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Oral Answers To Questions

Volume 159: debated on Monday 27 November 1922

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Russia

Negotiations

1.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any steps are in contemplation for the renewal of the negotiations with the Government of the Russian Republic begun at Genoa this year and continued at the Hague; and what is the present state of these negotiations?

A full statement was made in the House on the 26th July on the Hague Conference. I cannot add anything to that statement at present.

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly give me an answer to the last part of my question, namely, what is the present state of these negotiations? Has anything been done since July last?

No, Sir. The state of the negotiations was, as the lion, and gallant Member will recollect, that the Russians were to make certain statements and take certain steps. As far as I know they have not done so.

Are we simply Sitting down on it now, or are we, through the usual channels, finding out whether there is any chance of renewing the negotiations?

Our position is perfectly clear. I should be only too glad to know that the Russians had taken the course indicated.

Has any statement or report been received at the Foreign Office here from the British Mission in Russia with regard to the negotistions?

Soviet Government (Recognition)

17.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to recognise the Russian Government?

The question of diplomatic recognition must necessarily depend upon the conditions which the Russian Government is prepared to accept and give effect to.

Is it not a fact that the Government are quite prepared to recognise a Government that is established by a coup d'etat of Whites, but not one established under the same conditions by a coup d'etat of Reds?

Is it not the case that in the preamble to the trading treaty presented to the House, the late Government stated that the treaty was to be in existence until such time as an arrangement could be come to resuming diplomatic relations with Russia? When is that to be considered?

That is exactly what I have said. When the Russian Government accept the conditions that are laid down, the question of recognition will arise.

Will the conditions laid down by the Government to the Russian Government be laid before the House?

How is it, when the Russian Government is invited to the Lausanne Conference, you continue this policy of pin-pricking by refusing to recognise them when they are taking part on equal terms with us in the Conference?

In view of the fact that we have given the Russian Government partial recognition by reason of the setting up of the British Mission at Moscow appointed by the Foreign Office, what else stands in the way?

That is the same question over again. The question on the Paper is as to diplomatic recognition. That must depend on the conditions the Russian Government are prepared to accept.

Are the conditions referred to those laid down at the Hague Conference 01 in some other form?

I should have to refer to them before giving an answer. The right hon. Gentleman must give me notice.

In view of the fact that the British Mission now in Moscow has been appointed by the Foreign Office, is not that diplomatic recognition of the Russian Government; and, if so, what further stands in the way of setting up our Ambassador?

37.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the obstacles which the non-recognition of the Russian Government interposes to the resumption of full commercial relations with Russia. His Majesty's Government will consider the advisability of giving full diplomatic recognition to the Russian Government?

So far as I am aware there is no foundation for the assumption that trade with Russia is in any way limited by the fact that the Soviet Government has not yet been accorded de jure recognition. If the hon. Member for Dundee will give me particulars of any case in point, I will go into it.

What about the Urquhart agreement, the result of which was attributed both by Mr. Urquhart and by the Russian Government to the fact that that Government have not yet received diplomatic recognition?

If the hon. Gentleman will read my answer, he will see that if any case be brought to my notice, I will go into it.

Trade And Commerce

Bills Of Lading

2.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the undertaking given by his predecessor on the 3rd July of this year, and the demand from both merchants and shipowners, be will take an early opportunity of bringing in legislation with regard to bills of lading?

I will consider very carefully the question to which my hon. Friend refers, but it is not at this stage possible to make any definite statement as to the introduction of legislation.

Is it not the case that an agreement has been come to with the Chamber of Shipping and the Federation of Traders' Organisations, and that there is no reason why there should be any delay in introducing legislation on this subject?

I think the hon. Member knows what the position was at the end of last Session. I quite agree that there is a large measure of agreement, but since then there has been the International Maritime Convention, followed by a meeting of the Commission at The Hague. I am considering the effect of these, and am hoping to take up the matter very shortly.

Merchandise Marks Bill

3.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the Merchandise Marks Bill, which received a Second Reading in the last Session of the previous Parliament, will be re-introduced in the present Session?

It is not proposed to introduce Merchandise Marks legislation before Christmas.

Is not this Bill looked forward to by the trading community in the country with the greatest possible interest, and was not an assurance given that the Bill would be introduced in the Autumn Session?

As the hon. Member knows, this Session has assembled for a very particular purpose, and I think it is the general wish of the House that it should be got through as rapidly as possible.

I do not think I can make a statement on that at present. The Cabinet has only just assembled, and all future legislation will have to be considered.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this Bill is looked upon with alarm by other sections of the trading community?

Export Credit Facilities

7.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he proposes to lay before Parliament any plan for increasing credit facilities, or otherwise encouraging export trade?

The proposals foreshadowed in His Majesty's Gracious Speech will be laid before the Home without delay. My hon. and gallant Friend will appreciate that it is not practicable for me to anticipate the full statement which will be made on these proposals, but I can assure him that the interests of the export trade will engage the unremitting attention of the Government.

Safeguarding Of Industries Act

Key Industries

4.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, whether he can present a statement showing the various key industries which have been enabled to continue and extend their activities in consequence of the operation of Part I of the Safeguarding of Industries Act; and whether he can also show a similar statement giving approximately the number of persons who have been enabled to continue in permanent employment consequent upon the application to the industry upon which they have been engaged of Part II of the same Act?

My present information indicates that the industries affected by Part I of the Safeguarding of Industries Act have been enabled to continue, and that the range of production has been considerably extended. With regard to the second part of the question, I have recently requested the trade associations concerned to furnish my Department with periodical information as to employment in the industries covered by Orders made under Part II of the Act, but returns are not yet available. In this connection I would remind my hon. Friend that the Orders have only been in operation some three months, and in one case for a still shorter period.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say that in point of fact this Act has conferred certain distinct advantages on the industries of this country?

