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Air Raids In Germany

Volume 101: debated on Tuesday 22 January 1918

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British And French Prisoners Of War

9.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he has any information to the effect that hundreds of British and French officers, prisoners of war, have been sent to Stuttgart or other places in order to be subjected to air raids; and whether he will consider the desirability of sending German officers, prisoners of war, from Donington Hall and elsewhere to London or other places where they will be subject to the risk of German air raids on noncombatants and women and children, and of utilising Donington Hall as a hospital for our wounded soldiers?

Inquiries are being made as to the establishment of camps for prisoners of war in Germany in places particularly liable to air raids.

Do I understand my hon. Friend to say that inquiries are being made as to prisoners of war in this country?

No; I did not intend to convey that. I do not think my hon. Friend can take any other than the answer I?have given. We are trying to substantiate certain rumours which have reached us as to the placing of our prisoners of war in air-raided parts of Germany.

Can the hon. Gentleman state now that, if we discover this to be so, we shall act by way of reprisals?

I think the Air Minister has already made a definite statement upon that point.

East Africa (Operations)

13.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether, considering that the dispatches of General Smuts and General Hoskins regarding the operations in East Africa have been published, the time has now arrived when the dispatches of General Tighe regarding the operations during the preceding year can also be published?

There are three reports by General Tighe, which are presumably those alluded to. Each deals with a brief and minor phase of the earlier operations in East Africa, and, as such, were not regarded by the late Lord Kitchener, when Secretary of State for War, as suitable for publication. In view of the subsequent scope of the campaign—which has been described fully in the dispatches of General Smuts and General Hoskins—there seems no reason to revise this decision. All recommendations for honours and awards contained in General Tighe's reports, and in the many similar reports relating to these early phases of the War in Africa, have long since been considered and suitably treated. No officer or man, therefore, suffers by their non-publication. To select General Tighe's reports for publication would involve an invidious distinction between them and the numerous other reports mentioned. The good preparatory work done in East Africa by General Tighe has been cordially acknowledged in General Smuts? first published dispatch.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that officers and men who were engaged in all these operations during the first two years feel aggrieved that there has been no account of the operations published? Will he kindly issue a dispatch describing them?

I am afraid I cannot add anything to the answer I have given. The matter has been carefully considered.

Lady Angela Forbes

3.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Lady Angela Forbes at the beginning of the War established a canteen at Etaples; that she has since that date laboured unremittingly for the benefit of British soldiers in France; and that she has recently received orders to close her canteen; whether the military authorities make any charges against Lady Angela Forbes; and, if so, whether she will be given an opportunity of being heard in her own defence?

Lady Angela Forbes established a canteen at Etaples at the beginning of the War, and did useful work. Complaints were made from various sources, and the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief decided that it was inadvisable that she should continue her work there. This decision has been upheld by the Army Council.

Is my hon. Friend aware that on 11th October the Secretary of State for War gave a promise in writing to Lady Angela Forbes that she should be heard in her own defence? Is he aware that this opportunity has not been given to her; that she has been given no opportunity of hearing the evidence against her, of giving evidence herself, or of calling witnesses on her own behalf; and what is the explanation that the promise of the Secretary of Stat3 has not been carried out?

From the supplementary question of my hon. Friend the House might be led to assume that Lady Angela Forbes was promised a Court of Inquiry which has not been granted even to soldiers. The Secretary of State promised no such thing. He said that she would be heard in her own defence As a matter of fact, Lady Angela Forbes had an opportunity of being heard in her own defence in the sense in which the Secretary of State meant. She had an interview, on the Secretary of State's instructions, with the Adjutant-General in France, when certain complaints, not formulated into charges, were made against her. She had then the opportunity of stating her defence, if she wished to do so.

Arising out of that reply, is my lion. Friend aware that this interview—if it was considered to be an investigation—was an absolute farce, and a traversty of justice; that no evidence was produced against Lady Angela Forbes, that she was not asked what was her defence, and that she has had no opportunity up till now of stating her own case?

