asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the fact that many ex-service men and their dependants are unable themselves to adequately present their cases before the House of Lords Appeal Tribunal, and are unable to pay the expenses of any person to do this for them, he will consider the desirability of giving the appellants the same assistance as is provided for poor persons in actions in the High Court?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Frome on the 7th December last, of which I am sending him a copy.

Will the hon. Gentleman take into account the fact that where local pensions committees out of private funds send someone to represent the appellant the appeals in those cases are much more successful than in cases where no assistance is given?

I am aware that certain bodies who select suitable cases for support get a better average of results, but those are selected cases.

Does that mean that the hon. and gallant Gentleman has closed his mind completely to pursuing the matter further?

also asked the Minister whether he has further considered the possibility of making provision for the re-hearing of appeal cases where some new circumstance has arisen or some new fact been disclosed which was not considered at the original appeal hearing?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Newport on the 15th March, of which I am sending him a copy.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has received complaints from the Handsworth and district branch of the British Legion with regard to cases in which local medical boards have contradicted the decision of the Pensions Appeal Tribunal when it has been in the applicant's favour; and whether the Pensions Appeal Tribunal can, at the time of the hearing of an appeal, assess the disability so that the Ministry of Pensions can make the award accordingly?

My attention has been called to the complaint referred to, which is, however, based on a misapprehension, as decisions of the Pensions Appeal Tribunal are invariably accepted by my Department. An Assessment Tribunal may, in confirming the finality of the award, increase or reduce it, or they may simply decide that the case is not ripe, for final decision. This does not necessarily mean that the Tribunal disagree with the rate at which the man's disablement has been assessed, and steps are being taken to make this clear in announcing decisions of this nature.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that William Wilkinson, of 51, Fell Street, Sheffield, was informed by the Pensions Appeal Tribunal, in September, 1922, that a final award should not have been made in his case; that, on his coming up for examination before the regional medical board, the same doctor on two occasions, in spite of the decision of the Appeal Tribunal, declared there was no disablement; and what steps this man can now take to receive a pension for a disablement from which the Appeal Tribunal acknowledge him to be suffering?

Three separate medical boards held between 1920 and 1922 found no remaining disablement in this case, and on the nil assessment becoming a final award the man exercised his right of appeal to the Tribunal, who set aside the finality of the award without questioning the assessment. A subsequent medical examination, however, disclosed no assessable degree of diablement, and the man is, therefore, not at present entitled to further compensation from my Department.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the Handbook of War Pensions Regulations is now ready; whether Members will be able to obtain a copy in the Vote Office; and whether Members will receive copies of all further Regulations issued in order that the handbook may be kept up to date?

The first part of the new handbook is now ready, and a supply has been sent to the Vote Office for issue to hon. Members. If hon. Members who so desire will be good enough to let me have their names, I shall be happy to arrange for copies of any additions to or amendments of the handbook to be sent direct to them.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in the case of need pensions to parents which are reduced by shares of maintenance imputed to children to such small amounts that the Ministry declines to pay them weekly, he would be prepared to direct payment to the pensioners of their due by a single annual payment?

I am reviewing the practice in regard to the particular class of case mentioned, and will give full consideration to the hon. Member's suggestion.

asked the Minister of Pensions (1) whether he will state the cost of the inquiries made during 1922 into 19,000 need pensions which resulted in the weekly rate of these pensions being reduced from 12s. 5d. to 12s. 2d.?

Pensions based on need must necessarily be reviewed from time to time in order to determine whether the award previously made continues to reflect the circumstances of the case and, if not, to increase or decrease the award accordingly. By a decision made last year the period of review was fixed at intervals of not less than 12 months and it is my desire to reduce review to a minimum. The work of review forms part of the general duties of the Regional and local staff and I regret, therefore, that it is not possible to state the cost of the particular inquiries. It is not the practice to refer for the consideration of War Pensions Committees every case in which a change in the pensioner's circumstances call for an alteration in an award. Provision has, however, been made for any pensioner who considers that the award made gives just ground for complaint to bring the case before the Committee. Any representations made to me by the Committee, after investigation, will receive full consideration.

Is there any truth in the usual statement that is made that the cost of investigation of the officials for harassing these people is higher than the actual amount of the reduction which they achieve as the result of their efforts?

If the question put down be correct, it is clear there is very little reduction effected. What has been effected is a change, under which people who were getting worse off get more and those who are better off get less. The advantage of the work seems to be rather in redistribution than in reduction.

Would the right hon. Gentleman deny that the Officials who are sent to harass these poor people cost more for investigation than they get in reductions?

That is the question which has been answered.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his officers, when inquiring into cases of need pensions and investigating the value of privileges or benefits in kind, ask the recipient whether she, or he, has any friends or relatives who occasionally give him, or her, a meal; whether, when the answer is in the affirmative, an estimate of the value of the hospitality given is included in the income of the pensioner and the amount of the pensioner reduced accordingly; and, if this is done, will he issue immediate instructions that the practice should cease?

Benefits in kind which are of a reasonably permanent nature are taken into account in assessing the means of a claimant to need pension, but casual gifts such as that described by the hon. Member are disregarded. If the hon. Member has a particular case in mind I should be glad to look into it.

