House Of Commons
Thursday, 15th April, 1943
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
Oral Answers To Questions
National War Effort
Colliery Surface Worker (Prosecution)
2.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the widespread resentment in the district covered by the Leicestershire Mines Association at the action of the National Service Officer in prosecuting a young colliery surface worker employed at the Ellistown Colliery for refusing a direction to be engaged for underground work; that the young worker desired to be released for the Army and in consequence was sentenced to three months' hard labour; and whether he will reconsider his general policy and, in particular, allow this young man to join the Army?
On the recommendation of the Ministry of Fuel and Power the National Service Officer directed the young worker in question to take up underground haulage work at the Ellistown Colliery. He appealed unsuccessfully against the direction to the local appeal board, and the direction was accordingly confirmed. As he refused to obey the direction, he was prosecuted. With regard to the last part of the Question, I would refer to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Burslem (Mr. MacLaren) on 18th March.
Do I take it from that, that the right hon. Gentleman is considering a change in the general policy? If so, will he also take into consideration provision for consultation with the pit production committees, who know the local circumstances and the men?
In the original set-up for this business, the pit production committees were brought in, but it was at the request of the Miners' Federation that they were left out, and the responsibility was then undertaken by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Fuel and Power, for whom I act as agent.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a very great deal of dissatisfaction about this matter, and that a lot of bitterness is growing up? Will he have another look at the problem?
I have explained in the answer to the previous Question that I am agent for the Minister of Fuel and Power in this business. If the Miners' Federation will deal with my right hon. Friend, whatever changes he wishes to make I will carry out.
Spectacle Making And Repairing
4.
asked the Minister of Labour what percentage reduction there has been in the number of persons engaged in spectacle-making and repairing at the present time, as compared with 12 months ago?
I regret that the information asked for by my hon. Friend is not available.
Employment Agencies (Women)
5.
asked the Minister of Labour the nature of the difficulties which face him in endeavouring to fit the commercial employment agencies into the scheme of approved agencies under the Women (Control of Employment) Order; and whether, to assist in their removal, he will receive a representative deputation of the employment agencies concerned?
The difficulty is that my Department must, in the interest of the war effort, direct and control the movement of women workers. In reply to the last part of the Question, discussions have taken place between representatives of the London Employment Agents' Federation and officers of this Department on two occasions since the Employment of Women (Control of Engagement) Order was made, and unless there are some additional facts to be put forward no useful purpose would be served by a further deputation.
Will the Minister or his Parliamentary Secretary receive a deputation, which is a different matter from its being received by officers of the Department? It may be possible to get over the difficulties and make use of private concerns with success.
I will consider that suggestion.
Is the Minister not aware that some secretarial employment agencies are very much more efficient in recommending secretaries and such workers than his Appointments Board, which is sometimes unable to submit one name for some appointments for which the secretarial agencies or the ordinary agencies are able to submit half a dozen names? Why is that?
I do not accept that statement at all.
As some people are willing to pay these organisations instead of using my right hon. Friend's Department for nothing, does it not indicate that they think the organisations are better?
No, not at all. The Control of Engagement Order is set up for the purpose of running the war, and that is the prime consideration which influences my mind.
Is it not well-established that the commercial agencies have special knowledge and experience in dealing with young women engaged in domestic work for employment?
Essential Workers (Military Service)
6.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the demand for a second front made by certain men of military age, who are themselves debarred from participation by the obligation imposed on them to remain in their industrial occupations as esential workers; and whether he will make it possible for them to give more active help by permitting them to undertake military service?
I have no doubt that the general desire for what is commonly known as a second front is shared by many men of military age, who, on account of their occupations, are at present retained in civil life. I am afraid that I cannot undertake to release all such men from industry for the purpose of gratifying their desires, but any application from such men to volunteer for military service would receive careful consideration.
Is permission sought or obtained from the Minister of Labour to enable these young men to pay visits to London and other places, to advance their theories of military strategy?
No, Sir, I am afraid that no one comes to the Ministry of Labour to ask whether he should come to the House of Commons.
Are these young people not engaged on essential war production work?
I cannot answer that question. It may be that they were working on night shifts.
Mobile Women Workers, Wigan
7.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the three sisters Gilbody, ages 24, 22 and 19, of 15, Slackey Fold, Off Leigh Road, Hindley Green, Wigan, employed as screen hands at the pit-head of Gibfield Colliery, near their home, have been informed that they may be directed to leave their present employment for other work at Warrington, a distance away; and whether in view of the importance of the coal industry, he will put a stop to this?
