Newfoundland (Post Office Telegraphists)
1.
asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he is aware that Post Office telegraphists in Newfoundland are not graded as Civil servants although they are paid by the Government, and that they have no promotion rights into the Post Office Department although they combine the duties of telegraphist and postmaster at the outport offices; that when financial difficulties arose their wages were severely cut, and, although minor adjustments have been made since, their wages are still meagre, ranging in the larger offices from 45 to 93 dollars per month and in the smaller offices from 10 to 65 dollars per month; that there is no pay for overtime work and that the usual working time is from 9 to 12 hours per day; that, in an effort to improve their conditions these men have combined together in forming a division of the Commercial Telegraphers' Union, but the Department have refused to recognise the organisation on the ground that the men should have no affiliation with organisations in another country, although it is an autonomous unit and would conduct its own negotiations; that an appeal to the chairman of the Government Commission against this decision has failed; that sections of the Commercial Telegraphers' Union are recognised in Canada; and whether he will take the necessary steps to have this matter reconsidered?
I am consulting the Governor regarding the questions raised, and will communicate with the hon. Member on receipt of his reply. In the meantime I may say that the Commission of Government have recently had under review the salary scales of assorting clerks and telegraphists at St. John's and of telegraph assistants in the more important offices in the out-ports, and that with my approval, improved scales of salary were introduced for both these classes of employés last month.
Will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that these men have the right to join a trade union, which is the union recognised in Canada? Will he see to it that this disability is removed? Should they not have the same right as they would have here and be able to negotiate through their trade union?
I do not think that I can say any more until I have had an answer from the Government, and I will let the hon. Member know.
South African Protectorates (Workers, Recruitment)
2.
asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he has obtained any assurances from the Union of South Africa which would enable him to consider the application of the International Labour Office Recruiting of Indigenous Workers Convention of 1936 to the Protectorates of South Africa?
Yes, Sir, but the question whether in applying the Convention to the High Commission Territories in South Africa it will be necessary to provide for some modification in respect of the provision relating to the payment of travelling expenses is still under consideration.
Will the right hon. Gentleman make serious representations on this matter, because the question is very widely applicable to the Protectorates, and is equally applicable to Nyasaland?
My reply was that the matter is still under consideration.
Alberta (Loans)
3.
asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he has any further statement to make in respect of the default of the Government of Alberta?
I have nothing to add to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for South-West St. Pancras (Sir G. Mitcheson) on 23rd November, except that I understand from Press reports that the Provincial Government of Alberta is taking steps to appeal against the judgment of the Supreme Court referred to in that reply.
Does my right hon. Friend not agree that these defaults are in a large measure due to putting into practice an obviously unsound scheme?
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the default has been because of the difficulties made by the Dominions Government and the Provincial Government in carrying through a sound social reform?
It is obvious that it would be quite out of place for me to make any comment on the matter.
Basutoland
4.
asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs what was the total percentage of the adult male population of Basutoland which was absent from the territory on employment at the last date for which figures are available?
According to the census returns for 1936 approximately 40 per cent. of the male population of Basutoland of Bantu race aged 15 and over was then absent from the territory on employment elsewhere.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that this is a very high percentage and that it is not conducive to the social well-being of people in Basutoland?
It certainly is a high percentage, but I think that the hon. Member will appreciate that there are things to be said on both sides, and it would be impossible to enter into a discussion of the matter by question and answer.
Is there a labour department which looks after the interests of these men who are doing labour outside this territory?
There is a labour union looking after the interests of workers in the outlying territories.
Trade And Commerce
Anglo-United States Trade Agreement Negotiations
5.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the fact that, under the Act of Congress, American industries which may be affected under the proposed schedules of the Anglo-American trade agreement will be given an opportunity of making representations to the American director of commerce, he will ensure that similar opportunities will be given to British agriculture and British industry?
I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to a question by the hon. Member for Croydon, South (Mr. H. G. Williams) on 2nd December.
Will the Government assure the House that the National Farmers' Union and leaders of industry throughout the country will be consulted as it will be too late after negotiations have taken place?
We shall follow the usual practice in these matters, and it is open to any bodies to make representations, and, indeed, many of them have already been asked to do so.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no invitations of that kind are issued to organised consumers, and have not the consumers a say in this mattre?
That is another point.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether an assurance has already been given to motor car manufacturers that duties against American cars are not to be reduced?
As far as I am aware no such assurances have been given to anyone.
9.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in the negotiations for a trading agreement between the United Kingdom and the United States of America, he will consider the possibility of relieving the present burden of double taxation between the two countries?
No, Sir. This is not a matter which falls within the scope of the negotiations for an Anglo-United States trade agreement.
Can my right hon. Friend say why it does not fall within the scope of an agreement of that character?
My right hon. and gallant Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury has explained many of the difficulties that arise in connection with it, which would make it quite impossible at the moment to find an agreed basis for negotiation which would make it possible to include it in this agreement.
Does the difficulty arise because of the reluctance that the United States of America may have to enter into such an arrangement?
This matter is primarily one for the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and any question dealing solely with this matter should be addressed to him. I am assured that any attempt to include this in an Anglo-American agreement would be bound to end in failure.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is of very considerable importance and that it is not a proper subject to come within the scope of the agreement?
I think that it is eminently a subject for agreement, if we could get one, but not in this agreement.
Italian Plums (Import)
6.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether seeing that the imports of Italian plums, greengages and damsons into the United Kingdom for the 10 months ended October, 1937, exceeded the imports for the whole 12 months of 1936, he will take steps to restrict the import of Italian plums?
I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to him on behalf of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries on 29th November.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the difficulties this year of growers in the Vale of Evesham, and is it not the fact that the home producers should come before the Italians?
I assure the hon. Member that I have every sympathy with the growers in the Vale of Evesham. The answer to which I referred the hon. Member explained the proper course to be taken.
Is the Minister aware that no one picked the plums grown in the division of the hon. Member because they could not get a proper price for them?
War Material (Export Licences)
8.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any licences have been issued in the last three months for the export of arms and war material to Italy or for the use of the Italian forces in Abyssinia?
As has been previously explained in this House, His Majesty's Government consider that it is contrary to the public interest to publish particulars of licences issued for the export of arms and ammunition to particular destinations. I may, however, add that during the period 1st August to 31st October, 1937, the values of the exports from the United Kingdom of arms, ammunition and military and naval stores to Italy and to Eritrea, Italian Somaliland and Ethiopia were respectively £20 and nil.
Film Industry
10.
asked the President of the Board of Trade particulars of estimates supplied to his Department in respect of films made abroad and exhibited in this country for the 12 months ended to the last convenient date, and the figures of the amounts expended in the hire of British films produced under the Cinematograph Films Act, 1927, that have been hired by foreign countries during the comparable period?
It is not possible to furnish precise information, but it is estimated that the amount of the payments made abroad in respect of film royalties during 1936 was of the order of £6,000,000, while the receipts from British films shown abroad were probably less than £1,000,000.
