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National Insurance Act

Volume 50: debated on Thursday 20 March 1913

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Sanatorium Benefit

22.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury the number of insured persons requiring treatment for tuberculosis; and how many have been treated under the provisions of the National Insurance Act since it came into operation?

A Return showing the number of applications for sanatorium benefit for insured persons and their dependants, and the number of such persons who had received treatment, was presented on the 12th February last.

Contracting Out (Wisbech And Chatter's)

23.

asked on what grounds the Insurance Commissioners telegraphed last month to the Isle of Ely insurance committee to suspend the operation of the provisions of the Act as to contracting out in Wisbech and Chatteris; and whether the contributions of doctors who have not gone on the panel and of the servants of such are to swell the incomes of the doctors imported into this area to work the Act?

I have nothing to add to the full statement of the circumstances referred to which I have given in answer to previous questions and in the Debate in the House on 12th February last.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that was not considered to be a satisfactory answer?

I think I very fully explained all the circumstances under which the system is maintained, and I do not think I could usefully add anything in answer to the hon. Gentleman's question.

North-Eastern Railway (Approved Society)

24.

asked whether a notice has been issued from the yard-master's office, Newcastle Forth Station, North-Eastern Railway, asking workmen to give the name of the society which they have made their approved society under the National Insurance Act; and, having regard to the fact that this is contrary to the spirit and intention of the Act, will he have the necessary steps taken to have the practice discontinued?

I have no information on the subject, but if my hon. Friend desires I will make inquiries. I would refer him to the answer which I gave him to a similar question on the 11th February. It may be that, as I suggested in connection with that question, the company desires to send notice of an agreement for compensation to the society in accordance with Section 11 (1) (c) of the Act.

Out-Relief (Nottingham)

25.

asked whether the out-relief disbursed by the Nottingham Board of Guardians has increased by £29 a week in consequence of applications by insured persons entitled to sickness benefit under the National Insurance Act who have not received such benefit from their societies; and what steps the Government propose to take to protect the interests of the unfortunate tax- and rate-payers in this behalf?

I have no information as to any increase in the out-relief disbursed by the Nottingham Board of Guardians, nor am I aware of such delay in paying sickness benefit to insured persons in that city as the hon. Member suggests, though I should be happy to make inquiries into any specific cases which he cares to bring to my notice. Even if there had been such delay (of which I have had no evidence), I fail to see why an occasional delay in paying sickness benefit to persons, who would before have had no sickness benefit at all, should be the cause of any increase in the expenditure on out-door relief.

Does the right hon. Gentleman dispute the fact that there has been an increase?

I have examined the facts, but I shall be very glad if the hon. Gentleman can give me any additional fact.

Scottish Clerks' Association

29.

asked whether the Secretary to the Treasury is now in a position to make a statement about the special medical scheme under the National Insurance Act of the Scottish Clerks' Association?

The special medical scheme of the Scottish Clerks' Association is an arrangement whereby the member calls in his own doctor, who renders his bill in the usual way to the patient; the Association refunds the amount of the bill in so far as it does not exceed a certain fixed sum per visit. The Commissioners are legally advised that this scheme is not a system within the meaning of Section 15 (4) of the National Insurance Act. The Association formally applied for approval of the scheme as a system on the 20th December last and was informed on the 8th January that the application could not be considered as the scheme was not a system within the meaning of the Sub-section.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman say, in view of the deputation to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether there is any change in the position?

I do not think there is any change in the position. I think there are suggestions, which may fructify, of the desire of the Scottish Clerks' Association to be in combination with the ordinary system.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that this is a suitable scheme for making what is called "own arrangement" under Sub-section (3)?

Medical Benefit

30.

asked whether the Secretary to the Treasury is aware that members of friendly societies who were sixty-five years of age and upwards on 15th July last, or who through permanent disablement at that date were unable to become insured persons under the Act, are called on to nay increased contributions for medical attendance and treatment, and that doctors are refusing to accept such members except at a fee at least equal to that paid for insured members; and whether he will consider the possibility of paying the difference out of moneys provided by Parliament?

