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Unemployment

Volume 351: debated on Thursday 28 September 1939

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Allowances

1.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will, in view of the increased cost of living, request the Unemployment Assistance Board to increase the allowances to unemployed persons in all suitable cases?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Normanton (Mr. T. Smith) yesterday.

Is it possible for the Unemployment Assistance Board to increase the allowances to these people, in addition to what is called the winter allowance, in respect of the increased cost of living necessity?

The question implies an increased cost, and the hon. Member will understand that the last figures three weeks ago did not show an increase, and we shall not know what the present figures are for another week.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the Unemployment Assistance Board officers have been instructed to exercise a little more discretion in cases where unemployed people have been put to expense in regard to the black-out?

As the hon. Member and the House know, a considerable amount of discretion is exercised, and if the hon. Member has any particular cases to bring before the Board they will no doubt consider them.

5.

asked the Minister of Labour whether unemploy- ment insurance and unemployment assistance children's allowances are still paid to parents of children who have been evacuated under the Government scheme?

In the light of decisions of the Umpire in analogous cases persons in receipt of unemployment benefit whose children have been evacuated under the Government scheme continue for the present to draw dependants benefit. In order to obtain a specific decision by the Umpire steps are being taken to bring a case or cases before him. As regards payments by the Unemployment Assistance Board, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given on 21st September to the hon. Member for Jarrow (Miss Wilkinson), of which I am sending him a copy.

Will it be possible for my right hon. Friend to see that the children's allowances are paid to the people who are actually maintaining the children?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that as things are now the Government are paying twice over?

Is the Minister aware that, if the suggestion of the hon. Gentleman were adopted, as it has been in many places, the net result would be that a man would be left with the whole responsibility for rent and for household expenses on what was a reduced allowance?

Would it not be a good device if in these cases the allowances to the mother and children were paid to the mother?

That is not my responsibility, and the question should be put down to my right hon. Friend.

Is it not the fact that the hon. Member for Blackpool (Mr. R. Robinson) voted for these small sums for the unemployed man's child and now they are not sufficient for Blackpool?

The hon. Member will understand that the hon. Lady the Mem- ber for Jarrow (Miss Wilkinson) puts the opposite point of view.

Miners

12.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give figures showing the number of miners that are unemployed in Wales, England and Scot land, respectively?

Figures for nth September are not yet available. Perhaps the hon. Member will be good enough to repeat his question next week.

Newspaper Staffs (Dismissals)

13.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, in spite of the Government's appeal and the support accorded to it in the Press, many newspapers are themselves dismissing large numbers of their staffs; whether he is aware that in the case of one of the largest groups, comprising London and leading provincial papers, the dismissals total 30 per cent. of personnel; and whether he will make further efforts to impress especially on leaders of public opinion the value of example in maintaining the public morale?

There has been an increase in the number of workers in the printing and newspaper trades registered as unemployed, but I am not aware that these registrations have been made since my right hon. Friend's broadcast appeal or what percentage they represent of the employes of any particular group. A considerable proportion are casual workers. As regards the last part of the question, I desire to emphasise most strongly the value to the national interest of avoiding indiscriminate and unnecessary discharges of employes.

Will the right hon. Gentleman cause inquiries to be made where these dismissals have been taking place during the last week?

If the hon. Gentleman can make his statement a little more specific so that I can have some clear understanding as to what his question refers to, I shall be glad to look into it.

With regard to the part of the answer which states that a great proportion of these dismissals consist of casual workers, is the right hon. Gentleman able to state where he got that information?

Certainly, Sir. That is our official information through the Employment Exchanges.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a great number of those who do not constitute casual workers are not registered at the exchanges?

I am pointing that out. I am dealing with the facts as I know them. You cannot expect information to be got outside the machine about those who do not register through the Ministry of Labour machine.

Is the Minister aware that a large number of shop assistants have been discharged, and that one firm in the West End of London has discharged 300?

I am aware of that, and, as the hon. Member knows, the figures I have given to the House already show that the distributive trade, in London especially, and particularly as regards the employment of women, shows a large proportion of dismissals.

Secondary School Pupils (Employment)

3.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give an assurance to the House that secondary schools shall not be removed from contact with, the ordinary juvenile employment bureaux; and separate administrative staffs shall not be set up for the purpose of dealing with secondary school boys?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. In regard to the second part, committees for giving guidance and assistance to secondary school boys and girls in obtaining employment have existed in the London, Glasgow and Bristol areas for many years. It is not proposed to establish further committees for the present.

Will the right hon. Gentleman keep in mind the fact that if such a move is made, it will arouse resentment on the part of those interested in the elementary schools?

I saw an interesting and amusing article by Sir Percival Sharp on the matter, but my answer shows that he was, perhaps, misinformed.

Overtime Work

6.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider, in con sultation with trade unions, extending facilities for overtime where this appears to be essential?

The question of facilities for overtime is a matter for the employers' organisations and the trade unions to settle, except in so far as restrictions are placed on the overtime of women and young persons by the Factories Act. I understand from the Secretary of State for Home Affairs that in the application of the Factories Act he is proceeding as suggested in the question.

Camp Contracts

7.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a firm carrying out camp contracts is advertising in the Press offering to men the attaction of an 80-hour week with full overtime rate, thereby inducing them to leave other Government contractors abiding by the present maximum of 60 hours, and, as it is undesirable for men in the building trade to be working an 80-hour week in view of the Government's decision that 60 hours shall be the maximum, what steps will be taken to prevent this?

