House Of Commons
Tuesday, 11th March, 1930.
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.
Private Business
Private Bills (Standing Orders not previously inquired into complied with).
Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That in the case of the following Bills, referred on the Second Reading thereof, the Standing Orders not previously inquired into, which are applicable thereto, have been complied with, namely:
- Southern Railway Bill.
- London and North Eastern Railway (No. 2) Bill.
Bills committed.
Private Bills [ Lords] (Standing Orders not previously inquired into complied with).
Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That in the case of the following Bills, originating in the Lords, and referred on the First Reading thereof, the Standing Orders not previously inquired into, which are applicable thereto, having been complied with, namely:
- United Kingdom Temperance and General Provident Institution Bill [Lords].
- Portsmouth Corporation Bill [Lords] (Certified Bill).
Bills to be read a Second time.
Coventry Corporation Bill (Certified Bill),
Derby Corporation Bill (Certified Bill),
As amended, considered; read the Third time (pursuant to the Order of the House of 11th December), and passed.
Glasgow Corporation Bill (by Order),
Second Reading deferred till Wednesday, 19th March, at half-past Seven of the Clock.
Oral Answers To Questions
British Army
Religious Situation, Russia (Intercessory Prayers)
3.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the Chaplains' Board was consulted before the order was issued with regard to public intercession on behalf of Christians in Russia on official parades?
1.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the Chaplain-General to the Forces was consulted before the Army Council issued instructions against intercessory prayers on church parades on 16th March?
The answer is in the negative.
Is it not usual to consult the Chaplains' Board on such occasions?
This was a Government decision of a political, and not a religious, nature.
Will the right hon. Gentleman give me an answer to my question? Is it not usual to consult the Chaplains' Board on these matters?
This matter has never arisen before, so it cannot be usual.
Is not this the first time that any Government has stated that political considerations decide what ought to be a religious matter?
Obviously, it is the first time that it has occurred.
Is it the position that the Army may watch, but may not pray?
The Army can pray as much as it likes, but these services must not be compulsory services.
Did the Chaplain-General tender his resignation in connection with this matter?
So far as I know, no.
Accept it if he does!
Territorial Army Bands (Copyright Music)
4.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that the Performing Right Society claim from the bands of Territorial units an annual fee of £1 1s. per annum for the performance of copyright music and a fee of £3 3s. from the owners of a drill hall on every occasion when a dance or entertainment is organised by a Territorial unit and the services of an outside orchestra are engaged; and, if, in view of the importance of assisting the Territorial Army in its social activities, he will make a compounding arrangement with the Performing Right Society?
I understand that the fees payable to the Performing Right Society have been settled as the result of negotiations between the Council of County Territorial Associations and the Society.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say what amount was paid to the Performing Right Society last year for these fees?
Not without notice, and I doubt whether, even with notice, I could get the particulars without an undue expenditure of time and labour.
Does the right hon. Gentleman confirm the figures in my question?
Yes; I took careful note of the figures.
Canteens (Home And Empire Products)
5.
asked the Secretary of State for War if any steps are taken to encourage the sale of home and Empire products in Army canteens in preference to articles of foreign origin?
Yes, Sir, I understand that the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes take active steps to encourage the sale of home and Empire products. Such products are clearly indicated in the quarterly price list, and special posters and leaflets are issued periodically and special displays are given to draw attention to the advantages of purchasing British Empire goods.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that more could be done to encourage the sale of British goods, in view of the fact that very large quantities of goods of foreign origin are still sold in these canteens?
Is my right hon. Friend aware that in many cases privates in the Army do not buy home and Empire products because the prices are too high?
Troops, China
6.
asked the Secretary of State for War what British troops are stationed at the present time in China; and how the forces there now compare with those maintained there a year ago?
There are at present in China, five British battalions and one Indian battalion, together with ancillary troops, compared with six British and one Indian at the same date last year.
Are there any proposals to reduce the forces in Shanghai?
At the present moment there is no intention of doing that, but I cannot speak for the future.
Ordnance Factories (Employment)
11.
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, before deciding to place on short time the men employed at the ordnance factories, he will consider possible alternatives to this course and will receive representations from the local authorities and the men affected?
7.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether it has been decided to introduce short time into the ordnance factories; if so, how many men will be adversely affected; and what will be the average reduction of wage as the result?
The work available for the ordnance factories at Woolwich, as at present forecasted in respect of the coming financial year, is not sufficient to employ, under the normal factory conditions, the existing number of employés on full time. It has been accordingly proposed to introduce short time on the basis of a five-day week of eight hours a day. By this means it was hoped to distribute the work to the fullest possible extent among existing staff and avoid the necessity for discharges. I need hardly say that all the practicable courses were carefully and anxiously considered before this conclusion was reached. I am already in touch with representatives of the men, and I am hoping to discuss the problem with them again on Thursday next. I shall be glad to consider carefully any other solution they may suggest. I shall also be happy to receive representatives of the borough authorities should they desire me to do so. It will be seen from what I have stated that the matter has not yet been finally disposed of, and I am, therefore, unable to give the additional information for which the hon. Member for Newcastle North (Sir N. Grattan-Doyle) asked.
