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Civit Estimates, 1937

Volume 326: debated on Monday 26 July 1937

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Class 1

"That a sum, not exceeding £1,388,266, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class 1 of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. House of Lords Offices25,718
2. House of Commons (including a Supplementary sum of £84,300)321,667
3. Expenses under the Representation of the People Acts195,000
5. Privy Council Office8,550
6. Privy Seal Office2,407
7. Charity Commission26,613

£
8. Civil Service Commission11,672
9. Exchequer and Audit Department89,983
10. Friendly Societies' Deficiently5,542
11. Government Actuary22,219
12. Government Chemist53,641
13. Government Hospitality10,641
14. Import Duties Advisory Committee40,729
15. The Mint90
16. National Debt Office2,658
17. National Savings Committee74,997
18. Public Record Office27,323
19. Public Works Loan Commission90
20. Repayments to the Local Loans Fund32,899
21. Royal Commissions, etc.22,500
22. Miscellaneous Expenses30,296
23. Secret Service175,000
24. Treasury Chest Fund618
25. Coronation of His Majesty52,000
26. Tithe Redemption Commission.90
27. Scottish Office (including a Supplementary sum of £50,575)152,476
28. Repayments to the Civil Contingencies Fund3,488
£1,388,266"

Question put, and agreed to.

Class 11

"That a sum, not exceeding £6,056,129, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class 11 of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. Foreign Office84,956
2. Diplomatic and Consular Services (including a Supplementary sum of £189,680)844,997
3. League of Nations74,500
4. Dominions Office38,031
5. Dominion Services433,234
6. Irish Free State Services1,782,752
7. Oversea Settlement26,750
8. Colonial Office114,549

Division No. 308.]

AYES.

[10.12 p.m.

Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.Cranborne, ViscountGuinness, T. L. E. B.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)Craven-Ellis, W.Gunston, Capt. D. W.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.Critchley, A.Guy, J. C. M.
Albery, Sir IrvingCroft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. PageHacking, Rt. Hon. D. H.
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)Crooke, J. S.Hambro, A. V.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C.Hannah, I. C.
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)Croom-Johnson, R. P.Hannon, Sir P. J. H.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Cross, R. H.Harbord, A.
Asks, Sir R. W.Crossley, A. C.Hartington, Marquess of
Assheton, R.Crowder, J. F. E.Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle)
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton)Cruddas, Col. B.Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)
Atholl, Duchess ofCulverwell, C. T.Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.
Baillie, Sir A. W. M.Davidson, ViscountessHeneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J.Davies, C. (Montgomery)Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)Davison, Sir W. H.Hepworth, J.
Balniel, LordDe Chair, S. S.Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)
Barrie, Sir C. C.De la Bère, R.Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)
Beechman, N. A.Denman, Hon. R. D.Herbert, Capt. Sir S. (Abbey)
Beit, Sir A. L.Dodd, J. S.Higgs, W. F.
Bennett, Sir E. N.Doland, G. F.Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon)
Bernays, R. H.Donner, P. W.Holdsworth, H.
Bird, Sir R. B.Drewe, C.Holmes, J. S.
Blair, Sir R.Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)Hopkinson, A.
Boothby, R. J. G.Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.
Bossom, A. C.Dugdale, Captain T. L.Horsbrugh, Florence
Boulton, W. W.Duggan, H. J.Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)
Bower, Comdr. R. T.Dunglass, LordHudson, R. S. (Southport)
Boyce, H. LeslieEastwood, J. F.Hulbert, N. J.
Braithwaite, Major A. N.Eckersley, P. T.Hume, Sir G. H.
Brass, Sir W.Edmondson, Major Sir J.Hunter, T.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G.Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.
Brocklebank, Sir EdmundEllis, Sir G.Joel, D. J. B.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham)Elmley, ViscountJones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)Emery, J. F.Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)Emmott, C. E. G. C.Jones, L. (Swansea W.)
Bull, B. B.Emrys-Evans, P. V.Keeling, E. H.
Bullock, Capt. M.Entwistle, Sir C. F.Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose)
Burghley, LordErrington, E.Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)
Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.Erskine-Hill, A. G.Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)
Burton, Col. H. W.Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)Kimball, L.
Butcher, H. W.Everard, W. L.Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F.
Butler, R. A.Fleming, E. L.Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Campbell, Sir E. T.Fox, Sir G. W. G.Lambert, Rt. Hon. G.
Cartland, J. R. H.Fremantle, Sir F. E.Latham, Sir P.
Cary, R. A.Furness, S. N.Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak)
Castlereagh, ViscountFyfe, D. P. M.Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)Ganzoni, Sir J.Levy, T.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Gledhill, G.Lewis, O.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)Gluckstein, L. H.Liddall, W. S.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n)Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.
Channon, H.Goldie, N. B.Lloyd, G. W.
Chorlton, A. E. L.Goodman, Col. A. W.Locker-Lampoon, Comdr. O. S.
Christie, J. A.Gower, Sir R. V.Loftus, P. C.
Clarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead)Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)Lyons, A. M.
Clarry, Sir ReginaldGrant-Ferris, R.Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Clydesdale, Marquess ofGranville, E. L.MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston)Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.McCorquodale, M. S.
Colman, N. C. D.Gratton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)
Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J.Gridley, Sir A. B.MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)
Conant, Captain R. J. E.Grigg, Sir E. W. M.Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.)Grimston, R. V.McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.)Gritten, W. G. HowardMcKie, J. H.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L.Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)Magnay, T.
Cox, H. B. T.Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.)Maitland, A.

£
9. Colonial and Middle Eastern Services (including a Supplementary sum of £10,000)718,167
10. Colonial Development Fund350,000
11. India and Burma Services1,194,819
12. Imperial War Graves Commission393,374
£6,056,129"

Question put.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 311; Noes, 143.