Is it possible for that information to be given to the Committee considering the Cinematograph Films Bill, as it would be of great interest to them?
I have no doubt that hon. Members who are sitting on that Committee will read the OFFICIAL REPORT and will see the information there.
Japanese Electrical Accessories (Import)
11.
asked the President of the Board of Trade the volume of imports of Japanese bakelite electrical accessories during the last eight months; whether the retail prices of these articles are considerably lower than those of British manufacture: whether the question has been recently reviewed by the Import Duties Advisory Committee and, if so, with what result?
I regret that I cannot supply information as to the volume of imports of bakelite electrical accessories from Japan as accessories of bakelite are not recorded separately from those made of other materials. An application for increased duty on certain electrical accessories has been made to the Import Duties Advisory Committee who have no doubt taken the question of retail prices into consideration, but in regard to the last part of the question I must refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 8th July last to the hon. and gallant Member for Tiverton (Lieut.-Colonel Acland-Troyte).
Will the right hon. Gentleman discourage buyers in this country from purchasing anything from Japan?
That is rather a different question.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Japanese wireless sets are being retailed in this country at 24s. and 25s. each?
American Boots And Shoes
13.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that many of the women of this country prefer boots and shoes made in the United States of America as being more in conformity with, and less liable to injure, the foot than those made in this country but are unable to purchase the same on account of the prohibitive tariff; and will he take steps to have the tariff reduced?
Any question of a variation in the rate of import duty on boots and shoes is a matter for consideration, in the first instance, by the Import Duties Advisory Committee.
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that shoes and boots which are within the reach of working-class women definitely injure their feet and produce lameness, and great suffering and ill-health are caused? Will he call the attention of the Minister of Health to this fact?
May I ask whether the President has noted the changed views of one of his supporters on the fiscal question?
I always thought with the hon. and learned Member that when the shoe pinched it was because there was not enough protection.
Is it not the case that the proportion of chiropodists in the United States is much greater than in England?
Spanish Iron Ore
14.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the fact that the iron ore now being imported into this country from Spanish territory in the occupation of the insurgents is produced by Basque loyalists, who are compelled to work long hours and under conditions of slavery, he will prohibit the importation of iron ore from this source?
Apart from any questions as to the facts, I have no power to prohibit the importation of iron ore in the absence of discriminatory treatment of goods exported from this country.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a large number of Basque loyalists are now being compelled to work under forced conditions in the mines from which this ore is being extracted, and will he make inquiries as to the conditions obtaining there?
I do not think that is really relevant. If I made inquiries I have no power in the matter.
Steel Rods (Price)
15.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any and, if so, what increase in the price of steel rods for reinforced concrete has been approved by the Import Duties Advisory Committee during the last 18 months?
The price of steel rods for reinforced concrete was increased with the assent of the Import Duties Advisory Committee on 1st June, 1936, by 6s. a ton; on 1st January, 1937, by 3s. a ton; and on 1st May, 1937, by £1 19s. a ton for rods of untested quality and by £2 8s. a ton for rods of tested and guaranteed quality.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say, roughly, what 3s. per ton increase since June, 1937, represents as a percentage?
If the hon. Member can do the arithmetic, I can tell him that the price before that increase was £8 9s. per ton.
If I bring to his notice a case of an increase of 27 per cent., will he look into it and ascertain whether it is right?
I shall be glad to receive any case from the hon. Member.
Is the President aware that in many cases where the supply of structural steel cannot be obtained for building clients have been recommended to use concrete construction, and that this heavy increase of duty is stopping that method of building as well?
The right hon. Member will realise that these increases are the inevitable consequence of the increase some time ago in basic steel prices.
Is it not the case that the British price for this steel is still below the American price and the Continental price?
Germany (Credits)
51.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether any negotiations on the renewal of the standstill agreement for the pre-1931 short-term credits owed by Germany to British firms are pending; whether the Treasury will be represented at any negotiations; and whether he will take action at these negotiations to ensure that Germany's export surplus will be used for fulfilling her commercial obligations abroad before it is spent in rearmament?
Negotiations regarding the standstill credits are, I understand, now in progress. His Majesty's Government are not a party to or represented at these negotiations which are between representatives of the German debtors and their banking creditors.
In view of the seriousness of this matter and its political repercussions, will the Chancellor of the Exchequer not consider the advisability of having a Treasury representative there to watch the negotiations?
I think the standstill agreement was arrived at in the same way, and those who are concerned, both on this side and on the other side, are extremely competent to deal with the matter.
Food Supplies (Storage)
7.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in connection with the organisation of the food supplies of the country, he will consider advising those families which are in a position to do so permanently to double their normal storage of non-perishable articles; and whether, since this policy could be adopted in peace time, but not when war had actually broken out, he will give the suggestion early consideration?
The suggestion made by my hon. and gallant Friend has received careful consideration during recent months, but I am not prepared to adopt it at the present time.
Territorial Army
Committee Of Inquiry
16.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he can now state the name of the chairman and the members of the committee of inquiry into the general administration of the Territorial Army?
My Noble Friend the Under-Secretary of State will be chairman of the committee. The members will be:
- Major-General Sir John Brown, K.C.B., C.B.E., D.S.O., T.D.,
- Colonel the Viscount Cobham, C.B., T.D.,
- Colonel Sir Robert Johnson, K.C.V.O., K.B.E., T.D., and
- Mr. J. R. Wade.
- The Secretary will be Brigadier-General R. W. Hare, C.M.G., D.S.O.
Recruits
18.
asked the Secretary of State for War the number of recruits accepted for the Territorial Army during the 12 months ended to the last convenient date?
During the 12 months ended 31st October last, 43,933 recruits were finally approved for the Territorial Army, being an increase of 10,536 on the number finally approved during the 12 months ended 31st October, 1936. The figure is a record one for a normal year.
Is it a fact that some recruits are rejected for some units because they are already over the establishment?
The hon. Member is perfectly correct. There are waiting lists in the case of some units, and the services of these applicants cannot, therefore, be utilised in those establishments.
British Army
Boys (Smoking)
17.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the action of the commanding officer of the headquarter company of the 2nd Battalion, Black Watch, at present stationed at Jerusalem, in writing to Mr. Malcolm MacMillan, 55, Blytheswood Street, Glasgow, the father of John MacMillan, a boy of 17 years of age, at present serving with the regiment, asking permission to flog the boy for smoking; whether this action has his approval; and what steps he is taking in the matter?
I am sorry the hon. Member should use the word "flog," of which there can be no question. No boy may receive corporal punishment in the Army without the parent's consent.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the word "flog" in the Oxford Dictionary is given as meaning "to beat," and that the word used by the Commanding Officer was "beat"? Further, is he aware that this boy was within a few months of arriving at the age at which it is permitted for a boy to smoke in the Army, and that outside in civilian life a boy is allowed to smoke at 16. Does the right hon. Gentleman think the seriousness of the offence warrants this punishment?
