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Oral Answers To Questions

Volume 163: debated on Wednesday 9 May 1923

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Rhineland (Expulsions)

2.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many persons have been expelled since January last from the Rhineland by the Inter-Allied Rhineland High Commission; how many of such persons were railway men; in how many cases were their wives and children also expelled; and how many of such expulsions were approved of by the British representative in the Inter-Allied Rhineland High Commission?

His Majesty's Government are not in possession of the figures and details required. None of these expulsions were approved by His Majesty's High Commissioner who, as the House is aware, has instructions to abstain from all decisions of the Inter-Allied Rhineland High Commission arising out of the Franco-Belgian independent action.

Can the Under-Secretary say whether, on any occasion, the British representative has made any protest against any particular expulsion?

Only such protest as is contained in abstaining from taking part in the proceedings.

Turkey

Troops (Concentration)

3.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Turkish troops are being concentrated on the Northern Syrian border; whether the French Government has increased its effectives in that region; and whether His Majesty's Government has been invited by the French Government to associate itself with these precautionary measures in its own zone of influence in Iraq?

There has been a movement of Turkish troops towards the Syrian frontier, but so far as is known the French Government have not increased their effectives in that region, though they have addressed remonstrances to the Turkish Government. In reply to a French suggestion that His Majesty's Government should make similar representations, the French Ambassador was informed that unless British mandatory territory was threatened such action did not seem to be required.

Have additional Turkish troops been sent recently to the Turkish frontier of Iraq?

Russia

Imprisonment (Mr Joseph Martin)

5.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has been successful in securing an explanation from the Russian Government in the case of Mr. Joseph Martin, now blind as the result of his imprisonment; and, if such explanation has not been secured, will he lay before the House copies of the correspondence between the British Government and the Russian Government so that Members may be informed as to the particulars of the case?

The only explanation offered by the Soviet Government was that Mr. Martin was arrested as a suspicious foreigner at a time when intervention in the internal affairs of the Soviet Republic was still being carried on by a number of States. I do not think that any useful purpose would be served by laying papers.

British Fishermen (Protection)

19.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he proposes to take any steps to protect Hull and other fishermen carrying on their lawful trade in the White Sea from acts of piracy?

A fishery protection vessel is now patrolling off the Murmansk Coast, and it is hoped to make arrangements by which the patrol will be continued throughout the fishing season.

Egypt

Martial Law

7.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, seeing that the Egyptian electoral law as issued enacts that registration for the coming election must take place before the 16th of this month and that this constitutes the beginning of the electoral campaign, steps will be taken that political leaders and others imprisoned and exiled by the operation of British martial law are not kept in prison or exile during this period, and that Egyptian citizens are no longer arrested and imprisoned by British martial law without charge or trial during the electoral period?

In February, 1922, Lord Allenby gave a pledge that, should circumstances arise to delay the coming into force of the Act of Indemnity, he would be prepared to suspend the application of martial law in respect of all matters affecting the free exercise of the political rights of Egyptians, in order to facilitate the holding of elections. This pledge will be duly carried out when the appropriate moment arrives, if martial law has not by that time been already abolished.

Arrests

8.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that Dr. Mahgoub Sabet, Maitre Mahmoud Bassyouni, Hassan Yessin, and others have been arrested, and are now confined without charge or trial at Al Maharik, which is a lonely and unhealthy place formerly used for the detention of desperate criminals only; and for what reason they are subjected to this treatment?

All that I know of the three persons mentioned by the hon. Member is that they, together with three other Egyptian agitators, after being arrested in Cairo, were removed to Upper Egypt on 26th February.

9.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that Sheikh Mustapha Khayyati has been, during the last eight months, arrested several times in Cairo and imprisoned without charge or trial; whether he is at this moment in prison; and on what grounds he is being so detained?

As regards the first part of the question, I am aware that Sheikh Mustapha Khayyati has twice been arrested in the course of the last eight months, but I have no information as regards the remainder of the question.

10.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that Fakry Abdul Noor Bey, a member of the Wafd, Egyptian Delegation, was arrested and imprisoned without charge or trial in August, 1922; that he was released early this year and rearrested with others of the Wafd in March; that he was kept in prison when the others were released shortly afterwards; and what is the reason for this detention of an untried man?

My only information regarding this individual is that he was arrested on 14th August, 1922, and released on 3rd February of this year. He was rearrested on 5th March, in company with five other members of the Wafd, for activities of a nature to endanger public order and security. I have no information regarding the remainder of the question, beyond that four of the above-mentioned members of the Wafd were released in April.

Is it not possible, seeing that there are British judges in Egyptian Criminal Courts, that these men should be charged and tried by those Courts in order to do away with the system of imprisoning men without trial for many months?

Of course, that is a very difficult question, and perhaps the hon. Member will put it on the Paper.

Peace Treaties

Western Thrace

11.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, having regard to the fact that the League of Nations has referred to the Council of Ambassadors Bulgaria's protest respecting the persecution of minorities in Western Thrace, His Majesty's Government agrees with the statement of the League of Nations to the effect that Western Thrace is under the protection of the Allied Powers; and, if so, what instructions His Majesty's Government is prepared to give to its representative on the Council of Ambassadors with a view to promoting the maintenance of order in Western Thrace?

It is true that under the Treaty of Neuilly Western Thrace was transferred to the Allied and Associated Powers. Under the subsequent Treaty of 10th August, 1920, the territory was, however, assigned by the Powers to Greece, and the Greek authorities have since that date administered the territory with the full approval of the Powers. This latter Treaty has not yet been ratified, but His Majesty's Government do not consider that the present juridical status of Western Thrace imposes upon them an effectual responsibility for the administration of that territory. The Greek Government are understood to be doing their best to maintain order in the country and to restrict the activities of the Bulgarian bands on the northern frontier. They have given an assurance that the deportations which have been necessitated by the present situation will not be permanent and that the deportees will be repatriated. His Majesty's representative on the Ambassadors' Conference will therefore be instructed to confine his efforts to taking note of the assurances of the Greek Government, and to pointing out the desirability of taking early action to conform the de jure to the de facto status of the country.

Have we any representatives or consuls in Western Thrace who can see things for themselves and report?

The hon. and gallant Member must give me notice of that question and then I can give him the names of our representatives there. I have already made one statement in answer to a similar question.

I cannot say. This is one of the questions coming before the Lausanne Conference, and I cannot give a reply in answer to a supplementary question.

United States Army Of Occupation

13.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if the American claim for the occupied Army has been admitted; and, if so, how do the Allies purpose meeting the claim?

The question is still under discussion.

Is this not due to German reparations and to the maintenance of Continental armies of occupation?

Reparations (German Note)

49.

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government has yet taken any action with regard to the recent German Note on reparations; whether any reply has been made to the German Government and what is its nature; and when the position is going to be explained to the House of Commons?

I can add nothing at present to the statement which I made yesterday on this subject.

Liquor Regulations (United States)

12.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware of the terms of the decision of the Supreme Court of Washington in the case of the Cunard Steamship Company versus Andrew Mellon and others on the subject of the admission of British steamships carrying intoxicating liquor on board into ports of the United States; whether any communications on this subject have been received from the United States; and, if so, whether he can make any statement on the matter?

