House Of Commons
Wednesday, 6th March, 1918.
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the clock, MR. SPEAKER in the Chair.
Private Business
Brentford Gas Bill (by Order), Cannock Gas Bill (by Order), Hampton Court Gas Bill (by Order), Liverpool Gas Bill (by Order), Longwood and Slaithwaite Gas Bill (by Order), Yeadon and Guiseley Gas Bill (by Order), Cardiff Gas Bill (by Order), Commercial Gas Bill(by Order), Gas Light and Coke Company Bill (by Order), Hastings and St. Leonards Gas Bill (by Order), Maidenhead Gas Bill (by Order), Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Gates-head Gas Bill (by Order), Plymouth and Stonehouse Gas Bill (by Order), Portsea Island Gas Light Bill (by Order), Richmond Gas Bill (by Order), South ampton Gas Bill (by Order), South Metropolitan Gas Bill (by Order), South Shields Gas Bill (by Order), South Sub urban Gas Bill (by Order), Swansea Gas Bill (by Order), York Gas Bill (by Order).
I beg to move, "That these Bills be put off till Monday next at the same time as to-day."
Will the South Suburban Gas Bill be debated according to the right hon. Gentleman's arrangement?
There will be no debate arising, because they will be moved at the same time next Monday as to-day.
Second Reading deferred till Monday next. Land Drainage (Lotting Fen) Provisional Order Bill, "To confirm a Provisional Order under the Land Drainage Act, 1914, relating to Lotting Fen, in the county of Hunting don," presented by Sir RICHARD WINFREY; read the first time; and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 4.]Ministry Of Pensions (Appropriation Account)
Copy presented of Appropriation Account of the Ministry of Pensions for 1916– 17, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 22.]
Oral Answers To Questions
War
Royal Navy
Shipwrights (Promotion)
1.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty how many warrant shipwrights have been recommended for promotion on the ground of special services in the War and how many of these have in fact received promotion?
Four commissioned shipwrights and four teen warrant shipwrights have been specially recommended for promotion on the ground of special services in the War. Of these, one commissioned shipwright and six warrant shipwrights have been promoted. In addition, the names of two other commissioned shipwrights and six warrant shipwrights have been noted for early promotion. I might also add that seven officers of the shipwright branch have received the Distinguished Service Cross.
Naval Ratings And Marines Interned (Holland)
2.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the Admiralty ruling which defers the consideration of the advancement of naval ratings and Marines interned in Holland till after the close of the present War operates hardly on the men who would otherwise have received advancement; and will he consider whether he can modify this ruling and advance the men so interned, unless in any particular case good reason for refusing advancement is shown?
I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Devonport yesterday, in which I stated that the question of the advancement of naval ratings and Marines who are prisoners of war was considered by the Admiralty early in the War, and it was decided that advancement must stand over until the end of the War. I think my hon. and learned Friend will agree that the principle governing the cases of interned men must reasonably be the same.
What is the reason for this ruling?
I do not know that I can give it. It is the War Office practice. I think the War Office is reviewing the matter. Whether any change of policy will be adopted I cannot say, but I will let the hon. and learned Gentleman know.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the hardship inflicted on long service men in the Navy by this ruling They will lose all the chance of preferment.
That is the ground on which the hon. and learned Gentleman calls my attention to the matter.
Convoyed Ships (Loss)
3.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether precautions have been taken to, as far as possible prevent a recurrence of the events that led to the sinking of two ships in the convoy that left Falmouth on 26th December last?
Full inquiry has been made into this case. Whilst, of course, I cannot promise immunity from attack, I can assure my right hon. Friend that steps have been taken, arising out of certain incidents in this case, which, it is hoped, will prevent their recurrence.
Royal Fleet Reserve (Bonus)
4.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to the fact that there are a number of B Class men of the Royal Fleet Reserve who have qualified by age and service for the £50 bonus, and have not been paid; and will he forthwith issue instructions for the payment of the bonus, or state his reasons for refusing to do so?
Payment of the £50 gratuity is being made to men who are qualified by age and service for the award in all cases in which applications have been received. Instructions to for ward applications were issued in December last. If my hon. and learned Friend knows of any case in which there has been undue delay after application has been made, I shall be glad to have the facts from him and have inquiry made.
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve
6.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that if a man becomes an officer in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve or obtains a temporary commission in the Royal Marines and meets his death on the battlefield, his relatives receive no gratuity as in the case of the relatives of officers who enter the Army from the Territorials or after a course of cadet training; and whether he will consider the advisability of placing the two forces on the same footing in this respect?
I explained to my hon. Friend in the course of the Debate last night how this matter stood. The question is at present under discussion between the Admiralty and the Treasury.
Mercantile And Naval Ratings
8.
asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he can now make any statement with regard to the disabilities under which the dependants of mercantile ratings serving under naval discipline suffer as compared with those of naval ratings
It has now been decided that every man is to be allowed to allot, as in the case of the Navy, from the Thursday following the date of his entry if he joins on Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, and otherwise from the Thursday week. The interval between the date of the man's entry into the Service and the date upon which his dependant receives any money will thus be appreciably cur tailed, provided the man authorises an allotment as soon as he joins.
It has also been decided to grant a gratuity of three weeks' pay on discharge to all men discharged medically unfit. This will not prejudice the men's claim to further compensation if, upon investigation, they are found to be entitled, but will serve to bridge over the period of investigation. The possibility of arranging for advances to be made to the dependants of such men by local, committees, where the men's allotments are for some reason delayed or in suspense, is under consideration, and I am not at present in a position to make a definite statement upon this subject. But if my hon. and gallant Friend will put a question this day week—this is the only outstanding point—I may be able to give an answer.Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that the gratuity he mentioned in the second part of the answer will be paid on the discharge of the man and that he will get it before he goes home?
:That is the purpose of it, and certainly it will be distributed in that way.
Lower-Deck Promotion
asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he will consider such pay of the junior commissioned ranks as will enable any suitable man from the lower deck to accept a commission and fittingly support his position from his own resources?
I may recall my hon. Friend's attention to the statement upon this point made yesterday by the First Lord, as follows:
I can assure my hon. Friend that the question of promotion to commissioned rank from the lower deck continues to receive our closest attention, and that we fully appreciate the aspirations of the men and desire, as far as practicable, to meet them."In order to meet to some extent the increased cost of living, increases of pay have been granted to the junior ranks of officers supplemented by allowances in respect of children. This has enabled us to consider still further the question of promotion from the lower deck, because it is hoped that in many cases it will remove the objection on financial grounds which might prevent men from the lower deck taking commissioned rank."
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at the age at which a lower-deck man receives his promotion he is usually married, and that the pay of the junior officer in the Service is not enough to keep a man with a wife and children?
That is true with regard to those of long service, but since July, 1912, we have introduced the Mate Scheme. This gives much younger men a chance of promotion, and I should be very glad to tell the House what has been done in this direction.
Is it right that there should be such a rate of pay for these officers that they are unable to marry, sup posing they are not married when they receive their promotion?
Rosyth Naval Base (Rents)
11.
asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether a communication has been received from the Rosyth Ratepayers' Association complaining of the high rents charged for the new houses erected in the district; whether he is aware that these houses compare unfavourably, both with regard to rent and accommodation, with the houses of Government employ és in the Crombie district close by; and what action the Admiralty intend to take to meet the complaint of their workmen at the naval base?
The communication referred to in the first part of my hon. Friend's question has been received, and is now under consideration by the Admiralty. A communication has been sent to the Local Government Board, Scotland, and also a report is being obtained from the local Admiralty officers at ROSYTH.
Naval Prisoners In Germany (Allowance)
9.
asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether, in connection with naval prisoners in Germany, the Admiralty will undertake that the allowance for food and lodging shall not be less than 5s. a day, so that Royal Marine Light Infantry officers may be placed on the same footing as officers of equal rank paid by the War Office?