Do not the Government proposals mean, so far as Woolwich is concerned, a reduction of some 10 to 15 per cent. in the earnings of the men; and is not the number of men affected some 7,000? Is that correct?
It depends upon what the right hon. Gentleman means by Government proposals. Certain suggestions have been made, and these are to be discussed with the representatives of the men on Thursday.
Will it mean the reduction in earnings that I have indicated?
That is pure assumption.
I am asking if it is correct or not.
I cannot state whether the assumption is correct.
Have the Government any other alternative proposal besides this one?
When we meet the men and hear what they have to say, possibly alternative proposals may be suggested on either side.
Has the hon. Gentleman got all the orders that he can from the Air Ministry and the Admiralty? It may be difficult in the case of the Admiralty, but the Air Ministry is increasing its expenditure, and cannot some of it be placed at Woolwich?
We are doing everything that is possible to secure all the orders that we can from the Departments mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman, and we shall continue to do so.
In the event of these men being displaced, will any compensation be paid to them?
Is it not the fact that under the Government programme this Arsenal will be gradually discarded and done away with altogether, and will work be found for these men?
Navy, Army And Air Force Institutes
10.
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office what has been the result of his investigation into the conducting of the Navy, Army, and Air Force Canteen Board, particularly the salaries and wages paid and the conditions of working of those in the service?
I am in communication with the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes on the question which my hon. Friend recently put to me, and I will let him know the result in due course.
Scotland
Building Materials (Slates And Doors)
14.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the town councils of Scottish cities and, in particular, the Town Council of Glasgow have used exclusively Scottish slates in their housing schemes during the last two years; and, if not, from what country or countries were the slates used derived and in what quantities?
The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. The particulars desired in the latter part are not available for all Scottish cities, but I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a tabular statement showing, as regards the four principal towns, information that has been obtained in respect of housing contracts entered into during the last 10 years.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that quite recently the Glasgow Corporation bought 5,000 tons of slates from an Irish quarry; is there any difference in cost between the Scottish and the Irish slates; and are not the Scottish slates the more durable?
Statements have been made to the effect that the Corporation of Glasgow have given an order for some such figure as the hon. and learned Member has mentioned. My information is that Scottish slates are more durable than the Irish slates.
Are not the Cornish ones better still?
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the agent of the Irish quarry is a member of the Glasgow Town Council, and that he stated that they were not as good slates?
Following is the tabular statement:
Slates
| ||
Town. | Country of Production. | Number. |
Glasgow | Welsh | 3,797,375 |
Scottish | 3,788,125 | |
English | 39,750 | |
Irish | 488,500 | |
Norwegian | 39,750 | |
Edinburgh | Welsh | 1,664,600 |
Scottish | 43,950 | |
English | 456,850 | |
Dundee | Welsh | 339,000 |
(Fleming Trust Scheme) | Norwegian | 336,000 |
Aberdeen | Welsh | 1,041,300 |
19.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether all the councils in Dumbartonshire are specifying British doors for their housing schemes?
I am informed that in several housing schemes in Dumbartonshire foreign-made doors were specified, but I have drawn the attention of the local authorities concerned to the circular which my Department issued on 23rd December last regarding the desirability of making use, to the utmost extent practicable, of goods and materials of home production, and I hope that this will lead the local authorities concerned to consider revising their practice.
Was it the local authorities' specification or that of the contractors sending in estimates?
I understand that in some of the schedules foreign-made doors were actually specified.
When is the inquiry into various irregularities in Glasgow going to be embarked upon?
This question has nothing to do with that matter.
Glasgow Housing Schemes
16.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the respective maintenance costs of the Glasgow Corporation housing schemes at Craigton and Drumoyne?
I am informed that for the years 1923 to 1929 inclusive the maintenance costs of the Glasgow Corporation's housing schemes at Craigton and Drumoyne were £8,149 7s. 7d. and £5,440 9s. 1d. respectively. The number of houses at Craigton is 454, as compared with 318 at Drumoyne.
In view of the amazing statement circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT last week in relation to these two housing schemes, is the hon. Gentleman prepared to ask the officials of his Department to inquire into the reasons why the Glasgow Corporation discarded the Department responsible for the Drumoyne scheme?
I am afraid that we have no power to do that. The discretion as to whether the Corporation carries out the work by direct labour or by contract is a matter entirely for the Corporation.
If it has been proved that there is a saving of over £200 per house as between the two methods, surely it is in the interests of the public purse that the Government should inquire into it?
It is certainly the case that my hon. Friend's question and the answer have given widespread publicity to the figures to which he has referred, and I trust that they will be taken into cognisance by all local authorities.
17.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, before sanctioning any extension of housing schemes by private enterprise in Glasgow for which a State subsidy is applied, he will cause an investigation into the financial arrangements covering such schemes?
Sanction is not required to any extension of housing schemes in Glasgow by private enterprise for which State subsidy is applied. In such cases the State subsidy is payable to the Corporation who make it available to private enterprise in accordance with their general scheme of assistance which has been approved by the Department of Health for Scotland.
Is the hon. Gentleman prepared to receive a deputation which will submit evidence that the housing scheme sanctioned is grossly over-subsidised?