Will the right hon. Gentleman publish to the House the official information after making an ex parte, statement?

I have not made an ex parte statement. I was asked what was the deduction from the information in my possession, and I have given that.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also inquire how many men have been thrown out of employment by this legislation?

I have no reason to suppose that a single man has been thrown out of employment.

Is it not a fact that since the Fabric Gloves Order was made the export of cotton yarn from Lancashire to Germany has been reduced by very nearly one million pounds weight?

Duty (Receipts)

9.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how much has been received by way of duty up to the latest date available in respect of each class of articles or commodities in which Orders have been made under Part II of the Safeguarding of Industries Act?

The amounts of -duty collected under Part II of the Safeguarding of Industries Act up to the 24th instant, in respect of the various classes of articles included in the Orders made there under, are:

£
Fabric gloves50,695
Glove fabric
Domestic glassware995
Illuminating glassware3,599
Domestic hollow-ware8,370
Mantles for incandescent lighting35
Total£63,694
The Order under Part II of the Safeguarding of Industries Act in respect of all the above commodities except incandescent gas mantles was dated 8th August, 1922; that in respect of incandescent gas mantles was dated 9th October, 1922.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any idea of the expense of collecting those trifling sums?

I could not answer that without notice, but not so much as the amount received.

Orders (Part Ii)

10.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has made in the Recess any Orders under Part II of the Safeguarding of Industries Act; and, if so, for what articles?

One Order has been made during the Recess, relating to mantles for incandescent lighting and their component parts, manufactured in Germany.

What is the general result of that Order on the value of the shares of the Welsbach Company?

As that is not a relevant question, I must ask for notice of it.

Shipping (Foreign Repairs)

8.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the approximate loss in British shipping tonnage and the value of ship repair work which has been placed in foreign yards during the past two years which normally would have been carried out in this country: and the approximate number of workmen normally engaged in this industry who are in consequence unemployed?

There is no obligation to report the cases in which ships are repaired or reconditioned abroad, and it is not possible, therefore, to give even approximate figures which would be more than the merest conjecture.

Would not the diversion of British ships back to British yards have a far-reaching effect on trade and employment, without any dislocation of the shipping industry, and do the Government contemplate taking any steps to solve this problem?

Undoubtedly the transfer of work now done abroad in reconditioning ships to British yards would be a most admirable thing, but I think the possibility of that rests rather with all sections of the trade concerned than with His Majesty's Government.

Living (Cost)

5.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what percentage above pre-War figures the present cost of living is in Germany, France, Belgium and Italy: and if the figures are at all comparable with the cost of living in this country?

I have been asked to reply. As the answer includes a number of detailed figures, I will, if I may, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the answer:

According to the most recent official index numbers published, the percentages by which the cost of living has risen above the pre-War level are as follows:

Germany22,000
France (Paris)202
Belgium276
Italy344 and 404 (Rome and Milan respectively).

In other words, the cost of maintaining a given pre-War working-class standard of living has risen:

In Germany to221 times
In Paris to about3 times
In Belgium to about3¾ times
In Rome to about4½ times
In Milan to about5 times

what it was in 1914.

In the case of France, the figure relates to the 2nd quarter of 1922. For the other countries it relates to the month of October.

Some reserve must be used in drawing any general conclusions from a comparison between these figures and the corresponding figure for this country, since neither the nature and scope of the primary data nor the methods used in combining them in an index-number, are absolutely identical in any two countries.

6.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what the present standard of cost of living is above pre-War in Great Britain: if the last ascertained figures show an increase or decrease; and, if so, what percentage?

I have been asked to reply. At 1st November, the cost of maintaining unchanged the pre-War standard of living of working-class families, as indicated by the statistics prepared by the Ministry of Labour, averaged approximately 80 per cent, above the level of July, 1914. The figure for the previous month was 78.

Mines (Subsidence)

11.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether it is his intention to bring in a Bill making if. compulsory to compensate house and other property owners, and also local authorities, for loss caused by subsidence through the working of coal or other minerals?

The question of introducing legislation to deal with this matter in a comprehensive way on the lines suggested by one or other of the various Committees and individuals who have studied the subject has been the subject of prolonged consideration by my Department, but it is clear that any scheme which would give the surface occupier any additional relief to that to which he may already be entitled under the terms of his title deed or otherwise under the existing law must involve the imposition of an additional financial burden either on the taxpayer or on the ratepayer or on the mining industry, and in present circumstances I see no prospect of being able to propose legislation of this character.

Education

Provision Of Meals

12.

asked the President of the Board of Education the total number of children attending elementary and secondary schools who were receiving school meals at the end of October, and for the same period last year; and the total cost in each case?

The total number of public elementary school children in receipt of school meals under the former provision of Meals Acts (now re-enacted in Sections 82 to 85 of the Education (Consolidation) Act, 1921) at the end of October, 1922, was 52,921, as compared with 100,266 at the end of October, 1921. I cannot give the total gross or net cost of meals provided up to that date, but the average cost per meal supplied during the year ending 31st March, 1922, was 3·88d. The Provision of Meals Acts did not extend to secondary schools.

If the present rate of unemployment continues over the winter, is it the intention of the Department to continue the Provision of Meals (School Children) Act?

The question of the provision of meals is governed by Statute and I have no power to interfere with the operation of the Statute. It is laid down by Parliament.

