 of the Navy List; these are ready for sea and are available for service with the Channel Fleet when required. Details of torpedo craft and scouts with four-fifth crews will be found on page, 270a of the Navy List. Their tonnage and horse-power will be found in the body of the Navy List and also in the Return of Fleets. In April, four scouts, two torpedo gunboats, twelve destroyers, and one torpedo boat took part in exercises with the Channel Fleet; and in June and July, three scouts and forty destroyers were similarly employed.

Manœuvres Of Channel, Mediterranean, And Atlantic Squadrons

To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty on how many occasions and when the Channel, Mediterranean, and Atlantic Squadrons, or any two of them, have, during the last five years, manœuvred together, and whether under one commander; if so, under whose command were such manœuvres carried out. (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The information desired is as follows: —July, 1902.—Channel, Home and Cruiser Squadrons. Combined operations in the Channel. Under Vice-Admiral, Channel Squadron.September,1902.—Mediterranean, Channel and Cruiser Squadrons. Combined exercises in the Mediterranean. Under Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean.August, 1903.—Mediterranean, Home and Channel Fleets and Cruiser Squadrons. Manœuvres and tactical exercises in the Atlantic. Under Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean.May, 1904. — Mediterranean and Channel Fleets and Cruiser Squadron. Exercises in the Mediterranean. Under Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean.August, 1904.—Home and Channel Fleets and Cruiser Squadron. Combined tactical exercises in Home waters. Under Commander-in-Chief, Home Fleet.August, 1905.—Mediterranean and Atlantic Fleets. Combined battle exercises at Lagos. Under Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean.February, 1906.—Channel, Atlantic, and Mediterranean, with attendant Cruiser Squadrons. Combined exercises at Lagos. Under Commander-in-Chief, Channel Fleet.June andJuly, 1906. —Grand Manœuvres. Channel, Atlantic, and Mediterranean Fleets, with Cruiser Squadrons, were engaged in combined manœuvres, the Channel and Mediterranean Fleets being opposed to the Atlantic, each side under its own Commander-in-Chief.February, 1907.—Channel, Atlantic, and Mediterranean Fleets, with attendant Cruiser Squadrons. Combined exercises at Lagos. Under Commander-in-Chief, Channel Fleet.

Shortage Of Officers In London Yeomanry Regiments

To ask the Secretary of State for War if he can state what is the shortage of commissioned officers in the London Yeomanry regiments now going into camp for their annual training. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) The shortage of commissioned officers in the regiments mentioned amounts to twenty-six.

Arming Of Essex Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers)

To ask the Secretary of State for War, how much, if any, of the Essex Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) have been allotted to moveable armament; whether the guns of moveable armament have been removed from Grays; if it is proposed to transfer two 15-pounder breech-loading guns from Romford, leaving a company which usually parades seventy strong with only two guns; and, if so, how many 15-pounder breech-loading guns are available from other sources. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) Eight companies and one heavy battery of the 1st Essex Royal Garrison Artillery Volunteers are allotted to moveable armaments. The distribution of the guns rests with the General Officer Commanding concerned. The numbers cannot be increased.

Connecting Post Offices By Telephones

To ask the Postmaster-General whether he will, as quickly as possible, connect up every post office in the Kingdom by telephone. (Answered by Mr. Sydney Buxton.) A large number of post offices are con- nected with the telephone system, either as call offices or for the receipt and despatch of telegrams and express letters, and the number is being increased from day to day as opportunity offers. In many cases, however, there would be no advantage in connecting post offices with the telephone system proportionate to the very considerable expenditure involved in providing the necessary telephone lines. Ordinary telegraph circuits either cannot be used at all or only to a very limited extent for telephone purposes.

The Companies Bill

To ask the President of the Board of Trade upon what date it is proposed to proceed with the Companies Bill. (Answered by Mr. Kearley.) I cannot give the hon. Member any exact date, but my right hon. friend still hopes to proceed with the Companies Bill this session.

Board Of Education—Functions Of The New Medical Board

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Education if he can state the nature and work of the medical board whit h it is proposed to form in connection with his Department; what will be the number of doctors which will compose that board; how many of them will be women; and whether their duties will be of a purely advisory character. (Answered by Mr. Lough.) When the duty of medical inspection of children in public elementary schools has been imposed by statute upon local education authorities, the Board of Education propose to establish a medical staff to assist them in advising local education authorities in regard to certain points arising under the Bill, to collect and correlate the information obtained through the medical inspection carried out by the authorities, and to issue periodical Reports based upon that information. In making appointments regard will, of course, be had to the possession of special knowledge of such branches of medicine as bear upon the medical treatment of children, hygiene, public health, including sanitation, and kindred subjects. It would be premature to enter into greater detail at the present time.

Revision Of The Records Of Orissa

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been called to the statement made in the Bengal Administration Report for 1905–6 to the effect that it has been decided to have a general revision of the records of Orissa done by a paid staff under the control of the settlement officer; whether he is aware that the settlement of Orissa was effected ten years ago for the ensuing thirty years; whether this revision of records is ordered in contemplation of an earlier revision of the existing settlement; and, if not, whether he will explain why it is proposed to subject tenants, landlords, and Government ryots to vexatious inquiries until the time arrives for undertaking a new settlement of this part of India. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Morley.) For some years proposals have been under consideration for keeping up to date the record-of-rights prepared at great expense in the last resettlement of the temporary settled districts at Orissa. It has now been decided to provide for the continuous maintenance of the record by means of a permanent staff of revenue inspectors such as exists in other provinces. As a preliminary to this, it is proposed that the entries in the record-of-rights of each; village shall be corrected where necessary and brought up to date by a settlement officer and a suitable staff. The land revenue will not be revised and the term for which the assessments have been sanctioned will not be disturbed. A correct record of proprietary and tenancy rights has been found in Bengal and elsewhere to be beneficial to owners and occupiers of land. It is not anticipated that the revisional operations will be vexatious to the people. Similar operations have been carried out in other districts without such consequences.

Belfast Labour Dispute And Poor Law Belief

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieu- tenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the increase in the number of provisional admissions into the Belfast workhouse in consequence of the labour dispute now existing in that city, and the extra expense involved to the ratepayers thereby; whether he is aware that; a number of cases were refused admission on the sole ground that they were victims of the dispute; and whether the Local Government Board will issue any instructions to the guardians in this matter. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) The Local Government Board have ascertained from the clerk of the Belfast union that there has been some increase in the number of provisional admissions to the workhouse, and this increase has been attributed to the local labour dispute. The chairman of the admission committee has represented that in no case has admission been refused on the ground that the application was the result of the labour dispute, but all applications have been dealt with on their merits in the ordinary course. The Local Government Board do not propose to interfere with the responsibility and discretion of the guardians in the matter.

Questions In The House

Contracts For Submarines

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty how many submarines have been ordered since the present Government came into office; to what firm or firms have the orders been given; were competitive tenders invited in each or any ease; and, if not, how many firms were invited to tender in each case; and was the sanction of the Treasury obtained before a departure from the usual practice was adopted.

Seven submarines have been ordered from Messrs. Vickers, and two have been commenced at Chatham, since the present Government came into office. In accordance with the practice hitherto adopted by successive Boards of Admiralty in regard to this special class of vessel, and continued after due consideration by the present Board, no competitive tenders were obtained. Treasury sanction was not required.

But did not the Public Accounts Committee find that the sanction of the Treasury was necessary?

*

They made a recommendation to that effect, which will, of course, be carefully considered.

Is it not the case that the cost of each submarine is very greatly increased by this system of secret contracting with private firms?

was understood to reply in the negative, and to point out that the Admiralty could make comparisons with the cost of similar works in the dockyard.