Under Treasury authority the allowance is granted to meet expenses actually incurred in respect of food and lodging within a limit of 5s. a day. Should the expenses fall below that figure, only the amount expended will be repaid.
Asiatic Russia
12.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any diplomatic request has been addressed by the Japanese Government to the People's Commissioners of Russia to return the arms which are said to be lying at Vladivostock; whether this request has been refused; and whether any united diplomatic representations will be made by the Allied Governments before the use of force is sanctioned?
I am not aware of any such request having been made.
Trade Commissioners
14.
asked the Under secretary of State for the Colonies if he will give the names of the three countries to which appointments of Trade Commissioners are under consideration; and whether the delay in making the announcement is due to questions of finance?
As regards the posts to which the hon. Member refers, the question is under consideration of creating a fourth Trade Commissionership in Canada, in addition to the three Com missioners already appointed in the Dominion, and of establishing a post in East Africa and in one of the other Crown Colonies or Protectorates. It has not, however, been possible as yet to arrive at a definite decision. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative.
Gibraltar (Food Control)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that application has been made to the Acting Colonial Secretary at Gibraltar on behalf of the Gibraltar Dock-yard Workmen's Association and other working-class bodies for labour representation on the Food Control and Markets Control Committee, and that the Acting Colonial Secretary has refused to admit such representation on the ground that, the question of food supply and the regulation of prices being one in which the interest of every individual consumer in the community is the same, there would not appear to be any necessity for the separate representation of any particular class; if he is aware that the committee in question is com posed of the command paymaster, an officer of the Army Service Corps, a naval store officer, the president of the Chamber of Commerce, and the chairman of the Exchange Committee: and whether, in view of the fact that only the naval and military interests and the trade interests are represented on this committee, he will instruct the Acting Colonial Secretary to give adequate working-class representation on this committee, he will instruct the Acting Colonial Secretary to give adequate working-class representation?
The conditions of Gibraltar in time of war are practically those of an army in the field, every person in it being subject to military law; and I do not think it desirable to interfere with the arrangements which the Governor and Commander-in-Chief may see fit to make in regard to such an essentially military question as the safeguarding of the food supply of the fortress.
Royal Army Medical Corps
16.
asked the Under secretary of State for War the number of temporary medical officers holding administrative medical appointments in the Army; what percentage of administrative medical appointments in the Royal Army Medical Corps are held by the Regular officers; and whether any steps are going to be taken to provide tuition in Staff duties to temporary medical officers of proved capacity and experience with a view to them holding such posts?
I am not clear as to what my hon. and gallant Friend means by administrative medical appointments. There are large numbers of medical officers holding posts of an administrative nature in the United Kingdom and the various theatres of war, such as heads of hospitals, registrars, sanitarians, deputy-directors of medical services, inspectors, controllers of expenditure, etc. To ascertain the particulars for which my hon. and gallant Friend asks would require prolonged inquiry, and I regret it cannot be undertaken. There is no occasion for taking the steps suggested in the last part of the question.
18.
asked the Under secretary of State for War whether, in view of the fact that the Report on the Royal Army Medical services has been conveyed to the Ministry of National Service, he can state the reasons for withholding this Report from Members of the House of Commons; and whether he will reconsider the decision arrived at by the Secretary of State for War with regard to this matter?
The Council have not yet considered the Report, and I can not undertake to publish it until this stage has been reached. The recommendations of the Report are now being investigated by the British Military Authorities in France.
23.
asked the Under secretary of State for War whether he can state if Royal Army Medical Corps officers previously attached to the Royal Flying Corps have now been transferred to the Air Forces in this country; and, if not, whether he can state the reasons why this has not been done?
I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the answer which was given him last Thursday on this subject by the representative of the Air Ministry.
Salvage (Army Stores)
17.
asked the Under secretary of State for War the salary to be paid to the Director of Salvage, the Deputy-Controller of Salvage, and the Assistant Controller of Salvage; what duties each of them were performing immediately before their present appointments, and the salaries they were then receiving; will he particularly specify what are their branches of duty other than in connection with the salvage of old boots and old clothing and the salvage of fats and waste products; will he state fully what justifies the expense of these new appointments; and whether the salvage of boots, old clothing, and waste products are now efficiently and economic ally performed?
I will circulate with the OFFICIAL REPORT the information asked for in the first part of my hon. and learned Friend's question. As regards the remainder, I am afraid it is impracticable to give the full particulars and justification asked for within the compass of a reply to a question, but the answer to the last portion is in the affirmative.
The following is the information mentioned: —
The salaries to be paid to the salvage branch are as follows:
Director | … | £l,200 p.a. |
Deputy directors | … | £900 p. a. |
Assistant directors | … | £800 p.a. |
The director was employed as chief constable at £ 1,200 per annum immediately before his present appointment.
The deputy directors were employed — one as senior supply officer of a division, with pay at £520 per annum; one in an unpaid capacity, assisting the Surveyor-General of Supply, and now unpaid as deputy director.
The assistant directors were employed — one as deputy assistant quartermaster-general of a division, at £550 per annum, plus allowances;
One as staff captain at £500 per annum (consolidated);
One as assistant inspector at £520 per annum ;
One as deputy assistant director at £650 per annum (consolidated);
One previously unemployed in military capacity, and now unpaid as assistant director.
Salonika (Soldiers' Leave)
19.
asked the Under-secretary of State for War if he will endeavour to obtain leave for Private Shorrock, No. 9933, 2nd Battalion, D Company, King's Own Royal Lancaster, who is in Salonika, where he has been two years and nine months without leave, having been in France for nine months before that, and especially in view of the fact that his father is in hospital and his mother is old and frail?
I have explained on more than one occasion recently the improvements which are being made in the leave arrangements at Salonika. I have great sympathy with a case like this, but I regret I am not in a position to intervene in individual cases.
Death Sentence (Army Officer)
20.
asked the Under secretary of State for War if he has made inquiries into the case which was recently brought to his notice of a young officer who was condemned to death and shot on or about 27th December, although recommended to mercy by the Court; and if he has any further statement to make upon this case?
I have made inquiries into the case mentioned, and I find that the recommendation to mercy was duly considered by the various and many authorities through whom the court-martial proceedings passed before sub mission to the Field-Marshal Commanding - in - Chief for confirmation. I am advised that the proceedings are entirely in order. I have, therefore, no further statement to make upon the case.
Do I understand the facts as published are substantially correct
No; my hon. Friend must not understand that.
With whom does the final decision rest on the question of the recommendation to mercy
The Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief.
Courts-Martial (Procedure)
21.
asked the Under secretary of State for War if the Government will consider the advisability of so altering the Regulations affecting trial by court-martial as to provide for a right of appeal in special cases?
The proposal contained in the question could not be effected by Regulation, but only by legislation. It is not proposed to introduce legislation for this purpose.
asked the Under secretary of State for War if the Government will consider the desirability of so altering the Regulations affecting courts- martial as to provide that no soldier shall be tried before a general court-martial on a capital charge without the assistance of a prisoner's friend?
A soldier tried by general or district courts-martial on any charge has already, under Rules of Procedure 87–94, the right to be assisted by a friend or to be represented by counsel. At field general courts-martial an accused is always, in practice, allowed to be so assisted or represented whenever possible, though this is not expressly provided by the Rules in the case of such Courts. If an accused, charged on a capital charge before any court-martial, desires to be represented, and finds a difficulty in securing a friend or counsel, a suitable officer would be found for the purpose whenever possible. The Army Council have recently issued a reaffirming Order on this subject, of which I shall be happy to send the hon. Member a copy. I would remind the House that this practice has been in vogue throughout the War.
Is it not possible to arrange that a man shall have a friend with him before the court-martial?