As to the first question of the hon. Member, if the word "beat" was used, I do not see why he changed it into the word "flog." The boy has not been subjected either to beating or flogging, or any form of corporal punishment. As regards the advantage of smoking or otherwise at 16 years of age, that is a matter of opinion, but the Army acting towards these boys in loco parentis, endeavours to bring them up in the healthiest possible way.
This is rather a serious matter. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is the second time this officer has written to parents in Glasgow—
The hon. Member is now giving information.
I beg to give notice that I shall call attention to this matter at the first opportunity.
Cerebro-Spinal Fever
19.
asked the Secretary of State for War the number of cases of cerebro-spinal fever reported and admitted to hospital, from the various stations throughout Great Britain, for the 12 months ended to the last convenient date?
During the twelve months ended 30th November last, the numbers of soldiers admitted to hospital on account of cerebro-spinal fever were as follow: London 8, Woolwich 4, Caterham 3, Bury (Lanes.) 2, and one each at Aldershot, Canterbury, Halifax, Lichfield and Preston. Three soldiers' children were also admitted, one each at London, Parkhurst and Woolwich.
Are these figures increasing or decreasing among the military population?
I cannot say without notice.
Marriage Allowance
20.
asked the Secretary of State for War the number of men serving in the Army whose wives are receiving public assistance, owing to the inability of their husbands to maintain them adequately out of Army pay?
Men who marry below the age which renders them eligible for marriage allowance are not compelled to report the fact, and there is, therefore, no means of knowing the number of cases of this kind.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are a large number of cases of this kind, and does he regard this fact as being desirable in the interests of the Army?
The Minister is not called upon to give an opinion at Question Time on a matter of this kind.
I will ask a question which does not evoke his opinion. I will ask him a question about the facts. If he is concerned about the reorganisation of the Army, will he regard this matter as being equally important?
I shall naturally pay attention to the views of the hon. Member, who is aware from his own experience at the War Office that there is a definite age at which soldiers are permitted to marry.
Accident, Woolwich Arsenal
21.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he can make any statement about the accident at Woolwich Arsenal on 2nd December in which four men were injured; and what was the cause of the accident?
The four men in question were employed by a contractor carrying out repairs to a roof in the Royal Arsenal. I regret to learn that they were accidentally injured on the date mentioned owing to the collapse of some scaffolding erected by the contractor.
Are these men receiving their proper compensation?
They are employés of the contractor, and I should imagine that the ordinary process will be followed.
General Staff
22.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether any further reorganisation of the Higher Command is contemplated in the near future?
The hon. Member will recall that I replied yesterday to a question on this subject.
Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that in his statement yesterday he talked about the principle he is following in the future reorganisation, and in view of the deduction that can be arrived at from that statement, will he extend this principle to its wider aspect in the Higher Command?
Yes, Sir. The statement I made was not restricted in its aspect.
Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the financial position of these officers who are dismissed will be protected?
indicated assent.
Will the right hon. Gentleman take the Cabinet in hand as well?
26.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the new Chief of the Imperial General Staff, the Adjutant-General, and the Master of the Ordnance are all younger than the officers they replace; and whether he will give the average ages of the officers comprising the general staffs of the British, French, German, and Japanese armies?
The new Chief of the Imperial General Staff and the new Adjutant-General to the Forces are both younger that the officers they replace. The Master-General of the Ordnance is not being replaced as such. The officer to be appointed Deputy Master-General of the Ordnance is younger than the present Master-General of the Ordnance. As regards the last part of the question, if by general staffs the hon. and gallant Member means the senior military officers in positions roughly comparable with those of the Military Members of the Army Council, the average ages in France, Germany and Japan are about 63, 57 and 53, respectively, compared with 55 for the Military Members of the reconstituted Army Council.
Commissioned Officers
23.
asked the Secretary of State for War what is the total shortage of commissioned officers in the Regular Army of the rank of second lieutenant, lieutenant, captain, and above at the last convenient date and at the corresponding date 12 months ago?
The ranks of captain and above are kept filled by promotion, so the total shortage in commissioned officers in the Regular Army is in lower ranks. On 1st November, 1936, the shortage was 506. Since then the strength has increased by 219, but establishments have increased by 646.
24.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the grant of commissions from the ranks depends upon the number of qualified candidates available or upon the number of vacancies in the military colleges or upon a fixed quota; and whether he is taking any steps to encourage this source of supply?
The grant of combatant commissions from the ranks depends upon the number of qualified candidates within a fixed annual quota—at present 41. The question of reviewing the method of granting commissions from the ranks is one of the terms of reference of the Willingdon Committee.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the quota has not been altered for many years past, and that fully qualified men are being put back on the ground that there is no room for them in the quota?
I am not unsympathetic towards the question, but that is not quite the fact. The quota is 41, and applications did not reach that figure.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that during the last few weeks, of 12 candidates who were fully approved by commanding officers, only six were allowed entrance on the ground that there were no vacancies for the remaining six?
I was not aware of that, but as I have told my hon. Friend, this will be a subject of report by the Willingdon Committee, and I do not regard the question with any lack of sympathy.
Officers' Allowances
25.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he can state the total annual saving to War Office estimates from the withdrawal of free passages for nurses for officers' children by military transports, withdrawal of allowances for officers' chargers, and other economies effected at the expense of officers during the present financial year; and whether he will await the report of the Willingdon Committee before taking further measures to effect economies at the expense of junior commissioned officers?
Free passages for nurses and governesses of officers' children were discontinued as long ago as 1933 as part of a general revision of regulations governing sea passages and travelling. This withdrawal saved Army Votes about £2,000 a year, but at the same time travelling concessions were made for all ranks, costing over £4,000 a year. These include free return passages for families to stations abroad after accompanying invalided officers to this country, or having been invalided themselves; free passages to stations abroad for the brides of officers who marry while on leave and free conveyance of an officer's furniture from his old to his new home station, after return from foreign service. The annual saving to Army Votes by the withdrawal of what are known as second forages is about £4,000. It is incorrect, however, to regard this as an economy effected at the expense of the officer; it naturally follows from the mechanisation of the Army. I am not aware of any economies made during this year or in contemplation at the expense of officers. On the other hand, I would point out that concessions in respect of rations and ration allowances amounting to some £60,000 annually were made to officers from the beginning of the present financial year.
Am I to understand from my right hon. Friend that junior officers will get £60,000 in ration allowances?
That is the figure which I gave.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the withdrawal of the second forage allowance will discourage officers from joining, and that in the French Cavalry, although it is mechanised, they are still giving officers the forage allowance?
With regard to the second forage allowance, it was given to officers when they had a horse of their own, in addition to the charger to which they were entitled.