15.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether our Ambassador in Washington has been instructed to protest against the application of the prohibition rule to British ships entering American territorial waters; and whether he has any official information that America still intends to enforce its prohibition rule against foreign ships, seeing that only last week the State of New York has repealed prohibition?

The full terms of the Supreme Court's decision have not yet been received. The Secretary of State has been notified by the United States Chargé d'Affaires that new regulations, based on the decision, are being prepared and will be enforced on all shipping, both foreign and domestic, on and after the 10th June. His Majesty's Ambassador at Washington, acting upon instructions, represented some months ago to the United States Government, in the most friendly way, the inconvenience and the, possibly, embarrassing precedent which might result from interference with the traditional freedom of international marine commerce through the imposition of domestic legislation on foreign shipping within territorial waters in cases where the legislation in question is not generally accepted by the outside world. It is not possible to define the attitude of His Majesty's Government more explicitly until further information is available.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman draw the attention of the United States Government to the Bill which is down for introduction to-day, and which will probably have to be passed if this is persisted in?

Will the hon. Member rise in his place, and oppose such a ridiculous Measure of reprisal?

Inter-Allied Debts

14.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that loans have recently been made between France and Poland, and France and Serbia, for 400,000,000 francs and 300,000,000 francs, respectively; and, in view of our own heavy financial burdens, whether he will consider the advisability of asking for some repayment of the money owing to this country?

I have nothing to add to the answers given respectively by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 7th March in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Ilford, and by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Department of Overseas Trade on 2nd May in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Dundee.

Royal Navy

Naval Bases (Far East)

16.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what firm of consulting engineers is to be employed in connection with the proposed new naval base at Singapore; and what remuneration will be paid to the firm for its services?

It is intended to obtain the opinion of one or more eminent civil engineers on the scheme, but definite arrangements have not yet been made.

17.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what the total cost to date of the Hong Kong Naval Base has been; what its annually recurrent expenditure on Navy Account is to-day; and what military establishment is necessary for its protection and the cost of it per annum?

The total cost to date of the capital expenditure incurred on works, buildings and machinery out of Navy Votes and the Naval Works Acts during the past 81 years is £2,636,367. The annual recurrent expenditure is about £280,000. In regard to the last part of the question, particulars of the military garrison are given on page 28 of the Army Estimates. The estimated cost on the Army Vote for the year 1923–24, including non-effective charges, is £740,000, towards which a contribution estimated at £443,000 will be received from the Colonial Government. The hon. Member will understand that the military garrison is necessary for the protection of the colony, which would require protection whether there was a naval base there or not.

21.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if, seeing that the new naval base is being constructed at Hong Kong, it is His Majesty's Government's intention in new ship construction to allow sufficient bunker space to enable warships to steam within a 3,500-mile radius?

I do not understand my hon. Friend's reference in the first part of the question to a new naval base. The question of endurance is being fully taken into consideration in the designs of our new ships, having due regard to the positions of our bases.

Hms "Natal" (Salvage Operations)

20.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether it is proposed to begin salvage operations on the "Natal"; and, if not, will he consider the advisability of beginning them at once, and so relieve unemployment at Invergordon and Cromarty and at the same time remove the reminder of a disaster which caused so much grief to the community?

The "Natal" was sold in June, 1920, to a company, which has, however, failed so far to carry out any operations for the disposal of the wreck. The Admiralty would be prepared to consider any offer to purchase and salve the wreck, and steps will be taken to invite further tenders, should the existing contract be cancelled.

Torpedoes

22.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will give figures showing how many torpedoes were built for the Navy in the years 1920, 1921, and 1922; and will he give the cost of building one torpedo?

It would not be in the public interest to give the numbers asked for. The cost of making a torpedo is approximately £2,000.

Recruiting Officers

23.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if the chief and petty officers now engaged upon recruiting duties have any opportunity of becoming warrant officers in a similar manner to the Army non-commissioned officers?

Naval recruiters are pensioners, and are, therefore, not eligible for promotion to warrant rank.

Dover Patrol Flotillas

24.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is aware that, in answer to a question, 16th August, 1916, regarding recognition of the arduous duties and admirable work of the Dover patrol flotillas, the Financial Secretary promised that this arduous service would be fully considered with a view to suitable recognition; and if he can say when such recognition will be granted?

As the reply is somewhat long, I will, with my hon. and gallant Friend's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The reply is as follows:

The names of officers and men of the Dover Patrol figure largely in the lists of honours published after the 16th August, 1916, and the Admiralty see no reason for supposing that a fair measure of recognition has not been accorded them. I might mention, in particular, the "London Gazettes" of the 10th May, 1917, the 23rd May, 1917, the 16th March, 1918, the 23rd July, 1918, the 28th August, 1918, the 20th September, 1918, the 19th February, 1919, and the 20th February, 1919, in which a number of these names appear.

Unemployment

Relief Pay, Bermondsey (May Day)

27.

asked the Minister of Labour if his attention has been called to the action of the Bermondsey Borough Council paying the men employed on relief works full wages to attend the May Day meetings; and if this action has been sanctioned by his Department?

I have been asked to reply to this question. The action of the borough council to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers was not sanctioned by my Department, and no grant will be made out of Exchequer moneys towards the expenditure in question.

Women

32.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can make any further statement as to the intentions of the Government in reference to the alleviation of the hardships of unemployed women?

Unemployed women, in so far as they are in an insured occupation, are, of course, eligible for unemployment benefit. In addition, certain training schemes have been provided with the assistance of the Government. I regret that it is very difficult to find practicable means of assisting unemployed women, but I would remind the hon. and gallant Member that there are still large numbers of domestic vacancies unfilled which are available for unemployed women.

Is there any system of Government training for unemployed women for domestic service?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a large class of women who are not suitable for domestic service, either by training or experience, and what is he doing for them?

Iron-Ore Miners (Cleator Moor)

40.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the policy being pursued by the manager of the Cleator Moor Employment Exchange in stopping the unemployment benefit from iron-ore miners who have passed middle age if they refuse to take work as labourers, and that the nature of the work offered requires young active men, whilst the wages offered are 4s. 6d. per day less than an iron-ore miner would earn at his ordinary work; and if he will see that benefit is not withheld on such grounds?

I am making inquiries locally and will communicate the result to the hon. Member.

Is the right hon Gentleman aware that there are at least a score of new men in the grade who are seeking work day and night, and cannot obtain it?

If the hon. Member will send me details in writing, so that I can examine them, I will endeavour to give him the information.

Benefit

50.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons receiving unemployment benefit during the week ending 28th April, and the approximate amount paid for such benefit?

The approximate number of persons to whom unemployment benefit was paid during the week ended 28th April was 920,000 and the amount paid was £694,000.

Necessitous Areas

68.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been drawn to the fact that, in 20 of the unions where unemployment is greatest, the amount expended in the relief of those ordinarily employed increased from £63,000 for the week ending 7th April to over £98,000 for 21st April; and whether, in view of this heavy additional burden to local rates, he will give sympathetic consideration to the formula for giving assistance to such districts recently put before him by the representatives of necessitous areas?

The answer to the first question is in the affirmative. I have not yet had an opportunity of considering the revised scheme to which the hon. Member refers, but it is under immediate examination in my Department, and I hope shortly to be in a position to look into it myself.