Am I to understand that if one of these claimants gets a meal regularly every Sunday that is taken into account because of its regularity?

If the hon. Member will send me the particular difficulty, I will go into it, but I have given my reply to the question.

That is my difficulty, that the pensions authority takes into account a meal given weekly to one of these claimants.

If the hon. Member will send me that, I will certainly go into it.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that R. Michinson, 3/M.M./5978 received a favourable decision from the Pensions Appeal Tribunal to the effect that his complaint was aggravated by service, but has been declared ineligible for pension on the ground that he is in Section B of the 1st Class Army Reserve; and will he explain why men, who under these circumstances may be unable to follow their employment, are not entitled to compensation for their war-imposed physical infirmities while not actually serving in the Army Reserve.

I am glad to say that the technical difficulty which occurred in this case has been removed, and instructions have now been given for the appropriate compensation to be awarded.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether a man discharged from the forces more than seven years ago, and who has not claimed a pension in respect of a disability due to war service, is now barred from applying, notwith standing that his condition is now compelling him to obtain medical treatment; and, if so, will he inform the House how many such applications have been rejected?

The terms of Section 5 of the War Pensions Act, 1921, preclude the consideration of claims to disablement pension first made more than seven years after discharge. I have no record of the number of cases in which application for pension has been made after the expiration of the period allowed.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will cause to be reopened the case of John William Boland, of 98, Abbey Street, Bradford, late of the Royal Garrison Artillery. No. 154,530, who served 2¾ years with the colours in the Great War and who was demobilised on 10th January, 1920, after signing a statement that his health was sound in order to get home quickly, but who failed to report that he had previously been struck on the head by a shell fragment which caused nervous instability, later developing into temporary paralysis of the right side and of his speech, and which has now disabled him from work for the past year; and whether the refusal of the Pensions Appeal Tribunal (23rd June, 1922, reference 4/MB/13,944) to grant him a pension can now be reviewed in face of the new evidence, which is supported by his own doctor, A. F. Martin, Melrose, Heaton, Bradford, in a letter dated 30th January, 1923?

No evidence has so far been produced, and there is no record in the official papers of any wound such as is mentioned in the question. The opinion referred to of the man's doctor has not reached me, but opinions previously expressed by him received full consideration from my medical advisers and were before the tribunal which confirmed the decision of the Ministry.

Would the pensioner be permitted to raise this matter if he were prepared to give evidence in support of it, in accordance with the particulars I have put down here?

If the hon. Member will send me further particulars, I shall be glad to consider them.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that ex-Private F. W. Gardner, No. 19,228, 5th Battalion, Dorset Regiment, was wounded in the scalp on 4th October, 1917; that he was awarded a pension of 7s. 6d. per week for 70 weeks; that, on appeal to the tribunal appointed by the Lord Chancellor, this award was set aside and the tribunal found that a final award should not have been made; that, notwithstanding this decision, Gardner was subjected to further examinations and his pension stopped; and that his medical attendant certifies that he is still suffering from the effects of service; and will he give this man the benefit of any doubt that may exist and restore his pension?

The tribunal set aside the finality of the award without expressing any opinion as to the degree at which disablement had been assessed. Accordingly, the man remains eligible for further compensation if on medical examination disablement is found to a greater extent than that for which compensation has already been granted. Two medical boards held since the tribunal's decision have failed to find this, and the man is, therefore, not at present entitled to further compensation.

Is it customary to continually subject these men to examination after they have won their cases in the appeal court?

If the hon. Member will refer to an answer I have given to another question on what I admit is a complicated question, he will see that very often all these tribunals do is to set aside the finality of the award. Our object as a Ministry is to give as many final awards as possible.

asked why, in view of Article 6 of the Royal Warrant, an instruction has been issued that in the event of a man undergoing treatment and in receipt of allowances becoming the father of a child ten months or more after the commencement of treatment, no allowance shall be payable for such child?

The purpose of treatment allowances is to meet the circumstances and family obligations of the patient at the time that treatment commenced. Article 6 of the Royal Warrant has, in fact, been generously interpreted so as to permit of allowances being paid for all children alive at the commencement of treatment or born within nine months after treatment commenced (notwithstanding that such children were not pensionable), but the allowances are not properly payable in respect of children born at a later date.

Do I understand from that that a pensioner's obligations are not increased during treatment if an additional child is born?

No, the answer is as given, but the fact remains that these men receiving treatment get more generous treatment in a way than the pensioners themselves.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will accelerate a decision of the Keighley War Pensions Committee in the case of ex-private Joseph Greenwood Hartley, of the Priestman's Home for the Blind, Frizinghall, Bradford, who enlisted as John Smith, in the 1st battalion Royal Warwickshires, served 14 years in India, was discharged in 1912 with one medal, re-enlisted in December, 1914, at 42 years of age under the same name in the Royal Indian Marine, was sent to Mesopotamia in May, 1918, with the 11th Labour Corps and, after gaining four more medals, was seized with eye troubles, was demobilised in November, 1919, after returning to India, becoming there totally blind in April, 1921, was sent to Keighley Poor Law hospital in October, 1921, claimed a pension at Keighley in December, 1921 (4/MH/12,676), and has not yet apparently had his case considered?