Scotland
Rent Advisory Committees
27 and 28.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) whether he will ascertain the number of local authorities in Scotland who have set up rent advisory committees to publish information for the assistance of tenants; and how many such authorities have exercised the powers conferred upon them by Section 10 of the Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions (Amendment) Act, 1933;
(2) whether, having regard to the small number of local authorities in Scotland who have set up rent advisory committees, he will draw their attention to the powers conferred upon them by the Rent and Mortgage Interest Restrictions Act, 1933?As the whole question of rent restriction will have to be considered in the light of the report of the Interdepartmental Committee—which will be laid before Parliament at an early date—I do not think that any action such as the hon. Member suggests could appropriately be taken at present.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that confusion and uncertainty are felt by innumerable poor people in industrial areas in regard to increases of rents which are permissible, and having regard to the enormous benefit which has been conferred on these people by those local authorities who have set up these committees, would it not be well for him to represent to the local authorities that they should follow that example?
I think that action would be more appropriate in connection with the forthcoming legislation which will be necessary to replace the Rent Restriction Act.
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that there is already power to set up rent advisory committees which Parliament conferred upon these authorities after prolonged debate, and if those powers are not to be rendered nugatory, why will the right hon. Gentleman not remind local authorities that they should take that step?
I think the whole question of rent restriction will have to be reviewed in the light of the report.
Housing
29.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of houses in the Haghill housing scheme, Glasgow, which are slum-clearance houses, the number of intermediate houses in this scheme, and the rents, inclusive of rates, being paid by the tenants for such houses of both types?
As the answer involves a number of figures, I propose, with the hon. Member's permission, to circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
In view of the increased cost of living, will the right hon. Gentleman bring to the notice of local authorities the need for a reduction?
Following is the answer:
Haghill Housing Scheme—Glasgow. | ||||
| A. Slum Clearance Houses. | ||||
| Number of Houses. | ||||
| 2 apts. | 3 apts. | 4 apts. | 5 apts. | Total. |
| 192 | 216 | 12 | 6 | 426 |
| Rentals (including occupiers' rates) per calendar month. | |||
| 2 apts. | 3 apts. | 4 apts. | 5 apts. |
| 30s. | 132 houses at 35s. | 38s. | 42s. 6d. |
| 84 houses at 36s. | |||
| B. Intermediate Houses. | ||
| Number of Houses. | ||
| 3 apts. | 4 apts. | Total. |
| 558 | 192 | 750 |
| Rentals (including occupiers' rates) per calendar month. | |||
| 3 apts. | 4 apts. | ||
| 43s. | 4d. | 49s. | 10d. |
30.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of completed houses allocated to the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1930, for the half-years ended 15th May, 1934, 1935, 1936, and 1937, respectively?
The numbers of completed houses allocated to the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1930, for the half-years in question were 3,676, 6,362, 6,838 and 4,205, respectively.
32.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the Scottish Housing Association for the Special Areas has yet arrived at a decision as to when, where, and on what scale building operations should be commenced?
Subject to the necessary agreement being entered into with the county council, the association have decided to commence operations in Lanarkshire at Tannochside, Carluke and Holy-town. The number of houses involved is approximately 600.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Under-Secretary of State has just made a public statement that many contracts now being entered into will not be started for 18 months in Scotland, and how, if that be the case, does the committee expect to get building operations started promptly?
It is on that account that we are forced to proceed by means of this committee which is operating by alternative methods.
Will the right hon. Gentleman verify the statement that many contracts now being entered into cannot be started for 18 months?
At the present rate of some 17,000 houses per annum, I think the 34,000 houses under contract will inevitably lead to very long delay, possibly 18 months or over, in the completion of these houses?
That does not apply to England?
It does not apply to England.
Poor Law Relief
33.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total annual expenditure on Poor Law relief in Scotland for the years ended May, 1931, and 1937, respectively?
I regret that information as to the expenditure on poor relief in Scotland for the year to 15th May, 1937, is not yet available. With the hon. Member's permission, however, I shall circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a statement of the expenditure for the years ended 15th May, 1931, and 15th May, 1936.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the Glasgow "Forward" there is a report by the ex-Treasurer of Glasgow indicating the figures for Glasgow for the dates for which I have asked the information, and if the ex-Treasurer of Glasgow is able to get the figures, why cannot the right hon. Gentleman give them to the House?
The figures for the separate local authorities are generally available before the figures for Scotland as a whole.
Why are the statistics of expenditure of local authorities in Scotland published so much later than the corresponding figures for this country?
Following is the statement:
Expenditure on relief to the sane poor in Scotland for the years ended 15th May, 1931 and 15th May, 1936.
| — | Able-bodied poor. | Ordinary poor. | Total. |
| 1931. | £
| £
| £
|
| Outdoor | 631,784 | 2,012,213 | 2,643,997 |
| Indoor | 21,323 | 776,482 | 797,805 |
| 653,107 | 2,788,695 | 3,441,802 | |
| 1936. | |||
| Outdoor | 2,478,608 | 3,786,611 | 6,265,219 |
| Indoor | 35,731 | 629,853 | 665,584 |
| 2,514,339 | 4,416,464 | 6,930,803* | |
*The grant to local authorities in Scotland under the Unemployment Assistance (Temporary Provisions) (No. 2) Act, 1934, which falls to be set off against the poor law expenditure for 1936, amounted to £1,632,507. | |||
Air-Raid Precautions
31.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether a special department is to be set up in Scotland for the acceptance, modification, or rejection of air-raid precautions schemes submitted by Scottish local authorities?
The Central Department advising the Secretary of State for Scotland as well as the Secretary of State for the Home Department in relation to air-raid precautions will be the Air-Raid Precautions Department, which will have regional inspectors stationed in Scotland, England and Wales.
Herring Industry
34.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has considered the protests from the Stornoway Town Council against the operation of the Herring Industry Board's rule regarding the time-limit for kippering herring; whether he is aware that the rule is a serious handicap on the West Coast in winter; and what action he proposes to take to end this grievance?
I have received representations from the Town Council of Stornoway against the rule mentioned in the question. The making of such a rule by the Herring Industry Board is not subject to Ministerial approval, and I have no power to interfere with the Board's discretion in the matter. I have, however, communicated the representations to the Board who inform me that after reviewing the matter, they regard the general advantage to be secured by the rule in improving the quality of kippers as outweighing any disadvantage which may be involved in particular cases. As regards the effect upon Stornoway, the Board point out that the quantities of herring sent from that port to the mainland for kippering have been inconsiderable.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Herring Board fix the time for kippering almost immediately after the herring are landed instead of fixing it for a time after they are caught, with the result that Norwegian herring caught a fortnight before compete with herring caught by local people a day or two before?
Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the inability of the Herring Board properly to function is due to the fact that he has not the power to interfere with its powers of discretion, and will his Department undertake to ascertain what powers it has with regard to the Board?
That is a very flattering assumption of the superiority that I would show over the Herring Board, and I am sure that it would not be borne out in practice.
Why should not the Herring Board be composed of traders?
Justices Of The Peace (Provosts)
35.
asked the Lord Advocate whether he is aware that the provosts of small burghs in Scotland are no longer justices of the peace ex officio, and that there are small burghs, such as Kilsyth, where the provost is over 65 years of age and is thereby ineligible under the present practice for nomination by the county advisory committee as a justice of the peace; and whether, as these two considerations prevent the chief magistrate from being appointed as a justice of the peace, he will take steps to have the age limit for the appointment of justices modified in such special circumstances?