Yes Sir. Inquiry is being made by the contracting department concerned into the circumstances of the case referred to by the hon. Member.

Reserved Occpations(Skilled Workers)

9.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the growing need for pattern-makers, moulders, tool-fitters and instrument-makers; and is he satisfied with present arrangements and the fixing of the age at 23, in view of the high skill of these workers and the fact that they are key men?

Yes, Sir. There is an urgent need for men in these occupations both for the Services and for industry. The present arrangements for the reservation of these men are designed to secure that the majority of such men shall be retained in industry while providing for recruitment of the number required as tradesmen in the Forces.

Railway Workers

8.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the difficulties that have been created on the railways through drivers, firemen, and cleaners leaving the railway service; and, in view of the need to maintain the efficiency of the railways, is he satisfied with the present arrangements and the ages fixed for these grades of railway workers?

Representations on this subject have been made to me and I am looking into the matter.

Education

Meals And Milk (School Children)

14.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education whether he is satisfied that local authorities are making adequate provision to ensure that school children entitled to a free solid meal will continue to receive it?

I have no reason to doubt that, generally speaking, adequate provision is being made for the children in neutral and reception areas. The position in the evacuation areas is more difficult because of the risks involved in the assembling of children; but if steps are taken to limit the number of children assembled at any one time and to provide suitable protection, these risks can be reduced. Certain authorities in the evacuation areas have already reopened their feeding centres with these safeguards and I hope that others will see their way to do so.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what is happening to that large body of school children in neutral and reception areas that had these meals when the schools were open, and will he also draw the attention of the authorities responsible for evacuation areas to the tremendous desirability of continuing the giving of those meals?

Is it not the fact that there are 151 such areas, and is it not, therefore, impossible for the children in the evacuated areas to be fed at school because no arrangements have been made, and could not some arrangements be made by the Board of Education?

21.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education whether local authorities will operate a scheme for the provision of cheap milk to those children now remaining in the evacuated areas who previously received it while at school?

I should welcome a scheme under which children remaining in the evacuation areas could continue to receive milk under the Milk-in-Schools scheme. There are, however, a number of practical difficulties — for example, as to the places at which children would be assembled for this purpose and the numbers who can safely be collected together — and until the question has been further explored I am not in a position to make any definite statement.

If the local authorities can make satisfactory arrangements, will they be allowed to go on with their schemes?

We are exploring at this very moment with the Milk Marketing Board and other interested parties methods to satisfy the needs in the evacuation areas, and I hope to be able to make a statement before long.

If the children are gathered together for education in certain numbers, what is to prevent them from receiving milk in those numbers?

Will the hon. Member consider inviting the local authorities to submit schemes to him?

What is to hinder children from going to certain centres to receive free milk, if the local authorities will arrange for it?

There is nothing to prevent it, providing the centres can be found and the children can be assembled. That is what we are now trying to do.

Evacuated Areas

17.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education whether it is proposed to make arrangements for the education of the children of school age left in London; whether he is aware that the numbers are increasing because of the return of many children who were evacuated; and whether something can be done at an early date to deal with this urgent problem?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for East Lewisham (Sir A. Pownall).

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that one of the results of these schools being closed is that ratepayers and taxpayers are paying for education and the children are being robbed of the advantage of it; and do not the Government realise the necessity of really thinking out a scheme that should come into early operation, so that we shall not have a generation of children growing up illiterate?

I can assure the hon. Baronet that we are fully aware of that, and for that reason we are issuing a circular suggesting an immediate way out.

Will my hon. Friend be careful to do nothing to encourage people to bring back children who have already been evacuated?

That is one of the important points to be taken into account in dealing with this question.

Training Colleges

18.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education whether, in view of the Board's announcement that a training college in an evacuation area may be reopened under conditions, he will state how many colleges have been closed temporarily; and whether, with a view to protecting the interests of students in training and staffs, the Board will use their good offices to preserve, by temporary fusion or amalgamation, the skeleton of the various college organisations?

Up to the present the buildings of 34 out of 80 training colleges have been closed so far as the training of teachers is concerned, either because they are situated in evacuation areas and the authorities of the college have decided not to reopen them, or because they have been requisitioned for other national purposes. The Board's intention, however, is that every training college should resume the training of students either in its own premises or in other premises as soon as possible. The colleges have made a remarkable response to the Board's wishes, and so far as can be ascertained not more than six colleges are in any doubt about resuming training this term: most of the colleges will reopen at the ordinary date or not later than the first week in October.

What is to be done with the staffs of those colleges which have been requisitioned and which will not be reopened? Is the Board going to pay them any compensation?

I cannot answer that question at short notice, but I did mention that only six are in that category.

Public Assistance (Hull)

22.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has given consideration to a proposed scheme from the city of Hull Corporation for the relief of distressed persons in war time; and what financial assistance he will make to that local authority for the effective carrying out of such a scheme?

I have received from the Kingston-upon-Hull Corporation a copy of their proposed scheme for the relief of persons rendered homeless by enemy action in war time and am at present considering the details of the scheme. The Government are prepared to reimburse the corporation the approved cost of any equipment which it may be found necessary to purchase for this purpose, and, in addition, to give financial assistance to meet any substantial additional burden on the rates, over and above the normal level of public assistance expenditure, necessitated by the provision of this service.

Burials

23.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the fees for burial of persons outside the area in which they normally reside are usually double those for residents, sometimes much more; and whether he will provide by regulation for the elimination for the period of the war of the difference between residents and non-residents for this purpose?