*

Channel Fleet

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the Channel Fleet now has its full complement of fourteen battleships assembled; and, if so, on what date the full number was reached.

Mobilisation Of Ships Of War

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty on how many occasions has it been proved by experiment that the eleven battleships and ten cruisers now laid up with skeleton crews can be made immediately serviceable for active war within five days, with full crews and complete stores and ammunition.

The system has only come into force generally during the last two months, and the Admiralty are absolutely satisfied that the ships can be mobilised in the time given.

Of course there has not been an actual experiment, but the Admiralty rely on the advice of the best naval experts.

Channel Fleet—Destroyers

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what is the number of destroyers which Lord Charles Beresford will always have under his immediate command with the sea-going squadron of the Channel Fleet.

The Admiralty deprecate the introduction of the names of individual naval officers into Parliamentary Questions. According to present arrangements, which are still in process of development, there are forty-eight destroyers fully manned ready to be placed under the orders of the Commander-in-Chief of the Channel Fleet when necessary for exercises.

Are there at present any destroyers under the immediate command of the Admiral?

Channel And Home Fleets

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the forty-three warships transferred from the seagoing squadron of the Channel Fleet to the Home Fleet are always as instantly ready to meet a sudden attack as if they had been left with the sea-going squadron under the immediate command of Lord Charles Beresford.

The reply is in the affirmative. The Admiralty deprecate any comparison between the respective merits of the Flag Officers commanding the different fleets.

Are these warships just as ready now as they would be under the immediate command of an Admiral, and why cannot they remain under his command?

reply was understood to be that that was a question for the Admiralty to decide.

Nucleus Crews

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what are the existing complements and crews of the eleven battleships and ten cruisers, respectively, now laid up with skeleton crews; and what additional number of men are required in each case to make the ships ready for immediate war, and whore are these additional men now located.

The existing complements vary from one-eighth to one-tenth of full numbers. According to the established practice of the Navy, details of complements and arrangements for mobilisation are not published.

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the last part of the Question.

Yes. T said they were at the depots and training establishments.

West Indian Squadron

:I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he can now say what decision the Government have come to regarding the re-stationing of ships in the West Indies; and, if so, how many cruisers will be kept in the West Indian waters.

The "Indefatigable," "Brilliant, "and "Scylla," nineteen-knot cruisers, are to be permanently stationed on the North America and West Indian Station; and during portions of the year the Fourth Cruiser Squadron, consisting of three first-class armoured cruisers, will visit the West Indian Islands. The "Brilliant" is detached to Newfoundland during the fishery season.

Will the three cruisers be more in the West Indian waters than on the Atlantic coast?

Is it intended to ask the West Indies to make any contribution towards the cost?

Malta Torpedo And Destroyer Flotilla

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what is the present strength of the torpedo and destroyer flotilla at Malta; and have steps been taken to make up the losses that have occurred in the Mediterranean recently.

Seven first-class torpedo boats and eleven destroyers. The reply to the second part of the Question is in the negative.

Distribution Of Ships With Nucleus Crews

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty where the eleven battleships and ten cruisers now manned with skeleton crews are laid up, and how long it is since these ships have cruised at sea for more than a week.

The ports to which the Special Service vessels are attached are shewn at page 270 of the current Navy List. As regards the last part of the Question, I must refer the hon. Member to my reply to his Question No. 4 on today's Paper. †

Queen's Barracks, Perth Me

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that owing to lack of accommodation at the sergeants' mess, Queen's Barracks, Perth, there is scarcely standing room when the mess is being used by Volunteer sergeant instructors, Militia permanent staff sergeants, and depot sergeants; and what steps have been taken to secure an immediate remedy.

Sanction has been given for the provision of an additional room for the sergeants' mess and the work will be put in hand as quickly as possible.

ߤSee Questions "Mobilisation of Ships of Ware on page 311"

St Helena Defence

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can state exactly the composition of the staff which is temporarily detained at St. Helena in order to look after the guns, roads, barracks and fortifications; whether this temporary arrangement, which has lasted since October last, is to continue much longer; and whether he can now state what garrison is to be left on the island to maintain the guns, fortifications, barracks, roads and telephones in a proper and efficient state of repair.

At the same time may I ask the Secretary of State for War of how many persons does the staff now in charge of the guns, barracks and fortifications at St. Helena consist.

The staff at present detained at St. Helena consists of one Royal engineer officer and one foreman of works. These will shortly be replaced by an agent who will take charge of all War Department property in the island and employ any necessary caretaker. No garrison will be maintained in the island during peace.

Territorial Army Colours

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether it is proposed to present colours to infantry battalions of the Territorial Army; and, if not, whether the twenty-three battalions of Militia, who are to be merged in the Territorial Force, will be permitted to retain theirs.

This Question belongs to a class of inquiry to which it is impracticable at the present stage to return answers.

Cavalry In Scotland

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can now state whether it is intended to quarter two cavalry regiments in Scotland; where they are to be quartered; when are the necessary barracks to be commenced; and how long it is estimated it will take to complete them.

I have nothing further to add to the Answer which I gave on the 10th instant to a Question on this subject addressed to me by the hon. Member for South Edinburgh. †

*

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a distinguished personage recently suggested in Scotland that when the Greys-had departed, the only representative of cavalry in Scotland would be the Captain General of the Royal Archers, and did not the right hon. Gentleman think it desirable promptly to reinforce the noble Duke who occupied that position?

*

Defective Small Arm Ammunition

I beg to-ask the Secretary of State for War whether an order has been issued to the effect that the whole of the supplies of the 1906 re-made cartridges, representing many million rounds and distributed throughout the country, were to be returned in consequence of their being proved defective and dangerous in use; and if these supplies have been replaced by sound and effective cartridges.

The reply is in the affirmative. Some millions of rounds-have been withdrawn owing to the possibility of there being a few defective rounds amongst them. Any supplies withdrawn are replaced automatically.

Maryhill Barracks

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, what troops will be stationed at Maryhill Barracks when the cavalry regiment has left Scotland.

† See (4)Debates, clxxvii., 1599.

Under present arrangements these barracks will be occupied in the Autumn by a brigade of Field Artillery.

St Helena

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for "War whether he is aware that owing to the condition of the public funds at St. Helena there is now no money available for the repair of the roads which are, or may be, required for strategical purposes; and whether he proposes to take any action in the matter.

It does not appear probable that the roads in St. Helena will be required for strategic purposes.

Woolwich—Threatened Strike

On behalf of the hon. Member for the Brigg Division of Lincolnshire, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, whether he can supply any details as to the alleged threatened strike of employees at Woolwich.

A deputation of men who complained of short work has been received by the chief superintendent who is now considering what can be done to meet the wishes of the men.

Military Bands And Political Gatherings

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, if he is aware that the meeting at South-gate on the 22nd June last, at which the band of the Royal Artillery was present, was a meeting held under the auspices of the Primrose League to promote the candidature of Colonel Bowles, who made a speech, in the course of which he said the Army was on paper and the Navy dwindling; and whether he proposes to take any action in the matter.

As I informed the hon. Member when replying to his Question on the 8th, the military authorities were unaware that the fête at Southgate was a political meeting. When sanction for the attendance of the Royal Artillery Band was given, permission was in fact given on the distinct understanding that the meeting was not a political one. The organisers of the meeting have been asked to explain how the guarantee came to be given.

Royal Army Medical Corps In India

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps, under the substantive rank of colonel but holding the appointment of senior medical officer in a command in India, have been refused the additional daily allowance of 5s. to which such officers are by the terms of paragraph 4 of the Army Order of 10th January, 1907, expressly entitled if serving abroad, and that such refusal has been justified on the ground that service in India is not service abroad within the meaning of the Army Order; and, if so, seeing that such a construction is a direct violation of the letter as well as of the spirit of the Order in question, he proposes to take any, and, if any, what, action in the matter.

