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Commons Chamber

Volume 50: debated on Wednesday 26 March 1913

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House Of Commons

Wednesday, 26th March, 1913.

The House met at a Quarter before Three of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

Private Business

Private Bills (Standing Orders not previously inquired into complied with),—Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bills, referred on the Second Reading thereof, the Standing Orders not previously inquired into, which are applicable thereto, have been complied with, namely:—

  • Bournemouth Gas and Water Bill.
  • Cleveland and Durham County Electric Power Bill.
  • Herne Bay Gas and Electricity Bill.
  • Crowborough District Gas and Electricity Bill.

Ordered, That the Bills be committed.

Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Bill (by Order),

Second Reading deferred till Friday.

Liverpool Corporation Bill (by Order),

London County Council (Lambeth Bridge) Bill (by Order),

Second Reading deferred till Wednesday next.

Blyth and Cowpen Gas Bill (by Order),

Read a second time, and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills.

Metropolitan Electric Tramways (Railless Traction) Bill (by Order),

Second Reading deferred till Monday next.

Southampton Harbour Bill (by Order),

Read a second time, and committed.

Pontypridd and Rhondda Joint Water Board Bill (by Order),

Second Reading deferred till To-morrow.

Mid-Kent and East Kent District Water Bill (by Order),

Second Reading deferred till Monday next.

Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 1) Bill,

Read a second time, and committed.

Brighton Corporation Bill,

Copy presented of Report of the Attorney-General to the House of Commons on the Brighton Corporation Bill (presented pursuant to Standing Order 175 a); referred to the Committee on the Bill.

Leeds Corporation Bill,

Copy presented of Report of the Attorney-General to the House of Commons on the Leeds Corporation Bill (presented pursuant to Standing Order 175 a); referred to the Committee on the Bill.

Southend-on-Sea Corporation Bill,

Copy presented of Report of the Attorney-General to the House of Commons on the Southend-on-Sea Corporation Bill (presented pursuant to Standing Order 175 a); referred to the Committee on the Bill.

Governesses' Benevolent Institution Bill,

Copy presented of Report of the Attorney-General to the House of Commons on the Governesses' Benevolent Institution Bill (presented pursuant to Standing Order 175 a); referred to the Committee on the Bill.

Oxford University (St. Edmund Hall and Gatcombe Rectory) Bill

Copy presented of Report of the Attorney-General to the House of Commons on the Oxford University (St. Edmund Hall and Gatcombe Rectory) Bill (presented pursuant to Standing Order 175 a); referred to the Committee on the Bill.

National Debt Annuities

Account presented of the Gross Amount of all Bank Annuities and any Annuities for terms of years transferred, and of all Sums of Money paid to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, and the Gross Amount of Annuities for Lives and for terms of years, etc., granted within the year ended 5th January, 1913 (by Act); to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 29.]

East India (Income And Expenditure)

Return presented relative thereto (Address 24th March; Sir Henry Havelock-Allan); to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 30.]

Oral Answers To Questions

Royal Navy

Small-Pox (Hm Ships At Devonport)

1.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any small-pox cases have recently been reported as having occurred amongst the crews of any of His Majesty's ships at Devonport other than the "Conqueror"; and, if so, will he give the names, ages, and dates of vaccinations and revaccinations of all patients, and state whether any of the cases have proved fatal?

The answer is in the negative.

Shipwright And Carpenter Ratings

2.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can give the findings of the Departmental Committee which recently sat and reported on the shipwright and carpenter ratings?

I have already informed the hon. Member in detail of the action taken with regard to carpenter and shipwright ratings. This action was in accordance with the findings of the Committee.

Was the action taken with regard to the carpenters in accordance with the findings of the Committee?

A letter is being prepared for the hon. Member, as hon. secretary of the dockyard Members which I think will cover the ground

Strength Of Fleet 1906–12

3.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will give the number of battleships, battle cruisers, armoured cruisers, first-class protected cruisers, light armoured cruisers, second-class protected cruisers, third-class protected cruisers, torpedo vessels, torpedo boat destroyers, torpedo boats, and submarines added to the fleet and placed in commission between 31st March, 1906, and 31st March, 1912, and the number of the same class of ships, respectively, put out of commision during the same period?

I must refer the hon. Member to the information given to the House in the Return issued in the name of the Member for North- St. Pancras, Command Paper, Number 537, and dated the 6th instant.

Destroyers

4.

asked how many destroyers have been completed for the British and German Navies from 1906 onwards, and how many in either case have a designed speed of thirty knots or more?

The information as to numbers will be found in Parliamentary Paper, No. 537, of the 6th instant. As regards speed, I have nothing to add to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Blackpool on 14th December, 1911.

13.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will state the number of torpedo-boat destroyers ordered by England and Germany, respectively, since 1906?

The number for Great Britain is 120, including twelve coastal destroyers that were ordered in 1907–8. The number for Germany is seventy-two.

Light Cruisers

5.

asked how many light cruisers, not over ten years launched, are possessed by Great Britain and Germany, respectively?

The number for Great Britain is thirty-two (including the "Melbourne"). The number for Germany is twenty-one.

6.

asked when the eight light cruisers, formerly known as scouts, were paid off in order that their rearmament might be taken in hand; when in each case the work of rearmament was actually begun; and what are the estimated dates for the completion of the work?

I see no advantage in entering into these details. Similar details are not available in regard to other countries. I have already given the expected dates of completion.

Stoker Branch (Pay)

7.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the average pay of the petty officers and men of the stoker branch in 1909–10 was £41 5s. 3d. per head, and that the average for 1913–14 is £41 15s. 7d. per head; and whether this average increase of less than 2½d. a week represents the full amount of the concession made to the stoker branch under the increases of pay announced in December last?