In practice that has been done during the War; the man has always had a friend.
Could not my hon. Friend get the Regulation so altered as to make what is the usual practice the invariable rule?
As a matter of fact, in this War it has been the invariable rule. Members must realise that the Army at present is administered under the law enacted by this House.
Have not the men a much better chance of acquittal before a court-martial than before any Civil Court?
I believe that is so.
What happens when a suitable officer, engaged by the parents of the man, can be present, and what happens if it is not possible to find a suitable officer?
In all the cases that I have investigated and I have investigated a great many a suitable officer has been found in every case. In the Navy and Army there are numbers of young barristers and solicitors who would be only too willing to come forward.
Is there any reason why these officers cannot be appointed, in order to see that this work is carried out by the responsible officers who are doing it?
I cannot accept that statement. My belief is that this work is carried out thoroughly and conscientiously.
Army Officers Temporarily Unfit
24.
asked the Under-secretary of State for War whether he is prepared to abolish the distinctions between Regular and New Army officers now engaged by the Ministry of Pensions as regards their promotion and pay, or, if this course is impracticable, whether he will take steps to discharge all temporary officers, in order that they may have the same opportunity of promotion and increased pay as Civil servants?
Temporarily unfit officers attached to a Government Department normally draw Army pay and allowances, but if they fill special posts they may be given the civil pay of the post instead. This applies equally to all officers. Permanently unfit officers relinquish their commissions, whatever branch of the Service they belong to, and are dealt with as civilians. I understand that New Army officers permanently employed under the Ministry of Pensions relinquish their commissions.
Does this also apply to officers supplied to the Ministry of Munitions?
I imagine so.
Staff Officers (Headquarters)
25.
asked the Under secretary of State for War whether he is now in a position to state the number of Staff officers at General Headquarters Army Corps and Divisional Headquarters who have not had any experience of regimental service during the last two years?
I regret that the information asked for is not available at the War Office, and I hesitate to ask the authorities in France to procure it for me at present, when they are overburdened with difficult work.
Are we to understand that the list is such a heavy one that it is almost impossible to give it?
You are to under stand no such thing. The reason for refusing given in the answer is the true one.
Military Service
Non-Combatant Corps
26, 27, 28, 29, and 30.
asked the Under-secretary of State for War (1) whether, on 17th January, 1918, seven men of the 1st Western Non-Combatant Corps refused at Inceville, near Dieppe, to handle shells, were court-martialled on the 31st January, and sentenced to six months' hard labour; whether these men are now serving their sentences in France; (2) whether eight men of the 1st Northern Non-Combatant Corps at Rouen were court-martialled on 4th December, 1917, sentenced to field punishment No. 1, and, after serving part of their sentences, released with a clean crime sheet; whether these men are now doing their usual work; (3) whether seven men of the 1st Northern Non-Combatant Corps were at Rouen on 1st February, 1918, sentenced by court-martial for refusing to handle rifles; whether they are serving the sentence of fifty-six days' field punishment No. 1; whether it is in accordance with Regulations that they are tied up three nights out of four; (4) whether seventeen men in the 2nd Northern Non-Combatant Corps were, on 10th December, 1917, sentenced at Abancourt for refusing to handle military supplies; whether their sentences of two years' hard labour has been com muted to eighty days' field punishment No. 1; whether, while undergoing punishment, they were, contrary to Regulations, dragged round the square and thrown on the ground, picked up, and again thrown down and kicked; whether soldiers who watched these, proceedings made their disgust apparent; where these men now are; (5) whether in December, 1917, four teen men, being Seventh Day Adventists, were court-martialled at Abancourt for refusing to do military work on the Sabbath; whether they received sentences of nine months' hard labour; and whether any of these men are now in Wormwood Scrubs Prison or at Knutsford Work Centre?
If my hon. Friend wishes me to inquire into these cases, I should be glad if he would furnish me with the names and regimental numbers of the individuals concerned, but I would remind him that men of the Non-Combatant Corps can be called upon to carry out any duties other than those of a combatant nature—i.e., other than the bearing of arms or instruction in their use.
37.
asked the Under secretary of State for War if a medical student attached to the Non-Combatant Corps is entitled under the new Army Council Instruction relegating medical students to the Reserves with a view to resuming their medical studies would be required to conform to the condition imposed, namely, joining an Officers' Training Corps, or whether, seeing that such a person has received a certificate of exemption from combatant duties on conscientious grounds, he will be permitted to substitute some other voluntary work of national importance instead of joining the Officers' Training Corps?
This is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of National Service.
Russians
32.
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War what is the position of Russians under the Military Service (Conventions with Allied States) Act who do not wish to remain in the Army or who wish to return to Russia; and whether Russians in this country are still being regarded as subject to the above-named Act?
I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given yesterday by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to a similar question by the hon. Member for North Somerset.
Men Of Military Age (Ireland)
73.
asked the Minister of National Service whether his attention has been called to the number of men of military age and fitness who have been for some time and are now crossing regularly between the West of Scotland and Ireland, living there some time, and recrossing to Scotland and England to conduct their business there for a limited time, thus having the advantage of being resident in Ireland while actually conducting a business in Scotland or England; and, if so, what steps does he propose to take to deal with this matter?
The position of men of military age who have proceeded to Ireland with the object of evading their obligations under the Military Service Acts is receiving urgent consideration of the Government Departments concerned, and in certain cases arrests have been made and proceedings are at present pending before the Irish Courts.
Are we to understand that the practice has been stopped by the hon. Member's Department
The whole question is being considered. It is not only one Department that is concerned; there are several Departments?
Can the hon. Gentleman give any indication of the numbers of those men who have gone over
I must have notice of that question.
Discharged Men
75.
asked the Minister of National Service what steps he is taking to acquaint the discharged men concerned with the information contained in No. 29, of 1918, of 25th February; and whether any popularly-expressed leaflet is to be issued for distribution?
The Ministry of Labour have circulated the National Service Instruction dealing with this matter to societies, associations, and trade unions specially concerned, together with an explanatory letter stating that further copies may be obtained by branch secretaries from the Ministry of National Service. In addition to this, a communiqué is being circulated to the Press indicating what classes, of men are entitled to the concession, and how they can obtain its benefits by applications through Employment Exchanges or other wise. The Exchanges have received copies of the National Service Instruction, and special directions to ensure that inquiries are properly dealt with. The subject is also dealt with in a leaflet entitled "Points for Discharged Men," which can be obtained from the Government information kiosks. Following the provisions of the National Service Instruction, the men affected will receive individual notifications, which will, as far as possible, be sent to them before the commencement of the month allowed to them for finding work of national importance.
Shipworkers (Transfer From Army)
33.
asked the Under-secretary of State for War whether a new Army Council Order or Instruction has been issued the effect of which is to prevent commanding officers from forwarding applications from men who are ship-workers and desire transfer from the Army to the shipyards?
No, Sir; so far as I can ascertain no such Instructions have been issued by the War Office.
Home Service Men
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the new Instructions in regard to transfer to Home Service of men who have served abroad and have been wounded have yet been issued; if so, will he state the terms of the Instructions in question; and, if not, will he state when the Instructions will be issued
No, Sir; the Instructions have not yet been issued, but I hope they will be shortly.
Mesopotamian Forces (Leave)
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether any arrangement is being made to enable officers and men in Mesopotamia, who have managed to withstand the hot weather in two successive years, and other evils of the climate, to proceed on leave to India; and whether such arrangement can include the recall of regiments to India on being relieved by regiments now in India?
In reply to the first part of my hon. Friend's question, I would refer him to the answer which I gave yesterday to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for South Somerset. As regards the second part, the relief of regiments in Mesopotamia by units in India depends on the military situation, and transport being available. A high proportion of the regiments now in Mesopotamia have not been in that country for two hot weathers.