The Army Order referred to published a Royal Warrant modifying certain paragraphs of the Pay Warrant of the Army, the preamble of which specially exempts the Indian Empire from the sphere within which the Warrant is in force. Officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps serving in India receive special Indian rates of pay, as laid down in the Indian Army regulations, and it is not proposed to disturb this arrangement.

Victoria Memorial, Calcutta

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India, if the proposal to erect a great hall in Calcutta with the funds subscribed for the Victoria Memorial has been abandoned; if so, how much has been expended on the plans and foundations; and what is it proposed to do with the balance of the fund?

The proposal to build a hall in Calcutta with the funds subscribed for the Victoria Memorial has not been abandoned. A committee of experts recently reported on the foundations which have been laid: their Report has been forwarded to the architect, Sir William Emerson, who will advise whether any modifications in his original plan are necessary.

Mr Veal's Murderers

had on the paper the following Question: To ask the Under-Secretary of State for the the Colonies what has happened to the seven natives who several weeks ago were sentenced to death for the murder of Mr. Veal during the recent disturbances in Natal; will he say whether some of them have been reprieved; and does the Secretary of State anticipate that after so long a lapse of time the extreme penalty of the law will be enforced upon the remaining convicts. When called upon to put the Question the hon. Member said: "It is too late, the men have been executed."

Perhaps I may be allowed to read the Answer. Of the seven men condemned to death the officer administering the Government of Natal has commuted the sentences of four. The death sentence has, I understand been carried out in the case of the other three.

St Helena And South African Customs

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if the Government will make representations to the Cape Colony Government with a view to the reduction of the duties on agriculture produce, such as potatoes, on which the duty is £'2 per ton, and on live stock imported in the Colony from St. Helena, in view of its present improverished condition.

The Governor of St. Helena has recently been in direct communication with the Government of the Cape Colony on the subject. It is feared that the South African Customs Union Convention, to which the Cape Government is a party, does not permit of the grant of the reduction desired in the circumstances, but inquiry shall be made.

Labor In The Johannesburg Mines

I beg to ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies if the places of the Chinamen, who were recently repatriated from the Johannesburg mines, have been filled by the supply of other labour equally efficient.

The responsibility in those matters vests entirely with the Transvaal Government and I have at present no information; should it be received I will consider whether I can deal further with the hon. Member's question.

British Consuls In British Colonies

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether his decision to appoint consuls to act in British Colonies was in any way due to requests made or advice tendered by the Colonial Premiers or other Colonial authorities; whether the gentlemen who have been, or are about to be, appointed to these appointments were selected in consultation with Colonial authorities; whether it is anticipated that the services of these gentlemen will be of value to the Colonies; and, if so, whether the Colonies have offered to pay the whole or any part of the salaries of the gentlemen so selected. I beg also to ask the President of the Board of Trade in how many cases within recent years has the Government of a Colony offered to defray or share the cost of maintaining a consulate in cases where that particular Colony had special interests; in how many cases has such offer been accepted; and what proportion in each case has the contribution paid by the Colony borne to the total expense of the consulate.

The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY
(Mr. RUNCIMAN, Dewsbury) (for Sir EDWARD GREY)

There are eight. consular posts at which part of the expenditure is borne by Colonial Governments. At each of these the Colony pays the actual expenditure. In four cases the Imperial Government makes fixed contributions towards the total costs; in three an allowance is provided for such expenses as are involved by the performance of purely consular duties; in the remaining cases all expenses are borne by the Colony. It is not known what the total cost of any of these consulates may amount to. They are posts where only questions of local interest are likely to arise. Otherwise the Imperial Government would have to retain sole control, and consequently defray the whole cost of maintenance. One case has occurred where the other to share the cost was on this account not accepted.

Chinese Railway Contracts

*

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is in a position to state the result of negotiations with the Government of China relative to their obligations to British subjects in respect of railway contracts.

Final contracts have been concluded in the case of two railway concessions, viz., those from Shanghai to Nanking and from Canton to the boundary of Hongkong, and the work of construction is proceeding on the former railway. As regards the remaining British railway concessions negotiations are still proceeding, and, though progress is slow, His Majesty's Government cannot anticipate that the Chinese Government will fail in the end to respect the obligations which they have incurred in regard to them.

Turkish Customs Duties

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what States have to signify their consent to the proposed increase in the Turkish customs duties before such increase can be levied; which of thesis States have already signified their consent either finally or subject to ratification by their Parliaments; and whether he can state when the increase is likely to conic into force.

The assent of all the Powers has now been finally given to the increase in the Turkish customs duties, and my right hon. friend under stands that the increase was to come into force on the 12th instant.

Turkish Finance—Macedonian Budget Deficit

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the recent loan of £250,000, contracted by the Turkish Government for the purpose of supplying the deficit in the Macedonian budget, was secured on the guarantee of the surplus of those Turkish revenues which are administered by the European institution called the Ottoman Public Debt, and are on the increase every year; whether the said revenues, known as ceded revenues, and forming the best security which Turkey has to offer, are at present mortgaged in respect of charges for special temporary loans such as the above to the extent of £420,000, and, if not, to what extent they are so mortgaged; and whether it has been estimated by the British delegate on the Ottoman Public Debt that these special temporary charges will be wiped out in 1909, provided that the 3 per cent. increase in the Turkish Customs be applied to defray the deficit on the Macedonian budget, which has hitherto been made good by means of such loans.

His Majesty's Government understand that the recent loan of £250,000 contracted by the Ottoman Government was secured on the guarantee of the surplus of the ceded revenues administered by the Ottoman Public Debt. The second part of the Question concerns the Council of the Ottoman Debt, for which His Majesty's Government is not responsible and with whom the information rests. Estimates made by the British delegate are a matter for consideration by the bondholders by whom he is appointed, and my right hon. friend cannot make official statements concerning them, but according to his information the revenues referred to will not be available for other purposes till after 1910.

I beg to ask the Secre- of State for Foreign Affairs whether the supplementary financial guarantee given to the Powers by the Turkish Government in respect of the deficit on the Macedonian budget is secured on the surplus of the revenues administered by the Ottoman Public Debt and known as the ceded revenues; and, if not, whether this surplus will be available for the purpose of kilometric guarantees for railways in the year 1909, provided that the increase in the Turkish customs be put into force.

The Answer to the first Question is in the negative. The guarantee is secured on the new or tithe revenues. According to the best information obtainable the surplus referred to in the hon. Member's Question is pledged till 1910, and will not therefore be available for other purposes till the following year.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the British delegate on the council of the Ottoman Public Debt who during the recent negotiations in connection with the three per cent. increase in the Turkish customs duties, withheld his consent to the proposal to provide an additional guarantee for the Macedonian budget out of funds other than the funds known as the ceded revenues, and not immediately under the control of the Debt, has now signified his consent to the proposal.

His Majesty's Government are not responsible for the decisions of the Council of the Debt, and the British and other delegates are, my right hon. friend presumes, bound by the decision of the majority.

Ottoman Public Debt Council

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether out of seven members composing the Council of the Ottoman Public Debt, three are also directors on the board of the Baghdad Railway, while a fourth represents a foreign financial institution having five representatives on this board; whether the principal administrator of the Ottoman Public Debt is also a director of the Baghdad Railway; and, if so, whether he will bring these facts to the attention of the foreign bondholders.