Ex-Service Men

Building Trades (Training)

25.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the need of obtaining additional skilled men in the building trade, and having regard to the numbers of ex-service men out of employment, he will consider as to re-starting the Ministry's abandoned scheme for training ex-service men as bricklayers and plasterers, and in other skilled branches of the building trade, so as to facilitate the building of houses and increasing general employment in the unskilled branches of the trade?

There is no present intention, having regard to the existing circumstances, of re-starting the scheme referred to. I should like, however, to point out that the scheme for the training of disabled ex-service men in the building trade is still in operation. Under this scheme 4,417 disabled ex-service men have been trained for skilled trades and 1,197 are in training. About 1,000 men have finished their training at the Government instructional factories and centres, and are awaiting improverships.

Would the right hon. Gentleman explain what he means by saying that there is no intention, having regard to existing circumstances, of re-starting this scheme? Is he not aware that, so far from unemployment being caused by the training of skilled men, it would be quite the contrary, and that more employment would be given?

As I have already indicated, I am endeavouring at the moment to secure positions for 1,000 men who have been trained, and I find, I regret to say, great difficulty in doing so.

Will the right hon. Gentleman fully explain the difficulties he has met with, so that we can assist him?

I have a large number of trained canvassers going about the country, but I find that positions for improverships are not available.

33.

asked the Minister of Labour why the Ministry's scheme for the special training of ex-service men for work in the building trade was rendered inoperative, thereby causing the loss to the nation of the money which had been spent on these trainees?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the question asked on this subject by the hon. Member for South Kensington (Sir W. Davison) on 2nd May, a copy of which I am sending to him.

Is it the case that most of the difficulties experienced in placing these trainees is found to be the obstructive attitude of the trade unions? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in numerous cases locally they come to me and point out this very serious matter?

Was not the hon. and gallant Member in the House just now when the Minister himself said that trainees could not be placed in improverships?

Is it not a fact that, when the Select Committee made their investigations, the ex-service men's representatives themselves said that there was absolutely no foundation for the statement that the men were hindered from that cause?

I think it is impossible to generalise about this. The main ground for the difficulty in getting trained men placed is undoubtedly the stagnation in trade, but I should not be giving a quite fair statement if I did not admit at the same time that in a certain number of cases there has been some difficulty with regard to labour in the trades concerned.

Training And Emigration

28.

asked the Minister of Labour how many able-bodied ex-service men there are in this country who are out of employment; what steps are being taken to assist them to obtain employment in their own trades or to train them for other trades in which labour is required; and how many of such men can be assisted to emigrate if they so desire under any Government scheme during the next 12 months?

The number of able-bodied ex-service men at present registered at the Employment Exchanges as unemployed is estimated to be about 300,000. Preference for vacancies notified to Employment Exchanges is given by the Exchanges to ex-service men, and on relief works financially assisted by the State not less than 75 per cent. of the total labour required must in general be ex-service men. The Industrial Training Scheme is limited to disabled ex-service men who are prevented by their War disability from resuming their pre-War occupation, and in view of the unemployment still existing in almost every occupation I am afraid it is not practicable to extend it. With reference to the last part of my hon. Friend's question, I would refer him to the answer given on 26th February last by the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies to the hon. Member for Newcastle North (Mr. Grattan Doyle).

Is it not the case that there is, or is likely to be in the near future, a shortage of labour in certain trades, and could not the right hon. Gentleman take the first steps in training disabled men to meet the case?

I shall be very glad if my hon. Friend will indicate to me the trades in which there is likely to be a shortage.

Is it not a fact that there will probably be more unemployed ex-service men if the Trade Agreement with Russia is broken?

Allotment Associations' Meetings (Employment Exchanges)

26.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, having regard to the importance of the work carried on by allotment associations, he can see his way to grant facilities for such associations to hold their meetings at local Employment Exchanges on occasions when accommodation is not required by associations of employers or workpeople and approved societies?

Having regard to the limited accommodation available for holding meetings in Employment Exchanges, the use of rooms is, as a rule, allowed only in the case of bodies whose work is more or less directly connected with that of the Ministry of Labour, and I cannot give any general undertaking that these facilities shall be extended to allotment associations. My hon. Friend is, no doubt, familiar with Section 35 of the Small Holdings and Allotments Act, 1908, by which provision is made for the use of rooms in public elementary schools, free of charge, for the purpose of holding public meetings to discuss any question relating to allotments.

Will the right hon. Gentleman state that, if accommodation is available in some of these Exchanges, facilities will be afforded, and is he aware that it is not for public meetings that they are desired, but for the ordinary work of these allotment associations?

I am aware of that, but the premises available for Employment Exchanges are, quite rightly, restricted to the requirements of absolute necessity, and it would not be possible to give any general undertaking on the lines indicated.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think it better that these rooms should remain vacant rather than be used for allotment associations?

That assumption is entirely incorrect. The premises that we have are largely used every evening for purposes directly connected with the work of the Ministry of Labour.

Elder Dempster Steamship Company (Coloured Workers)

35 and 51.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) whether he is aware of the attempt of the Elder Dempster Company to reduce the wages of their coloured shore workers in Liverpool from £6 to £5 10s. monthly, when the standard now for British workers is £9 10s. per month; and, in view of the menace to the standard of life of the British seamen and shore workers by the employment of such underpaid labour, will he take immediate steps to see that fair wages are paid to all classes of its employees by this firm of Government contractors;

(2) whether he is aware that the Elder Dempster Steamship Company pressed upon their Asiatic and African shore-workers a reduction in their monthly wages from £6 to £5 10s.; that on or about the 19th April last a few hundred of them were discharged; that the Labour Exchanges and the boards of guardians are refusing to grant relief to these men as if they were on strike; that the employés of this company have other grievances with regard to the treatment they receive; and will he inquire into the conditions under which non-European labour is utilised in this country by shipping firms?

I understand that, while a reduction has been made in the wages of coloured firemen in conformity with the reduction settled by the National Maritime Board in the case of white seamen, no reduction has been made in shore wages. The claims of these men for unemployment benefit were disallowed, on the ground that they were not unable to obtain suitable employment. They have the right of appeal against the decision to the Court of Referees. I understand that these men are engaged on shore work only when their ships are in port; and it is not proposed to make the inquiry suggested by the hon. Member. Any question as to the observance of fair wages should be addressed to the Contracting Department concerned.

Office Of Works (Unemployment Contributions)

39.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a number of men employed in the Engineering Department of the Office of Works, who have now been transferred to the Supplies Department, have a considerable amount owing to them as refund of contributions under the Unemployment Insurance Acts which was inadvertently levied under the said Acts; and whether, as this refund has been promised for a long time now, he will state a definite time when the money shall be repaid?

No contributions under the Unemployment Insurance Acts have been deducted from the pay of these men since their transfer to the Supplies Division on cleaning work, and the question of refunding therefore does not arise.

Is the hon. Baronet aware that it is not a question of it being deducted since they were in the Supply Department, but when they were in the Engineering Department of the Office of Works?

In the Engineering Department they came under the Unemployment Insurance Act. Now, having been transferred definitely and permanently, they do not come under the Act.