The figures quoted in the first part of the question are deduced from the numbers and money provision in Vote 1 of the Estimates, but they do not represent the extent of the recent increase of pay to the stoker class. The small apparent increase in the average rate of pay for this class in 1913–14 as compared with 1909–10 is partly due to the fact that the number in the former year is the maximum and in the latter the average. Had the average number been taken for 1913–14 the increase in the weekly rate would have appeared as 8¾d. It is, however, chiefly due to the fact that some 6,500 stokers have been, or will have been, entered on the initial rate of pay for their class since 1909–10. As the hon. Member is aware from the table set out in Command Paper, No. 6118, the increased rate of pay for stokers does not take effect till the completion of six years' service. A large number of men who will ultimately be qualified are thus at present outside the radius. Taking the number of stoker ratings who received an immediate benefit from the improved rates of pay as between 17,000 and 18,000, the average is, of course, much in excess of what has been stated.

Corporal Punishment

8.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, in view of the difficulty of giving the approximate number of caning punishments in His Majesty's Navy as had been done in previous years, he can say that one such punishment to every three boys in the Navy as deduced from previous figures would be a probably truthful estimate; whether there is any official discouragement of these corporal punishments; and will he say whether the same punishments are applied impartially to cadets as to boys of the lower ranks?

I am not in a position to commit myself to the accuracy or otherwise of my hon. Friend's calculation. The fact that the punishment of caning is limited to serious offences may certainly be regarded as a discouragement of any unnecessary use of the cane. I may remind my hon. Friend that under existing instructions this punishment is not administered in public, and can only be awarded by the captain's orders, except in cases where he is absent for over forty-eight hours, in which case the punishment may be administered at the order of the commanding officer. As to cadets, if their conduct warrants corporal punishment, they are no more exempt from it than are the boy bluejackets.

May we take it for granted that, while there is no rule against cadets being flogged, they never are flogged?

I said that if their conduct warranted corporal punishment they were not exempt.

Are cadets flogged for exactly the same or similar offences as ordinary boys in the Navy?

I would not use the word "flogged." I do not think that a blow with a cane is a flogging. At any rate, I have had considerable personal experience, and I never considered it to be flogging.

Perhaps the hon. Member will put his question in an interrogative form.

Do I understand that the proportion of boys in the lower ratings who are flogged or caned is the same as the proportion among the cadets?

The late First Lord of the Admiralty, in a reply to the hon. Member for Salford, stated that at that time one in three were caned. I cannot say what the proportion is now, but I can assure my hon. Friend that if a cadet misbehaves himself he is just as liable to corporal punishment as the other boys.

Officers' Pay (Income Tax)

9.

asked whether the Admiralty deduct Income Tax from a naval officer's pay, either on his own in come or that of his wife, pending a dispute of the amount due.

It is not the general practice to enforce deductions of amounts known to be in dispute pending decision by the Inland Revenue authorities. If the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, I shall be glad to inquire into it.

New Construction (1901–12)

10.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will state the annual amount of money expended on new naval construction by England and Germany, respectively, from 1901 to 1912, inclusive?

I would refer the hon. Member to Parliamentary Paper No. 300 of 1912.

Naval Education (Report)

11.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty when he proposes to publish the Report on Naval Education, presided over by Sir Reginald Custance?

East India Station (Hms "Swiftsure")

12.

asked if the sending of the "Swiftsure" to replace the "Highflyer" on the East India station marks a change of policy; and if it is intended to send a battleship to Hong Kong?

Sir, we think it is a good arrangement. The "Triumph" is going to Hong Kong in reserve.

Independent State Of Sarawak

20.

asked if there was any proposal that the independent State of Sarawak should follow the example of the Federated Malay States in making a contribution towards the composition of the British Navy?

Argentine Republic

14.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has received an intimation from the Government of the Argentine Republic of the proposed celebration in 1916 in Buenos Aires of the centenary of parliamentary institutions in that country?

The answer is in the negative.

Putumayo Rubber District

15.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the United States Government has now published their Consul's Report on his recent journey of investigation through the Putumayo district; and whether he will now publish Consul Mitchell's Report drawn up at the same time?

Most-Favoured-Nation Treaties

16.

asked what countries with which the United Kingdom has Most-Favoured-Nation treaties, binding on British self-governing Dominions or to which such Dominions have acceded have consented, up to the present time, to such modifications of the treaties as will carry out the wishes of the Dominions as expressed in the resolution unanimously adopted at the Imperial Conference of 1911?

Agreements have already been signed with the following countries to allow of the withdrawal of His Majesty's self-governing Dominions, if desired, from existing treaties of commerce with this country: Colombia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Liberia, Paraguay, and Sweden.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman what is the position with regard to Austria and Italy?

British Interests In Southern Persia

17.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if it has been decided to withdraw the Central Indian Horse from Shiraz; and, if so, will he explain why this regiment was sent to Shiraz, and if its withdrawal means that there are now adequate guarantees against the recurrence of disorder in Southern Persia?

As was explained in the Debate yesterday, the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; and as regards the second part, the regiment was sent to Shiraz solely for the protection of His Majesty's Consulate and of British life and property in the town. It is being withdrawn because His Majesty's Government do not consider its retention any longer necessary for that purpose.

Has any information reached the Foreign Office during the last few days that two large robberies have been committed on the roads around Shiraz?

I do not know what information has been received in regard to that, but I do not think that anything we know will alter our intention that it is perfectly safe to withdraw this regiment, which will in all probability reach the coast in safety.

May we now assume that the trade routes in Southern Persia are safe?

Perhaps the hon. and gallant Gentleman will be good enough to refer to the Debate which took place yesterday.