Volunteer Force
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he is aware that among a number of Volunteers the idea is that the military authorities intend, when the officers and men have signed either one or other of the Sections A or B, to mobilise them and send them down to the coast or places away from their homes and businesses for an indefinite period simply to guard the coast and some line of communication; and if he can assure the House that the officers and men of the Volunteers will only be called away from their homes and businesses in the case of imminent invasion or some equally critical condition or situation?
I am pleased to be able to give the assurance asked for in the last part of my hon. Friend's question. The Volunteer Force will be called out for actual military service, under Section 17 of the Act of 1863, only if, and when, it becomes necessary for the purpose of repelling an enemy in the event of an invasion being imminent. This liability is shared equally by Volunteers in Sections A. B. C. or D. The fact that a Volunteer signs Army Form V. 4010 and joins Section A. B. or C. in no way varies or increases this liability, and there is no intention to employ them as indicated in the question.
Royal Welsh Fusiliers
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he will have an inquiry made into the case of Private C. Pepper, No. 10289, 3rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers, stationed at Limerick, but now in hospital; whether Pepper went out to the front in December, 1914, and has been wounded four times; whether he has been in hospital for several months, was passed by a medical board and marked C 3, and was when sent to the hospital on draft leave; and whether, in view of the man's record and condition, he will be allowed to remain in this country?
Inquiries are being made into this case, and I will communicate the result to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.
Artillery Brigades
asked the Under secretary of State for War whether experience has shown that the organisation of Army Artillery brigades, Royal Field Artillery, has given the advantages expected; and if he will say, since these brigades are employed under many different corps and divisional commanders within a comparatively short period of time, who is responsible for seeing that the same opportunities for promotion are available for their personnel as for the personnel of Divisional Artillery Brigades?
I regret I cannot answer completely the first part of my hon. Friend's question without reference to the Military Authorities in France. I under stand, however, that these brigades have to a certain extent fulfilled their object, but that owing to tactical reasons or ex tension of front it has not been found possible to utilise them to enable Divisional Artillery to accompany their Infantry when withdrawn from the line in every case.
With regard to the second part of the question, the Major-General Royal Artillery of each Army and the Brigadier-General Royal Artillery of each Army Corps are responsible for the promotion of the personnel, and the opportunities for both officers and men are the same in these brigades as in the Divisional Artillery. I may add, as regards officers, that substantive promotion is on one general list for each corps of the Royal Artillery, but that in the case of acting promotion, which is normally carried out within the formation, there may be more chance in the Divisional Artillery, owing to the greater probability of casualties being more evenly distributed than in a brigade.Army Orderlies (Civil Employment)
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether it is proposed to sanction the continued employment of seventy-five Army orderlies on civil duty in lunatic asylums in Scotland, the men to be transferred to Class W Reserve; whether he is aware that when attention was drawn in the first instance to the transfer of soldiers who had formerly been asylum attendants to certain asylums in Scotland a promise was given that the men would be withdrawn; whether he is also aware that the Board of Control for Scotland have issued a circular pointing out that these seventy-five orderlies are to be transferred to Class W Reserve, but that they will be subject to military discipline, inasmuch as in the event of their proving unsatisfactory in any way they will at once be replaced in the Army and substitutes provided in their stead; and whether, as a method of punishment, these men may be so treated?
:Yes, Sir; it has been decided, with the concurrence of the Ministry of National Service, to have these men placed in Class W of the Reserve, with a view to their continued employment The names of those willing to transfer have been called for and action is being taken The delay in the transfer is due to the difficulty which the General Board of Control for Scotland have found in obtaining suitable men to replace those not willing to transfer. Every effort is being made to expedite the transfers, but should any of them prove unsuitable they may be retransferred to the Army. I have not seen the circular to which my hon. Friend refers, but I am afraid I cannot accept his interpretation, as these men are in the same position as regards their liability to be retransferred or called up, as munition workers or any other men eligible for military service.
Wheelwrights, Gun Wharf, Devonport
42.
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he is aware that the wheelwrights employed at His Majesty's Gun Wharf, Devonport, have not yet been paid the 12 ½ per cent. award made by the Ministry of Munitions nor the full total of the 5s. awarded by the Committee on Production as from December, 1917, to the engineering and foundry trades: and whether he will now take steps to remove the cause of the consequent dissatisfaction?
The 5s. advance was authorised in December last, as from the first full pay week in that month, in accordance with the award of the Committee of Production. The payment of 12 ½ per cent. was authorised on the 1st instant.
Food Supplies
Poultry
43.
asked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware that the present policy of the Board of Agriculture towards poultry keeping in Great Britain is detrimental not only to the industry as a whole but to egg pro- duction, which is essential for the feeding both of invalids and children; whether, under these circumstances, he is prepared to reconsider the Department's attitude; and, if so, whether he is prepared to receive a deputation of poultry-keepers?
I think that the hon. Member is under a misapprehension as to the present policy of the Board in this matter, and for a statement of what has been and is being done, I would refer him to the reply given on the 18th of last month to a question by the hon. Member for the Montrose Burghs. In addition to a small allowance of food for the rearers of chickens of utility strains, the Ministry of Food are now, I understand, prepared to allow to poultry a share of the limited amount of concentrated feeding stuffs available. The President will be happy to consider any representations, whether through a deputation or otherwise, which poultry-keepers may wish to make to him on the subject.
Will the hon. Gentleman arrange for the issue of a very clear statement to the Press, or generally, showing the keeper of fowls exactly how he stands in regard to poultry keeping?
Instead of issuing a general warning will the hon. Gentleman state definitely what can be recognised as rations?
I think it would be wise to issue such a statement.
Fish
44.
asked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he has given consideration to the desirability of using the powers under the Defence of the Realm Act to take possession of inland waters and rivers and so make the fish therein available for food?
The Board have very carefully considered, with the assistance of the Freshwater Fish Committee, what are the available resources of fish in inland waters, and to what extent these resources can be used to relieve the present shortage of food supplies. I shall have pleasure in sending the hon. Member copies of the two Reports hitherto issued by the Committee. I do not think that the occasion has arisen for the Board to take over the inland waters of England and Wales, though they will consider sympathetically any schemes for their exploitation on rational lines, with due regard to the maintenance of the stock of fish, and especially of the stock of salmon.
Arable Cultivation, 1919
62.
asked the President of the Board of Agriculture if, in the event of it becoming necessary to ask for an increased area of arable cultivation for the 1919 crop, he will formulate his proposals and place them before the Federation of County War Agricultural Committees for their opinion as soon as possible so that he may be in a position to announce them to the farmers before July, 1918?
The President will gladly bear in mind the hon. Member's suggestion for an early announcement of the Government's plans for the 1919 harvest, though he cannot undertake to submit them first for the approval of the Federation of County War Agricultural Committees.
Does the hon. Gentleman realise that there is a distinction between approval and opinion, and that the suggestion in the question is that the proposals should be put before the county war agricultural committees who have to carry them out locally an opportunity of talking over the matter Will such an opportunity be afforded?
I will draw the attention of my right hon. Friend to the distinction.
Angling Association, Scotland
had the following question on the Order Paper:
79. To ask the Secretary for Scot land whether he has received proposals from a group of angling associations in the South of Scotland aimed at an increase in the supply of fish; whether he has also considered proposals for more extensive netting, under public or official control, having the same object in view; and what action he has taken and is taking in both these matters?Before the right hon. Gentleman answers, may I ask if he will include in his reply any statement as to the very widely signed petition from Forfarshire?
I think my answer will cover that as well as the question on the Paper. I am in consultation with the Fishery Board for Scotland and the Scottish Freshwater Fisheries Committee on the subject of the proposals referred to, which will receive my careful consideration.