Is it not a fact that the reduction in the number of children is due to the amount paid for the feeding of the children being placed against the amount of out-relief paid to the parents?

To a certain extent that is so, because a short time ago it became apparent that the design of Parliament to provide meals from the point of view of the education of the children was, to some extent, being used as poor relief and it was not an educational service.

That means that it has been shifted from the central fund on to the local rates.

Number of Schools.Recognised Accommodation.
Council Schools.Voluntary Schools.Total.Council Schools.Voluntary Schools.Total.
England7,60311,38218,9853,942,8782,581,6916,524,469
Wales1,2796271,906458,626103,275561,901
England and Wales8,88212,00920,8914,401,5042,684,8667,086,370

Elementary School Teachers, Gateshead

15.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that the town council of Gateshead has decided to dismiss all teachers in its service and that all the elementary schools are now closed and have been closed since 31st October; if he can explain how this state of things has arisen; and what action he intends to take in the matter?

I understand that the local education authority for Gateshead proposed that the scale of salaries for teachers in public elementary schools of the area should be reduced from Standard Scale III of the Burnham Committee's Report to Standard Scale II. The teachers concerned did not agree to the proposal, and the authority, therefore, decided to give them notice for the termination of their engagements, intending to re-engage them at the lower scale. The teachers have net consented to this, and the schools are at present closed. I am watching the situation closely, and hope that an opportunity may occur for a re-consideration of the position by all parties concerned.

Is there no means by which you can interfere with the unfortunate system which is causing 23,000 children not to be receiving education?

Elementary Schools (Accommodation)

13.

asked the President of the Board of Education the number of provided and non-provided elementary schools in England and Wales in 1913 and 1922, respectively; and the accommodation in such schools?

I think I can answer the last question by answering the first. The attitude of the Board with regard to the question of the scales has always been that while they would recognise the Burnham scales for the payment of grant, they have always held that it is not their province to impose the scales on local authorities if they are not willing to adopt them, and with regard to what the hon. Member for Gateshead (Mr. Brotherton) says, I fully recognise the deplorable situation, and should be only too glad to use any influence in my power to assist towards a solution.

Juveniles (Employment)

14.

asked the President of the Board of Education what was the total number of boys and girls who left the elementary schools at the end of the last summer term in the London area and in England and Wales, respectively; and whether he has any record showing the total number of these who have obtained regular employment?

I regret that I cannot give figures for the children who left school at the end of any particular term, and the latest complete figures which I have are for those who left school in the course of the year ending 31st March, 1921. I will send my hon. Friend those figures, but I have no information as to how many of the children who left to enter employment did, in fact, obtain regular employment.

Could the hon. Gentleman consider the question of what is going to be done with these boys and girls, from 14, who have not passed to secondary schools and cannot get employment?

Mexico (British Creditors)

13.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any information as to a proposal of the Mexican Government to honour their national obligations to British creditors in respect to Mexican Government securities issued prior to 1910?

His Majesty's Government are informed that an agreement was made on 16th June last between the Mexican Government and an international bankers' committee providing for the readjustment of Mexican Government obligations and the resumption of payments by the Mexican Government on an agreed basis. The first payments under this arrangement are due to be made during the year 1923. The agreement has been approved by the Mexican Congress.

Near East

Smyrna (Evacuation)

19.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on what date the Greek troops had evacuated Smyrna; on what date the Turkish cavalry entered Smyrna; and whether the evidence of witnesses is to the effect that the fire in the Armenian quarters was started by Turkish soldiers?

According to the information of His Majesty's Government, the Greek troops completed the evacuation of Smyrna on the evening of 8th September. Turkish cavalry entered Smyrna at 11 a.m. on the next day. The evidence of reliable witnesses is to the effect that the fire was started by Turkish soldiers.

Ex-Sultan Of Turkey

21.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is the intention of the British Government to keep the late Sultan of Turkey at a cost of £100 per week?

33.

asked the Prime Minister if the deposed ex-Sultan of Turkey is in receipt of monetary assistance from His Majesty's Government; and, if so, from what fund and what is his private income?

The question of the extent to which His Majesty's Government should bear unavoidable expenditure caused by the Sultan's temporary accommodation in Malta is at present under consideration. Inquiry is being made on the subject of the Sultan's private resources, on which His Majesty's Government at present have no information.

When it comes about that he is receiving financial assistance, will he sign the unemployment register before he receives the dole?

Non-Turkish Population

81.

asked the Prime Minister what measures His Majesty's Government is taking, in view of the present menance to the lives and property of the non-Turkish population of Constantinople and of the responsibilities of the Allies in the matter, to assist in the evacuation of the threatened population by the provision of transport facilities or otherwise?

The subject raised in this question is one of the very important points now being discussed at Lausanne, and it is not possible for me at present to make any definite statement.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether assista7ice in removing refugees will be given as adequately as was given at Smyrna?

I cannot say. All I can say is that the matter is being carefully considered.

Have our naval authorities instructions to act in case of massacre, so that they may be able to take people away if cases similar to those which occurred in Smyrna should arise?

I cannot say definitely what instructions have been given to the naval authorities, but all possible steps with the fleet at our disposal are being taken to that end.

32.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the decision of the Angora Government to expel all non-Turkish women and children from Anatolia, while conscribing for military service all males between 18 and 45; whether he can give the House any additional information upon this subject; and what steps His Majesty's Government proposes to take both to prevent the execution of this policy and also to remove to a place of safety the many thousands of non-Turks who are gathering in the Anatolian seaports under threat of expulsion?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. In regard to the second part, His Majesty's Government do not consider the present moment, while delicate negotiations are in progress, suitable for the publication of further information on this subject. In regard to the third and fourth parts, these matters are at present receiving urgent attention at Lausanne.