British East Africa (Capital Charges)

18.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been called to the trial at Nairobi Sessions, on 5th February last, of an Italian charged with the murder of a native by kicking him in the stomach; and whether, in view of the evidence and of the verdict of not guilty given by the jury, any further steps are being taken to deal with the matter?

I have only seen a newspaper account of the trial, but I am calling for a report from the Governor.

19.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of recent occurrences in British East Africa, he will now consider the advisability, in the case of capital charges where racial feeling may be involved, of replacing the present system of trial by jury by a method of trial more suited to secure the ends of justice?

The matter was discussed with the present Governor when he was in this country, and I am expecting a report from him when he has had time to make himself thoroughly acquainted with local conditions.

If the report agrees with the newspaper account of the trial, will the right hon. Gentleman give very serious consideration to the suggestion?

Ceylon (Licences)

22.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government of Ceylon is this year offering licences for the sale of arrack and toddy for a period of fifteen months instead of twelve months, as heretofore; what is the reason for this change of policy; and whether, in view of the feeling in Ceylon on the subject, he will issue instructions that licences shall be restricted to twelve months, as has hitherto been the case?

Licences are issued in Ceylon for the period of the financial year. This has previously run from 1st July to 30th June, but it will in future run from 1st October to 30th September. The present financial year ends on 30th June, 1913, and it is, therefore, necessary that the next financial period should cover fifteen instead of twelve months, i.e., from 1st July, 1913, to 30th September, 1914. It is clearly desirable that there should be uniformity in all matters relating to the accounts of the Colony, and I do not, therefore, see any reason to interfere with the action which they have taken.

British Army

St Patrick's Day (Soldiers And Shamrock)

23.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the fact that a soldier of the King's Shropshire Light Infantry on the company parade ground at Fermoy was, on 17th March of the present year, ordered by his superior officer to remove a shamrock from his cap; whether he is aware that the soldier hesitated, took off his cap and showed the officer that it was a sprig of shamrock, and then replaced the cap upon his head with the shamrock still displayed upon it; whether he is aware that this man was thereupon placed under arrest; whether he can say what action was taken upon the case; whether any communication has been or will be addressed to the officer who acted in this fashion; and what are the regulations upon this subject?

The case is as stated in the first part of the question. The soldier referred to states that he is an Irishman. The official records show that he was born at Oldham, but the brigadier-general, who at once investigated the case, accepted the statement as to his nationality, and in view of paragraph 1693 King's Regulations, which permits an Irish soldier to wear a sprig of shamrock in his head-dress on St. Patrick's Day, ordered his release.

Officers' Training Corps

24.

asked whether permission given to a school to form a contingent of the junior division of the Officers' Training Corps is conditional on a supply of officers for some branch of the Army being maintained; whether contingents who fail to keep up an adequate supply of officers are to be retained; and whether any difference is made either in payment of capitation grant or in training between those contingents which supply a large percentage and those who supply amounts to a very small percentage of their strength?

Until the actual results in the production of officers can be more accurately gauged formation of further contingents is in abeyance except in very special cases, and the retention of those which fail to give an adequate return for the expenditure incurred in their administration and training will be duly considered. The reply to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Promotion Of Officers From The Ranks

25.

asked the Secretary of State for War on what date he proposes to publish his full scheme for the promotion of officers from the ranks?

I am not yet in a position to give a definite date for the publication of the full scheme.

Horse Artillery Conversion

26.

asked what saving will be effected by the conversion of Horse Artillery into field batteries?

The conversion of three Horse Artillery batteries to three Field Artillery batteries involves a saving of £4,800 a year.

New Artillery Scheme

27.

asked whether the changes proposed in the new Artillery scheme involve any reduction in the total number of guns; and, if so, of what number?

Royal Flying Corps

28.

asked how many aeroplanes there are at the present moment in the squadron which recently flew to Montrose which are fit and safe to attempt such a flight in peace time; and what motor or other transport for carrying spare parts and executing small repairs is now permanently in charge of this squadron?

I am informed that only one of these aeroplanes required overhauling, involving a few hours' work. The detachment has two lorries and three lighter cars at its disposal. I have answered this question since it has been put down, but would venture to point out that it is considered undesirable as a general rule to indicate the position of our flying squadrons and the machines in their possession.

29.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the number of aeroplanes now available for military purposes, he will arrange to send some of them round the Territorial camps this summer so as to give a practical demonstration to the Territorials of the capabilities of this new branch of the Army?

31.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether the decision not to adopt large airships of the Zeppelin or other similar type was made by the Committee of Imperial Defence, the Cabinet, or the War Office; and whether, in either case, there were reports from his military advisers?

The answer to this question, so far as it refers to War Office action, is in the affirmative.

32.

asked how many of the 123 officers appointed to the Royal Flying Corps have ever flown a test equal in severity to that necessary to secure the French military brevet, which calls for a flight over a triangular course of at least 150 kilometres in extent, and which is held by over 200 French military pilots?

Forty-seven officers have passed the course laid down by the Central Flying School, which, as I have previously stated, is a very exacting test. About thirty more officers will have passed the same test in the course of next month.

33.

asked what was the number of aeroplanes actually in the hands of the squadron commanders, flight commanders, and pilots officially gazetted as flying officers of Squadrons Nos. 2, 3, and 4, Military Wing, Royal Flying Corps, respectively, on 19th March, 1913; how many of these aeroplanes were on that day in a fit condition to have started at one hour's notice on a flight exceeding an hour's duration; and how many in such condition were then capable of exceeding a speed of sixty miles an hour in still air?

I must refer the hon. Gentleman to my reply to a similar question put by him on the 13th instant, to which I have nothing to add.