There is no question of refunding the sums which were quite properly taken when they got the benefit of the Unemployment Insurance Act. They are no longer in that category and will not get the benefit, and therefore they do not pay.

Housing

Colliers' Cottages, Glamorgan

52.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the action of the Powell Duffryn Coal Company in commencing housing developments on a large scale near Llantrisant, Glamorgan, in close proximity to their new colliery; whether he is aware that this colliery company is receiving Government grants for housing; and whether, in view of the recommendations of the South Wales Regional Survey Committee, that a dormitory town should be provided off the coal measures near Llantrisant, he will take steps to insist that this colliery company shall comply with the standards of housing development for this area recommended by the said committee?

I am aware that the Powell Duffryn Company are erecting or proposing to erect a number of houses on three or four sites in the neighbourhoods of Llantrisant and Pengarn; I understand that they have not received any Government grant, but that they have obtained a guarantee under the Trades Facilities Act in respect of a loan to be raised for housing purposes. The plans which have so far been referred to and approved by my Department have been found to be satisfactory, and will not, I believe, interfere with the carrying out of the recommendations of the South Wales Regional Survey Committee.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these are very large pits, that there is a population of 10,000 in the neighbourhood and that houses are now being put down within 200 yards of the pit shaft, though there are plenty of suitable sites a little further away, and does he approve of this policy repeating the worst developments of the last 50 years?

I do not think that is the question put to me. The question is whether it would interfere with the South Wales Regional Survey's recommendation.

Does the Minister approve of that method of building cottages so near the pit shaft? That is the method which is causing so much trouble in South Wales now.

I have no power to interfere with this company building houses where they like.

In consequence of the right hon. Gentleman's unsatisfactory answer, I shall call attention to the question on the Motion for the Adjournment at the first opportunity.

Slum Clearances

53.

asked the Minister of Health on what grounds he bases his estimate of £230,000 as the money required to assist local authorities in slum clearance in any one year; and whether, if local authorities demand a larger sum, the necessary Estimates will be introduced?

The estimate of £230,000 referred to in the memorandum explaining the financial provisions of the Housing Bill was the best estimate that could be made of half the annual deficit on schemes to be approved under Clause 1 (3) of the Bill which local authorities might be expected to carry out in the near future. If local authorities submit schemes which would involve in the aggregate a larger contribution from the Exchequer, the matter will be further reviewed on the annual Estimates.

Will the proper proportion of this sum be granted to local authorities in Scotland?

Does "further review" mean that the Minister will introduce the necessary Estimates?

Building Bye-Laws

54.

asked the Minister of Health how many of the local authorities in South Wales and Monmouthshire have complied with the request made by his Department last year to amend their building bye-laws; and whether, in view of the urgency for providing new houses, he will take further action to speed up the local authorities that have not so amended their building bye-laws?

Of 104 local authorities with bye-laws, 14 have bye-laws of recent date. Of the remaining 90, 35 have replied to the Circular and I am keeping in touch with them. I am also communicating with those local authorities who have not yet replied. I may at the same time draw the hon. Member's attention to Clauses 12 and 13 of the Housing Bill.

Town Planning, Porthcawl

55.

asked the Minister of Health if he will exercise his powers under the Housing, Town Planning, etc., Acts to urge the Porthcawl Urban Council to take immediate steps to safeguard its future developments by the preparation of a town planning scheme, in view of the urgent need for such a scheme for Porthcawl and district as one of the chief seaside resorts easily accessible to all parts of the South Wales coalfields, and in view of the strong recommendations of this proposal by the South Wales Regional Survey Committee?

I am informed that the council have now decided to prepare a town planning scheme for this district.

Somers Town Area

56.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has refused to see a deputation from the St. Pancras Borough Council relative to the improvement of the Somers Town area; and why he has refused any help towards improvements in this overcrowded district?

After consultation with the London County Council and the St. Pancras Borough Council it appeared that the area referred to was not of the same urgency as others which the London County Council propose to submit for approval in the near future and for which Exchequer Grant of £50,000 per annum has been earmarked. In these circumstances it was decided that the scheme could not at present properly form part of the: London programme of improvement schemes for which Exchequer assistance is available.

Building Materials (Prices)

60.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the Abercarn urban district council attribute the great shortage of houses to the high cost of building material arising from the monopoly of the combines of building material; and will he expedite the consideration of this question by the Committee so that steps can be taken to deal with this evil?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; with regard to the second part, the Committee appointed to survey the prices of building materials is already at Work.

Flat-Rate Grant

61.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the Abertillery Urban District Council view with grave apprehension the Government proposals for assisting housing schemes; that assistance should extend to the full time of the loan period; and that a flat-rate grant of £6 per house is quite inadequate to meet the case of necessitous areas already heavily burdened with debt; and will he give special consideration to the needs of these areas?

I have received a communication on the lines stated by the hon. Member. The objections to differentiation in the subsidy have already been pointed out in the Debate on the Second Reading of the Housing Bill.

Are we to understand that there is to be no discrimination whatever between the necessitous areas with large debts and other areas that have had no unemployment and have, therefore, incurred no debts?

Vacant Houses

66.

asked the Minister of Health the number of vacant houses for sale in the cities and towns in England, Scotland and Wales, and which the owners refuse to let at a weekly, monthly, or quarterly tenancy?

Statistics on this point are not available, and I am afraid they could not readily be obtained.

71.

asked the Minister of Health if he has information as to the number of empty houses in Great Britain; if so, what is the number; and whether, in view of the present acute housing shortage, he will introduce legislation to compel the owners of such houses to convert them into working-class dwellings?

Statistics are not available showing the number of empty houses in Great Britain. As regards the last part of the question, the Bill before the House contains provisions enabling local authorities to facilitate the conversion of houses into separate flats.

Swansea

69.

asked the Minister of Health what was the estimated need for houses shown by the regional survey in Swansea; how many houses had the local authority proposed to build; how many were approved by the Ministry; and how many houses have been completed?

The need for houses was estimated by the local authority in 1919 at 6,378; the council adopted a general scheme for building 4,475 houses, which was provisionally approved by the Ministry of Health. The number of houses built with financial assistance was 752, and a further 236 houses have been sanctioned. These figures do not include houses erected without financial assistance.

70.

further asked the Minister of Health if approval has been given to the Swansea Town Council to proceed with a scheme for 50 houses at Mayhill; if a condition of the approval was the granting of the contract to Messrs. Allan Richards and Company; and if any other tenders were called for?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. No such condition as is referred to in the second part was attached to my approval. I understand that the firm in question, who are already engaged on a contract for the erection of houses on the site, approached the council with a price for a further instalment, and as the price is satisfactory it has been decided to proceed without calling for further tenders.

Black Country

72.

asked the Minister of Health whether, since the housing shortage, as indicated by the regional survey of 1920, in the Black Country was 26,420 and approved schemes provided for 19,149 houses, he will say how many houses have been completed since that date; and what estimate can be given of the present shortage of houses in this district?

Sanction has been given to the local authorities included in the area in question to erect 5,636 houses under the State-aided scheme and 5,341 houses had been completed on the 1st instant. In addition, 386 houses have been erected with the aid of the private builders' grant. Statistics are not available showing the number erected by private enterprise without State assistance. I have no estimate of the present shortage of houses, but local authorities have been requested to furnish evidence of the demand for houses in connection with any proposals they may put forward under the new Bill.

