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Civil Defence

Volume 359: debated on Thursday 18 April 1940

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Evacuation (Children)

24.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that some children, whose schools have been evacuated from a vulnerable to a nearby safe area, are living at home, travelling to and from school each day, whilst others come home for week-ends regularly; and whether he will state the number of such children?

I understand that the conditions to which the hon. Member refers do obtain in a small number of cases, but I am afraid that I could not give the number of children concerned.

How can the right hon. Gentleman suggest that there is only a small number of cases when he does not know the number?

26.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the small percentage of parents who have registered for the evacuation of their children in the event of intensive air raids, the Government have any other plan for the evacuation of children by voluntary or compulsory means if the necessity becomes imperative?

The Government's plans provide for the orderly evacuation of children in school parties. The operation of these plans is not governed by the numbers who have registered since the plans were prepared, but I am reviewing the position in the light of all the information now to hand.

Camouflage

41.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can give an estimate of the expenditure upon camouflage up to the present date; whether he is aware that the application of paint for purposes of war camouflage can be adequately carried out by ordinary workmen if provided with the necessary scientific supervision; and what steps he is taking to secure this, as the artistic representation of one type of object on another, as, for example, of trees upon the walls of a cooling tower or hangar, is of negligible camouflage value?

My Department have approved estimates for civil camouflage work amounting to over £440,000. It is the practice for camouflage painting to be done on contract with ordinary painting firms. I am advised that supervision by scientists is not necessary at that stage if—as is the case with camouflage work carried out under the control of my Department—scientific direction has been applied at an earlier stage in the preparation by experts of a detailed scheme, based where necessary on aerial observation, before the painting work is put out to contract.

42.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that, in view of the subject of camouflage having assumed urgent practical importance, the appointment of a special advisory committee on this subject was announced in the beginning of August; that the committee was summoned to meet for the first time in October; that the chairman and the two members of the committee possessing the requisite scientific and practical qualifications have now resigned or expressed their desire to resign; and whether he will make a statement?

As I informed my hon. Friend on 19th October, it is the fact that the committee held its first meeting in October, but this did not occasion any delay in the progress of urgent work. The committee has had 13 meetings, and has given valuable advice to the Department. The chairman has found it necessary to resign owing to the pressure of other public work. I have been examining the question of camouflage in the light of the experience gained since the war, and I propose some reorganisation of this work. The advisory committee is about to be reconstituted with some modification of its functions. It is true that two of the members expressed a wish to resign before the reconstitution of the committee was decided upon, but I hope to be able to make arrangements by which the assistance they are in a position to render may still be available to the Department.

Shelters (Falkirk And District)

43.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is now in a position to supply the Falkirk and district area of Stirlingshire with steel shelters and other protection against air-raids; and whether he will now include the district in the protected areas?

The Eastern No. 1 District of Stirlingshire, to which I take it the hon. Member refers, was made a specified area, for the purposes of Part III of the Civil Defence Act, by Order dated 29th January, 1940. An initial allocation of 600 steel shelters has been made to this area.

Can the Minister assure us that this is to be continued until the whole area is properly protected?

I hope to be able to make a further allocation of shelters to that area. But I hope to be making a general reply on the subject of steel shelters later this afternoon.

What does my right hon. Friend propose to do with those shelters which are not yet erected or which have been erected and used for purposes other than those for which they were intended?

Sick Pay Scheme

59.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that Mr. J. La Thangue, of 132, Aldborough Road, Seven Kings, a civil defence volunteer, who was injured in the course of air-raid precautions training in Dagenham on the 24th November last, cannot get compensation for the injuries because the accident occurred before the sick pay scheme announced by the air-raid precautions department, Circular No. 313/1939, had come into operation, which scheme was not retrospective; and will he make this scheme retrospective to meet such cases?

Compensation for injuries sustained on duty by civil defence volunteers is governed, not by the Circu- lar mentioned but by the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, 1939, and I am informed that Mr. La Thangue has received and continues at present to receive the payments to which he is entitled under that scheme.

60.

asked the Home Secretary what is the approximate number of persons who would receive grants if the sick pay scheme announced by the air-raid precautions department, Circular No. 313/1939, were made retrospective in operation?

Education Authorities' Expenditure

65.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will make provision for the local education authorities, as such, to be consulted when the revision of grants under the 1937 Act relating to air-raid precautions is taking place, in view of their peculiar position and the dispute which has arisen between these authorities and his Department?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave on 4th April to a Question by the hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr. Whiteley).