Any evidence to the effect that State moneys are going unnecessarily in housing schemes will be gladly welcomed by the Department.
Will the hon. Gentleman takes powers, if he has not got them, to see that, if anyone who is using private enterprise to erect houses uses other than Scotch slates, he will not get any subsidy?
Tanning Trade (Pig Skin Supplies)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that the tanning trade in Scotland is suffering from a shortage of pig skins; and what steps he proposes to take to increase the supply?
I have not received any representations to the effect that the tanning trade in Scotland is suffering from a shortage of pig skins. I am aware, however, that the number of pigs in the country varies from year to year. The Department of Agriculture for Scotland administer several schemes for the improvement of the breeding and rearing of pigs and my hon. Friend may rest assured that everything possible is being done to stimulate this industry.
Has the right hon. Gentleman received representations from those who have tanneries, or will he receive a deputation from them?
I have already said that I have received no direct representations from the tanneries, but if they want to send a deputation I shall be quite prepared to meet it.
Building Sites (Acquisition)
18.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that, while the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, enables local authorities to exercise compulsory powers to take land for working-class houses, there exists no legislation to enable private individuals to obtain compulsorily land in and around small towns and villages in Scotland for building dwelling-houses or shops; and whether the Government proposes to introduce legislation to compel landowners to make land available when and where required, subject to approval of the Department of Health, in view of the shortage of houses and existing unemployment?
I am aware that there is no existing power enabling private individuals to obtain compulsorily land for building purposes. I would, however, refer the hon. Member to the terms of paragraph (c) of Sub-section 1 of Section 44 of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1925, empowering local authorities to acquire land for the purpose of disposing of it with a view to the erection thereon of dwelling houses, or to its use for other purposes incidental to the development of the land as a building estate.
Potato Industry
20.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has received copies of the resolutions passed recently at mass meetings of farmers, farm servants, and other agriculturists held in Scotland, and also passed by other agricultural bodies, on the subject of the crisis in the potato trade and of the effect of the importation of foreign bounty-fed cereals; and what action he proposes to take in the matter?
The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. I fully appreciate the special difficulties in which arable farmers find them- selves at the present time owing to the prevailing low prices for their chief products and, while I am not in a position at present to add anything to what has been said by my colleagues and myself in recent replies in the House, I am carefully examining the situation and possible means of alleviation in conjunction with the other Ministers who are concerned.
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware of the very serious situation that exists in the county of Fife and other grain-producing areas, and will he not be in a position to make an immediate announcement as to what the policy of the Government is in view of the very strong feeling that exists throughout the country?
I have already assured the hon. Member that I am fully aware of the difficulties, and that I am carefully examining the situation and looking for a satisfactory solution.
Is it not a fact that the hands of the Government are tied by an international Convention signed by the previous Government?
Will the right hon. Gentleman inquire into the practice on the Continent that all surplus potatoes and other crops are used for power alcohol distilleries?
Unemployment
Wye And Thames Valleys (Drainage Schemes)
21.
asked the Lord Privy Seal when he expects to be able to give the House an outline of his plans for the drainage of the Wye and Thames valleys, and of other works connected therewith?
A drainage scheme for part of the Thames Valley has been submitted by the Thames Conservancy and the Surrey and Middlesex County Councils and has been approved. The Surrey County Council have also submitted a drainage scheme for the Wey Valley, and this has been approved, subject to certain engineering details. A grant towards the cost of both of these works has been approved by the Unemployment Grants Committee.
Is it likely that work will be started in a short time?
The difficulty is that we have no power as to the day on which work will commence. All we can do is to press upon the local authorities, when a scheme has been sanctioned, to speed it up.
Are there any further difficulties, or is it merely a question of getting the work started?
I understand, so far as the grants are concerned, that that is satisfactorily settled. There are some technical engineering difficulties that are being negotiated.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is the size of the grants he mentioned?
If that were asked, but it is not in the question.
Gravesend
22.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether schemes in connection with the relief of unemployment have been submitted by the municipality of Graves-end; and whether he has approved such schemes?
The Gravesend Town Council have submitted the outline of schemes in contemplation by them, subject to certain conditions. No formal application for a grant has yet been received by the Unemployment Grants Committee but discussion with the council is proceeding.
In view of the appeal which the right hon. Gentleman has made to all Members of the House, is he able and willing to allow some latitude in the conditions of these relief schemes?
Instead of helping, I I am satisfied that it would hamper them if I were merely to announce some change from week to week or month to month. It would retard local authorities, it would be unfair to those who have already submitted schemes, and I repeat that the terms are the final terms of the Government.
Are not those terms in certain special circumstances subject to some variation?
There are circumstances which always arise and which are taken into consideration. The important principle is that there is no special benefit to one locality as against another.
Liverpool
23.
asked the Lord Privy Seal the amount that has been approved to date for grant by the Unemployment Grants Committee to the Liver pool City Council for the relief of unemployment?
Since the 1st June, 1929, the Unemployment Grants Committee have approved 18 schemes estimated to cost £486,912 in respect of works undertaken by the Liverpool City Council for the relief of unemployment.
24.
asked the Lord Privy Seal the number and the amount of schemes submitted for grant by the Liver pool Council since 4th February to date?