I have been asked to answer this question. Ex-private Hartley was enrolled as a clerk in the 11th Bombay Labour Corps in May, 1918, and was discharged in November, 1919. The Government of India who have been consulted can find no record of any disability contracted by him on service and as he was accepted for the Calcutta Police in 1920 the presumption is that he was suffering from no disabality when discharged from the Labour Corps, But if particulars are furnished in support of the claim that his blindness was due to military service, the Government of India will be asked to examine them. He is not entitled to any service pension.

How is it that this man has had no reply from the tribunal to which he appealed?

That is a matter for the Ministry of Pensions. I promised to inquire into the case, and I have looked carefully into it, and can find no evidence that the man's blindness is due to military service.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the concessions recently published in the Press with respect to the seven-years' limit for widows, he will grant all widows who come under these concessions the right to appeal to the House of Lords tribunal, or will he remove the time limit entirely, as many ex-service men may, in years to come, die from disability which may be directly due to war service and their widows and children may otherwise become chargeable to the parish?

The time limit of seven years in Article 11 remains an integral part of the Royal Warrant, and cases barred by that limit do not come within the terms of Section 8 of the War Pensions Act, 1919, which confer the right of appeal on widows. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT to-day the particulars of the concessions recently made with reference to the seven-years' time limit.

asked the Minister of Pensions the number of appeals to the Appeal Tribunal by privates and noncommissioned officers; the number of appeals by commissioned officers; and the number of appeals sustained by the tribunal in each case?

The number of appeals on entitlement decided by the statutory Pensions Appeal Tribunal up to the end of last month was, officers 1,830 and other ranks 89,500, of which 900 and 23,700 respectively were allowed.

In view of the widespread dissatisfaction with the results of the Appeal Tribunal, and owing to the large percentage of cases in which the appeal is disallowed, is the Minister not prepared to set up a Committee of Inquiry into the whole matter in order that people may get justice?

No, Sir. I am not prepared to make any alteration. I cannot admit that justice is any question of the percentage in dealing with claims.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether it is the practice, in the case of disabled ex-service men certified by the Pensions Ministry Medical Referee as totally incapacitated by War service, and where the disapility has been admitted by the Ministry as due to service, to pay a lesser rate than full pension in such cases; and if so, can he give the reasons for such policy?

In cases of disability accepted by the Ministry as due to War service, pension is always awarded at the rate appropriate to the degree of disablement certified by the medical board by whom the man is examined. If, as I assume, the hon. Member has in mind claims based on deterioration, I would point out that in such cases the man is referred for examination by a medical referee, not for an assessment for pension purposes, but for a preliminary expression of opinion on the merits of the claim. If the medical referee supports the claim the man is then examined by a board whose assessment is accepted and acted upon, whether higher or lower than the estimate given by the medical referee.

Is any notice taken of the opinion of the medical referee as to the man being totally incapacitated?

Certainly, we do attend to the medical referee's opinion. In order to deal promptly with cases, we grant an allowance to carry on with The object is to enable us to deal with the claim of a man who has got worse; otherwise the man's claim would not be settled for a considerable time.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether instructions have been issued by which payment of a final weekly allowance with terminal gratuity, to a man who dies before the full amount has been paid, is stopped; why the undisbursed balance is not credited to the deceased person's estate for the benefit of the widow and orphans; and by what authority this change in administration was made?

In this matter the Ministry have followed the longstanding practice of the Service Departments in dealing with current payment of non-effective pay. That practice is governed by Article 1207 of the Pay Warrant which is incorporated in the Royal Warrant of December, 1919.

Was this change sanctioned by the House?

The change has been in force for two years. I do not know what discussion took place at the time; but there has been no recent change.

Are not the weekly allowance with the final gratuities made under these Final Awards in the nature of a lump-sum settlement, the payment being spread over a term of one to three years; and is it equitable that the representatives of a deceased man should on his death lose the balance of the final award, including in particular the final gratuity?

I see the hon. Member's point.

Does he not receive a weekly allowance for a certain number of weeks and then a terminal gratuity of £10? Does the Minister think that when an allowance has been paid instead of a lump sum spread over 52 or 70 weeks, with a terminal gratuity, that it is equitable when the man dies that the widow he leaves behind should lose the balance unpaid?

I will consider the hon. Member's point, but I can make no promise that I will make a change. If the widow can be accepted as a widow under the terms of the warrant, she will be provided for.

rose—

The hon. Member must put on the Paper any further question.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether an inquiry by specially appointed officials of the Ministry is being made into the basis of alternative pensions; whether the pensions in issue arc to be reduced irrespective of the difference in the purchasing power of money in 1914 and to-day; whether he can state the number and cost of the staff engaged for this purpose; and what saving is estimated to accrue to public funds from the reduction of alternative pensions now payable?