I am aware that fees are usually higher for the burial of persons who die outside the area for which the place of burial is provided than for those who die in that area, but I doubt whether the matter is one in which interference with the discretion of local authorities would be justified.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these regulations have been made with his permission and by his authority and that in present circumstances the relatives of a large number of persons will have to pay ten times as much and never less than twice as much if they happen to die outside the parish in which they normally reside? Will he consider that?

I am prepared to give further consideration to the matter, but this is within the discretion of the local authorities, and I am anxious not to interfere with that.

24.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in the interests of national economy, he will consider the issue of sumptuary regulations prohibiting the use of metal embellishments on coffins, the use of expensive woods and varnishes, the use of more than a minimum of cotton-linen or cotton-wool, and the use of wheel biers where possible in preference to motors?

I am anxious not to multiply unnecessarily regulations bearing upon the discretion of individuals, and I doubt if it is desirable to issue particular regulations of the nature suggested.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to make it a penal offence to use ham in obsequies in future?

25.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in the interests of national economy, he will consider the desirability of fixing maximum scales for funerals in order to discourage unnecessary expenditure?

I am afraid that I have no power to fix maximum scales of charges for funerals.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the cost of funerals is at present well over £ 10,000,000 a year and that an air sergeant was recently buried at a cost of £ 27 to his estate, his parents being exceedingly poor; and the fees had to be covered by the Regimental Deaths Act? Will he consider the making of some regulation to deal with this matter as part of a national campaign of economy?

I am afraid that it cannot be done by regulation. It would require legislation.

Civil Defence

Evacuation

27.

asked the Minister of Health whether he can arrange some method by which the local authorities in the reception areas and the teachers who accompanied the children into those areas can communicate to the local authorities and the education authorities in the evacuated areas the needs of some children for additional clothing, and bring to the notice of the parents their responsibility to provide such clothing when they fail to do so at the request of the house holder who is lodging the children?

I have this matter under close consideration and I propose to send a circular on the subject to the local authorities as soon as possible.

28.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the sum of 8s. 6d. per head is being paid in reception areas in respect of children of the secondary schools; that many of these children belong to parents who are comfortably off; and whether he will review the position by asking for a contribution from such parents in order to make up the loss to those in poor circum stances who now board them?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the replies given on the 15th and 20th instant to my hon. Friends the Members for Blackpool (Mr. R. Robin-son) and Wycombe (Sir A. Knox). Certain anomalies in the principle of a flat rate have been brought to my notice and are under consideration.

Will the right hon. Gentleman at an early date be able to come to some conclusion in this matter seeing that in the reception areas there is much dissatisfaction?

32.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will invite parents of evacuated children to make some contribution towards their maintenance in cases where they can afford to do so?

As has already been announced, the Government propose that parents of children who are evacuated in school units under the Government plan and for whose board and lodging and general welfare the householder is made responsible should be asked, where the family circumstances justify, to make a contribution towards the cost. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and I are in consultation with the representative local government bodies on the details of proposals to this end. I hope to be in a position to make a further statement very shortly, but in the meantime I may say that in any case parents will receive full notice and that it is not proposed to ask them to pay contributions retrospectively.

Will the Minister keep in mind the possibility of this charge nullifying the effect of the evacuation, if great care is not exercised?

It is obviously necessary to exercise great care, and I am doing my best to acquaint myself with representative opinion on the subject.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the extra contribution which the parents will have to pay will be paid to the State in relief of the State contribution, or to the householder who receives the children, in respect of the higher cost incurred which is not covered by the State contribution?

It is a case of certain contributions being made by the parents towards the present cost of the scheme, which is being carried wholly by the State.

33.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will take steps to see that arrangements are made by the billeting officers or other authority respon- sible for regular visits to be paid to expectant mothers who have been evacuated to reception areas, in order that the special needs of these mothers may not be overlooked?

The normal public health services include the organised visiting of expectant mothers, and I am taking steps to ensure that such services are available in reception areas for evacuated women as well as for the ordinary population.

35.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the rate of extra allowance proposed to be paid to the householder for undertaking the additional responsibilities of attending upon an expectant mother during confinement is considered inadequate; and whether he will reconsider this matter and increase the payment?

The payment to which the hon. Member refers is applicable in cases where, by agreement with the householder, arrangements are made for the confinement to take place in the billet. The usual arrangements are for the confinement to take place in a maternity hospital or maternity home, and the availability of these arrangements should obviate any difficulty in cases where a householder who was otherwise willing feels unable to provide lodging and attendance for the mother for the payment of 10s. a week.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in some reception areas, my own for example, there are not available sufficient maternity services and homes, and that a good many of the householders will refuse to look after these women, the added responsibility being enormous, for 5s. per week?

The payment is 10s. per week, but naturally the adequacy of the provision of maternity homes is a matter which I shall be willing to look into.

36.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement in reference to the position of unofficial evacuees now resident in reception areas, as considerable dissatisfaction exists as to his decision to discontinue payment of billeting allowance in these cases?

I do not think it is possible to deal satisfactorily with the position of unofficial evacuees within the limits of a Parliamentary question and answer. I may, however, say that billeting allowances have never been payable except in respect of persons of the priority classes who have been moved and billeted under the Government's evacuation scheme. I do not think that the scheme can appropriately deal with the case of individuals who may have elected or who may elect in the future to move on their own account from one part of the country to another. I am not sure whether this meets the hon. Member's point, and if not, and he will let me have particulars, I will look into the matter further.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at the case of people who have been evacuated to South Wales? There are hundreds and thousands of persons, from vulnerable areas, and if satisfactory arrangements are not made these people will go back to the vulnerable areas, which, I gather, is undesirable.

