House Of Commons
Tuesday, 21st May, 1940.
The House— after the Adjournment on Thursday, 9 th May, for the Whitsuntide Recess— met at a Quarter before Three of the Clock, Mr. Speaker in the Chair.
Government Of India Act, 1935 (Order)
The Vice-Chamberlain of the Household (Major Sir James Edmondson) reported His Majesty's Answer to the Address, as followeth:
I have received your Address praying that the Government of India ( Adaptation of Acts of Parliament) ( Amendment) Order, 1940, be made in the form of the draft laid before Parliament.
I will comply with your request.
New Writs
For the Borough of Newcastle-upon-Tyne (North Division), in the room of Sir Nicholas Grattan-Doyle (Chiltern Hundreds) [ Captain Margesson.]
For the County of York (West Riding) (Spen Valley Division), in the room of the Right Honourable Sir John Simon, G.C.S.I., G.C.V.O., O.B.E., K.C., Lord High Chancellor of Great Britain.—[ Captain Margesson.]
Private Business
Christchurch Corporation Bill (King's Consent Signified)
Bill read the Third time, and passed.
Newcastle-Upon-Tyne And Gateshead Gas Bill
Read the Third time, and passed.
Northallerton Urban District Council Bill Lords
Read the Third time, and passed, with Amendments.
Cornwall Electric Power Bill
As amended, considered; to be read the Third time.
South Suburban Gas Bill Lords
Read a Second time, and committed.
Oral Answers To Questions
Economic Warfare (Russian Imports)
1.
asked the Minister of Economic Warfare whether he can report any improvement in the matter of enemy goods being transported through the harbour of Vladivostok and how far it has been possible to stop this leak in the blockade?
Yes, Sir, I am glad to say that there has recently been a sharp decline in the import of copper through Vladivostok, and some decline in the import of other war materials. But I am still not at all satisfied with the position, and His Majesty's Government are now considering what arrangements can be made to stop the leak.
British Army
Dependants'allowances
2.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now in a position to agree that Army allowances in respect of adopted children will be put on the basis of proved maintenance irrespective of legal adoption?
I am not in a position to extend the concession which my predecessor announced in answer to a Question by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Greenock (Mr. Gibson) on 7th May last, but if, in other cases, hardship can be shown to have arisen by reason of the soldier's service during the war, application for a special allowance may be made to the War Service Grants Advisory Committee of the Ministry of Pensions.
Why is it that the War Office cannot put themselves in the same position as the Ministry of Labour and the Unemployment Assistance Board in respect of the maintenance of children who are adopted? Does the Minister not realise that legally to adopt a child in Scotland costs at least three guineas?
I do realise the difficulty of this question. A concession has been made to meet it, but I am afraid it is not possible entirely to meet the problem in the way which the hon. Gentleman suggests.
Will the right hon. Gentleman say why the War Office cannot adopt the same practice as the Ministry of Labour?
The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the concessions which have been made. For the moment I cannot go beyond those concessions, but I am prepared to consider any representations which hon. Members like to make.
Will the Minister consult the legal authorities in Scotland to see if there cannot be a concession in regard to legal adoption?
Why cannot the same provision be made for these children as for unmarried mothers? Surely if the Government do it in one case they can do it in the other.
I would remind the hon. Gentleman that a concession was made by my predecessor. I am prepared to consider any suggestions, but there is a difficulty in principle.
Will the Minister tell us on what date the concession was made? I asked the question before the Recess but could not get an answer.
The 7th May.
4.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that wives of soldiers living on the Downham estate do not receive the extra 3s. 6d. allotted to wives of men living in London, owing to the postal address being in Kent; that rates are paid to the Metropolitan borough of Lewisham, which has resulted in a recent raising of rents on the estate; and, under the circumstances, whether he will provide for wives of serving men living on the estate to be paid the additional London allowance?
The additional allowance granted in respect of the London Postal Area is of long standing and applied also in the last war. It is recognised that, in present circumstances, it is somewhat anomalous, but any extension of the area would equally present anomalies. The general arrangement is that, in the case of hardship arising from high rents which cannot be met from the normal family allowance, application for an additional allowance can be made to the War Service Grants Advisory Committee.
In view of the fact that these dependants come into exactly the same conditions as those who reside in London, is it not desirable to make the same concession for these particular cases, and would it not solve the whole matter if the Ministry decided to make a general grant to all the dependants?
As I have explained, as London is in a special position it is not possible to extend the arrangements without certain anomalies arising, so that the only way in which to meet any hardship is in the form I have suggested.
Royal Army Medical Corps (Private Practice)
3.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is satisfied that it is in the best interests of the Army that officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps should be permitted to attend, for fees, private patients outside the service; and on what grounds he differentiates these cases from those of members of other callings or trades wishing to supplement their Army pay?
Officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps are not permitted to set up in private practice in competition with civilian medical practitioners, but they are free to act in a consultative capacity or do other similar work of a casual nature which does not interfere with the performance of their military duties, and I think this is a beneficial arrangement.
Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the difficulties created for commanding officers of units by this rule? A commanding officer is frequently asked by a man for extra leave in order to see private patients, and consequently he has to get other men to do the work in the unit. Does the right hon. Gentleman think this is conducive to harmony?
This rule has been in operation since 1924, and I am told it works very well. On the face of it, it seems to be a reasonable arrangement.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the difficulties of supplying the needs of the civilian population are very great? Surely it is only right that doctors, whether Army or civilian, should be used whenever required?
Hotel And Café Restrictions, Jerusalem
10.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the regulations which have hitherto closed the better-class hotels and cafés to soldiers in Jerusalem have been withdrawn?
I am informed that out of 41 hotels, restaurants, cafés and teashops in Jerusalem which are considered suitable to be put in bounds to troops, one hotel, which houses parts of the Palestine Government Secretariat and of the Military Force Headquarters, is not open to soldiers, and 10 other establish- ments, not of large size, are, at the request of the proprietors, not open to soldiers below the rank of sergeant. The remaining 30 are in bounds to rank and file.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that this sort of thing takes the heart out of the serving man, who is fighting for his country, and who is told that certain cafés are too good for the likes of him? Will my right hon. Friend take a more enlightened view, and not allow proprietors of cafés to impose restrictions of this kind on men who are fighting for the country?
I entirely appreciate my hon. Friend's feelings, which I share; but, on looking into this, I find that the cafés concerned are all extremely small, with limited accommodation, and I do not think it would be any help to anybody if the local commander should have the rule modified.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that I sent to his predecessor a letter from a serving soldier, who pointed out that he and his friends had only drinking brothels to go to, because these other places were closed?
I quite agree that the position is unsatisfactory, but I do not think that what the hon. Member suggests would meet the case; what is required is something on a much larger scale. I will look into the matter.
Patrol Dogs
11.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has now informed himself of the use made by the French and German armies of patrol dogs; and whether he will take steps to see that patrol dogs are provided for British troops on a commensurate scale?
I am aware of the use of patrol dogs in the French and German armies. The extent of their use with British troops is dependent on the result of training experiments now in progress.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the proper use of dogs would not only make patrols more effective, but would save the lives of many of our men? Is he aware that the Germans have something like 100,000 dogs available for this purpose?
Yes, Sir; I am aware of that.
Coloured Men (Recruitment)
14.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider supplementing British man-power by recruiting coloured fighting men from the Colonies and Protectorates; and as to how far they could be equipped and trained in each colony before being sent to France?
The voluntary enlistment of men in Colonies and Protectorates has been proceeding, and it is expected that the majority will, for the present, be required for military duties within those territories, thus discharging an important function which would otherwise have to be performed by British troops. The men receive their training and equipment locally.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these people who are serving locally are serving no useful purpose?
Navy, Army And Air Force Institutes
6 and 7.
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he can give any information regarding the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes; what measure of control is exercised by the Government over the organisation; and whether the control extends to the regulation of the prices of goods sold to the Forces;
(2) whether he can state the amount of the financial turnover of the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes in the period between 1st January of this year and the present date; and the administrative expenses of the body in the same period?Information regarding the composition and activities of the Navy. Army and Air Force Institutes may be obtained by reference to the memorandum and articles of association of this corporation, a copy of which, together with copies of annual reports and balance sheets, has been placed in the Library of this House for the convenience of hon. Members. For the information of my right hon. Friend, I am sending him a copy of the last annual report and balance sheet. Control regarding policy is exercised through a Council comprising four representatives of each of the Fighting Services, the actual conduct of the business being left to the discretion of the board of management. I regret that the information asked for as to turnover and expenses is not available.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that by order of the military authorities many private owners of canteens in East Anglia have been dispossessed to make way for the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes, and are thus being deprived of their livelihood? Will he make an immediate investigation into the matter?
I am not aware of that fact, but the hon. Gentleman appreciates that that is an entirely different question.
Will the right hon. Gentleman make inquiries in his Department? He will find that the matter was put before them recently.
What is the position of the Treasury in this matter? Does it have anything to do with the working of the institutes?
I should be grateful if my hon. and gallant Friend would put that question down.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give any information about the administrative expenses?
I cannot without notice.
Local Defence Volunteer Force
13.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether plans have now been made for effective civilian defence against invasion; whether he is aware that there is among the civilian population a great demand for instructions, training, rifles and organisation, as well as willingness to take their part efficiently, without pay, especially against parachutists; and what plans he has to meet this demand?
My right hon. and gallant Friend will be aware of the Local Defence Volunteer Force scheme, which was announced after he had given notice of his Question. Although I am not yet in possession of authoritative figures, I am able to say that the response has been most satisfactory. No establishment has been fixed, and the numbers accepted will depend on the circumstances in each area. Defence Regulations have been passed, authorising the enrolment of the Local Defence Volunteers as members of the armed Forces. Service in the Force will not, however, exempt a man from liability to be called up under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act, 1939, and a short Bill is being introduced to provide accordingly. All volunteers will be enrolled as soldiers, and there will be no officers or non-commissioned officers in the ordinary Army sense of those terms, nor will there be any pay or other emoluments. Compensation, will, however, be given for injuries attributable to service. Service with the Force will be for the duration of the emergency, unless a man is in the meantime called up under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act, but may be terminated earlier either by the competent authority at any time or by the volunteer himself on giving a fortnight's notice. The Force will be supplied with arms, ammunition and uniform.
Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the letters in the "Times" to-day from Lord Eltisley and Mr. Symonds, the first asking that the Observer Corps should be embodied and armed, and the other urging the importance of the people having their rifles with them?
Yes, Sir. My attention has been drawn to them, and to a number of other valuable suggestions, which will not be forgotten.
Has the right hon. Gentleman considered putting into operation the Volunteer Act of 1916 and other Acts preceding it, which worked well in the last war, and through the machinery of which we were able to organise 250,000 men, with units throughout the country?
Yes, Sir. The circumstances are different, but we are making use of all previous experience.
When will regulations definitely be issued and boundaries put to each village detachment? There has been a great response to the right hon. Gentleman's appeal, but everybody is waiting for regulations, and does not know what to do.
That organisation is now proceeding. Area organisers, group organisers, platoon commanders and section leaders are all being appointed, with great rapidity, in view of the circumstances.
Will the right hon. Gentleman reassure those who have volunteered for this force that they will be adequately armed, and not sent on duty without any rifles or ammunition?
Yes, Sir; as I have said, they will be supplied with arms, ammunition, and uniforms.
Will my right hon. Friend give us an assurance that there will be the minimum amount of red tape exercised in the work of this organisation?
Scotland (Land Cultivation, Highlands)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made since the beginning of the present war in making available to the crofters and landless in the Highlands for food production the 3,000,000 acres of arable and pasture land which, as pointed out in representations recently made to him on behalf of the crofters' unions, are at present under deer or grouse?
Instructions and guidance have been given to agricultural executive committees in the Highland counties with a view to securing the full utilisation of the grazing capacity of deer forests and grouse moors. Reports indicate that the committees have been active in their efforts in this direction, and that good progress is being made. It appears that the demand from crofters for facilities of this kind is not very great at the present time, but steps have already been taken in certain cases to enable townships of crofters to obtain additional grazing on sporting lands.