Awards of alternative pension are being re-investigated only where the existing evidence is clearly deficient and it is reasonably probable that further evidence is available. When an award falls to be altered the revised pre-War earnings, which form the basis of assessment of alternative pension, are increased by the addition prescribed by the Warrant (at present 60 per cent.) before calculating the pension. All necessary inquiries will be made by existing officials of the Ministry. No additional staff has been engaged.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will state the cost of maintaining the 700 ex-service men now in lunatic asylums; and what would be the additional cost of maintaining these men in private institutions?

I gather that the hon. Member refers to cases in which the mental condition is neither due to nor worsened by service, and I would remind him that my Department is not responsible for their maintenance. I understand, however, that the present average cost for maintenance of a patient in a county or borough asylum is 24s. a week.

In view of the reply given, is it not worth reconsideration to remove from these men the stigma of pauperism?

Is not the object of the policy of the Government to relieve national obligations by throwing them on to the local exchequers?

No, the object of the Government is to carry out the Act of Parliament and only to make the Ministry liable for illness or disability due to the War.

Does the reply mean that the Ministry of Pensions are getting a lower cost than the Poor Law figure?

For the particular men referred to, the Ministry is not responsible. For those for whom we are responsible, we are making special arrangements, including special treatment, the beginning of which I announced the other day.

Have the Government made any estimate, showing how much it costs to keep an individual outside an asylum?

asked the Minister of Pensions how many persons were in receipt of perpetual pensions; the total annual amount of such pensions; and the average amount received by each pensioner for the years 1913 and 1922, respectively?

The hon. Member will find the information he requires on page 45 of the Finance Accounts for 1912–13 and on page 44 of the Finance Accounts 1921–22.

Has the practice of creating perpetual pensions been discontinued, and, if not, will the hon. Gentleman use his influence with the Government not to set an example to any future Government by creating any such pensions in this Parliament?

I do not think I ought to be called upon to answer that question without notice, but I think I am right in saying that the practice of granting perpetual pensions is entirely abolished and has been abolished for a good many years.

asked the Minister of Pensions what was the number of persons receiving pensions of over £500 per annum; the total annual amount of such pensions; and the average amount received by each pensioner for the years 1913 and 1923, respectively?

I assume that the hon. Member refers to Civil Service pensions. I regret that no statistics are available as to the number of pensions falling within any particular limits, and I do not consider that the labour and expense involved in obtaining the information asked for would be justified.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he can state the number of certificated teachers, uncertificated teachers, and supplementary teachers who are at present unemployed?

I regret I do not possess the information asked for by the hon. Member.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he has any scheme to deal with the large number of teachers now unemployed; whether he will consult the Minister of Labour with a view to include them in his insurance scheme; and whether he will consider allocating some of the money made available by the voluntary acceptance by teachers of a 5 per cent. reduction of their salaries towards the cost of an insurance scheme?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and I have no information which leads me to suppose that the number of unemployed teachers is very large, though it is no doubt somewhat larger than usual. I have no reason to believe that the teaching profession generally would desire to be included within the scope of the Unemployment Insurance Act. I am not prepared to undertake the legislation that would be necessary to give effect to the suggestion contained in the last part of the question.

As the right hon. Gentleman has no scheme, will he do his best to prevent untrained uncertificated teachers being brought into the teaching profession in any scheme put forward by the London County Council or other authorities?

No. I cannot enter into that large question by way of supplementary answer. My hon. Friend knows the difficulties.

How can the right hon. Gentleman state that there is not a large number of teachers unemployed when he is not in possession of the statistics, according to his own statement; and, in view of the fact that these persons have very special qualifications, will the right hon. Gentleman endeavour in some way to utilise their services?

What I said was that I had no information which leads me to suppose that the number was very large.

On what grounds does the right hon. Gentleman base his view that there is not a large number of teachers unemployed when the available statistics are not in his possession?

It is the absence of exact statistics of the unemployed that leads me to doubt the number.

In view of the answer of the right hon. Gentleman—

The hon. Member had better put his question down.

asked the President of the Board of Education the number of elementary schools in England and Wales where overcrowding existed during the last 12 months; how many applications were made by the various education authorities to build new schools; how many were granted; and what was the average number of scholars per class in the urban and borough areas?

I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the latest figures which I possess for each part of the question, but I regret that I am unable in all cases to give figures covering the last twelve months.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many extra teachers would be employed if the maximum. number of scholars per class were reduced to 44?

I cannot tell offhand. If the hon. Member will put down a question, I will give him an answer.

asked the President of the Board of Education in how many districts since 1921 it has been necessary for the Board to call for a reduction in the staffing arrangements; and to what extent?

In November last the Board drew the attention of 69 local education authorities to the fact that, upon the returns of their staff of teachers at the end of the school year 1921–22, there appeared to be a primâ-facie probability that the staffing arrangements were excessive. Since then the Board, through His Majesty's inspectors or otherwise, have been in consultation with authorities generally upon this subject. I am not yet in a position to state the results.

asked the President of the Board of Education (1) whether he will consider the advisability of reducing the proportion of the grant paid to a local education authority which evades its responsibilities with regard to the inclusion of domestic subjects as part of the curriculum for elder girls;

asked the President of the Board of Education if his attention has been drawn to the decision of the County Council of the Lindsey Division of Lincolnshire to discontinue all instruction in physical training, woodwork, cookery, and laundry work; and what his attitude is in the matter?

