asked whether the attention of the Local Government Board has been drawn to the case of a man named John Kelly, a pauper in receipt of outdoor relief of the value of 6s. a week from the Bandon Board of Guardians, who was able to pay 50s. for a pony distrained for refusal to pay contributions under the Insurance Act; whether this man states that he was commissioned to act as emergency man on the occasion, but declines to say by whom he was sup- plied with money; and whether the Local Government Board will order an inquiry into the whole transaction and the discontinuance of the outdoor relief?

The Local Government Board have made inquiry from the clerk of the union and find the relief to Kelly and his family, 6s. a week, was continued up to the 15th instant, when it was struck off by the guardians on the report of the relieving officer that Kelly had purchased a pony some days before for which he paid £2 10s., and afterwards sold it at a considerable profit. When Kelly was before the guardians on the 15th instant he informed them that he acted in the matter only as agent for another person, whose name he refused to give, and he also refused to state what profit he made on the resale of the pony. There does not appear to be any necessity for further inquiry.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how it was possible for a man to purchase from another and yet not purchase for himself?

But did he purchase for himself?

Will the right hon. Gentleman see that the Local Government Board at all events do not mean to insist upon the ratepayers paying outdoor relief for a Treasury emergency man forcing this Act upon the country?

This was the act of the local guardians.

What I want to know is whether the Local Government Board intend to interfere with the action of the guardians?

No, they do not.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if his attention has been called to the correspondence between the Newhaven Rural District and the East Sussex Insurance Committee regarding the case of Thomas Avis, an insured person, who was sent on the 16th September last, as a matter of great urgency, by the Newhaven Rural District Council to the Lewes Sanatorium, and who was on the 7th October recommended by the East Sussex Insurance Committee for sanatorium benefit in the said sanatorium, but who nevertheless refuse to pay for the treatment between 16th September and 7th October; and whether, in the interests of insured persons, he will see that local bodies shall not be thus penalised for acting on the recommendation of their medical officer of health in cases of urgency?

I am informed that before application for sanatorium benefit was made to the East Sussex Insurance Committee, or the case was in any way brought to their notice, the Newhaven Rural District Council took the responsibility of sending the insured person to the Lewes Sanatorium. Application for benefit was first made to the committee on 28th September, and the case was recommended for benefit from 7th October, from which date the committee have accepted responsibility. The administration of sanatorium benefit is a matter for the insurance committee, and I have no power to take any action in the matter.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of the question: "whether, in the interest of insured persons, he will see that local bodies shall not be thus penalised for acting on the recommendation of their medical officer of health in cases of urgency?"

I think it is very difficult for the insurance committee to make a general announcement.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think it is in the interests of insured persons to refuse to refund local authorities who have acted in cases of emergency, when afterwards it was clearly admitted that it was a bonâ fide case of emergency, and, further, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the delay was occasioned by the fact that the Local Government Board had not then approved the Lewes Sanatorium?

No, I am not aware of that, but I think substantial justice is done.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware of the terms of the maintenance contracts made by the Board of Works with contractors in Glasgow, whereby the contractor is to supply labour in day work in consideration of a payment by the Commissioners of His Majesty's Works and Public Buildings of the amount actually paid in wages to the men with an addition of 6¼ per cent. in respect of services and expenses; whether in the case of one contractor in Glasgow the wages amount roughly to £2,000 per year, so that the 6¼ per cent. out of which the contractor must pay workmen's compensation, third-party risk insurance, and the maintenance of the necessary scaffolding, tackle, tools, etc., amounts to about £125 per year; whether the insurance contributions which, under the Act, must be paid by the contractor, amount to a total of about £1 per week or £50 per annum, which represents the whole of the profit on the contract; whether the Board of Works have submitted the whole case of the effect of the Act on these special contracts to the Treasury, and the Treasury have refused to grant permission to the Board of Works to grant relief to the contractors by varying existing contracts, or otherwise; and whether, in view of the fact that the contract has been specifically framed in order to relieve the contractor of any risk of a rise in wages or in the cost of labour, and that the Government has by the National Insurance Act materially varied the conditions with a special view to which the contract was framed, the Treasury will sanction such variation of the contract as in the opinion of the Board of Works the equities of the case may demand?

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware of the maintenance contracts made by the Board of Works with contractors in Edinburgh; and of the effect upon the contractors of the addition of the insurance contributions upon their profits; and what action he proposes to take?