32.

asked whether difficulty in obtaining medical attendance and treatment is being experienced by many members of friendly societies who were sixty-five years of age and upwards on 15th July last, or who, through permanent disablement at that date, were unable to become insured persons under the National Insurance Act except by payment of increased contributions for such treatment and attendance; and whether, in view of the hardship which is thereby entailed upon such people, the Secretary to the Treasury will take steps to see that some provision is made by moneys provided by Parliament to meet the increased payment which is necessary.

I propose to take Questions 30 and 32 together. I am aware that while some societies have been able to make satisfactory arrangements for the medical attendance of their uninsured members, in some districts the doctors are demanding higher rates of remuneration than the societies are prepared to give. As I have often stated, I cannot understand why the fact that doctors are receiving an additional grant in respect of insured members should make them demand not only the increase of about 50 per cent. (which societies are generally prepared to give), but an increase of nearly 100 per cent. in the rates they have hitherto been receiving for their uninsured patients.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity of bringing this matter before the doctors?

I have been doing so. A letter of mine appears in "The British Medical Journal" this week.

31.

asked whether doctors who are engaged as assistants and have covenanted with their employers not to open a practice within a given radius during a certain term of years, are thereby debarred from serving on the national health insurance panels within the areas specified in their contracts?

Unless debarred by the terms of the private contract, the doctors referred to would be entitled to be placed on the panel.

Sub-Postmaster's Returns

61.

asked the Postmaster General if he is aware that for the first six months of the working of the National Insurance Act sub-postmasters were required to furnish the number of daily transactions which took place in the sale of health and unemployment insurance stamps; and, if so, what purpose is to be served by the order just issued for the daily return of both the number of transactions and the value of stamps issued by each office?

It is the fact that for the first six months sub-postmasters furnished the daily number of transactions in connection with the sale of insurance stamps as a basis for fixing the rate of remuneration. The deputation of the Federation of Sub-Postmasters which I received last week challenged the result of the Post Office calculation, and in fairness to sub-postmasters I considered it desirable, before arriving at a decision in the matter, to have a fresh Return prepared applicable to sub-offices only. A new Return will have the advantage of being based on the most recent figures of business, and of including the recently added denominations of insurance stamps.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give any indication when this question is likely to be settled with regard to remuneration?

Soldiers

67.

asked what benefits a soldier enjoys under the National Insurance Act to which he was not entitled prior to the passing of that measure; and whether he has received any complaints of the deductions of insurance tax from the pay of the soldiers?

In return for his contributions under the Insurance Act the soldier is entitled to the benefit that when he leaves the Colours the State provides him with the sum necessary to secure his entrance to an approved society on the same footing as if he had been a member during the whole of his military service. During such service the maternity benefit provided by the Act accrues and the soldier continues (as before) to receive benefits corresponding to the other benefits of the Act, as part of the terms of his enlistment. No complaints from soldiers have been received in the War Office.

Unemployment Benefit

43.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the form that is sent to employers asking them to state why workmen have been discharged or have left their employment is causing dissatisfaction, and that workmen are being deprived of their unemployed benefit through the statements made on the forms; and whether he will either withdraw the forms altogether or supply the workmen affected with a copy of the form as returned by the employers?

In view of the provisions of Section 87 of the Act it is necessary to ascertain the circumstances under which the workman left his previous employment, and it is, therefore, not practicable to dispense with inquiry. Where owing to the reply given by the employer, or for any other reason the insurance officer is not satisfied that the applicant is entitled to benefit, the general ground is communicated to the workman who may thereupon appeal to a Court of Referees. If the workman has claimed through an association the association has a similar right of appeal to the Umpire. In either event the case for or against the workman's claim can be fully heard by an impartial tribunal.

44.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that unemployed workmen who are members of associations that have made arrangements under Section 105 of the Insurance Act have in many instances, owing to the Labour Exchange officials not notifying their societies, to wait from two to six weeks before they receive their benefit; and whether he will take steps to expedite the payment of benefit in the future?

The arrangements under Section 105 of the Act contemplate a maximum interval in ordinary cases of about two weeks between the date when a claim is made and the date on which the decision is communicated to the associations, but in practice this interval is usually much shorter, except in cases in which delay has been occasioned by the inaccuracy or incompleteness of the claim. Every effort will be made to expedite decisions on claims, but I cannot admit that associations are necessarily prevented from paying their members promptly the unemployment benefit to which they are entitled under their own rules, by any delay which may take place in deciding whether a subsequent refund to the association out of the unemployment fund will be due in respect of any particular member.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in quite a number of instances the secretaries of associations have written asking why payment has not been made and why some communication has been sent, and they have received no reply for a fortnight?