Courses of Midwifery are not given in elementary schools, but I imagine that the word is a misprint for "housewifery." My attention has been drawn to the action taken by the local education authority for Lindsey. The attitude of the Board towards the general question is defined in the reply I gave on the 22nd February to the Noble Lord the Member for Hastings. I cannot commit myself to any particular course of action, but each case of the kind that arises will receive my most careful consideration.

Now that the Noble Lord the Member for Hastings (Lord E. Percy) is joining the Government, will the attitude of the Department be altered?

No; I think that, if anything, it would confirm my attitude on this matter.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will, pending the Report of the Committee he proposes to set up, take steps to reinstate the capitation grants which were paid to colleges maintained by local education authorities up to the 31st March, 1919, and in this way again treat all training colleges alike in the matter of Government grants, and make it possible for the 16 local education authorities maintaining training colleges to continue such institutions and to charge reasonable fees to the students?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he can make any further statement on the steps he proposes to take to remedy the severe burdens which have been laid on certain local education authorities in respect of the upkeep of training colleges?

I regret that I am not in a position to add anything to the reply which I gave on the 7th March to my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley (Mr. Lloyd).

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the large amount of difficulty that has arisen in this case and will he look into the matter?

I am fully aware of the difficulty, and am exploring every possibility of settlement.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to announce the appointment of a Committee?

The Committee is practically completed. I hope to be able to announce the names in a day or two. I am glad to say that Lord Burnham has accepted the Chairmanship.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will state what was the total amount paid last year for Government grants to denominational training colleges; whether he can state what was the total expenditure paid by local educational authorities in respect of training colleges provided by them; and where these training colleges, respectively, are situated?

As regards the first part of the question, I may refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the reply which I gave on the 15th March to the hon. Member for Wednesbury.

The total gross expenditure of local education authorities in respect of training colleges provided by them during the latest periods for which the Board have returns, was £ 483,258. Of this amount £104,712 was met from receipts other than rates and grant, leaving a total net expenditure of £378,546. I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of the training colleges provided by local education authorities, showing in each case the area in which the college is situated.

asked the President of the Board of Education (1) whether the Sheffield Local Education Authority are now considering proposals to decrease the number of manual instruction and cookery departments in Sheffield; whether he has been consulted on this matter; if so, has he sanctioned the proposed reductions;

(2) whether he is aware that the Sheffield Local Education Authority are proposing to reduce expenditure by increasing the number of teachers whose engagements are to be terminated by superannuation at the age of 60 years; whether he has been consulted on this matter; and, if so, what action has he taken in the matter?

I have been in consultation with the local education authority upon the whole matter. I understand that their original proposals have been modified and that alternative proposals of the nature indicated by the hon. Member are now under consideration; but I have not yet been informed of the authority's decision.

Has the right hon. Gentleman been consulted by the local authority, and has he indicated in any way that some reductions will receive his approval?

I have had consultation with the authority on the matter. I would rather not express an opinion, and I think that the hon. Gentleman should not press me to express an opinion, until I am in a position to come to a final decision when I shall have to express an opinion officially.

In view of the extraordinary position in necessitous areas, where children are severely handicapped, will the right hon. Gentleman expedite some assistance?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether his attention has been called to the case of James Hodgson, a postal servant, who was summoned before the Willesden Second Court, on 8th March, on account of the non-attendance of his child at school, the reason for her non- attendance being that she had been absent through illness, and the school authorities refused to readmit her, although she had a certificate from a registered medical practitioner, on the ground that her father was not willing to send her for further examination to a clinic a mile-and-a-half distant; whether he is aware that, whereas the magistrates dismissed the summons, the education authority has threatened to take the case before the High Court; and whether he will issue instructions to education authorities not to take such action in cases of this nature?

My attention has been called to this case. The enforcement of the law of school attendance rests with the local education authorities. I am not prepared to issue instructions to such authorities as to the steps which they should take in carrying out their duties in the matter, and I should certainly not feel justified in urging authorities not to seek decisions of the High Court as to the extent of their powers.

In view of the vexatious way in which these duties are exercised, is it not advisable, in the interests of economy, to interfere, so that the authority may act in a more reasonable manner?

I cannot admit the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question. Therefore, perhaps he will allow me to say that the second part does not arise.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that, in February, 1922, the Board issued the 1923 certificate syllabus stating that the certificate examination, 1923, will be held on the 26th November, 1923, and the four following days; that a large number of acting teachers have spent much time and have gone to considerable expense in preparing for this examination; and will he, in justice to these acting teachers, withdraw the Circular 1296 issued on 9th January, 1923, and allow these examinations to take place on the dates fixed?

I have already explained in the reply I gave on the 15th February last to the hon. Members for Caerphilly, Newcastle-under-Lyme, and Ilkeston the circumstances which have rendered it undesirable in the interests of the teaching profession that the Acting Teachers' Certificate Examination should be held next November, and I am not prepared to depart from that decision. As I announced last week the teachers in question will have an opportunity of entering for the examination in November, 1924.