Since the 4th February, 1930, three schemes of work estimated to cost £45,542 have been submitted by the Liverpool City Council for the relief of unemployment. In addition a preliminary inquiry has been received regarding a proposed scheme, the estimated cost of which is £80,000.
In view of the very large number of unemployed in Liverpool, will my right hon. Friend urge upon the Liverpool Council the vital necessity of pressing forward with more and larger schemes for the relief of unemployment, especially in view of the fact that we understand that the Liverpool rates are going down this year?
I am sure that we all welcome the rates going down, but recently, in answer to a question by my hon. Friend, I did specifically urge the Liverpool Corporation to speed up schemes, and this is the response.
As the response seems to be very small, will my right hon. Friend still urge them?
Of these schemes sanctioned, is my right hon. Friend in a position to say on how many work has been started?
No, I cannot.
Southwark
25.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether any schemes have been submitted to him this year by the Southwark Borough Council; and can he give particulars?
Since the 1st January, 1930, no schemes have been submitted by the Southwark Metropolitan Borough Council to the Unemployment Grants Committee for a grant in connection with works for the relief of unemployment.
Can my right hon. Friend ask them to hurry up and see if they cannot submit some schemes?
I would rather suggest that the influence of my hon. Friend should be used.
Lead Mines, Upper Teesdale
27.
asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will cause inquiries to be made into the possibility of developing the lead-mining industry of Upper Tees-dale, County Durham; and if he will, in the suggested inquiry, ascertain what new machinery is required to develop the industry and facilitate any loan for this purpose?
I am always ready to consider whether anything can be done to assist schemes which would lead to increased employment, but I would remind my hon. Friend that the Government is not able to guarantee loans for purposes such as that mentioned.
Will my right hon. Friend consider whether or not this is a case which his City friends can take up?
Oh, yes, and I am quite sure that, with the blessing of the hon. Gentleman, it would be a special inducement.
Is it not notorious that the chief difficulty of the lead industry to-day is over production, and that during the last two months steps have been taken by the employers to limit it?
Portsmouth
30.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether his Department has received any schemes for the relief of unemployment from the Portsmouth City Council; and, if so, whether he will state the nature of the schemes?
The outlines of a scheme for the construction of an aerodrome were received by the Unemployment Grants Committee a few days ago. Before any such scheme could be carried out Parliamentary sanction would probably be required. In addition, the outlines of a number of tentative road schemes have been submitted to my hon. Friend the Minister of Transport.
Will the right hon. Gentleman, in view of the fact that unemployment is so rife in Portsmouth, get in touch with the President of the Board of Trade and suggest that British sailors instead of Lascars should be employed in shipping?
Canadian Wheat And British Products (Exchange)
31.
asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will now state briefly to what extent, in addition to the 40,000 tons of soft coal to be shipped as soon as the St. Lawrence is reopened, his arrangements of last autumn have been carried out by which the Canadian wheat pool were to send wheat regularly to us in vessels which would return with coal cargoes?
I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given on 4th March to the hon. Member for Newcastle North (Sir N. Grattan-Doyle).
Are we to infer, therefore, that the only thing which we have got out of this visit is the atmosphere which the Lord Privy Seal created in Canada?
No. The mining industry has a definite order in a new market for 40,000 tons of coal. The Lancashire cotton industry, I hope, will benefit by the representations made in connection with their tonnage. A number of other benefits accrued as well, but I think that, that is sufficient to justify the hon. Gentleman feeling what a successful trip it was.
Tramcar-Building Industry
32.
asked the Lord Privy Seal if he is aware that the Unemployment Grants Committee declined to accede to the application of the Leeds Corporation for a grant towards the cost of expediting the construction of 150 tramcars, giving as one reason for so deciding the absence of acute unemployment in the car-building industry; that inquiries have shown that unemployment is exceptionally acute in this industry and that the two firms at Preston and Leicester who built the last large fleet of cars for Leeds are almost at a standstill for lack of orders; and will he have this matter reconsidered?
This matter has been brought to my notice, and I am discussing it further with my right hon. Friend.
Level Crossings, Lincoln
34.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in view of the increasing congestion at the level crossings in Lincoln, the Government have approved for grant the scheme for the construction of an avoiding road by the London and North Eastern Railway Company near the City of Lincoln; and whether, if the scheme has been finally approved, he can now say when the work will be commenced?
This scheme is still under consideration, but it is hoped that a decision will be reached very shortly. I may say that it is part of a big scheme submitted by this particular railway company.
Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Government approve the principle of a grant for this particular scheme?
The difficulty, as I have said, is that it is part of a whole series of improvements embodied in a general scheme submitted. No particular view has been expressed on the scheme which the hon. Member has mentioned.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the urgency of alleviating this particular nuisance in Lincoln, having regard to the fact that an increasing number of people are regularly being held up in this city, as I have been for 20 years? I estimate that I have lost 20 hours each year?
Forth Road-Bridge Scheme
35.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in view of the resolution passed at the conference of local authorities recently held in Edinburgh to consider the Forth road-bridge scheme and of the contributions then intimated, he can state what amount the Government would be prepared to contribute towards the scheme and the conditions which would attach to such a grant?