I am having inquiries made and will communicate with my hon. Friend.
Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it seems a very strange thing to do to order pit-brow lasses, doing work in connection with the coal industry which is regarded as of such great importance, to work in some other occupation?
I am sure my hon. Friend will agree that I cannot answer this question until I know the facts.
Engineers (National Arbitration Tribunal Award)
8.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that engineers in certain towns have decided to ban overtime and work a 47-hour week as a protest against the recent award by the National Arbitration Tribunal and the way it is being interpreted by employers; and what steps he is taking to assist the Amalgamated Engineering Union to obtain from the tribunal a clearer interpretation of their award?
I have not received any request from the Amalgamated Engineering Union for assistance, and, as provided in the Conditions of Employment and Arbitration Order, it is open to any party to an award to apply to the tribunal if any question arises as to the interpretation of the award. This is the proper course to take if the need for interpretation arises.
Is the Minister of Labour not aware that there are certain towns where the men have refused to work overtime and are only working 47 hours—and that is not on the Clyde? Will he do what he can to get this situation eased in order that the men may have an opportunity of giving of their best?
I am not going to interfere in any way with the operations of the tribunal, which is an impartial body. The unions have their approach to it for their interpretation, and any man who is a member of a union and subject to executive discipline, and who disobeys that union in war-time and restricts production, is acting against the best interests of the country.
Is not the Minister aware that he has power, and has used it, to put workers in gaol for restricting production? Will he not put some of the employers in gaol?
Boys (Overtime)
10.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, in spite of some efforts to check illegal hours of work, thousands of boys are still being overworked through overtime and thus prevented from attending pre-service or apprenticeship classes; and whether he will take further action?
I am not aware of any evidence of illegal hours being worked to any considerable extent by boys and girls in contravention of the Factory Acts. The reports made by local education authorities in connection with the registration of boys and girls are now being examined, and I must await the result of this examination.
Is the Minister aware that evidence has now been available for some six months, and that I have evidence here that boys are going on parade at night and are quite incapable, in consequence, of attending their classes? I have heard that there is further evidence of the same thing happening in connection with apprentices. Will not the Minister reconsider this matter?
I have already answered my hon. Friend. I deny that this evidence was collated and available to the Government, as a whole, six months ago. We received a paper from the Board of Education quite recently, and immediately a committee was set up by the Government to go into the whole matter and make a report and recommendations.
When is that examination likely to be finished?
The committee is working full steam ahead.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that persistent overtime is bad both for youngsters and for adults?
That is perfectly true, but unfortunately it is not always a question that one can control. The constant representations to me for this or that urgent requirement make the thing extremely difficult.
Will the Minister relax the pressure for these long hours, so that employers of labour may take some steps to reduce hours, not only for boys but for men and women also, in order that their health, efficiency and happiness may be promoted?
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that suggestion. It has already been done by the Production Ministries, but I must be frank and say that the habit of overtime entering into wages also makes a difficulty.
Allied Powers (War Service) Act
9.
asked the Minister of Labour the position with regard to putting into force the terms of the Allied Powers (War Service) Act, 1942; and in what States and under what circumstances it is now proposed to apply it?
An Order in Council was made on 11th March applying the Allied Powers (War Service) Act to the nationals of Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Greece, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland and Yugoslavia. The Order came into force on 1st April, and the effect is that from a date determined by the Order (in most cases 1st June next) an Allied national of military age in this country who has not by that date joined his national Forces will become liable to be called up to the British Forces under the National Service Acts, unless he has been granted a certificate of exemption by his own Government.
Does that apply to women as well as to men?
I should like to have notice of that Question, because I am not quite sure.
Armed Forces And Civilians (Pensions And Grants)
14.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he can give the facts of the case of the boy of 15 years of age named T. J. Reynolds, of Meir, Stoke-on-Trent, who was gassed while fire-watching; and is it intended to compensate the boy's parents for their loss?
As I explained to the hon. Member in a letter dated 25th March, it has been accepted that this boy's unfortunate death is due to a war service injury and his father's claim to pension falls to be considered under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme. Pensions to parents under this scheme, as to parents of deceased members of the Fighting Services, are dependent on the existence of need broadly interpreted. Mr. Reynolds is not in need at the present time, but he has been advised that his case can be reconsidered on application should his circumstances worsen materially.
15.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has now given further consideration to the need for awarding a pension or allowance to all parents who have lost their sons or daughters; and what action does he intend to take?