Inasmuch as these acting teachers have been notified that this examination will take place this year, will the right hon. Gentleman let this examination take place this year and make any alteration that he wants to make in subsequent years?

No. I have already said, for reasons which I have given on more than one occasion to the House, that I think that in the interests of these persons themselves the examination should be postponed rather than that they should enter the profession and find themselves unable to get places, and I think it for the convenience of the new entrants themselves that the date should be fixed later.

Is it because there are so few unemployed that the right hon. Gentleman is postponing the examination?

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will state how many schools in Glasgow have been declared as in need of reconstruction; how many have been declared obsolete and require to be replaced by new schools; how many schools are overcrowded; and will his Department consider the advisability of making a special grant to the Glasgow education authority with a view to enabling them to provide schools which would correspond to the needs of the time?

I have been asked to reply. The Scottish Education Department have not made any classification of school buildings in Glasgow such as appears to be indicated in the first part of the question. If the hon. Member has in mind a recent Report of the Glasgow Director of Education, no representations on this point have been addressed to the Department, and my Noble Friend, from his study of the Report, would not feel justified in pro- posing the allocation to the Glasgow Education Authority for school building purposes of an additional quota of the Fund over and above that normally accruing to them.

Will the right hon. Gentleman have inquiry made into the state of affairs, with a view to handing on the information to us who are dealing with the problem?

Inquiry has been made by the education authority. They have forwarded their observations on the point to the central department. It is for the local authority, if they desire to call attention to the matter, to send in representations to the department concerned.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that one-fourth of the schools of Glasgow, owing to noise, and defective light and ventilation, are places in which education cannot be carried on efficiently? As a member of the committee before I came here, I know.

The hon. Member had better give that information when we come to the Scottish Estimates.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that at a recent inspection of schools made by the inspectors of the Education Department in the area of the Rhondda education authority the inspectors took exception to the number of class teachers employed in certain schools on the alleged ground that the number so employed was excessive; and whether, to avoid interference with the functions of the local education authority as the body responsible for the staffing of the school, and having regard to the number of class teachers at present unemployed, he will give instructions to the inspectors to desist from the line of conduct referred to?

I do not know to what occasion the hon. Member is referring; but in any case I cannot accept the suggestion contained in the second part of the question. It is an important part of the duties of His Majesty's inspectors to call attention to cases of excessive staffing which, under the present system of grants, may place an undue burden on money provided out of taxes as well as that provided out of rates.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that pre-1919 retired teachers in Scotland are presenting a memorial to the Treasury and the Scottish Education Department pleading that the 1919 superannuation scheme should be amended to secure to them a pension equal to half salary for 40 years' service, and corresponding ratio for shorter periods, on the standard of the minimum national scales; that the present total average pension of Scottish teachers retiring before 1919 is only £87, compared with an average of £160 for teachers retiring since that date; that the number of pre-1919 retired teachers surviving has fallen from 1,350 at 31st March, 1919, to between 750 and 800 at 31st March, 1922; and whether, in view of the comparatively small number involved and the hardship to men and women who never enjoyed the improved salaries he will favourably consider this petition or receive a small deputation of Scottish Members on the subject?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply. The memorial referred to has not yet been received in the Scottish Education Department, nor, I understand, at the Treasury. The figures based on official records differ considerably in some particulars from those quoted by the hon. Member. The average pension, excluding the deferred annuity, of teachers who retired before the present superannuation scheme became effective is £ 88 6s. 11d. The average annual allowance awarded under that scheme has been £ 143 3s. 1d. The number of pre-1919 pensioners at 31st March, 1919, was 1,347, and at 31st March, 1922, 1,117. Apart from the provisions of the Pensions (Increase) Act, any addition to the pensions of retired teachers in Scotland could only be at the expense of the Education (Scotland) Fund, and my Noble Friend does not feel he would be justified in proposing an amendment of the superannuation scheme which would impose a further charge on that fund.

Would my hon. and gallant Friend reply to the last part of the question as to whether he would receive some of the Scottish Members, who would put quite a different complexion on the reply he has just given?

As the question was originally addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I was not sure whether my hon. Friend desired to meet the Secretary for Scotland, but if Scottish Members do desire to meet the Secretary, I have no doubt my Noble Friend will take any opportunity that may arise of meeting them.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the large increase, both in the volume and importance of the business brought before the House of Commons, and the impossibility under present conditions of devoting to such business the attention it merits, he will give early consideration to the advisability of so re-arranging the hours of the Sittings of the House and, if necessary, the periods of vacation, as shall avoid a House mentally and physically exhausted being called upon to determine matters of vital importance?

I do not consider that the hon. Member's proposal is practicable.

Were not these hours arranged for the convenience of the legal profession, and is it not a fact that there are fewer lawyers in the House now than ever before?

I do not think it is for the convenience of the legal profession so much as for the convenience of the Government Departments.

In view of the widespread demand in this House for such a change, will the right hon. Gentleman give an opportunity to the House to discuss the proposals embodied in this question?