The circumstances referred to have been brought to my notice, but I fear I am not yet in a position to make any statement with regard to them.

When shall I put down the question again?

Oh, in a few days' time.

asked what is the total number of societies approved under the National Insurance Act in England and Wales; how many of these have their re- gistered head offices on licensed premises, and of these how many invite women to membership; whether the Insurance Commissioners have approved any newly formed societies which proposed to hold their meetings on licensed premises; and do any of these invite women to membership?

Two thousand one hundred and fifty-nine societies have been approved by the English Commission, and 241 societies, with head offices in England and Wales, have been approved by the Joint Committee. Of these 455 have head offices on licensed premises, and 248 of these admit women to membership. So far as can be ascertained, no newly formed societies, whether admitting women or not, propose to hold their meetings on licensed premises. The Welsh Commission have approved 169 societies, and have issued regulations prohibiting them from holding their meetings on licensed premises.

May I ask whether the English Comissioners do not contemplate issuing any instructions analogous to those issued by the Welsh and Scotch Commissioners?

I believe the subject is under consideration. I think it is one of the subjects which will in due course be laid before the Advisory Committee.

asked whether for ten years before the commencement of the National Insurance Act the Scottish Clerks' Association had a system of medical benefit whereby members called in their own doctors and had refunded to them by the society the doctors' fees and cost of medicine up to 4s. per visit; whether the system worked well and gave great satisfaction to members; whether, in the opinion of the Insurance Commissioners, this system of medical benefit is a suitable one through which to permit insured persons to make their own arrangements under Section 15, Sub-section (3), of the Act; whether one of the largest insurance committees has refused to allow members of the Scottish Clerks' Association to make their own arrangements under this system; the grounds of this refusal; and whether the Commissioners propose to take any steps to advise insurance committees on this subject?

I am aware that the association referred to had special arrangements for the medical attendance of their members. It is primarily the duty of the insurance committees concerned to consider whether, in view of these arrangements and of any other local circumstances, members of the association could properly be allowed to make their own arrangements under Section 15 (3) of the Act, and the Scottish Commissioners, after considering all the circumstances, do not feel justified in interfering with the discretion of the insurance committees in the matter.

Have Commissioners never taken it upon themselves to advise committees as to what they think is the best way of carrying out the Act?

I think a general circular has been sent out in respect to the various classes of persons who may appropriately be given special arrangements.

May I ask whether, in the opinion of the Commissioners, the arrangements of this society are suitable for members making their own arrangements under Sub-section (3)?

I should have to communicate with the Commissioners before I could answer that question.

asked how many members of the Territorial Force are insured persons; and what would be the cost to the State of exempting such persons and their employers, in respect of them, from all contributions under the National Insurance Act during their service in the force?

It is estimated very roughly that about 240,000 and 35,000 members of the Territorial Force are insured for health and unemployment respectively. The cost to the State of paying from public funds all contributions during service in the force instead of during training, would be roughly £400,000 a year.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether complaints are being made as to the daily routine, the quality of the food, the small amount of food provided for each patient, and the general treat- ment of patients at the Udal Torre sanatorium in Devonshire; whether this is as contemplated by the Government under the National Insurance Act; and whether he will cause an immediate inquiry to be opened into the matter?

On learning that certain insured persons in Wales who had been accommodated in the sanatorium referred to had complained as to their treatment, the Welsh Commissioners made an immediate investigation. The medical officer of the commission has visited the institution and interviewed all the thirty-one patients still under treatment, and after full inquiry the Commissioners are satisfied that the complaints are devoid of substance. It appears that certain of the patients disliked the discipline and regular routine which in the patients' own interests are essential as part of curative treatment in a sanatorium, and in some cases experienced some preliminary discomfort through being previously unaccustomed to open-air life. The Commissioners are satisfied that neither the complaints as to routine nor those as to the quality or quantity of food are justified. With regard to the latter they understand that the patients have increased in weight during their stay in the sanatorium. I may add that a number of patients on hearing that certain complaints had been made volunteered the statement that they had no similar complaints, and that in their opinion everything possible was being done for their benefit.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he has observed that, on the Committee of Selection, on the Chairmen's Panel, on the Unopposed Bills Committee Panel, on Standing Committees A, B, and C, on the Kitchen Committee, on the Select Committee on Marconi Contracts, on the Select Committee on the Putumayo Atrocities, and on the Treasury Committee to inquire into the extension of medical benefit to Ireland, the seventy-four Members of the party of which the hon. and learned Member for Waterford is Chairman receive a representation in all of thirty-eight Members, while the ten Irish Nationalists who do not belong to that party receive no representation at all on any Committee of the House; and whether any steps will be taken to redress the inequality?