Makins, Brig.-Gen. E.Rayner, Major R. H.Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.Reed, A. C. (Exeter)Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Markham, S. F.Reid, Captain A. CunninghamSutcliffe, H.
Marsden, Commander A.Reid, W. Allan (Derby)Tasker, Sir R. I.
Maxwell, Hon. S. A.Remer, J. R.Tate, Mavis C.
Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)Taylor, C. S, (Eastbourne)
Mellor, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)Ropner, Colonel L.Thomas, J. P. L.
Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R.Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)Titchfield, Marquess of
Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C.Rowlands, G.Touche, G. C.
Moreing, A. C.Royds, Admiral P. M. R.Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Morgan, R. H.Russell, Sir AlexanderTufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.)Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)Wakefield, W. W.
Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)Salmon, Sir I.Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)Salt, E. W.Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.Samuel, M. R. A.Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Munro, P.Sandys, E. D.Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Nicholson, G. (Farnham)Savery, Sir ServingtonWarrender, Sir V.
Nicolson, Hon. H. G.Scott, Lord WilliamWaterhouse, Captain C.
O'Connor, Sir Terence J.Selley, H. R.Wayland, Sir W. A.
Orr-Ewing, I. L.Shakespeare, G. H.Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Palmer, G. E. H.Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)Wells, S. R.
Patrick, C. M.Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Perkins, W. R. D.Simmonds, O. E.Williams, C. (Torquay)
Peters, Dr. S. J.Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Petherick, M.Smith, L. W. (Hallam)Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Pickthorn, K. W. M.Somerset, T.Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Pilkington, R.Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Plugge, Capt. L. F.Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)Wise, A. R.
Power, Sir J. C.Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.Womersley, Sir W. J.
Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir AsshetonSpears, Brigadier-General E. L.Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Procter, Major H. A.Spens, W. P.Wragg, H.
Radford, E. A.Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'Id)Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Ramsbotham, H.Storey, S.
Ramsden, Sir E.Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Rankin, Sir R.Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)Major Sir George Davies and
Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h)Captain Hope.

NOES.

Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. DykeGeorge, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)Mathers, G.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)Gibson, R. (Greenock)Maxton, J.
Adams, D. (Consett)Green, W. H. (Deptford)Messer, F.
Adamson, W. M.Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.Milner, Major J.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'Isbr.)Grenfell, D. R.Montague, F.
Ammon, C. G.Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)Muff, G.
Banfield, J. W.Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)Nathan, Colonel H. L.
Barnes, A. J.Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)Naylor, T. E.
Barr, J.Harris, Sir P. A.Noel-Baker, P. J.
Batey, J.Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)Oliver, G. H.
Ballenger, F. J.Henderson, J. (Ardwick)Owen, Major G.
Bann, Rt. Hon. W. W.Henderson, T. (Tradeston)Paling, W.
Brown, C. (Mansfield)Hills, A. (Pontefract)Parker, J.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire)Hollins, A.Parkinson, J. A.
Buchanan, G.Hopkin, D.Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.
Burke, W. A.Jagger, J.Price, M. P.
Cape, T.John, W.Pritt, D. N.
Charleton, H. C.Jones, A. C. (Shipley)Quibell, D. J. K.
Chater, D.Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)
Cluse, W. S.Kelly, W. T.Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Cocks, F. S.Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.Ridley, G.
Cove, W. G.Kirby, B. V.Ritson, J.
Daggar, G.Kirkwood, D.Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Dalton, H.Lathan, G.Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)Lawson, J. J.Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)Leach, W.Rothschild, J. A. de
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Leonard, W.Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)
Day, H.Leslie, J. R.Sanders, W. S.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)Logan, D. G.Seely, Sir H. M.
Ede, J. C.Lunn, W.Sexton, T. M.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.)Macdonald, G. (Ince)Shinwell, E.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)McEntee, V. La T.Short, A.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)McGhee, H. G.Silkin, L.
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales)McGovern, J.Silverman, S. S.
Foot, D. M.MacLaren, A.Simpson, F. B.
Frankel, D.Maclean, N.Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Gallagher, W.Mainwaring, W. H.Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Gardner, B. W.Mander, G. le M.Smith, E. (Stoke)
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)Marshall, F.Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'IY)

Smith, T. (Normanton)Walkden, A. G.Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Sorensen, R. W.Walker, J.Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Stephen, C.Watkins, F. C.Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)Watson, W. McL.Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)Welsh, J. C.
Thurtle, E.White, H. GrahamTELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Tinker, J. J.Wilkinson, EllenMr. Groves and Mr. Whiteley.
Viant, S. P.Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)

Class Iii

"That a sum, not exceeding £13,547,192, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Service included in Class 111 of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. Home Office3,851,957
2. Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum48,659
3. Police, England and Wales6,301,188
4. Prisons, England and Wales584,266
5. Approved Schools, etc., England and Wales319,450
6. Supreme Court of judicature, etc.90
7. County Courts90
8. Land Registry90
9. Public Trustee90
10. Law Charges83,421
11. Miscellaneous Legal Expenses8,276

Division No. 309.]

AYES.

10.25 p.m.

Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.Campbell, Sir E. T.Doland, G. F.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)Cartland, J. R. H.Donner, P. W.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.Cary, R. A.Drewe, C.
Albery, Sir IrvingCastlereagh, ViscountDuckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)
Allen, Col. J. Sandman (B'knhead)Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Dugdale, Captain T. L.
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)Duggan, H. J.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n)Dunglass, Lord
Aske, Sir R. W.Channon, H.Eastwood, J. F.
Assheton, R.Chorlton, A. E. L.Eckersley, P. T.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton)Christie, J. A.Edmondson, Major Sir J.
Atholl, Duchess ofClarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead)Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.
Baillie, Sir A. W. M.Clarry, Sir ReginaldEllis, Sir G.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J.Clydesdale, Marquess ofElmley, Viscount
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston)Emery, J, F.
Balniel, LordColman, N. C. D.Emmett, C. E. G. C.
Barrie, Sir C. C.Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J.Emrys-Evans, P. V.
Beechman, N. A.Conant, Captain R. J. E.Entwistle, Sir C. F.
Beit, Sir A. L.Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.)Errington, E.
Bennett, Sir E. N.Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.)Erskine-Hill, A. G.
Bernays, R. H.Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)
Bird, Sir R. B.Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L.Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)
Blair, Sir R.Cox, H. B. T.Everard, W. L.
Boothby, R. J. G.Cranborne, ViscountFleming, E. L.
Bossom, A. C.Craven-Ellis, W.Fox, Sir G. W. G.
Boulton, W. W.Critchley, A.Fremantle, Sir F. E.
Bower, Comdr. R. T.Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. PageFurness, S. N.
Boyce, H. LeslieCrooke, J. S.Fyfe, D. P. M.
Braithwaite, Major A. N.Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C.Ganzoni, Sir J.
Brass, Sir W.Croom-Johnson, R. P.Gledhill, G.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G.Cross, R. H.Gluckstein, L. H.
Brocklebank, Sir EdmundCrossley, A. C.Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham)Crowder, J. F. E.Goldie, N. B.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)Cruddas, Col. B.Goodman, Col. A. W.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)Culverwell, C. T.Gower, Sir R. V.
Bull, B. B.Davidson, ViscountessGraham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)
Bullock, Capt. M.Davies, C. (Montgomery)Grant-Ferris, R.
Burghley, LordDavison, Sir W. H.Granville, E. L.
Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.De Chair, S. S.Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.
Burton, Col. H. W.De la Bère, R.Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.
Butcher, H. W.Denville, AlfredGrigg, Sir E. W. M.
Butler, R. A.Dodd, J. S.Gridley, Sir A. B.