I dealt with this question at some length in the Debate in the House on 23rd March, and I see no reason for modifying the views which I then expressed.
18.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will amend the Royal Warrant to enable the widow of a soldier, killed while returning from a 48-hour leave, to receive a pension, in view of the fact that, while the Royal Warrant may permit payment under the circumstances outlined if the soldier had been on regular leave, the 48-hour leave stands on a different footing?
19.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in the case of an accident to a soldier returning from leave, his pension rates are affected by the length or type of leave granted to him?
I can already accept liability for cases of death due to accidents occurring on the direct journey to or from a member's home when the leave has been granted exceptionally, for example, for compassionate purposes or for short embarkation leave, even though the leave is 48 hours or less. I regret that I am unable to recommend that the State should accept liability for similar accidents where the member has made a journey, whether to his home or elsewhere, whilst on pass or short leave.
Is the Minister aware that these differences seem to the public very difficult to understand? Here is a man killed anywhere in His Majesty's uniform; it seems difficult for the widow to understand how it is that she is not entitled to pension. Will he look into the whole of this matter and see whether there is not a way out?
I quite agree that it is difficult to understand, and I am giving this matter my most careful consideration. I have introduced, as hon. Members know, many improvements in connection with accidents, and I have still an open mind.
Can the Minister say specifically whether, under present conditions, there is any difference between a man on 48 hours' leave and one on seven days' leave in regard to compensation? If there is such a difference, surely he agrees that it is quite indefensible?
There is no difference in compensation. If pension is granted he gets the same pension as any other Service man. There is a difference, if it is 48 hours' leave or not, as to his title to pension. There is certainly a difference in that matter.
If going on pass or short leave is part of the regular practice of the Forces, why should there be any distinction?
It is just when it is not part of the regular practice of the Forces. It is when he is going out of his own volition.
Is the Minister not aware that when a man is on 48 hours' leave, just as when he is on seven days' leave, he is subject to military laws; he has to salute in the street when he is in uniform, and the circumstances are exactly the same?
I have to bow to my hon. Friend for knowledge of the present war and conditions during that period, and I will not comment on that, but there are other matters to take into consideration. I have already told the hon. Member who put the Question in the first instance that I am considering it.
20.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will give the number of cases in which compensation based on negligence has been denied to claimants who have been awarded payments under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme; and whether, in view of the disparity in the award under the scheme and the value of the case based on negligence, he will consider a review of all such scheme settlements?
The information in my Department does not enable me to say in how many cases, in which awards have been made under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, compensation based on negligence could have been claimed but for the operation of Section 3 of the Personal Injuries (Emergency Provisions) Act, and it follows that I am unable to undertake the review of such cases.
Having regard to the fact that under the scheme people are entitled to less in certain cases than they would have received if there had been no scheme, does the Minister think it right to continue to deprive people of their Common Law rights?
The Government decided at the beginning of the war that they would undertake liability for certain accidents and so forth. It is true they also took away the right of people to sue under Common Law. That is a matter, of course, of primary Government policy, not mine.
Pensions Appeal Tribunals
16.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether any legislation will be necessary before appeal tribunals are set up; and, if so, how long he thinks it will be before it is possible for the tribunals to commence their work of adjudicating on appeals?
The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. In the event of its being decided to introduce the necessary legislation, I am not able at present to give a reliable estimate of the time which must then elapse before the completion of arrangements to enable the tribunals to function.
Has it not already been decided that legislation is desirable, and is not the Minister going to implement that decision?
The hon. Member knows full well that any decision my Committee may arrive at must be conveyed to the Government for them to make the final decision.
17.
asked the Minister of Pensions what progress has been made in the direction of finding suitable personnel for appeal tribunals; and whether any steps have been taken to find suitable lawyers and ex-Servicemen for the tribunals?
I am not at present in a position to add to the statement I made in the House on 23rd March, except to say that my Central Advisory Committee, having received the report of the sub-committee, have made certain recommendations which are receiving consideration.
Can the Minister say when he is likely to be able to give a decisive answer in this case? Would it be possible before Easter?
I am hopeful that it will.
21.
asked the Minister of Pensions when he proposes to introduce the legislation necessary for the setting up of pensions appeal tribunals?
I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I have given to-day to Questions on the same subject by the hon. Member for the Bassetlaw Division of Nottingham (Mr. Bellenger).
May I ask the Minister to refer to his own speech some weeks ago, which gave real reason to the community to believe that legislation would be introduced at an early date? Will he implement the promise or give an indication when we are likely to receive this Bill?