War Cabinet
asked the Prime Minister whether the time has now arrived that the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs should also be a member of the War Cabinet, in order that he may keep himself informed of the progress of events and of the speeches which are made by statesmen in enemy countries?
I do not think that the proposed change is desirable, as my right hon. Friend is always present when such subjects as are suggested in the question are considered and the duties of his office would not leave him time to do more.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Foreign Secretary usually replies to questions by saying that he has no information beyond what appears in the Press, and does that mean that foreign affairs are not discussed in the Cabinet?
I am not at all aware of that, and my recollection does not agree with that of the hon. Member.
Alcoholic Beverages
47.
asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been directed to the conclusions arrived at by the expert Committee appointed by the Central Control Board (Liquor Traffic) to report as to the physiological effect of alcohol on industrial and other workers, namely, that the taking of alcoholic beverages to promote working efficiency is not only useless or even detrimental in immediate effect, but is also likely to be in its ultimate results seriously injurious to health, and that, in the light of their knowledge of how alcohol acts in the body, there can be no question that its habitual use by the worker as a substitute for food or in the belief that it gives a fillip to energy is physiologically un sound; and whether, having regard to this authoritative expression of opinion, he will suspend the further manufacture and sale of intoxicants?
As regards the first part of the question, it does not appear proper to judge the conclusions of the Committee on isolated passages divorced from their context, and on this view the second part of the question does not arise.
48.
asked the Prime Minister whether the attention of the War Cabinet has been directed to the fact that the suspension of the manufacture and sale of beer would release some 575,000 tons of shipping, equal to the employment of twenty-nine ships, each of 5,000 tons capacity, doing four voyages in the year; and whether, having regard to the shortage of tonnage and of foodstuffs, the Government propose to restrict further the present output of beer or to suspend the manufacture of beer during the War?
The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Food Ministry dealt with the subject, fully in Debate on the 14th February, and I can add nothing to what he said.
Whitley Committee (Report)
49.
asked the Prime Minister if he will say when the second and third parts of the Report of the Whitley Committee will be published?
The second and third parts of the Report of the Whitley Committee were laid on the Table last night, and will be in the hands of hon. Members as soon as they can be printed.
Government Offices (Press Members)
50.
asked the Prime Minister if he can state the names of news paper proprietors, editors, and members of the Press who are either directly or indirectly holding office, paid or otherwise, under the Government at the present time, and the nature of such office?
I am not prepared to take the course suggested in the question.
Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House why he is not prepared to take such a course, and what reasons there are against it?
I think the reasons are quite obvious. There is a very large number of gentlemen connected with the Press who are helping the Government in all sorts of capacities, and to make any distinction of the kind would be invidious in the highest degree.
Is the right hon. Gentle man not aware that there is an increasing impression that our present Government is Press-ridden, and will he give an opportunity to make a clear statement?
Is it not the fact that after the very frank, courteous, and comprehensive speech which the Prime Minister delivered to the Unionist War Committee yesterday — [Hon. MEMBERS: "Order, order!"]
May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will give the facts to the House which were given by the Prime Minister yesterday to the Unionist War Committee?
I do not know what facts were given, but I am quite prepared to say that if the House at any time desires a discussion on any question we will be quite ready to give the opportunity.
Would my right hon. Friend say whether, on some convenient occasion, such as the Report of the Vote of Credit, the Prime Minister would make a statement in reference to this matter?
Obviously, I can not myself reply to that question, but I should think, and, at all events, if I were in his place it would be the course I should adopt — I should be prepared to discuss it after I knew what was the point with which I had to deal.
Does the right hon. Gentleman not consider it a most invidious distinction for the Prime Minister to make to explain this Press matter to the Unionist War Committee and not to the House generally?
That really seems to me very ridiculous. Surely the Prime Minister, like any other member of the Government, is entitled to meet any body he wishes which makes representations to him?
If the Independent Members of the House make representations, will he meet them?
Notice should be given of any further questions.
Sir Lionel Phillips
asked the Prime Minister whether Sir Lionel Phillips, Baronet, holds any office under the Government; if so, whether he receives any remuneration for this office and what are the duties and powers conferred on him by virtue of such office?
Sir Lionel Phillips holds the position of Controller of the Mineral Resources Development Branch in the Ministry of Munitions, which position he has held since March, 1917, and for which he receives no remuneration. The duties of his office, under the Minister, are the investigation of mineral resources (other than coal or iron-ore) in the United Kingdom, and where so decided to develop for war purposes such resources either by advice and assistance to the owners or by working them under direct control. The Controller is assisted by an Advisory Committee, upon which are representatives of the Board of Trade, the Geological Survey, and the Institute of Mining and Metallurgy.
Are we to understand that anyone who discovers any such property has to report full particulars to Sir Lionel Phillips?
There is no obligation of the kind.
Is the question of investigation as to petroleum supplies under his control
On the information I have, I think not, but I should like to have notice of the question.
Brewers' Profits
53.
asked the Prime Minister if he is aware that the profits of the firm of Messrs. Allsopps have riser from £ 68,100 in 1914 to £ 236,700 in 1917, the profits of Messrs. Ind, Coope, and Company from £ 94,100 to £ 204,700, the profits of Messrs. Watney, Coombe, Reid and Company from £ 904,200 to £ 1,112,900; and whether, having regard to the possibility of the Government acquiring the interests of the brewers in this country, he will state whether valuation will be based on their 1914 or their 1917 profits?
I think the hon. Member must have looked only at the credit and not on the debit side of the profit and loss accounts, so that his figures do not agree with those shown in the companies' certified accounts. The second part of the question is hypothetical, and I cannot, therefore, answer it.
Are we to understand that the Government consider it hypothetical as to whether they will take over the brewers at the pre-war valuation or the present valuation?
The whole question as to what course will be taken is in the meantime hypothetical. I have stated over and over again that no steps will be taken until the House has been fully consulted.
Excess Profits Duty
54.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the great increase in rents of houses in Glasgow, in some cases amounting to an increase of 100 per cent. over pre-war rents, is subject to Excess Profits Tax; and, if not, will he consider the national advantage of making them so?
House rents fall within the scope of the Excess Profits Duty only when they constitute receipts of a business. It will, however, be. remembered that the power to increase the rents of small houses has been curtailed for the period of the War by the Increase of Rent and Mortgage Interest (War Restrictions) Act, 1915.
Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been called to the fact that the Act is being evaded by colourable sales of houses?
That was mentioned to me by an hon. Member yesterday for the first time, and I promised myself to look into it.
Can the right hon. Gentleman not take some steps by which the Treasury will secure some of the excess profits now beings made by land lords in Glasgow, where rents have been put up so high?
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall be very glad to get any additional source of revenue of that kind, but it is very difficult to deal with questions of this nature.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that colourable sales of houses are taking place, not only in Scot land, but in England, especially in munitions areas?
56.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his attention has been called to the announcement that the proprietor of the "Sunday Herald" newspaper is prepared to distribute the sum of £ 50,000 among readers of this journal who are injured during air raids; whether he is aware that many thousands of pounds have been spent in giving publicity to this announcement in the columns of other newspapers; and whether the propitiator of this journal will be permitted to deduct either the £ 50,000 or any part thereof, and the cost in connection with giving publicity to this offer, from moneys which would in the ordinary course be due from him to the Treasury under the Excess Profits Tax?
I cannot discuss details of the liability of an individual taxpayer. The case will be dealt with in the ordinary course by the Commissioners of Inland Revenue in conformity with law.
Will the right hon Gentleman state definitely whether or not the proprietor of a business is at liberty to distribute £ 50,000 among readers or clients, and take that sum out of excess profits and rob the country of that amount in the process?
The right hon. Gentle man has answered the same question.
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that in advertising to increase circulation these newspaper proprietors are simply attempting to do what is impossible in view of the shortage of paper, and can he not take action both in regard to this paper and the "Sunday Pictorial," of which a member of the Government is the proprietor?