Does that mean that the Government will give every encouragement to crofters willing to cultivate land, and that no obstacles will be placed in the way of their obtaining land in the Highlands?
My hon. Friend may rest assured that we shall give every encouragement to the use of land for the one purpose we have in view—victory in this war.
Is the Minister satisfied that the crofters' unions are adequately represented on these county committees?
That is a question of which I should require notice.
Is it the intention to bring the smallholders into this scheme, particularly those ex-service men who have been refused smallholdings in the Highlands for the past 10 years?
Coal Industry
Coal Production Council
16.
asked the Secretary for Mines whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the work of the Coal Production Council indicating what steps they have recommended to increase the production of coal?
I am giving earnest consideration to the whole question of increased production in consultation with the Coal Production Council but I am not yet in a position to make a statement on the matter.
Coal And Coke Supplies
17 and 18.
asked the Secretary for Mines (1) whether he can now withdraw or modify further the restrictions on the delivery of coal and coke;
(2) what progress is being made with the scheme to build up reserves of coal locally; whether electricity and gas authorities are now being encouraged to build up reserves of coal; what progress has been made; and whether he has issued, or intends to issue, any circular or direction thereon?20.
asked the Secretary for Mines what steps he is taking or proposes to take so that the people can buy more coal to store away for the winter?
21.
asked the Secretary for Mines what steps have been taken to build up stocks of coal for domestic and industrial purposes so as to avoid the difficulties experienced during the past weeks?
Steady progress is being made within the limit of available supplies in building up stocks of coal for essential public services and any existing restrictions on the purchase of house coal are being modified as the situation in the area improves. I must, however, emphasize that until production is considerably increased the utmost economy in consumption will be necessary if we are to meet fully the vital needs of industry and export.
If restrictions on delivery continue to be necessary, would not it be fairer and cheaper to the consumer to re-introduce rationing rather than go on with this uneconomic course?
I think that that would hardly be approved by the majority of the Members of this House at the present time.
Is the Minister aware that there are hundreds of men who are working only two and a half days per week, that they are sent back practically every day, and that I have men in my division who have worked only two days in the last fortnight because of mismanagement?
My hon. Friend heard my answer to the previous Question. We are looking into the matter of production, and we do not want to have pits half idle in this country.
Will the Minister consider the introduction of summer prices so as to enable people with storage capacity to lay in stores?
The question of restrictions is under consideration at the present time.
Benzole
19.
asked the Secretary for Mines whether, if gas undertakings adopt the request contained in his letter to them, dated 30th April, 1940, by installing or extending benzole plants, he will give an assurance that they will, for that purpose, be guaranteed an appropriate additional supply of coal, so that the money expended on such plants will not be wasted; and whether the price they receive for benzole will be co-related to the price of coal and not coupled to the pool price of petrol in the Gulf of Mexico?
I can assure the hon. Member that every endeavour will be made to provide adequate supplies of coal for gas works, particularly where these are recovering benzole. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which was given to the hon. Member for Holland with Boston (Mr. Butcher) on 23rd April on this subject.
Will the Minister do his utmost to get a more satisfactory result at an early date?
Yes, Sir, but the question of prices does not fall under my Department; it is a matter which is answer able by the Department of the Secretary for Petroleum Supplies.
I thought that we were to get drive with the new Government.
Export Trade
24.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether active contact is being maintained with the High Commissioner and the commercial secretariat in South Africa for the continued expansion of British export trade in the Union of South Africa?
Yes, Sir. Active contact is being maintained and reports are regularly obtained on the possibilities of expansion of our export trade to the Union.
Is my right hon. Friend giving every assistance in his power to trade commissioners in South Africa in order to develop our trade?
Every assistance is being given.
25 and 26.
asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) whether constant contact is being maintained with the trade commissioner in Australia for the promotion of British export trade with the Commonwealth; and whether any proposals are under consideration for the enlargement of British trade with Australia;
(2) whether he is satisfied that every appropriate step is being taken to promote the continuity of British trade development in New Zealand; and whether any scheme is under consideration for increase of British exports to that Dominion?
The answer to the first part of these Questions is in the affirmative. All practicable steps appropriate for the purpose of maintaining our war effort are being taken to secure a continued development of our trade in these Dominions.
Is my right hon. Friend receiving a sympathetic response from Australia and New Zealand to this policy of the development of inter-imperial trade with these two great Dominions?
Yes, Sir, we are satisfied.
Ministry Of Shipping
Wrecked Seamen
27.
asked the Minister of Shipping what arrangements are made to give assistance to members of the Mercantile Marine who become stranded in this country as a result of enemy action; and whether anything can be done to minimise delay in providing wrecked seamen with discharge books to enable them to continue their means of livelihood?
With regard to the first part of the Question I would refer the hon. Member to the answers given on this subject by the Minister of Health to the hon. Members for Birkenhead, East (Mr. White) and the Sutton Division of Plymouth (Viscountess Astor) on 1st and 29th February, respectively. As to the second part, arrangements have been made to ensure that when a Discharge Book is not immediately available at the time of discharge a temporary certificate of discharge will be provided.
Canadian And Newfoundland Pulp Supplies
28.
asked the Minister of Shipping what arrangements are being made for the transport to this country of Canadian and Newfoundland pulp supplies necessary for the needs of this country?
Essential requirements for pulp from Canada and Newfoundland are being taken into account in the shipping programme from these countries, but, as the hon. Member will appreciate, it would not be advisable to publish particulars of the quantities for which transport is being provided.
Food Supplies
Cattle Grading
30.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he will consider creating some system of appeal when a farmer is not satisfied with the grade and weights of his cattle sent to the State slaughterhouses?
Fat cattle are purchased by the Ministry on the basis of grading in relation to the actual live-weight as shown on the weighing machine at the market. Grading is carried out by a certifying authority of three persons, one of whom is a farmer. The Ministry are taking all possible steps to ensure that the grading is carried out fairly and uniformly at all collecting centres and a staff of specially qualified inspectors is engaged for that purpose. Consideration has been given to the question of allowing producers the right to appeal against the decision of the graders in cases where they are dissatisfied, but the complexity of the arrangements for the operation of any such scheme on a national basis would render it unworkable. I am not aware of any general desire for a right of appeal, which would, of course, have to be equally available to the Ministry as well as the farmers.
Peas (Price)
31.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food what decision has now been reached with reference to the imposition of price control on loose and processed peas?
A scheme for the imposition of price control upon loose and processed peas is being formulated. Mean while my Noble Friend has made arrangements for the importation of peas and other pulses into this country on a rather larger scale than pre-war volume.
Is it not the fact that the 310 per cent. increase in the price of peas was reported to the Department of my hon. Friend may weeks ago as a public ramp, and that he has taken no action at all to safeguard consumers against this monstrous imposition?
I have not had very much time to take action, but I can assure my hon. and learned Friend that it is anticipated that the peas which will shortly be released for market will have the effect especially of reducing the price.
Is my hon. Friend aware that his Department has had notice of this for many weeks, that the 310 per cent. increase still goes on, and that the Board of Trade shelter behind his Department by saying that it is a matter for him and not for them?
It is not always desirable to impose control when prices are at a very high level.
Is the racket to continue?
No, Sir.
Aircraft Production (Skilled Engineers)
32.
asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will give an assurance that the construction and operation of new aeroplanes is not being hampered by the calling up for the Army of skilled engineers needed in the new aircraft factories; and whether he will make a statement on the whole question?
The production of aeroplanes has been hampered to some extent, but not seriously, by the calling up of skilled men for service in the Army, and whether further steps should not be taken to screen this industry is now under consideration.
China And Japan
33.
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the Japanese Army authorities at Tientsin owns seven-eighths of the capital of the transport lorry companies to which they have granted a monopoly; that, for the movement of goods into and out of the British Concession, 15 dollars an hour is charged for the hire of a lorry; that lorries are deliberately detained at the barrier for periods varying from a day to two weeks until sufficient hire revenue has been earned to satisfy the Japanese military authorities, the amount being determined in advance by the nature and value of the cargo; and will he draw the attention of the Japanese Government to this injustice to British interests?
My Noble Friend is causing inquiries to be made.
34.
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that a well-known British lady, desiring to enter the British Concession at Tientsin in order to visit her sick daughter, was recently detained at the barrier, although there was no congestion of traffic and no reason to stop her, but was allowed to pass on the representation of Italian friends who happened to be going through at the same time; whether such discrimination against British subjects is the rule; and what steps he has taken to put an end to such continued affront to British subjects?
My Noble Friend has no information as to the particular incident in question, but he has received reports of a number of cases where British subjects have unreasonably been held up at the barriers. In these cases representations have been made to the Japanese Government.
If I give my right hon. Friend particulars of the case will he have it looked into?
Yes, Sir.
36.
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any statement to make regarding the political situation in China; and what steps have been taken and with what success to provide alternative medical end educational facilities in Shansi, Shensi and neighbouring provinces consequent on missionary efforts having been rendered nugatory owing to the unsettled political situation?
There has been no recent change of importance in the general situation. Some fighting, in which both sides have claimed successes, has taken place in Central China. There has, I understand, been no interruption of missionary activities in the province of Shensi. Any facilities of the nature re- ferred to provided by missionary bodies in the province of Shansi and other Japanese occupied areas are supplementary to and in no way intended to replace those provided by the State. I may add that a number of hospitals have recently been reopened and it is hoped that further progressive improvement will occur.
Is the policy of the Government with regard to this a policy of complete neutrality, and, if so, will the right hon. Gentleman keep in mind what the present Prime Minister said with regard to neutrals?
I cannot follow all the hon. Member's insinuations, but I can say that our policy is one which endeavours to secure improvements wherever we can.
Has His Majesty's Government received any report which confirms the claim of the Chinese Embassy that they have recently won the greatest victory of the war?
Yes, Sir, I can say that His Excellency communicated to us recently certain reports of that character.
Balkans (Political Situation)
35.
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any statement to make on the political situation in the Balkans; and what steps the Government are taking to counter German attempts to permeate Greece with their influence and propaganda?
No, Sir; but the hon. Member may rest assured that His Majesty's Government have the matter referred to very much in mind.
Colonial Sugar Production
37.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware of the desirability that the production of Colonial sugar should be increased as rapidly as possible under present conditions; and whether he will take steps to remove at the earliest opportunity the anomalies inherent in the present system of allocating special preference certificates for sugar exports from the Colonies, which, at the present time, militate against such expansion?
As stated in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Mr. R. Morgan) on the 1st May the question whether a further increase in Colonial sugar production is needed to meet requirements in this country is now under examination with the various Departments concerned. There is no evidence that the present system of allocation of special preference certificates is likely to hinder any expansion which the probable demand may justify. No action taken now can affect the supply situation before the Spring of 1942.
Armed Forces (Pay And Dependants' Allowances)
38.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will review the payments that are made to members of all the armed Forces and the allowances made to the dependants; and take early steps to increase the payments and allowances?
I have been asked to reply. There have been a number of improvements recently made in the conditions of service of members of the armed Forces and I do not think a review of the pay and allowances is now called for.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the deep resentment which finds expression among the dependants of our men who are serving in the Armed Forces, and against the application of the household means test in particular, and in view of that will he reconsider his answer?
In November last the allowances for children were substantially increased, and as regards dependants a scheme of allowances for them was applied at the outbreak of war. Certain concessions in this respect have been granted quite recently.
Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether he has had any representations from the Labour Ministers who have entered the Cabinet?
Will the Minister say whether any changes are contemplated with regard to the taking away of taxes imposed on soldiers' cigarettes?
That is another matter.
But would it not be very much better to do this. Although it may cost a few millions it would give great satisfaction to the soldiers?
I know we all feel that, but there has been a substantial number of improvements recently.
Is not the Minister aware that it would not cost very much to give the kind of allowances given for a soldier's parent as in the last war when an allotment was made, and that it would give a great deal of satisfaction?
I think that if my hon. Friend compares the position in the last war with the position in this he will see an improvement.