My hon. Friend knows full well the procedure that has to be gone through before legislation is introduced. He knows very well that it is not any delay on my part.
Why does the Minister not get on with the job?
India
Railway Sabotage
22.
asked the Secretary of State for India whether sabotage on the railways in India is still in progress; and how many such instances have taken place in each of the last three months?
Instances of attempted sabotage on Indian railways continue to be reported. Some 61 such cases were reported during the last three months—28 in January, 16 in February and 17 in March. Most of these were minor attempts at interference with the track or railway property. Four only of the cases were serious or involved loss of life. These were two derailments in Assam, one in January and one in March; one derailment in Bihar in February; and a bomb explosion at Cawnpore railway station, also in February. One attempted derailment and four other minor attempts at sabotage have been reported since the beginning of April.
Have these treasonable acts been traced definitely to Congress inspiration?
They show that the trouble is not entirely over. We have to continue to be watchful.
Food Situation
23.
asked the Secretary of State for India the present position of the famine-threatened areas of India; what further measures have been taken to secure food supplies and their distribution; and the present price of rice in these areas and elsewhere?
I do not know to what areas in India the hon. Member's Question is intended to refer. But I am glad to be able to assure him that the Government of India's latest reports show the food situation generally to be much improved. The wheat, barley and gram crops are promising very well, and the millet crop has turned out much better than was expected. Last year's rice crop, though disappointing in view of the "Grow More Food Campaign," was well above the level of harvests which India has experienced in former years without serious trouble. The Government of India have held a conference with the Provinces and States are now concerting with them details of a plan whereby deficits and surpluses shall be balanced out under Government control, with the assistance of six regional commissioners. The principal anxiety at present concerns urban supplies of rice in Bengal, where the price is six times the pre-war figure. Supplies are being brought in from neighbouring areas, and I understand that, though enough is coming forward for immediate purposes, the supply is not yet sufficiently assured to bring down the present excessive price, and action is continuing with this object in view.
Would the right hon. Gentleman reply to the last part of my Question, as to the price of rice? While expressing gratification that the famine threat has at least diminished, may I ask whether he could say that there is no area in India where famine conditions continue?
No, Sir. If the hon. Member will read my full answer, he will realise that the only difficulty of the price situation is in certain urban districts in Bengal. I have given him average increases in price, as there are so many varieties of rice.
Death Sentence (Kayyur Peasants)
24.
asked the Secretary of State for India whether the death sentence on the four Kayyur peasants has been carried out; whether he gave advice on this matter to His Majesty's Governor-General; and what knowledge he has of representations for clemency made by Indian public men and organisations?
The death sentences were carried out on 29th March. I have given no advice in the matter to the Governor-General, to whom the exercise of the prerogative of mercy has been expressly delegated by His Majesty. I have received no report of representations made by Indian public men or organisations, but I have no doubt that any such representations were fully considered by the responsible authorities in India.
While one does not in any way condone acts of violence, does the right hon. Gentleman not appreciate that the execution of these four peasants is a moral and political blunder of tragic magnitude? Will he inquire of the Viceroy what representations were made in India, and why clemency was not exercised?
No, Sir. The matter was primarily one for the courts, and then for the Privy Council, to whom a special right of appeal was transmitted. The appeal was then rejected. When the appeal was rejected the prisoners had the right to appeal to the Governor-General for mercy, and no execution could take place before the Governor-General, in the exercise of the authority expressly delegated to him, considered that mercy should not be extended.
What crime had these people committed?
Stoning a policeman to death and drowning him while he was in the water.
Was there any specific evidence tendered against these four men who have been hanged, proving that they themselves had been party to the stoning?
I hardly expect that the hon. Member suggests that the judge who tried the case and the judge in the appeal acted without specific evidence.
The judge admitted that there was no evidence against these four men.
Charitable Collections (Control)
25.
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the numerous complaints made, he will take immediate steps to make it impossible for so-called charitable organisations, under existing war conditions, to collect money from the public under false pretences?
In addition to the provisions of the criminal law relating to false pretences, there are special provisions for the control of charities in the recent House to House Collections Act, 1939, and the War Charities Act, 1940. As I stated in reply to a Question on 26th November last, the inquiries which I made at that time did not show that the case for elaborating additional methods of control over charities is so strong or urgent as to justify at the present time further measures which would impose additional duties on local or other authorities.
Will my right hon. Friend cast his net a little wider, and end this ramp once and for ever? I am glad the Postmaster-General has done his part, and I hope the Home Secretary will do his.