Liverpool

73.

asked the Minister of Health if the regional survey of Lancaster revealed an estimated need of 14,000 houses in the City of Liverpool; and how many of these were to replace unfit and insanitary houses?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. Of the total number of houses, 6,000 were estimated as required to replace houses unfit for human habitation, and 1,500 as necessary to replace other houses which fall below a reasonable standard.

South Wales And Monmouth Coal Area

74.

asked the Minister of Health what was the estimated need for houses indicated by the regional survey of 1920 in the district of the South Wales and Monmouthshire coalfield; how many Louses were provided for in the scheme of the local authority; how many were approved by the Ministry; and how many have been erected?

According to the survey made by local authorities in the area in question at the end of 1919 the estimated need during the following three years to meet overcrowding and to replace unfit houses was 56,900. The scheme of the local authorities was for a total of 55,750 houses. 10,111 houses have been authorised under the Assisted Scheme and 8,486 had been completed on the 1st instant. In addition, 1,627 houses have been erected with the aid of the Private Builders' Grant.

London (Overcrowding)

75.

asked the Minister of Health what proportion of the patients under the care of the London tuberculosis dispensaries live in dwellings with one or two rooms only; and whether he intends to make any special provision for dealing with the overcrowding in the Metropolitan area?

I have no information as to the first part of the question. As to the second part, overcrowding in the Metropolitan area will be automatically reduced as the erection of new houses proceeds.

Is any provision made for visitation of these tuberculous cases in the houses where they live, in order to lessen the danger of contagion and to give instruction for prevention?

Direct Labour, Tonbridge

76.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the Tonbridge Urban District Council has been able by direct labour to save £300 per house over private contract prices; and, if so, whether he will strongly recommend other local authorities to adopt this method?

I am not sure what are the precise schemes to which the hon. Member is referring and whether, in fact, they are properly comparable. I may say, however, that the general experience does not indicate that there is the advantage in direct labour over contract which the hon. Member suggests, and I do not consider that I should be warranted in following the course he proposes.

Industrial And Public Utility Schemes

77.

asked the Minister of Health how many houses have been built by industrial firms for their employés and by public utility societies, respectively, since the passing of the Housing and Town Planning, Etc., Act of 1919; and what proportion of these were built with the aid of the Government subsidy?

Information in regard to the first part of the question is not available. 4,519 houses had been completed on the 1st instant by 82 public utility societies and housing trusts under the State-aided scheme. Of these societies and trusts, some 35, which provided altogether 2,889 houses, were connected with industrial firms.

Hull

78.

asked the Minister of Health how many houses have been completed since the Armistice, or are now in course of completion, in Hull; and how this number compares with the needs of the city as estimated by the local authority under the 1919 Act?

The number of houses which have been built with financial assistance in Hull is 614, and approval to the erection of a further 124 has been given. These figures do not include houses erected without financial assistance. The estimate of need made by the local authority in 1919 was 7,778, but I must not be taken as accepting such a figure as representing the existing effective demand.

What is the reason for this discrepancy between the need in Hill and the number of houses actually sanctioned?

I suppose the schemes put forward by the local authorities in Hull did not correspond with what they themselves estimated to be the need. I must not be taken as accepting their figure of the needs which exist to-day.

Scarborough

79.

asked the Minister of Health how many of the 150 houses in Scarborough reported by the Yorkshire regional survey as being totally unfit are still inhabited?

I have no information as to the particular houses referred to by the hon. Member, but I am aware that the Scarborough Town Council are taking steps to deal with this problem. One scheme for improvement and re-housing in connection with an area containing 21 houses was approved by me in January last, and a second scheme dealing with 53 houses has been submitted by the council and will form the subject of a local enquiry at an early date.

Municipal And Private Enterprise

80.

asked the Minister of Health if he can now give statistics of working-class houses which have been built since the War by private builders without State assistance?

81.

asked the Minister of Health what is the number of working-class houses built by municipalities and private builders, respectively, in Great Britain during the years 1904 to 1914?

During the period 1904–1914 loans were sanctioned under the Housing Acts to local authorities in England and Wales for the erection of 8,381 houses. Information as to the number built by private enterprise is not available, but according to the Inland Revenue Returns as to Inhabited House Duty, there was a net increase of 628,589 houses of under £20 annual value in England and Wales during this period.

Is it the fact that information as to the number of houses built by private enterprise is not available because there were none?

Obviously not, because, as I have pointed out in the answer, loans were sanctioned for municipalities to build themselves over 8,000 houses, whereas the total increase in the number of houses was 628,000, so that the difference must represent what was built by private enterprise.

82.

further asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the statement of the chairman of the London County Council Housing Committee, on 28th November, 1922, that the class of house required by the working classes would not be built by private enterprise, he will take steps to grant additional facilities for municipal building in London?

I understand that the statement of the chairman of the London County Council Housing Committee had reference to building by private enterprise without assistance; the Bill now before the House provides for such assistance being given.

Local Authorities (Proposals)

84.

asked the Minister of Health if he will name the 38 local authorities who have submitted housing proposals under the new Bill for the approval of his Department?

I will send the hon. and gallant Member a list of these local authorities.

Well Hall Estate, Eltham

100.

asked the First Commissioner of Works, whether he is aware that, on the Well Hall estate, Eltham, there is a number of vacant houses; and that notices have been posted offering these houses for sale; and whether, in view of the large number of families needing, but unable to buy, houses, he will instruct his Department not to keep the houses empty until they can be sold, but to offer them to suitable tenants?

At the present time only three houses are vacant, one of which has been sold and the other two have been let. It is the settled policy of the Government to sell all the houses on their housing estates as and when opportunity offers. I cannot therefore issue an instruction such as is suggested in the last part of the hon. Member's question. If houses which fall vacant cannot be sold within a reasonable time they will be let.

Pathhead, Ford, Midlothian

102.

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health if he is aware that there is a serious housing shortage at Pathhead, Ford, Midlothian; that many houses there are closed for a period of the year and only occupied in summer time for holiday purposes; and if he is prepared to take any action to allow of these houses being let to tenants prepared to occupy them all the year?

I am aware that there is a shortage of houses at Pathhead, and I understand that there are at present in that district 15 houses not in continuous occupancy. The only method which the local authority could adopt to make these houses available for tenants desiring to occupy them continuously is to acquire them by purchase. I am in communication with the local authority as to the most suitable steps to be taken to relieve the shortage.

British Debt (United States)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether the War Debt settlement contract between His Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States of America has been finally ratified; and whether it will come before the House of Commons in any way?

The terms of the settlement of the British Debt to the United States agreed with the American World War Foreign Debt Commission have been approved by Congress and widely published. Discussions now proceeding relate only to technical points in connection with the actual Bonds to be given to the United States, and it is hoped that an early settlement of these points will be arrived at. As regards the last part of the question, I would refer to the answers given on the 26th February to my hon. Friend the Member for South Kensington, and on the 1st March to the hon. Member for Colne Valley.

May we take it that the House of Commons is going to be asked to ratify it, and will not be put in an inferior position?