Scotland.
£
12. Police959,482
13. Prisons Department for Scotland158,416
14. Approved Schools, etc.45,650
15. Scottish Land Court5,074
16. Law Charges and Courts of Law32,536
17. Register House, Edinburgh90

Ireland.
18. Northern Ireland Services2,468
19. Supreme Court of Judicature, etc., Northern Ireland4,020
20. Irish Land Purchase Services;1,141,879
£13,547,192"

Question put.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 318; Noes, 142.

Grimston, R. V.MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)Salt, E. W.
Gritten, W. G. HowardMacdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)Samuel, M. R. A.
Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.Sandys, E. D.
Guinness, T. L. E. B.McKie, J. H.Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Gunston, Capt. D. W.Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees)Savery, Sir Servington
Guy, J. C. M.Magnay, T.Scott, Lord William
Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H.Maitland, A.Selley, H. R.
Hambro, A. V.Makins, Brig.-Gen. E.Shakespeare, G. H.
Hannah, I. C.Marsden, Commander A.Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Hannon, Sir P. J. H.Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Harbord, A.Markham, S. F.Simmonds, O. E.
Hartington, Marquess ofMason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)Maxwell, Hon. S. A.Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.Somerset, T.
Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-Moore, Lieut.-Colonel Sir T. C. R.Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Hepworth, J.Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C.Spens, W. P.
Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)Moreing, A. C.Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'Id)
Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)Morgan, R. H.Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Herbert, Capt. Sir S. (Abbey)Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.)Storey, S.
Higgs, W. F.Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon)Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)Strauss, H. G.(Norwich)
Holdsworth, H.Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h)
Holmes, J. S.Munro, P.Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Hopkinson, A.Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.Nicholson, G. (Farnham)Sutcliffe, H.
Horsbrugh, FlorenceNicolson, Hon. H. G.Tasker, Sir R. I.
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)O'Connor, Sir Terence J.Tate, Mavis C.
Hudson, R. S. (Southport)Orr-Ewing, I. L.Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Hulbert, N. J.Palmer, G. E. H.Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Hume, Sir G. H.Patrick, C. M.Thomas, J. P. L.
Hunter, T.Peake, O.Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.Perkins, W. R. D.Titchfield, Marquess of
Joel, D. J. B.Peters, Dr. S. J.Touche, G. C.
Jones, Sir C. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)Petherick, M.Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)Pickthorn, K. W. M.Tufnell, Lieut,-Commander R. L.
Jones, L. (Swansea W.)Pilkington, R.Wakefield, W. W.
Keeling, E. H.Plugge, Capt. L. F.Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose)Ponsonby, Col. C. E.Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)Power, Sir J. C.Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir AsshetonWard, Irene M. B.(Wallsend)
Kimball, L.Procter, Major H. A.Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F.Radford, E. A.Warrender, Sir V.
Lamb, Sir J. Q.Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.Waterhouse, Captain C.
Lambert, Rt. Hon. G.Ramsbotham, H.Wayland, Sir W. A
Latham, Sir P.Ramsden, Sir E.Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak)Rankin, Sir R.Wells, S. R.
Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Leighton, Major B. E. P.Rayner, Major R. H.Williams, C. (Torquay)
Levy, T.Reed, A. C. (Exeter)Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Lewis, O.Reid, Captain A. CunninghamWilloughby de Eresby, Lord
Liddall, W. S.Reid, W. Allan (Derby)Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Lindsay, K. M.Remer, J. R.Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J JRickards, G. W. (Skipton)Wise, A. R.
Lloyd, G. W.Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)Womersley, Sir W. J.
Locker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S.Ropner, Colonel L.Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Loftus, P. C.Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)Wragg, H.
Lovat-Fraser, J. A.Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Lyons, A. M.Rowlands, G.Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)Royds, Admiral P. M. R.
MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.Russell, Sir AlexanderTELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
McCorquodale, M. S.Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)Major Sir George Davies and
MacDonald. Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)Salmon, Sir I.Captain Hope.

NOES.

Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. DykeBuchanan, G.Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)Burke, W. A.Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales)
Adams, D. (Consett)Cape, T.Foot, D. M.
Adamson, W. M.Chater, D.Frankel, D.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'Isbr.)Cluse, W. S.Gallacher, W.
Ammon, C. G.Cocks, F. S.Gardner, B. W.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)Cove, W. G.George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.Dagger, G.George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)
Banfield, J. W.Dalton, H.Gibson, R. (Greenock)
Barnes, A. J.Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)Green, W. H. (Deptford)
Barr, J.Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.
Batey, J.Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Grenfell, D. R.
Bellenger, F. J.Day, H.Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)
Brown, C. (Mansfield)Ede, J. C.Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire)Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.)Groves, T. E.

Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)Maxton, J.Shinwell, E.
Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)Messer, F.Short, A.
Harris, Sir P. A.Milner, Major J.Silkin, L.
Henderson, J. (Ardwick)Montague, F.Silverman, S. S.
Henderson, T. (Tradeston)Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)Simpson, F. B.
Hills, A. (Pontefract)Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Hollins, A.Muff, G.Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Hopkin, D.Nathan, Colonel H. L.Smith, E. (Stoke)
Jagger, J.Naylor, T. E.Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)Noel-Baker, P. JSmith, T. (Normanton)
John, W.Oliver, G. H.Sorensen, R. W.
Jones, A. C. (Shipley)Owen, Major G.Stephen, C.
Kelly, W. T.Paling, W.Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.Parker, J.Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Kirby, B. V.Parkinson, J. A.Thurtle, E.
Kirkwood, D.Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.Tinker, J. J.
Lathan, G.Price, M. P.Viant, S. P.
Lawson, J. J.Pritt, D. N.Walkden, A. G.
Leach, W.Quibell, D. J. K.Walker, J.
Leonard, W.Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)Watkins, F. C.
Leslie, J. R.Richards, R. (Wrexham)Watson, W. McL.
Logan, D. G.Ridley, G.Welsh, J. C.
Lunn, W.Riley, B.White, H. Graham
Macdonald, G. (Ince)Ritson, J.Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
McEntee, V. La T.Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)Wilkinson, Ellen
McGhee, H. G.Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
McGovern, J.Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)Williams, T. (Don Valley)
MacLaren, A.Rothschild, J. A. deWindsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Maclean, N.Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Mainwaring, W. H.Sanders, W. S.Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Mander, G. le M.Seely, Sir H. M.
Marshall, F.Sexton. T. M.TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Charleton and Mr. Mathers.