As I have pointed out, she had the opportunity of saying what she had to say in her own defence. The Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief asked the Adjutant-General to make all inquiries and a thorough investigation. It was after this investigation that the interview promised to Lady Angela Forbes took place. It was only after he was satisfied that that investigation had been held that the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief made up his mind—and the Army Council subsequently agreed with him—that Lady Angela Forbes should no longer continue in her work.

May we assume that there have been no complaints from soldiers themselves as to the conduct of this canteen?

Not necessarily. If my hon. Friend presses me, there are other complaints.

Soldiers' Leave

16.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he is aware that soldiers home on leave reaching Exeter after seven o'clock on Saturday night cannot, owing to lack of train accommodation, reach their homes in North Devon until Monday morning unless conveyed by motor vehicles; whether he is aware that free petrol for this purpose has been refused by the military authorities and a request to have petrol supplied by payment has been ignored, consequently men home for a short respite from France will have to hang about Exeter for thirty-six to forty hours unless petrol is obtainable; and will petrol therefore be made available for the purpose of getting men to their homes at the earliest moment?

In view of the drastic restrictions on petrol I am afraid that it is not possible to grant this concession without raising similar claims all over the country. I would suggest to my right hon. Friend that a solution might be found in the fitting of some of the vehicles to consume gas.

Is the lion. Gentleman aware that these soldiers offered voluntarily to pay for the petrol, and surely the military authorities should be allowed to provide petrol under those circumstances?

Similar cases have occurred in that part of Scotland with which I am connected.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that the awkward position these men find themselves in constitutes a very good reason why an extension of leave should be made in their case?

In all reasonable cases of delay the War Office is always anxious to give further leave if possible.

Is the hon. Member aware that soldiers on leave in Bangor cannot stay until Monday morning without their leave being extended by two days?

Welsh Division (Command)

17.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he can say if any and, if so, how many of those in command of battalions in the Welsh Division are Welshmen; and whether the officers recently appointed have during the last three years had actual experience of leading troops in battle?

This information can only be obtained from the military authorities in France, and I am reluctant to add to their labours by inquiring, unless my right hon. Friend presses the matter.

I covered that point in my answer, but if the hon. Member insists upon adding to the already heavy labours of the people at the front in France I will inquire again.

Does he not think these questions are suggested by those who know what is going on at the front, and surely this is a matter of some consequence not only to the men themselves, but also to the country?

My hon. Friend is not now seeking information, but he is supplying it.

With regard to the percentage of Welshmen, will the hon. Gentlemen supply the figures?

Venereal Poisons (British Troops)

18.

asked whether it is proposed to take any further steps to stop the spread of infection by venereal poisons among British troops; whether there is any Army Order which forbids or discourages the necessary prophylactic medical measures; and whether it is proposed to issue an Army Order instructing Army medical officers of superior rank to take the necessary action as a part of their regular medical duties?

There is no Army Order authorising the use of such preventives or forbidding them. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that the time has arrived when the prejudices of purists in morality should no longer be allowed to diminish the effective man-power of the Army?

I think my hon. Friend would be the first to recognise that this is really a national question and not so much a military question.

Brigadiers (Seniority)

19.

asked whether a brigadier appointed to command a brigade in 1917 or 1918 becomes senior in the field to a brigadier whose appointment dates from 1914, 1915, or 1916, if the former was senior to the latter in the Army List prior to the War; and, if not, when the alteration was made in the Regulation affecting such seniority?

Brigadiers rank according to their substantive rank, and not according to the date of their appointment. This Regulation was in force several years before the outbreak of war.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that the time has come to reconsider this question?

Is it not a fact that if brigadiers did not rank according to their substantive rank, those who come home wounded would lose their seniority on receiving fresh appointments?

That is so. With regard to my hon. and gallant Friend's question, this subject has been considered quite recently.

Army Ordnance Workers (Dublin)

21.

asked when the Army Ordnance workers in Dublin may expect an increase in wages?

I am waiting for further information from the Irish Command, and I hope to be able to announce a decision shortly.

Colonial Troops (Gallipoli)

22.

asked whether any decision has yet been arrived at with reference to the issue of a medal or decoration to Imperial or Colonial troops in connection with the operations in Gallipoli?

