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Royal Navy

Volume 50: debated on Wednesday 26 March 1913

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Small-Pox (Hm Ships At Devonport)

1.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any small-pox cases have recently been reported as having occurred amongst the crews of any of His Majesty's ships at Devonport other than the "Conqueror"; and, if so, will he give the names, ages, and dates of vaccinations and revaccinations of all patients, and state whether any of the cases have proved fatal?

The answer is in the negative.

Shipwright And Carpenter Ratings

2.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can give the findings of the Departmental Committee which recently sat and reported on the shipwright and carpenter ratings?

I have already informed the hon. Member in detail of the action taken with regard to carpenter and shipwright ratings. This action was in accordance with the findings of the Committee.

Was the action taken with regard to the carpenters in accordance with the findings of the Committee?

A letter is being prepared for the hon. Member, as hon. secretary of the dockyard Members which I think will cover the ground

Strength Of Fleet 1906–12

3.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will give the number of battleships, battle cruisers, armoured cruisers, first-class protected cruisers, light armoured cruisers, second-class protected cruisers, third-class protected cruisers, torpedo vessels, torpedo boat destroyers, torpedo boats, and submarines added to the fleet and placed in commission between 31st March, 1906, and 31st March, 1912, and the number of the same class of ships, respectively, put out of commision during the same period?

I must refer the hon. Member to the information given to the House in the Return issued in the name of the Member for North- St. Pancras, Command Paper, Number 537, and dated the 6th instant.

Destroyers

4.

asked how many destroyers have been completed for the British and German Navies from 1906 onwards, and how many in either case have a designed speed of thirty knots or more?

The information as to numbers will be found in Parliamentary Paper, No. 537, of the 6th instant. As regards speed, I have nothing to add to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Blackpool on 14th December, 1911.

13.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will state the number of torpedo-boat destroyers ordered by England and Germany, respectively, since 1906?

The number for Great Britain is 120, including twelve coastal destroyers that were ordered in 1907–8. The number for Germany is seventy-two.

Light Cruisers

5.

asked how many light cruisers, not over ten years launched, are possessed by Great Britain and Germany, respectively?

The number for Great Britain is thirty-two (including the "Melbourne"). The number for Germany is twenty-one.

6.

asked when the eight light cruisers, formerly known as scouts, were paid off in order that their rearmament might be taken in hand; when in each case the work of rearmament was actually begun; and what are the estimated dates for the completion of the work?

I see no advantage in entering into these details. Similar details are not available in regard to other countries. I have already given the expected dates of completion.

Stoker Branch (Pay)

7.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the average pay of the petty officers and men of the stoker branch in 1909–10 was £41 5s. 3d. per head, and that the average for 1913–14 is £41 15s. 7d. per head; and whether this average increase of less than 2½d. a week represents the full amount of the concession made to the stoker branch under the increases of pay announced in December last?

The figures quoted in the first part of the question are deduced from the numbers and money provision in Vote 1 of the Estimates, but they do not represent the extent of the recent increase of pay to the stoker class. The small apparent increase in the average rate of pay for this class in 1913–14 as compared with 1909–10 is partly due to the fact that the number in the former year is the maximum and in the latter the average. Had the average number been taken for 1913–14 the increase in the weekly rate would have appeared as 8¾d. It is, however, chiefly due to the fact that some 6,500 stokers have been, or will have been, entered on the initial rate of pay for their class since 1909–10. As the hon. Member is aware from the table set out in Command Paper, No. 6118, the increased rate of pay for stokers does not take effect till the completion of six years' service. A large number of men who will ultimately be qualified are thus at present outside the radius. Taking the number of stoker ratings who received an immediate benefit from the improved rates of pay as between 17,000 and 18,000, the average is, of course, much in excess of what has been stated.

Corporal Punishment

8.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, in view of the difficulty of giving the approximate number of caning punishments in His Majesty's Navy as had been done in previous years, he can say that one such punishment to every three boys in the Navy as deduced from previous figures would be a probably truthful estimate; whether there is any official discouragement of these corporal punishments; and will he say whether the same punishments are applied impartially to cadets as to boys of the lower ranks?

I am not in a position to commit myself to the accuracy or otherwise of my hon. Friend's calculation. The fact that the punishment of caning is limited to serious offences may certainly be regarded as a discouragement of any unnecessary use of the cane. I may remind my hon. Friend that under existing instructions this punishment is not administered in public, and can only be awarded by the captain's orders, except in cases where he is absent for over forty-eight hours, in which case the punishment may be administered at the order of the commanding officer. As to cadets, if their conduct warrants corporal punishment, they are no more exempt from it than are the boy bluejackets.

May we take it for granted that, while there is no rule against cadets being flogged, they never are flogged?

I said that if their conduct warranted corporal punishment they were not exempt.

Are cadets flogged for exactly the same or similar offences as ordinary boys in the Navy?

I would not use the word "flogged." I do not think that a blow with a cane is a flogging. At any rate, I have had considerable personal experience, and I never considered it to be flogging.

Perhaps the hon. Member will put his question in an interrogative form.