I have been asked to reply. The verbatim note of the conference was only received last week. While there has not been time to study it in full, the proceedings appear to have been inconclusive. I understand that certain contributions were indicated as likely to be made by Edinburgh (£100,000) and Dunfermline (£8,000) towards the cost of a Bridge Scheme. The total cost of such a scheme would, however, exceed £6 millions. I am not in a position to make any further statement in the matter until I have had an opportunity of carefully examining the report of the meeting.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the local authorities are anxious to know exactly what the Government view is about this matter, and what the Government are prepared to do in offering a contribution, and will he not consider indicating definitely what contribution the Government are prepared to make?
Ought it not to be for the local authorities to indicate what they are prepared to give?
I can quite understand the point which the hon. Member raises, that the local authorities want to know what the Government think of the scheme and how much they will contribute, and that is exactly what I want to know from the local authorities—how much importance they attach to the scheme on traffic grounds, and how that importance is reflected in cash.
Railway Coaches (Lighting)
36.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in view of the fact that there are still, approximately, 30,000 gas-lit coaches on British railway steam-worked coaching stock, representing about 50 per cent. of the whole, he will consider the advisability, in the interests of employment and public safety, of making a condition, in connection with Government grants or loans to railway companies, that they should convert this dangerous system to that of lighting by electricity?
As the reply is a long one and involves figures, I will, with the right hon. Gentleman's permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT, but he will be pleased to know that good progress in this connection is being made.
Following is the reply:
The figure of 30,000 appears to relate to the number of gas-lit coaches at 1st November, 1928. Since that date, the railway companies have made further progress with the conversion of their gas-lit coaches in the normal course. The following proposals (which are additional to the ordinary programme) involving expenditure under this head have been included by the companies among the works which they are undertaking in fulfilment of their obligations to the Government in connection with the repeal of the Railway Passenger Duty:
£ | |
Great Western Railway Company | 80,000 |
London, Midland and Scottish Railway Company | 208,840 |
London and North Eastern Rail way Company | 56,000 |
It is understood, however, to be uncertain whether the last item of the above will be proceeded with. In addition, the London, Midland and Scottish Railway Company have obtained a grant under the Development Act in respect of the expenditure, estimated at £287,500, involved in the substitution of electric lighting for gas in a further 1,250 coaches.
The Minister of Transport, has made representations on several occasions within the last few years to the railway companies as to the desirability, in the interests of safety, of accelerating their programme of substituting electric lighting for gas in their passenger coaches, and he will renew such representations if it appears from the returns of their rolling stock, which the companies have now undertaken to submit annually, that the process of conversion is not proceeding at a satisfactory rate. In view, however, of the large expenditure involved, I do not consider that the railway companies could reasonably be asked to undertake the conversion of the whole of their pas- senger stock at once, or that a condition such as that suggested in the question could be attached to any grants made to the companies for other works. Apart from the gradual conversion of their existing stock, the practice of the railway companies is to equip all new passenger stock with electric lighting equipment, with the exception of a certain restaurant cars in which gas is utilised. Consequently, as the companies' existing stock has to be replaced, the proportion of coaches lighted by electricity will be increased.
Imperial Conference
37.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in view of the reported intention to hold an Imperial Economic Conference this year, he is preparing for submission to this gathering specific proposals calculated to relieve unemployment in this country; and, if so, of what nature?
The agenda for the Imperial Conference is now under consideration. Trade questions will be included, and I hope that the conference will result in mutual benefit to trade and employment in this country and the Dominions.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give a definite date when the conference will meet?
No, Sir.
Will any specific proposals for the agenda be submitted to this House first?
As far as I am aware, it has never been the practice to submit proposals for the agenda of an Imperial or Economic Conference to this House, and I have no reason to believe that there will be any departure on this occasion.
Mercantile Marine (Chinese Seamen)
38.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the British s.s. "Misty Law" has recently paid off her whole British crew at Rotterdam and replaced them by Chinese; that the "Traprain Law" of the same line has just replaced her whole crew in Glasgow, in all departments, by Chinese, who were sent up from London to Glasgow for the purpose; that both these vessels are engaged in trade between Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand; and whether, in view of the prevalent unemployment amongst British seamen, he will make endeavours with shipowners to avoid such action in the future?
I understand that the crew of the s.s. "Misty Law," engaged at Rotterdam on the 23rd January last, included Chinese firemen, cooks and stewards, the officers and the deck crew being European; but the only white British seamen replaced by Chinese were the cooks and stewards, numbering five in all; the firemen on the previous voyage were Arabs. These British seamen could have signed on again if they had wished. The crew of the s.s. "Traprain Law," engaged at Glasgow on the 28th January, included Chinese firemen, cooks and assistant stewards, the officers and the deck crew being British; but as this was the vessel's first voyage there has been no replacement of British by Chinese in this instance. While I am anxious to see as many British seamen employed as possible, the matter is not one in which the Board of Trade can intervene.
May I ask when the President of the Board of Trade will be able to look into this matter seriously. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order, order!"] I am well aware that he has been much engaged on another great measure, but I should like to know when he will be able to look into this matter in view of the increasing number of British seamen unemployed and the unfortunate increase in the number of Asiatics employed in British ships?