I believe in various cases some delay occurred owing to the difficulty of dealing with the large number of claims coming in at first, but I understand we are doing our very utmost to expedite the treatment of claims.

Bristol University

33.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether the finance committee of the Bristol University in 1910 recommended the dismissal of Professors Cowl, Brooks, and Kent on the ground that their departments were reported unsatisfactory by Professor C. Lloyd Morgan; whether any explanation has been offered as to the failure of the council to act on any but the first recommendation; whether they have admitted the fitness of Professor Cowl by subsequently appointing him to a research chair which has now been allowed to lapse; and whether the right hon. Gentleman will take steps to induce the council to rehabilitate Professor Cowl?

My right hon. Friend must refer the hon. Member to the answer he gave to the hon. Member for Hoxton yesterday on the subject of appointments at universities.

34.

asked whether Convocation, the assembly of graduates, protested in the autumn of 1912 against the indiscriminate distribution of sixty-three honorary degrees in October last, including many to persons of no previous academic standing whatsoever; whether Convocation's unrestricted rights of criticism under the charter were interfered with on this occasion by the vice-chancellor and other officials, who denounced the protest as an outrage; whether it was suggested by the vice-chancellor that council decline to receive the protest; whether after a record of it had been entered in the council's minutes an attempt was subsequently made to expunge it; and whether the President of the Board of Education will take steps to secure Convocation's freedom of discussion in the future?

My right hon. Friend has no information with regard to the matters referred to in the question. He is only concerned with the work done at the university, and he does not think he can interfere.

Education Bill (England)

39.

asked if the President of the Board of Education proposes, in the coming Education Bill for England, to give powers to English local authorities to give superannuation allowances to school attendance officers similar to those now exercised by the school boards of Scotland?

Perhaps the hon. Member will allow me to postpone an answer to his question until the introduction of the Bill.

Deck Loads

40.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, as the result of his promised inquiries into the matter, he can now lay upon the Table of the House copies of any Regulations now in force in Holland, Belgium, France, and Germany, respectively, as to the carriage of deck loads of heavy or other timber by sea-going vessels owned by the subjects or entering the ports of those countries?

The replies to the inquiries made are not yet complete, and I am, therefore, not yet in a position to furnish the information for which the hon. Member asks.

British Lace Making (Hungary)

42.

asked whether the President of the Board of Trade is aware that the Hugarian Government have given Mr. Hetherington, lately a lace manufacturer in Nottingham, who has removed his factory to Raab, in Hungary, a cash grant of from six to seven hundred a year for five years towards the expenses of buying, transferring, and establishing machinery, subject only to the stipulation that after the lapse of a reasonable period only native labour shall be employed; and whether the Government proposes to take any steps to prevent the gradual transfer of important branches of British lace-making to the Continent of Europe?

In accordance with my promise to the hon. Member on 5th November last, I have obtained a report from His Majesty's Consul-General at Buda Pesth, who states after inquiry at the Hungarian Ministry of Commerce, that a lace factory under British management, which I assume to be that referred to in the present question, has been established at Raab in Hungary, and receives the benefits of the advantages accorded to new factories in certain cases. The advantages include in this instance an annual cash grant of 16,000 koronas, or about £660 for five years, but I have no information as to the precise conditions attached to the grant. So far as I am aware, this is the sole British lace making enterprise in Hungary. I do not see how it would be possible to prevent British manufacturers availing themselves of any inducements offered by the Hungarian Government for the establishment of factories in Hungary.

Is it not possible to keep the British manufacturer at home by not taxing him to death?

Town Planning Schemes (London)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the progress of the town planning schemes round London, and to the necessity for the adoption of a general road scheme in connection with them; whether he is aware that such a scheme to meet the requirements of the increasing traffic of London has been published by the Board of Trade, and that if adopted and supported financially a considerable portion of the scheme might be carried out in connection with these town planning schemes at comparatively small expense; whether he is aware that if these town planning schemes round London are allowed to mature independently the opportunity for the construction of new main roads in and out of London may be lost for ever; and will he say what steps he proposes to take in the matter?