Land Valuation

34.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will advise the Government to introduce a Bill to amend the Finance (1909–10) Act, 1910, so as to make it clear that an owner's profits arising out of his skill and enterprise and foresight in connection with buildings and quite distinct from increases in site value, and that only when it is found that the land itself has increased in value shall Increment Value Duty be payable?

It is being considered whether any legislation is necessary to ensure that the Act fully carries out the intention of the Government in this matter.

Estate Duty Valuation

36.

asked if the congestion which has so long existed at Somerset House in connection with Estate Duty valuation shows signs of abatement; and what is the number now awaiting settlement?

The number of Estate Duty cases with the Valuation Office which on the 27th July, 1912, was 18,025 now amounts to 14,551. It is hoped that this number will be considerably reduced in the near future.

Trade Boards Act

41.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to cases of alleged evasion in Manchester of the Trade Boards Act; whether he has caused inquiries to be made; and with what result?

I have seen the reports which my hon. Friend has been good enough to forward to me on the subject of the wages paid to women homeworkers engaged in the making of patchwork quilts, shirts, and coir mats in Manchester. These trades, however, are not within the Schedule of the Trade Boards Act, and therefore the question of evasion does not arise.

Has the hon. Gentleman seen the conclusions of the report on married women out-workers, to the effect that trades cannot stand this accumulation of legislation?

44.

asked the number and names of the trades which have been brought under the Trade Boards Act, 1909?

The four trades to which the Trade Boards Act at present applies are set out in the Schedule to the Act, of which I am sending my hon. Friend a copy.

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has already announced that extension is in contemplation, and the matter is now under consideration. I cannot give any further undertaking.

Helmsdale Harbour

42.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has now completed his inquiries with regard to the dredging in Helmsdale Harbour, Sutherland; and will he see that something is done to protect those persons using the harbour?

The local agent of the Duke of Sutherland has informed the Board of Trade that the dredging of Helmsdale Harbour, contemplated in 1908, was carried out, but that he is unable to say at present if any further dredging operations will be carried out this year. If my hon. Friend will let me have any suggestions he desires to make for the better protection of persons using the harbour, I shall be glad to consider them.

Will not the hon. Gentleman insist that the dredging should be carried out?

I have stated that a former dredging of the harbour was carried out in 1908, and that the agent is not aware that any further operations will be carried out this year.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware, through his agents, that since 1908 the harbour has silted up?

Marconi Companies

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether he was informed by the Attorney-General and the Chancellor of the Exchequer that they had been dealing in the shares of the American Marconi Company before the debate on the Marconi Agreement of the 11th October; if so, whether he informed any members of the Marconi Committee of this fact; and whether he can state if he has any information as to whether these or any other Ministers have been dealing in the shares of the Argentine, Canadian, Spanish, Russian, or French wireless companies associated with the British Marconi Company?

I was informed by the Master of Elibank at the end of July or the beginning of August that he and the Attorney-General and the Chancellor of the Exchequer had purchased shares in an American Marconi Company. At a later date in August the Attorney-General repeated the statement to me, and I believe added that they had sold some of the shares, but retained the bulk of them. Both assured me that the purchase was made after the publication of the contract between the Post Office and the English Marconi Company, and that the American Company had no interest direct or indirect in that contract. That was the whole extent of my information at the date of the debate in October. The answer to the second and third parts of the question is in the negative.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he does not think it desirable that these facts should have been communicated to the House in the debate which took place at that time?

No, Sir. I confess they seemed to have no relevance whatever to the scandalous charges which were then being circulated, and I really attached no importance to them.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman with reference to the second part of the question, whether he has inquired whether the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. Booth) and the hon. Member for Forfarshire (Mr. Falconer) were in possession of the same information before they examined the editors?

86.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the British Marconi Company owned 56 per cent., that is, a majority stock in the American Marconi Company, before the issue of over 8,000,000 dollars worth of stock at par in April, 1912; how much of this stock was allotted on the application of the British Marconi Company, in view of the fact that they controlled the American Company; and whether any of the shares taken up by Cabinet Ministers formed part of the shares so applied for?

I have no official information on these matters. The fullest information with respect to the purchases made by my right hon. Friends is being given by them to the Select Committee of this House.

Development Fund

47.

asked the Prime Minister whether the proceedings of the Development Fund Board can be discussed in this House; and, if so, what opportunity will be afforded?

48.

also asked what opportunity the House will have of discussing the administration of the Road Board Fund?

An opportunity will arise for discussing these matters when the Treasury Vote is taken.

89.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether an application has been made by the Dublin County Council to the Road Board for a Grant to improve the road from Dublin to Garristown which serves an extensive district without any railway communication; whether that application has been refused without any reference to the Irish Advisory Committee appointed by the Board to advise as to the distribution of Grants for roads in Ireland; if so, why; and what purpose is served by the appointment of the Advisory Committee referred to if its advice is not even asked as to the merits of each case in which an application for a Grant is made to the Board?

I understand that the Road Board have received a resolution passed by the Dublin County Council on 11th February urging the Board "to make a Grant-in-Aid for the restoration of the Dublin to Garristown road." The Board understand that the proposed improvement is to enable a local motor-bus service to be started between Oldtown and Garristown. The road between the towns referred to does not form part of one of the principal trunk roads radiating from Dublin, and the Board informed the Dublin County Council that they are unable to make any contribution to its improvement until the necessary road crust, improvements on the Dublin-Bray road, Dublin-Drogheda road, and other trunk roads passing through the county have been completed. A committee of Irish road engineers has been recently appointed by the Board to advise them on certain technical matters, but there is no intention to seek advice from that engineering committee on individual questions in regard to the distribution of Grants.