It is a question of priority classes, and I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member has in mind persons of the priority classes or otherwise.

Equipment, Staffordshire

37.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to serious deficiencies in air-raid precautions equipment in the urban district of Aldridge, Staffordshire; and what steps he is taking to remedy these deficiencies?

Substantial supplies of equipment have been issued by the A.R.P. Department to this urban district, in common with all other areas of comparable vulnerability, and I am not aware of any serious deficiencies of any important item. Still further supplies will be sent in due course.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that first-aid wardens in this area are still without civil respirators and many other things, and that deficiencies exist not only in this particular urban district but in every district under the control of the Staffordshire County Council? Is it not time that serious steps were taken to make the county council fulfil its obligation?

I took it that the hon. Member's question related to air- raid precautions equipment in the narrow sense of the term. The first-aid equipment is issued by the Ministry of Health to local authorities. My information is that substantial supplies have been issued to Staffordshire and have been distributed by the Staffordshire County Council throughout the district authorities within the county. If the hon. Member has any specific information I shall be glad if he will let me have it. I will look into it.

With all due respect to the Minister, I have given him a list of specific deficiencies. Does he not consider that iodine in a first-aid equipment should be available, and that if there is a serious deficiency it ought to be remedied?

I have indicated that that is really a matter for the Ministry of Health.

Is it not a fact that the supplies which have been given to the Staffordshire County Council have been delivered in the first place to the most vulnerable areas?

38.

asked the Home Secretary whether the Staffordshire County Council have received all necessary equipment for air-raid precautions purposes to enable them to supply areas under their control; and why distribution has not taken place, or when will adequate supplies be forthcoming?

The equipment issued by my Department to the Staffordshire County Council is that required for county services. In accordance with a general arrangement made by the county council, the equipment for the services provided by the county districts is issued by my Department direct to those districts. The amount so issued is the proper proportion of the available supplies, having regard to the needs of other local authorities in the country.

Has the right hon. Gentleman received any special report from the regional commissioner with regard to Staffordshire, and what is the nature of that report? Does it not call for some serious action on his part?

The hon. Member may be sure that due consideration is given to any report received from the regional commissioner, but I do not think his supplementary question arises out of the question on the Paper.

Air-Raid Shelters

39.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider authorising a free supply of necessary Material to anyone resident in an evacuation or a neutral area who has not yet been supplied with an Anderson shelter and who is willing to construct a shelter to the satisfaction of the local authority in which they live?

This principle is already recognised in Section 26 of the Civil Defence Act. Where, however, the materials are not wholly standardised I think it is better that the local authorities should retain in their own hands the responsibility for their erection.

Am I to take it that there is power given to local authorities to allow the cost of materials to people like working miners who are in a position to build their own shelters, and thus save the cost of an Anderson shelter?

58.

asked the Home Secretary how many Anderson shelters have now been supplied to those people entitled to have them free; how many more are required; and when it is expected that delivery will be completed?

The number of steel shelters allocated to householders up to yesterday is 1,303,400. Production and distribution are proceeding as rapidly as possible but I am afraid I cannot at present give any definite date by which the full programme will be completed.

64.

asked the Home Secretary the number of Anderson shelters that have been supplied to the Wands-worth Borough Council and the number that have been allotted by the council to each of the five parliamentary areas; the number of public shelters erected; and the number of persons they will accommodate?

So far as I have been able to ascertain in the time available the position is as follows: — 19,788 steel shelters have been delivered in the borough of Wandsworth and of those 4,552 have gone to Putney, 3,326 to Wandsworth Central, 6,113 to Tooting, 3,789 to Streatham and 2,008 to Clapham. Public shelters are at present available for about 10,000 people, a number which is being rapidly increased by accelerated progress with the schemes for strengthening basements.

Air-Raid Precautions Workers

42.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the feelings aroused, especially in depressed areas where unemployment is rife, against persons being engaged in paid posts as air-raid wardens who are at the same time running businesses of their own and thereby drawing two incomes at the same time; and will he consider taking steps to deal with this?

Where the authorised establishment of an air-raid precautions service includes a proportion of paid posts the holders of those posts are appointed on a whole-time basis; and local authorities, in making such appointments, are expected to satisfy themselves that the persons concerned are in fact available for whole-time duty. If the hon. Member has a particular case in mind, perhaps he will send me details.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman see the futility of laying down a condition of that kind, when a publican can transact all his business in his public house and still do full-time duty for 3 per week, while an unemployed man cannot?

I presume that the hon. Member has a particular case in mind. Perhaps he will give me the information.

Is it not the case that these appointments are made by the police and not by the local authority? At any rate, they have been appointed by the police in my own area?

I do not think that can be quite correct. There may be cases where the chief officer of police is in charge of air-raid precaution services under the local authority. It is only in that way that the chief officer of police can make appointments.

43.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that coal miners who have been unemployed for several years and who have for some time past been voluntary air-raid wardens, are refused paid posts in that capacity be cause they are listed in the schedule of reserved occupations; and will he take steps to remove this anomaly?