I am aware generally of the situation referred to by the hon. and gallant Member, and I understand that the Local Government Board keep the traffic branch of the Board of Trade informed of all town planning schemes that are started in the neighbourhood of London, and such efforts as are possible will be made to discourage divergent and inharmonious proposals.

Have any special steps been taken to secure the opening of those main arteries in London?

I think it would be a great public advantage if it could be done, but there are pecuniary difficulties, as the hon. Gentleman probably knows.

Will the right hon. Gentleman try and overcome those pecuniary difficulties?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Road Board have a very large sum accumulated, and, as everybody is anxious for new roads to be opened up, could not the Government make representations to the Road Board?

The hon. Gentleman says the money is there, but that is on the assumption that the Road Board pays the whole of the expenses, which is hardly satisfactory to the taxpayers.

Scottish Office (House Of Lords)

46.

asked whether Lord Emmott has been appointed to represent the Scottish Office in the House of Lords; and whether it was impossible to secure the services of one of the representative peers for Scotland to undertake this duty?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. None of the representative peers for Scotland is or, so far as I am aware, is likely to become a Member of the Government.

Arising out of that answer, may I ask if, under the proposed Bill for the reform of the House of Lords, it will be possible for Scotland to be represented by peers of one political colour?

No doubt that is one of the advantages to be taken into account.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that the discussion of Scottish Estimates is not taken until all the reports of the different Scottish Departments have been published?

Scottish Estimates

47.

asked whether, in considering the allocation of time for Supply, the Prime Minister will arrange for at least two whole days to be given to the Scottish Estimates?

I will take the matter into consideration, and will ascertain through the usual channels what arrangements can be made.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that last Session the Scottish Estimates only received four and a half hours' discussion?

Naval Prize Bill

48.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government intend to reintroduce the Naval Prize Bill this Session?

Telephone Service

49.

asked whether, in view of the importance of the telephone to the commercial community and the public interest in that service, the Prime Minister will grant a special day for the discussion of that subject?

As the question of the telephone service can be raised on the Post Office Estimates or on any other occasion when the administration of the Department is under review, I do not think it necessary that a special day should be given for a discussion of the subject.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give us two days for the discussion of the Post Office Estimates?

60.

asked the Postmaster-General whether sub-postmasters for the last five months have been and are now called upon to issue receipts in triplicate for telephone accounts; if so, what payment he intends to make for the extra work over and above the allowance on unit scale, which covers the issue of the necessary money orders or postage stamps only; and if he will say what remuneration he proposes to pay sub-postmasters for the issue of receipts for accounts which are paid by customers of the telephone department by cheque sent direct to district offices?

I have received representations on this subject from the National Federation of Sub-postmasters, and the matter is under consideration.

62.

asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to a resolution passed by the Associated Chambers of Commerce at their conference on 12th March urging that the telephone service should be placed under a special Department, separate from the Post Office and responsible to the Postmaster-General, and that a Select Committee should be appointed to consider the question; and what steps he proposes taking in the matter?

I do not consider that the management of the telephones can be separated with advantage from the management of the telegraphs since the same buildings, poles, and underground cables are largely used for both; nor is it practicable to separate the two services from the Post Office Department. In view of the fact that Parliament has so recently dealt with the subject by legislation I do not propose to move for the appointment of a Select Committee.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman what steps he proposes to take to meet the reasonable demands of the great commercial community of this country for a more efficient telephone system?

It would be impossible within the limits of a Parliamentary reply to answer that question, but I should be very glad to discuss it when a suitable occasion arises.

Owners' Risk Rates

52.

asked whether, in view of the feeling expressed by farmers and traders throughout the country during and since the passage through Parliament of the Railways (No. 2) Bill of last Session, owing not merely to the prospective additional burden to be thrown upon them thereby, but also to the omission therefrom of all the provisions of the former Government Bill relating to owners' risk rates and other long standing and admitted grievances of such consignors, the Government will this Session introduce and carry through Parliament a one-clause Bill relating to owners' risk rates, and so afford to them some quid pro quo for the far-reaching benefits conferred by the above Act upon the railway companies for which they have to pay?

I do not know whether it will be possible to deal with the matters referred to this Session, but my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has the subject under consideration.