96.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury what is the object and ultimate intention of the Development Commissioners in investing moneys, amounting to £2,500,000, belonging to the Development Fund; whether this sum and the further cash balance of £296,000 in their hands are moneys for which they have no present use or for which there is no present demand for such purposes of rural development as are specified in Section 1 of the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act, 1909; and whether the Board of Agriculture has applied for a larger aggregate amount than that which has been actually granted for its several requirements?

The object of investing moneys not immediately required for expenditure from the Development Fund is to earn interest for the benefit of the fund. It must not be assumed that moneys are being unnecessarily accumulated in the hands of the Development Commissioners. A large proportion of the balances referred to is definitely earmarked in connection with schemes of which the Commissioners have approved in principle but the details of which are still under consideration, and to meet the annual requirements over a period of years of other schemes now coming into operation which involve large expenditure. In some instances the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries has applied for larger advances from the Development Fund than have been actually recommended.

97.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury what portion of the sum of £85,391 granted by the Road Board for the purpose of widenings has been specifically allocated to and expended upon cutting off dangerous corners; and whether, considering the risk to life involved by the existence of such corners in country districts and the rash driving of pleasure-seeking motors ignorant of the locality, he will represent to the Board the urgent necessity of devoting more of the Road Improvement Fund to this object?

Improvements of corners are frequently included in schemes for widening considerable lengths of road and are also frequently described as widening in applications for Grants, and the Road Board have found it impracticable to classify such works otherwise than under the heading of "Road Widenings and Improvement of Curves and Corners." It is impossible, therefore, to state separately the expenditure on widenings at corners. The Board consider all applications from highway authorities for improvement of corners on their merits, and Grants are given in all cases where it appears to them that the conditions involve any exceptional risk of accident.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give a Grant for the purpose of cutting the hedges at dangerous corners?

I cannot give a Grant. It is given by the Road Board, which is altogether independent so far as the Grant is concerned.

92.

asked what has been the amount of the revenue that the Road Board has received since its creation; and what has been the amount of its expenditure up to 1st January, 1913?

The total revenue from all sources received by the Road Board since its creation up to 31st December, 1912, was £2,804,903 14s. 7d.; the total Grants to the same date were £508,559 4s. 3d., and the total loans £92,563. I may perhaps remind the hon. Member that, as stated in my answer to the hon. Member for the Wilton Division on Monday last, the amount of Grants indicated is very considerably in excess of the amount actually paid at present.

93.

asked what has been the amount of the revenue that the Development Commission has received since its creation; and what has been the amount of its expenditure up to 1st January, 1913?

95.

asked if the provision of cottages for rural labourers is deemed by the Development Commissioners and the Treasury to be one of the objects towards which a portion of the Development Fund may properly be applied by way of loan or otherwise; whether any application has been made to the Commissioners for a Grant for this purpose; and, if so, whether it has received their favourable consideration?

The provision of cottages for rural labourers does not fall under any of the heads enumerated in Section 1 of the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act, 1909, in respect of which advances from the Development Fund are specifically authorised, and the Commissioners have been advised that the general words at the end of Section 1 (1) cannot be held to cover economic development that is not in eodem genere and cognate with the subjects specifically named. No application for an advance for the purpose in question has been made to the Development Commissioners.

Rural Cottage Sites

49.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to the offer made by several landowners to give local authorities and other bodies the opportunity to acquire land for rural cottage sites; and whether he will consider referring the terms of this offer and other matters concerning the pressing need for cottages in rural areas to an impartial Committee, with a view to finding possible legislative means by which this need may be met at the earliest opportunity, in the interests of the agricultural community?

I have seen the offer to which the hon. Member refers. Various aspects of the rural housing question have recently been considered by a Departmental Committee, and I understand that their Report will be presented to the House within the next few days.

Committee Of Imperial Defence

50.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Imperial Defence Committee have arrived at any decision upon the question of food supply in time of war?

58.

also asked the Prime Minister whether he can make any announcement as to the steps to be taken to give effect to the recommendations of the Commission on the supply of food and raw materials in time of war?

The Committee of Imperial Defence has considered various aspects of the question of food supply in war. Certain conclusions have been arrived at as to some of these. Others are still under investigation. As regards the general question of the recommendations of the Royal Commission I can add nothing to the answer which I gave on 11th April last to the hon. and gallant Member for the Melton Division.

Has any consideration been given to the question of erecting grain elevators at the various ports?

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether the recommendations which have been received will be communicated to the House?

I would rather not pledge myself definitely as to that, because these are confidential matters, but I will give them so far as it is in the public interest.

Is it proposed to take any steps with reference to legislation during the present Session?

I do not think so, but I would not like to pledge myself definitely.

51.

asked whether all the British Dominions are now represented on the Imperial Committee of Defence; if not, how many are so represented?

None of the Dominions are at present permanently represented on the Committee of Imperial Defence, but advantage has frequently been taken of the visits to this country of responsible representatives of the Dominions to invite them to attend meetings of the Committee. All the Dominions have at one time or another been represented in this way, the most recent example being the case of Colonel Allen, Minister of Defence for New Zealand, who attended the last meeting of the Committee.

Is there any intention on the part of the Government to ask them to send any such representatives?

I have repeatedly said that proposals have been made in this matter. The hon. Member will find it set out in the dispatch of the Secretary of State for the Colonies of 10th December last.

Is it not a fact that a definite invitation was extended to the Dominion of Canada, and may I ask whether such invitations will also be ex- tended to Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa?

They have been. If the hon. Member would read the dispatch he would see it extends to all the Dominions.

54.

asked the Prime Minister, in view of the fact that the Canadian Government have been invited to nominate a representative who shall have a seat on the Committee of Imperial Defence, whether he is prepared to provide means that they may also have proper representation in decisions upon questions of foreign policy, seeing that it is upon foreign policy that questions of defencez primarily depend?