The schedule of reserved occupations places restrictions upon the engagement for whole-time service in the Defence Services of persons in certain occupations which are of essential importance in war-time. It is clearly undesirable that such persons should be employed whole-time in the Defence Services if they are likely to be required for essential work in their own occupations, as I presume is the case with the coal miners to whom the hon. Member refers.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman see the anomaly? There are hundreds of miners unemployed in my constituency, they have been unemployed for eight and ten years, their occupation has gone, and now they are told that they are in the list of reserved occupations when the authorities know that they will never be coal miners again?

In that case, so far as I am concerned, the hon. Member will appreciate that I have no power to override the schedule of reserved occupations. I am bound by that schedule, and I suggest that his question should be addressed to one of my colleagues.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult his colleague the Minister of Labour, who is really responsible for all this trouble?

44.

asked the Home Secretary how many persons previously employed by local authorities under trade union conditions entitling them to payment for overtime have, during the present war, become employed as air raid precautions volunteers on work similar to that of their previous employment as such volunteers are inconsistent with trade union conditions and with the collective agreements under which they were previously working, and, in particular, provide for no overtime payment; in how many such cases men are working twice as long for very little more remuneration than previously; how many such men have been removed or released from their positions as such volunteers owing to their having claimed overtime payment or other trade union conditions; what instructions or circulars he has issued suggesting or requiring such refusal of overtime payments or removal or release; and in how many cases men who on such release have returned to their municipal employment have been informed that they will be dismissed as soon as air-raid precautions volunteers have been trained to do their work?

I am not in possession of the detailed information for which the hon. and learned Member asks and in present circumstances I should be reluctant to add to the labours of local authorities by asking them to obtain it. 1 may say, however, that the decision not to make payment for hours of duty in excess of a normal working day applies only to those who have enrolled as whole-time volunteers in Civil Defence organisations. I am sending the hon. and learned Member copies of the two circulars that have been issued by my Department on this subject.

49.

asked the Home Secretary what steps are being taken to release air-raid precautions paid workers of military age for training purposes?

Men are not yet being called up under the provisions of the National Service (Armed Forces) Act, 1039, and accordingly this question has not yet arisen

Would they not be protected by reason of the fact that they arc air-raid precautions workers?

Lighting Restrictions

45.

asked the Home Secretary whether his regulations provide that the hotel proprietor or the occupier of a hotel room is liable for an infraction of the black-out regulations due entirely to the carelessness of the occupier?

The Lighting (Restrictions) Order was made under Regulation 24 of the Defence Regulations, 1939, and I would refer my hon. Friend to the proviso to paragraph (2) of that Regulation.

46.

asked the Home Secretary whether limited street lighting may be allowed in any town where it is possible to turn off all street lighting from a control switch immediately the necessity arises?

59.

asked the Home Secretary whether consideration will be given to the possibility of restoring some measure of street lighting wherever such lighting can be extinguished at a moment's notice?

61.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered the present lighting system in Paris; and whether he will consider adopting a similar system in London?

In Paris the electric street lighting in the main thoroughfares is centrally controlled and could be extinguished at once when an air-raid warning was received. In this country only a very few towns have a system of street lighting so controlled that it could be extinguished at a moment's notice; and, even where this type of lighting is installed, I am not at present satisfied that the balance of advantage lies on the side of leaving the lights to be extinguished when a warning is received. The whole problem of lighting restriction is now, however, under review in the light of the knowledge gained during these first few weeks' experience of black-out conditions, and I hope to be in a position to make the results of this review known in the near future.

Can my right hon. Friend say what possible disadvantage there can be in a town which has had the good sense to provide itself with a centrally-controlled switch for street lighting having its streets lighted and switching off the lighting when it gets an air-raid warning? What possible reason can there be against that?

I can assure my hon. Friend that there are weighty arguments that can be put forward against the lighting of particular limited areas in the centre of larger areas which are completely obscured. There are also arguments against plunging people suddenly into darkness at the precise moment when the air-raid warning is received. This is a matter on which there is something to be said on both sides. As I have said, the whole question is being now brought . under careful review.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Barcelona and Valencia, where the main switch controlled the lighting of the town, this form of lighting proved very effective, reduced the loss of life on the streets to the absolute minimum, and that instead of thousands of people being responsible for putting out lights, only one person was responsible? Will he consider the matter from that point of view?

:Would it not be possible for a small number of enemy aircraft to reach big industrial centres without any warning having been given, if they were flying sufficiently high?

47.

asked the Home Secretary what is the present position with regard to lighting restrictions as affecting cupolas in iron foundries; to what extent schemes have been adopted for diminishing the glare; whether he is aware that where this has been done at considerable expense, local authorities have refused to permit night work; and whether he will consider whether the public safety permits the lighting restrictions coming into force 30 minutes after sunset, thus giving another fortnight under normal working conditions?

My Department have been in consultation with the British Cast Iron Research Association as to the most efficacious means of dealing with glare from cupolas in iron foundries. The Association have recently issued to all their members a memorandum dealing fully with the subject and inviting firms to put to them any special foundry conditions not covered by the memorandum. No case has been brought to my notice in which the police have prohibited night work at premises where effective provision for screening has been made. I have considered the suggestion made in the last part of the question, but I am advised that it would be undesirable, from the point of view of security, to delay the application of the lighting restrictions until 30 minutes after sunset.

If I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to certain cases where the police have acted in this way, will he go into the matter?

Refugees (National Service)

48.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is now able to state the progress made by the special tribunals which are reviewing all cases of German, Austrian, and Czechoslovakian refugees; and, in view of the great anxiety of many of these to render service to Great Britain, will he make a public statement setting out clearly to what office and address they should apply provisionally for service, military or civil?

