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Peace Treaties

Volume 149: debated on Monday 19 December 1921

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German Reparation

27.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can make any further statement regarding the request of the German Government for a delay in the payments of the indemnity instalments; and whether His Majesty's Government will consult Parliament before consenting to the military occupation of further German territory or the imposition of other sanctions?

30.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can give a pledge that the Government will not commit this country to a further occupation of German territory, or the imposition of new sanctions for the Treaty, without first consulting Parliament in the matter?

Conversations were begun this morning between representatives of the French and British Governments and will probably continue for the greater part of this week. I hope that, whilst my colleagues and I are taking part in these discussions, I shall not be pressed to make a statement on the subject.

May I, in spite of the request of the right hon. Gentleman, respectfully ask if he can give us some assurance with regard to the second part of my question, as to whether any further military occupation will be undertaken before this House is consulted in accordance with what I believe to be the constitutional practice?

I hope that hon. Members will respond to the appeal I have made. There is great difficulty in answering questions with regard to matters which are at this moment the subject of conversations between foreign Ministers who are in this country and ourselves, but the attitude of His Majesty's Government in this matter is fairly well known to the House.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am only trying to strengthen his hands?

I am grateful to the hon. and gallant Member for his intentions, but if he would occasionally take my hints as to the way in which he can best carry them out, I should be even more grateful.

German War Criminals (Trial)

28.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government are now in a position to announce the steps they intend to take for the trial of German war criminals in accordance with the Treaty of Versailles?

I have been asked to reply. There is nothing to add to the answer given on the 10th November last to question put by my hon. and learned Friend.

Are any steps being taken by the Government in this matter, or is the matter being allowed to lie fallow?

Is the House to understand that the steps referred to in that, answer are at present being taken?

Yes, Sir; I think the House may understand that they are in course of being taken.

House Of Lords (Reform)

29.

asked the Prime Minister whether a restoration in any form of the veto of the House of Lords has been considered by the Cabinet?

The proposals of the Government will be submitted to Parliament in due course. I must decline to make any statement as to proceedings in the Cabinet.

Has it been suggested to the Cabinet, or are they considering, the restoration of the veto of the House of Lords?

I must decline to make any statement as to the proceedings of the Cabinet.

Then the right hon. Gentleman is not in a position to pledge the Government not to restore the veto of the House of Lords?

I decline to answer any questions as to proceedings in the Cabinet, and I am astonished that the hon. and gallant Gentleman, with his experience, should think it useful to put such questions.

Georgia

31.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in any negotiations with Russia as to trade or recognition, he will press that Government to allow free self-government to the Republic of Georgia, which has been already recognised by ourselves and other Powers as a self-governing independent State, but is at present occupied by Russian troops against the wishes of the inhabitants?

His Majesty's Government have no definite information to the effect that Georgia is in occupation of Russian troops. The rest of the question, therefore, does not arise.

Is it impossible for the Government to get any definite information from Georgia as to whether or not it is occupied by Russian troops?

Is the hon. Gentleman in a position to accept the assurances of any individual Member as to the wishes of the inhabitants of Georgia?

As a question of which I have given Private Notice is relevant to that which has just been asked by my hon. Friend, might I supplement his question? Does the Under-Secretary seriously say that he has no information that Russian troops are in occupation of Georgia and are carrying out very drastic acts of repression there, having sent innumerable people to gaol and having deported many others? If the hon. Gentleman has any doubt upon these facts, let me assure him that I was told no later than the day before yesterday by the President of the Constituent Assembly—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order, order!"]—I am giving my hon. Friend some useful information.

I understood that the hon. Member was going to ask me a Private Notice question on this subject.

Will the hon. Gentleman really consider getting more prompt information on these matters, and does he not recognise that it is some- thing of a scandal that the Foreign Office never has any information on these matters?

Has not the hon. Gentleman just said that he has no information that Russian troops are in occupation of Georgia?