Would the Government approach the British Dominions with a view to finding places of destination for the refugees?

Naval And Military Expenditure

27.

asked the Prime Minister what additional expenditure over and above the original Estimates has been incurred to date in connection with the Near Eastern crisis and the naval and military demonstrations against the Turkish Nationalist forces; and whether it is intended to introduce a Supplementary Estimate?

The additional expenditure incurred to date is estimated at £2,475,000. It will be necessary to lay Supplementary Estimates before the House next Session.

May I ask the Prime Minister whether all the Papers relative to the Near Eastern situation will be laid before the Supplementary Estimates, so that we may have full information?

Supplementary Estimates will not be until next Session. I hope that by that time one can safely lay all the necessary Papers.

How is it that when we want two battle cruisers to go to Rio for the exhibition at a cost of half a million sterling—

29.

asked the Prime Minister whether any Estimate has been framed by the Cabinet as to the weekly cost of military, naval, and air forces now involved in the Dardanelles, including the cost of victualling and coaling; and, if so, what is the weekly cost?

The additional cost now being incurred week by week (exclusive of initial and terminal charges) is estimated at £63,500.

League Of Nations

39.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider as to the advisability of immediately submitting the Turkish question to the League of Nations for settlement in accordance with Article 17 of the Covenant?

Article 17 of the Covenant of the League is intended to apply to cases where it may be possible to prevent the outbreak of hostilities, and not to a war actually engaged. A conference of the belligerents concerned is now being held at Lausanne, with the object of bringing to a final conclusion the negotiations for a settlement in the Near East which were begun at the general Peace Conference. I fear that at present no useful purpose could be served by the intervention of the League of Nations.

Attack On British Officer, Ingoldstadt

20.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention drawn to the attack reported to have been made and organised upon a British officer member of the Allied Commission of Control at Ingoldstadt; and whether he can make any statement upon it?

I have been asked to answer this question. I can only say at present that the attention of the Government has been drawn to this incident and that the steps to be taken in the matter are under consideration.

Will it be made quite clear by the Government that any further attacks upon British officers will not be tolerated?

Rabbits Bill

22.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he intends to introduce this Session of Parliament the Rabbits Bill, which was printed and introduced during the last Session of the late Parliament?

Agricultural Produce (Prices)

24.

asked the Minister of Agriculture what steps he is taking to investigate the exact extent and character of the intermediate charges upon milk and other agricultural produce between the farm and the home, so as to ensure the fair treatment both of producer and consumer?

36.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been directed to the discrepancies between the prices paid to producers and those charged to consumers; whether he is aware of the existence of profiteering by middlemen; and if it is the intention of the Government to take steps to put a stop to this practice which imposes additional burdens on the people?

42.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government proposes to set up a Select Committee to inquire into the causes of the discrepancy between the prices of wheat and bread and of cattle and meat; and, if so, when that Select Committee will be appointed?

46.

asked the Prime Minister if he will appoint a Committee with the fullest powers possible to inquire into the question of the price of foodstuffs?

I am proposing to a Departmental Committee to into the methods and cost of and distributing agricultural, horticultural and dairy produce and to consider whether and, if so, by what means, the disparity between the price secured by the producer and that paid by the consumer may be diminished. The matter is one of great complexity and I think an enquiry by means of a Departmental Committee is more likely to lead to useful results than if it were made by a Select Committee of this House. The exact terms of reference and the composition of the Committee will be announced with as little delay as possible.

In view of the great dissatisfaction in the country in regard to this matter, will the right hon. Gentleman set up the Departmental Committee at the earliest date?

I assume that this will have reference to England and docs not include Scotland?

Germany (Allied Occupation)

25.

asked the Prime Minister whether any bargain or arrangement has been made whereby, in return for French support in the Near East question, we undertake to retain British troops on the Rhine and to countenance continued Allied occupation of German territory in those parts?

Ministry Of Pensions

26.

asked the Prime Minister whether he proposes to appoint an Under-Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions?

Whether an Under-Secretary is necessary is now under consideration, but I am not yet able to announce a decision.

Will the right Gentleman be able to tell the House when my Amendment is reached?

I do not see that my right hon. Friend's Amendment is affected by this question, but I hope to be able to answer it on Friday.

Inter-Allied Debts

28.

asked the Prime Minister whether any suggestions have been made by either the French Government or by Signor Mussolini to include in the discussion at Lausanne the question of inter-Allied debts; and whether the House can be assured that His Majesty's Government still stand by the Balfour Note on this subject?

50.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Balfour Note still represents the policy of His Majesty's Government?

The answer to the first part of Question No. 28 is in the negative. So fair no formal discussion with our Allies has taken place on the subject of reparations; and when it does the Government will be free to consider the question in all its aspects.

are we to understand from that answer that this Government does hold itself open to revise the policy laid down in the Balfour Note in regard to inter-Allied debts?

It does mean that we are perfectly free to reconsider the question in all its aspects.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not be intimidated by the fact that the Labour party alone support the Balfour Note?

As I do not quite follow the hon. Member's question, I cannot reply.

International Treaties

30.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to submit for the consideration and approval of this House all international obligations which may be incurred by this country by means of treaties, agreements, understandings, or conversations with the Government of any foreign Power?

34.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in the event of a treaty or other international understanding being entered into between the Powers now conferring at Lausanne, the same will be submitted to the House of Commons for discussion and approval prior to its ratification?