The tribunals are now starting their examinations. I realise the anxiety felt by many of the refugees to whom the hon. Member refers, but, as previously stated, the first step must be to pass their cases under examination by the tribunals. After this has been done it will be open to those who are exempted from the restrictions applicable to enemy aliens to offer their services to the Defence Forces or as voluntary workers for any kind of Civil Defence service for which they may be suitable.

Will they be informed to whom they should address themselves when they have been passed by the tribunals?

I thought the intention was that they should apply in the same way as other people, but if there is any lack of information on that point, I will see what can be done.

Will their cases be examined in writing or must they be present before the tribunals?

I am not quite certain, but I think the tribunals are given a certain discretion.

May I ask the Government to remember that there is a very large number of people of British nationality who are anxious to serve their country, and will he see that their services are employed before those of foreigners residing in this country?

Seeing that Czechoslovakian refugees have not to go before the tribunals, is there any necessity for these Czechoslovakian refugees to await the decision of the tribunals before applying for work?

The original question applied only to those aliens whose cases come before the tribunals.

Workers' Hours

52.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the wide-spread desire of workers to get home before darkness sets in, he will consider an adjustment of Home Office regulations during the winter months enabling the daily meal-time to be reduced to half an hour and work to continue on Saturday afternoons until sunset thus enabling a normal wage to be earned in daylight?

I understand that the question of re-arranging the usual working hours and meal-times and of including at any rate some work on Saturday afternoon, with a view to working so far as possible in daylight, is under discussion between employers and workpeople in various industries and if in any particular factory or industry it appears that to enable such arrangements to be made some modification is required of the provisions of the Factories Act which regulate the employment of women and young persons, I shall be willing to consider the question of granting appropriate exemptions.

Whole-Time Volunteers

54.

asked the Home Secretary what is the estimated weekly cost to the local authorities and Government combined of those employed to stand by in case of air raids, including wardens, firemen, supplementaries, reserves, first aids, ambulance and motor-car drivers, &c; and whether he is taking any and, if so, what steps to reduce this expenditure and to set free the motor cars which have been requisitioned?

As stated on 21st September in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Stockton-on-Tees (Mr. Harold Macmillan), local authorities have been asked to furnish particulars of whole-time volunteeers enrolled for Civil Defence purposes at present on their pay rolls. These returns are now being received, but it is not yet possible to give a reliable estimate of the total cost. With regard to the second part of the question, steps have been taken in a number of areas to reduce the whole-time paid personnel originally called up, in so far as this can be done without impairing the efficiency of the services or their readiness for action. The whole question of the adjustment of our Civil Defence organisation to war conditions is receiving the closest attention. Action has also been taken to notify local authorities that vehicles needed for ordinary transport should not be kept standing idle in the Civil Defence services. I hope it will be found that a considerable number of vehicles may be released under arrangements which will leave them readily available to the local authorities if air raids come.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say in what areas the expenses are being cut down, and, in particular, whether Staffordshire is one of those areas?

I cannot give a specific reply on the spur of the moment. The facts are being ascertained for the whole country, and, on the basis of the facts, such reductions as are possible, consistent with maintaining a constant state of readiness, will be effected.

Is my right hon. Friend asking the local authorities themselves to make recommendations as to the extent to which personnel can be cut down?

The local authorities will be given general guidance and will be asked to take such steps as may be possible to give effect to the standards laid down.

:Will the Home Secretary see that the adjustments to which he referred in his answer are effected at the earliest possible moment, in view of the urgent necessity for economy?

Commercial Buildings (Night Watching)

56.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that under the Civil Defence Act tenants, not landlords, of commercial buildings are under obligation to provide a night fire-watching party as well as at week-ends while their staffs number 30 or more, and that, as it is impossible for them to do this in addition to providing fire-guards during business hours, what steps he proposes to overcome this obligation which has proved difficult to work?

I think there is some misunderstanding. The Civil Defence Act does not require employers to provide fire-watching parties. The danger of fires from incendiary bombs is, however, so great that every possible step should be taken to prevent a small fire from spreading and becoming a serious conflagration; and as fires might occur at times when the staff employed in the building were not there, it is important that a few trained men should, at any rate in the more vulnerable areas, be on the premises always. I hope, therefore, that employers will co-operate with the fire brigade services by night as well as by day, not only for the protection of their own premises, but also for the benefit of the community.

Air-Raid Precautions Signs

60.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the lack of standardisation of air-raid precautions signs of every description and their lighting; whether any instructions on the subject have been issued by his Department; and what steps he proposes to take to ensure such standardisation throughout the country?

The view hitherto taken is that, provided the signs are legible and visible, their standardisation is not of great importance; but the matter is being looked into.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of these signs are not lighted at night, and is it not essential that directions to air-raid shelters should be lighted?

The hon. Gentleman will observe that I did make the qualification, "provided the signs are legible and visible."

Burning Slag-Heap, Writhlington

65.

asked the Home Secretary whether any steps are to be taken to deal with the illumination at night provided by the burning slag-heap at Writhlington, in view of the fact that nearby villages are blacked out?

By inter-departmental arrangement the supervision of burning spoil-heaps is undertaken by alkali inspectors of the Ministry of Health. This particular heap has been visited on a number of occasions in recent months. I understand that when the heap was last visited it was found that the flames had been quenched and only a slight smouldering was visible.

Can my right hon. Friend take my assurance that at present there is considerable light from this heap, and that villagers in adjacent villages find it a little incomprehensible that they should be subject to a black-out, when there is this glare in their neighbourhood?