This matter is receiving sympathetic consideration by the Imperial and Dominion Governments, but no conclusion has been reached.

Is it not a fact that a month ago I was informed that this matter was receiving sympathetic consideration, and could he say when a decision is likely to be arrived at?

That is perfectly true, but it is an extremely difficult question, involving a good deal of interviews and correspondence with the various Governments concerned. It also raises a very delicate point. I promise my hon. and gallant Friend that I will communicate with him when I get the information.

Is there any precedent for the issue of a decoration or medal for a campaign of this kind, which cannot be said to have resulted in victory?

Soldiers (Parliamentary Candidates)

23.

asked whether soldiers serving with the Colours are allowed to belong to a political party or to attend political meetings; whether a soldier if adopted as a Parliamentary candidate would be allowed to take any steps to further his candidature; and, in view of the entirely changed character of the present Army, whether the War Office intend to take steps to modify or abolish the old restrictions?

The War Cabinet, as I stated in an answer to a question by my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling Burghs on 8th August last, have decided that paragraph 451 of the King's Regulations is to be strictly and impartially enforced; but if an election is pending and a soldier is adopted as a candidate, special furlough would be granted to him to promote his candidature.

Does the hon. Gentleman not realise that his answer means that no officer or man at present serving in the Army can be adopted as a prospective candidate; cannot some exceptions be made?

That is not the case; because there is an officer at the present moment who has been adopted as a candidate for one of the divisions of Lancashire (Prestwich) represented by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

Is it possible for the Secretary for War to stand as a candidate, while if a man wishes to stand as an independent candidate to oppose a Government nominee he cannot get permission?

I hope my hon. Friend will do me the honour of reading to-morrow the answer which I have given.

An election may be pending at any moment. There is one pending now in which an officer is a candidate.

Does the hon. Member mean adopted by a political party or by a constituency?

In the event of it being desired to adopt an officer or a soldier as a prospective candidate, will he be permitted, when on leave, to go before an association?

I think that point is covered by the answer which I have given: I am assuming that an officer or a man would not seek to take part in polities unless it were absolutely necessary, and I think the fairest of all ways of getting out of a very difficult situation is to say that an officer or a man, if an election is pending, shall be allowed to get the necessary leave and facilities for pursuing his candidature.

Chelsea Barracks (Death Of Private Davey)

24.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he has obtained the report as to the circumstances in which Private Charles Francis Davey, Reserve Battalion, Grenadier Guards, was found with his throat cut at Chelsea Barracks on 28th December; whether he is aware that this soldier, on complaining to the medical officer of illness, was charged with malingering, given two days' C.B., including, in breach of the King's Regulations, two hours at a stretch punishment drill; whether he is aware that Dr. Spilsbury certified at the inquest that this soldier suffered from disease of the heart muscle, fatty degeneration, and atrophy; why, in view of this verdict, the man was punished for pleading illness; and what action it is intended to take in respect of the medical officer in charge of Chelsea Barracks who signed the order for the man's punishment?

I have just received a report from the commanding officer, which is now being considered.

National Registration (Amendment) Bill

25.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War to what practical extent, in view of the limitations in its operation announced by the Government and assuming that the National Registration (Amendment) Bill now before the House passes into law, soldiers holding discharge papers ex facie final are liable to be medically re-examined and recalled to active service?

My hon. Friend has asked me to reply. The National Registration (Amendment) Bill does not in any way affect the liability of discharged soldiers to be medically re-examined or recalled to active service. As my right hon. Friend the Minister of National Service stated in his speech to this House on the 14th January:

"This is not designed to make them more available for Military Service, to make it easier to provide them with work of National Importance."
As regards men who have served in the Navy or Army and who have been discharged on the ground of disablement or ill-health, I would refer my hon. Friend to the important answer which I gave yesterday to the hon. Member for East Edinburgh.

Receiving Depot, Dublin

27.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office what progress has been made towards establishing the temporary examining and receiving depot in Dublin; and whether he has received a resolution from the St. Patrick's Division United Irish League executive asking that the depot shall be put into operation at once?