If there was not time in the last overcrowded Session to deal with this and others of the traders' grievances in the Railways Bill, why, now that the same pressure does not exist, cannot a few hours be devoted to this discussion?

We do not want to add unnecesarily, or except so far as is absolutely necessary, to the labours of the Session. I have not closed the door to consideration of the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some private Railway Bills are before the House in which there are Clauses to increase the owners' risks?

Labour Exchanges

53.

asked if the President of the Board of Trade is aware that the standard code for registration in use in Labour Exchanges, as set out in D.C.C. 99, is objected to by workmen who register; and whether, in view of the fact that it is impossible for the clerk at the counter to correctly fill in the particulars required, he will either modify the circular or withdraw it?

I understand my hon. Friend's question to refer to a list of abbreviations which was devised for the purpose of assisting the memories of registration clerks in dealing with applicants. On the whole I do not think that there are any sufficient grounds for discontinuing the system, which I understand has proved convenient to clerks; while it is also in the interest of workmen as a means of preventing them being sent on fruitless journeys to vacancies for which they might prove unsuitable.

Is not a workman asked a great many questions—whether he is clean or unclean, whether he is able to do his work, whether he is strong or weak, whether his eyesight is good or bad, besides others?

English Canals (Royal Commission)

54.

asked if the President of the Board of Trade contemplates, at an early date, proposing any legislation to give effect to the Report of the recent Commission on English Canals?

I am afraid I can make no promise of legislation on this subject at present.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether the Board of Trade have any views on this question?

Eyesight And Colour Blindness (Tests)

55.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in regard to the mercantile marine tests for eyesight and colour blindness, they are carried out by non-medical men; and, if so, whether this practice prevails in any other country?

The local examiners in form and colour vision are not medical men, but an ophthalmic surgeon has been added to the body of examiners to whom candidates who have failed locally can appeal. I am sending to my hon. Friend a Return which was published in 1910, which contains information with regard to the examiners who conduct the test in certain of the principal maritime countries.

56.

asked whether the President of the Board of Trade in regard to the mercantile marine, can state what means, if any, are adopted to test the form vision and colour vision of the look-out men?

The Board of Trade have provided facilities for any person serving or intending to serve at sea to undergo the same examination in vision as that prescribed for candidates for certificates of competency, but under the Merchant Shipping Acts there is no power to compel a man who is employed as a "look-out" on board ship to have passed the sight test. It rests with the owner or master of a ship to satisfy himself as to the competence of a seaman appointed to perform the duty of "look-out," and the attention of owners has recently been called to the matter, by means of a notice, of which I am sending my hon. Friend a copy.

Railway Military Reserve

41.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the Great Western Railway Company is organising what is called the Railway Military Reserve, and canvassing its employés with a view of enlisting their services with special payment to those willing to join; whether he is aware that an inspector admitted that it was the intention to use such reserve force in cases of labour disputes; whether he can say if this step is being taken at the suggestion or with the approval of the Government; and whether the statement that the men are to be used in cases of labour disputes is part of any agreement arrived at between the Government and the railway company?

I replied to a similar question last Tuesday. If there is any further information required, perhaps my, hon. Friend will put down another question. In my reply last Tuesday I said that these men were required for the Expeditionary Force.

Home Rule Bill

50.

asked the Prime Minister, if he is able to state when he intends to introduce the Home Rule Bill?

Bee Diseases

65.

asked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to a meeting of leading bee-keepers from various parts of England, held in London on the 1st March, at which further investigation into bee diseases was strongly advocated, and a resolution unanimously passed to the effect that, considering that the present knowledge of bee disease is so meagre, no legislation will accomplish any good purpose until more light and information on the subject are forthcoming; and whether his decision to reintroduce the Bee Disease Bill of last Session has been altered or modified in consequence of such meeting and resolution?

I have seen a report of the meeting to which the hon. Member refers. It appears to me that the resolution adopted by the meeting was based upon a misunderstanding; the primary object of the Bee Disease Bill which was before the House last Session was to enable the Board to obtain more light and information on the subject of bee disease. I hope next week to reintroduce the Bill, some parts of which have been redrafted in order to meet objections which were made on points of detail.

Would the hon. Gentleman tell us what is the precise nature of this bee disease?