The policy of the Government in this matter is explained in the dispatch of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of Stale for the Colonies of 10th December (Cd. 6560), to which I can add nothing.

House Of Lords

52 and 55.

asked the Prime Minister (1) whether, in view of the feeling which prevails throughout this country and the British Dominions, some steps will be taken with a view to the creation of a Chamber to which all matters concerning the welfare of the Empire as a whole could be submitted; and whether he can now see his way to appoint a Select Committee to further this matter; and (2) if he will state what steps he proposes to take with reference to the reform of the House of Lords; and whether he will at the same time introduce a measure for the creation of a House of an Imperial character, the members of which shall be selected from those in the British Isles and the Dominions Overseas who have had practical opportunities of studying Imperial needs, such House to deliberate upon matters of Imperial concern, with a view to legislation in the British Isles and the Dominions Overseas?

I have nothing to add to what I have already said with regard to the reform of the Second Chamber. As regards the other matters referred to, it would be premature to make any statement, but I do not consider that they are subjects which should be referred to a Select Committee.

Ministry Of Trade And Commerce

53.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will take early steps for rearranging the business at present dealt with by the Home Secretary, the President of the Board of Trade, and the President of the Local Government Board, with a view to creating an adequate Ministry of Trade and Commerce for the purpose of promoting British trade and industry?

This is a question which has often been considered, but I see no reason to depart from the conclusion that has been arrived at that no such rearrangement is necessary.

May I inquire whether the Government is carefully considering the matter as to whether the trade of this country might not somehow benefit from the rearrangement?

Company Directorships (Ministers)

56.

asked the Prime Minister whether the practice prescribed by the late Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman on the formation of his Administration in 1905 and hitherto rigidly observed, that the holding of a public company directorship is incompatible with membership of the Administration, is of binding obligation or liable to be broken by the heads of future Administrations; and, if the position is not one of legal but merely of moral obligation, will the Government consider the propriety of giving is a definite legal sanction by the introduction of legislation for that purpose?

I think the rule is a good one, but I do not see my way to introduce legislation to make it binding on future Administrations.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the late Government eleven Cabinet Ministers held seventeen directorships, and that fifteen Members of the Administration, amongst whom was the Leader of the Opposition, held twenty-five directorships between them?

Financial Relations (Great Britain And Ireland)

57.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has ascertained how many of the witnesses who gave evidence before the Committee on Irish Finance have no objection to their evidence being published?

The answer is in the negative. The reasons were fully explained by me in answer to questions on 7th November last.

Is it not a fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave a practical pledge in Parliament last year that he would publish the evidence if approached by any considerable number of Members to do so?

That is not a correct statement. I refreshed my memory by looking at the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer this morning, and I advise the hon. Gentleman to do the same.

Foreshore Rights (Dublin)

43.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been drawn to the application of Lord Talbot de Malahide for an Order prohibiting the taking of sand from the seashore at Malahide, county Dublin; whether a sworn inquiry will be held in the matter before any such Order is made; whether a representative of the Board of Trade paid a visit to the part of the foreshore in question some days ago; whether this visit is to be regarded as the holding of an inquiry; and whether, in view of the fact that the tenants on the Malahide estate have from time immemorial enjoyed the right of taking sand and gravel from the foreshore in question, and have recently entered into binding agreements to purchase their holdings under the Land Purchase Acts, and have thus become owners in equity of their lands, the Board of Trade has any precedent or any justification for making any Order of the kind mentioned?

The Board of Trade have before them an application by Lord Talbot de Malahide for an Order prohibiting the taking of sand from the seashore at Malahide, county Dublin. The Board have no power to order a sworn inquiry in regard to applications of this nature, but one of the professional officers of the Board, in accordance with the usual practice, visited the spot on the 13th instant, and held a conference with representatives of Lord Talbot de Malahide and certain tenants of the estate who had objected to such an Order being granted. The Board are now considering the report of this officer, but, before coming to a decision in the matter, they are taking legal advice on the question of the alleged rights of the tenants to take sand from this foreshore, particularly having regard to the agreements stated to have been entered into by the tenants to purchase their holdings.

If these tenants continue to take sand from the foreshore will they be sent to prison?

I cannot give any answer upon a legal question which is under consideration.

Argentine Republic (Centenary)

60.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman will be able to take the opportunity afforded by the national celebration of the centenary of parliamentary institutions in the Argentine Republic in 1916 to promote the interests of British trade?

I shall be glad to consider any suggestions which my hon. Friend may desire to offer.

Colour Vision Tests

61.

asked whether the tests for defective colour vision approved by the Board of Trade differ from those approved by the Admiralty; and, if so, whether the Board of Trade, in view of recent scientific investigation and discussion, intend to adopt the tests now approved by the Admiralty?

The colour vision tests in force for the mercantile marine are not identical with those approved by the Admiralty. As the Noble Lord is doubtless aware, a Departmental Committee, including a number of eminent scientific men, has recently considered the sight tests for the mercantile marine, and the recommendations of the Committee have been generally adopted. The new tests based on their recommendations will come into force on April 1st.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the apparatus in use for testing defective color vision in the Admiralty is the same as that which is used by the principal railway companies in this country, and also in Germany, and if he persists in the colour tests contemplated by the Board of Trade the system will be practically unique, not only in this country but in the most scientifically advanced countries in Europe?

So far as I am aware the Report of the Departmental Committee I have mentioned is the latest scientific investigation. I may refer the hon. Member to the names of the eminent scientific men on that Committee.

Is it not true that at any rate some of the gentlemen on that Committee have long held strong and partisan opinions, if I may use such an expression, on this question of colour vision tests, and therefore are not impartial guides in a matter of this kind?