Is the Prime Minister not aware that Members on this side have not been accustomed to work such long hours as we are now working?

asked the Prime Minister whether the Council of Ambassadors have declared the sovereignty of Poland over Vilna and Eastern Galicia; whether the Russian Government was consulted in any way about the future of Eastern Galicia; whether any notes or protests have been received from that Government on the subject; who was the British representative on this council; whether he was acting under instructions from His Majesty's Government; whether these decisions are to be considered final; and whether this House is to be given an opportunity of accepting or rejecting these proposals?

The answers to the first, third, fifth and sixth parts of the questions are in the affirmative; to the second and seventh parts in the negative. His Majesty's Government were represented on the Ambassadors' Conference by His Majesty's Ambassador in Paris, and when he became ill by His Majesty's Minister acting for him.

By this decision have we to guarantee Polish sovereignty over Eastern Galicia, and, if so, ought not this House to be given an opportunity of hearing the arguments in the case?

It had the opportunity when ratifying the Treaty of Versailles.

The Treaty of Versailles and the guarantee Treaty were rushed through this House in one sitting, and there was no opportunity of discussing Eastern Galicia?

I think that was because the House was unanimous.

asked the Prime Minister what is the present state of the negotiations between the Allies and the Government of the United States of America on the question of the payment for the American Army of Occupation in Germany?

The negotiations are still continuing and I am not in a position to make any statement.

asked the Prime Minister whether the British Member of the Inter-Allied Commission of Military Control is satisfied that in respect of disarmament Germany is fulfilling the terms of the Treaty?

I have been asked to reply. The British representative is satisfied that the reductions in the Germany Army contemplated by the Treaty, both in respect of men and material, have been so carried cut as to constitute effective disarmament.

asked the Prime Minister what instructions will be given to the British delegates at the forthcoming meeting of the Council of the League of Nations in reference to the question of the Ruhr dispute?

No instructions have a yet been given on the subject.

Is it intended to make any use of the friendly right to raise the question that we possess?

Instructions will be given, but it is certainly unusual to mention them in this House before they have been given to our delegates.

Will the House have an opportunity of knowing the instructions before our delegate is dispatched?

In view of the question raised last time by the representative of another Power, and in view of the possibility that it may again be raised by the same Power, will the right hon. Gentleman not consider the propriety of giving definite instructions on this matter?

Oh, yes. Definite instructions will be given, but I have no reason to suppose that they will differ from the statements I have made.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to paragraph 12 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General on the Civil Services Appropriation Accounts, 1921–22, just issued, in which he states that large gifts of property belonging to the people of this country have been made to the South African Government; that the War Office transferred free of charge certain lands and buildings and other property; that boats were transferred to the Indian Government; rifles, machine guns, and ammunition, valued at £588,000, to certain Crown Colonies and Protectorates, all without charge; that the Disposal and Liquidation Commission gave a rebate of 50 per cent. to the Australian Government on the sale of plant and machinery to the value of £333,120; and why these gifts of public property, belonging to this country, were made without the full knowledge and consent of Parliament?

The issue involved in the paragraph referred to by the hon. Member can hardly be adequately dealt with by question and answer. It is under discussion with the Public Accounts Committee, and I think it would be best to await their Report.

Would it not be very much better to rule that no public property shall be handed away without the express consent of this House?

May I respectfully suggest—

This is not the time to make suggestions.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will initiate legislation requiring any combination, company, association, federation, society, or other organisation, existing for the purpose of gain or otherwise, consisting of more than 20 persons, having for its objects political propaganda and/or political ends, and not already registered under the Companies or Trades Union Acts, to be registered under the former Acts and to file annually in the appropriate Department at Somerset House the names and addresses of the officers of such organisation, a balance sheet, and a list of shareholders or subscribers to the funds?

I see no sufficent reason for imposing special obligations on associations formed for political objects.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that legislation would avoid trouble?

That has been debated more than once, and I do not think it would have that effect.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can now state the date on which the Scottish Estimates will be introduced; and whether, having regard to the many topics Members are entitled to raise on the different Votes, he is in a position to allocate more than one Parliamentary day to those Estimates?

It is hoped that all the Civil Service Estimates will be in the hands of Members by the 29th instant. As the hon. Member is aware, the question of the allocation of Supply Days is a matter of arrangement through the usual channels.

Can the right hon. Gentleman use his influence in order to secure more than one day for consideration of the Estimates affecting Scotland?

What Minister representing Scotland will be present in charge of these Estimates?

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the independence of Montenegro has been recognised by Treaties to which the Government of this country was a signatory party, that the independence of Montenegro has not been extinguished by any legal instrument to which this country has subscribed, and that the people of Montenegro have never ceased protesting against the usurpation of their sovereign rights by the Government of Serbia, and are to-day struggling in arms to maintain their rights, His Majesty's Government will bring the matter before the Council of the League of Nations in order that inquiry may be made?

The entry of Montenegro into the Jugo-Slav Union is a national and not an international question. His Majesty's Government are unable to interfere on behalf of a dissentient minority as against the freely expressed wishes of the majority in a foreign State. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

In view of the unsatisfactory character of than reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Motion for the Easter Adjournment.

Seeing that this country was one of our Allies and has been dismembered, not because of the action of its enemies, but by the action of its own Allies, will the right hon. Gentleman place all the papers relating to the dismemberment of Montenegro and its inclusion in Serbia, on the Table of the House?