Is the Minister aware that concessions were made which were much appreciated but that there was a feeling that allowances for the parent did not receive any consideration at all?
You can take a particular instance, but we must take the whole matter together?
In view of the feeling in the country I beg to give notice that I will raise the question on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment?
Leader Of The Opposition (Salary)
39.
asked the Prime Minister whether, in the absence of a substantial Opposition, he will introduce legislation for the temporary suspension of the salary of the Leader of the Opposition?
In view of the formation of a Government embracing the three main political parties, His Majesty's Government is of opinion that the provision of the Ministers of the Crown Act, 1937, relating to the payment of a salary to the Leader of the Opposition, is in abeyance for the time being. As at present advised I do not think that amending legislation as suggested by my hon. Friend is necessary.
Why not give it to the hon. Member?
Would my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of paying this money into the central fund for the provisions of pensions for Members instead of putting it into cold storage for the duration of the emergency?
Is it not wanted for carrying on the war?
Can we be assured that my right hon. Friend will revert to the previous practice as soon as there is a suitable candidate for the position?
I must not pass opinions on matters which have a legal aspect, but I can assure my hon. Friend that if personal considerations alone were at stake my answer would have been very different.
May I ask whether, as there is to be no Leader of the Opposition, we can be assured that right hon. Gentlemen and hon. Gentlemen sitting on the Benches opposite will not have any privileges over other back benchers?
I am interested in this matter. May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether any steps will be taken to regularise the position in this House which has not, as the Prime Minister said, left the House without an Opposition? May I ask the Prime Minister whether he will consider every aspect of this matter, the least important of which is the financial aspect?
As the law stands at present is it clear that the hon. Member for Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton) is not entitled to the position of Leader of the Opposition?
I did not give my answer without taking every form of advice.
The answer seems to indicate that not only is the salary of the Leader of the Opposition being put into abeyance but that there is an attempt being made to put opposition into abeyance—[HON. MEMBERS: "No," and "You leave that to us."]—I am asking whether any reasonable method of discussion will be taken to decide how the affairs of the House are to be conducted in the new situation?
If any attempt has been made to suppress the idea of criticism in this House it is apparent already that it has failed. With regard to the methods of dealing with the questions relating to business and debate I think those are very proper matters to be considered and no doubt they will be considered.
Arising from the Prime Minister's reply with regard to this matter of the Opposition, is it not a fact that the small group led by the hon. Member for Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton) have, on the whole, been the best supporters of the Conservative party?
In view of the fact that there is within the House a very considerable opposition to this Government and its policy will there be any effort made by you, Mr. Speaker, to make arrangements so that the Opposition can express itself as a definite opposition to the Government and the policy of the Government?
The hon. Member can rest assured that I will always do my best to ensure that all points of view shall be stated.
In view of the fact that we have such a large Government and that the whole of the House is supporting the Government, is it not possible for Ministers to sit on both Front Benches?
A Question on that subject is being put to me later.
Three Per Cent War Loan
40.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer who or what type of subscriber applied for the most recent £300,000,000 3 per cent. war loan; and whether such subscriptions were quantitively from genuine savings or from bank-created credit?
In reply to the first part of the Question, it is not the practice, and would not be desirable in the public interest to publish information relating to subscriptions to Government loans. As regards the second part, as stated in the reply given to the hon. Member for the St. Rollox Division (Mr. Leonard) on 12th March, any credit given by the banks to facilitate subscriptions would be confined to temporary acommodation for a quite short period.
As I did not hear the first part of the answer and do not understand the second, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman, in view of the repeated assurances which have been given that the war will be financed out of the genuine savings of the people, to what extent he proposes to do so?
I cannot add anything to my answer.
Tithe Redemption Commission
41.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in connection with the Tithe Redemption Commission and matters affecting the Tithe Act, 1936, and the memoranda sent out by Messrs. H. M. Grellier and Son, Palace Chambers, Bridge Street, S.W.1, on his behalf, some steps will be taken to ensure that these memoranda are accompanied by an explanatory letter, in view of the great difficulty which many people in all parts of the country experience in understanding the drafting and wording of the memoranda as at present sent out?
The documents referred to already include a printed explanatory memorandum. If any person who has difficulty in understanding them will, either in person or by letter, communicate with the agent of the Commission, at the address given in the form, and state what his particular difficulty is, he can be sure of receiving any further necessary explanations.
Is the Financial Secretary aware that I have seen the Secretary of the Tithe Commission and that I have endeavoured to the best of my ability to separate the true from the false, the real from the unreal? Will my right hon. and gallant Friend help me, because the matter is quite beyond me?
I have taken particular care to study the documents and they are crystal clear to anybody who wishes to understand them. It is the case that the hon. Member has been in touch with the Secretary of the Tithe Commission and if he is not able to explain away his difficulties, I am afraid it is very unlikely I shall be able to do so.
Does the Financial Secretary think that any right-minded person can really accept that complacent Treasury answer? It is lacking in common sense.
43.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what steps he is taking to stop, for the duration of the war, the harsh measures being taken in connection with tithe payments which are being applied at the present time?
I know of no ground for my hon. Friend's suggestion that harsh measures are taken to recover arrears of tithe rent charge or redemption annuities. As I have previously stated, the Tithe Redemption Commission are always prepared to give sympathetic consideration to any reasonable proposals for payment from those who experience difficulty in meeting their obligations whether the difficulty arises out of the war or otherwise.
Perhaps my right hon. and gallant Friend will see me at the earliest opportunity?
The Tithe Redemption Commission have dealt very generously with anybody who has been in difficulties in this matter. That is their established policy, which they are carrying out.
Is it not quite clear that the milling combines are at the bottom of all this?
Foreign-Owned Securities (Treasury Action)
(by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he proposes to take to prevent bonds and other securities which have been looted from the banks of Norway, Denmark, Holland and Belgium by the Germans from being sold or marketed in this country?
Under an Order in Council dated 12th May amending the Defence (Finance) Regulations, 1939, the purchase by any person resident in the United Kingdom of any securities in which a person resident outside the sterling area has any interest is prohibited unless Treasury permission is obtained. In order to prevent any benefit direct or indirect to the enemy careful scrutiny into the antecedents of all foreign-owned securities is exercised before any such permission is granted, and this would of course be withheld in the cases referred to by my hon. and gallant Friend. Should it be found that a further strengthening of our measures in any respect is desirable, the necessary action would at once be taken.
In regard to the Order-in-Council, may I ask when it was published and when it was made available to the Press, because a number of these Orders-in-Council are published and are not available for general publication for a fortnight afterwards?
I cannot give the date in this case but I read a Press notice on Saturday, 11th May, and that was about the same time that the Order was made.
Business Of The House
Mr. Lees-Smith.
rose—
I understand that you are calling upon the right hon. Gentleman to ask a question about business? Before the right hon. Gentleman puts that question I should like to ask whether you are prepared to make any statement on whom will fall this responsibility and also whether you propose to make any statement with regard to the seating of parties in the House?
I am making a statement on that matter later.
I take it that you called upon the right hon. Gentleman to ask a question about business? May I ask in accordance with what arrangements the right hon. Gentleman is called upon to put that question?
Is there not a precedent in the last war, when the senior Privy Councillor on the Front Bench, when there was a similar position, always asked the question about business?
I think that is the case.
Are you aware that we have no Opposition?
Cannot the House of Commons realise that there is a war on?
Has it not been intimated in the Press that the Conservative party is keeping its machinery intact and its official office going? Is there any reason, therefore, why the Labour Opposition should not do a similar thing and carry on?
That is not a question for me.
May I draw your attention to the fact that there is no precedent in the last war, because there was no Opposition in the House in the last war? In this case there is a distinct and organised Opposition.
I was in the House in the last war and seem to remember some Opposition.
My hon. Friend's point is that while there were Opposition Members in this House in the last war, as no doubt there are at the present time in several parts of the House, there was no distinct and separately organised Opposition to the Government in the House and in the country. On this occasion there is such an Opposition. [HON. MEMBERS: "Where?"] Here.
I am quite willing to give a Ruling on the question of precedent if a Question is put to me.
Is it possible for you, Mr. Speaker, to define what is really a party in this House?
This is the three card trick.
Is it not desirable that the House in these serious days should realise what the policy of the Government is before raising all these frivolous questions; and that if there is an opposition to the policy of the Government someone should be appointed to raise the questions?
May I ask the Prime Minister whether he has any statement to make about the Business of the House to-morrow?
rose—
Before the Prime Minister replies, may I put a point to you, Mr. Speaker? I raised a point of Order as to what person was authorised to ask questions on Business, and as a sequel the hon. Baronet the Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris) pointed out that in the last war the senior Privy Councillor performed those functions in time of difficulty; and the senior Privy Councillor is not now asking the question. May I ask for your Ruling on this matter?
The hon. Member must remember that we are working in what are certainly novel conditions, and it takes a certain amount of time to make arrangements. I would ask the hon. Member not to be so precipitate.
With regard to the Business of the House, to-morrow, as already announced, we shall take the Second Reading of the Treachery Bill. I think it is desirable that we should ask the House not only to take the Second Reading, but the Committee and remaining stages so that the Bill may become law as early as possible. It will also be necessary, in connection with the formation of the Local Defence Volunteer Force, to have a small Bill to amend the National Service (Armed Forces) Act. We shall ask leave to bring in this Bill to-morrow, and, in view of its urgency, we desire to pass it through all its stages on the same day. The text of the Bill will be made available to hon. Members as soon as the House meets to-morrow.
Front Opposition Bench
May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether you have considered the question of the occupation of the Front Opposition Bench, and whether you have any statement to make?
Before you answer that question, Mr. Speaker, may I ask for your guidance as to whether right hon. Gentlemen on the Front Bench opposite are now recognised as the Official Opposition?
With regard to the question put by the right hon. Member for Keighley (Mr. Lees-Smith), the custom of the House is described in Erskine May, page 176, as follows:
The qualifications thus appear to be twofold, being leading Members of the Opposition, and being ex-Ministers. The present circumstances are, as far as I know, unprecedented. It cannot be said that there is now an Opposition in Parliament in the hitherto accepted meaning of the words; namely, a party in Opposition to the Government from which an alternative Government could be formed. The principal, if not the only qualification which remains is that of being an ex-Minister. To meet these unprecedented circumstances, it is necessary to make some change in the usual custom, and I think the arrangement which would most nearly conform to the custom of the House, which I read just now, and having regard to the fact that there is no Opposition in the terms which I have described, would be that any ex-Minister outside the present Government, that is, an ex-Minister of any party, should be, if he chose, entitled to sit on the Front Opposition Bench. It will be noted, in the passage which I quoted from May as regards the Front Opposition Bench, that other Members occasionally sit there. In recent years it has been the practice of the Opposition to invite a few prominent back-benchers to sit on the Front Opposition Bench, and I see no objection to that practice being continued as regards those who have already been invited to fill those positions. As I understand these choices and Members have been settled for the Session only, they can from time to time be reconsidered."The Front Bench on the Opposition side, though other Members occasionally sit there, is reserved for leading Members of the Opposition who have served in the offices of State."
May I ask whether you are prepared to give the House any guidance as to how the functions of the Opposition in such matters as the selection of Supply Days are to be carried out under existing circumstances?
On that point, may I ask whether it is not a fact that the custom of the Opposition choosing Supply Days arose in 1896, and that it was then a matter of convenience in order that Supply might be chosen if convenient to the Government; and is it not important that that right should be maintained, so that Supply could be chosen by those who are not Members of, or in close affiliation with, the actual Government of the day, merely as a matter of getting an adequate and proper Debate?
The selection of Supply Days has been arranged through what are called "the usual channels," which means that the different parties approach the Whips of the Government of the day and inform them of the particular subjects which they would like to discuss. Formerly that was confined to what was called the Official Opposition. Since there has been more than one Opposition—that is to say, the Liberal Opposition—they have been conceded a privilege in the selection of Supply Days and have had some choice in the matter of Supply Days. It is not a matter for me to decide, but for the House to decide as to how it should work the system under the new arrangements. I would much prefer not to give any definite Ruling on the matter to-day. I would prefer to give the matter further consideration and to see how the new system works, and then we can discuss it.