44.

asked the Prime Minister whether an early opportunity will be given to this House to discuss the question of submitting to this House before ratification all treaties with a foreign Power or Powers involving the potential use of the armed forces of the Crown; and whether an early opportunity will be given to this House to discuss the desirability of all conventions, agreements, or understandings of any kind involving the potential use of the armed forces of the Crown being regarded as invalid unless submitted to, and approved by, this House after the fullest discussion?

I realise the desirability of keeping Parliament as fully informed as possible of any obligations into which His Majesty's Government may enter by means of treaties or other similar engagements; but I am not prepared to commit myself to the grave constitutional change proposed by the hon. Members, which is particularly unsuitable to be dealt with in the way of question and answer.

Will the Prime Minister allow a day in the course of the Session for the discussion of this most important matter?

I certainly cam or promise a day during this Session, but if we live there will be plenty of opportunities later.

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is prepared to place upon the Table of this House the text of any existing treaties, conventions, arrangements, or understandings of any kind whatsoever with a foreign Power or Powers, committing this country in obligations involving war, or which may be open lo such interpretation, and of which this House and the country have at present no knowledge?

The object desired by the hon. Member is attained by Article 18 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to which His Majesty's Government have strictly conformed. I know of no other unpublished treaties or similar engagements, to which His Majesty's Government are a party, which involve this country in such obligations as those to which the hon. Member refers.

Iraq (Aircraft Action)

35.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Royal Air Force, or any part of it, or any force of aircraft under the control of British authorities, is or has been engaged in en-forcing or attempting to enforce upon any part of the population of the mandated territory of Iraq the payment of taxes, either by bomb-dropping or otherwise; if so, whether the British Government has concurred in the taking of such measures; if not, whether, under the existing constitution of that territory, it would be possible for such measures to be taken without the knowledge of the British Government; whether he is in a position to make a full statement upon the matter; and, if not, whether he will order a full inquiry and lay the results upon the Table of this House?

There is no foundation for any suggestion that bomb dropping or other offensive action by aircraft is resorted to in Iraq or any other area for the purpose of enforcing payment of taxes or in punishment for non-payment. The normal duties of aircraft in Iraq are those of patrol and communication. Offensive action is in no case undertaken except in reply to open and armed defiance of the administration or to attacks upon the native police forces of a kind which would otherwise necessitate expeditions by ground units. Such action, when undertaken, is under sole control of the British authorities, acting at the request of the Arab Government. In order to give every opportunity to the tribes concerned to submit to the Government, explicit warnings are habitually issued to them before any air action is taken, and these warnings, even when they do not lead to immediate submission, enable the inhabitants to withdraw from the area selected. The result is that casualties have been few.

I am assured that the use of aircraft under these conditions has achieved insults at least equal to those obtainable by ground expeditions and at a smaller toll of life and property. The reports received show that the number of cases in which the mere threat of air action is sufficient to bring about the desired result far exceeds the occasions where offensive air action is found to be actually necessary, and the High Commissioner reports that it is no exaggeration to say that air action amongst the Euphrates tribes has saved far more human lives than it has destroyed by restoring order and preventing inter-tribal fighting.

The Secretary of State is in communication with the High Commissioner on the whole subject, and as soon as full details have been received the matter will be exhaustively reviewed by His Majesty's Government.

Ex-Service Men

Training And Employment

38.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is proposed to accept the recommendations contained in the Report of the Select Committee on the Training and Employment of Disabled Ex-service Men?

I have been asked to reply. The Government propose to proceed broadly on the lines recommended by the Select Committee, and I am inviting the Lord Mayors, Lord Provosts and Mayors to set up the King's Roll Committees in their areas forthwith. It has also been decided to appoint a King's Roll National Council, and I am glad to be able to announce that Field-Marshal Earl Haig has consented to be Chairman.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that shifting one man out of a job to put another into it does not touch the question of unemployment, as the new man is simply taking the job of his predecessor?

I am not sure that that arises out of the question, but the general underlying considerations are present to my mind.

Have any training establishments been closed down lately, and are the same arrangements still being carried on?

I would like to have notice of that question, but there are abundant places vacant for training purposes in the factories which are now open.

49.

asked the Prime Minister what immediate steps he proposes to take to ameliorate the position of the ex-service men during the forthcoming winter?

I have been asked to reply. A full statement of the proposals of the Government for dealing with unemployment will be made at the appropriate time during the Debate on the Address; but meanwhile I can assure the hon. Member that in preparing these proposals the Government have kept constantly in mind the special claims of ex-service men.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that ex-service men are lying in wash-houses and stables and are in receipt of only 15s. a week, though they have wives and families?

Honours (Recommendations)

40.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the desirability of not making any recommendations for honours until the Report of the Royal Commission on the distribution of honours is issued?

I hope that the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Honours will be received before any further honours list is submitted.

Had the Royal Commission before them the detailed cases, particulars of which have been given recently in the Press?

I cannot answer that. I have not been in communication with them.

Have the Commission given any indication as to when the Report is likely to be received?

I have not seen the Chairman, but I am informed that it is quite likely to be in a week-or two.

Local Authorities (Financial Provision) Act, 1921

41.

asked the Prime Minister whether he intends to introduce an' Expiring Laws Continuance Bill; and, if so, whether he will include therein provision to continue the Local Authorities (Financial Provision) Act, 1921, which comes to an end in December next?

The Expiring Laws Act, 1922, became law in August, and the Government do not propose to introduce a further Measure of the kind this year. The questions arising out of the expiry at the end of next month of Section I of the Local Authorities (Financial Provisions) Act are at present under consideration.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if this Act be not renewed the poorer boroughs in London will be bankrupt, as it is impossible to carry on, and they will have the same position again as they had a year ago?