If the hon. Member and his Friends desire representation on Standing Committees, I would suggest that they communicate with the Chairman of the Committee of Selection. With regard to Select Committees, as the representation of parties is in proportion to their relative numbers, I am afraid that the various parties in the House would not regard ten Members as being entitled to a separate representation on small Committees consisting of nine to fifteen Members.

Does the hon. Gentleman think it a fair representation of parties in this House that a party of seventy-four should have thirty-eight representatives, while ten Members have no representation at all upon any of the Committees of this House? Is that fair?

I think the House appoints a Committee by itself without reference to the general body of Members on all the Committees; but, with regard to the Standing Committees, where the parties are entitled to one in ten, it would appear that the hon. Member and his Friends are entitled to one Member upon the Standing Committees.

Then why have they not got it?

I suggest that the hon. Member should apply to the Chairman of the Selection Committee.

Oh, we are not going begging to anybody.

asked what were the respective sums granted to Ireland and to Scotland in the year 1912 for the encouragement of tobacco growing in these countries?

The following sums were paid to tobacco growers out of Excise revenue in the calendar year 1912 as rebate of one-third of the duty paid on tobacco grown in Ireland and Scotland, namely:—

asked when and where the Arthur Morrison collection of Japanese and Chinese paintings will be housed in connection with the British Museum, and whether there will in future be a separate department for Oriental paintings and prints?

I understand that the Morrison Collection will be transferred to the British Museum in the course of next month, and will be housed provisionally in the existing department of prints and drawings pending the transfer of that Department to the new wing. A sub-department of Oriental prints and drawings has recently been created.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the number of emigrants from this country for the year ending 31st December, 1912, and for the year 1902, respectively?

In the Returns made to the Board of Trade previous to April, 1912, emigrants were not distinguished from other passengers proceeding to countries out of Europe. It has been usual to estimate the volume of emigration on the basis of the excess of passengers of British nationality leaving the United Kingdom for countries out of Europe over the arrivals of British passengers from those countries in the United Kingdom. This excess amounted to 101,547 in 1902 and to 268,486 in 1912. The figure for 1912 is subject to correction when the revision of the lists now in progress is completed; and I may add that in 1902 the Returns were, in part, voluntary, instead of, as now, compulsory (under the Merchant Shipping Act of 1906); they may, consequently, have been to a small extent incomplete.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to adverse criticisms of the system of colour and form vision-test that it is proposed to adopt for the mercantile marine; whether he is aware that Dr. Eldridge-Green's lamp and system are in use in testing for colour-vision in the British Navy and in Germany and is used by the principal railway companies of Great Britain; whether he is aware that Dr. Eldridge-Green's system has the approval of all the members of the Ophthalmological Society with the exception of a minute minority; and whether he still favours tests for the British mercantile marine which will be at variance with those adopted in the Royal Navy, by the railway companies, and by the most progressive and scientific Continental nations?

I am quite aware that differing views as to vision-tests are held, and that no one system of test has been universally adopted. As the hon. Member has already been informed, the question of suitable sight tests for persons serving in the mercantile marine has recently been considered by a very strong Committee whose recommendations the Board of Trade propose to adopt.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the Crown entered into an agreement recently with regard to foreshore sea-turf in Nigg Bay, Ross-shire, agreeing to sell certain acres of it at a certain price and acknowledging the receipt of that sum; whether he is aware that, when the purchaser attempted to take possession of his purchase, the local landlord, the Countess of Cromartie, raised an action of interdict against him and prevented him from taking possession; and, seeing that from time immemorial the local public have used this sea-turf for local purposes without interference, will he say what steps the Crown proposes to take now to implement its part of the contract?

My hon. Friend is under a misapprehension in supposing that the Crown has entered into any agreement for the sale of foreshore sea-turf in Nigg Bay, Ross-shire. A certain individual made an offer to purchase sea-turf, and while his offer was under consideration he, without invitation, remitted the amount which he himself had named. The receipt of the amount was formally acknowledged as a matter of ordinary business courtesy, pending inquiry locally. It appears from that inquiry that the sea-turf in question is above high water mark of ordinary spring tides and therefore not within the jurisdiction of the Crown. The applicant has been so informed and the amount forwarded by him has been returned.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what expert has been sent down to view this property?