Class Iv

"That a sum, not exceeding £40,065,927 be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services include in Class IV of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. Board of Education (including a Supplementary Sum of £177,000)31,538,959
2. British Museum106,949

3. British Museum (Natural History)72,508
4. Imperial War Museum8,345
5. London Museum3,764
6. National Gallery17,187
7. National Maritime Museum8,060

Division No. 310.]

AYES.

[10.36 p.m.

Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.Boulton, W. W.Channon, H.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)Bower, Comdr. R. T.Chorlton, A. E. L.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.Boyce, H. LeslieChristie, J. A.
Albery, Sir IrvingBraithwaite, Major A. N.Clarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)Brass, Sir W.Clarry, Sir Reginald
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.Briscoe, Capt. R. G.Clydesdale, Marquess of
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)Brocklebank, Sir EdmundCobb, Captain E. C. (Preston)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham)Colfox, Major W. P.
Aske, Sir R. W.Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)Colman, N. C. D.
Assheton, R.Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton)Bull, B. B.Conant, Captain R. J. E.
Atholl, Duchess ofBullock, Capt. M.Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.)
Baillie, Sir A. W. M.Burghley, LordCooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.)
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J.Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)Burton, Col. H. W.Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L.
Balniel, LordButcher, H. W.Cox, H. B. T.
Barrie, Sir C. C.Butler, R. A.Cranborne, Viscount
Beechman, N. A.Campbell, Sir E. T.Craven-Ellis, W.
Beit, Sir A. L.Cortland, J. R. H.Critchley, A.
Bennett, Sir E. N.Cary, R. A.Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page
Bernays, R. H.Castlereagh, ViscountCrooke, J. S.
Bird, Sir R. B.Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)Crookshank, Capt. H, F. C.

Blair, Sir R.Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Croom-Johnson, R. P.
Boothby, R. J. G.Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)Cross, R. H.
Bossom, A. C.Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n)Crossley, A. C.

£
8. National Portrait Gallery6,034
9. Wallace Collection7,402
10. Scientific Investigation, etc.142,992
11. Universities and Colleges, Great Britain1,255,000
12. Broadcasting2,360,000

Scotland.
13. Public Education4,529,216
14. National Galleries7,245
15. National Library2,266
£40,065,927"

Question put.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 316; Noes, 139.

Crowder, J. F. E.Hudson, R. S. (Southport)Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Cruddas, Col. B.Hulbert, N. J.Rayner, Major R. H.
Davidson, ViscountessHume, Sir G. H.Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Davies, C. (Montgomery)Hunter, T.Reid, Captain A. Cunningham
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil)James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Davison, Sir W. H.Joel, D. J. B.Remer, J. R.
De Chair, S. S.Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
De la Bère, R.Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Denville, AlfredJones, L. (Swansea W.)Ropner, Colonel L.
Dodd, J. S.Keeling, E. H.Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)
Doland, G. F.Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose)Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Donner, P. WKerr, H. W. (Oldham)Rowlands, G.
Drewe, C.Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)Royds, Admiral P. M. R.
Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)Kimball, L.Russell, Sir Alexander
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F.Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Duggan, H. J.Lamb, Sir J. Q.Salmon, Sir I.
Dunglass, LordLambert, RI. Hon. G.Salt, E. W.
Eastwood, J. F.Latham, Sir P.Samuel, M. R. A.
Eckersley, P. T.Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak)Sandys, E. D.
Edmondson, Major Sir J.Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.Leighton, Major B. E. P.Savery, Sir Servington
Ellis, Sir G.Levy, T.Scott, Lord William
Elmley, ViscountLewis, O.Selley, H. R.
Emery, J. F.Liddall, W. S.Shakespeare. G. H.
Emmott, C. E. G. C.Lindsay, K. M.Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Emrys-Evans, P. V.Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Entwistle, Sir C. F.Lloyd, G. W.Simmonds, O. E.
Errington, E.Locker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S.Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Erskine-Hill, A. G.Loftus, P. C.Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)Lovat-Fraser, J. A.Somerset, T.
Everard, W. L.Lyons, A. M.Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Findlay, Sir E.Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Fleming, E. L.MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Fox, Sir G. W. G.McCorquodale, M. S.Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Fremantle, Sir F. E.MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)Spans, W. P.
Furness, S. N.MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'I'd)
Fyfe, D. P. M.Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Ganzoni, Sir J.McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.Storey, S.
Gledhill, G.McKie, J. H.Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Gluckstein, L. H.Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees)Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.Magnay, T.Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h)
Goldie, N. B.Maitland, A.Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Goodman, Col. A. W.Makins, Brig.- Gen. E.Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Gower, Sir R. V.Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.Sutcliffe, H.
Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)Markham, S. F.Tasker, Sir R. I.
Grant-Ferris, R.Marsden, Commander A.Tate, Mavis C.
Granville, E. L.Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Gratton-Doyle, Sir N.Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Groton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)Thomas, J. P. L.
Gridley, Sir A. B.Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Grigg, Sir E. W. M.Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)Titchfield, Marquess of
Gritten, W. G. HowardMoore, Lieut.- Col. Sir T. C. R.Touche, G. C.
Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C.Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)Moreing, A. C.Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Guinness, T. L. E. B.Morgan, R. H.Wakefield, W. W.
Gunston, Capt. D. W.Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.)Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Guy, J. C. M.Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H.Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Hannah, I. C.Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Hannon, Sir P. J. H.Munro, P.Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Hambro, A. V.Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.Warrender, Sir V.
Harbord, A.Nicholson, G. (Farnham)Waterhouse, Captain C.
Harlington, Marquess ofNicolson, Hon. H. G.Wayland, Sir W. A
Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)O'Connor, Sir Terence J.Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)Orr-Ewing, I. L.Wells, S. R.
Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)Palmer, G. E. H.Wickham, Lt,-Col. E. T. R.
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.Patrick, C. M.Williams, C. (Torquay)
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.Peaks, O.Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-Perkins, W. R. D.Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Hepworth, J.Peters, Dr. S. J.Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)Pickthorn, K. W. M.Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)Pilkington, R.Wise, A. R.
Herbert, Capt. Sir S. (Abbey)Plugge, Capt. L. F.Womersley, Sir W. J.
Higge, W. F.Ponsonby, Col. C. E.Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon)Power, Sir J. C.Wragg, H.
Holdsworth, H.Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir AsshetonWright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Holmes, J. S.Procter, Major H. A.Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.Radford, E. A.
Hopkinson, A.Ramsbotham, H.TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.Ramsden, Sir E.Captain Dugdale and Mr.
Horsbrugh, FlorenceRankin, Sir R.Grimston.
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)

NOES.

Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. DykeGriffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)Price, M. P.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)Pritt, D. N.
Adams, D. (Consett)Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)Quibell, D. J. K.
Adamson, W. M.Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'Isbr.)Harris, Sir P. A.Ridley, G.
Ammon, C. G.Henderson, J. (Ardwick)Riley, B.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)Henderson, T. (Tradeston)Ritson, J.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.Hills, A. (Pontefract)Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Banfield, J. W.Hollins, A.Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Barnes, A. J.Hopkin, D.Rothschild, J. A. de
Barr, J.Jagger, J.Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)
Batey, J.Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)Sanders, W. S.
Bellenger, F. J.Jones, A. C. (Shipley)Seely, Sir H. M.
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.Kelly, W. T.Sexton. T. M.
Brown, C. (Mansfield)Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.Shinwell, E.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire)Kirby, B. V.Short, A.
Buchanan, G.Kirkwood, D.Silkin, L.
Burke, W. A.Lathan, G.Silverman, S. S.
Cape, T.Leach, W.Simpson, F. B.
Charleton, H. C.Leonard, W.Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Chater, D.Leslie, J. R.Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Cluse, W. S.Lunn, W.Smith, E. (Stoke)
Cocks, F. S.Macdonald, G. (Ince)Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Cove, W. G.McEntee, V. La T.Smith, T. (Normanton)
Dagger, G.McGhee, H. G.Sorensen, R. W.
Dalton, H.McGovern, J.Stephen, C.
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)MacLaren, A.Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'.ng)
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)Mainwaring, W. H.Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Mander, G. le M.Thurtle, E.
Day, H.Marshall, F.Tinker, J. J.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)Mathers, G.Viant, S. P.
Ede, J. C.Maxton, J.Walkden, A. G.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.)Messer, F.Walker, J.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)Milner, Major J.Watkins, F. C.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)Montague, F.Watson, W. McL.
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales)Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)Welsh, J. C.
Foot, D. M.Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)White, H. Graham
Frankel, D.Muff, G.Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
Gallacher, W.Nathan, Colonel H. L.Wilkinson, Ellen
Gardner, B. W.Naylor, T. E.Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)Noel-Baker, P. J.Williams, T. (Don Valley)
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)Oliver, G. H.Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Gibson, R. (Greenock)Owen, Major G.Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Green, W. H. ((Deptford)Paling, W.Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.Parker, J.
Grenfell, D. R.Parkinson, J. A.TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.Mr. John and Mr. Groves.

Class V

"That a sum, not exceeding £110,562,476, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class V of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. Ministry of Health16,093,846
1A. Grants to Public Assistance Authorities (England an Wales)10,000
2. Board of Control94,771
3. Registrar-General's Office64,717
4. National Insurance Audit Department111,560
5. Friendly Societies Registry32,090
6. Old Age Pensions28,719,000
7. Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions10,000,000
8. Ministry of Labour14,338,000
9. Grants in respect of Employment Schemes2,550,000
10. Commissioner for Special Areas (England and Wales) (including a Supplementary sum of £10)100

11. Unemployment Assistance Board (including a Supplementary sum of £110,000)33,370,000
12. Special Areas Fund2,500,000
12A. Financial Assistance in Special and other Areas Scotland.301,047
13. Department of Health2,348,501
14. Board of Control10,831
15. Registrar-General's Office11,913
16. Commissioner for Special Areas (Scotland) (including a Supplementary sum of £10)100
17. Grants to Public Assistance Authorities6,000
£110,562,476"

Question put, and agreed to.

Class Vi

"That a sum, not exceeding £26,654,368, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class VI of the Civil Estimates, namely:—

£
1. Board of Trade205,532
2. Mercantile Marine Services
3. Assistance to British Shipping8,510
4. Department of Overseas Trade312,942
5. Export Credits90
7. Office of Commissioners of Crown Lands24,574
8. Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries (including a Supplementary sum of £204,850)1,571,901
9. Beet Sugar Subsidy, Great Britain2,249,900
10. Milk (England and Wales and Northern Ireland) (including a Supplementary sum of £248,000)372,000
11. Livestock Industry and Cattle Fund3,328,967
11A. Land Fertility Improvement864,100
12. Surveys of Great Britain218,875
13. Forestry Commission550,000
14. Ministry of Transport130,942
15. Roads, etc.24,500,000
16. Development Fund415,000
17. Development Grants580,830.
18. Department of Scientific and Industrial Research437,850
19. State Management Districts90
20. Clearing Offices90
Scotland.
21. Department of Agriculture (including a Supplementary sum of £18,880)426,854
22. Milk (including a Supplementary sum of £10)71,110
23. Fishery Board for Scotland83,080
24. Herring Industry35,000
£26,654,368"

Question put, and agreed to.

Class Vii

"That a sum, not exceeding £4,445,451, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class VII of the Civil Estimates, namely:—

£
1. Art and Science Buildings, Great Britain216,575
2. Houses of Parliament Buildings87,170
3. Labour and Health Buildings, Great Britain85,540
4. Miscellaneous Legal Buildings, Great Britain8,540
5. Osborne8,130
6. Office of Works and Public Buildings310,830
7. Public Buildings, Great Britain (including a Supplementary sum of £13,0001,142,680

£
9. Royal Palaces83,160
11. Royal Parks and Pleasure Gardens151, 040
12. Rates on Government Property944,435
13. Stationery and Printing1,111,981
14. Peterhead Harbour21,000
15. Works and Buildings in Ireland22,380
£4,445,451"

Question put, and agreed to.

Crass Viii

"That a sum, not exceeding £27,387,625, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class VIII of the Civil Estimates, namely:—

£
1. Merchant Seamen's War Pensions179,997
2. Ministry of Pensions25,300,000
3. Royal Irish Constabulary Pensions, etc.814,415
4. Superannuation and Retired Allowances1,093,213
£27,387,625"

Question put, and agreed to.

Class Ix

"That a sum, not exceeding £33,592,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class IX of the Civil Estimates, namely:

£
1. Exchequer Contributions to Local Revenues, England and Wales29,002,000
2. Exchequer Contributions to Local Revenues, Scotland4,590,000
£33,592,000"

Question put, and agreed to.