The premises of the Dunlop Rubber Company have been selected, and the necessary steps are being taken to adapt them as a receiving depot. I have not received the resolution to which the hon. Member refers.

Naval And Military Pensions And Grants

28.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in the event of the death of a soldier who has not received his increased pay, his representatives will be entitled to get it?

If a man who has not declared that he desires to reduce his allotment by the amount of the concession becomes a casualty, mill the separation allowance for twenty-six weeks after his death be increased by the amount of the concession?

32.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether it is to be understood that no alterations will be made in any grants already allocated by the Civil Liabilities Committee to officers, non-commissioned officers, and men, and thus minimise the value of the recent concessions in pay and allowances?

Kut-Al-Amarah (Compensation For Officers' Losses)

30.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether compensation to officers for chargers slaughtered for food and kit lost or destroyed during the siege of Kut-al-Amarah, in Mesopotamia, will be paid by the War Office or the Government of India?

Army Pay (Compulsory Reductions)

31.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in view of the recent increases of pay and allowances to the Army, he will now bring forward such amendments to Section 145 of the Army Act as will enable an adequate sum to be compulsorily deducted for the support of deserted wives and illegitimate children?

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that 6d. a day is enough in these times for a wife to live on?

I am asked whether or not I will bring forward an amendment of Section 145 of the Army Act, and I say the answer is in the negative.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Section allows only 6d. a day to be deducted from a man's pay in order to support a wife, and is not the Government prepared to take any steps in the matter?

School Teachers (Scotland)

39.

asked the Secretary for Scotland whether payment has yet been made to all the school teachers under the school boards, and also in the voluntary schools in Scotland, of the increases in salary allocated under the recent Grant?

I have no precise information at present as to the number of cases in which the increases of salary have been paid to teachers. It may, however, be assumed that payment has been made or will be made forthwith wherever the scheme for the allocation of the Grant has received the approval of the Scotch Education Department. Such approval has been given to the proposals of nearly 700 bodies of managers and the outstanding schemes are being dealt with as expeditiously as possible.

Will the hon. Gentleman say whether the school board teachers and the voluntary school teachers are to be treated in precisely the same way so far as this increase is concerned?

Government Ordnance Workers (Ireland)

40.

asked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether the Government ordnance workers in Ireland receive 29s. per week whilst men in Woolwich are paid 47s.; whether he will have this inequality remedied; and whether it is intended to have the Ordnance Survey of Ireland placed under the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction in Ireland?

The civil assistants and labourers of the Ordnance Survey are employed in the production of the national maps and are not concerned in the manufacture of ordnance. Their work is of a totally different nature from that of the workmen in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich. There is only one man now working on the Ordnance Survey in Ireland whose nominal six-day pay is less than 30s. He is a night watchman, who receives 27s. a week for six days, plus 4s. 6d. for each Sunday, plus 14s. war bonus. His total weekly pay is thus 45s. 6d. The answer to the latter part of the question is in the negative.

British Trade Overseas

44.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if the Joint Committee for Furtherance of British Trade Overseas will consider the advisability of adding to its number a representative or representatives of the commercial travellers of Great Britain and Ireland, also co-opting representative commercial travellers in His Majesty's Dominions and Dependencies Overseas, whose expert knowledge of the art of salesmanship would add greatly to the usefulness of the Committee in question; if so, when this will be done; and, if not, will he state the reason?

I presume that the question asked by my hon. Friend relates to the Advisory Committee to the new Joint Department of Overseas Trade (Development of Intelligence). It is intended that this Committee shall represent as fully as possible the various British industrial, commercial, and financial interests concerned with overseas trade. My hon. Friend will, I am sure, recognise that the number of members of the Committee must be limited, so as to secure efficient and practical working, and. in view of the numerous interests to be taken into account, it is impossible at the present time to give any definite undertaking as to the separate representation of any particular class.

Surely there should be some better reason for the exclusion of a class so closely related to trade than mere numbers. Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the question whether the Committee will consider the advisability of including some representation of commercial travellers?

Certainly we will consider the advisability, and, in any case, the hon. Gentleman may rest assured that we would be delighted to keep in touch with them, so as to get the best possible benefit from their experience and knowledge of conditions.