In view of the fact that the Labour party still remain the second largest party in the House, may I submit that the right to call for Supply should remain as heretofore, namely, in their hands, conceding whatever rights were thought to be desirable by the House to the third largest party in the House, namely, the Liberal party?
What about the largest party?
And what about the smallest?
May I make the further submission that, for the purposes of conducting the Business of the House harmoniously, all Members of the House collaborating with the Government in the prosecution of the war, it is desirable to make as few changes as possible, in spite of the constitutional objections?
May I ask you, Sir, whether you are satisfied that the usual channels are now constituted? Will you indicate to the House that these are in existence, and that in arrangements between the parties in the House the usual channels are an operative part of our proceedings?
As I have already said with regard to the selection of Supply Days, I would much prefer not to give any definite Ruling until things have settled down. I would much prefer to see how the new system works, and then the question can be raised.
May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether your attention has been drawn to the fact that at the commencement of this sitting, before Prayers, a number of tickets were placed on the Front Opposition Bench; whether that is not contrary to precedent, and whether, pending any further arrangement being made, in view of the fact that a number of ex-Ministers of the Crown may desire to sit on that bench, you will issue instructions to the effect that no tickets should be placed on the Front Opposition Bench?
I think the Ruling which I have already given will have the effect desired by the hon. Member.
I had some difficulty, Mr. Speaker, in following your answer, because of noises in the House. Do I understand your Ruling to be that the Front Bench above the Gangway is to be occupied by ex-Ministers of all parties and that you will regard that collection of men as the official Opposition?
I am sorry if I did not make myself heard by the hon. Member, but in the Ruling which I gave, I particularly remarked that in my opinion there was no Opposition in the hitherto accepted meaning in the House at the present moment, either on the Front Opposition Bench or anywhere else.
Is it not childish that at this time the House should be wasting time in discussing a matter of this kind?
It may be that, in the minds of hon. Members who are endeavouring to be in the Government and out of it at the same time, this is a waste of time. To me, it appears that we are now making vital decisions. If as you say, Mr. Speaker, the Opposition is to be abolished, then we are on the Reichstag level at once. The Opposition are those who are in opposition to the major policies of the Government. I did not want to discuss this question across the Floor of the House. I recognise that that is not a convenient way of doing so. I understand that the Prime Minister in answer to an earlier question and you, Sir, also, expressed willingness to consider the best method of arranging the affairs of the House in this respect. I am very ready to accept that proposal but I am not to be bound by a Ruling of this description, which gives the strategic position of Opposition to anybody at all who may have been in a Government 50 years ago, and who may be 100 per cent. in agreement with the present Government's policy.
In view of your Ruling, Sir, that there is no Official Opposition in this House now, and that ex-Ministers of all parties may sit on the Front Opposition Bench, and that, in addition, certain Members may be invited to sit on that bench—apparently only by the party opposite—may I ask whether it would not be right that invitations to occupy seats on the Front Opposition Bench should come from all parties in the House and not from the Labour party only? Then there would be on the Front Opposition Bench representatives of all parties.
I agree thoroughly with those who say that the present times are so serious for the people of this country that this House should not waste time, but in view of the statement that there is no alternative Government in this House, may I ask whether it is not the case that there is in this House at the present time an Opposition to this Government and to the policy of this Government? If that Opposition is to be allowed to grow in order that it may have an opportunity to change this Government and to replace it by a Government which will extricate the people from the tragedy now in front of them, is it not the case that that Opposition must be recognised?
The hon. Member is not asking a question but making a speech.
My question is whether it is not necessary, if that Opposition is to grow as it is entitled to grow, that it should be recognised as being in opposition to the policy of the Government?
I think the Ruling which I have already given is perfectly clear.
Would it not be a real disaster if, at this time, there was any attempt to define a formal Opposition in this House? Let the Opposition disclose itself in the course of the conduct of the proceedings in this House, before you, Mr. Speaker, are asked to define that Opposition. It would be a disaster, I contend, if three or four people were defined now as the Opposition, when real opposition to the Government might in the course of the next few months disclose itself? This, I submit, is not a matter of Order at all. It is a matter of the constitution of the House of which the House itself is the master.
Is it not the case that during the last war a simple and logical solution of this difficulty was found when there was a mixed body sitting on the Government Front Bench and there was also a mixed body on the Front Opposition Bench?
New Member Sworn
Major Ernest Guy Richard Lloyd, D.S.O., for the County of Renfrew (Eastern Division).
Message From The Lords
That they have agreed to,—
Amendments to—
Commercial Gas Bill [ Lords], without Amendment.
That they have passed a Bill, intituled, "An Act to empower certain officers and other persons to administer oaths and take affidavits, to facilitate the proof in criminal proceedings of documents intercepted in the post, and to make further provision as respects powers of attorney." [Evidence and Powers of Attorney Bill [ Lords.]
Orders Of The Day
Colonial Development And Welfare Bill
Order for Second Reading read.
4.0 p.m.
I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
The heart of every Member in the House to-day is gripped by a deep anxiety, and throughout the nation that anxiety is felt, for so much of the most vigorous and best of our young manhood is at this moment exposed to mortal danger. In the fields of Belgium, in the air, and on the sea, they are engaged in defending, against a ruthless foe, our lives and our land and our liberties. There is no step that this House would hesitate to take to support their stubborn resolution, their glorious courage and their lighting skill, upon which, with the renowned martial qualities of our Allies, the future of civilisation depends. It is one of the awful features of the war that it releases almost universally forces of destruction. Material things, precious works of art, human lives and man's painfully achieved records of progress are all alike exposed to possible annihilation. The greater part of the time of hon. and peace-loving Members of this House is now also devoted to the stern business of destruction. The Prime Minister said that the policy of the Government is to wage war, and by far the greater part of those vast sums of money which we are asking the taxpayers to-day to contribute will be turned into weapons for discomfiting, defeating, destroying the enemy. It is characteristic, that whilst every ounce of our energy is thrown into that task, this House nevertheless finds time to turn and to offer substantial and indeed generous encouragement to Colonial development. In the midst of the ruin of so much, it is good to be engaged still upon certain works of construction. Moreover, there is another significance attaching to our proceedings this afternoon. At this critical hour let the world mark the passage of the Colonial Development and Welfare Bill through the British Parliament as a sign of our faith in ultimate victory. This nation will pass triumphantly through its present ordeal, however hard and grim and desperate the struggle may be. When the enemy is worsted and the war is finished, Britain will still exercise vast responsibilities for the government of Colonial peoples. In the meantime we must not default upon our Colonial obligations, we must not let slip the experienced skill of our guiding hand; we must still, even now, have a constant care to protect and to promote the well-being of our fellow subjects in the Empire overseas. In these sombre days our anxieties and our hopes are fully shared by the peoples of the Colonies. It seems to me that one of the most notable assurances that our cause is just is the fact that these distant peoples, alien to us in race, who are ruled by us, sprang instantly and spontaneously to our side at the moment of the declaration of war. There are some 50 Colonial territories. Most of them are far removed from the scene of our European quarrels. They had no hand in the writing of that chapter in the story of international relations which closed so disastrously on 3rd September last. Many of them are comparatively small communities which, in those circumstances, might well have sought to excuse themselves from suffering the hazards and the dangers of. modern war, but not a single one of them chose to take that course. On the contrary, every single Colonial territory has voluntarily associated itself with us, every one of them has asked in what way it could help best the Allied war effort, and they are contributing, by gifts of treasure, by the production of essential foodstuffs and raw materials, and by the eager raising of Colonial military units far in excess of anything that they did at a similar period in the last war. I think it is significant that these 60,000,000 people, scattered over 50 different territories, who are not yet free to govern themselves, who are governed by us, recognised instinctively from that experience that we are the true guardians of the liberties and the happiness of small peoples. Nevertheless, the proposals for assistance towards Colonial development which are contained in this Bill were not devised after war had begun. They are not a bribe or a reward for the Colonies' support in this supreme crisis. They were conceived long before the war. For many months before that the details of these proposals were already being worked out in the Colonial Office. They are a part of the normal peace-time development of our Colonial policy, and if we had not been engaged in war, the Government would still have been introducing this legislation in the present Session of Parliament. The voters in this small democratic island have many large responsibilities, but they have none that is greater than their charge of the government of Colonial peoples. The problems of development and welfare in the Colonies are very different from those problems in this country. For instance, to take an extreme case, there are communities in parts of the Colonial Empire where life is as simple and ideas are as primitive as they were among our ancestors in this island some 2,000 years ago. That is not typical. The Colonial Empire, of course, contains a great variety of peoples and of circumstances. There are countries within it where there are societies famed for culture and long-established civilisation. Nevertheless, it is true, generally speaking, that economic and social requirements in the Colonies are quite different, in many cases they are at a far, far earlier stage of development than they are in Western Europe, and it would be a profound error to suppose that economic and social standards which are established here and which are rightly considered as a minimum standard by our people in this country, can be translated at once, suddenly, to the many different peoples in the many different countries of the Colonial Empire. But what we do have to ensure is that the progress from their existing standards is steady, that it is suitable to the different climatic and other conditions in which they live, and that they have the actual means of making that progress at their disposal. In the last generation there has been a great deal of wise government of the Colonies by experienced, sympathetic, understanding British administrators, aided to an ever-increasing degree by local executive officers and legislatures. The advance has been continuous. For example, the extension of the service of trained agricultural officers throughout the Colonial Empire has led to remark able improvements in the methods of production and marketing of Colonial goods; the steady reinforcement of the Colonial medical service at every front in the Colonial Empire has resulted in an increasingly effective attack upon tropical and other Colonial diseases; and the slow expansion of the education service is gradually bringing enlightenment where sometimes only dark ignorance prevailed before. But in all this important process many Colonies have suffered from one handicap. The development of the resources and the services of a country is naturally an expensive business. It requires a considerable expenditure of money, it requires a certain reliable robustness of revenue, and the simple truth is that many of our Colonial territories have not had adequate means to achieve that object. Of course that is not true of all of them. In some of the Colonies there are rich resources of material wealth. They are producers of gold, copper, tin, oil and rubber, and these countries are comparatively well off, having ample revenue to finance enlightened and progressive government. But that is not the situation in a majority of the Colonies. They are mostly and almost wholly agricultural countries, and though it may be that in the past the fruits of their soil were able to draw a goodly ransom from the markets of the world, that has not been the case during these latter years, when agricultural markets have been glutted and prices have often fallen to a disastrously low level. At present a majority of the Colonies cannot finance from their own energies and out of their own resources their own proper developments. They cannot undertake some of the engineering, irrigation and other works of capital development, they cannot afford to finance the agricultural and veterinary research, and they cannot afford to increase their service of agricultural officers, all of which are essential if the exploitation of their economic resources is to be realised to the full. Nor can the territories in some cases afford medical research, the building of clinics, hospitals and schools, and the steady increase of their health, educational and other technical officers necessary if the standard of their social services is to be what it should be. Therefore the Government are introducing this legislation, because the British people who have assumed responsibilities for these Colonies in these circumstances must assume responsibility for providing the wherewithal for establishing these works. This principle has been partially recognised in the past. There is, for instance, the existing Colonial Development Act. That Act is a most valuable Measure which has been on the Statute Book for the last 10 years, but it is one which this Bill now seeks to supersede. Those who are familiar with the Debates of 1929 will remember that even then the primary purpose of our legislation was not to help colonial development for its own sake, but in order to stimulate that development mostly to bring additional work to idle hands in this country. It was devised as part of our scheme to solve our own unemployment problem. In that respect, as in other respects, the Bill which we are discussing this afternoon breaks new ground. It establishes the duty of taxpayers in this country to contribute directly and for its own sake towards the development in the widest sense of the word of the colonial peoples for whose good government the taxpayers of this country are ultimately responsible. I should like to pay a tribute to one of my colleagues whose part in the achievement of this policy I have not noticed commented upon in the newspapers or elsewhere. It is very easy for a Colonial Secretary to devise a policy like this, and it is extremely easy for the Colonial Secretary to advance upon the Treasury and ask for several million pounds to be devoted out of the Revenue for this purpose, but it is not easy for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to grant that request. It is particularly difficult for him to do it in the middle of a great war, when many other urgent, irresistible and incalculable demands are being made upon his resources; but my Noble Friend who is being introduced this afternoon into another place, Viscount Simon, never demurred. He encouraged and supported these proposals as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he accepted them, and I think that he, and his advisers in the Treasury who were equally sympathetic, deserve our praise for high statesmanship and vision. This legislation proposes fresh departures in a number of directions from the points which have been reached by our existing Colonial Development Act. Briefly, I should like to mention the three most important of these. First, the moneys to be made available for colonial development are to be multiplied more than five-fold. Instead of a fund restricted to a maximum of £1,000,000 a year, this Bill would authorise expenditure on colonial research up to £500,000 a year, and expenditure on colonial development and welfare up to £5,000,000 a year. The provision with regard to research is to be made for an indefinite number of years, and the provision with regard to development and welfare is to be assured for the next ten years. These figures £500,000 and £5,000,000 are maximum figures so far as the present legislation is concerned. Even in more auspicious circumstances, and even if we were still in the blessed days of peace, it could not be supposed that we should arrive at once at that rate of expenditure. Time will be necessary for the careful working out and vetting of comprehensive well-balanced plans of development. Then time will be required for putting these plans into practice, and it will be some time after that before the many schemes involving development reach their maximum activity and costliness. Even in peace-time I think that that process of working up to the maximum of expenditure would perhaps take some two or three years, but in war-time, alas, other obstacles are likely to lie across the path. In some cases material which might be required for Colonial schemes will be being put to other more urgent uses, and in some cases labour which might be required for schemes of Colonial development will be engaged upon tasks which aim directly at the defeat of the enemy. I do not think that the maximum figures mentioned in this legislation are likely to be attained at any time during the war, but I can assure the House, and the great colonial audience outside this House, that we shall work towards these figures as far as and as fast as the exigencies of these unhappy times permit. The second new departure to which I wish to draw attention is this. Under the existing Act it is not only the money but the object on which that money can be expended which is somewhat limited. For example, money out of the existing Colonial Development Fund had to be spent upon objects which were concerned with the material development of the Colonies, and under that definition some of the most important activities of colonial Governments were absolutely debarred from obtaining any assistance. For example, technical education might qualify, but as regards all the rest of educational activity, a Colonial Government could only appeal in vain for help from the Colonial Development Fund. In this legislation we are going to widen the whole field of works and activity which we can assist. Certainly the Government will attach particular importance to giving assistance to work of economic development, because these are the works which will increase most rapidly the material wealth of the colonies concerned. These are the works which will enable us to exploit to the maximum extent the natural resources of these territories, and these are the works therefore which will put a colony at the earliest possible moment in a position to finance out of its own resources the administration and social services which are required.To which works is the right hon. Gentleman referring?