Parliamentary By-Elections
26.
asked the Home Secretary how many Parliamentary seats have fallen vacant since 1st September, 1938; and how many have been contested and uncontested, respectively?
139 Parliamentary seats have fallen vacant since 1st September, 1938, and 77 of these have been contested.
I am putting no supplementary, because there are 87 Questions on the Order Paper.
Civil Defence
Fireguard Duties
27.
asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that people who live in Lichfield and work in Birmingham are required to fire-watch at their place of employment; that such duty inflicts hardship involving long periods away from home with difficulty in obtaining food; and whether he will, in view of the distances involved, consider allowing such people to fire-watch in the district in which they live?
The Fire Prevention Orders are based on the principle that a man's first duty is to assist in the protection of the place where he works. There is provision, however, for the consideration of individual cases of exceptional hardship by an independent tribunal.
Travel Permits, Northern Ireland
32.
asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the dissatisfaction expressed with the present arrangement, he will frame a regulation whereby all travellers from Northern Ireland to Great Britain over 14 years of age must have a travel permit before starting on the journey?
I am at present in consultation with the Government of Northern Ireland regarding a proposed amendment of the Passenger Traffic Order to regulate the travel between Ireland and Great Britain of children under 16 who are at present exempted from the requirement of a permit.
Does my right hon. Friend recognise the urgency of this question and the necessity for taking action?
I do recognise that, but here is a point on which for once I have been able to give my hon. Friend a sympathetic reply, which, I am sure, he appreciates.
National Fire Service Pen Sions (Local Authorities)
29.
asked the Home Secretary whether he is prepared to make any alterations to paragraph 2 of Article 8 of the National Fire Service (Preservation of Pensions) Act, 1925, Regulations 1941, and Fire Brigade Pensions Act, 1925, with a view to giving relief from an unfair burden placed upon the general rate fund of a local authority on the retirement on pension of a former member of its fire brigade in consequence of a war injury; what representations he has received on this matter; and what is the case against such relief?
When the fireman in question was appointed by the local authority as chief officer of their fire brigade in 1931, they became liable to pay any pension which might become due to him under the Fire Brigade Pensions Act, 1925. It is true that when he had to retire from the National Fire Service on medical grounds last year, the general rate fund of the local authority became liable for a portion of the pension not covered by the pension fund set up under the 1825 Act. The fact that the officer was a member of the National Fire Service when he was injured is not material. The Council would have been faced with precisely the same situation if there had been no National Fire Service. Moreover, it was part of the settlement with the local authorities when the National Fire Service was set up that the local authorities should remain liable for any pensions which might become due to ex-regular firemen, but should receive an Exchequer contribution in respect of ex-members of their brigades who might become entitled to pension, the contribution covering the average net pension liability. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the relevant circular. The local authority referred to in the Question, who will have received the appropriate contribution, have asked for Exchequer assistance in meeting their liability in this particular case, and this request was sympathetically considered: but I was unable to agree to any special payment from the Exchequer in respect of this pension. I regret that I can hold out no hope of any alteration of that decision.
Cycling Without Lights (Prosecutions)
30.
asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that persons are still being convicted and fined for riding bicycles without lights, even where evidence has been called to show that batteries are unobtainable in the particular neighbourhood; and whether he will now consider what action can be taken to meet this situation?
No, Sir. I have been informed that as a result of the operation of double summer time, together with the increased production of cycle lamp batteries, the recent difficulties have been overcome; but if my Noble Friend will send particulars of the cases he has in mind to me or to my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, the matter will be further investigated.
Has the time not come to stop arresting people for trivial offences, and to catch a few burglars?
Do I understand from the answer that my right hon. Friend will look into cases which have already occurred; and that where men have been fined and where it has been proved that they could not obtain batteries in the neighbourhood, he will have the fine remitted? Will he look into the matter?
Yes, Sir, I will look into the matter, but it would not be wise for me to give any general undertaking such as my right hon. Friend asks for. I did indicate to the police that they should take into account the circumstances of the case before prosecutions are made. But I think my right hon. Friend will agree that it is rather dangerous for the Home Secretary to interfere unduly with the operation of the law.
Without interfering with magistrates, could the right hon. Gentleman not circulate a general memorandum on the difficulties of this situation?
The hon. Member is asking that I shall issue a general circular advising that the law shall not be enforced. That is, constitutionally, a difficult thing for me to do.
Highway Slogans (Prosecutions)
31.
asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that a youth, 18 years of age, was fined at Old Street, on 8th April, for writing a loyal slogan in whitewash on the footway; and whether he will urge the police to greater vigilance against those who write disloyal slogans and damage with tar the portraits of leaders of the United Nations?