This heap has been visited four or five times in the last year, the last visit being on 29th August, and, as I have said, at that time no flames were visible. It may be that a further fire has broken out and another special visit will be made.

Jewish Refugees, Brighton

30.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will inquire as to the number of Jewish refugees in Brighton who have thrown up their work and become a charge on the Brighton rates?

I have made inquiries and I am informed that only three Jews who have come to Brighton since the outbreak of war had received relief from the Brighton public assistance authority up to yesterday morning.

Has the right hon. Gentleman seen a statement that was made in the Brighton Town Council that whole streets of Jews have thrown up their jobs and come upon the rates, and may I ask whether that is typical of the anti-Semitic, pro-Hitler propaganda in Brighton?

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many non-Jews have applied for relief?

Housing Materials,Yorkshire

34.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that certain small builders who are erecting houses for sale to working men in parts of Yorkshire are unable to obtain materials to complete them; and will he take steps to get priority in such cases so that the houses in course of construction can be completed?

In the present situation it will not be possible to complete all houses now under construction, and accordingly I have regretfully been compelled to ask local authorities to complete only those houses in an advanced stage of construction. I should be willing, if the hon. Member would give me particulars of any case he has in mind, to have the matter looked into from this point of view.

Where houses are being erected for working men who obviously cannot afford to lose the money they have advanced or which has been advanced by building societies, will he make it possible for such houses to be completed?

There are two points, the physical possibility of completion, which is a matter of material and labour and, secondly, the financial loss arising out of the arrest of such building. The second point, obviously, falls under the discretion of the courts under the Emergency Powers scheme.

Local Government Elections

50.

asked the Home Secretary whether it is intended to suspend the municipal elections?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave yesterday to a question by the hon. Member for West Salford (Mr. Emery).

Does the reply include county councils as well as other local authorities?

Regional Commissioners

51.

asked the Home Secretary the names of the various Regional Commissioners and deputies; the salaries paid to each individual; the names of those who are accepting salaries and those offering themselves without salary, and in the case of those giving voluntary service, the amount of expenses paid per day; and whether Members of Parliament are permitted to serve without resigning their seats?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to a question in identical terms on Tuesday last.

Regional Commissioners'offices (Access Members Of Parliament)

53.

asked the Home Secretary when passes will be issued to Members of Parliament in their area to the offices of the Regional Commissioner?

This is a matter which has been left to the discretion of the Regional Commissioners, and I understand that such passes have already been issued from the office of the Regional Commissioner in whose region my hon. Friend's constituency lies.

I think it depends on the arrangements that can be made at the particular office for dealing with visitors.

Do I understand my right hon. Friend to say that the Regional Commissioner has the right to refuse a Member of Parliament a pass if he thinks fit to do so?

I think the Regional Commissioner has the right to regulate the business of the Department of which he is the head.

Surely Members of Parliament have the right of access to Regional Commissioners?

There is no suggestion to the contrary. It simply means that in certain buildings not originally designed for the purposes to which they are now being put, it is an advantage for those who have constant business to transact there to be able to go straight in, instead of waiting to be dealt with at the door in the ordinary way.

Is it clear that a Member of Parliament has access to the Regional Commissioner by right and not by grace?

I should say that the answer clearly is that a Member of Parliament in dealing with persons in the office of a Regional Commissioner is in exactly the same position as he occupies in relation to the Departments in Whitehall.

Aliens

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of Wing-Commander JAMES:

55. To ask the Home Secretary whether, in view of the co-operation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics with the German Government in attacking Poland, a close watch will henceforth be kept upon their agents and activities in this country; and whether he will assure the House that in this respect, no differentiation will be made between Russians and Germans?

On a point of Order. May I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, that, in the national interest, you should not call this question?

Careful watch is kept on all activities which may be prejudicial to the public safety regardless of the nationality of the persons engaged in those activities; and my hon. and gallant Friend can be assured that the attention given to persons of enemy nationality does not entail neglect of the activities of other persons.

Will my right hon. Friend make a start with the "Daily Worker" and those persons associated with it, in this House and outside?

Will the right hon. Gentleman also keep an eye on the activities of those people who up to the outbreak of war, were friends of strengthening relations with Germany?

67.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to the case of Mr. J. J. Kopp, who was arrested as an alien and who has not been allowed to communicate with his secretary or to have his whereabouts revealed; and whether he will appoint a committee, including Members of Parliament drawn from all sides of the House, to which cases of this nature can be submitted for prompt decision?

As already announced, a committee of which Sir Walter Monckton is chairman, has been appointed to review cases of persons who have been interned for reasons of public security, and I propose to refer to this committee for their advice cases of enemy aliens who have been so interned unless I am satisfied that no further consideration of the case is necessary. In the particular case to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers, I understand that the alien's whereabouts have been made known to his solicitor, but I am making further inquiries into the circumstances of his arrest.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he was very badly treated, and will he say that he did treat him badly? I hope he will be better treated in future.

I have made no admission. What I have said is that I will look into the circumstances, and if I think there is any reasonable ground of complaint after inquiry, I shall not hesitate to say so.

Can my right hon. Friend deny that the solicitor was not communicated with?

I believe there was some delay, and that is one of the points that I am looking into.

Mercantile Marine (Spanish Seamen)

63.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that Spanish seamen who take service in British ships will lose their nationality; and whether he is prepared to recommend that such seamen should be allowed to remain in the United Kingdom and after the statutory period should be entitled to apply for certificates of naturalisation?