I was referring to all sorts of works, such as irrigation, agricultural development works, and similar works of economic development which will increase productivity. Our object under this legislation is to develop the Colonies so that as far as possible they become self-supporting units. But in the meantime their citizens must enjoy a proper standard of social services, and we shall count as qualifying for assistance under this Bill every part of the health and medical activities and every part of the educational activities of a colonial Government. In this legislation the word "development" has not a narrow materialistic interpretation. It certainly covers the development of the material economic resources of a territory, but it also covers everything which ministers to the physical, mental or moral development of the colonial peoples of whom we are the trustees.
There is in the existing legislation a third cramping provision which we propose to abolish under this Bill. For the moment money out of the Colonial Development Fund can be contributed only towards the capital cost of works. We cannot contribute a penny towards the normal maintenance cost of those works. We can contribute towards the erection of a research station or a hospital or to the making of an improved transport system in a Colony, but we cannot contribute any money towards the running costs of those schemes once they have been created and established. Therefore, if a Colony could not afford out of its own revenue to maintain those hospitals, research stations or improved methods of transport, and so on, which it might have been given, those benefits to the Colony never came into being at all. It has been a rigid principle of Colonial policy up to date that every Colonial territory should be a self-supporting unit and that its citizens should have only those services which they themselves out of their own moneys could afford to maintain. That was a restriction which hit very hardly some of the smaller and poorer Colonies, and because of it they have had to do without services with which they really ought to have been supplied. Therefore, this legislation proposes to abolish that inability to make payments out of the Exchequer towards the maintenance cost of development work. If this Bill goes through Parliament we shall be able in future to contribute towards not only the initial costs of establishment but the running costs of any of those services which are needed in these days for the proper welfare of Colonial people. These are the main alterations which we propose in the provision made by Parliament for Colonial development. They are set out in Clauses 1 and 2 of the Bill. Clause 2 provides for the closing of the existing Colonial Development Fund and for the demise of that statutory Colonial Development Advisory Committee which for the last 10 years has administered the Fund. Before that body passes away I should like to express the sincere thanks of the Government and of this House to its chairman, Sir Alan Rae Smith, and to its other members for their long, prudent and fruitful services to the Colonial Empire. When they reflect upon the death of their Fund under Clause 2 I believe that they will feel more than amply consoled by the announcement of the birth in Clause 1 of a larger, more lusty and more richly endowed child to carry on the work which they have had so much at heart. These are not the only benefits which the Colonies are to derive from this legislation. We have taken the opportunity to do something else. Development in some of the Colonies has not only been held up in some cases through lack of funds; it has also been embarrassed by a heavy burden of debt attaching to their governments. A large part of those debts were owing to the United Kingdom Exchequer. From time to time in the past for various purposes we have lent the Colonial Governments considerable sums of money. For instance, during the last war we lent for various war purposes sums amounting to nearly £3,000,000 to three East African territories. Those particular loans are not touched by this legislation, but we have taken the opportunity to review every other debt of a Colonial Government to the United Kingdom Exchequer. We found that the grand total of those debts amounted to something like £15,000,000. As the result of our review of the situation we make provision under Clause 3 of this Bill for the remission of something over £11,000,000 of those debts. In fact, what we are doing is to clear the decks of any unnecessary encumbrances that may lie in the way of the vigorous development of the Colonial Empire. When the Government statement on Colonial development and welfare was first published a few months ago some people regarded it as a very pious declaration. They thought it a wordy statement of good intentions, proclaimed for the sake of creating a good effect but not to be followed by the substance of action. I hope that the early presentation of this Bill will remove some of the doubts of those people. I should like to offer certain other evidence of our resolute purpose to go ahead as fast as we can with this policy. This development of policy, this new policy, will mean a great deal of additional work for the Colonial Office in London. We have to expand our organisation there so that it can accomplish its new task. I should like to mention three or four of the changes which have been made in the Colonial Office during recent months in order to equip it to undertake this work. First, we have strengthened greatly the economic staff. Recently an additional Assistant Under-Secretary of State was appointed and he is devoting a good deal of his time to economic questions. In addition, the economic department in the office has itself had an effective increase in its personnel. Second, we established about 18 months ago in the office a social services department. It is in very good working trim and it also has had an addition to its personnel in recent weeks. Third, we are increasing the staff of the Secretary of State's special official advisers on social questions. For example, hitherto the chief medical adviser has had one assistant adviser. We propose that in future he should have two to help him in his work. Until recently there was no education adviser as such to the Secretary of State. Such an officer was appointed at the beginning of this year and we now propose that he should have an assistant adviser. If necessary at a later date he will have a second assistant. I know that in some quarters there was a disposition not very long ago to criticise the personnel of the Colonial Office. I think I am qualified to express a view upon that. After two years' experience I say deliberately that I think that the personnel of the Colonial Office is as able as the personnel of any of the high offices of State. That, indeed, is as it should be. I formed the highest admiration of the energy, enthusiasm and capacity for constructive thought and action of the general staff in Downing Street which watches over the interests of the Colonial Empire. Of course, this is a policy on which we should not depend solely for advice on our official advisers. There is a great deal of personnel outside official quarters who are experienced and wise in Colonial matters. The Government ought to draw on that experience and wisdom and that is why, although no statutory advisory committees are being set up under this Bill, we propose to establish two new advisory committees as part of the policy of Colonial development and welfare which was announced a few months ago. There will be one advisory committee, partly official and partly unofficial, on Colonial development and welfare, and another committee on Colonial research. I am glad to be able to announce that we have secured to preside over those two committees two individuals who have a wide knowledge and a great wisdom in dealing with Colonial problems. The chairman of the Committee on Development and Welfare will be Lord Moyne, and the chairman of the Committee on Colonial Research will be Lord Hailey. In the midst of a struggle for our very lives the British Government are launch- ing on new action which is worthy of the highest traditions of our Imperial policy. I will say no more than that. This is not a time for flowery oratory. This is not a time to celebrate in speech our great Imperial record. It is not a time for boasting. It is a time for that quiet inner confidence that in the struggle which now faces us we shall prevail and we shall survive, and that in the days of peace which our exertions shall regain for us it is our destiny to complete the great work for our Colonial peoples to which we set our hands long ago.4.45 p.m.
In making my maiden speech, I know that this House will accord me that consideration which is customary on such occasions. I should like, if I may, to congratulate the new Minister on his appointment and to say that we wish him well. I should also like to congratulate the outgoing Minister on being able to introduce this Bill, for which, after all, he was responsible. I welcome this Bill for several reasons. First, because it gives us another opportunity of refuting the accusations of our enemies that we won the Empire by rape and that we play the part of the dog-in-the-manger. Let us look at the facts. Not less than seven-tenths of our far-flung Empire is completely free and self-governing. India and Ceylon are in process of becoming so. No preferential tariffs are possible in the African Colonies or the Mandatory territories. Their markets and their produce are equally available to all. Germany actually had a favourable trade balance with our Colonies before the war. As to the charge of rape, much of the Empire was won by the sword, but it was mainly won from our present Allies, the French and the Dutch, and from our foes of ancient days, the Spaniards. The rest was mainly acquired by voyages of discovery, by peaceful trade, and through chartered companies. But whatever the method, the result is apparent to all: Every man, of every creed and of every colour, is a free and independent citizen. That is why the whole Colonial Empire, without exception, has rallied to the cause of the Motherland, giving men, money and help to the utmost of its power.