Revenue Departments Estimates, 1937

"That a sum, not exceeding £55,524,600, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Services included in the Estimates for Revenue Departments, namely:

£
1. Customs and Excise3,873,100
2. Inland Revenue5,323,500
3. Post Office46,328,000
£55,524,600"

Question put, and agreed to.

NAVY ESTIMATES, 1937.

"That a sum, not exceeding £47,944,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Navy Services, namely:

£
3. Medical Establishments and Services411,400
4. Fleet Air Arm4,200,000
5. Educational Services207,500
6. Scientific Services586,000
7. Royal Naval Reserves373,300
8. Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc.:

Division No. 311.]

AYES.

[10.50 p.m.

Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. DykeCourthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L.Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)Cox, H. B. T.Grigg, Sir E. W. M.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.Cranborne, ViscountGrimston, R. V.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)Craven-Ellis, W.Gritten, W. G. Howard
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.Critchley, A.Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)
Albery, Sir IrvingCroft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. PageGuest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)Crooke, J. S.Guinness, T. L. E. B.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C.Gunston, Capt. D. W.
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)Croom-Johnson, R. P.Guy, J. C. M.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J.Cross, R. H.Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H.
Aske, Sir R. W.Crossley, A. C.Hambro, A. V.
Assheton, R.Crowder, J. F. E.Hannah, I. C.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton)Cruddas, Col. B.Hannon, Sir P. J. H.
Baillie, Sir A. W. M.Culverwell, C. T.Harbord, A.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J.Davidson, ViscountessHarris, Sir P. A.
Balniel, LordDavies, C. (Montgomery)Hartington, Marquess of
Barrie, Sir C. C.Davison, Sir W. H.Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)
Beechman, N. A.De Chair, S. S.Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)
Beit, Sir A. L.De la B¸re, R.Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.
Bennett, Sir E. N.Denville, AlfredHeneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.
Bernays, R. H.Dodd, J. S.Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-
Bird, Sir R. B.Doland, G. F.Hepworth, J.
Blair, Sir R.Donner, P. W.Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)
Boothby, R. J. G.Drewe, C.Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)
Bossom, A. C.Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)Herbert, Capt. Sir S. (Abbey)
Boulton, W. W.Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)Higgs, W. F.
Bower, Comdr. R. T.Duggan, H. J.Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon)
Boyce, H. LeslieDunglass, LordHoldsworth, H.
Braithwaite, Major A. N.Eastwood, J. F.Holmes, J. S.
Brass, Sir W.Eckersley, P. T.Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G.Edmondson, Major Sir J.Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.
Brocklebank, Sir EdmundElliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.Horsbrugh, Florence
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham)Ellis, Sir G.Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)Elmley, ViscountHudson, R. S. (Southport)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)Emery, J. F.Hulbert, N. J.
Bull, B. B.Emmott, C. E. G. C.Hume, Sir G. H.
Bullock, Capt. M.Emrys-Evans, P. V.Hunter, T.
Burghley, LordEntwistle, Sir C. F.James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.
Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.Errington, E.Joel, D. J. B.
Burton, Col. H. W.Erskine-Hill, A. G.Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)
Butcher, H. W.Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Butler, R. A.Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales)Jones, L. (Swansea W.)
Campbell, Sir E. T.Everard, W. L.Keeling, E. H.
Cartland, J. R. H.Findlay, Sir E.Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose)
Cary, R. A.Fleming, E. L.Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)
Cary, R. A.Foot, D. M.Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)
Castlereagh, ViscountFox, Sir G. W. G.Kimball, L.
Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)Furness, S. N.Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)Fyfe, D. P. M.Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenhem)Ganzoni, Sir J.Lambert, Rt. Hon. G.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n)George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)Latham, Sir P.
Channon, H.George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak)
Chorlton, A. E. L.Gledhill, G.Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)
Christie, J. A.Gluckstein, L. H.Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Clarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead)Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.Levy, T.
Clarry, Sir ReginaldGoldie, N. B.Lewis, O.
Clydesdale, Marquess ofGoodman, Col. A. W.Liddell, W. S.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston)Gower, Sir R. V.Lindsay, K. M.
Colman, N. C. D.Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.
Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J.Grant-Ferris, R.Lloyd, C. W.
Conant, Captain R. J. E.Granville, E. L.Looker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S.
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.)Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.Loftus, P. C.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.)Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.Lovat-Fraser, J. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)Gridley, Sir A. B.Lyons, A. M.

£
Section I.—Personnel8,583,000
Section II.—Matériel8,878,700
Section III.—Contract Work14,662,800
9. Naval Armaments7,769,700
11. Miscellaneous Effective Services812,600
12. Admiralty Office1,459,000
£47,944,000"

Question put.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 326; Noes, 9.

Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)Power, Sir J. C.Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir AsshetonStewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
McCorquodale, M. S.Procter, Major H. A.Storey, S.
MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)Radford, E. A.Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)Ramsbotham, H.Strauss, H. G, (Norwich)
Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)Ramsden, Sir E.Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h)
McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.Rankin, Sir R.Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
McKie, J. H.Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees)Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)Sutcliffe, H.
Magnay, T.Rayner, Major R. H.Tasker, Sir R. I.
Maitland, A.Reed, A. C. (Exeter)Tate, Mavis C.
Makins, Brig.-Gen. E.Reid, Captain A. CunninghamTaylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Mander, G. le M.Reid, W. Allan (Derby)Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.Remer, J. R.Thomas, J. P. L.
Markham, S. F.Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Marsden, Commander A.Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)Titchfield, Marquess of
Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.Ropner, Colonel L.Touche, G. C.
Maxwell, Hon. S. A.Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Mellor, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)Rothschild, J. A. deWakefield, W. W.
Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)Rowlands, G.Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)Royds, Admiral P. M. R.Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R.Russell, Sir AlexanderWard, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C.Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Moreing, A. C.Salmon, Sir I.Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Morgan, R. H.Salt, E. W.Warrender, Sir V.
Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.)Samuel, M. R. A.Waterhouse. Captain C.
Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)Sandys, E. D.Wayland, Sir W. A
Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.Savery, Sir ServingtonWells, S. R.
Munro, P.Scott, Lord WilliamWhite, H. Graham
Neven-Spence, Major B. H H.Seely, Sir H. M.Wickham, Lt.-Col, E. T. R.
Nicholson, G. (Farnham)Selley, H. R.Williams, C. (Torquay)
Nicolson, Hon. H. G.Shakespeare, G. H.Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)

O'Connor, Sir Terence J.Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)Willoughby do Eresby, Lord
Orr-Ewing, I. L.Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Owen, Major G.Simmonds, O. E.Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Patrick, C. M.Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)Wise, A. R.
Peake, O.Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)Womersley, Sir W. J.
Perkins, W. R. D.Smith, L. W. (Hallam)Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Peters, Dr. S. J.Somerset, T.Wragg, H.
Petherick, M.Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Pickthorn, K. W. M.Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Pilkington, R.Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Plugge, Capt. L. F.Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Ponsonby, Col. C. E.Spans, W. P.Major Sir George Davies and
aptain Dugdale.