The matter is under the consideration of the Minister of Health, for whom I am taking the question at the moment, but I am sure that the consideration referred to is present to his mind.

If there is nobody on that bench who does understand the subject, may I ask the Prime Minister to put there somebody who does? I appeal to the Prime Minister. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] You will not put me down that way. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "Better!"] —hold your tongues—whether he will kindly get the necessary information, make himself acquainted with the subject, and give me an answer to this question to-morrow?

I think that I am fairly well acquainted with the subject, but if I understood my hon. Friend's question, it relates to a certain decision. I would suggest, therefore, that if he wants a more definite answer on a point of policy involving a decision he should put a question down.

I have asked you a question, and you are not able to answer it. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"]

Royal Navy

New Battleships

43.

asked the Prime Minister whether, seeing that our present expenditure on the fighting forces is double that of pre-War, he will, before sanctioning orders being placed for two new battleships, ascertain whether sums already allocated are being properly spent; and whether the sum necessary for the provision of two new battleships would be better employed for defence purposes in the equipment of an efficient air force?

I am not at present in a position to give a definite answer to this question, as the Cabinet has not yet had time to re-examine this and similar questions of expenditure.

Before any definite order is given for any battleship, will the House of Commons have an opportunity of expressing its opinion on the matter, and also expressing its opinion as to whether the money would not be better spent on aircraft than on battleships?

Is it not a fact that the House of Commons has already had an opportunity of expressing an opinion?

If hon. Members endeavour to debate every question by question and answer it will be unfair to those whose questions are lower down on the Paper.

62.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what progress has been made with respect to giving out the orders for the construction of the two new battleships, their armament, and armour; and whether, with a view to relieving the unemployment in the centres interested, he can at once expedite such orders?

63.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can now say what steps have been taken with regard to the placing of con tracts in the matter of new capital ships; whether it is the intention of the Government to lay down one of these ships in the Royal dockyards; if so, whether he will consider the advisability of laying one down at Devonport; whether he is aware that the lengthening of the slip at Devonport would give work to a consider able number of men who are now unemployed; and, seeing that the undertaking is a necessity, can he give any assurance that the work will be started immediately?

Tenders for the construction of the two new battleships and their armament and armour have been invited and some have been already considered. I hope that a decision will be reached in the whole matter very shortly, but the latest tenders are not due till the end of this month, so that a final decision cannot be given for some days yet. I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for Devonport (Sir C. Kinloch-Cooke) that the possibilities of building in the Royal yards have been fully explored, but I regret that the Board of Admiralty could not accept the very serious delay in completion of one of the ship's, if it were built at Devonport, where the slip on which it would be built could not possibly be ready for some 18 months.

Would it not have been possible, if the slip had been enlarged 18 months ago, to have given instructions that the ships should be built in the Devonport Dock- yard, and was this possibility not brought to the right hon. Gentleman's notice 18 months ago?

That would have involved a cessation of the work which, was being done in the dockyard during the 18 months.

Is it not true that I brought to the notice of the right hon. Gentleman—

Hms "Berwick"

64.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Admiralty whether H.M.S. "Berwick" was sold by public auction or by tender to German purchasers for breaking up; if by tender, whether the ship was advertised in the shipping newspapers as being for sale; how many tenders were received; and, if the ship was not so advertised, how tenders were obtained?

The "Berwick," which was sold over two years ago, was re-sold to a German shipbreaker with Admiralty permission, to enable the British buyer, who was in financial difficulties, to continue his operations on other ships.

Obsolete Vessels (Sale)

65.

further asked the Financial Secretary to the Admiralty what steps have been taken since 1915, beyond exhibiting notices in dockyards and on Government premises, by which the public have, in every case, been informed that certain obsolete vessels were lying up and awaiting offers for purchase at breaking up prices?

The widest publicity has been given to the sale of these obsolete ships. In addition to advertisement, tenders have been issued to likely purchasers—sometimes to as many as 200 firms. Furthermore, in October, 1921, a special notice was issued by the Admiralty in the Press, a copy of which I am sending to my hon. Friend, that such vessels would be sold on a scheme of payment by instalments with a view to providing employment of ex-service men in the work of demolition.

Scotland (Questions To Ministers)

47.

asked the Prime Minister to whom questions regarding Scotland should ho addressed?

48.

asked the Prime Minister to which Minister of His Majesty's Government in this House questions relating to Scottish affairs should be addressed?

Questions should be addressed to the Under-Secretary for Scotland but they will at present be answered on his behalf by the First Commissioner of Works.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether any steps are being taken to secure direct representation in this House for Scottish interests?

We shall arrange it as soon as possible. Perhaps the hon. Member would give us his seat?

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it advisable that the Secretary for Scotland should be a Member of this House and not a superannuated Commissioner-General in the other House?

Cabinet Secretariat

51.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can state in detail what arrangements have been made with regard to the Cabinet Secretariat; whether Sir Maurice Hankey is still secretary to the Cabinet; and, if so, what are his functions and to what Department does he belong?

In reply to the first and last parts of the question, the Cabinet Secretariat has been very considerably reduced in numbers and will be transferred to the Vote of the Treasury and Subordinate Departments. The answer to the second part of the question is in the affirmative With regard to the third part, the functions of the Secretary are to provide such secretarial service as the Cabinet requires to facilitate the transaction of its business.

Ministry Of Pensions

52.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Government to abolish the office of Minister of Pensions, and when they propose that it shall come into operation?

As the hon. Member knows, it is impossible to do anything without legislation. Nothing will be done in the present Session: so there is no hurry in the matter.