Such information as is available on this subject is to be found in published documents within reach of the holders of Ottoman stock. My right hon. friend has no obligation to advise them on matters concerning their private business.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether in view of the sacrifices made by British trade in connection with the 3 per cent. increase in the Turkish customs duties he will represent to the Turkish Government the unfairness of applying the surplus of the revenues ceded to the Ottoman Public Debt, which could otherwise have been used as a security for temporary loans in respect of Macedonia, to purposes imposing fresh burdens upon the Turkish people in the shape of kilometric guarantees to foreigners in respect of railways.

My right hon. friend has already stated that according to his information the revenues referred to will not be available for other purposes till after 1910. My right hon. friend would be delighted to give sound financial advice whenever he has any at his disposal in any quarter in which it was likely to be acceptable.

Turkish Railway Guarantees

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will ascertain the yearly amounts of the grants-in-aid made by the Turkish Government in the form of kilometric guarantees or otherwise to each of the existing railways in Turkey, including separately the existing branch of the proposed Baghdad Railway, for a period of five years up to and comprising the financial year 1106–7.

The hon. Member will find the information he desires— except figures for 1906–7, which are not yet published in final form—in a series of publications issued annually by E. Souma and Company, of Constantinople, and entitled,Statistique des Principaux Résultats de l'Exploitation des Chemins de Fer de l'Empire Ottoman.

Germany And Turkish Finance

*

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether an agreement has been signed between the Deutsche Bank and the National Bank of Berlin for common financial action in Turkey; whether a German bank is to be established in Baghdad with the assistance of various German financial institutions; whether it is proposed to construct with German capital a railway from Baghdad to the Persian frontier; and, if so, whether he will press for permission to build railways with British capital in those portions of Asia Minor where the communications are at present in German hands.

My right hon. friend is not aware of the conclusion of any such agreement, nor has he information that a German bank is to be established in Baghdad, and these are not matters in which a foreign government could interfere. Provision is made for the construction of a railway from a point near Baghdad to Khanikin in the Baghdad Railway Convention of 1903. My right hon. friend would always be ready to support applications for railway concessions in Turkey, provided he were satisfied that they were put forward in good faith and commanded the requisite capital.

*

Was there not an unexpressed understanding that while Asia Minor was the sphere of German railway influence, Mesopotamia should be retained in the sphere of British influence?

Death Duties

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the amount of the death duties assessed on the property of the late Lord Midleton, including the Peper Harrow estate; and whether these have yet been paid.

It would not be in accordance with precedent or with propriety to give particulars of private property in regard to which the Government is in possession of information only for the single purpose of assessing duty therein.

Scotland—Education Equivalent Grant

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer in view of the fact that a special grant of £100,000 is to be provided for the provision of new elementary schools in England and Wales what amount ho proposes to allocate to Scotland as an equivalent grant.

It would be premature to consider this suggestion until expenditure has taken place out; of the grant in question and the amount of the actual expenditure has been ascertained but I may say at once that the extension of the practice of equivalent grants to the case of services involving a comparatively small expenditure would give rise to serious administrative difficulties and lead to great waste of public money.

Import Duties

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the amount of revenue raised during the last financial year from import duties on each of the following articles: sugar, tea, figs, plums and raisins, cocoa, coffee, currants, and chicory.

The net amount of the Customs revenue collected during the the financial year 1906–7 in respect of the articles enumerated in the Question was:—

£.
Sugar6,250,334
Tea5,588,288
Figs64,652
Plums65,087
Raisins215,859
Cocoa, Cocoa Husks,Cocoa or Chocolate prepared, and Cocoa Butter246,990
Coffee175,216
Currants121,721
Chicory48,550

Land Values

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if the promise that existing contracts will be rigidly respected as sacred will safeguard the case of the purchase of land which, although of a present low rental value, has been bought at a high price as prospective building land from the effects of any change in the system of valuation or rating.

This is a hypothetical question, the answer to which may be deferred until legislative proposals dealing with the matter come before Parliament.

Epileptics And The Workmen's Compensation Act

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that throughout the country there are many workers subject to epileptic fits; that, under the Workmen's Compensation Act, the insurance companies will not undertake the risk of insuring them against accidents; that, contracting out not being allowed, they are in danger of losing their employment; and what steps, if any, he proposes to take to prevent this class from being deprived of the opportunity of earning a livelihood.

I have no official information on the matters referred to in the Question. I believe, however, it is the fact that, quite apart from the Workmen's Compensation Act, epileptics have difficulty in finding employment. The new Act may aggravate that difficulty though such cases could have been provided for under an Amendment which I moved on the Report stage of the Bill last autumn, and which, after being left to the judgment of the House, was rejected. The matter is one which obviously cannot be considered with reference merely to the effects of the Act, and as my hon. friend will be aware, the whole question of the treatment of the feeble-minded, including epileptics, is under the consideration of a Royal Com- mission whose Report may be expected shortly.

Is it not the case that already a good many epileptics have lost their employment in consequence of the passing of this Act, and cannot the right hon. Gentleman deal with their case in some way?

Pending the Report of the Royal Commission cannot these discharges be suspended?

Mr A A Lynch's Pardon

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can state the reason why a free pardon has been granted to A. A. Lynch.

It would be contrary to practice for me to make a statement of the reasons for the advice which I gave to the King; but I think I may say that, in view of the altered condition of affairs in South Africa, I felt I might recommend to His Majesty a special exercise of the Royal clemency in this case.

Will the pardon qualify for service in this House in the event of election?

Mr Bonaldson—Scottish Mine Inspector

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been drawn to a letter sent by Mr. J. M. Ronaldson, one of His Majesty's mines inspectors for Scotland, in which Mr. Ronaldson interfered with the business of the Ayrshire Miners' Federal Union and expressed opinions regarding its action in trying to get firemen to join it; whether in doing so Mr. Ronaldson was exceeding his duties; and what steps the Secretary of State proposes to take to prevent the repetition of such interference.

I have seen the letter referred to in the Question. The inspector informs me that he wrote the letter because he has found it difficult in practice to get the under-officials, and especially the firemen, to see that the men comply with the statutory regulations, and in his opinion the difficulty would be increased, and the maintenance of proper discipline in the mines prejudiced, if the firemen were compelled to join the men's union. In replying to the inspector's letter the secretary of the union says that the official of the union had no hand in any attempt to force the firemen at the mine in question into the union. In view of the fact that the paragraph in the inspector's letter to which the hon. Member refers was no more than the expression of an individual opinion, I do not think that any action on my part is called for.

But the expression, though that of an individual, was also that of an official of the Home Office.

But he had no authority to deliver the opinion officially, and it was only intended as an individual opinion.

Hackney Carriages

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can say when he proposes to introduce the promised measure to amend the Hackney Carriage Act of 1869.

Taximeters

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can state the reason why motor cabs are allowed to use taximeters and horse-drawn cabs are not.

The existing Public Carriage Order provides for the use of taximeters with horsed cabs, but no taximeter has yet been submitted for approval which can register a scale of fares complying with all the statutory provisions which now limit the action of the central authority in fixing cab fares. I am about to introduce legislation to remove these limitations.

Charitable Employments

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the thirty-seven workshops and laundries conducted by religious or charitable institutions, which are entered on the factory inspectors' registers for the metropolitan area, are carried on by way of trade within the meaning of the Factory Act; and whether there is any material difference between the employment, such as firewood cutting and laundry work, done in these places and that done in premises occupied by the Church Army.

The places referred to in the hon. Member's Question are on the same footing as the Church Army workshops mentioned in my reply to his Question on the 8th of last April.† The fact that they are visited and registered does not make them factories or workshops, and there is no material difference, generally speaking, between the employment in these places and that in the promises occupied by the Church Army. The Factory and Workshops Bill which is now before the House provides for the inspection of industrial employment in charitable or reformatory institutions notwithstanding that the work is not carried on by way of trade or for purposes of gain.