I have considered this matter from time to time, and generally I have done everything in my power. But there are definite limits to anything which the Board of Trade can do.
Are not the conditions now very much different in view of the great unemployment in the country? British seamen cannot get another job now as easily as they could a year ago, and will my right hon. Friend consider this matter in connection with the proposals of the Lord Privy Seal?
Will the right hon. Gentleman make a special appeal to the alleged patriotic British shipowners to engage British labour?
In view of the fact that these ships ply in the Tropics is it not a disadvantage that British seamen should be employed instead of Orientals?
Channel Tunnel
28.
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he can now make a statement concerning the Channel Tunnel?
I hope that copies of the Report will be in the Vote Office by 4 p.m. on Friday.
Can the right hon. Gentleman state when he thinks that the Government will be in a position to make a statement on the matter?
I have stated that the report is only being printed at this moment, and the Government have not yet considered it.
After what we heard last night about the development in the draught of ships, I hone that my right hon. Friend will not—
Order!
Trade And Commerce
Russian Cotton Goods (Imports)
39.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has been able to obtain figures of the amount of cotton goods imported into this country from Russia during the last quarter of 1929?
The total declared value of cotton goods of all descriptions, so far as they are distinguished in the import list, imported into the United Kingdom and registered as consigned from Russia during the last quarter of 1929, amounted to £1. The consignment consisted of cotton lace.
Does the President of the Board of Trade think it possible for goods to come from Russia in a roundabout way, so that we are not able to find them out?
I should like to have notice of that question. I ought to tell the hon. Member that on the information before me there is no proof of the recent imports alleged in some quarters in Lancashire.
The other day the right hon. Member informed us that the amount was something like £5,000. Can he tell us why it has gone down to £1?
If the hon. Member looks at the other reply ho will see that it refers to a somewhat different point.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether these figures can be entirely relied upon? Is it not the cause that importation takes place, but that it is not reflected in the figures of the Board of Trade?
I have indicated in reply to a previous question that it is difficult. I have the matter still under inquiry, and all I can say is that on the statistics before us there is no proof of these imports.
If I put down a question in a week's time, may I hope for a definite reply?
Cotton Trade
45.
asked the Prime Minister when he expects to receive the report of the sub-committee inquiring into the cotton trade?
I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave on Tuesday last in reply to a similar question by my hon. Friend the Member for Mossley (Mr. H. Gibson).
Has the right hon. Gentleman nothing to add to the information available?
Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to give any approximate date when any of these reports will be received? There is another report about iron and steel.
My right hon. Friend stated only a few days ago that the Committee are expediting their work as rapidly as possible. We realise the im- portance of this matter, and I can assure the House that there will be no unnecessary delay.
Have the Government appointed a new chariman of that committee lately?
I understand that my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade was chairman for some time, but he has been called away out of the country so often that another member is acting in his place.
Tariff Truce Conference
65.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he can make a further statement concerning the proceedings of the Tariff Truce Conference; and what is the estimated cost of the attendance of the British delegates?
As regards the first part of the question, I can add nothing at present to the statement which I made to the House last Tuesday. As regards the second part, I understand that, on the assumption that the Conference lasts a month, the cost of the British delegation will be about £1,000.
Is the right hon. Gentleman going to inform the House of the very important decision that was arrived at yesterday, when the British scheme was superseded, and the French proposals were adopted and how the British delegates—[Interruption.]
I think that the right hon. Gentleman had better put down a question.
I will ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is prepared to make a statement as to what happened yesterday?
These matters are still under consideration at Geneva; I propose to return to Geneva to-morrow, and at the earliest possible moment I will inform the House as to the decision come to.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the report appearing in the Press is correct, that the French refuse to have anything to do with the British proposals, and that the French and Belgians, and, I think, the Germans, have agreed to an alternative scheme; and, if so, what action does he propose to take?
I should not like to express any view at all on Press reports, but I can tell the House that various plans are under consideration at the moment. I can only repeat that at the very earliest point, I will give the House information as to any decision that is reached.
May I ask how much more of this kind of thing we have to stand from those gentlemen opposite?
Answer!
Government Departments
Board Of Trade (Registrar And Solicitor)
41.
asked the President of of the Board of Trade whether he will examine the organisation of the Departments of the Registrar and Solicitor to the Board of Trade with a view to enabling those Departments to deal more effectually with a state of affairs in which nearly 2,600 public companies are now in default in the filing of their balance sheets?
Like the hon. Member I am anxious to secure that there shall be no undue delay in the filing of balance sheets by public companies, but I have no reason to believe that the procedure which I have outlined in previous replies is ineffective.
Promotion
62.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that the continued recruitment of open competition entrants to the executive and clerical classes prejudicially affects the promotion prospects of clerical officers, writing assistants, typists, and P-class clerks, and results in continued insecurity amongst temporary clerks; and whether he is prepared to limit open competitive recruitment to the executive clerical and writing assistant classes to a point which permits of free consideration of the claims to promotion of persons already serving, and a declaration of security to be given to the remaining temporary staffs?