I am unaware of any provision in Spanishlaw whereby a Spanish seaman who serves as a member of the crew of a British ship would thereby lose his nationality, but I am causing inquiries to be made into the matter. No general undertaking can be given that foreign seamen will be allowed to remain in the United Kingdom with a view to becoming eligible for naturalisation, but if in any special cases there are grounds for giving favourable consideration to men who can render useful service in British ships, such cases would be considered on their merits.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that many Spanish seamen were left in this country during the Spanish Civil War and are threatened with loss of nationality for serving in British vessels? Is he also aware that there is difficulty in obtaining sufficient crews for the Mercantile Marine and that these men are very anxious to render service?

As regards the first part of the question, I have said that that is being looked into. I realise the importance of the matter referred to in the other part of the question.

Death Duty Evasion

68.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in considering any new methods of taxation for war finance, he will deal with the evasion of death duties by wealthy families who put their private fortunes into family pools?

I am, as I stated in the course of the Debate on the April Budget, having a survey made of the present state of legislation dealing with Death Duty evasion generally, and I shall not hesitate 10 lay before the House such further proposals for legislation as are shown to be required.

Defence Loans

69.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount raised or authorised by way of loan for the re armament programme, and the annual interest charges since April, 1937?

As the reply is a long one and contains a number of figures, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the reply:

I assume that the hon. Member refers to the raising and issue of money under the Defence Loans Acts, 1937 to 1939. Under those Acts Parliament authorised issues to Defence Votes during the two financial years 1937–38 and 1938–39, amounting to £ 211,904,000 in all, and the actual amount issued was £ 192,917,000. For the current financial year the issues authorised on the basis of Estimates presented to date amount to £ 502,430,000, of which £ 68,500,000 has so far been issued. To provide for these issues £ 99,660,000 was raised by the issue of 2½ per cent. National Defence Bonds in April, 1937, and £ 79,596,000 by the issue of 3 per cent. National Defence Loan in June, 1938; £ 28,785,000 was provided by the Budget surplus for 1937–38, and the balance has been covered by an increase in the floating debt.

As regards interest charges, if the hon. Member refers to the actual cost of interest to the Exchequer, I regret that it is not possible to give any firm figure. The two Defence Loans referred to above had to be raised as suitable market opportunities presented themselves and the raising of them did not coincide with the issues to Defence Votes. Also, the surplus from 1937–38 was temporarily used to reduce floating debt until it was required for issue to Defence Votes during 1938–39. Finally the interest payable on the balance of issues covered from time to time by an increase of floating debt varies from week to week.

I should add, however, that under the Defence Loans Acts provision is made for payment of interest by the Defence Departments to the Exchequer at the rate of 3 per cent. per annum. At this rate the annual charge for interest on the total amounts issued in 1937–38 and 1938–39 or authorised to be issued in the current year, namely, £ 695,347,000, will be £20,860,000.

War Damage Claims

70.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when the forms of claim in respect of damage to property referred to in the Treasury announcement of 6th September will be available to property owners?

Distribution of the forms of claim to local authorities and district valuers, Inland Revenue Department, is rapidly proceeding and will be completed within the next few days. As my hon. Friend will appreciate, a property owner will not need a form of claim unless and until he suffers loss or damage of the nature mentioned in the announcement referred to.

Gold Coin Offerings

71.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that many people anxious to offer private holdings of gold coin to the Government through their bankers have been unable to do so owing to some of the branch banks having no instructions for accepting such offerings, and that in one case recently an application direct to the bullion department of the Bank of England was refused; and whether this means that the Treasury order that all private holdings of gold coin or bullion must be offered to the Government through the holder's bank for payment in sterling at the prevailing rate has been withdrawn?

Gold coins should certainly be accepted by branch banks when offered to them for sale to the Treasury, and no variation has been made in the Regulation on this point. If instances of refusal have occurred in individual cases, there must have been misapprehension on the part of the branch concerned as to its exact functions under the Regulations, but I must add that the banks as a whole have admirably carried out the heavy tasks imposed upon them by the Defence (Finance) Regulations. Persons offering gold coin should deal through their own bank and not through the Bank of England.

If I bring to my right hon. Friend's notice cases where gold coins have been refused by banks which were the bankers of the persons offering them, will he look into them?

Government Departments

Expenditure

72.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the necessity of husbanding the financial resources of the country so as to make them available to the utmost for the prosecution of the war, he will consider not only examining departmental expenditure, but also forming a flying financial squad periodically to examine the working of the many new departments which are being established in London and the provinces in order to ensure that they may be operated with the utmost economy?

My hon. Friend will have in mind what I said on this subject yesterday. I shall be replying to the Debate on the Budget to-night, and I shall then be making a further reference to the subject of my hon. Friend's question.

Public Record Office

73.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury why the Public Record Office has been closed to research and when it will be reopened?

The most valuable of the records in the Public Record Office are in process of being removed from the building for safe keeping, and special steps are being taken to rearrange and protect the residue. The existing staff are at present fully occupied with the work of removal and protection. In these circumstances a large proportion of the records must remain for the time being unavailable for public inspection, and I am afraid that it is not at present possible to say when the Search Department will be reopened.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that only a very few of the most valuable documents have been removed, and is it not possible that he can give some idea to students when the Record Office will again be opened?

War Work (Women's Pay)

74.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he will take steps to see that in all war work for which the Government is responsible the principle of equal pay for men and women doing similar work is operated, thus setting an example to municipalities and private employers where very great discrepancies