As the answer was in the negative on that occasion, may I ask the Home Secretary what are the grounds upon which he refuses to give a hearing to these people?

I have not refused to hear anyone, and I have no desire to exclude anyone, but I have been dealing with local bodies responsible for the control of local government finance. I think that is constitutional and right.

Is the Minister not aware that autonomous powers are given to the majority of the large local education authorities, and that the people with whom he is dealing are not familiar with the matter under discussion?

As I have previously explained, the matter under discussion is the burden thrown upon the finances of local authorities by civil defence work.

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of this reply, and frequent replies on other occasions, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

Munition Workers (Health)

68.

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to set up any committee, such as that set up in 1915, to consider the health of munition workers; and what steps are being taken at the present time to ensure that the output of munition works, and other undertakings engaged in Government contract work, does not suffer through the enforcement of long hours, reduction of holidays and worsening of conditions generally?

The Health of Munition Workers' Committee was succeeded by the Industrial Health Research Board, which is still in active operation; and since the last war there have been considerable developments in the matter of industrial welfare. The Board have just issued a special report, called "Industrial Health in War," containing recommendations as to hours of work and other matters. The Government have prominently in mind the importance of avoiding the mistaken policy of attempting to increase output by excessively long hours and other arrangements which are liable to diminish the workers' speed and efficiency. The question what further steps can advantageously be taken to ensure that this aspect of the problem of production receives full attention by all concerned is one on which I am at the present time in consultation with the Supply Departments and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that in the last war the special departments of the hospitals were flooded with cases of injury sustained in munitions manufacture and that it was found that medical treatment in the early phases of these disorders was very successful in shortening their duration? Will he take thought for the provision of early medical treatment in the present position?

Could the right hon. Gentleman say if investigations have proved the effect of long hours on the costings staffs in shipyards?

Air Raid Wardens (Refund Of Pay)

71.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what sums he has received since the beginning of the war from the air-raid precautions wardens of the Virginia Water group of the Egham Urban District Council, being refund of their pay as air-raid precautions wardens, voluntarily offered by wardens of this group for expenditure on some other national purpose?

Sums amounting in all to £300 have been received. I am sure the House will share the appreciation which I have already conveyed to the donors of their public-spirited action.

Can the Chancellor of the Exchequer state whether any similar sums have been received from any other groups in the country?

Housing (Post-War Planning)

29.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has prepared, or is preparing, large necessary schemes of building, including especially slum-clearance, which will provide considerable employment in the building industry immediately after demobilisation?

As it is not possible, at present, to forecast with any degree of confidence the nature or the extent of the housing problems which will arise during the war, I feel that it would be premature to take such steps as my hon. Friend suggests. I can assure him, however, that, as each such problem arises and is dealt with, I shall consider its possible effect on post-war conditions, as I am anxious that, when the war ends, local authorities shall be able to proceed at once with housing schemes. An immediate start will be possible in the case of those slum clearance and other housing schemes which were begun before the war and which may remain uncompleted when hostilities cease.

Tuberculosis (Wales And Monmouthshire)

34.

asked the Minister of Health the number of tubercular patients in Wales and Monmouthshire now waiting for admission to sanatoria; whether the number on the waiting list is on the increase; and whether steps are being taken to provide a sufficient number of beds fully to meet the needs?

On 1st April last there were 258 patients awaiting admission to sanatoria in Wales and Monmouthshire. The number was 272 at the corresponding period of last year, and 357, 369 and 183 at the three intervening quarters respectively. As the hon. Member is aware, construction of additional hospitals to accommodate nearly 1,000 patients is in hand at Denbigh and Chepstow; the former hospital is approaching completion, and the latter is expected to be completed in September next.

Is the Minister satisfied that in the future there will be ample accommodation for the whole of these cases?

The accommodation should cover the present waiting list itself, although, of course, as the hon. Member knows, accommodation in North Wales is not always usable by patients in other parts of Wales.

Public Assistance (Invalids' Rent)

36.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that, in the case of certain invalids, such as tuberculosis patients, on public assistance and forbidden by medical advice to work, great hardship is sometimes caused by the inadequate nature of relief in districts where the rent level is abnormally high; and whether, therefore, he will take steps to see that public assistance committees pay the rent in such cases, at any rate, when it exceeds a specified amount and where other accommodation is not available?