That is an entirely different question, and deals with the restriction of the issue of paper. As regards the other question, it is obvious that one of the difficulties of the Excess Profits Duty is that a firm only loses one-fifth of any extra expenditure which it incurs. I can assure my hon. Friend that the Inland Revenue Commissioners have a pretty close regard to these matters.
Will the right hon. Gentleman answer that part of the question which definitely asks whether this sum of £ 50,000 is regarded as excess profits or not?
I really think my answer made it plain that that is a question of law to which it would be impossible for me to give any reply.
57.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware of the ever-increasing number of public companies who are falsifying their profits by writing down their stock to a purely fictional figure, by effecting unnecessary alterations and elaborate additions to their premises, by replacing machinery in lieu of writing off the usual depreciation, and generally taking all steps within their power to prevent the country from benefiting from the income which should be derived under the Excess Profits Tax; whether he proposes to take any steps to prevent this recurring; and whether the Government are taking any steps to punish any parties found to be guilty of evading the spirit of the Act?
The liability to Excess Profits Duty is computed according to fixed statutory rules, and is not affected by variations in the accountancy practice of different businesses. Proper provisions have been made for dealing with questions arising through alterations, additions, and replacements.
60.
asked the amounts of excess profits received from the ships of the fishing industry for the last three years, respectively
No information is available as to the incidence of this tax in the case of the various classes of tax payers, and, in view of the labour involved in the preparation of detailed statistics of this character, I cannot in existing conditions undertake a classification of the various groups of trades and businesses from which payments of Excess Profits Duty have been received.
Advertisements (Taxation)
55.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, having regard to the desirability of husbanding the paper resources of the country and at the same time raising an increase of revenue, he will consider the advisability of introducing in his new Budget a form of direct taxation on all commercial advertisements either appearing in the columns of the Press or on hoardings?
I am unable to anticipate my Budget statement.
Income Tax (War Securities)
58.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, with the view to increasing the investment in war securities, he will consider the advisability of freeing investments therein up to £ 1,000 from liability to Income Tax, as is done in the United States of America?
I am not prepared to adopt the hon. Member's suggestion.
Paper Shortage (Government Publications)
59.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the recently issued pamphlet containing the report of a speech by the President of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries contains at the end two pages of complimentary matter; and whether, in view of the necessity of saving paper and the charges now made for printing, he will consider the advisability of omitting these complimentary additions in future publications issued by Government Departments?
I am obliged to the hon. Member for drawing attention to this matter. I have given instructions that irrelevant matter of the nature complained of is to be excluded in future.
Will the hon. Gentleman take care that the question and answer is circulated amongst the Government Departments generally?
Aerodrome Construction
61.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is the practice of His Majesty's Government to pay contractors for the construction of aerodromes and other military works on the principle of a percentage of their expenditure; whether he has received a resolution from the Farmers' Federation protesting that such a system is conducive to extravagance and enables the contractors to offer inducements to agricultural labourers and others to leave their proper employment to the detriment of industries of urgent national importance; and whether a system of payment more consistent with national economy will be devised and adopted?
I have received the resolution from the Farmers' Federation, and am in communication with the Air Ministry on the subject.
Reconstruction
Ministry Committees
63.
asked the Minister of Reconstruction if any members of the eighty-seven Committees set up by the Ministry of Reconstruction receive salaries or pay; if so, how many; will he state what is the amount of such salary or pay; if any members of these Committees receive fees and allowances; if so, how many; and will he state what is the aggregate amount so paid
None of the members receive salaries or pay other than the usual allowances for travelling and subsistence. If the hon. and gallant Member would kindly refer to the White Paper he will find that of the eighty-seven Committees, sixty-seven were set up by Departments other than the Ministry of Reconstruction.
Employer And Employed (Relations)
asked if the Re-construction Committee on the Relations between Employer and Employed has issued more than one Report since that already published, dated 8th March, 1917; and, if so, why neither of these Reports has been published?
I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the answer given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the hon. Member for Rotherhithe.
Officers (Return To Civil Life)
asked the Minister of National Service whether he is aware that many Army officers are now returning to civil life owing to being over the age for active military duty, some of whom will be in financial need; and whether he is prepared to assist such officers to obtain other employment?
As my hon. and gallant Friend will appreciate, the function of the Ministry of National Service is to provide the necessary men in response to bulk demands for labour by the Government Departments responsible for vital national work. It is not, the function of the Ministry to provide work for persons who are in need of employment and assistance. The Officers' Resettlement Committee of the Ministry of Reconstruction, in conjunction with the Professional and Business Registry of the Ministry of Labour, is considering the best method of assisting in the cases referred to by my hon. and gallant Friend.
Air Service
Medical Department
65.
asked the Under secretary of State to the Air Ministry whether an Advisory Committee was created to determine the constitution and powers of a separate medical service in connection with the Air Force; and whether he is prepared to lay this Report upon the Table of the House?
As I have already stated in the House, it has not been found practicable to adopt in their entirety, at any rate for the present, the proposals of the Committee. I do not think it is desirable to publish the Report, which consists largely of administrative recommendations contingent on the adoption of the main proposals.
Naval And Military War Pensions And Grants
asked the Pensions Minister whether he has consulted with the North and South Wales joint statutory committees as to the advisability of forming a national committee to deal with the treatment and training in the case of discharged soldiers residing in Wales and Monmouthshire?
The Joint (Disablement) Committees for North and South Wales have been consulted, and as a result a joint consultative committee for Wales has been formed of representatives of both joint committees. The first meeting of the new joint committee was held on the 23rd ultimo and reviewed the whole subject of treatment and training in Wales. I am hopeful that the combined action thus initiated will have useful results.
67.
asked whether the scale of allowances for the dependants and orphans of sailors and soldiers, as well as the allowances for men discharged from service as permanently disabled, are sufficient to enable them to procure, at present prices, an amount of food equivalent to that recognised by the rationing scale as the minimum on which health and efficiency can be maintained?
The hon. Member knows the scale of pensions and allowances under the Royal Warrants, and I venture to say that he is as competent as I am to judge as to the quantity of food which these pensions and allowances will provide. The adequacy of the present scale as applied to widows and children is now under consideration, as the hon. Member is aware, and in that consideration the high cost of living is, of course, a most material factor.
Will the right hon. Gentleman consider whether it is not more the function of the Ministry of Pensions to deal with the points raised in the question than to throw the responsibility upon the individual members; and if the Ministry of Pensions do not feel competent for the task will they consider the setting up of a Committee, or body, to make a special study of the subject, and give an authoritative reply?
As already indicated, the question of increased allowances is a subject of consideration.
68.
asked how many inspectors have been appointed for the work of the Pensions Ministry in England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, and also how many of these inspectors are men who have been discharged from naval or military service on account of wounds or disability?
Only two appointments to the new staff of inspectors have yet been made and both of these have been given to men who have served in the War. Of these two men one has been discharged for wounds or disability. Preference is being given to the claims of disabled men in the selection of candidates for the remaining posts which it is hoped will now shortly be filled.
69.
asked the Pensions Minister if he is aware that the Liverpool Dental Hospital have established a technical school for the training of disabled soldiers and sailors in dental mechanics; and, if so, will he take steps to encourage the establishment of similar technical schools for the same purposes in other towns?
A scheme for the training of discharged sailors and soldiers in dental mechanics at Liverpool Technical Institute is now under consideration. Courses of instruction have been approved, and are being carried on at London, Manchester, Swansea and New-castle-on-Tyne, and every encouragement is being given to the establishment of courses in other towns.
70.
asked the Pensions Minister whether, in view of the recent conference with regard to pre-war pensions of non-commissioned officers and men, he will now consider the case of widows of officers whose pensions at pre-war rates are equally out of all proportion to the present high rate of living?