The question of ratification does not arise, as I have explained in previous replies. The matter can be discussed on the Finance Bill, where there is a Clause that touches on the subject.

How did it come about that the repayment of this loan was to be in dollars, and not in sterling, which is very much to our disadvantage?

That would be a lengthy matter to go into now. I could easily explain it on the Finance Bill.

Pre-War Pensioners

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Sub-Committee of the Cabinet which is to consider the legislation to be introduced with the object of improving the scale of pensions to pre-War pensioners has been set up and, if so, when it is expected to report; and will he make it an instruction to the Sub-Committee to consider the question of administration under the Pensions (Increase) Act so that the limitations which have done so much to mar the usefulness of that Act may not find a place in the new legislation?

The Committee has been set up, but I cannot say when a report may be expected. I am not aware what points of administration my hon. Friend is referring to, but generally speaking, what the Government contemplates is simply an alteration of the scales of increase.

Will the Bill proposed to be introduced be brought in before Whitsuntide or after?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some local authorities interpret the 1920 Pensions (Increase) Act as permissive and have granted no increase whatever under it to ex-policemen, who are consequently in a very serious position, and will he expedite this legislation so that something may be done for these people?

Iraq (Treaty With King Feisal)

48.

asked the Prime Minister when Parliament will be invited to ratify the Treaty between His Majesty and the King of Iraq?

The question of the ratification of the Treaty with King Feisal and the new Protocol modifying its conditions cannot be considered until they have been submitted to a Constituent Assembly in Iraq. Such Constituent Assembly cannot be summoned until peace with Turkey has been concluded and the boundaries of the Arab State finally determined. Under our Constitution, ratification is a matter for the Crown and not for Parliament, but my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has given an undertaking that the King will not be advised to ratify this Treaty and Protocol until an opportunity has been afforded for the matter to be debated in Parliament.

As the Peace Treaties were brought before Parliament, why in this case are we to be in an inferior position to an uncreated Legislative Assembly in Iraq?

Why is it that a Constituent Assembly has been promised for the last two years in Iraq and now it is announced that it cannot meet until after the Peace Treaty with Turkey?

Why should the Constituent Assembly of Iraq have a prior right to consider this Treaty before the House of Commons?

Cakes (Boric Acid)

57.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the only prosecution for the presence of boric acid in cakes was due to the use of eggs that were at first frozen and then defrozen and subjected to boric treatment; and whether he can state if there are any further prosecutions pending?

So far as I am aware there has only been one recent prosecution on account of the presence of boric acid in cakes, but I have no information to show that the eggs used in that case had been frozen before being treated with boric acid. I have no official information as to any further prosecutions.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough, as the case referred to was in Birmingham, to take steps to find out what was the evidence, and whether it was frozen and defrozen eggs that constituted the basis of the case?

I have communicated and I have not been able to get any information to that effect.

If the Court took evidence, surely it was bound to take evidence as to the source of supply of the eggs?

Rates

62.

asked the Minister of Health what is the average rate in the £ for all local purposes levied in England and Wales in urban and in rural areas?

It is estimated that the average rate in the £ for all local purposes levied in urban areas in England and Wales during the past financial year (1922–23) was 14s. 6d. The corresponding rate in rural areas is estimated to have been approximately 12s. 4d.

In so far as the average rate in rural areas is much less than in urban areas, what does he propose to do to compensate the urban areas for the grant the Government is making to industries in agricultural areas?

National Health Insurance

Benefits (Approved Societies)

63.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that persons becoming insured under the National Health Insurance Acts and desiring to join an approved society have no means of knowing the benefits which are granted by the various approved societies; and whether he will cause a list to be published giving the names of all approved societies and the benefits and additional benefits which they grant to their members, so that persons coming into insurance may be able to select a society granting benefits suited to their needs?

I should not feel justified in incurring the considerable expense of publishing such particulars as the hon. Member suggests for the 8,500 approved soceties and branches administering national health insurance. Particulars of benefits and additional benefits can readily be obtained from the societies and branches. As regards additional benefits I may observe that these are liable to vary from time to time and that new entrants are not entitled to participate in the scheme current at the time of their joining a society.

Approved Societies (Administrative Allowance)

83.

asked the Minister of Health when he proposes to lay before Parliament the draft of the Regulation to reduce the administrative allowance of approved societies; and what opportunity will be afforded of Parliamentary discussion?

The draft Regulation, referred to by the hon. Member, will be published within the next few days, and the Regulation will be made and laid before Parliament as soon as the statutory period of 40 days has elapsed. There will be usual opportunities for Parliamentary discussion under the procedure whereby the Regulation becomes operative unless within 21 sitting days either House signifies its disapproval.

Poor Law Relief, Lewisham

65.

asked the Minister of Health the total sum paid in in-door and out-door relief by the Lewisham Board of Guardians in each of the years 1914 and 1922?

The total sum paid in respect of in-maintenance and out-relief by this board of guardians was in the financial year 1913–14, £22,740, and in the financial year 1921–22, £134,580. These totals exclude expenditure recouped by other Poor Law authorities.

Dentists Act, 1921 (Fees)

67.

asked the Minister of Health if, in accordance with the statement of the chairman of the Dental Board in the House on the 8th March, 1922, any attempt to lessen the annual fees demanded from dentists registered under the Dentists Act, 1921, is to be made in the year commencing January, 1924?

The undertaking to which the hon. Member refers was an undertaking to reconsider the fee in two years' time, from March, 1922. No undertaking was given that the fee would be reduced. I am informed that the Dental Board will duly consider the matter, in accordance with the undertaking given by their chairman, but they are not yet in a position to come to a decision.

River Lea (Pollution)

86.

asked the Minister of Health whether it has been brought to his notice that a case brought by the Lea Conservancy Board against the Finchley Urban District Council for pollution was dismissed by the Highgate Bench on the ground that the Conservancy Board were not in law entitled to bring the prosecution, which should, in fact, have been brought by the Middlesex County Council; and whether, seeing that under these circumstances the Lea Conservancy Board have no jurisdiction over the discharge of sewage effluent from Finchley, Hornsey, Friern Barnet, and Edmonton, and that the Hackney Borough Council have some evidence that Finchley and Edmonton have recently been causing pollution by their sewage discharge, he can see his way to make some alteration in the law so as to make the Lea Conservancy Board the sole prosecuting authority for the main river and all its tributaries?

My attention has been drawn to this case. I understand that the Lea Conservancy Board and the Middlesex County Council are considering the advisability of obtaining an amendment of the law in the direction indicated; and that in the meantime, the two authorities are working in co-operation.

Vaccination

87.

asked the Minister of Health what percentage of newly-born children were vaccinated in 1907; what percentage of children were vaccinated in 1922; and what was the total number of exemptions from vaccination granted in 1907, and the total number of exemptions in 1922?

In 1907, 70·9 per cent. of the newly-born children were vaccinated; in 1921, the percentage was 38·3. The total number of exemptions from vaccination was 76,709 in 1907, and 382,155 in 1921. Figures for 1922 are not yet available.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Germany vaccination is compulsory on everybody at birth and every seven years, and that smallpox is unknown; and in view of its occurrence in this country, is he satisfied that his Department has sufficient powers to deal with infectious disease?