NOES.

Barr, J.McGovern, J.Silverman, S. S.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Maxton, J.
Gallacher, W.Messer, F.TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
McGhee, H. G.Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)Mr. Buchanan and Mr. Stephen.

On a point of Order. I wish to ask your Ruling as to whether it is in order for hon. Members to shout "No" and vote "Aye"?

The hon. Member should have raised that point before the figures were announced from the Chair. The Rule of the House is that a Member is bound by his voice. The figures having once been announced from the Chair, it is now too late to correct them.

Army Estimates, 1937

"That a sum, not exceeding £31,436,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Army Services, namely:

£
3. Medical Services1,055,000
4. Educational Establishments1,053,000
5. Quartering and Movements1,909,000
6. Supplies, Road Transport and Remounts6,005,000
7. Clothing1,565,000
8. General Stores2,923,000
9. Warlike Stores15,880,000
12. War Office1,046,000
£31,436,000"

Question put,

The Committee proceeded to a Division and The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN stated that he thought the "Ayes" had it; and on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was unnecessarily claimed, and he accordingly called upon the Members who supported and who challenged his decision successively to rise in their places, and he declared the

" Ayes" had it, eleven Members only who challenged his decision having stood up.

Air Estimates, 1937

"That a sum, not exceeding £10,177,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for Expenditure in respect of the Air Services, namely:

£
2. Quartering, Stores (except Technical), Supplies and Transportation4,476,000
5. Medical Services439,000
6. Technical Training and Educational Services741,000
7. Auxiliary and Reserve Forces1,360,000
9. Meteorological and Miscellaneous Effective Services1,429,000
10. Air Ministry1,250,000
11. Half-pay, Pensions, and other Non-Effective Services482,000
£10,177,000"

Question put.

The Committee proceeded to a Division and The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN stated that he thought the "Ayes" had it; and on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was unnecessarily claimed, and he accordingly called upon the Members who supported and who challenged his decision successively to rise in their places and he declared the "Ayes" had it eleven Members only who challenged his decision having stood up.

On a point of Order. Are we not entitled to get the numbers of the "Ayes" and the "Noes"?

The numbers of those who contested my decision will be recorded in the Journals of the House.

I could see no indication that the number of Members who stood up on either side was being taken, and it was because I myself was not satisfied that I challenged the declaration that the "Ayes" had it.

The hon. Member may challenge the declaration, but I assure him that the number of those who rose in support of the "Noes" has been taken, and will appear in the Votes and Proceedings.

It does not seem to me that it is sufficient that the number of the "Noes" should be recorded. We should also know the number of the "Ayes" and the number who abstained.

Is it not an unwritten law that at least the number of those who stand up should be announced to the House? Since when has that been departed from?

So far as I am aware, the numbers have never been announced from the Chair.

Only the other night our numbers were counted as being three, and mentioned specifically as three, and I put it to you, with respect, that the same thing ought to be done to-night, that the numbers of the Noes ought to be counted and ought to be announced from the Chair. May I put this further, that the only opportunity that I can get of challenging whether or not the figures are correct is not to-morrow, but immediately the figures are announced, and I put it to you that if the figures are wrongly announced, my only hope of challenging them will be taken away unless they are immediately announced following the Division.

If the hon. Member will be good enough to look at Standing Order 31, he will see that the question as to whether or not I permit a Division is one that is solely in my discretion. On this occasion I did think the decision was plain, and when the Members of the House rose, my decision was obviously supported. It has never been the practice of the Chairman to announce the figures on these occasions, and I see no reason for departing from that.

How am I to challenge the figures that will be put in the Journals, whether they are right or wrong, unless I am given the opportunity of knowing the figures now? Secondly, why is it that in the House only the other night our numbers were recorded from the Chair?

With regard to the hon. Member's second point, I was not in the House myself at the moment when the incident occurred, but the information that I have received is that they were not recorded. I am not in a position either to verify or dispute that statement from my personal knowledge. With regard to the other point, I imagine the hon. Member will have the opportunity of raising the matter in the House when the figures are published.

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.

Committee to sit again To-morrow.

Ways And Means

Considered in Committee.

[Sir DENNIS HERBERT in the Chair.]

Resolved,

"That towards making good the Supply granted to His Majesty for the Service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, the sum of £410,503,155 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—[Lieut.-Colonel Colville.]

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

Committee to sit again To-morrow.

ELECTRICITY (SUPPLY) ACTS.

Resolved,

"That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1936, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, and the Public Works Facilities Act, 1930, in respect of the parish of Castleton, in the county of Roxburgh, which was presented on the 1st day of July, 1937, be approved."—[Captain Hudson.]

Gas Undertakings Acts 1920 To 1934

Resolved,

"That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 5920 to 1934, on the application of the Brigg Urban District Council, which was presented on the 29th day of June and published, be approved."

Resolved,

"That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 to 1934, on the application of the Hemsworth Grimethorpe and District Gas Company, Limited, which was presented on the 29th day of June and published, be approved."

Resolved,

"That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 to 1934, on the application of the Iron Bridge and District Gas Company, Limited, which was presented on the 6th day of July and published, be approved."—[Captain Wallace.]

Coal Mines (Employment Of Boys) Bill

Order read for Consideration of Lords Amendments.

11.17 p.m.

While we do not want to lose this Bill, we feel we ought to take the opportunity of saying that the Lords have done a great injustice to the House of Commons in altering the Bill that we sent to them. We will, of course, endeavour to see that boys are kept as little as possible in the mines underground during the night hours, and we feel that, as there have been so many expressions in this House that it is in favour of boys not being kept in the mines for such a long period, the other place ought to have agreed to this to to 6 instead of reverting to the 10 to 5 period. We feel we must express strongly our deep regret at this alteration and the fact that the Lords have interfered with the business of the House of Commons.

Question, "That the Lords Amendments be now considered," put, and agreed to.

Lords Amendments considered accordingly.

Clause 1—(Hours Of Employment In Coal Mines For Boys)

Lords Amendment: In page 1, line 6, at the beginning, insert:

"In relation to every mine, being a coal mine, there shall be specified in a notice affixed at the mine by the manager a period of at least seven consecutive hours between the hours of ten at right and six on the following morning and during that period."