I must ask my hon. Friend to give me notice of that question.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware of the lack of school accommodation at Luton, where 58 per cent. of the elementary scholars are in fourteen departments in which the average attendance exceeds the accommodation; and what action he proposes to take?

The hon. Member's figures appear to be taken from the returns for the school year, 1910–11. Since then 570 school places in all have been added at four schools, and the Board have now before them proposals to provide 1,300 further places in provided and 300 further places in non-provided schools. The returns for the last school year show an excess of average attendance over accommodation of seventy-seven units, spread over four departments only. The overcrowding in three departments will be met by alterations now in progress at a provided school, and in the fourth by the erection of a new provided school, the plans for which have been received by the Board.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very rapid increase in population and the development of house property in Luton and is he keeping the local authorities up in pace with the demand?

The facts are well known both to the local authority and the Board of Education.

Are you doing your duty?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether the standard of the examination test or the standard for obtaining the certificate is higher for acting teachers than for teachers in the training colleges?

The standard which candidates are required to reach as a condition of obtaining the certificate is not intended to be, and is not, in fact, in the Board's opinion, higher for acting teachers than for students in training colleges. But an exact comparison between the two examinations is impossible as the conditions under which they are held necessarily differ widely.

asked whether the standard in the acting teachers' examination has been raised in recent years; if so, when it was raised, and what the standard now is?

The standard for a pass in the acting teachers' examination was raised a little in each of the years from 1907 to 1910. It has not been raised in the last two years. It is impossible to state what the standard is within the limits of an answer. The standard of an examination depends on the character of the questions set and on the degree of proficiency looked for by the examiners in the answers of candidates.

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean that the standard was raised in 1907 and again in 1908, higher than the previous year, and again raised in 1909–10?

The answer is in the affirmative.

asked whether the present high standard required in the acting teachers' examination is asked for in order that there may he a restriction in the number of passes, in order to induce acting teachers to seek admission to the training colleges?

The present standard in the acting teachers' examination is required because it is considered by the Board to be the minimum standard which should entitle a candidate to receive a certificate and is not imposed for any other reason.

asked the President of the Board of Education if the education scheme outlined by the Lord Chancellor on Tuesday last at the annual conference of the National Union of Teachers represents the settled policy of the Government in respect of national education; and, if so, whether he can state what part, if any, of such scheme it is proposed to carry through by means of legislation this Session?

I must refer the hon. Member to the report of the Lord Chancellor's speech, in which he stated clearly that he was not in any way outlining the Government's proposals.

Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to introduce any Education Bill in this Session?

Yes.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is in agreement with the resolution recently passed at the annual conference at Bangor of the School Attendance Officers National Association, to the effect that the experience of attendance officers is the best possible preparation and qualification for the post of executive officer under the Education (Choice of Employment) Act, 1910; and, if so, whether he will reconsider the decision, recently embodied in a Departmental circular, that the possession of a university degree is necessary for the holders of such offices?

I have no reason to suppose that the local education authorities who appoint executive officers under the Choice of Employment Act do not appreciate the qualifications of attendance officers for the posts, and I do not think it is necessary or desirable for me to express any opinion on the point. The Board have never even suggested that the possession of a university degree is a necessary qualification for the holders of such posts.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether, when requested by local education authorities, he has allowed the time spent by school children in attending the oculist's surgery to be reckoned towards the minimum period required under Article 43 of the Code for the purposes of a Grant; and, if so, whether he can see his way to allow the time spent by school children in attending the school clinic, on or adjacent to the school premises, provided by the local education authority for the treatment of other ailments, to be reckoned towards the minimum period required under Article 43 for the purposes of a Grant?

With regard to the first part of the question, in certain exceptional cases attendances of school children at oculists' surgeries have been allowed to be reckoned for purposes of Grant. With regard to the second part of the question, I explained the difficulties in connection with the registration of attendances of children for medical treatment at school clinics, hospitals, private surgeries, and elsewhere in answer to questions on this subject yesterday, and I am afraid I can add nothing to the information I have al ready given.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the case of a child who is deaf and is unable to benefit by the Education Department's school will be treated in the same way as a child who happens to be short-sighted? It seems to me to be rather illogical to make a distinction.