I am not aware of the facts in reference to Germany, but I am convinced that vaccination is necessary to keep smallpox out of this country.

Period.Number of cases notified.Other cases reported but not notified.Cases subsequently withdrawn or not regarded as small-pox.Net Total of cases.
19213432330336
1922*1,0421780979
1923* (first three months)533518520

* The figures are provisional, as full particulars of certain cases have not yet been received.

Milk Supply

93.

asked the Minister of Health whether he proposes to take any action in accordance with the recommendations of the Departmental Committee on Distribution and Prices of Agricultural Produce, recorded in paragraph 142 of their Interim Report on Milk and Milk Products, with the object of stimulating the consumption of liquid milk by infants and children; and whether he will consult other Departments concerned, including the Board of Education, in furtherance of this object?

This matter is under consideration. I may, however, remind the hon. Member that a circular and pamphlet were issued by my Department in October, 1920, in regard to the use of milk, in which advice was given as to the best means of disseminating information on the special value of milk as a food, the desirability of largely increasing the consumption per head of the population, and the need for an adequate supply of fresh and pure milk.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any information as to the result of experiments at Birmingham on these lines?

94.

Small-Pox

88.

asked the Minister of Health if he can give figures showing the number of small-pox cases and suspected cases notified during 1921, 1922, and for the first three months of 1923?

With the hon. Member's permission, I will circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following are the figures supplied:

a Milk Advisory Committee, as recommended by the Departmental Committee on Distribution and Prices of Agricultural Produce, in paragraph 135 of their Interim Report; what will be the constitution of that Committee; and when will it commence to exercise its functions?

I have been asked to reply. The Report of the Departmental Committee is at present under consideration and I am not yet in a position to make any announcement as to the intentions of the Government with regard to the recommendation in question.

House Property (Income Tax Assessments)

95.

asked the Minister of Health whether the increase of rent allowed under the Rent Restriction Act was permitted largely in consideration of the increased cost of maintenance of buildings, etc.; and, if so, whether increased rent, in so far as it represents the increased cost of maintenance, will be exempted from an increase of assessment?

I have been asked by my right hon. Friend to answer this question. As I have stated in reply to other hon. Members, the present re-assessment for Income Tax purposes records, as on previous occasions, the annual value of property, or, broadly speaking, the annual rent which is paid under an ordinary tenancy, and the law makes provision whereby the owner can obtain allowance (apart from the flat-rate deductions for repairs), in respect of expenditure on repairs and maintenance upon a five-year average, so that in the result he will bear tax solely on the income which he enjoys.

Oxford University (Powers And Jurisdiction)

96, 97 and 98.

asked the Attorney-General (1) whether he is aware that the University of Oxford possesses powers over markets, weights and measures, theatres, and travellers by train, ousting or in competition with authorities set up by this House, and not confined in their operation to Oxford or the members of the University of Oxford; whether he will initiate legislation to revoke such powers;

(2) whether he is aware that the University of Oxford enjoys and exercises a jurisdiction in criminal matters not connected with or related to the powers of the vice-chancellor as a magistrate whether he is aware that such criminal jurisdiction extends to the whole of England and is not confined to students of the University; whether he will initiate legislation to repeal such jurisdiction;

(3) whether he is aware that the University of Oxford possesses and exercises a civil jurisdiction (ousting, saving on appeal to the High Court of Justice) in respect of contract (saving specific performance) and tort arising anywhere in England unlimited in amount if one party only is a senior or junior member of the University; and whether he will initiate legislation to remove such jurisdiction?

I am aware that the University of Oxford possesses certain civil and criminal jurisdiction which was originally conferred by charter and subsequently confirmed by Statute. I have no reason to believe that this jurisdiction is abused, and I know of no grounds for taking measures to remove it. I am not sure that I understand the first part of the third question, but so far as I do understand it, it is, I think, covered by my answer.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that recently, and on many previous occasions, this has been the subject of serious conflict? Will he answer that part of Question No. 98 which deals with an administrative authority in competition with the ordinary civil authorities?

As far as I understood the hon. Member's question, I did answer it. The question is:

"To ask the Attorney-General whether he is aware that the University of Oxford possesses and exercises a civil jurisdiction (ousting, saving on appeal to the High Court of Justice) in respect of contract (saving specific performance) and tort arising anywhere in England unlimited in amount if one party only is a senior or junior member of the University."
Unfortunately, I was neither a senior nor a junior member of the University, and the question beat me.

I doubt very much whether—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] Would the right hon. Gentleman have been so modest yesterday as to have asked my advice as to the meaning of a question? The question is based on a text book which should be well known to the Attorney-General.

Does the right hon. Gentleman regard the word "oust" as properly used to define anything conferred by mediæval charters, and confirmed by Acts of Parliament, and can they be said in any way to oust the authority set up by this House?

Real Property Law (Consolidation)

99.

asked the Attorney-General when the Bill to consolidate the law relating to real property is to be introduced?

I regret that I do not think it will be possible to deal with this matter this Session.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that an assurance was given by the Solicitor-General in the last Government that a Consolidating Bill would be introduced very soon? Is he also aware that, if there is no Consolidating Bill dealing with real property passed this Session, very great difficulty will be caused to the profession in view of the Law of Property Act coming into force next year?

I am aware that it will be necessary to introduce a Consolidating Bill. The Parliamentary draftsmen are engaged upon the Bill. They inform me that it is a matter of considerable difficulty. There is a great deal of work still to be done, and in the circumstances I do not think that it will be possible to introduce a Bill this Session.

Scotland

School Inspectors

101.

asked the Solicitor-General for Scotland the number of inspectors of schools in the service of the Scottish Education Department in the years 1916, 1917, and 1918, the average salary paid to each, the total cost, and the number of inspectors for the years 1921 and 1922, with the average salary and total cost?

As the answer to this question contains a number of figures, I am having it circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the answer:

SCOTTISH EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

Inspection Staff.

Year.No. of Inspectors.Average Salary.Total cost of Salaries.
££
1916–177244632,093
1917–187245232,568
1918–197250936,631
1921–226586956,462
1922–236474647,749

Note.—The figures as to salary in the foregoing table represent the amounts actually paid, including bonus. For the years 1916–17, 1917–18 and 1918–19, the amounts are somewhat below the normal owing to the fact that those members of the staff who were on military service did not receive their full civil salary.

Rates (Assessment)

103.

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health if he is aware that Section 37 of The Poor Law (Scotland) Act, 1845, causes grave dissatisfaction to assessing bodies for poor and education rates; that, due to the above-mentioned Clause, Cambusnethan parish rates will fall £6,000 short of the estimate; that Lord Dunedin's Committee recommended all assessments being collected on gross valuation; and what action, if any, does he propose taking to have the above Clause of the Poor Law Act repealed or amended?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave on 2nd May to a question on this subject addressed to me by the hon. Member for Central Edinburgh.

Education

Teachers' Superannuation

104.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether it is a rule of the Board, in administering the Teachers' Superannuation Act, to deduct absences on sick leave when reckoning the length of teachers' service for pension or gratuity; by what authority these deductions are made; in how many cases they are involved; and whether, as both the legality and the fairness of these deductions are seriously questioned and they are arousing dissatisfaction among the teachers penalised by them, the Board will agree to submit a test case to arbitration?

