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Ireland

Volume 159: debated on Tuesday 5 December 1922

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Soldiers' Pay

27.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any money raised from British taxpayers is being used to pay the soldiers of the Provisional Government in Ireland either directly or indirectly?

Commission Of Inquiry, Cushendall

31.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Report has yet been given to the Government of the Commission of Inquiry into the events at Cushendall some months ago; and, if so, when will the Report be published?

The Report has been received, and has been placed before the Government of Northern Ireland for their consideration. I am not at present in a position to give any further information regarding the Report.

Malicious Injuries Commission

34.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether a Chairman of the Shaw Commission has yet been appointed; and is he aware of the feeling that the new Chairman should be, like his predecessor, a gentleman of the highest judicial ability and standing and himself unconnected with Ireland?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. In considering the question of a successor to Lord Shaw, I have no doubt that the two Governments will have in mind the desirability that whoever is asked to accept the appointment should be duly qualified to discharge the duties and responsibilities thereof.

35.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will say how many assessors to assist the Shaw Commission in the rehearing of pre-truce undefended awards have been appointed; by whom have these gentlemen been appointed; are they British subjects or citizens of the Free State; what qualifications is it necessary for them to possess; what is their salary: and do they sit as a sub-commission of the Shaw Commission, or do they merely endeavour to arrange with the holder of the award what sum he should accept to obtain early settlement of the amount due to him?

Twenty-seven investigators have been appointed by the Compensation (Ireland) Commission, 17 of whom lived in Ireland at the time of their appointment, the remaining 10 living in Great Britain. Thirteen of them are permanent civil servants who have been seconded for service with the Commission. All except four possess recognised professional or technical qualifications as lawyers, valuers, architects or engineers, and include representatives of the Bar, the Surveyors' Institution, the Royal Institute of Architects and the Institute of Civil Engineers. They have all had practical experience which qualifies them for the position which they hold. Their salaries are at various personal rates. Their duty is to investigate claims and to report thereon to the Commission. In a substantial number of cases they have been able to report cases as agreed with the claimant subject to confirmation by the Commission.

Is it not the fact that they appointed a Sub-Committee to make judicial inquiry, but that they did not hear evidence?

I believe it is their first duty to try and arrive at agreed facts for settlement and payment; failing that the matter goes before the Commission.

Do these assessors hear evidence from the claimants that will enable them to arrive at their decision?

36.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will inquire into the payments and recommendations for payment;, made by the Shaw Commission and the assessors assisting it in the Granard district of county Longford; whether he is aware that an hotel keeper, whose hotel was burned by forces of the Crown, was awarded by the Commission more than £25,000 of an original decree of £28,000, while in the same district assessors are endeavouring to force those who hold decrees for damage done by republican forces to accept about one-half of the original decree; and will he say by whom were the assessors in question appointed, and are they British or Irish?

The Compensation (Ireland) Commission are engaged in circumstances of great difficulty on a responsible and delicate task, and the reports which I have received afford no reason to suppose that they are performing it otherwise than in a judicial manner. Their duty, as laid down in their Warrant of Appointment, is to determine and report what compensation ought in reason and in fairness to be awarded on the merits of each case referred to them, and it would be surprising if in the execution of this duty the variation between their awards and the original decrees were constant. The statements in the second part of the question do not, therefore, seem to me to afford any justification whatever for the insinuation which they appear to convey, namely, that the Commission discriminates between classes of claimants; but if the hon. and gallant Member is dissatisfied on this point, it is of course open to him to bring the facts to my notice in greater detail. In reply to the third part, I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to my reply to his previous question.

Does the hon. Gentleman admit the facts there put as to the money awarded?

But does the hon. Gentleman admit the facts? If so, will he say what Minister it was that permitted destruction of property valued at £25,000 for which we have to pay?

I will look into the matter. If hon. Members can bring me further facts I shall be glad to look into them.

Will the hon. Gentleman agree to give the victims of the Silvertown explosion similar opportunities?

54.

asked the Prime Minister whether a final Report was received from Lord Shaw, regarding compensation for malicious injuries in Ireland, before his resignation of the chairmanship of the Commission; and, if so, whether it will be laid upon the Table?

I have been asked to answer this question. The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. In reply to the second part, I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the last part of the reply which I gave on 27th November to a question addressed to me by the hon. and gallant Member for Finchley (Colonel Newman).

Did Lord Shaw give any reasons for his resignation? Is the House not entitled to know his reasons for resignation, and what were his recommendations?

Is it not the desire of Lord Shaw's Commission to have this Report published?

I am not aware of the latter fact, but I think that in view of Lord Shaw's services on this Commission it would be rather hard to ask him, unless he wishes to do so, to make a statement as to why he resigned.

Constabulary Force Fund (Relief Branch)

39.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the actuarial Report on the Constabulary Force Fund (Relief Branch), which was promised and ordered by the late Chief Secretary for Ireland as long ago as May last, is now completed; and whether he will direct that a copy of such Report shall be deposited in the Library of the House?

Yes, Sir. I have now received the Government Actuary's Report, a copy of which I propose to place in the Library for use by hon. Members. In view of the terms of that Report it is proposed in the interests of subscribers to allow the fund to work itself out, and not to take any steps at the present time to wind it up.

Manchester Regiment (Band Boy Shot)

40.

asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any information as to Band-boy J. Cooper, of the 1st battalion of the Manchester Regiment, who was kidnapped in Southern Ireland some months ago and has since been reported as an absentee; and what action the British Government have taken to ascertain the fate of this boy serving in a British regiment?

I regret to state that the inquiries which have been made into this case leave no room for doubt that this youth was shot by members of the Irish Republican Army a few days before the conclusion of the Truce on 11th July, 1921.

What about the murders in Northern Ireland: there have been hundreds of them?

Public Servants (Pensions And Compensation)

62.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will, at the earliest convenient opportunity, embody in a Statute the verbal guarantee given by the former Leader of the House on 19th December, 1921, and repeated by the former Colonial Secretary on 13th March, 1922, that His Majesty's Government will be the guarantor of the pensions or compensation to be granted to public servants under Article 10 of the Treaty?

As I have already stated, provision is made under statutory arrangements for the payment to Irish public servants of compensation by the Free State in accordance with Article 10 of the Treaty. I do not consider that any further legislation is necessary or desirable at the present time for the purpose suggested.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give reasons why the situation should not be regularised by having a statutory guarantee instead of a verbal one as at present?

That matter was discussed during the- passage of the Bill last week, and I am afraid if my hon. and learned Friend was not satisfied with what took place, then I cannot help him.

If I put down a question, will the right hon. Gentleman give reasons for the decision?

Slavery, Tanganyika (Abolition Ordinance)

32.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether there have been any claims for compensation made as a result of the recent ordinance abolishing slavery in Tanganyika; and has he considered the possibility of applying a similar ordinance to Zanzibar, so that there may finally be no more involuntary servitude under the British flag?

No claims for compensation consequent on the enactment of the Tangansika Territory Involuntary Servitude (Abolition) Ordinance have been reported. The legal status of slavery was abolished in Zanzibar and Pemba by Decrees of the 7th April, 1897, and the 9th June. 1909.

Police Pensions

44.

asked the Secretary of State for the Homo Department if he is aware that there is grave dissatisfaction amongst the retired police constables in this country owing to the inadequate provisions of the Pensions Increase Act, 1920, and the Pensions Act, 1921; that it is suggested in many quarters that the provision of granting pensions to widows of pensioners retiring after 1018 should be extended to all who were, or may become, widows of pensioners at the time of the inauguration: that it is felt that pensions should be more equalised, and that revision should be extended to include pre-War pensioners; and what action he is prepared to take to improve the conditions at present obtaining?

I am aware that these suggestions have been put forward. They raise questions which cannot be decided with regard to police pensions alone, and to give effect to them would require legislation of which I regret I can hold out no prospect.

Is the hon. Gentleman looking into this question at all, and can he promise a little more sympathy than his predecessor to these old police pensioners?

That is a question that is familiar to almost everybody. I think everybody would be glad if something could be done. It is not a question of sympathy, but of money.

In view of the admitted dissatisfaction in all the police forces, would the hon. Gentleman now consider it an opportune time to reappoint the Desborough Committee, at whose disposal most of the information is, the members of which are easily accessible, can be got together at a moment's notice, and will be glad to help him further?

I cannot quite admit the general dissatisfaction to which my hon. Friend refers, and I am not sure whether it would be practicable to re-appoint the Desborough Committee. I will consider whether it is.

Members Of Parliament (Swearing-In)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the expenditure of Parliamentary time involved in the swearing-in of Members after a General Election, he will consider, in the interests of both public economy and Members' time, the possibility of making the necessary alterations; before the next General Election whereby the successful candidates at the polls might in each case take the oath of allegiance before their returning officers?

I do not think that the hon. Member's proposal is desirable or practicable. The arrangements made for the swearing-in of Members this time worked admirably, I understand, and enabled Members to be sworn in easily during the period of two afternoon sittings and with the minimum of inconvenience to Members themselves.