I am aware that the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1929, repealed the provision of the Burgh Police (Scotland) Act, 1892, under which the Provosts of certain police burghs were ex officio justices of the peace. I am informed by the Lord Chancellor, with whom I have been in communication, that there is no absolute rule as to the age over which persons will not be appointed to the Commission of the Peace, and that it is open to advisory committees to recommend any provost who is in all respects eligible for the office. The Lord Chancellor does not, however, regard it as generally advisable in the public interest that persons should commence their duties as justices at an advanced age.
In the event of the local advisory committee not making a recommendation in such special circumstances as there are in this case, has the local town council the right to approach the Lord Chancellor as representing His Majesty?
I should not like to say without notice.
Telegraph And Air-Mail Facilities (Orkneys)
59.
asked the Postmaster-General the reason for the delay in completing the telegraph connection between the Islands of Papa Westray and Westray, Orkney?
A cable has been laid between Westray and Papa Westray, but some further construction work is necessary before telegraph communication can be established between the two islands. It is hoped to complete this in about three months.
60.
asked the Postmaster-General when the air-mail service to the North Isles of Orkney is due to begin?
No decision has yet been reached as to the institution of such a service.
Coal Industry
Mineral Rights Duty And Royalties Welfare Levy
36.
asked the Secretary for Mines the total amount paid by the present royalty owners in Mineral Rights Duty and Welfare Fund Levy?
The total receipts from Mineral Rights Duty and Royalties Welfare Levy from their commencement in 1910 and 1927 respectively up to 31st March last, amounted to £7,032,980 and £2,067,751.
Shot-Firing
38.
asked the Secretary for Mines the number of collieries that are substituting for shot-firing other methods of getting down coal; and what progress is being made in eliminating shot-firing?
Such devices as Cardox and Hydrox and the hydraulic burster are in general use at some 20 collieries, and are being tried out at a number of others. The use of pneumatic picks is also progressing, the number in use for coal getting having risen from 934 in 1928, at 78 mines, to 6,464 in 1936 at 234 mines, and the quantity of coal so mined, from little more than 1,000,000 tons to 11,750,000 tons. It has been found possible to eliminate shot-firing altogether at some mines, and the mines inspectors are giving this movement every encouragement.
Carbonisation Works
39.
asked the Secretary for Mines what proportion of Britain's annual output of coal is treated in by-product works, and the number of tons this proportion represents?
The quantity of coal carbonised in 1936 at by-product coke-ovens, gas works and low-temperature carbonisation plants was 39,000,000 tons, representing 17 per cent. of the total output of coal in that year.
Naval And Military Pensions And Grants
40.
asked the Minister of Pensions how many applications for pensions have been received and dealt with under the special arrangements for dealing with applications made more than seven years after the termination of the War; and how many have been granted?
During the year ended 31st October last, 2,874 applications, nearly half of which were made by existing or former pensioners, were received for fresh disabilities claimed to be due to war service. Of these 490 were established and accepted for pension or treatment.
41.
asked the Minister of Pensions what progress he has made in carrying out his undertaking that he would take steps to collaborate with the Ministry of Health in dealing with the hardship of cases where widows of disabled ex-service men failed to obtain widows' pensions under the Royal Warrant because their husbands did not die from the disability for which the pension was granted, and subsequently were refused widows' pensions under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Pensions Act because their husbands, owing to war disability, were not in insurable occupations?
I have, in concert with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, instituted arrangements between my Department and the Ministry of Health which ensures that all possible assistance obtainable from the information in the possession of the Ministry is given to widows of disabled ex-service men who may have a title to pension under the contributory pensions scheme. These arrangements are working satisfactorily.
42.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will recommend a change in the statutory regulations to permit of the commutation of life disability pensions of less than 16s. per week, such commutation in the case of small pensions being more urgent and desirable than is the case with pensions of 16s. upwards?
I am satisfied from experience that the requirements of the present statutory regulations, which secure uniformity of practice between the Ministry of Pensions and the Service Departments, preserve to the pensioner the minimum pension which should be left uncommuted.
Is the Minister aware that many of these men who are receiving small pensions are included in the class known as "prematurely aged" and that they have to go to the Public Assistance Committee; and will he reconsider his answer?
Experience shows that it is seldom that the commutation of the pension works out to the advantage of the pensioner.
43.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will consider the advisability of obtaining powers to revise the Royal Warrant in order to meet the cases of distress of ex-service men who originally had a disability pension, which was afterwards withdrawn, who now, suffering from their War disability, apply at employment exchanges for suitable work, are sent to be medically examined and are found incapable of work, are subsequently refused unemployment benefit, not being fit men, and have to obtain relief from the Public Assistance Board?
The basic principle of compensation for War disablement, approved by the House, is the award of like pension or grant for all disablements of like degree. I could not, consistently with this principle, agree to modify the pension in individual cases to meet difficulties in obtaining employment in this or that particular occupation. It is not the practice, as my hon. Friend suggests, for employment exchanges to send men for medical examinations. Where ill-health is the cause of a man's inability to obtain employment, the case would usually be dealt with, so far as necessary, either by the social services under the control of the Ministry of Health or by my Department, according to circumstances.
If I bring a case before my hon. Friend, will he make inquiries?
Certainly, I am always glad to have any case which the hon. Member cares to bring before me.
Inasmuch as the principle is causing some hardship, does not the hon. Gentleman think the time has come when there ought to be a revision of it?
The House of Commons considered the principle in 1917 and substituted another principle which was a sound one.
Afforestation
Tenancies, North Tyne And Redesdale Areas
44.
asked the right hon. and gallant Member for Rye, as representing the Forestry Commissioners, how many tenants on their properties in the North Tyne and Redesdale areas hold land on 364-day tenancies; and whether these tenancies will all be changed to annual or long terms in the near future?
Seventeen tenants on the Forestry Commissioners' properties in the North Tyne and Redesdale areas hold land on 364-day tenancies and no change in these tenancies is contemplated.
Is it not the case that these 364-day tenancies are given to avoid giving farmers compensation for disturbance, and is that a good example of the Government as landlord?
My hon. and gallant Friend is misinformed. Of the 17 tenancies I mentioned in the first answer, nine have forest workers' holdings and the others have temporary grazing tenancies on farms which are about to be planted.
Roman Wall Area
57.
asked the right hon. and gallant Member for Rye, as representing the Forestry Commissioners, what is the shortest distance between the Roman Wall and any point of their existing properties in Northumberland or Cumberland; whether any land in the vicinity of the Roman Wall has been surveyed by their officials; and whether they are prepared to guarantee that no land which is within three miles of, and is visible from, the Roman Wall will be planted?
