Section twenty of the Finance Act, 1920, which provides for a deduction from assessable income in respect of a widowed mother, etc., shall have effect as if for the words "forty-five pounds" there were substituted the words "seventy-five pounds."—[ Mr. Myers.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
If all the powerful arguments which were advanced on the last Clause failed to move the heart of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, there is very little hope for this new Clause. I am not, however, without some measure of optimism that the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Committee may make a concession of some importance on this Clause. We believe that this Clause demands the very earnest attention and the most serious consideration of the right hon. Gentleman. If it receives that consideration, we believe that it will have behind it a substantial concession. Section 20 of the Finance Act, 1920, sets forth a number of individuals who come under the exemption of the £45, and these individuals are all put on a level. We suggest that in the case of a widowed mother there is no comparison with the other people referred to in the Section. The support of a widowed mother involves special responsibility. Some of us know of that responsibility from practical experience. It is one which we readily undertake, and if we relieve the community, as we do relieve the community, when we provide a home and shelter for a widowed mother, we are entitled to some special consideration. We suggest that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer will give this matter the consideration which it deserves some concession may result. If he will yield to our claim, as he yielded to other demands earlier in the Debate, there is no fear of what can be done in this matter. I have heard it freely commented upon that in connection with the first Division which was taken this afternoon, Income Tax and Super-tax payers have received a concession amounting to £500,000, I do not know whether that is true or not, but I am satisfied that a substantial concession was given when that Division took place. If that can be done with the alacrity with which it was done by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the insignificant sum that will be needed to give the concession provided for in this Clause ought to be readily conceded.This Clause was considered on the Finance Bill last year and did not then find acceptance. The considerations which prevailed last year are equally relevant now. In fact, the financial circumstances now are more embarrassing than they were when we were dealing with the matter a year ago. Accordingly I see no reason why the Committee should come to a different opinion now from what it did then. The hon. Member used a phrase which indicated that the concessions would not cease with the case of the widowed mother. He referred to the man who provided for a widowed mother or somebody else to take her place, and said that this extra amount should be granted in such cases. That means that while the Amendment refers merely to the case of the widowed mother, there would be various ramifications by which other people would be brought in. I cannot profess to know where it would stop, but the particular proposal contained in this Amendment would cost the revenue of the present year a sum of £120,000. In these circumstances I need not elaborate any arguments to convince the Committee that the recommendations which the Royal Commission on Income Tax made which are now embodied in our financial system should be departed from so soon unless for very good reasons, which have not been advanced in this case.
Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
Division No. 181.]
| AYES.
| [11.40 p.m.
|
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William | Guest, J. (York, W.R., Hemsworth) | Randall, Athelstan |
Banton, George | Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
Barker, G. (Monmoutn, Abortillery) | Hartshorn, Vernon | Rose, Frank H. |
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) | Hayday, Arthur | Royce, William Stapleton |
Barton, Sir William (Oldham) | Hayward, Evan | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Hirst, G. H. | Sitch, Charles H. |
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hogge, James Myles | Swan, J. E. |
Bramsdon, Sir Thomas | Holmes, J. Stanley | Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey) |
Briant, Frank | Irving, Dan | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
Bromfield, William | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince) |
Cairns, John | Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. | Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. D. |
Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) | Lawson, John James | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Lunn, William | Wignall, James |
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Ciltheroe) | Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) | Williams, Col. P. (Middlesbrough, E.) |
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Mosley, Oswald | Wintringham, Margaret |
Foot, Isaac | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) | |
Gillis, William | Naylor, Thomas Ellis | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
|
Gretton, Colonel John | O'Grady, Captain James | Mr. Morgan Jones and Mr. |
Grundy, T. W. | Raffan, Peter Wilson | Myers. |
NOES.
| ||
Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Hohier, Gerald Fitzroy |
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Davidson, J. C. C. (Hemel Hempstead) | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard |
Ainsworth, Captain Charles | Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. | Hood, Sir Joseph |
Allen, Lieut.-Col. Sir William James | Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) | Hope, Sir H. (Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, W.) |
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Davies, David (Montgomery) | Hope, Lt.-Col. Sir J. A. (Midlothian) |
Armstrong, Henry Bruce | Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) | Hope, J. D. (Berwick & Haddington) |
Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Hopkins, John W. W. |
Astor, Viscountess | Dawson, Sir Philip | Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) |
Atkey, A. R. | Dewhurst, Lieut.-Commander Harry | Horne, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) |
Baird, Sir John Lawrence | Doyle, N. Grattan | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) |
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | Howard, Major S. G. |
Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Edgar, Clifford B. | Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) |
Barker, Major Robert H. | Ednam, Viscount | Hurd, Percy A. |
Barlow, Sir Montague | Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Inskip, Thomas Walker H. |
Barnett, Major Richard W. | Evans, Ernest | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. |
Barnston, Major Harry | Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. | Jameson, John Gordon |
Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Falcon, Captain Michael | Jephcott, A. R. |
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Johnstone, Joseph |
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Fildes, Henry | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) |
Bennett, Sir Thomas Jewell | Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. | Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) |
Betterton, Henry B. | Ford, Patrick Johnston | Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George |
Birchall, J. Dearman | Foreman, Sir Henry | Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) |
Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Forestier-Walker, L. | Kidd, James |
Blake, Sir Francis Douglas | Forrest, Walter | King, Captain Henry Douglas |
Blane, T. A. | Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement |
Borwick, Major G. O. | Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Larmor, Sir Joseph |
Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. | Ganzoni, Sir John | Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) |