A by-law made by the Stepney Borough Council prohibits the defacing of the footway or roadway by advertisement or slogans. The offender in question was discovered painting a slogan in letters 12 inches high over about 14 feet of footway, and he admitted painting a similar slogan in an adjoining street. If some other offenders have not been caught this is not due to any lack of vigilance on the part of the police, who have instructions to use special endeavours: but unless offenders are caught in the act it is not easy in cases of this kind to obtain evidence which will enable a charge to be proved in a court of law.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give us any comparative figures of the two kinds of prosecution, to reassure those who feel that there are far more prosecutions of anti-Fascists than there are of Fascists?
I am afraid I cannot do so. It would really have no relevance to the issue. Whenever the police catch these people they prosecute them, and, if it is any comfort to my hon. Friend, I think that the Communists are at least as active in defacing the highways as the Fascists.
rose——
We really must get on with Questions, as there are many more on the Paper.
On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the remark that has been made by the Home Secretary, is it not desirable that this House should know that the Communists got their idea of chalking on walls from the Labour Party?
Motor Vehicles (Speed Limit Prosecutions, London)
34.
asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the two successful appeals against the Metropolitan police at the London Sessions, on 8th April, where the stop-watch method of trapping was criticised and where each applicant was granted £5 5s. and costs against the police; and whether the statement issued by Scotland Yard afterwards to the effect that the same methods of trapping would continue to be used in the Metropolitan area in spite of these decisions was issued under his instructions?
I have obtained reports of the two cases referred to, but they do not, as my hon. and gallant Friend suggests, involve criticism of the system of timing by stop watches. No change of system is, in fact, contemplated, but I am informed that no formal statement to the effect described in the second part of the Question was issued by Scotland Yard.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this was just an ordinary case of timing, that this timing is most unsatisfactory and incorrect, that it depends entirely on whether the first policeman pulls out his handkerchief at the correct moment, and that if he waits until a car is half-way down the track it doubles the speed?
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether in future, in order to avoid the waste of time of his Department and of this House, instructions will be given that Members of this House should not be prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit?
35.
asked the Home Secretary how many drivers, timed by plain-clothes officers with stop watches over straight stretches of 220 yards in the Metropolitan police area were proceeded against during the six months ended 31st December, 1942, for exceeding the statutory limit applicable to the type of vehicle timed?
Owing to the curtailment of statistical work since the war, this item is not now specially recorded and the information is accordingly not available.
Do I understand that these statistics are not available to Scotland Yard and that no statistics are kept as to particular prosecutions for the last six months of 1942?
My hon. and gallant Friend asked for particulars of prosecutions about a particular type of offence in particular circumstances, and I regret that information is not available.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when I ask a Question of him which is not satisfactory to Scotland Yard, the answer is always an evasive one?
That is a very unworthy suspicion.
36.
asked the Home Secretary the total number of police officers employed on duty in operating a single police trap of the Metropolitan police variety where two officers are dressed in plain clothes and use handkerchiefs and stop watches to time vehicles over a straight length of 220 yards; and whether he is satisfied that this is work of national importance in time of war?
The number of officers employed together in operating a single control is three. As regards the second part of the Question, I can only refer to the reply which I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend on 1st April.
The answer which the right hon. Gentleman gave me was that it saved lives on the road, and is he aware that these traps do not save a single life on the road at all?
Discharged Prisoners (Clothing Coupons)
33.
asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the difficulty that has arisen in the case of discharged prisoners in obtaining sufficient clothing coupons to-secure essential clothing and in purchasing necessary working clothes; and whether he will consider revising the present system under which coupons are taken from prisoners in consideration of the clothes which they have to wear in prison, but which are not their property?
I am making inquiries and will communicate with my hon. Friend.
Education
Aeronautical Instruction
37.
asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware of the Aviation Education Research Project now being sponsored by the Civil Aeronautics Administration in the United States of America to promote in teachers and pupils in the schools and colleges a fuller understanding of the term "air age" with all its implications; and what steps is he taking to secure for teachers and pupils in England and Wales similar opportunities?
Yes, Sir, I am aware of this interesting project, and am taking steps to examine it more fully, so as to be in a better position to answer the last part of my hon. and gallant Friend's Question.
Women Students (Calling-Up)
38.
asked the President of the Board of Education the conditions recently laid down for the conscription of young women students, and the probable effect of such upon the staffing of our schools in the immediate post-war years?