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the British Government gave a pledge at any time to Montenegro?

I must have notice of that question.

asked the Prime Minister if his attention has been drawn to the statement made in the Canadian House of Commons by the Prime Minister on 1st February last that the Canadian Government had repeatedly asked His Majesty's Government for permission to lay before the Canadian Parliament the dispatches exchanged between His Majesty's late Government and the Canadian Government in regard to the Turkish crisis of last September, and that His Majesty's Government had repeatedly and emphatically indicated its wish that these dispatches should not be communicated to the Canadian Parliament; if he will state why His Majesty's Government have objected to the publication of these dispatches; and if he will now direct that they shall be laid upon the Table of this House and will waive his objection to their being laid before the Parliament of Canada?

The answer to the first part of the hon. Member's question is in the affirmative, and to the third part in the negative. As to the second and fourth parts, the Prime Minister of Canada made a general statement in the Canadian House of Commons on the 1st February as to the communications which had passed between His Majesty's Government and the Canadian Government, but it has been thought advisable, in the public interest, not to publish the text of these communications, many of which were of a secret or confidential nature.

Will these Papers be published at the same time as the Greek Papers?

Yes; when the Greek Papers are published, these Papers will also be published.

Will the right hon. Gentleman publish the Greek Papers before the Greek kalends?

asked the Prime Minister (1) whether, in view of the increasingly serious state of the agricultural industry, he can announce, before the rising of the House for the Easter Recess, any of the Government proposals for improving the state of the industry;

(2) when he will be able to announce; the proposals of the Government for granting credit facilities to farmers?

I have been asked to reply. I regret that I am unable to make any announcement before the House rises on Thursday next, but I hope to introduce an Agricultural Credit Bill as soon as possible after the Easter Recess.

Is there any difficulty in using short term credit facilities at once?

In considering the question of credits, will the Minister of Agri- culture take into account the necessity of his Department, instead of handing out credits that give profits to people from whom the farmers buy, see—

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the Air Ministry have considered the advisability of supporting the British air industry in showing exhibits at the Gothenberg Air Exhibition, Sweden; and whether he has any information as to what France is doing to support this air exhibition?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and I may say that I am anxious that British air interests may be properly represented at the Exhibition. An official committee, under the chairmanship of the Director of Civil Aviation, and including representatives of the Air Ministry, Department of Overseas Trade, the Society of British Aircraft Constructors, Limited, and the British Advisory Committee of the Exhibition, has been formed to advise me in this matter, and to co-ordinate the efforts of the British air industry in showing exhibits at the Exhibition. As regards the second part of the question, I understand that France is proposing to support the Exhibition, and is sending an exhibit on a scale fully representative of her air industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if, in connection with the proposed developments to the Croydon aerodrome, he contemplates providing housing for the persons who will be employed there when the developed aerodrome is at work; whether he is aware that the housing shortage is particularly acute in the neighborhoods of the aerodrome; and, if he does not propose to build houses as part of the necessary development of the aerodrome, how it is proposed to house the staff without causing further overcrowding in the existing houses in the neighborhoods?

I am aware that there is a considerable shortage of the cheaper houses in the district in question, and that some of the mechanics and traffic hands have to come long distances to their work. I do not think, however, that the present difficulties will be made greater by the proposed development of the aerodrome which is not likely to cause an appreciable increase in the, permanent Government establishment of personnel at Corydon, nor do I think that the Air Ministry could undertake to remedy the shortage by building houses. An improvement is only to be looked for in increased local building activities.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what progress has been made with the helicopter system of flying.

Satisfactory progress is being made with the experiments which are being conducted by the Air Ministry, and to which I assume that the hon. and gallant Member refers, and I hope that a trial will take place shortly.

Is the reward still available for any private inventor?

Yes, Sir. I am offering a reward, and I think it is included in this year's Estimate.

Is every encouragement being given to private inventors, as well as to the Royal Aircraft Factory, to produce the best machines?

Yes, the inventor now actually engaged in this work is a private mechanic.

Will steps be taken, on this question of the invention of air appliances, to prevent the disgusting outcome of investigations made during the War?

Adjectives are not allowed at Question time.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why, seeing that he has received a deputation in regard to substitution of draughts men at Farn- borough from the Ex-Service Civil Service Association, he has refused to meet a similar deputation from the Association of Engineering and Shipbuilding Draughts men whose members are directly affected by the policy of substitution?

The hon. Member is under a misapprehension if he thinks that I have received a deputation from the Association of Ex-Service Civil Servants specially on the subject of the substitution of ex-service men for non-service draughts men at the Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farm borough. I received a deputation from that association on a number of ex-service questions, including that of replacing non-service staff, both at the Air Ministry and the Outstation Establishments of the Air Ministry by ex-service men. As regards the request that I should receive a deputation from the Association of Engineering and Shipbuilding Draughts men, I regret that I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Member's question of the 14th March.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can state the position held in the Disposal Department by the person who purchased the buildings at the Georgetown munitions depot; whether an inquiry was held by the Disposal Board into the matter; if such inquiry was private; and if he proposes to furnish the House with the Report and finding of the Board?