Again, I welcome this Bill not only for the remissions of loans that are being made but for the grants that are promised. Tropical agriculture is still in its infancy, and with research and improved methods of cultivation, marketing and transport, there is nothing we need that cannot be grown in, and supplied by, the Empire. With the probable exhaustion of our foreign investments, and the difficulties of exchange that must ensue, this will be of vital importance in the future. But let us not forget that, though we have our duties to the natives, it is the white settlers and administrators who have invariably been responsible for such improvements and progress as have been made, more particularly in the conquest of tropical diseases. In this and other respects I hope that we shall co-operate with our French Allies. In my travels I have been immensely struck with the magnificent work done for the French African Empire by that splendid man the late Marshal Lyautey whose record will live for generations. Even more important than grants for administration and research is the need for bringing prosperity to the inhabitants, and to the communities at large. Much of the depression in the West Indies has been caused by the fact that in the past we have purchased Central European beet sugar, subsidised for export, rather than West Indian cane. This folly must stop. We should buy Empire citrus fruit before Californian, Empire tobacco before Virginian, Kenya coffee before Brazilian, Empire cotton before foreign, Empire maize before South American. Bulk purchases could be paid for partly in cash and partly by credit notes for British goods. The African natives' love for bright cotton goods should give opportunities for restoring prosperity to Lancashire rather than benefit Japan. If we can bring prosperity to the Colonial Empire, we shall be repaid again and again. Now for a word upon the social, medical and educational services. These, coupled with fair wages, are, to my mind, far more important than high wages without social care, and it must not be forgotten that the producer has to compete in world markets. But I would insist that companies and individuals who are developing the Empire and making profits should devote some portion of those profits to the maintenance and extension of social services and to welfare work. It is done in many cases, and it would protect the good employer if it were made compulsory for all. Bodies like the Boy Scouts, with their minimum of one good deed a day, are doing wonderful work in Africa. A little financial assistance in that direction would repay itself a thousand fold. But we also need Empire teaching at home. The B.B.C. broadcasts and the Imperial Institute films are doing good work in the schools. But how many school children realise that 25 per cent. of our air pilots come as free volunteers from the Empire? There is something to capture the imagination. Teach the school children to be proud of their cousins overseas, some 60,000,000 of whom live in the Colonies. Make more use of the Empire societies. One alone has raised £50,000, mainly from overseas sources, for cigarettes and comforts for the troops. How many hon. Members know that over 2,000,000 children in British schools throughout the country will pay 1d. each on Empire day to the same fund for the troops? Each will receive a coloured certificate of thanks, with his name on it, for helping to provide comfort and contentment for the soldiers, sailors and airmen of the British Commonwealth, who have rallied to the cause of safeguarding freedom, justice and security. I should like to pay a tribute to the teachers for the magnificent way in which they have co-operated to make this scheme a success. I think we might also pay a tribute to Sir Evelyn Wrench for thinking of and carrying out this scheme. A little imagination and appeal would go far to make children Empire-minded, proud of their overseas possessions, conscious of the responsibilities of Empire, and not unmindful of the debt of gratitude we owe. The Empire Marketing Board, under Sir Stephen Tallents, did yeoman service. This may have to be revived. We must do all we can to help the native races, but we must not forget our own settlers and pioneers. The first duty of a Government is to govern; be kind, be wise, be firm, but be just. Unbounded liberty develops into licence and even anarchy. Good government is the happy mean between dictatorship and decadence. The Empire has been built up by the wise and selfless rule of men from these islands, whose very existence we are now defending. Let us show the world that we not only stand up to our enemies but that we stand by our friends as well.4.51 p.m.
It is somewhat presumptuous that a comparatively junior Member of the House should be in the position of offering congratulations to the hon. and gallant Member for South Portsmouth (Sir J. Lucas). I may not agree with him in every particular of his speech, but I am certain that the House will welcome from time to time his contributions to our efforts towards shaping a policy for our Colonial Empire, because of his special experience and his special activities in regard to Britain overseas. I am certain that the right hon. Gentleman who introduced the Bill must be feeling profoundly disappointed that he will not see it right the way through to the Statute Book. I should like not only to acknowledge his courtesy at all times when Members of the House have approached him on Colonial questions, but also to express my appreciation of the very hard and practical work he has done for the Colonial Empire since he was appointed to the Colonial Office. I view his departure with a certain amount of misgiving. I am not too happy about his successor, but I am very certain that the House of Commons will find in the Under-Secretary a person of profound sympathy with and understanding of the problems which confront us in the Colonies. Therefore, while I express my sorrow that the right hon. Gentleman is departing from the Colonial Office, I say on behalf of my colleagues on these benches that we look forward to a very promising time of fulfilment so far as the Under-Secretary is concerned.
The Labour party give their whole hearted support to this Bill. It will, of course, be our responsibility and our duty from time to time to criticise the proposals which come from the Government Benches. We shall do our best to let it be known what the Labour movement is thinking about Government legislation and Government proposals, but in the main our co-operation will be sympathetic and full. The right hon. Gentleman pointed out that it is noteworthy that while this country is engaged at this moment in fighting possibly the greatest battle in history, we ourselves sit here quietly discussing a problem which at first sight seems a little remote from the Titanic conflict across the Channel. We have very much at heart the well-being and the future development of the Colonial peoples. This Bill marks, I think, the ending of the laisser faire attitude towards Colonial development and, I hope, the end of platitudinous talk about trusteeship. It would be quite easy for some of us on these benches to engage in a tirade against past neglects and our failure to develop the Colonies as fully as some of us would have wished, although I do not minimise the very considerable achievement inside the British Empire. I think the Bill before us reveals the marked change in public opinion regarding the Colonies. No longer do we regard them as our possessions. They are not places for easy profits for those who have the money to invest in them. We realise that our attitude towards them has to be constructive and positive. On the other hand, it is no good for us on these benches to talk of capitalist exploitation, or for Members in any part of the House to talk about the goal of self-government, unless they are prepared to help the Colonial peoples to get food, shelter, knowledge and health, and to bring to them economic organisation for the development of their well-being. As the right hon. Gentleman has reminded us, it is economic development which in the long run makes possible social services and welfare, and the ability of the Colonial peoples to stand on their own feet. The late Secretary of State has told us that the original Colonial Development Act was more concerned with finding employment in this country than with Colonial development and the well-being of the Colonial peoples, and has pointed out the grave limitations under that Act. I do not want to repeat the criticisms of that Act which he himself has made. I should like to join with him in expressing our gratitude to all those who have shared in the work of the committee concerned with the administration of that Act, but in spite of the excellent stimulus it gave to economic development, a great deal remains to be done because of the restrictive effect of the Measure in certain directions. We welcome this Bill, therefore, because it makes far-reaching changes. While it still retains, I understand, facilities for making grants-in-aid where certain Colonial Governments require them, it makes possible social as well as economic development. It opens out prospects of economic schemes and works which, under previous conditions, were extremely difficult. I am convinced that, if used imaginatively and constructively, with long-term planning, the Bill, when it becomes an Act, will confer very great benefits on our Colonial Empire. In the preface to the Bill it is pointed out that, for some time to come, it is not likely that the £5,000,000 asked for will be required. We must appreciate that there are vast pieces of work requiring to be done. Every investigation and every report of a Commission indicates clearly the great amount of economic and social work which is urgently desirable. The right hon. Gentleman told us recently that at least £1,000,000 of the £5,000,000 would be devoted to the West Indies, and in another connection he pointed out that a considerable sum would be required to put the Arabs on their feet in Palestine. There will not be too much money available for other parts of the Empire. The cost of Empire has not, so far, been extraordinarily great to us. We have not gone into Empire-making with the same zest that some of the would-be Colonial Powers have shown in the past. Italy spent vast sums in trying to put up a good show in Northern Africa as to what a colony might become under her rule. Likewise, Germany, before the war, in her brief 12 years as a Colonial Power, spent £70,000,000 in developing 1,000,000 square miles. During the past 10 years we have spent little more than £12,000,000 in grants-in-aid, and £5,000,000 in other grants out of the Colonial Development Fund. It is undesirable of course, that the funds that will be made available should be used for spectacular schemes. There must, of course, be a tackling of the major troubles such as disease, irrigation, soil erosion, lack of transport and communications and so on, but the laying of the economic and social foundations in each of the Colonies is the vital thing. I think, with the wise use of money, steady progress can be made in agricultural improvement, health standards and educational advance, and we can go on rapidly bettering that economic organisation. Under the Bill, we abandon once for all the old principle that each Colony must be self-supporting. In connection with the administration of the Fund which will be set up under the Bill, great stress must be made on economic development. Here I agree with what the right hon. Gentleman has said, that, while it is desirable, as far as possible, that Colonies should be self-supporting, we should not, shall I say, attempt to pauperise them. It is therefore important that the greatest possible stress should be placed on the economic aspects of the problems of the Colonies. Of course, some Colonies are doomed to poverty and to becoming a liability, but we want a vigorous and far-seeing policy in every case so that the liabilities shall not be permanent. We want the Colonies to be less the prey of world forces, of fluctuating prices and other precarious economic conditions. That means a vigorous economic attack. I am glad also that it is proposed that the administration of the money is not to be highly centralised, but will be administered in such a way as to build up local responsibility. The man on the spot will be encouraged, I hope, to collaborate with a widening circle of people who are concerned. The Colonial Office, with all the apparatus which the right hon. Gentleman has described, will be available to assist in the work. I would draw the attention of the House to the importance of recognising that those Colonies which have already put their finances in sound order should not be prejudiced because of that fact. It is not only the Colony which is, at the moment, in poverty and unable to pay its way, that needs our help; it is also those Colonies which have tackled their special problems and have been able to secure a balanced Budget. That brings me to a point on which the right hon. Gentleman has not so far touched. The question of taxation in the Colonies ought to be looked at. In his White Paper he said:The recent Under-Secretary of State, when this matter was discussed in another place, pointed out:"In some territories, larger revenues could be raised without injustice by adjustment of taxation, and considerably heavier local taxation has, in fact, been accepted in most of the Colonies since the outbreak of the war."
He went on to say:"The whole effort must be a joint one with the Colonies themselves."
I welcome that statement, because I believe that, in the past, had taxation been more wisely conceived, some of the difficulties which we have to face to-day would not be with us. There is another point to which the attention of the House should be drawn, and that is the great flow of wealth from certain of the Colonies in the way of profits and royalties. The right hon. Gentleman told us that he wanted the money under this Bill used for greater exploitation of the mineral and other resources of the respective territories. That is all very well, so far as it goes, but I would illustrate my point by directing his attention to the case of Northern Rhodesia. This case can be multiplied by reference to other Colonies. In Northern Rhodesia, where, recently, there has been an acute dispute, involving both white and African labour, because of the intolerable working conditions and pay of the men concerned, the problem is very largely the inadequacy of the remuneration of Africans and the fact that the natural resources are in the hands of alien people. In 1937, copper raised in Northern Rhodesia was sold to realise not less than £12,000,000. Only £1,000,000 of that sum found its way to the Africans. In point of fact, their actual wages were between £200,000 and £300,000. If one multiplies that by two or three, to allow for food and the other services that they received, £1,000,000 will be an ample figure of the reward received by them out of the £12,000,000 realised on the copper raised. It is true that £700,000 was paid by way of Income Tax and £500,000 was sent out of the Colony as royalties to the British South Africa Company, which happens to own the materials, by virtue of a doubtful treaty with the King of the Barotse, made 40 years before. No less than £5,000,000 was paid to non-resident shareholders, while the people who produced the copper and did the work, the Africans themselves, received £1,000,000. White labour received less than £1,000,000. Most of the money went into the pockets of alien owners who were interested in Africa only in trying to get profits. That illustrates the flow from many of the Colonies rich in mineral and other resources of wealth which ought to be retained for the development of the social services and for the welfare and happiness of the Africans themselves. If we want the economic advance of the Africans, they should not be divorced from ownership and the enjoyment of their own natural resources. So far as the marketing of exportable wealth is concerned, it should be dealt with by responsible controls for or by the Africans themselves. I would like to make another point. Private enterprise, has, in the past, been supported by the Colonial Development Fund. There should be substantial safeguards for the public in respect of future grants. I turn for a moment to the proposals as to how the £5,000,000 is to be utilised. We were informed previously that £1,000,000 was to be made available for implementing the recommendations in the Report of the Royal Commission to the West Indies. We shall await with interest the White Paper which has been promised by the Colonial Office on schemes which can be put in hand, both immediately and over a long period. I desire, in this connection, to remind the House of the fact that the Government accepted the period of 20 years for the £1,000,000 grant, in the place of the 10 years which is now the figure in the White Paper presented with the Bill. I hope that when the Committee which will be appointed to deal with the administration gets down to its work, it will not feel itself restricted by the 10 years' limit. I am glad to note that, already, very considerable new works have been put in hand in the West Indies. All I would do now is to emphasise the paramount importance of economic reconstruction in the West Indies. I would like to emphasise that British Guiana should be opened up in a vigorous, downright way. Money should be spent on land settlement, mixed farming, production for the West Indian market, and, particularly, on the introduction of small industries. This is economic work which cries out to be done. Another part of this £5,000,000 is to be spent on Palestine. The Arabs are to be helped in a considered land policy. This has been promised for a very long time, and it is a development which I think all will agree is long overdue. If the unhappy consequences of the new land-transfer policy are to be averted now that certain other schemes have been postponed, then the fullest co-operation should be encouraged between the Jews and the Arabs. I am certain that if in the restricted areas the Jews can be brought in a little more freely than has been indicated by the right hon. Gentleman in the land regulations, they will assist and co-operate with the Arabs to the utmost. This money should be used in order to create a new land policy for the small tenant Arab and for Jewish settlers alike. I would like the Fund used as a means for co-operation between these two people who unfortunately have been flung into antagonism in recent years. The right hon. Gentleman, in introducing this Bill, also referred to educational needs. I have no time this afternoon to indicate the way in which the educational services in the Colonies are starved for want of money. That Colony of which we are so proud, Nigeria, has not been able to make any advance or new developments in its educational work over a number of years because of the absence of money. There are big gaps in the existing educational scheme, and if hon. Members desire to know a little of what might be done in regard to planning for education in the Colonial Empire, I would refer them to the article in the April number of "Overseas Education," a journal for which the recent Secretary of State has some responsibility. I am glad to note that in this Bill no schemes of work are to include children under 14 years of age, and I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on the introduction of so important a point. There are one or two things I desire to say in regard to the right hon. Gentleman's explanatory note accompanying the Bill. In his White Paper he refers to the Fund as one which will bring benefits to the inhabitants of the Colonies. I want to stress