Irish Free State (Currency)

53.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Provisional Government of Southern Ireland has proposed to issue £20.000,000 worth of paper money; whether the British Government has been asked to guarantee the issue: and whether it has come to any decision regarding the matter?

I am not aware of any such proposal. No such request has been made to the British Government.

Agricultural Wages (Conciliation Committees)

54.

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government will grant an inquiry into the effect of the abolition of agricultural wages boards and into the degree of success obtained by the county conciliation committees in maintaining an adequate standard of wages in agriculture?

I have been asked to reply. I am advised that the county conciliation committees established by the Corn Production Acts (Repeal) Act have met with a considerable measure of success, agreements having been reached in 55 areas. In September last there were 49 agreements actually in operation. The recent fall in the prices of agricultural produce has checked for the moment the settlement of winter wages in many districts, though there are 17 agreements in force at present, of which 11 have been come to during the past six weeks. The Government do not think that an inquiry would bring to light any facts not already known.

If an inquiry cannot be granted for the whole country, can one be granted for those counties where wages have fallen below subsistence level?

Imperial Economic Conference

55.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is able to indicate an approximate date for the meeting of the Empire Trade Conference?

56.

asked the Prime Minister if he has consulted the Governments of the Empire overseas as to the holding of an imperial economic conference; and, if so, with what result?

No, Sir. I am not yet in a position to make any statement on the subject. I expect that the telegrams to the Dominions will be sent during the course of this week, but I am not able to give any further information to-day.

Newspapers (Government Information)

57.

asked the Prime Minister whether, on 21st November, his secretary summoned the representatives of certain selected newspapers to Downing Street and gave them particulars of an alleged plot, amongst certain unemployed workmen to raise His Majesty's subjects in rebellion against the Crown; whether the newspapers' representatives were told not to give the source of their information; on what evidence this charge of treason was based; whether any of the alleged plotters have been apprehended; and why an official communique1 was not issued to all newspapers instead of the above course being taken?

I have nothing to add to what I said in the Debate on Thursday last.

Does the right hon. Gentleman still maintain that all newspapers were invited to attend this conference?

No, Sir. I do not think I said so. I said that I thought all London newspapers were invited. But I find that, as a matter of fact, the "Daily Herald" was not there.

That is not surprising, because hon. Members will be the first to recognise that my secretary would hardly expect them to help the object we had in view. At the same time, if I had been consulted, I should have sent an invitation to that paper.

Can the salary of the gentleman who conveyed this false information to the country be called into question on a Vote of this House?

I am the person who gave instructions, and, therefore, the matter can be called into question on any opportunity of dealing with me.

Do I understand that the right hon. Gentleman accepts responsibility for the statement that these men, the leaders of the unemployed of the country, are criminals?

Did the right hon. Gentleman give instructions to his secretary that the newspapers were to be told not to give the source of information?

I have inquired into that, since the hon. Member put the question once before. The information was given as information of fact, and it was left to the newspapers to publish it as information coming from them. If we had merely intended to send it as a communiqué we should have sent it in that form, but we gave it as far as possible to papers of all political complexions.

The reason why the information supplied to other newspapers was not given to the "Daily Herald" being that the "Daily Herald" would not have assisted the Government in the object in view, will the Prime Minister be good enough to state what was the real object which the Government had in view in submitting it to a few selected papers?

I have already given the information. It was to prevent a riot. I should think that the whole subject could be discussed again on the Amendment to the Address relating to unemployment.

Germany (Taxes On British Subjects)

58.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that British subjects living in Potsdam have been ordered to pay taxes five times higher than those paid by Germans; whether this is in accord with the Treaty of Versailles; if not, what action His Majesty's Government intends to take in the matter; whether he is aware that the State of Thuringia and the municipality of Baden Baden also have special taxes levied upon British subjects; whether he is aware that in Berlin British subjects are specially taxed by the municipality; and whether the Government will take action to prevent these imposts or, alternatively, to levy a special tax upon German subjects in this country?

The whole question of the levying by the German Government authorities of discriminatory charges on British and Allied subjects in defiance of the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles is engaging the serious attention of His Majesty's Government, who are in conversation with their Allies thereon.

House Of Commons (Women Visitors)

59.

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether, in view of the proportion of women electors now on the register and of the interest they take in political affairs, he is aware of the inadequate arrangements for the convenience of lady visitors to this House; and whether he will see that a separate room is placed at their disposal corresponding with the arrangements for men visitors?

I should like to discuss this proposal with the hon. Member, though I doubt whether the accommodation available is sufficient to justify the adoption of his suggestion.

Rent Restrictions Act

60.

asked the First Commissioner of Works, as representing the Secretary for Scotland, if he is aware that tenants of houses in Barrhead, Renfrewshire, to whom the house factors and landlords owe considerable sums of money under the recent decision of the Law Courts, are receiving from the factors notices threatening them with eviction if they do not continue to pay the increased rentals which have been declared to be illegal, and informing the tenants that the Government has promised to introduce legislation to annul the decision of the House of Lords; and what steps he is prepared to take to restrain the house factors and landlords from this intimidating course of action?

My Noble Friend has not received any representations or complaints alleging action by house factors and owners of the nature suggested by the hon. Member.

As the answer does not give any information at all on the subject, and as there are hundreds of tenants in the Central Division of Glasgow who are affected by notices couched in a similar strain, may I ask whether the Prime Minister has any information on the subject?

69.

asked the Minister of Labour, as representing the Ministry of Health, if he can now make any statement of the policy of the Government with respect to the renewal or otherwise of the Rent Restrictions Act?