It is a question with regard to medical inspection under the terms of the Act, and depends upon technicalities of that kind as to whether deafness can be treated in exactly the same way as children are treated who go to oculists.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the issue of an Order allowing children attending a school clinic to be absent for a maximum number of hours per week, say, two hours per week, which would include a large number of cases and rule out those where absence would really be detrimental? Will he consider that proposal?

I will certainly consider it. The whole matter is receiving our careful consideration, and we wish to get over the difficulties I have already mentioned.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that a man and his son who have been working since December, 1911, three acres of land at Woodham Ferris, in Essex, tithed at 3s. 9d. per acre, were served with a demand in October, 1912, for £18 17s. 11d., being a half-year's tithe on the whole estate; whether he is aware that their goods and crops are being distrained upon to pay other people's debts; and whether he intends to take any action to amend the law dealing with such cases?

Under Section 81 of the Tithe Act, 1836, the tithe-owner is entitled to collect, from any one of the owners of the tithe area, the tithe rent-charge in respect of the whole area, an owner so charged having the right under Section 16 of the Tithe Act, 1842, to recover contributions from the other part-owners. The Board have no power to intervene in the collection of annual tithe rent-charge, but they are empowered, on the application of a part-owner of a tithe area, to make a reapportionment of the charge so as to limit his liability to the land owned by him. An application for reapportionment was recently received, apparently from the landowner referred to in the question, but this cannot affect the collection of the tithe rent-charge now accruing. The reply to the last part of the question is in the negative.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the case of Mr. T. Herbert, of 134, Farringdon Road, E.C., who was bound over on his own recognisances to keep the peace for six months, on 3rd December, 1912, at Bow Street Police Court, and was also ordered to find a surety of the sum of £10 that he would keep the peace for six months, or in default to be imprisoned for one month, and that he was given by the magistrate, Mr. Marsh, two days in which to find a surety; whether he is aware that Mr. Herbert was arrested within twenty-seven hours of the magistrate's decision, and committed to Pentonville Gaol, where he remained until 6th December; and whether some compensation may be granted to Mr. Herbert in view of his unauthorised imprisonment by which he lost considerably in business?

This matter has been carefully considered, and, on making inquiry into the facts, I have found no sufficient ground for intervention on my part. The imprisonment was in pursuance of an order made by the magistrate after defendant had failed to find a surety for good behaviour and was authorised by law.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has done anything to meet the complaints of safety-lamp manufacturers that they are charged a high fee for having lamps tested, whilst for testing lamps in Germany, France, and Austria there is no charge, and that the testing station is not accessible and causes inconvenience; and will he say under what Statute the Government have power to levy fees for testing safety lamps?

It has been found possible, in view of the large number of lamps which the makers propose to submit, to make substantial reductions in the fees as originally fixed. The fees are so fixed as merely to cover the expenditure actually incurred in connection with the testing of a lamp, and no statutory authority is required for charging the fees. The testing station was established at Eskmeals because the Home Office already had an experimental station there, and the work could be carried out more economically for the makers as well as more conveniently for the Department than if the Home Office had had to acquire a special site and appoint a special staff. It may be possible later on to make arrangements for its transfer to a more central spot.

asked the right hon. Gentleman whether certain refreshment caterers are adopting the Shops Act, 1912, for one section of their employés and the Act recently passed for another section; and whether he proposes taking any action in the matter?

I have no information on this subject other than that supplied to me by my hon. Friend. The agreement which he has been good enough to send to me made by the management of a well-known hotel in regard to the kitchen staff of the hotel appears to be an agreement outside the provisions of the Shops Act, 1913. I would add that the administration of the Act rests, not with the Home Office, but with the local authority, and any representations as to cases in which it is alleged the Act is being infringed should be made to them.

Seeing that the hotel proprietors and restaurant keepers refused to work the 1911 Act, and that the amending Act of this year was passed at their instance, cannot the Home Office do something to make them obey an Act which they themselves were instrumental in producing?

I am afraid not. The responsibility for enforcing the Act does not lie with the Home Office, but with the local authorities.

Has the Home Office no power to set the pace for the local authorities?

I am afraid not. That would not be in accordance with the actual terms of the Act.

Cannot you get power?

Not except by law.