Coloured Troops

55.

asked the Minister of National Service whether he will urge upon the War Office the need to employ coloured men in the fighting line and so release skilled workmen from the Army for employment in the shipbuilding yards, engine shops, and mercantile marine; whether, as there are many coloured men from Africa in the Labour Battalions in France, it has been proved that they can stand the climate; and whether many coloured men are anxious to fight for the British flag, but have not been permitted to do so?

My hon. Friend has pressed this question on more than one occasion, and I can assure him that the question of the employment of coloured men in the fighting line has received, and is now receiving, the most careful consideration. Every possible use is being made of their services in the various theatres of war.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that I have been pressing this question on the notice of the War Office since October, 1914, and that if my suggestion had been adopted, and the great reservoir of fighting men in South Africa had been drawn upon—

The hon. Member is making a statement with regard to his own action, and is not asking a question.

May I ask whether, if the great reservoir of fighting men in South Africa had been drawn upon, it would not have been of very great effect and have had a beneficial bearing on the question of man-power in this country?

Is it the case that the recruiting of black men from South Africa has been stopped by the order of the hon. Gentleman's Department?

Commercial Travellers (Railway Fares)

58.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether week-end railway tickets at the pre-war fares are still being issued to commercial travellers in Ireland; and, if so, why these tickets are not granted to commercial travellers in Great Britain, seeing that the railways are under the same national control?

I am aware that week-end railway tickets are still issued at pre-war fares to commercial travellers in Ireland, but the difficulties which led to the withdrawal of this privilege in Great Britain do not exist in Ireland to the same extent.

Is there any reason why commercial travellers in Ireland should be granted more favourable consideration than commercial travellers in Great Britain?

Discharged Soldiers (Workmen's Compensation Act)

57.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he proposes to take any steps to overcome the difficulty of discharged disabled men securing employment owing to the reluctance of employers to employ them under the Workmen's Compensation Act; and whether any changes are proposed in that legislation?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply to this question. The matter referred to is under consideration between the Home Office and the Ministry of Pensions, and I am not at present in a position to make any statement.

Titles Deprivation Act

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the Titles Deprivation Bill having received the Royal Assent on 8th November, 1917, and the pledge given by the Home Secretary on the Third Reading he will inform the House what action is to be taken under the powers conferred by the Act?

The reply given to the hon. Member for South Donegal on the 6th December last on this subject covers all the information now asked for by the hon. Member.

Perhaps the hon. Member will look at the Act, and he will see from the answer I gave that the Act is being carried out.

Lord Chief Justice

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the fact that the present salary of the Lord Chief Justice is £8,000 per annum, and the salary of Ambassador to the United States is £10,000 per annum, with allowance for clerk hire £475; whether the Lord Chief Justice will receive both of these salaries during the period when he represents Great Britain in the United States of America; if not, which salary he will receive; and whether the other or any portion of it will be paid for the performance of his judicial duties during his absence from the Kingdom?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on the 17th instant to the hon. Member for North Somerset. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Government Offices (Increased Accommodation)

47.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to the list of demands for increased accommodation which the First Commissioner of Works has stated he has received from Ministers; and whether the Government will delay the commandeering of any further buildings and the erection of any new temporary buildings on the open spaces of London until the Committee of business men who are to inquire into the staffing of Government offices has made its Report, in view of the fact that these demands for increased accommodation are chiefly due to increases in clerical staff?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the second in the negative. It is impossible to delay the provision of the accommodation stated by responsible Ministers to be necessary for the work of their Departments

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the universal horror at what has been going on, and the example set to the public; cannot he to some extent reconsider his answer and delay some of the least important increases asked for?

The Government quite recognise the importance of having this matter gone into, and are taking what steps they can, but meantime my right hon. Friend himself takes care that a good case is made out before increased accommodation is given.

Russia

49.

asked the Prime Minister whether Russia is still allied with us in the War; and, if not, whether he is prepared to make any statement as to the position of the Military Convention for mutual Conscription?

As regards the first part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which he received to a similar question yesterday. The second part, therefore, does not arise.