The interim Report of the Departmental Committee which was set up by the late Government to consider the matters referred to by my hon. Friend is at present under consideration, and pending the result of this consideration my right hon. Friend is not in a position to make any statement.

Pensions

61.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will assure the House that pensions to widows, children, totally disabled men, and others granted under the Royal Warrant of 1919, and subsequent Royal Warrants, shall not be reduced during the three years commencing April, 1923?

I am glad to inform the hon. Member that the Government have decided that the present rates of flat-rate disablement, widows' and dependants' pensions shall not be revised under Article 24A of the Royal Warrant on account of the fall in the cost of living for a further period of three years from the 1st April, 1923.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not know that widowed mothers are at present in receipt of intimation that their pensions are to be reduced from 10s. to 5s. a week? How does that square with the information which he has just given to the House?

My statement is absolutely accurate. If the hon. Member refers to the Royal Warrant he will see that that is so.

Housing

66.

asked the Minister of Labour, as representing the Ministry of Health, whether, seeing that the official returns made by local authorities in 1919, after taking a survey of their housing needs as provided by the Housing Act of 1919, over 800,000 houses were then required to remove existing overcrowding, and that only about 200,000 houses have yet been built, he will state what steps the Government proposes to take to remedy the continued existence of overcrowding?

My right hon. Friend can only say that the whole question of future housing policy is receiving his careful consideration.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether that consideration will lead to any definite conclusion before the House rises, so that, if legislation is necessary, it can be taken before the Adjournment?

I can give no answer on that point. I might suggest to my hon. Friend the possibility of putting down a question again.

Unemployment

North Eastern District

67.

asked the Minister of Labour, as representing the Ministry of Health, whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that, according to the "Ministry of Labour Gazette" for November, the percentage of unemployed in the North-Eastern district on 23rd October was 42·5 per cent, in shipbuilding and 26·7 in engineering, as compared with an average rate of unemployment for the whole of the country of 12 per cent, in insured trades; and, in view of the extra burden thrown on the ratepayers in this district on account of relief granted to able-bodied unemployed as compared with the burden borne by the rest of the country, will he consider the desirability of equalising the burden by making special grants to such necessitous industrial areas, as is already done in the Metropolitan Poor Law area and also by the Board of Education in certain necessitous school areas?

My right hon. Friend is aware of the heavy unemployment in the North-eastern district. As at present advised, however, he has no reason to suppose that the needs of the situation are not adequately met by the arrangements under which local authorities can, with his sanction, contract loans to carry them over the present difficult times. He doubts whether any equalisation on the lines of the schemes mentioned in the question would be practicable.

Will the right hon. gentleman represent to the Minister of Health that direct loans for six months, or even five years, only add to the rates; and cannot the Government come to some decision on this point with regard to necessitous areas before the House rises?

I will see that the matter is fully put before the Minister of Health.

Necessitous Areas

68.

asked the Minister of Labour the 12 chief industrial centres in which there is the greatest volume of unemployment at the present time; whether all of them come under the definition of necessitous areas; and what steps he has taken to relieve the pressure on local finances?

The centres in question are as follow:

  • Barrow-in-Furness.
  • Redruth and Cambourne.
  • Cradley Heath.
  • Sunderland.
  • Jarrow.
  • Hartlepool.
  • Ebbw Vale.
  • Middlesbrough.
  • Wednesbury.
  • Newcastle.
  • Sheffield.
  • Glasgow.
I do not know what my hon. Friend means in this connection by "the definition of necessitous areas.' The system of relieving local finances by means of loans to boards of guardians and small local authorities, where such authorities cannot finance themselves, is being continued. I may also refer to the general assistance given, and to be given, by the Government in relieving the unemployed and promoting trade.

Why is West Ham left out, considering that we had to borrow £1,000,000 since the slump in trade in order to relieve unemployment?

If the hon. Member looks at the question, he will see that the point at issue is, where is the greatest volume of unemployment.

Deputation To Prime Minister

(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the fact that—

I think if the hon. Member looks towards the Chair, and addresses the Chair, he will get better attention.

I was looking at the Prime Minister, but I will try to look at you, Sir. I wish to ask the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the fact that owing to his refusal to receive a deputation of the unemployed men now assembled in London from all parts of the country, large numbers of unemployed men have expressed their determination to join their comrades in the Metropolis; whether he is aware that the cost of maintaining the men already in London and those who may join them, falls on the ratepayers of the poorer districts, and whether he is also aware that small-pox and other diseases are prevalent' in London and that the presence of these men, whose vitality and standard of life have been severely reduced, may become a menace to tho whole country; and whether, under these circumstances, he will reconsider his decision and receive the deputation in order that the men may return to their homes at the earliest possible moment?

If the House will allow me to add to that—to save me rising again—I may say that to-day for the first time the police have commenced to arrest these men simply for walking along the street. Mr. Pickering, the clergyman who is with them, has been arrested this morning. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order."]

I can add nothing to previous statements upon this subject, except to suggest that the facts mentioned in the last part of the hon. Member's question, of which he gave me notice, seem to me to be a strong argument in favour of these poor people returning home.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assist to solve the problem which has been set up as a result of these men coming to London, by relaxing his lirmness of last week and receiving the deputation?

I wish to give notice that I will raise this question again on the Motion for Adjournment this evening.

Newspapers (Government Information)

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, "the attempt to interfere with the freedom of the Press by issuing a statement to selected newspapers as official information, at the same time requiring the source of the information to be kept secret."

The pleasure of the House having been signified, the Motion stood over, under Standing Order No. 10, until a Quarter past Eight o'C'lock this evening.