The shortest distance between the Roman Wall and the Forestry Commissioners' Warke Forest is approximately one mile. Land in the vicinity of the Wall has been surveyed by their officials. The Commissioners are not prepared to guarantee as suggested, but great care will be paid to the amenities in any planting in the vicinity of the Wall.
Did the Commission judge for themselves the amenities of the Roman Wall?
All such matters are considered by a Joint Committee of the Council for the Preservation of Rural England and of the Commissioners.
Kieldek Village Settlement
58.
asked the right hon. and gallant Member for Rye, as representing the Forestry Commissioners, whether he can give a full statement explaining the long delay in the construction of the Kielder village settlement, giving the date of commencement and the date by which it is now hoped that the houses will be occupied?
Owing to delay on the part of the builder of the houses at Kielder the Forestry Commissioners have terminated the contract dated 30th July, 1936. The matter is under consideration by the parties' legal advisers, and meanwhile it is not possible to anticipate the date by which the houses will be occupied.
Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman recollect that he told this House last July, in answer to a Supplementary Question, that many of the cottages were nearly ready and occupants had been selected but were not actually in occupation. How does he relate that statement to the answer which he has just given?
Both statements are strictly correct.
Is it not time that my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Hexham (Colonel Brown) and my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Rye (Sir G. Courthope) buried the hatchet?
Economic Mission (M Van Zeeland's Report)
45.
asked the Prime Minister whether he has yet received a written report from M. Van Zeeland on the result of his mission to the United States of America, particularly in regard to the conclusion of a trade agreement between the United States and this country; and whether it is proposed to publish a statement with full details of the report?
I am not at present in a position to add to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 29th November to the hon. Member for Kingswinford (Mr. A. Henderson), namely, that M. Van Zeeland is preparing his report, but it has not yet been received. As regard the second part of the question, I shall be ready to consider the question of a public statement when the report has been received.
Are we to assume from the Prime Minister's statement that he is expecting the report and that a statement will be made before long?
I cannot say when the report will be received, but I have no reason to think that it will be long delayed.
The point is that the Prime Minister will let the House know and that the report will be made public?
That is rather a different question. I was asked whether I would make a public statement. I said I would consider the question when the report was received. The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the question of the publication of the report is not a matter for me to decide alone. It is a matter also for M. Van Zeeland and the French Government. Perhaps I may add that I have no reason to suppose that either of them will object to the publication of the report.
Defence Services
High Commands
46.
asked the Prime Minister whether he intends to extend to the Navy and the Royal Air Force the War Office policy of reducing the age of those holding high command; and whether in future health and physical fitness will be regarded as an essential qualification for high command in all the three Defence Services?
The hon. and gallant Member may rest assured that when appointments to the high command in the Defence Services are being considered, my right hon. Friends the First Lord of the Admiralty and the Secretary of State for Air will continue to give full weight to all relevant considerations, including the age, health and physical fitness of the officers concerned.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is the case that the First Sea Lord is 12 years older than the youngest member of his Board, and 14 years older than the average age of the members of the Air Council; and is it not desirable that there should be an approximation of average ages between the Air Council, the Army Council and the Board of Admiralty?
May I ask by what methods the right hon. Gentleman gives his consideration to the health of officers whom it is proposed to promote to the higher command? Is there any medical examination of any shape or kind, or does he just have a look at them?
That question might be addressed to the head of the Department responsible.
Is not the First Sea Lord to whom the hon. and gallant Member referred a highly efficient officer?
On a point of Order. In questions which appear on the Order Paper ought not the Navy to be properly described as the Royal Navy?
May I have a reply to my supplementary question, as it is very important that there should be a similarity of mental outlook in matters affecting the co-ordination of Defence?
Marriage Allowance
56.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the number of cases of wives of men serving in the Navy and Army who are compelled to apply for public assistance, he will consult with the heads of the three Defence Services, with a view to the qualifying age for marriage allowance being lowered?
Questions affecting the conditions of service of men of His Majesty's Forces primarily concern the Ministers in charge of the respective Defence Departments.
Is not the Minister aware that Members in many parts of the House consider that these cases are very disturbing and distressing and that they seriously affect the prestige of the Services concerned, and will he not reconsider his answer and get into touch with the heads of these Services?
It is not a question of reconsidering my reply, which I think the hon. and gallant Gentleman did not hear, and which was that this is primarily a question for the Ministers in charge of the Defence Departments.
Is not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that some public assistance committees are refusing relief to the wives of serving men, and can he use his influence to induce those public assistance committees to afford an adequate measure of relief in such cases?
That is a different question.
Is the Minister aware that one of these questions was addressed to a Defence Service Minister, who replied that he was bound by Treasury regulations in the matter, and is that not the reason why it cannot be reconsidered?
Foreign Loans (British Investors)
47.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that Germany has derived for the current year a net free sterling surplus of not less than £5,000,000 in her commercial and financial relations with the United Kingdom; and will he therefore, out of that surplus, restore the defaulted sinking fund on the British holdings of German International (Young) 5½ per cent. Loan of 1930, which was taken up in the faith of the terms contained in the Treasury White Paper, as the subscribers have now lost half their capital owing to the default on the contractual sinking fund?
I do not know how my hon. Friend arrives at the figure given in the first part of the question, but under the provisions of the Anglo-German Payments Agreement of 1st November, 1934, a balance of free sterling remains at the disposal of the German Government. As regards the second part, full interest is being paid under Article 7 of that Agreement on bonds in British ownership of the German International Loan of 1930; should the question be raised of amending the Agreement so as to provide for capital repayments, there would no doubt be other claimants to a share of the surplus besides the bondholders of the Young Loan. The question is, therefore, a complicated one, but I should, of course, welcome any action which the German Government could take towards restoring the contractual payments to British creditors.
48.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can give the figures, as at the middle of 1937, of the amount of the nominal £39,000,000 of loans offered to British investors on the recommendation of the League of Nations which are in whole or partial default, and the names of the British subjects among the experts who advised the issue of these loans; and whether he will take into consideration the British capital lost in foreign loans floated on the advice of the financial experts of the League before raising the embargo on foreign lending?
Of the League loans issued in London, about £20,500,000 nominal was at the middle of 1937 either in receipt of full service or had been paid off; on about £8,750,000, reduced service payments were being made under agreements reached with representatives of the bondholders; on about £10,250,000 partial payments had been offered by the debtor Government, but the offer had not been accepted by the bondholders' representatives. The responsibility for recommending the issue of these loans rests upon the League Council as a whole. As regards the last paragraph of the question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave on 30th November to my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-on-Tyne, North (Sir N. Grattan-Doyle).
In view of the fact that the League Council advised investors in Great Britain to put their money into these loans, cannot some powers of compulsory exchange clearing be instituted in order to help the investors of this country?
As one of those apparently referred to in the question, and as one who certainly has no desire to evade any responsibility, may I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is not the case that the average return to investors in League loans up to date and over an average period of about 12 years has exceeded 6 per cent., and whether this return does not compare favourably with the record not only of foreign investments in general, but of many classes of British investments, to say nothing of the 2½ or 3½ per cent. loans which the hon. Member opposite so frequently advocates?