Wage Particulars

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether ho can give the number of firms convicted during 1906 for not complying with the Particulars Orders by neglecting to give proper particulars of wages to persons employed at their own homes.

The hon. Member will find the information he desires on page 375 of the Annual Report of the Chief Inspector which has just been issued. Three cases were taken in respect of the failure to supply particulars to outworkers. Two resulted in convictions: one was dismissed on technical grounds.

Half-Time Child Labour

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has any official reports as to the causes of the increase of half-time child labour reported by His Majesty's Inspector of Factories; and whether the Home Office proposes to take any, and, if any, what, action to check it.

† See (4)Debates, clxxii., 17.

The increase reported by the chief inspector is an increase in certain towns only. As regards the cause, or one of the causes, of this increase, I may refer my hon. friend to a previous Answer of mine this session, on the 7th March, in reply to a Question from the hon. Member for West Bradford, † from which he will gather that the increase in child labour is more apparent than real. Half-time employment generally is decreasing.

Women Workers' Wage Deductions

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what legislation he has in view which is designed to deal with the evils of factory employment such as are mentioned in the Annual Report of His Majesty's Inspectors just issued, and particularly with the injustice to which many low-waged women workers are subjected in the matter of fines, deductions, and other impositions.

The question of fines and deductions is under the consideration of a Departmental Committee, which expects to present its Report during the ensuing winter. I hope to be able to deal with that question at an early date. A Bill for the Amendment of the Factory Act in regard to the regulation of laundries and regulation of industrial work in charitable and reformatory institutions is now before the House. A number of Orders dealing with dangerous trades, home work and the provision of particulars of piece-work have been made; within the last eighteen months. I have no statement to make at present as regards further legislation.

Factory Inspectors' Reports On Offenders

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department why it is considered necessary to suppress the names and addresses of the firms mentioned in the annual factory inspectors' reports as committing offences, in some cases of a gross character, against the Factory Act.

It is the practice of the Department, and I think it will be felt to be a proper one, that the published reports of the inspectors should not as a

† See (4) Debates, clxx., 970.
general rule reflect upon individual firms by name. Where an offence results in proceedings being taken in the Courts, publicity is given to it in that way; where proceedings are not taken the publication of names might be regarded as penalising employers who had not had an opportunity of presenting a defence to a judicial tribunal. I may add that until 1900 a detailed list of all prosecutions appeared annually in the Chief Inspector's Report; but as the prosecutions number nearly 4,000 a year, and the list occupied nearly 100 pages of print, and was of no special use, its publication was discontinued.

Girl Labour In Factories

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if his attention has been directed to the Report by Miss Squires,. His Majesty's Inspector of Factories, that in one thread factory she found forty little girls all licking and moistening adhesive labels by the mouth, the number of labels so treated being about thirty gross per girl per day; that the tongues of most of the girls had the polished tip and brown coating characteristic of label lickers, and that the girls complained that the work made them feel sick at times; and whether, in the absence of legislation on such points, he will give the name of the firm referred to that public opinion may be exerted in the matter.

I think there would be objections to publishing the name of this particular firm. As regards the practice referred to, I may say that it formed the subject of inquiry some years ago by a Departmental Committee of which the hon. Member for Berwickshire was Chairman, and they did not see their way to proposing its prohibition. The inspectors have instructions to recommend the use of dampers and the abolition of the practice as far as possible.

Seeing that the inspectors have reported that nothing but legislation will stop the practice, will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to amend the law?

said the matter had been carefully inquired into, and it had not been found possible to introduce legislation to stop the objectionable practice.

Does the right hon. Gentleman say that the Home Office does not consider the practice injurious, but only objectionable?

Are little girls worked in this way in the factories of the great protective countries of Europe?

[No Answer was returned.]

Loans For Ferro-Concrete Works

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board what period is usually allowed by his Board for the repayment of loans for work constructed by the method known as ferro-concrete.

The period varies from fifteen to thirty years according to the position in which, and the purpose for which, the material is used.

Loans To Local Authorities

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether any differences are made in the terms laid down for the repayment of loans according to differences in systems or materials of construction; and, if so, what are the terms and conditions for the various systems of construction.

The Answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. The terms usually allowed vary from ten years for such buildings as sheds and shelters to thirty years for stone or brick buildings.

Wages In Protective Countries

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any statistics of recent date showing the wages paid to classes of workmen in countries where a protective tariff is in force compared with similar occupations in the United Kingdom; and whether he purposes presenting the same to the House.

Information as to wages in foreign countries was published last year in the Third Abstract of Foreign Labour Statistics (Cd. 3,120), and comparisons are made so far as possible between wages in foreign countries and in the United Kingdom. Further inquiries are now being made in Germany and France, and the results will be published as soon as they are completed.

Cunard Steamers And Halifax

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the Cunard Steamship Company used to maintain a service of steamers that made Halifax its first port of destination on the other side of the Atlantic; and whether the Board of Trade has any information in its possession to show why this commercial company, after several years trial, abandoned Halifax and sent its steamers direct to New York.

I believe the facts are as stated in the first part of the Question. I presume that the company made the change because at the time they considered that the new arrangement would be more advantageous to them.

Steamship Insurance

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the rates of insurance charged upon Atlantic steamships destined for Halifax are roughly 50 per cent. higher than the rates charged on ships destined for New York; and whether it is proposed by His Majesty's Government to ask Parliament to subsidise a service of fast steamships upon a route which involves a 50 per cent. greater risk of loss of life and property.

The Board of Trade are informed by some of the chief associations of underwriters that in respect of vessels of equal class the rate for Halifax is practically the same as that to New York.

Companies Bill, Clause 23

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he has recently received communications from representative commercial bodies with regard to Clause 23 of the Companies Bill, which requires private companies as well as public companies to file an annual balance sheet; and whether it would be possible to make any exception in favour of private companies.

The Board of Trade have received many communications of the nature indicated by my hon. friend, and, after careful consideration, have decided to propose an Amendment when the Bill is in Committee, to exempt private companies from the provisions of Clause 23 of the Companies Bill.

School Hygiene

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether His Majesty's Government will invite foreign Powers to send delegates to the International Congress on School Hygiene to be held in London next month.

The following Questions also appeared on the Paper: —

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Education whether he will consider the possibility of giving an official reception to the delegates of the Second International Congress on School Hygiene.

To ask the President of the Board of Education whether the Board is taking any official part in the International Congress on School Hygiene; whether the Board has approached the Foreign Office with a view of securing the official representation of foreign countries at the Congress; whether any communication between the two offices on this subject has taken place; and what steps his Department has taken to carry out the promise made by its representative at Nuremberg, as printed in the transactions of the Congress, that the Government would officially recognise the Congress and feel honoured by its presence in London.

The Board of Education are greatly interested in the approaching Congress on School Hygiene, and have intimated their intention of sending three of their officers to attend it. I hope to derive much information from its proceedings, and I have done my best to facilitate its deliberations by arranging for special investigations and reports to be prepared in elucidation of some important matters which will come under discussion. The various foreign countries have already received invitations, which were forwarded to the respective Governments through the Foreign Office. A considerable number have signified their intention to send representatives. The University of London are finding rooms for the Congress, and I am also placing certain rooms at South Kensington at their disposal. I have thus been able to carry out to the fullest extent all that was promised by the Board's representative at the Nuremberg Conference.

New General Post Office

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether, in the construction of the new General Post Office, it is proposed to adopt the system. known as ferro-concrete; whether he is advised that a building so constructed will be as permanent as a building of bricks and mortar; and what is the expected duration of the ferro-concrete structure.