Brassey H. L. C. | Gee, Captain Robert | Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) |
Breese, Major Charles E. | George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd) |
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham | Lindsay, William Arthur |
Briggs, Harold | Gilbert, James Daniel | Lloyd, George Butler |
Broad, Thomas Tucker | Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) |
Brotherton, Colonel Sir Edward A. | Goff, Sir R. Park | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) |
Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) | Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. | Lorden, John William |
Bruton, Sir James | Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) | Lort-Williams, J. |
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) | Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.) |
Burdon, Colonel Rowland | Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hackn'y, N.) | Lyle, C. E. Leonard |
Burgoyne, Lt.-Col. Sir Alan Hughes | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Sir Hamar | McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) |
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) | Grenfell, Edward Charles | McLaren, Robert (Lanark, Northern) |
Butcher, Sir John George | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. | M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. |
Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Guthrie, Thomas Maule | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) |
Carr, W. Theodore | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. |
Casey, T. W. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Mallalieu, Frederick William |
Cautley, Henry Strother | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) |
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l,W.D'by) | Manville, Edward |
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) | Hamilton, Sir George C. | Marriott, John Arthur Ransoms |
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Martin, A. E. |
Churchman, Sir Arthur | Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) | Matthews, David |
Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz |
Clough, Sir Robert | Haslam, Lewis | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. |
Coats, Sir Stuart | Henderson, Lt.-Col. V. L. (Tradeston) | Morden, Col. W. Grant |
Cockerill, Brigadler-General G. K. | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. |
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Morrison, Hugh |
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale | Hills, Major John Waller | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. |
Cope, Major William | Hinds, John | Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert |
Cory, Sir C. J. (Cornwall, St. Ives) | Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. | Murchison, C. K. |
The Committee divided: Ayes, 53; Noes, 273.
Murray, Hon. A. C. (Aberdeen) | Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich) | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
Murray, Rt. Hon. C. D. (Edinburgh) | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) | Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell- (Maryhill) |
Murray, John (Leeds, West) | Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor) | Thorpe, Captain John Henry |
Nall, Major Joseph | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) | Townley, Maximilian G. |
Neal, Arthur | Roundell, Colonel R. F. | Tryon, Major George Clement |
Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) | Turton, Edmund Russborough |
Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) | Vickers, Douglas |
Newson, Sir Percy Wilson | Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur | Wallace, J. |
Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. | Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor |
Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) | Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) | Walton, J. (York, W. R., Don Valley) |
Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster) | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) | Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) |
Nicholson, William G. (Petersfleid) | Seddon, J. A. | Ward, William Dudley (Southampton) |
Nield, Sir Herbert | Seely, Major-General Rt. Hon. John | Waring, Major Walter |
Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock) | Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. |
Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G. | Shaw, William T. (Forfar) | Watson, Captain John Bertrand |
Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) | Weston, Colonel John Wakefield |
Palmer, Major Godfrey Mark | Simm, M. T. | Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. |
Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L. | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) | White, Cal. G. D. (Southport) |
Parker, James | Smith, Sir Harold (Warrington) | Willey, Lieut.-Colonel F. V. |
Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry | Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander | Williams, C. (Tavistock) |
Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike | Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston) | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir M. (Bethnal Gn.) |
Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) | Stanton, Charles Butt | Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) |
Perkins, Walter Frank | Starkey, Captain John Ralph | Windsor, Viscount |
Pickering, Colonel Emil W. | Steel, Major S. Strang | Winterton, Earl |
Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles | Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. | Wise, Frederick |
Pollock, Rt. Hon. Sir Ernest Murray | Stewart, Gershom | Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) |
Poison, Sir Thomas A. | Strauss, Edward Anthony | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Asshcton | Sturrock, J. Leng | Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde) |
Pratt. John William | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. | Sugdon, W. H. | Yeo, Sir Alfred William |
Purchase, H. G. | Surtees, Brigadier-General H. C. | Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon) |
Rae, Sir Henry N. | Sutherland, Sir William | Younger, Sir George |
Remer, J. R. | Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield) | |
Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) | Taylor, J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
|
Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) | Thomas, Sir Robert J. (Wrexham) | Mr. McCurdy and Colonel Leslie Wilson. |
I think it would be for the convenience of the Committee as a whole if the Chancellor of the Exchequer could indicate how far he intends to go to-night.
Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, I should like to put this point to him. As far as the Labour party are concerned, we should like the Chancellor of the Exchequer to go on. It is well known that the Labour party are meeting in their annual conference. There is a large number of our Members who will remain here at considerable inconvenience, and, naturally, they want to take part to the fullest possible extent in the discussions on the Finance Bill. I wish to put that consideration before the Chancellor of the Exchequer before he replies to my right hon. Friend.
I desire to go as far as possible, but I am conscious of the fact that if any work is to be done to-morrow I must not overstrain the energies of the Committee to-night. I am anxious to meet the convenience of the Committee to the fullest possible extent. It is absolutely necessary, however, that we should at least accomplish the discussion of the Beer Duty to-night. There is another Amendment, following immediately after that in which hon. Members of the Labour party are interested, and I desire to meet the wishes of the right hon. Gentleman who has just spoken, in regard to it. If he wishes to have that Amendment taken I do not think it would occupy a large amount of time, as it could be discussed with a narrow compass, and we might taken it also before we adjourn.