I am not aware that that is so. There are at least half a dozen scientific men on the Committee, and possibly some of them may be committed to some old opinions.

Can the hon. Gentleman give any reason for having a different test to that employed by the Admiralty?

This Committee was appointed to give us the best scientific advice they could give to the Board of Trade, and it was decided to follow that advice.

Loss Of Steamship "Titanic" (Lord Mersey's Report)

62.

asked when the right hon. Gentleman proposes to give effect to recommendation No. 5 of Lord Mersey's Report on the "Titanic" disaster, requiring the production of designs and specifications of all ships in their early stages of construction to the Board of Trade?

The Report in question recommended that the Departmental Committee on bulkheads and watertight compartments should inquire into, and report upon, various matters in connection with the sub-division of ships. When the Report of the Committee has been received the Board of Trade will be in a position to consider whether it will be necessary for them to seek further statutory powers with regard to the production of plans of ships before or during construction.

Steamship "Olympic" (Alterations)

63.

asked the right hon. Gentleman if he would state the nature of the alterations that have been made to the steamship "Olympic"?

The alterations include the provision of an inner skin, the carrying of certain bulkheads to a greater height than before, and alterations in boat stowage, so as to comply with the new Life-Saving Appliances Rules.

Will the hon. Member state whether his reference to the provision of a new inner skin is intended to convey the idea that there will be a complete inner skin from one end of the vessel to the other?

I believe it is not complete. It extends from the forward end of the forward permanent bunker to the after end of the turbine engine-room, and up to the first deck above the load water line. But the hon. Gentleman will find an adequate description of the changes in the ship in the "Journal of Commerce" of Monday last.

Will the provisions contemplated include one for the safety of all the passengers?

The new life-saving rules are designed to that end, and the alterations have been made to comply with those rules.

Will the hon. Member say which, if any, of those changes were recommended by the Board of Trade surveyor during the construction of the vessel?

Merchant Shipping Act, 1894 (Amendment)

64.

asked whether it is proposed to introduce during the present Session any Bill to modify the provisions of Section 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, so as to prevent vessels officered and manned exclusively by foreigners, as in the cases of the steamships "Indra" and "Tasso," flying the British flag?

My right hon. Friend cannot undertake to introduce in the present Session a Bill to modify the provisions of Section 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894.

65.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to introduce a Bill this Session on the lines of the Merchant Shipping (Certificates) Bill of last Session; and whether he will consider the advisability of making provision in such Bill that all steam vessels of over 1,000 tons burden shall carry three certificated mates, as provided by the Navigation Acts recently passed by the Legislatures of the United States and Australian?

My right hon. Friend hopes to reintroduce shortly the Merchant Shipping (Certificates) Bill, introduced last Session. As the hon. Member is aware, the question of legislation increasing the minimum number of certificated officers on board steam vessels is now being considered by the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee. I have, however, considerable doubt if it would be desirable to complicate the Bill, which has already been twice introduced, and possibly retard its passage, by adding new provisions outside its present scope.

Agricultural Labourers (Average Nominal Wage)

66.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman has, or can obtain, any information as to the average nominal money wage of agricultural labourers in England, Scotland, and Ireland in 1911, 1901, and 1891; whether he can state the average real wages in each case of agricultural labourers in England, Scotland, and Ireland; and, if not, whether he has taken, or will take, steps to ensure such information being available to his Department as regards agriculture, as well as all the other principal industries of the United Kingdom?

As a part of the recent general inquiry into wages and hours of labour in all industries, a Report (Cd. 5460) on agricultural labour was published in 1910 in continuation of Cd. 2376 of 1905 and Cd. 346 of 1900. This Report gives detailed information as to the total earnings, including harvest money and all allowances in kind of the principal classes of adult male workers in each county of England and Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. The general course of agricultural wages since 1880 is shown by index numbers in a Table on page 76 of the fifteenth Abstract of Labour Statistics (Cd. 6228), and the subject is also dealt with in the Annual Reports on Changes in Wages issued by the Board of Trade.

Am I to understand that there is no information which the hon. Member can give relating to the year 1911 or to the other principal industries besides agriculture?

I take it that there is nothing later. If the hon. Member will give me specifically what he wants I will try to supply the information.

Foreign-Made Barrels (Differential Marking)

67.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to introduce a Bill in the present Session to provide for differential marking of foreign-made barrels and actions proved in London and Birmingham, so as to prevent the guns made up from these foreign-made parts being passed off as sporting guns of British manufacture?

My right hon. Friend is not at present in a position to make any statement with regard to this matter.

Whitchurch Church School (Alleged Irregularities)

68.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he will obtain from the Somerset local education authority a report of the last local inquiry held by that body into alleged irregularities occurring at Whitchurch Church of England school, and will instruct the Board's inspector to visit this school and report upon it?

As I have already informed the hon. Member, I have to authority to call for the report made to the local education authority. The school was inspected in January of this year, and the Board are in communication with the authority with reference to the inspector's report. A further inspection will be made in the course of the year.

School Clinics

69.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the difficulty experienced by school clinics in that children attending at them during school hours cannot be marked as making the attendance required by the Code; and whether, with a view of encouraging parents and teachers to send children to school clinics, he will direct that attendance at such shall count as attendance at school?

Attendance at clinics for special examination are allowed by the Board to be registered and counted for grant, provided that satisfactory arrangements are made for registration. But, owing to the difficulties which at present exist in connection with the registration of attendances by children for medical treatment at school clinics, hospitals, private surgeries, and elsewhere, I am not able to amend the Code in order to allow attendances at clinics for the purpose of treatment to be reckoned for grant.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a great deal of difficulty has been foreseen, and has actually been experienced, in connection with the development of school clinics by reason of the impossibility of counting attendances in the way suggested?