I have no evidence of any general hardship arising in this way. It is the normal practice of public assistance authorities in granting relief to have regard to the amount of rent paid by the applicant; but if the hon. Member has any particular case in mind and will let me have details, I will have inquiry made into it.

Welsh Board Of Health

35.

asked the Minister of Health what additional duties are to be placed on the Welsh Board of Health, and from what date are the additional duties to be undertaken?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Denbigh (Sir H. Morris-Jones) on 15th February. The powers which I then mentioned will be exercised through the Welsh Board of Health on and from 1st May. Details of the new arrangements will be given in a circular shortly to be addressed to Welsh local authorities, of which I will send the hon. Member a copy.

Naval And Military Pensions And Grants

38.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware of the application for a pension made by Mrs. E. J. Mullins, of 42, Rydal Avenue, Warrington, widow of Mr. Michael Mullins, late driver, Royal Army Service Corps; that Mullins was passed A1 on 4th January, reported at Shrewsbury on 10th January, and died from heart failure, caused by bronchitis, on 19th January; and whether, in view of the probability that death was attributable to the severe weather under Army conditions, Mrs. Mullins' claim for a pension will be reconsidered?

It has not been possible in the time available to obtain the papers regarding this case. I will, however, look into it and write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

May I further ask whether it can be assumed when an individual is passed A.1 by the authorities and afterwards while serving in the Army he contracts a disease from which he dies, that a case can be established for a pension?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is an old grievance and that it really should receive very serious attention? If a man dies within a fortnight of joining the Service, is it not a logical conclusion that either there has been something wrong with the medical inspection of that man or else a pension should automatically be granted to his family?

I can assure the hon. Member that all these cases do receive careful consideration by myself personally. I do understand the feeling there is in this matter, in the House and in the country generally.

In view of the feeling which the right hon. Gentleman appreciates, does he not think that the time has now come when some reconsideration might be given to the question whether there should be some opportunity for a third party to assist in these disputed cases instead of leaving the Minister to be the judge, jury and witness in his own case?

India (Political Situation)

39.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India, whether he has any further statement to make respecting the present political position in India?

I would ask the hon. Member to await the statement which I shall be making this afternoon in moving the Motions which stand in my name.

Factories (Chief Inspector's Report)

40.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the many changes in factory life brought about by the emergency, he will issue the annual report of the Chief Inspector of Factories this year, before the end of June?

The Chief Inspector of Factories is anxious to issue this report as early as he can, but I regret that it is not possible to promise that it will be ready before the end of June. Work on the preparation of the report cannot be given precedence over other urgent duties, including duties connected with the war.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that every year there is great difficulty about this report, and that this is about the only report of a Government Department that is not issued in time?

I can assure the hon. Member that we are doing our best to get the report out.

Is it not true that if we ask unnecessary questions about factories, it takes the inspectors off their job, and really defeats the very object we have in mind?

Truck Acts (Government Proposals)

44.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has completed his examination of the position consequent on the recent decision of the House of Lords regarding the operation of the Truck Acts; and whether he is now in a position to make a statement?

I am advised that the effect of the decision of the House of Lords in the recent case of Pratt v. Cook, is that in certain classes of case an employer may not contract to remunerate a workman, for example, with £3 a week, plus meals valued at say 10s., even where he could legally have contracted to pay £3 10s. less 10s. for meals supplied, and that where a contract has been in the form now declared to be illegal, claims can be made for the recovery of the remuneration not paid in cash over a period of 20 years past. The result is that a number of workpeople, in various employments, who have been supplied with food or other things as part of their remuneration, in some cases with specific trade union agreement, can, if the contract happens to have been cast in the form now declared to be illegal, claim to be remunerated twice over. Some claims of this kind have already been launched, and there is reason to believe that others are contemplated.

In future, any contracts must be in a form which complies with the provisions of the Truck Acts, as now interpreted by the House of Lords, and it is not proposed to amend those provisions; but it appears to the Government to be necessary and proper to legislate for the purpose of preventing claims as regards the past which have no merits and would, if pursued, tend to disturb good relations between employers and employed. They accordingly propose to introduce at once a Bill to bar claims, under Section 4 of the Truck Act of 1831,for the payment in cash of remuneration which was, in fact, provided in the form of food or some other thing, in those cases in which it would have been legal to contract to pay a higher nominal money wage but to make deductions from that wage in respect of the food or other thing provided. The Bill will provide for the discharge of proceedings which have already been started, subject to such Order as to costs as the Court may think proper. Judgments given or settlements reached before to-day will not be interfered with.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his statement, might I ask what would be the position as regards any judgments that might be obtained after to-day and before the proposed Bill becomes law?