The Answer to the first Question is—Yes. I am advised that the permanency and duration of such structures is likely to be at least as great as those of bricks and mortar.

Marking Of Imported Cardboard Boxes

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that large consignments of empty cardboard boxes, bearing English wording and not marked in accordance with the Merchandise Marks Act, 1867, are being regularly imported into this country; and whether he will take the necessary steps to ensure that the Customs authorities, shall be instructed to enforce the provisions of the Merchandise Marks Act in respect of such goods.

The Board of Customs are not aware that there have been any importations of empty cardboard boxes marked with English words in such a manner as to contravene the Merchandise Marks Act, 1887. I beg, however, to refer the hon. Member to the Answer given on the 8th instant† by my hon. friend the Secretary of the Board of Trade on the somewhat analogous subject of the importation of match boxes. I have no doubt that the cases of these carboard boxes will not be overlooked in the consideration of the question promised by him.

Discharges Of Boy Clerks

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the fact that numbers of boy clerks are being discharged daily from His Majesty's Civil Service, he will expedite the consideration of the memorial as to the position of boy clerks presented in September last.

I hope that a decision on this question will be reached very shortly, but the subject is one that presents many difficulties and which requires very careful consideration.

Passive Resisters And Scottish Church Assessments

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that passive resistance has been resorted to in Stone-house, Lanarkshire, against payment of assessments levied by the Church of Scotland upon tenants' improvements there, in order to build a new manse, he is aware that this new manse has been built and assessments have been arranged to be levied upon improvements of helpless tenants over a series of years, in spite of the petty attendance at the church itself and its generally unsound economic state; whether the Government intend next session to bring in a Bill to abolish this power of assessment and that especially over tenants' improvements; and, if not, whether a short Bill will be passed interdicting the Church of Scotland from further building of new manses or churches except with their own money, further increasing their ministers' salaries unless their congregations pay such increase, and in general interdicting the power of the Church to assess ratepayers for their own purposes.

†See (4)Debates, clxxvii., 1161–2
.

I have no official information with regard to the facts stated by my hon. friend, and I am well aware of the friction and feeling which any such proceedings are apt to arouse. But I regret that in regard to the two suggestions which he makes I am unable to give any undertaking now as to legislation. As he is aware, the terms of the Resolution moved by the Member for East Edinburgh‡on this subject in February last indicate the direction in which legislation is desirable and were assented to by the Government.

Rector Of Fordyce Academy

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether he is aware that the Rector of Fordyce Academy, a distinguished secondary teacher, who has been appointed head master of Keith public school, has been dismissed by the school board of Fordyce, on the ground of his claiming a fortnight's salary more than the school board considered him entitled to; and whether he intends to take any action in the matter.

The School Board of Fordyce have, as stated in the Question, dismissed from their employment the Rector of Fordyce Academy, but I am unable to say what were the grounds for their action. It would be regrettable should the school board have taken this stop in the present case for such a trivial reason as that suggested in the Question. The Department has, however, no power to interfere in the matter.

Fife Coast Fisheries

I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether he has received any reports of illegal trawling in the neighbourhood of May Island during the last three weeks; and whether he will take the necessary steps to safeguard the interests of the fishermen on the Fife coast.

The Fishery Board for Scotland have received no complaints of illegal trawling in the neighbourhood of the Island of May for over four months. The interests of the Fife

†See (4)Debates, clxix., 1533.
fishermen appear to be adequately safeguarded by the existing arrangements for fishery protection, but any necessary further steps will be taken.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make further inquiries. I have private information.

Ireland And The Butter And Margarine Bill

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether he is aware that, in connection with the Butter and Margarine Bill now before this House, anxiety exists amongst Irish farmers who make salt firkin butter for home consumption and for export to Great Britain; can he say what are the intentions of the Government with reference to the fixing of a standard of moisture for Irish salt firkin butter, and is he aware that any reduction of the standard hitherto recognised would be ruinous to small farmers in many districts in the west of Ireland; and has the Department statistics showing the quantity of salt firkin butter exported from Ireland in recent years.

THE VICE-PRESIDENT of the DEPARTMENT of AGRICULTURE for IRELAND
(Mr. T. W. Russell, Tyrone, S.)

The Butter and Margarine Bill now before the House makes no alteration in the amount of moisture permissible in salt firkin butter. In the statistics of butter exports from Ireland furnished to the Department the quantities of "fresh and salt" butter exported are not separately stated.

Has the hon. Gentleman satisfied himself that this Bill will not prejudicially affect in any way the Irish salt firkin butter trade?

The Bill now before the House makes no alteration in the present law.

Clare Potato Crop

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) if he has received any notice as to the injury likely to be caused to the potato crop in county Clare owing to the inclement season; and whether arrangements can be made to enable the Clare farmers generally to spray their crops.

The Department are aware of the present condition of the potato crop in county Clare and in other parts of Ireland owing to the inclement season, which I hope may now be taken as at an end. There is an agricultural instructor in county Clare appointed by the County Committee of Agriculture, and one of his duties is to give demonstrations and instruction regarding spraying to farmers. He is at present wholly engaged on this work. In addition the Department have located an agricultural overseer temporarily in the county for the spraying season, and have extended to county Clare their operations in connection with the distribution of spraying machines and materials, particulars of which were given in my reply of the 19th ultimo to a Question from the hon. Member for North Cork.†More over, a circular has been issued to every County Committee of Agriculture in Ireland authorising thorn, in the very exceptional circumstances of the present season, to purchase and hire out at a small daily charge, I think it is 6d. per day, knapsack sprayers to small farmers and others in the poorer districts who are not in a position to purchase such machines for their own use.

Irish Milk Industry

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether there are any special arrangements made so that milk may be carried safely and expeditiously from milk-producing districts in Ireland to the cities and large towns in England, in view of the fact that the Government allows butter and beef to be imported free from lands that pay no rent; and will it give every facility to Irish farmers, who have a heavier burden than they can bear in the present rents for land, to send their milk to England.

The Department learn that milk is at present sent in small quantities from some dairying

† See (4)Debates, clxxvi., 485–6.
districts in Munster and Ulster to London, Manchester, and a few other centres in Great Britain. The traffic is conveyed by passenger train or other similar quick service at special rates and under regulations prescribed by the railways for the purpose of ensuring safety in transit and delivery. The Department have not received any complaint as to the inadequate facilities or unreasonable rates for this description of traffic.

Has the attention of the hon. Gentleman been directed to the complaints of delay by railway companies in distribution of Irish produce?

Tottenham Estate, Leitrim

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, with reference to the Tottenham, county Leitrim, estate, how many years has this estate been under the control of the Land Judge; is he aware that several years ago the tenants agreed to purchase at the prices suggested by the inspector sent down by the Estates Commissioners; is he aware that for years past the only obstacle to the completion of the purchase has been the refusal of Colonel Adamson, who purchased the mansion house, demesne, and mountains on the estate, to give an adequate supply of turbary to the Estates Commissioners for the use of purchasing tenants; and can he say when the sale will be completed.

The Registrar of the Land Judge's Court informs me that the petition for sale in the case of the Tottenham estate was presented in the year 1884. Considerable difficulty has been experienced in allotting plots of turbary for the use of the tenants, but in the opinion of the Land Judge the action of Colonel Adamson has not been unreasonable, as suggested in the Question. The Land Judge considers it only natural that Colonel Adamson, as purchaser of the mansion house, demesne, and mountain land, should desire to have the turbary allotments made in such a way as to avoid friction with the purchasing tenants and at the same time to preserve the amenities of his own property. A turbary scheme has now been finally approved, and the necessary amendments are being made in the maps and rentals. As soon as these details have been completed the documents will be put before the Estates Commissioners, who will then make an offer for purchase.