Australian Loans
49.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that 60 to 80 per cent. of the Australian conversion loan offered in London at the end of November was left with the underwriters; and will he represent to the Australian authorities that, until a considerable proportion of the loans issued here has been repatriated to Australia, no issues of new or conversions of old Australian loans will be permitted to be ranked upon the trustee list?
The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, but I would remind my hon. Friend that the immediate result of any such operation is to a great extent dependent upon market conditions at the tune of issue. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative.
Income Tax (Royalty Owners)
50.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount of Income Tax paid by the present royalty owners?
It is not possible to earmark any part of the produce of the Income Tax (including Sur-tax) contributed in respect of this particular source of income.
Air-Raid Shelters (Assessments)
52.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will take early legislative steps to empower the local assessment committee for rates and the local bodies of general commissioners of Income Tax to disallow any increase of their assessment by the local authority or under Schedule A to those private persons who put up-gas-proof or bomb-proof shelters which may have involved considerable capital expenditure?
The suggestion of my hon. and gallant Friend would involve great complications. Where the capital outlay involves no increase in annual value, the assessment would be unaffected. But if an owner increases the letting value of his property by such outlay, the ordinary rules of assessment would apply.
Exchange Equalisation Account
53.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will be able to make a statement as to the position of the Exchange Equalisation Account as at 30th September last before the House rises for the Christmas Recess?
My hon. and gallant Friend will remember that what I promised the House was a half-yearly publication made three months in arrear of the position as at 31st March and 30th September. I should propose, therefore, that the approaching statement should be published on 31st December.
Civil Service
Dependants (Benevolent Funds)
54.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what central or Departmental funds are in existence in order to help to provide educational and/or other maintenance facilities for the children of deceased Civil servants; and will he give details of such facilities?
Various benevolent or provident funds are in operation in the Civil Service, some of which provide, amongst other benefits, educational and maintenance facilities for the children of deceased Civil servants. Such funds are maintained from non-official sources, for example, voluntary contributions from serving and retired officers. They are entirely benevolent in character and their administration is not under the official control of the Departments in which they operate. I am not, therefore, in a position to give details of the facilities they offer. Examples of such funds are:
- The Civil Service Benevolent Fund.
- The Post Office Clerks Benevolent Fund.
- The Post Office Relief Fund.
- The Customs and Excise Orphans', Widows' and War Memorial Fund.
- The Ministry of Labour Benevolent Fund.
- The Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise Provident Fund.
- Civil Service Widows' and Orphans' Fund.
Sir George Robertson
55.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the fact that Sir George Stuart Robertson, the late Industrial Commissioner, has resigned his position and has been granted a pension of £875 per annum, he will state why Sir George Robertson had to obtain the consent of the Government before accepting the position of director of the Prudential Assurance Company?
I am sending to the hon. Member a copy of the Memorandum on the subject of the acceptance of business appointments by officers of the Crown Services (Command Paper 5517) issued in July last which sets out the position in this matter.
Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the Prudential Assurance Company will be in a privileged position; that they will be able to obtain inside information and thus have an advantage over any other society or company? Will he give an assurance that the new Industrial Commissioner will not be permitted to accept an appointment of this or any other kind at any time, so as to ensure that he will not divulge information at his disposal?
If the hon. Member will read the Command Paper to which I have referred, he will see that certain principles are laid down governing the acceptance of offices of this nature, and I am quite satisfied that those principles were acted upon in this case, and that the appointment was a proper one.
Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman understand that in the seconding of this Gentleman from the Industrial Commissioner's post to the Prudential Assurance Company—because he has obtained the consent of the Government to accept a directorship—the Prudential Assurance Company is placed in a privileged position?
The hon. Member does not know the facts of the case. This officer was not seconded. He retired and accepted an appointment after a proper examination in terms of the memorandum to which I have referred had been made.
Does not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman deprecate persons leaving the State service and accepting a position of this kind?
I think both hon. Members should read the Memorandum to which I have referred, and which goes very fully into this matter. I will send the hon. Member for Don Valley (Mr. T. Williams) a copy of it, too.
Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman consider publishing, in addition to the Memorandum, a statement giving the number of people who obtained such appointments in the last 10 or 12 years, and will he consider the advisability of informing civil servants that their duty is to the Government, and that they are to remain at their national posts and not take advantage of anything they may learn in the course of their service to the nation?
Would the Minister not consider bringing in the necessary legislation to suspend the operation of pensions for these civil servants?
Would it be proper to ask what the British Broadcasting Corporation did on 7th May?
Agriculture
Poultry Industry
61.
asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has received the reports of the egg-marketing scheme from the National Farmers' Union and the National Poultry Council; and what action he is proposing to take in this connection?
I have received the provisional proposals to which my hon. Friend refers, and am giving them my careful consideration.
62.
asked the Minister of Agriculture the progress made by the Departmental Committee investigating poultry mortality; and what is the estimated loss of poultry caused by disease in this country in the latest 12 months for which figures are available?
I understand that the Committee hopes to be able to present its report early next year. As regards the latter part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given on 17th November to my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Sir P. Hurd).
63.
asked the Minister of Agriculture what steps are being taken at the present time to provide facilities for British poultry farmers to place a reasonable proportion of their eggs in cold storage during those periods of the year when there is an excessive supply; and whether he will take steps to assist the financing of an organisation to provide such cold storage accommodation in suitable centres throughout the country?
The provision of facilities for the cold storage of home-produced eggs is primarily a matter for the industry itself. In the event of a producers' board being set up to regulate egg marketing, the question whether additional cold stor- age accommodation will be required will depend on the powers and policy of that organisation. As I have indicated to my hon. Friend in reply to an earlier question, proposals for the improved marketing of home-produced eggs have now been submitted by the industry and are at present under consideration.
Government Milk Policy
(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries the detailed arrangements for giving effect to the price insurance plan for milk used for butter and cheese outlined in the White Paper on milk policy last July, and whether the Government have taken into account the changed level of prices and costs?
Yes, Sir. Paragraph 7 of the White Paper indicated the general outline of a price insurance plan under which Exchequer assistance would be payable, within the limit of unspecified standard gallonages, in respect of milk used in factories for butter and cheese and milk made into cheese on farms, in the event of the average market prices of imported butter and cheese falling, over a period, below standard prices of 100s. and 56s. per cwt. respectively.
In the legislation to give effect to the White Paper policy, the Government will propose that the standard gallonages for milk used in Great Britain for butter and cheese should be 125,000,000 gallons per annum in each case. The Government have also reviewed the figures to be fixed for the proposed standard prices. They have taken into account the factors referred to in my hon. and gallant Friend's question. They also consider that it would be desirable to take some account of the seasonal variation in the quantities of milk available and in the costs of production, and the forthcoming legislation will provide that the price levels at which Exchequer assistance should begin to operate should be 112s. in summer and 120s. in winter per cwt. of butter, and 62s. 6d. in summer and 67s. 6d. in winter per cwt. of cheese. At present the average prices of imported butter and cheese are 133s. and 70s. 6d. per cwt. respectively. It is also proposed to provide for an independent review of both standard prices and standard gallonages at three-yearly intervals.