Recourse is had to open competitive examination for the executive and clerical classes only for the purpose of satisfying the requirements of the Departments after the claims to promotion of all suitable officers therein have been fully considered. With regard to the writing assistant examination I am prepared to continue the arrangements announced by my predecessor on the 22nd November, 1928, in reply to a question from the hon. and gallant Member for the Dulwlch Division (Sir F. Hall) whereby suitable ex-Service temporary clerks who may become redundant will be re-employed where practicable on a temporary basis in posts normally filled by writing assistants. On the question of security, as regards ex-Service clerks, I would refer my hon. Friend to the assurance I gave in reply to the right hon. and learned Member for the Ealing Division (Sir H. Nield) on the 31st October last. As regards temporary women clerks, I decided in October last to continue, pending the Report of the Royal Commission, the pledge given by my predecessor in reply to a question on the 4th December, 1928, from my right hon. Friend the First Commissioner of Works. I am sending my hon. Friend copies of these replies.
Does the hon. Gentleman realise that, in spite of the assurance referred to in his reply, large numbers of young girls are being given permanent posts in the service, while ex-Service men are in a state of insecurity?
Commander Bellairs.
On a point of Order.
What is the point of Order?
I want to ask whether it is not customary to reply to a supplementary question.
I thought that the supplementary question was in the nature of giving information.
In those circumstances, may I give notice that I will take an opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment?
Coal Industry
Bunkers For Fishing And Coasting Vessels (Levy)
43 and 44.
asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) whether it is intended in the final arrangements for the reorganisation of the coal industry to exclude bunkers for fishing vessels from levy;
(2) whether in his proposals for the reorganisation of the coal industry it is intended to exempt bunkers for the coasting trade from levy; and if he is aware that the recognised home-trade limits for coasting shipping include rot only the British coast but the whole of the Continent between the Elbe and Brest and including the River Seine?I would point out to my hon. and gallant Friend that, assuming Clauses 2 (3) (a) and 3 (2) (g) of the Coal Mines Bill are accepted by Parliament, the imposition of a levy will be a matter for decision by the Central Council, that the power given in the Bill is permissive only, and that there are opportunities for arbitration if the power is unfairly used.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is great apprehension in the fishing industry and the coasting trade as to whether the interests of these two hard-hit industries are being safeguarded? Previous experience under the Five Counties scheme does not encourage them.
Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that there is grave apprehension throughout industries of every sort?
That may be, but in the detailed Debate this afternoon the Government, I hope, will be able to remove a great deal of that misapprehension.
Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that during the last coal strike—[HON. MEMBERS: "Lock-out!"]—during the last coal stoppage, it was the common practice for fishing vessels to take their fish to Holland in order that they might get the opportunity of buying cheap coal? Thus trade was taken away from this country.
The circumstances of the coal stoppage were very different. Later in the day, I hope to be able to show the House the safeguards which exist in the matter of bunkering abroad unless the very best conditions are given by the industry in this country.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the last Parliament a rebate under the Freights Rebate Act was given to fishing vessels by Parliament itself, and not left to any Committee?
The de-rating scheme was again a very different proposition. I propose to refer also to that particular topic later this afternoon.
Explosion, Castleford
(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary for Mines whether he has any statement to make with regard to the explosion which took place at the Old Silkstone seam of the Allerton Bywater Colliery, Castleford, near Pontefract, Yorkshire, on Monday, the 10th March?
This explosion occurred about half-past nine yesterday morning in the Old East District of the Silkstone seam. I deeply regret to say that four persons lost their lives and that two others were burnt, one of them very seriously. From preliminary investigations by the Divisional Inspector of Mines, the explosion appears to have followed immediately after the firing of a shot in the coal at the end of a longwall face.
Further investigations are in progress, and will take some time, but I propose to present to the House at the earliest possible moment a full report by the Divisional Inspector on the causes and circumstances of the explosion. I will then consider whether any useful purpose would be served by a formal investigation. The House, I know, will tender to the relatives of the deceased men their fullest sympathy and express their hopes for the speedy recovery of the injured and also their appreciation of the heroism displayed by all those engaged in the work of rescue and recovery.Seeing that we have now had four explosions within the past fortnight, does not the hon. Gentleman think that we are taking more risks in waiting for the absolutely per- fectly automatic gas alarm than we would be if we applied a compulsory order forthwith?
I would ask the hon. Member to wait for the Report. The Department are very much concerned at these continued explosions, and every effort is being made by the inspectors and by the Department to arrive at some conclusion that may make mining more safe.
Will the hon. Gentleman undertake to guarantee to the House that the utmost expedition will be practised in endeavouring to secure what he calls the further test of the automatic alarm which is now in progress?
I can assure the hon. Member that no time will be wasted in arranging the further tests which have been under consideration.
In view of the recurrence of these explosions, will the hon. Gentleman state what extra steps have been taken by his Department beyond those taken in normal times?
I would rather have notice of that question.
In view of the recurring explosions, cannot the hon. Gentleman say that his Department are making special efforts other than would have been made some time ago?
The Department are taking very special steps.
What are they?