(by Private Notice) asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the independence of the Georgian Republic was recognised in 1919 and 1920 by nearly all the Powers of the world; whether this independence was further confirmed by the Treaty of 7th May, 1920, between Russia and the Georgian Republic; whether after an invasion by Russian and Kemalist forces in combination there has been substituted for the independence of Georgia government by Russia and a régime of the most drastic repression, including wholesale imprisonments and deportations, and the destruction of the liberty of the person, of the Press, and of public meetings; whether in every form of protest left to them the Georgian people have re-asserted their claim for their separate and independent existence; and what steps the Government are prepared to take to bring to an end this gross violation of all the principles for which the armies of the Entente fought and won the late War; and whether the hon. Member is aware that the President of the Georgian Constituent Assembly and other representatives of Georgia are in London at this moment to establish the facts which I have just set forth?

His Majesty's Government accorded de facto recognition to the Republic of Georgia in January, 1920, and de jure recognition in January, 1921. During the same period similar recognition was granted by the Governments of the Allied and other Powers. The existence of the Treaty of Peace between Soviet Russia and Georgia would appear to confirm similar recognition on the part of the Soviet Government. In March, 1921, Bolshevik Armenian and Russian troops invaded Georgia, which accepted the Soviet form of government. His Majesty's representatives were withdrawn, and the members of the former Georgian Government fled the country. His Majesty's Government have no later authoritative information as to ensuing events in Georgia. The only protests received by His Majesty's Government have been protests signed by private individuals abroad and members of the former Government. The information available from all sources indicates that all the Members of the present Soviet Government of Georgia are men of Georgian nationality. As regards the last part of the question, it would not appear that His Majesty's Government have any locus standi for interference in the matter.

National Expenditure (Business Committee)

26.

asked the Prime Minister when the Report of the Geddes Committee will be presented?

42.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he proposes to issue in full the Report of the Departmental Committee on Expenditure presided over by the late Minister of Transport?

(by Private Notice) asked the Leader of the House whether it is proposed to publish at an early date the findings of the Geddes Committee?

I have been asked to reply. The question of the publication of the Committee's Report will be a matter for the consideration and decision of the Cabinet.

May I ask why the Cabinet cannot consider this matter at once? Why must it be delayed?

It is impossible to give any further answer. The Report has not even been received by the Members of the Cabinet.

May I ask for an answer to my question as to when the Cabinet will consider this matter?

Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will allow me to point out the simple fact that the Cabinet cannot consider the Report until it reaches them.

May I ask the Leader of the House if he can say when he, as Leader of the House, expects the Report to be considered?

On that point of Order. Is it not the case that the Geddes Committee was set up during the last Session of Parliament, that we have been called together for a special Session of Parliament, and that, as financial business is the first business of a new Session, the House is entitled to know whether the Cabinet expect the Report shortly, and, if so, what steps will be taken?

It is one of our Rules at Question Time that we do not admit hypothetical questions. This is one of that nature.

On that point of Order. I understand from your ruling that it is left to the Leader of the House to expect or not to expect a Report from a Financial Committee presided over by a Member of his Cabinet.

The question on the Paper asks if he will state when the Report of the Geddes Committee will be presented? We have not had an answer to that. We want to know when it will be presented.

Can the Leader of the House inform us how it comes about that such voluminous reports as to the contents of this Report have appeared in the Press, and whether those reports are accurate?

As I have not seen the Report, which, as I have said, has not yet been presented to the Cabinet, I am unable to say how far any reports in the Press, which I have also not seen, are accurate.

Can the right hon. Gentleman inform the House as to the means by which these voluminous reports have appeared in the public Press, even before the Report itself has been presented to the Cabinet?

Economic Situation

32.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the desirability of setting up a Select Committee to consider the relative advantages or disadvantages of being a creditor or a debtor nation, and of inflating or deflating the currency, so that the minds of politicians and bankers may be rendered more clear as to the objects of financial legislation and administration?

I do not think a Committee of the kind suggested would be a suitable body for such an economic investigation as the hon. and gallant Member desires.

Is the right hon. Gentleman himself in favour of being a creditor nation with other people working for you and your own people unemployed, or a debtor nation with your people working for someone else?

Asiatic Turkey

35.

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government will instruct its representative at the forthcoming meeting of the Council of the League of Nations to support the Belgian proposal for the protection of the non-Turkish elements in Asiatic Turkey?

No details of the Belgian proposal referred to by the hon. Member have been received from the League of Nations. I am not, therefore, in a position to indicate the Government's attitude regarding it.