Do I understand that the proportion of boys in the lower ratings who are flogged or caned is the same as the proportion among the cadets?

The late First Lord of the Admiralty, in a reply to the hon. Member for Salford, stated that at that time one in three were caned. I cannot say what the proportion is now, but I can assure my hon. Friend that if a cadet misbehaves himself he is just as liable to corporal punishment as the other boys.

Officers' Pay (Income Tax)

9.

asked whether the Admiralty deduct Income Tax from a naval officer's pay, either on his own in come or that of his wife, pending a dispute of the amount due.

It is not the general practice to enforce deductions of amounts known to be in dispute pending decision by the Inland Revenue authorities. If the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, I shall be glad to inquire into it.

New Construction (1901–12)

10.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will state the annual amount of money expended on new naval construction by England and Germany, respectively, from 1901 to 1912, inclusive?

I would refer the hon. Member to Parliamentary Paper No. 300 of 1912.

Naval Education (Report)

11.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty when he proposes to publish the Report on Naval Education, presided over by Sir Reginald Custance?

East India Station (Hms "Swiftsure")

12.

asked if the sending of the "Swiftsure" to replace the "Highflyer" on the East India station marks a change of policy; and if it is intended to send a battleship to Hong Kong?

Sir, we think it is a good arrangement. The "Triumph" is going to Hong Kong in reserve.

Independent State Of Sarawak

20.

asked if there was any proposal that the independent State of Sarawak should follow the example of the Federated Malay States in making a contribution towards the composition of the British Navy?

Argentine Republic

14.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has received an intimation from the Government of the Argentine Republic of the proposed celebration in 1916 in Buenos Aires of the centenary of parliamentary institutions in that country?

The answer is in the negative.

Putumayo Rubber District

15.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the United States Government has now published their Consul's Report on his recent journey of investigation through the Putumayo district; and whether he will now publish Consul Mitchell's Report drawn up at the same time?

Most-Favoured-Nation Treaties

16.

asked what countries with which the United Kingdom has Most-Favoured-Nation treaties, binding on British self-governing Dominions or to which such Dominions have acceded have consented, up to the present time, to such modifications of the treaties as will carry out the wishes of the Dominions as expressed in the resolution unanimously adopted at the Imperial Conference of 1911?

Agreements have already been signed with the following countries to allow of the withdrawal of His Majesty's self-governing Dominions, if desired, from existing treaties of commerce with this country: Colombia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Liberia, Paraguay, and Sweden.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman what is the position with regard to Austria and Italy?

British Interests In Southern Persia

17.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if it has been decided to withdraw the Central Indian Horse from Shiraz; and, if so, will he explain why this regiment was sent to Shiraz, and if its withdrawal means that there are now adequate guarantees against the recurrence of disorder in Southern Persia?

As was explained in the Debate yesterday, the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; and as regards the second part, the regiment was sent to Shiraz solely for the protection of His Majesty's Consulate and of British life and property in the town. It is being withdrawn because His Majesty's Government do not consider its retention any longer necessary for that purpose.

Has any information reached the Foreign Office during the last few days that two large robberies have been committed on the roads around Shiraz?

I do not know what information has been received in regard to that, but I do not think that anything we know will alter our intention that it is perfectly safe to withdraw this regiment, which will in all probability reach the coast in safety.

May we now assume that the trade routes in Southern Persia are safe?

Perhaps the hon. and gallant Gentleman will be good enough to refer to the Debate which took place yesterday.

British East Africa (Capital Charges)

18.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been called to the trial at Nairobi Sessions, on 5th February last, of an Italian charged with the murder of a native by kicking him in the stomach; and whether, in view of the evidence and of the verdict of not guilty given by the jury, any further steps are being taken to deal with the matter?

I have only seen a newspaper account of the trial, but I am calling for a report from the Governor.

19.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of recent occurrences in British East Africa, he will now consider the advisability, in the case of capital charges where racial feeling may be involved, of replacing the present system of trial by jury by a method of trial more suited to secure the ends of justice?

The matter was discussed with the present Governor when he was in this country, and I am expecting a report from him when he has had time to make himself thoroughly acquainted with local conditions.

If the report agrees with the newspaper account of the trial, will the right hon. Gentleman give very serious consideration to the suggestion?

Ceylon (Licences)

22.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government of Ceylon is this year offering licences for the sale of arrack and toddy for a period of fifteen months instead of twelve months, as heretofore; what is the reason for this change of policy; and whether, in view of the feeling in Ceylon on the subject, he will issue instructions that licences shall be restricted to twelve months, as has hitherto been the case?

Licences are issued in Ceylon for the period of the financial year. This has previously run from 1st July to 30th June, but it will in future run from 1st October to 30th September. The present financial year ends on 30th June, 1913, and it is, therefore, necessary that the next financial period should cover fifteen instead of twelve months, i.e., from 1st July, 1913, to 30th September, 1914. It is clearly desirable that there should be uniformity in all matters relating to the accounts of the Colony, and I do not, therefore, see any reason to interfere with the action which they have taken.