11.19 p.m.

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment." I do not want to dwell on the past. We all know that less than 100 years ago there was a Royal Commission sitting on conditions in coal mines, and that before that Commission there appeared a boy of seven who had been working in coal mines for three years and a girl of six who had been working in a mine for 18 months. I do not want to dwell on the past; I want to look to the future. I do not want to yield to sentimentalists. The Bill was introduced to remove an anomaly, and only for that purpose. I did not mean to reform the whole coal industry, and I feel that the Bill as it stands is what I meant it to be, whereas when it left this House to go to another place it really did take a step which would have reformed the whole of the industry. The Bill as it stands is supported by the Miners' Federation of Great Britain and is not opposed by the coal-owners. The original Bill prohibited employment during the night between the hours of 10 and 5. The hour of 5 was amended by a Committee of this House to 6. No objection in theory was raised against the hour of 6 by myself or the Secretary for Mines, but it was brought out that difficulties would arise in the actual working of the mines. On Report I moved an Amendment which was not perhaps worded as it should have been and it was not pressed. The Bill was sent to another place and there an Amendment was introduced which embodied the material points of the Amendment which I had intended to introduce in this House. That Amendment has been accepted by myself as the Mover of the Bill and by the Secretary for Mines, and it provides the elasticity which we had hoped would be provided for in this Bill. I repeat that the Bill was intended to remove a certain anomaly.

I would remind the House that boys under 16 may work underground during the night time but they may not work overground during the night time. I say again, as I said on the Report stage, that I, as a Member for a south coast resort, would not dream of introducing a Bill about an industry of which I know very little unless it were to bring about some reform in the industry which was agreed by all to be necessary. I represent Eastbourne. As I have said before, the sun always shines in Eastbourne, so much so that the Secretary for Mines spends many a holiday there, and as the summer holidays are coming on no doubt many other Members will also go there. I hope that the Opposition will not challenge this Bill to-night, because although it does not go so far as they want it to go I feel sure they would not want to lose it merely for the sake of adding an extra hour to the hours specified in it.

11.25 p.m.

It is true that the Bill is better than nothing, but it is a poor, weakly thing. It is true that the Miners' Federation have agreed to it, but on the same grounds that we are agreeing to it. We cannot get anything better. It is equally true that when the Ball came before this House and before the Committee, this House and the Committee thought that 6 o'clock was much better than 5 o'clock and said so unanimously. It has been left for the other House to bring it back to 5 o'clock. That is a measure of their consideration for the children of the poor.

My last point is that we have been discussing mines to-day, and that the figures quoted have shown that the accidents to children from 14 to 16 years of age, both killed and seriously injured, are twice as high as for adults over 18 years of age. Yet in spite of that, we are to have this penalty. The hon. Member should have made it 6 o'clock instead of 5 o'clock. Do hon. Members realise that this will mean that children of 14 will have to be at the mines so early, that it will be necessary for them to be out of bed before 4 o'clock in the morning?

11.26 p.m.

May I as the one who moved the Amendment to make the hour 7 ask whether it is a fact that the Mineworkers' Federation agreed to the figure which my hon. Friend now suggests, long before the Bill came before the Committee upstairs? If so, I should like to know the circumstances in which they arrived at that figure.

11.27 p.m.

I am sorry that the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. C. S. Taylor) is taking this line. I was one of those who supported him in bringing the Bill forward, as I believed that he wanted to do something for the mining industry. This has been one of the anomalies for a long time, and, as one of my hon. Friends said, the system has been cockeyed. That is quite a good definition of what has been taking place. Boys of 16 years of age have been working on the surface, but not at night time, but boys underground could work at night time. The Committee decided that the hours from 10 to 6 should be put into the Bill, It appears to be altogether wrong that we should be considering now agreeing to this Lords Amendment. On both sides of the Committee to-night, the question of boy labour in the mines has been discussed, and it has been felt that no boy under the age of 16 years ought to be in the mines at all, yet now we are proposing to agree that boys can work during the night between 10 and 6, at certain times. That seems altogether wrong. To those who believe in democracy it seems wrong that the other place can take advantage of the time, so to speak, and can say: "It is the end of the session, and if you do not accept this Amendment, whatever little advantage it gives will go by the board." It is a kind of threat to the House of Commons. If a Division is forced, I shall go into the Lobby against the proposal to agree to the Lords Amendment.

I hope the House of Lords will take note. It is a deathknell to the House of Lords to try to carry this kind of thing on.

11.29 p.m.

Might I ask the hon. Gentleman a question before he sits down? I moved the original Amendment upstairs, and I want to know whether it is a fact that the Mine Workers' Federation agreed to five o'clock when the Bill was discussed?

11.30 p.m.

Before we come to a decision on this question, might we have the considered opinion of the Secretary for Mines? This is a really serious matter, affecting the lives and the health of thousands of boys, and when there is a difference of opinion between the two Houses we ought not to come to a decision without having the views of the Minister.

11.31 p.m.

This is a Private Member's Bill, and I am not concerned with it. I have spoken already on it in the House. The Bill was agreed to on Second Reading and there was a Debate in Committee. The object was to abolish the work by boys on night shifts, and that only. That is why the original period was from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. In Committee it was changed from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m., and I said at that time that I had not had any consultation with the owners or the Mineworkers' Federation. On Report I told the House that in the interval I had been in consultation, and indeed the hon. Gentleman himself said that some elasticity would be required if the original principle was to be adhered to, which was merely to remove the anomaly that boys could be employed at night underground whereas they could not be so employed on the surface. This Bill of course has nothing to do with the question of whether boys under 16 should be employed on the day shift or the afternoon shift; it simply removes an anomaly. As a result of my inquiries, I had ascertained that the industry, as it spoke through the joint Consultative Committee thought that there should be such elasticity. But at the time of the Report stage in this House no provision for elasticity was made. It was because of the need for elasticity that a Noble Lord in another place, acting as spokesman for the joint consultative committee, moved this Amendment that there should be seven hours covering the night shift, during which the employment of boys should be completely barred. There is no great difference of opinion as between the two Houses. Both are agreed as to the main objective, namely, to remove an anomaly and not have boys working underground during the night shift. In order to make it a practical proposition my hon. Friend is asking the House to agree with the Amendment which the Lords have inserted in the Bill.

Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.

Remaining Lords Amendments agreed to.

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

It being after Half-past Eleven of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at Twenty-five Minutes before Twelve o'Clock.