Derrahiney Estate, Galway

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether Mr. Young has offered to sell his estate at Derrahiney, county Galway, to the Estates Commissioners; if so, does the offer include the entire estate; and, if not, what portion is reserved?

The Estates Commissioners have approached Mr. Young with a view to the purchase of his untenanted land in county Galway, and have been informed by Mr. Young that he farms the land himself and does not wish to sell it.

United Irish League And Grazing Farms

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state, in continuation of information given a few years ago on the same subject, the number of grazing farms and evicted farms held, respectively, by presidents and vice-presidents, secretaries, treasurers, and members of committees of the United Irish League.

The Government have no information upon the subject of the Question, and do not propose to make inquiries in the matter.

Agrarian Outrages

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state the number of outrages recorded as agrarian in which firearms have been used during the three months ended 31st March, 30th June, 30th September, and 31st December of 1906, and the past two quarters of the present year.

The figures for the six quarters referred to in the Question, commencing with that ending on 31st March, 1906, were as follows:—7, 4, 6, 5, 13, and 22.

Derelict Evicted Farms

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state, in continuation of information given on the same subject in previous years, the total number of evicted farms in Ireland unlet on the 1st July in each of the years 1893 to 1907, both inclusive, under the heads of the number used or cultivated by land lords, the number worked by land corporation or similar body, and the number lying derelict respectively.

The Question appears to refer to Returns which have been presented to Parliament from time to time showing how evicted farms were then occupied on seventeen estates commonly known as Plan of Campaign Estates. The last such Return was presented, pursuant to an order of this House, in 1903 (Parliamentary Return No. 173 of that session). If the hon. Member should think fit to move for a continuation of that Return I will offer no objection.

Evicted Tenants And Voluntary Surrenders

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Estates Commissioners or the police are in possession of information showing that, in a considerable number of cases in which application has been made by ex-tenants or their representatives for reinstatement, the holdings of such applicants are at present occupied by new tenants or purchasers by arrangement come to between the latter and the former tenants; that in many of these cases the arrangement thus mutually arrived at partook of the nature of a money payment from the new to the former tenant; and how it is proposed to deal with such cases under the provisions of the Bill now before the House.

The Estates Commissioners inform me that some cases of the nature referred to in the Question have come under their notice. The fact that an evicted tenant or his representative has received compensation from the present occupier of the holding is taken into consideration by the Commissioners when dealing with an application for reinstatement. I would refer the hon. Member to the 20th paragraph of the Estates Commissioners' Special Report on evicted tenants, from which it will be seen that the Commissioners have rejected applications on the ground, amongst others, that the applicants have voluntarily surrendered their holdings or sold their interest in them.

Ballydowd Evicted Tenants

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will say what steps, if any, have been taken by the Estates Commissioners in the case of the representatives of Pierce Grace, who was evicted from his holding at Ballydowd, O'Mara's estate, county Kilkenny; if he is aware that the holding is in the occupation of a planter named Holmes, and that the landlord, in anticipation of the effects of the Evicted Tenants Bill now before Parliament, has advertised to be sold by auction on Thursday next his interest, and the interest of the evicted tenant; and will he see that no injustice is done to the representatives of the evicted tenant by reason of the said sale.

The Estates Commissioners have received no application for reinstatement in this case, and have no information as to the matters of fact alleged in the Question.

Clifden Pier, Galway

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland when the pier at Clifden, county Galway, promised under the provisions of the Marine Works Act, is to be constructed; and if he will state the cause of the delay in the fulfilment of the late Government's promise to have this work carried out.

The Irish Government are waiting the opinion of the Galway County Council upon the prelimininary plan which has been prepared by the Board of Works and sent to the council. I would remind the hon. Member of my Answer to his previous Question on 2nd May, namely, that the promise of the Government to endeavour to find a certain sum for marine works at Clifden was conditional upon the county council's undertaking to provide ancillary works. Unless a considerable contribution is made to the cost of the work, the expense will be beyond the funds still available under the Marine Works Act.

West Of Ireland Crops

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if steps are being taken to make provision against the destitution that is certain to result from the destruction of the potato and other crops in the West of Ireland this year, because of the excessive rainfall and abnormally cold weather during the last few months; whether he is aware that in Connemara considerable distress exists at the present time consequent on the failure of the potato crop last year; and whether, in view of these seasons of distress and of famine in Connemara and other districts on the western seaboard, he will give his serious consideration to this question.

The prolonged wet and cold weather in the West of Ireland has given some cause for anxiety in regard to the safety of the crops. The weather of last week was, however, most favourable, and, though small patches of blight have appeared in a few places, the general appearance of the potato crop is very good, and the other crops promise equally well. There is as yet no abnormal distress in Connemara. The people are busily engaged in cutting their turf, and, given a continuance of the fine weather, it is not too late for them to secure their winter supply. The result of the harvest generally will depend mainly upon the weather of the next few weeks. The state of the crops and of the people who are dependent on them will continue to receive the most careful attention of the Government. The Department of Agriculture have been taking all possible measures to secure the spraying of potatoes, both by giving instruction and by the sale, at and under cost, of spraying machines and material. I would refer to the full statement on this subject made by my hon. friend the Vice-President of the Department on 19th June.†

Belfast Health Commission

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware of the fact that the Belfast Health Commission, consisting of Colonel Harding, an ex-Lord Mayor of Leeds, Dr. Mair, a medical inspector of the Local Government Board of England, Dr. Chalmers, of Glasgow, and two inspectors of the Irish Local Government Board, appointed on the 11th February, 1907, to inquire into the cause of the high death rate in Belfast, has held twenty-four sittings, all the evidence at which has been taken on oath; and if he will state what statutory authority any person or persons other than inspectors of the Local Government Board have to hold inquiries under Section 209 of the Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1878, or to take evidence on oath.

The number of sittings held so far by the Commission referred to is correctly stated in the Question. All the evidence has been taken on oath. There is nothing to prevent other persons from being associated with inspectors of the Local Government Board in holding inquiries under Section 209 of the Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1878. The power of administering an oath is, however, rested only in inspectors, and this power has not been exercised by any of the other gentlemen on the Commission.

Honours And Party Funds—A Question Of Privilege

LORD R. CECIL (Marylebone, E.) rose to call attention to the letter appearing in The Times of Friday last, under the heading "Honours and Party Funds" and purporting to be written by the hon. Member for East St. Pancras (Mr. Lea).

As this question was adjourned from last Friday because of the absence of the

†See (4)Debates, clxxvi., 485–6.
hon. Member for East St. Pancras, and as we are all anxious to get to the debate on preference, may I ask if it cannot be arranged to put the matter off again till to-morrow?

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then asked, in accordance with the usual formal course, that the letter be read at the Table.

The CLERK at the Table read the letter as follows—

"SIR,—I put a Question to the Prime Minister to-day at Question time in the House of Commons, with reference to a knighthood conferred on a director of a company which had been admitted from the Treasury Bench to have been guilty of a gross fraud on the Admiralty—one endangering a first-class battleship with all its crew

"I found that the rules and regulations of the House debarred me from criticising such acts of the Sovereign, even when those acts are committed on the recommendation of, or at the instigation of, either the Prime Minister on members of the Cabinet.

"I think therefore it is only right that the matter should be ventilated through the columns of the Press.

"If ever there has been a Government since 1832 which was pledged up to the hilt to strive for ideals held in respect by the democracy of this country, it is the present Government with its vast majority of Liberals and Radicals

"A fortnight ago we spent three days in the House of Commons discussing a pious Resolution affecting the veto of the House of Lords. In the course of that debate Liberals and Radicals got up and vied with each other in denunciation of the principle of hereditary legislation.