In the new calculation which the Government appear to have made, have they reached any conclusion with regard to the variation in the quantity of milk available for manufacturing purposes; and will the Government guarantee vary in accordance with the number of millions of gallons of milk made available for the manufacture of butter or cheese?
The Government guarantee is based upon a standard gallonage of 125,000,000 gallons for milk made into butter, and 125,000,000 gallons for milk made into cheese. That is the standard gallonage, and the whole price insurance plan is based upon that gallonage. As I said in the last part of my answer, the standard gallonage will be subject to a three-yearly review in the light of the circumstances.
Do I understand that the gallonage of 125,000,000 means that, once the quantity exceeds 125,000,000 gallons, whether for butter or for cheese, the price insurance plan will operate; and that, once the quantity available for manufacture falls below 125,000,000 gallons, the Government guarantee will cease?
No, Sir; all that it means is that, if the standard gallonage is exceeded, the amount of Exchequer assistance per gallon will be pro tanto reduced. It is similar to the operation of the Wheat Act, where the standard amount of wheat guarantees the price. If the amount of wheat exceeds that, the amount of the guarantee is diluted in proportion.
May we regard the procedure to-day with regard to this announcement as a precedent, so that Members of the Opposition can get similar information if they put down a Private Notice question?
I am not quite clear what the right hon. Gentleman means. Perhaps he will explain.
I have always understood that in Private Notice questions, before they can be passed by the Chair, there must be a note of urgency.
That is the case in this particular instance. I have satisfied myself that this was the only opportunity the right hon. Gentleman had of stating his policy to the House.
Will the Secretary of State for War follow the same precedent?
He did not make any application to me to make a statement.
Will this new policy involve an increase in the expenditure of public money?
No, Sir; that depends upon the course of butter and cheese prices. This is a price insurance plan, and the liability of the Exchequer is entirely contingent upon the prices of imported butter and cheese falling below the level specified in my answer.
If I may return to the point of procedure, is it not a fact, with regard to the announcement of an important policy of this kind, that the Government have at their disposal the whole Parliamentary time of the day, and that, if they wished to make an announcement of policy of this kind, which is not urgent, it could have been taken at any time that the Government liked to make the announcement, so that we might have an opportunity of debating it?
Where is our wandering boy to-night?
On a point of Order. Have you any method, Mr. Speaker, of stopping such irrelevant remarks, which prevent a serious answer being given to a serious question?
The hon. Member must recollect that I cannot stop a remark after it is made.
If you cannot prevent it after the remark has been made, can you take steps to prevent similar remarks from being made in the future?
I do not know when such a remark is going to be made.
When the irrelevant remark was made from the other side of the House, I was hoping to get an answer from you, Sir, to my question as to procedure.
The right hon. Gentleman asked me a question which it would be more suitable to put to the Leader of the House. I cannot control the business of the House.
May I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that in deciding whether this matter should be raised in such a form by Members of the Opposition asking questions and making criticisms, account should be taken of the fact that the Government themselves have it in their power to provide time at any period during the Session?
The right hon. Gentleman asks me a question about what is the common practice of the House. It is a common practice in this House, when a statement of policy is to be made, to allow a question to be put to the Minister and the Minister to make a reply. If the right hon. Gentleman asks me whether the Opposition may do the same, my answer is that of course they can.
May I ask the Prime Minister whether, if that procedure is likely to be pursued again, it would not be courtesy to supply the Opposition with a copy of the answer?
I am not of opinion that in this case there was any discourtesy to the Opposition in not supplying them with a copy of the answer. The question which was put to my right hon. Friend, and which he has answered, did not raise any new point of policy, but merely filled in some details of the policy which has already been set out in the White Paper.
This is not the first, but perhaps the fifth or sixth time that a similar statement has been made just on the eve of a Parliamentary Adjournment, when the Opposition have had little or no time to grasp the significance of the statement. When such a statement is made as that which the right hon. Gentleman has made to-day, we have obviously no opportunity of putting relevant questions.
Is not the short point this, that when a Private Notice question is asked by arrangement in order to enable the Government to make a statement of policy, it would be a good plan to let the Leaders of the Opposition parties know?
Is there any reason why the Opposition should be exceptionally favoured in matters of this kind?
Arising out of the original answer, I would like, in view of the very complicated nature of that answer, to ask the right hon. Gentleman a simple question: What, in fact, will the arrangement which the right hon. Gentleman has now made mean in value to the Milk Board per gallon of milk? What will be the value of each gallon of milk sold by the Board, taking into consideration the price obtained for it and the subsidy?
In my amplification of the White Paper policy, I have made it clear that the answer to the hon. Gentleman's question cannot be immediately given. The actual return to the pool depends upon a number of factors, including, in particular, the sort of bargain that the Board are able to drive with the manufacturers of milk. As regards the calculation of the additional advantage in the event of the guarantee coming into operation, that will depend upon the particular formula used for converting the price of imported butter and cheese into milk, and that is a matter which is under discussion at the present moment with the Milk Board.
Surely, under this price insurance scheme, as it has been called, there must be some minimum price which will be guaranteed? May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there is any minimum figure below which the value cannot fall?
As I have said, the price of manufactured milk depends in the first place upon the price which the Milk Board is able to exact from the manufacturers. Therefore, the minimum price will be affected by that also. Another factor of uncertainty which is not yet clear is the precise formula to be used for converting the price of imported cheese and butter into milk, and that, as I have said, is a matter which at present is under discussion. I think that, when the Bill comes to be printed and placed before the House, the hon. Gentleman will be in a position to make a more accurate calculation as to the answer which he requires.
In view of the obvious difficulty of the problem, will the Government make arrangements for a discussion in the House?
I would point out that the arrangements which my right hon. Friend has stated to the House cannot be put into operation without legislation. Therefore, when the Bill is introduced, there will be ample opportunity to discuss the matter.
Arising out of that answer, can the Minister say whether the Financial Resolution will be introduced before the Christmas Recess?
I cannot say that.
Then where was the need for the urgency of the statement?
The fact is that the milk industry itself is extremely anxious as to the position, having regard to its future. These contracts have to be negotiated a long distance in advance, and it is desirable, in the interests of the industry and of all concerned in it, that as early information as possible should be given to them. I have answered this question so as to give the House the first information before I give this amplified information to hon. Members or to deputations. I have informed the House first.
Does that mean that these people are to enter into contracts based upon the assumption that the House will accept this statement and pass the Financial Resolution, without the consent of the House having first been got to the Financial Resolution?
No. No contract will be entered into in advance of legislation being passed. But at the same time there are many preliminary matters which will have to be discussed, and this is one of them. Of course, no board would be so rash as to enter into any contract on the basis of a statement of this kind before Parliament has given its consent to the principles involved.