I would refer the hon. Member to Section 15 (1) (g) of the School Teachers (Superannuation) Act, 1918, which gives power to the Board, with the consent of the Treasury, to make rules for the treatment of sick-leave, and to the Rules (Statutory Rules and Orders 1330 of 1922) made thereunder. I regret that I am not in a position to state the number of cases in which periods of absence on sick-leave in excess of those allowed by the Rules have been deducted from pensionable service. I am not aware that the Rules are regarded by teachers generally as unreasonable, but I am prepared to give careful consideration to any case which the hon. Member may wish to bring to my notice as one possessing special features or involving special hardship. The Act contains no provision for arbitration, and I am afraid, therefore, that I cannot accede to the hon. Member's suggestion in the last part of the question.

Lowestoft

105.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he has satisfied himself, by examination into the records at the Board of Education or elsewhere, as to the quality in respect of character, ability, and teaching experience of the teachers recently appointed by the Lowestoft Local Education Authority to serve in the Lowestoft public elementary schools; and, if not, will he take steps to do so immediately in the interests of the proper education of the children in those schools?

The Code of Regulations for Public Elementary Schools requires every school or department to have a sufficient and suitable staff, and it will, of course, be my duty to see that this requirement is fulfilled at Lowestoft.

Canadian Cattle

106.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in connection with the agreement reached with Canadian representatives in regard to the admission into this country of Canadian cattle, any record exists in his Department of the pledge given to English farmers by his predecessor that commercial breeding stock from Canada would not be admitted into this country?

The answer is in the negative. I am not aware that any such pledge was given, but I may add that when my predecessor consulted representatives of the National Farmers' Union and of the Live Stock Defence Committee during the progress of the Conference with the Canadian representatives in October last, it was agreed that he must be allowed to make the best arrangement possible, consistent with adequate protection for British herds.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the agreement related to breeding cattle only, and not to cattle for commercial purposes?

Was it not understood in this House that any proposals with regard to breeding cattle were to apply only to special qualities of breeding cattle and not to breeding cattle as a whole?

107.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if his attention has been called to the Report of the medical officer of health to the Manchester port sanitary authority to the effect that the first batch of Canadian cattle were not altogether free from pulmonary tuberculosis; and what steps are being taken to test imported cattle for tubercle infection and to exclude the importation or distribution of cattle so infected?

The reply to the first part is in the affirmative. Canadian store cattle imported into this country are not required to undergo a test as to freedom from tuberculosis. Cattle affected with tuberculosis to a dangerous degree would be liable to be dealt with under the Milk and Dairies (Amendment) Act, 1922.

Will that enable us to stop the spread of tuberculosis among cattle?

Will the right hon. Gentleman say how cattle suffering from tuberculosis came to be described by his inspectors as "very healthy," as he stated in the House yesterday or the day before?

The fact was that the general report on the cattle was that they were very healthy.

That is a matter on which medical gentlemen will be more qualified to give an opinion than I am.

May I take it that the right hon. Gentleman is not qualified to give an opinion on such a vital matter in his own Department?

War Pensions (Overpayment)

113.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he can now state the total amount deducted from war pensions during the last financial year in respect of alleged overpayments due to clerical errors of the Ministry staff or otherwise?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for Nottingham West on the 8th March, of which I am sending him a copy.

Deportations To Ireland

Court Of Appeal Judgment

(by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can give the House any information about the judgment delivered to-day in the Court of Appeal regarding the deportations to Ireland, what that judgment is, and what action he proposes to take about it?

With the permission of the hon. Member, I will answer the question. A judgment was delivered in the Court of Appeal this morning, reversing the decision of the King's Bench Division, and saying that a writ of Habeas Corpus should issue in respect of one of the Irish deportees. The action which the Government are taking is that a petition to appeal has been prepared to the House of Lords. It will be lodged before 10 o'clock to-morrow morning, and an application will be made at 10.45, at the sitting of the House of Lords, for the hearing of the appeal to be expedited. The House will realise that as that is in effect a judgment which is under appeal, it would not be proper for me to discuss it.

May we have a distinct and definite assurance that this case will be hurried through the House of Lords without any possible delay, so that the matter may be finally settled?

Of course, I cannot promise what the House of Lords will do, but my application to-morrow is to be that the House of Lords will take the case on Monday.

Can the learned Attorney-General inform the House whether such an appeal operates as a stay of the writ?

It would be very much better if I did not discuss the legal aspect of the matter.

May I ask the Attorney-General whether his application for an appeal covers the cases from Scotland also, as the order for deportation was made separately for Scotland?

There was only one case heard before the Court of Appeal. It is only in that case that any order has been made, and it is only that order against which we are going to appeal.

British Note To Russia

Soviet Trade Delegation

(by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Note to Russia is authentic, as published in the Press to-day, and, in view of the Premier's letter to the right hon. Member for East Newcastle (Mr. A. Henderson)—that if action is taken it will be submitted to the judgment of this House—whether a day is to be given for Debate, so that the House may have a Division as well?

The text of the Note to Russia was communicated to the Press officially. I hope that by this evening there will be in the Vote Office a White Paper, which will include the text of the Note. If action be taken, full opportunity will be given for a Debate and a Division.

As I understand it, action may be taken within ten days. The House is adjourning next Thursday, and it will be desirable to have a day for the discussion of this action before it takes place.

Of course, if the hon. Member desires a Debate on this subject before the answer is received, it must be a somewhat restricted Debate. I can raise no objection to that, and it could be secured with ease by taking a continuation of the Foreign Office Vote on Tuesday next.

May we assume that no action will be taken after the reply has been received until this House has had the whole facts before it, and has had an opportunity for discussion?

No, my hon. and gallant Friend must not assume that, but it will be open to him afterwards to take part in what will be virtually a Vote of Censure on the Government.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that any sudden rupture will cause much loss on contracts to British firms who are carrying on trade—[HON. MEMBERS: "No, no!"]—and who in some cases have advanced British money on credit?

That of course will be one of the principal lines of argument in the Debate.

May I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer could he not see his way, at any rate, to say—since I think ten days' notice is given by the Note—that the Government do not intend to take any further action until the Debate on Tuesday.

My right hon. and learned Friend is as well aware as anyone in this House that the responsibility for such action, if it be taken, must rest with the Government. I could give him many precedents where action of this kind has been taken on the responsibility of the Government, and has been debated in this House afterwards.

Does not the Chancellor of the Exchequer think that the pledge given by the Prime Minister, that such action would be submitted to the House, means submitting it in time to stop it if it be wrong?

If my hon. and gallant Friend will again read that statement, with which I am perfectly familiar, he will see that only one interpretation can be placed on the word "action."

Quite apart from the textual meaning of the letter, does not my right hon. Friend consider that if we are to have a Debate on Tuesday on the subject, it would be, at any rate, courteous to the House not to take action until after that Debate, seeing that the time is so short?

We shall, of course, be perfectly prepared for the Debate on Tuesday and, of course, if the House of Commons decides against us we must resign.

Is it not the fact that so far as we have had any diplomatic or trade relations with Russia, those relations were sanctioned by this House after discussion, and would it not therefore have been proper to have taken the opinion of this House before taking any steps to break off those relations?