Yes, I am aware that that has been stated, but I believe those difficulties will be got over very soon.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that attendances at an oculist are allowed?

Yes, but that is generally by arrangement for immediate attendance. The difficulty is connected with the hospitals, and often the children who attend are not able to be seen owing to the inadequate staff at the hospital, and consequently the children are called upon to attend day after day. I believe those difficulties will also be got over very soon.

Do the children already attend the medical clinic in the school itself or somewhere adjacent to the school?

Elementary Scholars (Infantile Mortality)

70.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that, in spite of an increase in population and a decline in infantile mortality, the statistics for the last completed school year show a decrease of the number of elementary scholars in England; and whether the promised Education Bill will be so framed as to secure that in those areas, especially in London, where school places are insufficient for the child population, there shall be immediately supplied enough accommodation for all possible scholars?

The number of scholars on the registers of public elementary schools for the year ended 31st July, 1912, showed an increase of 3,823 over the figure for the previous year, and the actual increase in numbers of scholars on the registers over five years of age was 19,635. The hon. Member will be aware that the question whether children under five, who are under no obligation to attend school, shall be admitted to any particular school is one which the local education authority have discretion to decide. The hon. Member must wait until the introduction of the Education Bill for an answer to his second question.

Bristol University

71.

asked whether the Advisory Committee on University Grants consider matters of internal economy connected with universities in receipt of public money; and, if so, whether they have made any report as to the advertisement and allocation of contracts by Bristol University?

The Committee take into account for the purpose of the allocation of grants the whole educational work of the universities, but their functions are advisory and not supervisory, and it is undesirable that the Board should attempt, through their Advisory Committee, to intervene in matters referred to in the last part of the question.

Assistant School Inspectors

72.

asked whether the assistant school inspectors about to be appointed by the Board from the ranks of the teachers in elementary schools will be of equal grade and standing and equally eligible for promotion with those who are appointed as inspectors from outside the teaching profession?

No distinction will be drawn between assistant inspectors appointed from the ranks of teachers in elementary schools and assistant inspectors, if any, appointed from outside the teaching profession in respect of grade, standing, or eligibility for promotion.

May I ask what are the qualifications required of the inspectors about to be appointed?

A circular has just been issued which defines exactly the qualifications. I cannot attempt to give the various qualifications. They would be rather long to give to the House in reply to a question.

73.

asked the President of the Board of Education how it is proposed to attract the best of the teachers in the elementary schools into the service of the Board as assistant inspectors if the initial salary does not exceed £200 a year; and whether he will consider the advisability of making the salaries of these new officers at least as high as the maximum salary of the headmasters whose schools will be subject to their inspection?

The salary offered (£200, rising by regular increments to £400 or £500), the conditions of service, the prospects of promotion, and the provisions for pension, etc., seem likely to prove sufficiently attractive to secure for the Board's service the best of the teachers in the elementary schools. I have already received some hundreds of applications for these posts, and notwithstanding the restrictions as to age and experience imposed with reference to the vacancies recently announced, it appears certain that I shall have a very large field of candidates to select from. It is not practicable to make the minimum salary of every assistant inspector equal to the maximum salary of any head teacher in a public elementary school.

I should like to know whether these appointments are new appointments or whether they are to fill vacancies?

Universities And University Colleges

74.

asked the percentage which it is estimated that the Grants from the Exchequer will bear to the total incomes of universities and university colleges in England and in Wales, respectively, for the year 1911–12?

The figures for 1911–12 are not yet available. The hon. Member will find the figures for the previous year in Table 1, Volume I., of Reports from Universities and University Colleges in Great Britain which are in receipt of Grant from the Board of Education [1912, Cd. 6245].

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the figures are likely to be available for the year 1911–12?

Shortly, but I am afraid I cannot at the present moment give the hon. Member the date.

Small-Pox

75.

asked the President of the Local Government Board whether there is small-pox in Devonport, Plymouth, and Stonehouse at the present time; and, if so, whether he is able to state the number of cases of small-pox that have recently been certified in the three towns?

No cases of small-pox have been notified recently in the towns mentioned in the question.

Derby Workhouse Infirmary

77.

asked the President of the Local Government Board whether towards the end of the year 1911 Miss Lea, Local Government Board inspector, visited the Derby workhouse infirmary and reported upon the necessity of immediate alterations of an administrative character; whether her report was submitted to the chief inspector for the district, who, in turn, submitted the same to the chairman of the house committee in a letter marked private and confidential, and in a further letter intimated that this procedure received the approval of the Local Government Board; and, having regard to the fact that each member of the guardians is responsible to his constituents, and, further, is equally responsible with other members for the expenditure of public money, whether this procedure on the part of a Government inspector in ignoring the guardians as a representative body received his sanction; and, if not, will he take steps to prevent a recurrence of such action?

The report of the lady inspector was made after a visit in November, 1912, and by direction of the Local Government Board the contents of the report were brought to the notice of the house committee by the general inspector of the district. About fifteen guardians were present at the meeting of the house committee at which this was done, and the inspector gave the chairman of the committee a copy of the report, asking him to treat it as a matter dealt with in committee. The action of the inspector has my approval. It is obvious that there are often matters which are more properly dealt with in committee and not by the full board.

Does that mean that the guardians are exempt from the responsibility of expenditure then?

Food Adulteration

78.

asked the President of the Local Government Board if he intends to introduce legislation in the present Session to prevent the adulteration of flour?

81.

asked the President of the Local Government Board whether he intends to introduce a Bill in the present Session to ensure the purity of flour used in this country and to render illegal the use of phosphates and bleaching to secure whiteness?

I have a Bill in preparation dealing with the question of the purity of food, and I hope to introduce it shortly.