what has been for many years a vital principal in Colonial administration, that in the consideration of who are inhabitants the paramount interest must always be the African peoples themselves so far as the African Colonies are concerned, and the natives of the other Colonies, before the alien settler or other peoples arrived. Therefore, when we read the word "inhabitants," we should not forget the doctrine of the paramountcy of the native interests. Further, we were told in another place that the committee which was to administer this Fund was to be composed of two parts. One part was to comprise officials, and the other part was to comprise business men with social interests. So far as the unofficial side of the committee is concerned, we want not merely business people with social interests. We want people with a large, liberal outlook, who are concerned with social and humanitarian interests. Therefore, I hope that in setting up this committee a more liberal interpretation will be employed in considering the qualifications of persons to serve. The right hon. Gentleman has drawn our attention to the vigorous way in which the Colonial Office intends to tackle the question of research. I have felt a little ashamed at times when reading in the reports of the Colonial Office that we have had to rely to no little degree on outside help in order that necessary research should be carried out. If we are Empire builders, we should appreciate the importance of research and be prepared to pay for the fact. But we have had to use American money, and we are exceedingly grateful to the Carnegie Corporation and to the Rockefeller Foundation for their assistance. Now by this Bill is our chance for reorganising and co-ordinating research. We may be confident that the money spent will not be doles for relieving penurious communities but will be sound investment which will bring back a hundredfold, helping economic development and promoting the well-being of the peoples concerned. I hope, too, that certain sociological and economic problems will be included within the scope of research. What is so baffling to many of us in looking at the conditions of the people in the Colonial Empire is that we have not solved the problem of how to correlate the under-consumption of the masses of the people with the over-production of natural and mineral wealth in many parts of the Empire. That is one of the urgent problems in the building-up of the standard of life of the Colonial people. Finally, I want to say a few words about the relief which this House is giving in respect of past loans. It seems to me that we have sometimes given guarantees and expended freely with little foresight and not with great prudence. But if we study the proposals which accompany this Bill, we must admit that if progress in the Empire is to be made, many of the Treasuries must be relieved of the existing crushing burdens. Therefore, we must support the suggestions which have been put to us that certain of these big debts of the Colonies should be wiped out altogether and that the British Treasury should bear them. There is no less than £5,500,000 to be paid in respect of the Uganda Railway in Kenya. This railway, I believe, was originally constructed for certain strategic and possibly moral purposes. For some time I had been sceptical about the wisdom of wiping out altogether this large sum of money, but I must confess that the argument used by Sir Alan Pim in his review of the finances of Kenya are convincing and certainly persuasive. If indirect benefits can flow to the people of Kenya by relieving them of this debt, then I think we should do so. The history of this particular railway is a long and tortuous story, but I think in the long run it is sound business for us to exempt the Kenya Government of this burden. I should like a little more information about the £1,000,000 which we are wiping out so far as the Tanganyika and Nyasaland railways are concerned. It has been pointed out to us that we are not likely to recover this money in the days to come. I welcome the suggestion that the £1,000,000 or more which is owed to us by the South African Protectorates should also be borne by our Government. I think this is a liability which is largely due to our own past neglect. It has been a sad story that until comparatively recently the Protectorates have been neglected, and have not been too good an example to their immediate neighbours, the Union of South Africa, as to the methods of British administration. A positive policy in those Protectorates has long been necessary; there- fore, I welcome very much the wiping-out of this £1,000,000 and I hope the Government will energetically pursue a positive, constructive policy in these territories. In regard to Newfoundland, we relieve that Government of £600,000. In recent years there has not been a great deal of economic prosperity flowing to the people of Newfoundland as a result of the work of the Commission Government there, and I would suggest seriously that the time has come, particularly because of the sacrifices of the Newfoundland people in this war, again to admit them into the Councils of their State. If we cannot restore full democratic government now, at least we should make a start by creating an Advisory Council in order that they may be admitted more and more into responsibility for their own Government. There are other items on which I would like to have passed comments, but I will conclude by expressing the hope that although there is war there will not be undue delay in implementing the terms of this Bill. The Secretary of State said that with a resolute purpose the Government would go ahead as fast as possible. We on these benches welcome the Bill; we hope its policy will be energetically pursued and that it will contribute to the improvement and building-up of the social standards of life of the people and the full economic development of the territories. Let us work for a Colonial Empire which Britain as a Colonial Power may well be proud of in the days to come."I think, personally, from their reactions, they are well aware of these responsibilities. Actually, within the last seven months or so—that is, since the war began—we have found that Income Tax has been imposed for the first time in four Colonies and that greatly increased rates of Income Tax have been imposed in fifteen more….In the past, richer members of the community have not borne their full share of the burden. It is, therefore, very gratifying to see that they are now realising their responsibilities, and it will be remembered that one of the recommendations of Lord Moyne was that the rates of Income Tax should be increased. We are at the present time taking up with the Governors of the West Indies the question of whether rates of Income Tax could not be brought into line with pre war rates in this country."
5.28 p.m.
I am glad to have this early opportunity of expressing my congratulations to the hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. George Hall) on his appointment as Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies. He has imagination and sympathy, and he will find plenty of scope for exercising those qualities in the important office which he has assumed and in which I and his friends wish him success. I also wish to congratulate the Minister of Health on producing this Bill and promoting the policy to which this Bill gives expression. His transposition, if I may say so, means a great loss to a Department in which he has served so energetically and conscientiously in many difficult times. I welcome this Bill very heartily. I think it is commendable that at a time when our thoughts are largely and anxiously concerned with the dangers which beset us we should turn aside for a short time to say that we are not unmindful of other responsibilities which devolve upon us.
The Colonial Fund has undoubtedly done a great deal of good in many of our Colonies. Perhaps I may be forgiven for saying that the most useful function that it has performed has been to show its inadequacy. That is shown by the Command Paper which was recently published—a very excellent paper, if I may say so—and by the introduction of this Bill. We want to profit from our experience. If we are to get the highest possible advantage from these new proposals, we must bear in mind not only the amount of the fund, but also its administration and the purposes to which it is to be devoted. In regard to the amount, there is not much that one can say. It is bigger than what we have now, but it belongs to that category of subscriptions of which it can be said that "all donations will be gratefully received." It is a large sum to give, but a small sum to expend in view of the urgent needs. I turn to the administration. This will require great knowledge, great vision, great foresight, and great sympathy. I was glad to read, in the Command Paper, that the Secretary of State's view of his duties in relation to the local authorities was that he should advise and guide them and not dictate to them. I wish that that policy had been acted upon a little more in the past; it would have prevented a great deal of friction. I am sure that that represented the right hon. Gentleman's policy, and also that it represents the policy of his successor. That is very vital. I want to ask a question about the functions to be entrusted to the Advisory Committee. I understand that this is not a statutory body. In fact, there are, as I understand, to be two bodies, and I should like to know more about their proposed functions. I am not suggesting that those functions should be defined; I do not suppose it is possible to define them, or that it would be advisable if it were possible; but it would be better that we should know a little more about what is intended. I am not criticising these proposed bodies; on the contrary, I welcome them. There is in this country a large number of men and women, of great ability, with intimate knowledge of native conditions and experience of native administration, and it is an admirable proposal that the Secretary of State should consult them about policy, and also in regard to the long-term programmes which it is one of the objects of this Bill to encourage. But I hope that it will not be necessary for every scheme put forward by local authorities to be scrutinised by a body which should not necessarily be in continuous session. There are, among other considerations, two which are vitally important. One is that proper weight should be given to local opinion. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that, save in special circumstances, and for very particular reasons, local opinion ought to be the decisive factor in the adoption or rejection of schemes which are put forward. The other consideration is that all unnecessary delays should be avoided. I feel bound to mention this, because I recently had the privilege of serving upon the Rhodesia-Nyasaland Royal Commission, and we heard evidence, more particularly I think in Northern Rhodesia, about great delays which have occurred, and which were then occurring, in connection with the consideration of schemes. I do not know whether all of those complaints were justified—it was clearly impossible for us to examine each one in order to see whether there had been delay—but the impression was left on my mind that there had been delays which had caused inefficiency and which—not less important—were depressing those members of the European communities who were anxious to play their part in the government and administration of the territories. It seems to me that such delay is inevitable under the present procedure. I heard of cases where a district commissioner had to submit schemes, dealing with matters which as subjects of broad policy were insignificant, but in their local effect were of great significance—matters which could have been dealt with by an ordinary clerk—to the provincial administration, and that the schemes had then to be submitted to the Governor, and that he in turn had to submit them to the Secretary of State. In some of these Colonies, the files of departments dealing with insignificant matters assume proportions which are enormous, and which are a great drain upon time and temper, apart from the great wastage of paper. In this Command Paper, a fresh spirit has been intro- duced. I hope that when this new policy is brought into operation, opportunity will be taken to meet what is a real grievance in some of the territories which come under the administration of the Colonial Office. I hope that something will be done to avoid this delay. There should be greater decentralisation as between the Colonial Office and the central Governments of the Colonies, and as between the Governments of the Colonies and the provincial administrations. There is another suggestion that I should like to make. The right hon. Gentleman, I think, realises the value of this question, because he has, in the Command Paper, anticipated my criticism, and, indeed, the suggestion that I am about to make. I am not making this suggestion merely on my own responsibility, because it is made in the Report of the Royal Commission to which I have referred. The right hon. Gentleman has referred to various changes which have taken place in what I might call the administrative part of the Colonial Office. Among other things, he takes pride in the fact that a large number of his officers from time to time visit the various Colonies. If he tells me that that is so, I take it as a fact. But in all the criticisms which are concerned with this sort of thing, we are not attacking the personnel of the Colonial Office. I think that the Colonial Office is admirable in many respects. That some of its officers often visit different Colonies, is not the point. The point is, what they do when they get there. I fully realise that, on questions of broad policy, the Secretary of State must ultimately be the man to decide, but many schemes which are put forward by the Colonies do not involve broad questions of policy. There are other schemes which, even though they do involve questions of policy, cannot be put into operation except after the consideration of various local details. I suggest to the right hon. Gentleman—he cannot adopt my suggestion now, but he might pass it on to his successor—that there should be a system of frequently and regularly sending out from the Colonial Office in London to the various Colonies officers who will not merely go there for a visit—I do not like to say, for a joy ride—but armed with authority to decide questions of detail on the spot, in consultation with the local Governments, instead of having to refer these questions back to the Colonial Office. Another thing that I am glad to see in the Command Paper is that it is definitely established that grants out of this Fund are not to entail financial control. This financial control has been a bugbear in many of the Colonies. I have no doubt that the Treasury is a very great institution, but it is a very difficult institution in many respects. I do not want to mix my metaphors, but the Treasury, instead of being a live wire, has often been a dead hand. It has been proved so in Colonial administration. I am reminded of the position in Nyasaland. I am glad that this Bill includes provision for wiping out the liability which the Government of Nyasaland incurred by reason of its guarantees in respect of the Trans-Zambesia Railway. That is a very valuable concession. I say frankly, in the presence of the right hon. Gentleman, that when I signed my name to the inclusion of this proposal in the report, I felt very doubtful whether the right hon. Gentleman would be able to persuade the Treasury to agree. I congratulate him on his success. But what will be the effect on Nyasaland in regard to Treasury control? There has been very strict control in Nyasaland for many years. One of the reasons was the existence of the liability in respect of this railway. Does this mean that there will be a relaxation in the strictness of the control exercised by the Treasury over the finances of Nyasaland? Secondly, does it affect another matter, which is very vital in the life of Nyasaland? When the standard revenue of Nyasaland exceeds £420,000 a year, it is provided that half of the excess shall be taken for the repayment of past loans. Does this mean that that provision will disappear, to the great advantage of that little, but very progressive, community, Nyasaland? The third question concerns the purposes to which this Fund is to be devoted. I am glad that some of those hampering conditions which affected the 1929 Act are to be abolished. It was not merely that there were statutory limits to the purposes for which the Colonial Development Fund could be employed, but that even the interpretation of the purposes for which it could be employed was very strict. As I understand, the Fund is to have a much broader basis, and a much broader application. I was very glad to find that this new Fund may be employed for such purposes as agriculture, education and health. You may call it "economic development," "material development," or whatever you like, but economic development requires a reservoir of health as much as of wealth. There is nothing more appalling than the inadequacy of the facilities for education, health and housing in many of our Colonies at the present time. Therefore, if this Fund is to be put to its greatest possible use, the greater part of it must be used for development in this direction. If you take Central Africa and compare conditions in Northern Rhodesia—and even in Southern Rhodesia, where there is a very progressive spirit in, the matter of social reform—with Nyasaland, where health and educational facilities are better, owing mostly to British enterprise, the value of which cannot possibly be overlooked—if you compare these two neighbouring countries from the point of view of economic development, you will see what expenditure upon health and housing can do, not only for the happiness of the natives, but also for their health and efficiency as servants of the public in other fields than those of merely manual labour. Therefore, I am glad that this wider interpretation is being given under the Bill. There is not a field of human endeavour or a natural process in which there is not a great demand for the services of research in the Colonies. For goodness sake, do not start a scheme of research and then let it go down in the middle. I have found complaints about that sort of thing in the past. You start off with a scheme and work on it, say, for a couple of years, and then you are told that there is no more money available, and you have to close down. The result is that all the money has gone to waste, and it depresses and discourages any further effort in that direction. I do not think that £500,000 is enough, but, at any rate, it can do a great deal as long as it is carefully used and not too widely diffused among a large number of schemes. I finish, as I started, by welcoming the Bill. I am glad that it has this wider scope. It can be made to do a great deal of good, and I welcome it for that reason, and also as evidence of our appreciation of the fact that we are the trustees for the well-being of the peoples of the Colonial Empire. We are trustees not only for the natives, but also for the Europeans. I am sorry that the word "paramountcy" has been introduced. It is not a question of paramountcy but of partnership, and until we realise that fact, we shall never get the best possible development in the Colonies. Loyalty to the Crown is an impressive feature of native mentality and spirit. It has been freely expressed in the past, and it is being amply proved in the present emergency, and that fact should inspire us to even greater effort to prove ourselves worthy of our trust.5.49 p.m.
May I first congratulate the Noble Lord who has assumed this high office? He is a great Imperialist and a person of great energy, and I am certain that he, in conjunction with the Under-Secretary, with his interest and sympathy, will make a very good team and so help on the great work in the Colonial services. At the same time, while welcoming the newcomers may I also speed the parting Minister with a few compliments? He has had, in these two years, a very difficult time, troubles to deal with in Jamaica and Trinidad, he has had to contend with the great problem of Palestine, and he has had the reports of two Royal Commissions, in the West Indies, and in Rhodesia and Nyasaland—all very difficult matters with which to deal. Perhaps I may quote the beginning of an Ode of Horace which says:
and which translated reads:"Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem."
I think we can say that the late Minister carried out that maxim to the full. May I also say on behalf of a large number of unofficial members, not in this House, how much I know they have appreciated the late Minister's accessibility and sympathy. It makes a whole difference when people who come from overseas are received by the Minister and he goes into their troubles and acquires a thorough understanding of their problems. That also is one of the great mementoes which the late Minister will leave behind him. I am glad that this Bill is to be his swan-song. It is a purely financial Measure, and we ought to discuss it as such to-night. It deals with finance and development. We can regard the administration of our Colonies, to-night at any rate, in exactly the same way as we would regard the position of a finance and development company. The same process occurs in both. There are discovery, exploration, investigation, and finally investment. In a company, if an investment goes wrong, it is always possible to wind it up, but if an investment goes wrong in Colonial affairs, it is not possible to take such a course. There are strategic, political, humanitarian and other motives which prevent the cutting of the loss. There is, in short, very often a trust which cannot be surrendered, and so the business continues. In the Schedules to this Bill there is a list of loans which cannot be repaid or, as described in the Bill, loans proposed to be remitted. The same thing happens with a development company. An investment is made in the hope that by casting bread upon the waters it may return after many days, buttered. If the investment does not succeed, it has to be written off. At some time or other a stock-taking is necessary. That is what is happening at the present moment. This Bill provides for the stocktaking before proceeding to further development. The Bill deals with the dead as well as the living, the past as well as the future. Before we cast some of these items into the limbo of forgotten things, it may be advisable to give one lingering look behind at one or two of them. They represent the enterprise, the initiative and even the romance of the past. The first item with which I will deal—and I am going to deal only with those countries which I happen to know myself—is one of £5,500,000 for the Uganda Railway. The hon. Member for Shipley (Mr. Creech Jones), who is not here at the moment, I think, was wrong to suggest that there was any question of profit in the building of that railway. Actually, one of the main reasons for the building of the railway was the abolition of the slave trade, and, curious as it may seem, the Admiralty were one of the chief Departments which favoured the building of the railway because it was costing them £250,000 a year to police the seas against the slave traders of that time. There were other motives like that of controlling the back door to the Sudan, and, naturally, the support of missionary effort. The people in those days who were our missionaries and our pioneers were having a very difficult time among the natives of Uganda, and it was our duty to support them. In those days there was a considerable doubt as to whether we should keep Uganda once we were there, but in these days it is difficult to realise the position of those times. An agitation took place, and it was considerably assisted by the knowledge of a Major Lugard, now Lord Lugard. This agitation was based to a great extent on the strong feelings that existed at that time in connection with the slave trade and the name of David Livingstone. Anyhow, that railway was finally decided upon. There was no idea whatever of making a profit, and I cannot make out really why the money was left as a loan, because at that time nobody was expecting that Uganda, starting from scratch in about 1900, would produce, 40 years afterwards, 400,000 bales of cotton. Nobody could ever conceive that Kenya, which did not exist then as a Colony, and Nairobi, which was only a construction camp for the railway, would produce sisal, coffee, tea and gold. There was no hope of that railway being self-supporting. I do not agree with the hon. Member for Shipley, who is rather doubtful whether this item should be written off. These East African countries are mainly dependent on the limited resources derived from agriculture, and it is only with great difficulty that they are able to provide the social services that are required, and it is obvious to all of us that a country with a debt of this sort tied round its neck can never really prosper. The question of the guarantee by Nyasaland of the interest of the Trans-Zambesia debentures is an example of foresight, in those days by Lord Milner, and by my right hon. Friend the new Secretary of State for India. In 1921 I went up to Nyasaland by stern-wheeler from Chinde, at the mouth of the Zambesi, and then by railway to Nyasaland. All Nyasaland's products in those days had to go down the Zambesi in that way, and if there was to be any hope for Nyasaland, it was necessary that the Trans-Zambesia Rail- way should be built. It was decided that Nyasaland should guarantee the debentures. It turned out that that beautiful country, an agricultural country again, could not possibly provide the interest for this venture, and therefore in the Bill it is provided that £1,200,000 should be written off. While I am on the subject of Nyasaland, I should like to touch upon the matter which was raised by the hon. Member for the University of Wales (Mr. E. Evans) in connection with the recommendations of the Royal Commission of which he was so distinguished a member. That Commission suggested three solutions of the financial troubles of Nyasaland. I need not trouble the House with them now; they would cost another £1,500,000 if dealt with at the present time. I am only sorry, however, that when the stocktaking was made the axe was not laid to the root of the tree and that the Colonial Secretary did not see his way to deal with all these debts which hamper the country. After all, the Royal Commission stated:"Remember in difficult times to keep your mind well balanced."
I quite realise it would have meant an increase in the money which this Bill is remitting from £11,000,000 to perhaps £12,000,000 or £13,000,000, but it seems a pity that in a case like this the whole situation was not straightened out once and for all. There is one other small example. I see that the Bechuanaland Protectorate is being released a matter of £460,000. This is not so much a question of money spent through enterprise and initiative; it is a question of a very poor country. Any hon. Member who goes there in the dry season will wonder how the cattle can exist there. He will learn that there are very succulent grasses hidden away in the scrub and that this was the winter feed country of Lobengula. But there are few cattle, and the natives cannot possibly find the money to pay the expenses of administration. Therefore, it is necessary for us to make a clean sweep in Bechuanaland and wipe off this amount. If hon. Members have seen the report for 1938 on Bechuanaland, they will realise that some progress has been made, because the grants-in-aid during the last three years have been gradually diminishing, which means that investments made in the past have, to some extent, come to fruition. There is no need for me to give particulars of other countries, especially as I have not been there, but I do think that from this Schedule we can realise one thing. Our enemies have frequently sought to suggest that we have gone into Colonies and acquired territory entirely for commercial and financial reasons. But this Schedule is the answer. It shows that many of our Colonies are not paying propositions, and we must leave it at that. There are items which cannot appear in this Schedule. We must remember that we have taken away from the inhabitants the fear of slavery, we have taken away the fear of tribal wars, and we have taken away the fear of starvation. We are gradually by education removing the superstitious fear of the unknown, and we are gradually reducing the disease which prevails in all these countries. We are slowly building the steps leading from barbarism to civilisation. All these are items which cannot be shown in a profit-and-loss account. As regards the future, I would just say a few words about the £500,000 put aside for research, for the benefit of production of all sorts, and for the health of man and beast. I would like to pay a tribute to what some bodies, not the Government, have already done. If we consider what the Empire Cotton Growing Corporation has done during the last 20 years, we realise that the prosperity of some of these countries is largely due to the work they have done. In health matters we must all pay tribute to an institution like the Ross Institute, which has studied malaria far more than any Government could possibly do. The Northern Rhodesian copper mines have been mentioned, and it is here that owing to the work of the Ross Institute, in conjunction with the far-seeing co-operation of the directors and managers, in three years the deaths among Europeans from malaria were reduced from 23 per 1,000 to 9 per 1,000 and among Africans from 30 per 1,000 to 5 per 1,000. I hope that in future when this £500,000 is expended it will be possible to co-operate to the full with institutions such as the Ross Institute and those referred to by the hon. Member for Shipley—the Carnegie Corporation and the Rockefeller Foundation. As regards the £5,000,000 which it is proposed to spend in the future, I will deal only with the position of East Africa. I think we can look at it like this: For 30 or 40 years there have been exploration and pioneer effort, trial and error by Europeans. I disagree entirely with the statement that there has been no progress. If the hon. Member had been there at intervals of 10 of 15 years, he would have seen most surprising progress in the physical well-being of the people and the enormous increase which has taken place in the agricultural produce. Altogether an immense advance has been made. The foundation has been laid for a further advance. The time has come to make things happen rather than let them happen. But better planning and continuity are required. I am glad that in most of these countries there are economic and development committees already in being. They will be able to some extent to put forward in embryo plans for the future. It is impossible to suggest that the Colonial Office should produce these plans. It is difficult, without continuity, for local Governors to produce plans. I had an interesting conversation with one eminent Governor, and he told me his plans for the native well-being and development and said, "This means drawing on our balances and a 10 years plan, and I hesitate to put it forward because I shall be here for only f"In no other way can the load of existing debt be lifted, the growth of increased indebtedness on similar grounds be arrested and the financial control of the Treasury in Nyasaland be brought to an end."