The rates of the pensions of widows of officers who lost their lives in previous wars were on a much more liberal scale proportionately than those of the widows of non-commissioned officers and men, and in most cases it has not been nor is it now considered necessary to increase them for the present War.
Is the House to understand that by saying "in most cases" he has considered special cases of this kind Is he aware that there are a large number of widows of officers who were not killed on service, but who still draw a small pension?
At the moment the question raised is not under consideration.
Representation Of The People Act (Voters' Lists)
71.
asked the President of the Local Government Board whether, now that he has fixed 15th April as the first qualifying period for voters under the Representation of the People Act, he can now state what date he has fixed for the publication of the lists of pro posed voters, the last date for objecting to entry on the list of voters, the last date for making claims to be registered as a voter, the date for the publication of objections to names on the list of voters, the date for the publication of claims to be on the list of voters, the last day for objecting to claims to be registered, and what is the date for the publication and issue of the first registers?
Perhaps I may refer the hon. Member to the Order in Council which has now been laid upon the Table of the House, and which fixes the dates of the various stages in the preparation of the new register.
Death Certificates (Sugar Cards)
72.
asked the President of the Local Government Hoard whether it is now a practice in Kensington and else where to refuse death certificates until the sugar card of the deceased has been surrendered; whether instructions have been issued to officials to this effect; and, if so, for what reason?
No instructions have been issued to registrars of births and deaths to refuse death certificates until the sugar card of the deceased person has been surrendered. I am assured by the Registrar-General that there is no foundation for the suggestion in the hon. Member's question.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this has actually happened, and that demands have been made for the surrender of the sugar cards before the death certificate is granted?
My information was obtained from the Registrar-General; but if the hon. Member will supply me with particulars of cases I will have inquiries made, because there is no intention that that rule should be adopted.
It is being adopted. I will send particulars to the right hon. Gentleman.
National Service
Local Tribunals (Constitution)
74.
asked the Minister of National Service how many tribunals there are in the whole country; and whether the members of each of these are allowed among them twenty private servants of military age and of military fitness as gardeners and other domestic servants in the same way as with one tribunal in Scotland?
Questions regarding the number and constitution of tribunal should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the President of the Local Government Board, and to the Secretary of State for Scotland. As the hon. Member has addressed this question to the Minister of National Service, I may add that I am not aware that he has produced any facts in support of the allegations that he makes, and I would refer him to the answers which were given to him on the 21st of November and the 5th of December last.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is no such Minister as the Secretary of State for Scotland
I apologised
Officers' Pay (Allowances)
76 and 77.
asked the Minister of National Service (1) whether he is aware that the pledge given by the Ministry of National Service in October last that the salaries of officers taken over from the War Office by the Ministry should take into consideration loss of further Army gratuities, increased Income Tax, and loss of travelling facilities, has not, in a large number of cases, yet been carried into operation; whether he has taken action in the manner; (2) whether any steps have yet been Liken with regard to granting personal allowances to officers on such a scale as adequately to correspond with the increased rate of pay recently announced to Army officers?
The pledge to which he refers has been met, and steps have been taken to grant personal allowances in proper cases which are commensurate with the recently increased rates of pay. Claims from officers concerned are being promptly dealt with by the Ministry of National Service as and when received.
Housing (Scotland)
80.
asked the Secretary for Scotland whether he has received a memorial, signed by Scottish Members of Parliament representing all parties in the House, and also a resolution passed by the Town Planning Conference held recently in Edinburgh, at which over 350 delegates were present, requesting that a Reconstruction Committee should be appointed to deal with the question of housing in Scotland, with a view to arrangements being completed as soon as possible to provide additional housing accommodation immediately after the War; and whether he proposes to appoint such a Committee for Scotland?
I have received the memorial, and I am aware of the resolution referred to. If it should at any stage appear that a Committee of the nature suggested is required, I shall not hesitate to communicate with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Reconstruction in the matter. As I have already, however, stated in the House, and as I must remind my hon. and learned Friend, Scotland has had this advantage over England and Wales in the matter of housing, that a Royal Commission has recently reported, with full knowledge of the present situation, and after long and patient inquiry, on the subject of housing in Scotland. Communications have been passing between the Departments interested in this all-important question, and I trust that action may be shortly announced which will satisfy my Scottish colleagues that no delay such as further Inquiry would involve is necessary.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he hopes to be able to announce the action that has been, or will be, taken?
My hon. Friend may be aware that a Committee is sitting at the present time. I have been in communication both with the Board and the Committee, and directly I receive a reply I will let my hon. Friend know.
Will the action to which the right hon. Gentleman refers be by means of legislation or by administrative action?
I think legislation, obviously, will be necessary.
Seamen's Pay (Admiralty Committee)
7.
asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will consider setting up at the Admiralty a special department, comprised in the main of men from the lower deck, whose duty would be to advise on all questions of pay, pensions, victualling, clothing, and promotion affecting the men in the Navy, and to get rid of grievances and to initiate proposals for the betterment of conditions generally?
It is not considered desirable to set up a special department such as my hon. Friend suggests. But the Board of Admiralty attach great importance to keeping in close touch with the needs of both officers and men of the Royal Navy. As regards the lower deck, it is the duty of officers in command to take care to make them selves fully acquainted with the just and legitimate aspirations of the men, and, through their flag officers, to keep the Board closely informed upon the same. And I can assure my hon. Friend that, as a body, the captains of His Majesty's ships do enter into that part of their responsibility with great sympathy. I ought also to say that it is part of our policy to send small Committees to the Home ports and Fleet bases for purposes of inquiry and consultation, and thus keep in close touch. Such a Visiting Committee is, as a matter of fact, now at work, and is dealing with questions concerning warrant officers and artisans. This Visiting Committee is presided over by Rear-Admiral E. Hyde Parker, C.B., and consists of Captain L. F. Maitland-Kowan, R.N., and Staff Paymaster A. B. S. Townend (secretary), with three warrant officers as advisory members. On its return it will report to a Board Committee consisting of the Second Sea Lord (president), Rear-Admiral Sir W. Reginald Hall, K.C.M.G., C.B., and myself.
Did not the right hon. Gentleman say yesterday that some of these questions were to be referred to a special Committee at the Admiralty, which has already been sitting, and can he say what method have the men of the lower deck of getting directly into touch with such a Committee and putting their point of view before it?
In regard to the first part of the question, the reference of the First Lord yesterday was, I apprehend, to this very Committee as to which I will show him the terms of reference and the ground they are called on to explore. As regards the second part, under the long standing Service rules, every man has a right of access to the commanding officer. Hence, if he desires, to the flag officer, and ultimately to the Board of Admiralty. As I say in the main answer, it is the duty of the officer commanding to take care to make himself fully acquainted with the just and legitimate aspirations of the men, and through their flag officers to keep the Board closely informed upon the same. And I can assure the hon. Member that the captains of His Majesty's ships enter into that part of their responsibility with great sympathy.
May I ask whether similar cases in the Royal Naval Air Service will come under this Committee, or is it no longer under the Admiralty?
It is not in. the reference to the Committee. There is nothing except that any decisions affecting warrant officers will affect R.N.A. S. warrant officers.
Wall the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration, pending the transfer, that the men will be substantially represented?
I shall be very glad to hear anything my hon. Friend has to say.
I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Navy Estimates.
Bill Presented
MARRIAGE HOURS (IRELAND) BILL, —" to extend the Hours within which Marriages may be lawfully solemnised in Ireland," presented by Mr. Arthur Samuels; supported by Mr. Duke; to be read a second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 5.]
