I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will state how many of the total number of crimes committed in South Africa by Chinese coolies up to 31st July, 1907, were technical crimes and actually breaches of the Labour Ordinance, and how many were crimes in the usual acceptation of the term; how the record of Chinese coolies in this behalf, and subject to this explanation, compares with the record of other than Chinese inhabitants of South Africa for the same period; and what is the figure per mille of crime to population in either case.

Information as to the crimes committed by Chinese coolies in the Transvaal is only available up to 31st January, 1907. The crimes are classified in the monthly Returns which have been presented to Parliament, and to which I would refer the hon. Member. No classification of crimes is kept by the Transvaal Prisons Department, but a classification of sentences has been received, showing the number of Europeans, natives, Indians, and Chinese confined in Transvaal prisons on 30th June, 1906, and their sentences. Taking all sentences, the proportion to population per 1,000 shows the Chinese proportion to be about six times that of other races; but taking serious crimes—i.e., sentences of six months and over—the proportion is for European males, 3·35 per 1,000; for Chinese males, 4·36 per 1,000.

Do these figures include technical offences against the British Labour Ordinance?

Of course they include offences against the Labour Ordinance if they are punished by imprisonment.

Do I understand that the Return does not give the offences for which Chinamen are sentenced? In view of the fact that the records presented to this House contained an exact statement of the offences, misdemeanours or crimes committed, will the right hon. Gentleman see if he can get further Returns from the Transvaal to coincide with them?

said the Returns published by the Government in the Transvaal might possibly not be so full and elaborate as the Returns prepared by the Crown Colony officials under home instructions and in response to pressing inquiries in the House of Commons. He would he glad to suggest to the Secretary of State the propriety of making a request to the Transvaal Government with regard to continuing the records in question, but such requests ought to be limited. They ought not to send requests for information day by day.

The right hon. Gentleman has given no information as to crime among the British Indian subjects.

My Answer contains none.

Am I mistaken in supposing that the Transvaal is a self-governing Colony?

No, Sir.

I do not want to press the right hon. Gentleman unduly, but will he request the Transvaal Government to differentiate between actual crime and offences against the Labour Ordinances and regulations.

Order, order. There must be some limit to this questioning.