In one direction, we are asking owners of collieries to give every assistance possible to the practical improvements of gas detectors, so that thorough practical tests may be made; and we are hoping to have their cooperation, along with the co-operation of those engaged in the trade, to see what useful detectors can be applied.
Does the hon. Gentleman not think that if inspectors underground were confined to the work of inspection, instead of being called upon frequently to do all sorts of onerous jobs, it would help in maintaining the state of the mines?
As far as I am aware, the inspectors are doing inspectors' work, and not extra work as suggested by the hon. Member.
I hope that the Secretary for Mines knows that I mean safety men. If he desires further information, I shall be glad to supply it.
Safety men are different men from inspectors, but I will look into the point which the hon. Member has made.
Post Office
Wireless Telephony
46.
asked the Prime Minister whether in view of the great divergence of opinion in the merits of the various systems of wireless telephony and the Imperial interests involved, he will appoint an independent Committee to investigate the merits and to test the various systems?
I have been asked to reply. I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe (Mr. Bowen) on the 26th February.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the greatest experts in wireless including Senatore Marconi have emphatically stated that the larger aerial is far and away the best, and also that it was the recommendation of the Imperial Wireless and Cable Conference, and will he not have a comparative test made of these systems?
The views of Senatore Marconi were heard and submitted to independent experts.
Is the Post Office then afraid of having a test?
The test which was immediately practicable was made about last May.
Is it the settled policy of the Government to patronise American interests in preference to British?
Voluntary Resignations
61.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury how many civil servants employed by the Post Office have within the last 20 years voluntarily resigned after 20 years', 15 years', 10 years', and five years' service, respectively; whether all these men have been deprived of any payment of any sort in respect of gratuity or superannuation; whether the propriety of withholding these payments under such conditions as these has been considered by his Department; and, if so, when, and with what result?
I am informed by the Postmaster-General that the information asked for in the first part of the question is not available. With regard to the second and third parts of the question, the statutory conditions for an award of a gratuity or a pension under the Superannuation Acts would not be fulfilled if the service were terminated by purely voluntary retirement, and accordingly the answers to both these parts are in the negative. The last part of the question does not arise.
Has the hon. Gentleman received any representations from the Postmaster-General on this subject?
I do not think so.
British Museum (Grants)
47.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is prepared to consider making additional grants to the British Museum to enable it to carry out the home excavation work recommended by the Royal Commission on National Museums and Galleries, in view of the additional employment that would thus be created, as well as the increased attraction to visitors from abroad, if important buried Roman cities, such as Uriconium, were excavated and made permanently available for inspection?
The Treasury have asked the Trustees of the British Museum for their observations on the recommendations of the Royal Commission with regard to excavation work at home.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it would be a good thing to try to make this country a land fit for Americans to visit, in the way indicated?
National Finance
Income Tax
48.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the number of persons in the latest financial year who availed themselves of the allowance of discount for the prepayment of Income Tax under Schedule D assessments according to Section 159 of the Income Tax Act, 1918; and can he give the gross amount so allowed?
The total amount of discount allowed in the last financial year, ended 31st March, 1929, in respect of prepayment of Income Tax under Schedule D, was £619. I regret that I am unable to state the number of persons who availed themselves of this allowance.
Does not my right hon. Friend think that if greater publicity were given to this advantage more people might avail themselves of it?
That is a matter of opinion. I think that the real reason why it is taken advantage of to such a small extent is that it does not pay anybody.
53 and 54.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) whether he will consider extending the exemption from Income Tax under Section 32 of the Finance Act, 1921, to pension funds which provide pensions for the widows of employés, seeing that the payment of this tax makes it-necessary for these funds to restrict their benefits;
(2) if he can estimate the loss to the Exchequer which would be caused by extending the provisions of Section 32 of the Finance Act, 1921, to those pension funds which provide pensions to the widows of employés?I am afraid that I cannot anticipate the Budget Statement or furnish any estimate at the present stage of the cost of such an alteration of the law.
Will the right hon. Gentleman give sympathetic consideration to this matter?
This is a very old question, and has been raised in previous Debates on Finance Bills during the past four or five years. It is a matter to which I certainly will give consideration.
France (British Debt)
51.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount of debt owed by France to this country, remitted up to date, and forming a charge on the British Exchequer?
The net War Debt of France to Great Britain at the date of funding amounted to £600,000,000. On the 5 per cent. tables the present value of the annuities to be paid by France under the Funding Agreement is £227,000,000. On this basis, therefore, the settlement was equivalent to the remission of £373,000,000.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many battleships France will be able to build on this money?
Red Biddy (Duty)
52.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount of duty paid by the Scottish beverage known as red biddy; and what is the total amount of revenue received from this duty?
I understand that the name "Red Biddy" is a term applied locally in certain districts to cheap red wines of either British or foreign origin. It is not a designation known to the Revenue, and I am, therefore, unable to give the particulars asked for.
Are we to understand that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is not collecting duty on this beverage; and are we also to understand that he considers it a teetotal drink?
I am not able to answer the last part of the question, but, in regard to the first part, if it be made from wines, then of course duty is paid.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman know that we were told the other day that some of it is manufactured in this country; that we were also informed that it is very likely that it contains spirits, and will he have careful inquiry made into this matter?