Parliamentary Secretary To The Treasury

37.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in the interests of economy, it has been decided that, as was the case before the War, the salary of only one Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury shall be borne upon the Votes?

Does the right hon. Gentleman remember that on 23rd June he promised that the situation should be reviewed, and said that was an agreement which should not be perpetuated, and if that is so, could there be a more fitting opportunity, in the interest of economy, to take some action in this matter?

If the hon. Member will send it to me, I will refresh my memory. What I think I said was that this was a matter which would come under discussion between the rising of the House and its meeting next year.

Is it not a fact that the principal work of one of these gentlemen is in the country and not in this House, and should he be paid his £2,000 a year for that?

The work of both these gentlemen is both in the country and in this House, and is similar to that which has always been executed by their predecessors.

Motor-Car Accident, Ashby-De- La-Zouch

19.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to a case last month at Ashby-de-la-Zouch county court where a motorist had caused serious injury to one of the public through negligent driving; and, if the local police did not institute proceedings in the matter, what action does he propose to take?

I learn on inquiry that the evidence in this case was not such as to justify criminal proceedings against the driver of the motor-car. There is no action I could take in the matter.

Inland Revenue Stamping, Middlesbrough

41.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the large amount of Inland Revenue stamping done in Middlesbrough, he can arrange for this work to be undertaken by a subordinate official at the Middlesbrough post office if the present stamp office should be closed at the end of the year, and in this way effect a considerable economy in present expenditure without seriously inconveniencing the general public?

The Board of Inland Revenue have recently explored, in consultation with the Post Office, the possibility of making an arrangement such as that suggested by the hon. Member. They have been unable so far to discover any practicable solution of the difficulties involved, but the matter will be further investigated.

Hull Floods (Distress)

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Health whether he can render any immediate assistance to the Lord Mayor and Corporation of Kingston-upon-Hull in their efforts to deal with the distress caused by the flooding of the City on the evening of 17th December?

I should like to express the sympathy of the Government with the City in its misfortune. I have already sent officials of the Ministry to confer with the Lord Mayor and the Corporation, and every measure which is possible will be taken to render assistance in dealing with the situation.

Royal Navy (Construction)

(by Private Notice) asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what decision has been arrived at in the matter of new capital ships; and what sums it is proposed to expend?

No decision has yet been reached pending the final conclusion of the Washington Conference, and I am not at present in a position to answer the second part of the question.

(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether it is his intention to wait for the reply of France in the matter of possible naval reductions before definite orders are given to our shipyards to suspend or alter work which is in hand?

I have been asked to reply to this question. The capital ship contracts have been suspended. No further action is being taken pending the result of the Washington Conference.

Have the Government considered the possibility of buying the "Mutso" from Japan and proposing to pay them at some subsequent time big interest on the sum involved?

(by Private Notice) asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to the report that two new battleships are to be proceeded with as a result of the Washington Conference and that these ships are to be of considerably less tonnage than those for which contracts were recently entered into by the Admiralty; and will he further say assuming that it is, or may be, the intention of the Admiralty to construct two new battleships on the reduced basis of tonnage, whether in the altered circumstances it will now be possible to utilise for this purpose the slip at Devonport where the discharges from the dockyard are causing great local distress and unemployment?

Is the hon. Gentlemen aware that the same claim can be put forward very much more strongly for the Port of Barrow-in-Furness?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, I am afraid it would not be practicable to construct one of the suggested new ships at Devon-port.

May I ask whether the ships were not originally sent to the Clyde because of the industrial and political unrest in Glasgow, which it was hoped to allay by building them there, and does not that still apply?

Were they not sent to the Clyde because of the splendid work which is done there in building ships better and cheaper?

Is it proposed to compensate the shipbuilders for the two ships which have been abandoned, and then to enter into two new contracts because two new ships are required?

Greater London Government

asked the Minister of Health whether he can make any statement which will reassure the minds of ratepayers in the Home Counties that undue encouragement is not being given to the London County Council to annex a large area of the surrounding districts for the purpose of forming a still Greater London?

The local government of Greater London is at present the subject of an Inquiry by a Royal Commission, and I cannot make any statement in anticipation of their recommendations. The Outer London authorities will have ample opportunity of presenting their case to the Commission, which I have no doubt they will do with their usual energy and ability.