M Litvinoff
Personal Statement
I have to make a short personal statement arising out of questions yesterday. I trust the House will give me its indulgence, and I will make as short as I can what I do say. On Thursday last the Home Secretary, speaking in the Debate, used the following words:
Yesterday a question was put to the right hon. Gentleman as to who was the Member who was reported to have urged the workers of this country to adopt Bolshevik methods, and start a revolution in this country After being pressed upon the point, the Home Secretary said:"At the meeting which Mr. Litvinoff addressed it was not he who recommended the people of this country to follow the example of Russia, but a British Member of Parliament.. I wish he were in the House now that he might justify that advice." —[Official Report. 28th February, 1918, col. 1627.]
The House will see that that is a very grave and a very serious accusation to make of any Member of this House — probably the most serious charge that can be brought against a Member of Parliament. It imputes to him, not merely conduct for which he might be prosecuted in a Criminal Court, but it imputes con duct which, in my judgment, is certainly unworthy of a Member of this House, because it suggests that I used my position and such influence as I have as a Member of this House to advocate a course of con duct which would tend to subvert the Constitution upon which this House depends. I think the right hon. Gentle man, before making so serious a charge against one of his colleagues, would have treated him more fairly if he had given some notice of what he was going to say, or, at any rate, have waited until I was present, so that I might at once have replied to that charge. As it is, as the right hon. Gentleman will see, he has got at least if I may put it so — twenty-four hours' start. I see my self branded to-day in every newspaper as the man who openly advocated revolution by physical force. The denial I am about to make — and I am sure the House will agree — cannot possibly be published until to-morrow. morning. That alone puts me at a great disadvantage. Let me at once say that the charge is false — wholly and absolutely! I do not think any man who knows me would for an instant believe it. Never in my life, in public or in private, have I ever desired to see, or advocated revolution by physical force in this country. Never! And that is the charge against me! By temperament, by training, by conviction, I am utterly opposed to any such method. On the occasion in question I was invited by a personal friend to attend a lecture which was to be given by M. Litvinoff on the Russian situation. Being desirous of hearing as far as possible authoritatively about the Russian situation, I accepted the invitation and received two cards of admission. Later I was asked if I would consent to propose a vote of thanks to M. Litvinoff at the conclusion of the lecture. With some reluctance I consented to do so. I proposed the vote of thanks, as I most expressly stated, to M. Litvinoff, not as a representative of any special faction or any special party, but as the only accredited envoy of the Russian people in this country. I made my speech on that occasion, as is my general practice, without notes, and therefore it is impossible for me at this distance of time — although my memory is quite clear — to state, with precision the language I used. But before I went to the meeting I happened to jot down a few notes, which I did not use. of what I intended to say. [A laugh.] That is really unworthy of the House. I am going to deal with what I actually said, and I will not pursue the other point, even although the only evidence I have is in the notes I put down beforehand which are open to any hon. Member. Still it is quite indifferent to me what view the House chooses to take of my word on that point. I will now deal with what I actually said, and as to that I depend not only on my own recollection, but on the memory of at least eight or ten Members of this House who were present either on the platform or in the body of the hall. I think I am right in saying that every one of them will bear me out in my assertion that, at that meeting I said nothing that could be construed as in any way justifying the charge which has been made against me. I will read to the House what I believe are the words of the sentence upon which this charge is based. I said I was extremely anxious to show that my attendance at this meeting did not imply any sympathy with revolutionary propaganda in this country. What I said was:"It was the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Morrell) who made the statement that it was desirable that the people of this country should follow the example of Russia. I did not think it worth while to take any action." —[Official Report, 5th March, 1918, col. 1825.]
I then went on to say:''There are I believe those who desire to see this country follow the example of Russia."
Further, I said, in the most emphatic way, as my hon. Friends will bear me out:"I cannot, agree with any such view.''
I further went on to say that by our constitutional means a revolution of opinion would be sufficient to effect a change of Government, all that I desired to see, and I say frankly that I do desire it. That is the beginning and end of what I said on that occasion. Immediately after the meeting it happened there was an air raid. A lot of the people waited for shelter, and some of my friends came up and remonstrated with me on the way I had, as they expressed it, let the meeting down, because I did not give the sort of incitement which apparently some of the meeting required One of my hon. Friends said:"The only revolution that I desire to see in this country is a revolution of opinion."
I am confident that my recollection of this matter is perfectly correct, and that from beginning to end of that speech, although I admit I said some strong things about the Government, and about the administration of the Defence of the Realm Act, and about prosecutions for opinions, as I consider them, which have been going on under that Act — although I admit I said some strong things, I ask the House to believe that I never, on that occasion, and never have in my life, said anything that would justify such a charge as has been made against me, on the evidence of his own agents, and not on any impartial evidence, by the right hon. Gentleman. I have nothing more to add, except this: I have endeavoured to give the House a perfectly plain statement of what occurred; I do not think I have anything to withdraw; I do not think I have anything to apologise for. For twelve years now I have been a Member of this House. During that time I have taken part in a good deal of controversy, and I have endeavoured to live on terms of personal good will and of respect with Members, even those who differ from me. Never before have I had any occasion to make any complaint of misrepresentation; certainly not of misrepresentation so grave as has been made here. Never before have I been able to say, as I do to-night, not only that the right hon. Gentleman has misrepresented me, but that he has attributed to me precisely the reverse of what I said on the occasion in question. I hope that the right hon Gentleman, now that he has heard what I have to say, will accept my statement, and will withdraw the charge which he has made against me."I admire your courage; you had the courage to let your audience down."
4.0 P.M.
I hope the House will allow me to say a few words, not from any desire to controvert what the hon. Member has said, but in order to explain precisely the facts as they were reported to me. I was informed that M. Litvinoff, who I knew to be engaged in revolutionary propaganda, was to address a meeting in Lon don. I did not feel justified in prohibiting the meeting, because I had no reason to believe that there would be any breach of the peace, but I directed that a short hand writer should attend with a written authority which he could produce if challenged, and take a careful note of the proceedings. From his report it appears that after M. Litvinoff had given his address in praise of the Bolsheviks, the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Morrell) made a speech, expressing strong sympathy with the Russian revolution, and, after attacking, by name, members of the War Cabinet, and the Prime Minister, whom he described as knowing nothing of freedom, he made use of this import ant sentence:
That statement was received with great applause, and the hon. Member added:'' There are people who feel so strongly the shame of this business in this country that they are already beginning to see that it is time that we followed the example of the Russian workmen."
I confess I attached small importance to the sentence last quoted, as I cannot see how it is possible, without violence and bloodshed, to follow the example of the Bolsheviks, to take forcible possession of the churches, the banks, the factories, and the land, to destroy a throne, a navy and an army, and to ruin a great Empire. I admit that I was indignant — first, that when we are fighting this peril Members of Parlia- ment should listen to and applaud this man who is its instrument; and, secondly, that a Member in the position of the hon. Member for Burnley should use words such as I have quoted —"I wish to say that I am only here, and I am only in favour of the sentiments so far as it means we should have a revolution of opinion only."
Do not read your speech.
— and should have no word of serious condemnation for the brutal murders of gallant men by which the second revolution in Russia was disgraced. While I was considering what action I ought to take it happened that I was challenged in this House about Litvinoff, and having just read the account of the meeting to which I have referred, I said on the spur of the moment that it had been left to a British Member of Parliament to say that we should follow the example of Russia. I was asked then and there for the name. I said I would rather not give it in the absence of the Member concerned, but yesterday I was pressed by many Members, and in the end rather reluctantly I gave the name of the hon. Member to whom I had referred. Having now heard the hon. Gentleman's statement, I am glad he repudiates the meaning which I gave to his words. I, of course, accept what he says as to his opinions and as to the intention with which he made the speech. If any statement of mine has given him pain I very much regret it, but I think he will admit that the statement as reported to me was of a very grave nature, and that having regard to the information which I had I did not go beyond my duty in calling public attention to the matter.