I am considering this point with my legal advisers. It is not free from technical difficulties, but I should like to make it clear at once that a litigant or prospective litigant would have no legitimate grievance if, when the proposed Bill became law, he found that Parliament had decided to nullify the effect of the present law.

In view of the importance of this declaration, might I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has been in contact with the Trades Union Congress on the matter?

Certain discussions have taken place, but the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the whole matter will be left to the decision of the House when the Bill is introduced, which I hope will be at an early date.

Would it not be fair, in legislating on such a delicate matter, to provide that litigants who have already commenced proceedings, with the law as it stands, should be allowed their full costs?

The right hon. Gentleman said that it would be for the courts to decide as to costs. I am asking that it should be decided by this House.

That is a matter for consideration when the Bill comes before the House.

Would it not be wiser to strengthen the present Act, so that all workers should be paid entirely in current coin of the realm, instead of being paid partly in kind?

Has there been consultation between the various parties on this question? Does not this affect national unity? [Interruption.] I understood that there was a system of consultation between the various parties, and I should like to know whether there is unity on this.

I merely indicated that it was proposed to introduce a Bill. It will be discussed at the appropriate time.

Will the Bill which is to be introduced have the effect, in fact, of nullifying the verdict in the successful action that was brought in the House of Lords recently?

South Eastern Europe (Situation)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any statement to make on the conference of British diplomatic representatives recently held in London?

Yes, Sir. His Majesty's Ambassador at Angora and His Majesty's Ministers at Athens, Belgrade, Bucharest, Budapest and Sofia have now left, or are leaving, the United Kingdom to return to their posts after their visit to this country for purposes of consultation. During the nine days or so in which they have been here they have examined, under the chairmanship of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, the outstanding problems presented by the situation in South Eastern Europe. His Majesty's Ambassadors in Rome and Moscow, who are also in this country, have assisted at these discussions. The Heads of Missions concerned, who have all been received in audience by His Majesty the King, have had the opportunity also of meeting myself, the Minister of Economic Warfare, the Minister of Information, and members of the Cabinet, with whom they have discussed the questions in which these Ministers are specially interested. His Majesty's Representatives also had an opportunity of hearing from Lord Swinton some account of the new United Kingdom Commercial Corporation and of the work which the Corporation intends to carry out in order to develop and place permanently on a broader basis the trade exchanges between this country and South Eastern European States.

These consultations, which have now been concluded, have afforded evidence of the close interest which His Majesty's Government take in the countries concerned. The purpose of the discussions has been, in accordance with the settled policy of His Majesty's Government, the preservation of peace and the promotion of security in the Balkans and Danubian countries. No one of these States, between whom it is the desire of the Allies to see the growth of a mutual understanding, has any cause to fear that the Allies or their forces will ever threaten their independence or integrity.

In the economic field the discussions have been conducted on the basis that it is the policy of His Majesty's Government so to develop their relations with these countries as to ensure, so far as possible, a lasting increase in their commercial exchanges with them.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his reply also means that any threat to the freedom and independence of any of the South Eastern nations will be a matter of grave concern to His Majesty's Government?

I have already expressed the concern which His Majesty's Government feel for the situation in the Balkans and their desire to promote peace and to establish security in that region.

I take it that this country does not want to pinch anybody else's country?

Germans (Designation)

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will give instructions that in all Government communications the word "German" is used and never the word "Nazi"?

The word "Nazi" is in fact seldom, if ever, used in official communications; no such instructions are therefore necessary.

Would the Prime Minister extend his influence to corporations like the B.B.C., which use nothing but the word "Nazi," and does not he think that the German people are responsible and must take the responsibility for what is coming to them?

I have already stated in a public speech that the German people cannot escape their responsibility for their Government.

May I have an answer about the B.B.C.? Will the Prime Minister use his influence with them?

Is there not a better word, beginning with "B", which might be suitable?

Is the Prime Minister aware that the B.B.C. do not use the word "Nazi," but that they say "Nahzi"?