"At the time of this debate I put a couple of Questions to the clerks at the Table. These Questions were refused. I asked in those questions that the Prime Minister should give the House an assurance that no addition should be made to the peerage whilst this Government was in power, and, further, that the Prime Minister would in no case recommend to the Sovereign any persons for baronetcies or other forms of so-called honour, I think this line of conduct would have been consistent on our part; but, sir, there is another and graver aspect to the matter. These honours are bought and sold, the proceeds going principally to the war chest of the Party in office at the time these so-called honours are conferred. The Party funds are presided over by the Chief Whip. At times of election, if candidates come forward and cannot pay their expenses in to to, grants-in-aid are given; and should the candidate become a Member, his vote and support of the Government are looked upon as secure, no

matter what the issue or what pledges he may have given his constituents. Should he rebel and vote according to his conscience, to his pledges, or to what he is persuaded his constituents would wish him to do, then he is reproached by the Party Whips for not having held to what they look upon as a bargain. A fund is, perhaps, necessary, and, were the fund public, no harm would be done. Those who had subscribed would be known, and their intentions could be judged.

"Sir, in inditing this protest, I sincerely and humbly hope that it may be the means of abolishing one of the hypocrisies of public life.

Yours faithfully,

"HUGH CECIL LEA

"House of Commons,

"July 11 the."

The portion of the letter which I venture to submit is clearly a breach of privilege is that which runs as follows—

"The Party funds are presided over by the Chief Whip. At times of election, if candidates come forward and cannot pay their expensesin toto, grants-in-aid are given; and, should the candidate become a Member, his vote and support of the Government are looked upon as secure, no matter what the issue or what pledges he may have given his constituents. Should he rebel and vote according to his conscience, to his pledges, or to what he is persuaded his constituents would wish him to do, then he is reproached by the Party Whips for not having held to what they look upon as a bargain. A fund is, perhaps, necessary, and were the fund public, no harm would be done."
I think the House will agree that that is a serious charge. It amounts to this, that the hon. Member with all responsibility which attaches to any utterance in this House, charges the Government of the day with amassing a fund by very discreditable means, and then using that fund for the attempted corruption of certain hon. Members. That that is not too strong a summary of how the letter will be understood universally is shown by a letter which appeared in theDaily News to-day, over the signature of a well-known Liberal writer, Mr. Chesterton, who says—
"So long as that mass of money remains unaudited, that mass of money is omnipotent. Rich men pay into it and are made Peers; poor men are paid out of it and are made slaves. But the thing is not written down anywhere, so that we can neither prove the bribery nor abolish the slavery."
Now, Sir, that seems to be almost as serious a charge as it is possible to bring against the Chief Whip, against the hon. Member who happens to be the Chief Whip of the Ministerial Party, and also a very serious charge—and this, to my mind, is the public importance of it—against the independence and integrity of the House of Commons. We heard a little time ago that it was desirable that the will of the people as expressed by this House should prevail. There will be found not a few people who will say that if this charge is uncontradicted and un-investigated that it is natural the Government should desire that form of the will of the people to prevail since they had already paid for it. I venture to submit that if the charge made by the hon. Member is untrue, it is a great outrage on the decency of public life, as well as a great breach of the privileges of this House. If, on the other hand, the charge be true—if it be really the case that there is an organised attempt to sell honours in order to corrupt Members of Parliament—then it is one of the most vital and important matters with which this House can possibly deal. That it is a breach of privilege I submit to the House is undoubted. On a less serious question in 1893 Mr. Gladstone said—
"If I am asked whether a charge of corruption against the body of Members of this House constitutes a breach of privilege, I am afraid it is not possible for me to give any answer but one, and that in the affirmative."
I propose simply to move, "That the letter of the hon. Member for East St. Pancras, published inThe Times newspaper on Friday last, is a breach of the privileges of this House, and that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the allegations made in that letter of the hon. Member and to report their opinion thereupon to this House." Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the letter of the hon. Member for East St. Pancras, published inThe Times newspaper of Friday last, is a breach of the privileges of this House, and that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the allegations made in the letter by the hon. Member, and to report their opinion thereupon to the House."—(Lord R. Cecil.)

Sir, it is a matter of sincere grief to me that I should be accused of a breach of the privileges of this House, for I regard this House with the greatest respect and veneration, as the most indispensable and essential of all the institutions of the country. The statements I have made were made, on the contrary, with the sole desire to maintain the purity of both Houses of Parliament, and especially to maintain the reputation of this House with the country. The charge that honours are bought and sold is no doubt a serious one, but the House knows well, every candid Member knows from his own private conversations and public reading, that the charge is not made now or by me for the first time. So long ago as the 16th December, 1905, theSaturday Review, although a supporter of the then existing Government, made similar charges, accompanied by names, in an article entitled "The Adulteration of the Peerage." Since then the charge has been repeated in published correspondence and in letters to the Press, whereof one signed "M.P." presumably a Member of this House, appeared in theMorning Post last Saturday, while another appears in theDaily News of this day. And during nearly two years such charges have been matter of common conversation. This is a matter which involves the honour of this House. I humbly conceive that when such charges as these have been made, have been so often repeated, are still so generally current, and have now been made the object of a Motion in this House, and of other Motions still on the Paper, it behoves those involved to claim and to secure that they shall receive due investigation by some competent and independent tribunal, possibly a Committee of this House—a secret Committee if that be preferred—with power to send for persons, papers, and records. I believe that such a Committee would be indisputably convinced that the most serious grounds and the most pregnant facts exist, giving colour to the allegations made, but I beg the House to believe that, should it happily prove to be otherwise, no Member of the House will more rejoice than I at its being established that now, as of old time, the high honours of this realm are reserved for personal merit and public service, and are not the object of sale and barter. In 1715 this House impeached at the bar of the House of Lords that famous Tory Premier, the Earl of Oxford, and the 16th Article of the Impeachment was founded upon his recommendation to Queen Anne in 1711 of twelve Peers with the object, as was alleged, of turning the then Whig majority of the Lords in a Tory majority for the greater convenience of the Ministry. By which, says the 16th Article of the Impeachment—

"The said Earl did most highly abuse the influence he then had with Her Majesty, and prevailed on her to exercise, in the most unprecedented and dangerous manner, that valuable and undoubted prerogative which the wisdom of the laws and the constitution of this Kingdom hath entrusted with the Crown for the rewarding signal virtue and distinguished merit; by which desperate advice he did not only as far as in him lay deprive Her Majesty of the continuance of those seasonable and wholesome counsels in that critical juncture, but wickedly perverted the true and only end of that great and useful prerogative, to the dishonour of the Grown and irreparable mischief to the constitution of Parliament." (Mahon's History of England, Vol., I. page 128.)
Sir, I submit to the wisdom of this House that things have reached a point when full investigation is imperatively demanded, and when an independent judgment of an impartial tribunal alone can set at rest allegations which affect the very foundation of the Constitution. Sir, I have repeated charges which the House well knows have long been current—thatsuch desperate advice has of late years again been given, and that the true end of the prerogative has of late years again been wickedly perverted. For myself, Sir, I humbly submit myself to the judgment of this House, begging only that it will believe that what I have done has been done out of the sincere and honest concern I feel for its interests, its credit, its honour.

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It is the custom for an hon. Member to withdraw when his conduct is under consideration by the House.

MR. LEA having withdrawn,

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN, Stirling Burghs) rose to address the House.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, it seems to me manifestly unjust that the hon. Member should be called upon to withdraw.

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SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN