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Unemployment

Volume 161: debated on Wednesday 7 March 1923

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Industrial Disputes

43.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has yet received any Report from the Committee appointed by his predecessor to consider what steps could be taken to remove the disability at present placed upon the innocent victims of an industrial dispute from receiving unemployment benefit to which they have duly contributed when thrown out of work on account of a dispute to which they are in no way parties?

The Committee referred to by the hon. Member has not yet submitted a Report.

Will the right hon. Gentleman, in view of the great delay that has taken place, table an Amendment himself that might be embodied in the Bill to meet this injustice? Sir M. BARLOW: I cannot undertake to do that. The Committee was appointed because the matter is one of great difficulty, and the mere fact that there has been considerable delay in presenting the Report is, I think, indicative of the nature of the position.

Statistics

54.

asked the Minister of Labour the total numbers of unemployed on 1st January, 1921, 1st July, 1921, 1st December, 1922, and 1st March, 1923?

The numbers of persons on the Live Registers of Employment Exchanges in Great Britain at the dates nearest to those mentioned were:

1st January, 1921701,179
1st July, 19212,040,278
4th December, 19221,389,894
26th February, 19231,328,000
I have no means of stating the total number unemployed at those dates.

Cannot something be learned from these figures, particularly the figure for July, 1921, by some hon. Members opposite?

Meiros Collieries, Llanharran?(D Adams)

55.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that David Adams, a miner, formerly employed at the Meiros Collieries, Llanharran, Glamorgan, has been discharged on the allegation of filling dirty coal; that he has since been refused his unemployment benefits by the Ministry of Labour on the ex-parte statement of the colliery company; whether he will have inquiries made into this case; whether it is the practice of the Ministry of Labour to accept the ex-parte statements of colliery companies in such cases; and will he issue instructions that no miner is to be deprived of his unemployment benefits on such charges without being given an opportunity to disprove the said charges?

I am making inquiry as to whether the Exchange in this case followed the usual practice, which is to supply the applicant with a copy of any statement by his last employer which may lead to refusal of benefit. I may mention that a statement from David Adams was put before the Insurance Officer, together with the employer's statement, and he also stated his case in person before the Court of Referees, which upheld the disallowance of benefit.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reason given, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this question on the first opportunity on the Motion for the Adjournment of the House.

Road Widening, Cowbridge

58.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, in connection with a local public works relief scheme for road widening being carried out by the Cowbridge Rural District Council, Glamorgan, part of the work of widening Boverton Bridge under this scheme is being carried out by a local farmer, who employs men and horses otherwise fully employed on his farm, when there are a number of unemployed men in the locality and haulage contractors in the locality who are unemployed or only partially employed; is he aware that farmers and farm workers are not insured under the Unemployment Acts; and will he state whether any con- ditions are made in schemes which were sanctioned by Parliament that work shall be found for the unemployed?

I am informed that the contractors executing the scheme on behalf of the local authority have employed a local farmer to carry out a small amount of cartage. This work employs one or two men only, and is a very small portion of the whole scheme, which has provided employment for as many as 60 men.

Is it not the fact that the right hon. Gentleman's own policy is to provide work by these schemes for the unemployed, and that these people have work other than this to do, while unemployed people in the locality have nothing to do?

Benefit And Wages

59.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will be prepared to consider, or has considered, a scheme of unemployment relief whereby on every contract or order of the value of £5,000 or over the placer of the contract be credited with half the weekly payment which would otherwise have been paid in full to each unemployed worker, had he not been specifically engaged in connection with such contract, it being made a condition, if necessary, that unemployed men be taken on as far as possible in connection with such work?

I have not seen any scheme precisely on the lines indicated. The recently published Report of the Cabinet Committee—of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy—considered the general question of using unemployment benefit in aid of wages, and points out the grave objections to any such arrangement and I am afraid that similar objections would apply to the proposal mentioned by the hon. Member.

76.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a youth of 17½ years of age applied for benefit at the Rutherglen Employment Exchange last week, and gave as his reasons that the wage paid him by Weir's of Cathcart, as a machineman, was 11s. 6d. for 47 hours, with is deducted for insurance and 1s. 6d. for car fares; and whether, since these wages are less than unemployment benefit, he will see that benefit is paid to such cases meantime?

I am making inquiries and will communicate the result to the hon. Member. I may point out, however, that the weekly rate of benefit payable to a boy of 17½ years is 7s. 6d.

While the right hon. Gentleman is making inquiries, will he ask the Noble Lord whether this wage of 11s. 6d. to a young man taking three meals a day is in keeping with his idea of relativity and starvation?

81.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give instructions that, where unemployment benefit has been refused on the ground that the applicant has not produced evidence of search for work, the applicant shall be entitled to a re-hearing to enable him to produce any further evidence?

Refusals of benefit on this ground are invariably the result of a recommendation by the local employment committee. If applicants have any further evidence to bring forward, the committees, so far as I am aware, are always ready to grant. a re-hearing.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what method is adopted to notify the applicant when his case is being heard that it is necessary for him to produce such evidence?

83.

asked the Minister of Labour the. number of single men who have applied for unemployment benefit, and the number of claims disallowed since 1st July, 1922?

The records kept do not show separately the number of single men who have applied for unemployment benefit since July, 1922, nor the number of such claims which have been disallowed.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the dissatisfaction that arises through disallowing benefit to these men, and will he make. exhaustive inquiries?

I am afraid that every applicant whose application is refused is probably dissatisfied.

China-Clay Workers

61.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can give the number of china-clay workers registered as totally unemployed on 1st November, 1922, and 1st March, 1923; and, if so, what are the figures?

The numbers of china-clay workers registered at Employment Exchanges as unemployed at the nearest dates available are 254 at 11th November, 1922, and 140 at 5th February, 1923.

Reconstruction Work (France And Belgium)

69.

asked the Minister of Labour whether any suggestions have been made to him with regard to the employment of British workers on reconstruction work in the devastated area of France or Belgium; and, if so, whether he has arrived at any decision in the matter?

I have just received the report of an inquiry made into this question, and hope to be able shortly to reach a decision on the matter.

Relief Works, Glasgow (Wages)

73.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that, while the number of men employed on relief work by the Glasgow Corporation has increased since 23rd December from 3,594 to 3,614 on 10th February, the anomalous situation arises that the number of those in receipt of the full standard rate of wages has decreased from 2,968 on 23rd December to 2,726 on 10th February, and the number of those in receipt of 75 per cent. of the standard rate has increased from 626 to 888 on the above dates, respectively; and, in view of this apparent use of the 75 per cent. regulation for the chief purpose of evading the payment of the full standard rate to those who have qualified for it, will he consider the advisability of entirely withdrawing that Regulation?

I have no information to show how many of the men employed on relief works by the Glasgow Corporation are in receipt of the standard rate of wages, but I do not think that the figures quoted by the hon. Member necessarily indicate that men qualified to receive the full rate are not, in fact, receiving it. I may say that the majority of men employed are understood to be on works for which no State assistance is being received, and their wages are accordingly not governed by the Government Regulation on the matter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it is quite common where they are engaged in relief work in Glasgow that, having concluded the six months' probationary period, which entitles them to full rate, they are discharged and new men taken on?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that men engaged on these schemes are doing precisely the same class of work, and is he not of the opinion that they ought to be paid the same rate?

With regard to the first supplementary, if any facts are put before me, I will look into them.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the Glasgow Corporation themselves are in sympathy with the proposal to pay the same rate to these men?

Employment Exchange (Horbury)

79.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will reconsider the decision to close the Employment Exchange at Horbury, near Wakefield, on 6th March next; whether he is aware that the unemployment figures are going up in that district, and that a paper works employing 200 persons is closing down until June next; and, if he cannot agree to continue the Exchange, will he allow a clerk to attend at Horbury on certain mornings in the week so that unemployed persons may be able to register without having to walk miles daily to either Wakefield or Osset?

The Horbury Branch Employment Office will not be closed before 31st March, and the question whether it should be kept open after that date is still under consideration. I may add that Horbury is only two miles from Ossett and three from Wakefield where Employment Exchange facilities already exist, and signatures would only be required on alternate days from applicants coming from Roxbury.

Benefit Disallowed

80.

asked the Minister of Labour why benefit is not being paid to Neil Gillies, 6, Eglington Lane, at the Glasgow South Side Exchange for the past nine weeks; and, if the reason is alleged fraud, why the man has not been prosecuted before now or, on the other hand, paid benefit?

The circumstances of this claim have been under investigation. The insurance officer has now disallowed the claim. The claimant has the usual right of appeal to a Court of Referees.

Tin Miners, Cornwall

85.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of tin miners and tin streamers who are now registered as unemployed at Employment Exchanges in Cornwall, and the average weekly payment of Unemployment Benefit paid to these men?

At the beginning of February the number of tin miners and tin streamers registered as unemployed at Employment Exchanges in Cornwall was 1,834. Assuming that these workpeople drew the same average per head as unemployed workpeople generally, the weekly amount drawn by them was, approximately, £1,250.

Loans (Boards Of Guardians)

87.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department, as representing the Ministry of Health, whether, in view of the prolonged period of unemployment and consequent. heavy burdens thrown on the local rates by out-relief charges, he will considerably extend the period for which he has authorised loans to be raised by hoards of guardians and, in those cases where money has been lent by the Public Works Loans Commissioners, will he make representations so that the rate of Interest charged is not more than the cost, so that the taxpayer does not make a profit at the expense of the ratepayer?

The maxi- mum period for which my right hon. Friend (Sir A. Griffith-Boscawen) had power to sanction loans in respect of current expenses in ten years. The circumstances of every application are carefully considered with a view to fixing an appropriate period within that maximum. The interest charged is the prevailing market rate for loans of similar currency.

Has not the time come when these necessitous areas should get a lower rate of interest on these special loans?

If the hon. Member reads the answer, he will see that "my right hon. Friend," who had power to sanction loans, was the right hon. Gentleman the late Member for Taunton.

Relief Works (Sunderland)

98.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department, as representing the Ministry of Health, whether he is aware that on the Sunderland barrack site relief works, which is regarded as coming within the category of constructional engineering work, the workmen have had their wages reduced in conformity with a reduction in the wages of the road men employed by the local authority; and whether, since the regulations governing the payment of wages on relief work provide that the percentage rate must be based upon the lowest wages paid to the employés of (he local authority concerned, he will make representations to the Sunderland Council on this matter?

I do not think there is any ground for intervention in this case. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the conditions laid down by the Unemployment Grants Committee as regards wages.

Thatcham Board And Paper Mills

44.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the Thateham Board and Paper Mills, Limited, are working their employés on 12-hour shifts; and whether, in view of the fact that the Government advanced £100,000 for the building of the mill under a development scheme and that unemployment is so severe, he will bring pressure to bear on this company to revert to the 8-hour shift formerly in operation?

So far as I am aware, no assistance has been given under the Trade Facilities Act to the Thatcham Board and Paper Mills, Limited. I do not know under what circumstances the 12-hour shift is being worked. I am sure that employers generally recognise the importance of ensuring the maximum amount of employment, and I am calling this firm's attention to the hon. Member's question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a guarantee was given to this firm for the building of these mills, and does not that imply some consideration on the part of the Government Department?

I have answered that. I have said that I believe the position to be that the guarantee was not given to this particular mill.

Will the right hon. Gentleman, in making inquiries, bear in mind that all the trade unions concerned with the class of labour referred to have a firm agreement for a 48-hour week?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the relations between the management and the employés have always been of a cordial nature, and will he see that the extension of these works awl factory is not hindered in any way, in view of the fact that when they are completed they will give employment to nearly 1,000 men and women, to the great advantage of the trade and commerce of the country?

Royal Air Force

48.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will undertake that no disintegration of the Air Service shall be sanctioned until the House of Commons has approved of the same by a direct vote?

I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the answer which I gave to him on Monday last in reply to a supplementary question on this subject.

Does not the Prime Minister realise the importance of making no vital change, such as this is, in the administration of the Air Service, without getting the direct assent of the House of Commons?

Yes, Sir. I feel that it is a subject on which the House of Commons ought to have an opportunity of expressing its opinion; but there is just the possibility that the Committee may report when the House is not sitting, and I do not wish to be under an obligation to present it to the House of Commons.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the naval demand only affects 5 per cent. of the Air Force, and can he break down the dog-in-the-manger attitude of the Air Force?

National Expenditure

51.

asked the Prime Minister, in view of the fact that this House has in effect no control whatsoever over expenditure, whether he will set up a Royal Commission to explore the possibilities of introducing other and more satisfactory measures whereby this House would have a certain amount of control over all national expenditure?

I do not agree that the House has no effective control over expenditure, and I do not think any useful result would follow from the appointment of a Royal Commission.

Parliamentary Elections (Propoiitional Representation)

53.

asked the Prime Minister if he has considered that the successful candidate in the recent election at Mitcham obtained only 38 per cent. of the total votes polled, whereas other candidates secured 62 per cent. of the votes; and whether he will introduce a scheme of proportional representation, so as to prevent candidates who poll only a minority of the votes from being elected to this House at the next General Election?

No, Sir. I am not prepared to adopt the hon. Member's suggestion.

Has the Prime Minister any fellow-feeling for candidates who get returned by a minority vote?

Living (Cost)

62.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can give the figures for the cost of living on 1st November, 1922, and 1st March, 1923?

The Ministry of Labour cost-of-living index number showed an increase of 80 per cent. over the pre-War level at 1st November, 1922, and of 77 per cent. at 1st February, 1923. Information relating to 1st March will be published about the 17th of this month.

Industrial Disputes (Arbitration)

63.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that we have now 12 years' experience of the, Canadian Arbitration Act, as amended in 1910, and applied to means of communication and mines; and, in view of its success in preventing strikes and lock-outs as compared with the state of affairs in Great Britain in the same period, whether the question of applying similar legislation to this country has been considered?

The working of the Canadian Industrial Disputes Investigation Act has been closely watched, but available statistics do not indicate that it has achieved that measure of success which my hon. and gallant Friend suggests. I may perhaps point out that in this country the power to hold an independent court of inquiry in appropriate cases, when the parties to a dispute are unable to adjust the difference, is already contained in the Industrial Courts Act, and I do not consider that the present powers for securing the settlement of industrial disputes require to be extended in the manner proposed.

Cabinet Trade Dispute, Tottenham

64.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has taken, or intends to take, any steps to invite the firm of Messrs. Harris Lebus, Finsbury Cabinet Works, Tottenham, to confer with the representatives of the Furnishing Trades' Association, with a view to bring to an end the present lock-out?

I understand that this firm is a member of the London Cabinet and Upholstery Trades Federation, and that under the working rules for the cabinet trade of London, agreed upon between the federation and the trade union, conciliation machinery is provided for the adjustment of disputes and the avoidance of stoppages of work. My Department has been in touch with the parties, but, as the hon. Member is no doubt aware, it is our policy not to attempt to intervene in a trade dispute unless and until existing conciliation machinery in the trade has been fully utilised.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this man has deliberately torn up an agreement of the Cabinet Makers' Association which has been in force in London for the last 20 years?