The conditions under which women students may proceed in the coming autumn to courses of training for teachers or youth leaders are set out in Circular 1620, a copy of which I am sending to the hon. Member. The evidence I have to date gives me ample reason to believe that, as the result of these conditions, there will be no fall in the number of entrants to training colleges next autumn as compared with last year.
Teachers (Post-War Supply)
39.
asked the President of the Board of Education what plans he has prepared, or has in course of preparation, for the expansion of our education system in immediate post-war years; and is he satisfied that the supply of fully trained teachers will be sufficient to meet the new demands?
As I have stated in reply to previous Questions, I will make an announcement on the Government's education proposals as soon as I am in a position to do so. I intend to take the steps necessary to ensure that there will be enough trained teachers to meet the needs.
In view of the unfortunate answer which the right hon. Gentleman gave to me on the previous Question, has he not now obviously abandoned all hope of any extension of our educational system at the end of this war because of the fact that there will be a very severe shortage of fully trained teachers?
Not at all. The statement recently made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service indicated the specific steps that the Government have taken to encourage entrants to the teaching profession and give them opportunities for training at the end of the war.
Are we to understand that the arrangement already deferred means that thousands of young teachers will be precluded from being trained until the end of the war, and, therefore, where is he going to get his supply of trained teachers?
If my hon. Friend will study Circular 1620—and I am ready to give him any expert assistance he may desire—he may find that we are maintaining the position remarkably well in spite of the exigencies of the call-up.
Public Health
Diphtheria (Immunisation)
40.
asked the Minister of Health whether he has any information about the operation of compulsory immunisation against diphtheria in Germany; and whether any conclusions can be drawn applicable to this country?
My information is that there is no general immunisation against diphtheria in Germany, but that it appears to be used locally in epidemics. The much increased prevalence of the disease in Germany, and the fact that there has been no serious increase in two enemy-occupied countries where immunisation is fairly complete, lend support to the Government's policy in advocating the immunisation of children in this country.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a considerable increase in an occupied country where immunisation is compulsory?
As my hon. Friend knows, we cannot discuss that in public.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when children have been immunised it has saved the local rates a tremendous amount of money because they have not had to go into the hospitals?
Pregnant Women (Factory Work)
41.
asked the Minister of Health whether he is yet in a position to announce a policy with regard to the employment of pregnant women in factories?
I am in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service on this question.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is of little use members of the Government, including the Prime Minister, deploring the decrease of the birth rate unless adequate provision is made for pregnant women in this country?
I would point out that my right hon. Friend and I are actively engaged on this subject now.
As this matter has been raised several times in the last few months, I beg to give notice that I shall raise it on the Adjournment.
Hospital Nurses And Domestic Staffs
11.
asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the great difficulty experienced by all classes of hospitals in keeping efficient from the dearth of nurses; and will he take steps to prevent further secessions from this service?
13.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider the advisability of taking steps to secure the return to the nursing service of trained nurses; to impose a freezing order on the domestic staffs of hospitals and to direct suitable persons to take up domestic work in isolation hospitals?
The measures necessary to mobilise the whole of our nursing resources, including the suggestion made by the hon. Member for East Wolverhampton (Mr. Mander) are at present being actively considered by the Departments concerned in consultation with the recently appointed National Advisory Council. The recent registration of nurses and midwives was a first step in ascertaining our available resources. The shortage of domestic staff in hospitals is part of the wider question of domestic help generally which I am at present considering with a view to seeing what further steps can be taken to assist the position.
Is the Minister aware of the difficulty of some nurses in getting away from hospitals to register, and can he do anything to meet that position?
If my hon. Friend will give me any information where that difficulty arose, I will take steps to see that facilities are provided.
12.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the pending closing of the colony for tubercular boys at Burrow Hill, Frimley, owing to lack of nursing and domestic staff; and what steps is he taking to deal with the situation, in view of the many other health establishments and hospitals that are similarly placed?
In reply to the first part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, on 13th April, to the hon. Member for Plaistow (Mr. Thorne), from which it will be seen that shortage of staff was not the only difficulty. As regards the second part of the Question, my Department has submitted certain domestic staff to this colony during the past few months and will continue to make every effort to meet its needs so long as the colony is kept in being. As my hon. Friend is aware, certain steps have already been taken to deal generally with the recruitment and distribution of nurses and midwives, and I have under active consideration the general problem of domestic help.
Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the Women's Services, such as the A.T.S. and the W.A.A.F., are not too avaricious at the expense of civilian life, and further has he any machinery to find out whether this vast and growing woman-power in the Services is being properly utilised?
That is another question, but as a constant watch is kept upon it, and having regard to the imperative need to get as many men as possible of grade A category who are in sedentary employment into the fighting line, I do not think there is any waste going on at all.
Housing
Subsidies
42.
asked the Minister of Health whether the housing schemes which he is encouraging local authorities to prepare will be subject to the payment of subsidies, annual grants or loans with favoured terms as to interest and repayment, which will allow of the rents charged being below an economic rental; and will the same terms and conditions be placed at the disposal of private enterprise?
As regards the first part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply, of which I am sending him a copy, which I gave on 17th March to my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone (Mr. Bossom). The point raised in the second part is one which I shall consider when I receive a report from the Sub-committee of my Central Housing Advisory Committee which has been specially appointed to advise on the part to be played by private enterprise in solving the post-war housing problem.
Will my right hon. Friend expedite that Report, as private enterprise at the present time feel that they are frozen up from taking part in the post-war housing problem?
The Committee is working very busily on the Report.
Flats (Prices)
43.
asked the Minister of Health whether he will take powers to publish a schedule defining the maximum prices payable in London for furnished and unfurnished flats according to accommodation?
The Rent Restrictions Acts apply to the great majority of dwelling houses in the country, including London, and fix for each dwelling house let unfurnished the maximum or standard rent which the landlord can recover. The landlord is required to state this rent on application by the tenant, and in cases of doubt it can be settled by the county court. Furnished lettings are not subject to standard rents, but the Acts contain provisions enabling action to be taken in respect of excessive rents being charged. I have no power to fix maximum prices, and in any case the preparation of a schedule such as that to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers would be impracticable in view of the specialised staff which it would be necessary to employ.
Is the Minister aware that complaints have been made publicly about the fantastic prices for furnished flats in London, by our American friends? In the interests of good will and understanding, will he take some steps, even by legislation, to put an end to this racket?
I have seen one or two complaints from various parts of London, but the issues are not so simple to deal with as has been stated by my hon. and gallant Friend.
Is the Minister aware that this is an appalling racket and is causing great hardship to people who, for business reasons, have to live in London and to civil servants who have had to come back to London?
Perhaps my right hon. Friend will await the return I am about to make available to Parliament from 1,500 local authorities, in which he will find that the evidence is not quite what has been stated.
Will the Minister get information from sample blocks of flats as to the rents charged before the war and the rents being charged now?
I shall be glad to look into any cases submitted to me.
Overcrowding
44.
asked the Minister of Health the percentage of overcrowding in England and Wales, county by county?
Owing to large-scale movements during the war, up-to-date figures are not available. The latest particulars are contained in the survey for the year 1936, and as a large tabular statement is involved I will, with permission, send my hon. Friend a copy.
Is the Minister aware that there is grave overcrowding in some parts of the country, which will be much worse before the end of the war and tragic when the war has finished?
In cases of overcrowding due to transferring war workers we have made special postal surveys.
War Pensions
45.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will move to set up a Select Committee of this House to consider war pensions?
I should not be justified in placing upon this House and on my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions the very heavy burden which would inevitably result from the appointment of a Select Committee unless the main principles of the war pensions system were the subject of serious controversy. Such questions as have been raised in Debate or otherwise do not affect essential principles but are rather concerned with matters which fall properly within the scope of existing machinery. I understand that my right hon. Friend has already brought a number of these questions before his Central Advisory Committee, on which the various parties in this House are well represented, and that others are being put down for discussion at future meetings. This procedure is likely to be much more expeditious than the deliberations of a Select Committee.
If we are to use this rather inadequate machinery, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he will try to improve it and make it more sensitive to the opinion of this House and public opinion? Is he aware, for example, that the Minister of Pensions himself takes the chair at this Committee and orders its agenda, and that among its members are his Parliamentary Private Secretary, the Chief Officer of the Ministry, his assistant and another officer? Further, is he aware that the Committee does not report to anyone but the Minister, so that it is a little hard to feel that it is a sensitive Committee?
My right hon. Friend will no doubt be desirous of making sure that the Committee is properly representative, but it is not the intention of the Government to transfer any executive power in this matter from the Government.
Has the Prime Minister considered the recent Debate that took place on pensions matters, when hardly any hon. Member of this House had anything but criticism for the operation of the Royal Warrant at the present moment? In view of those circumstances, will he do something in the direction suggested by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Lonsdale (Sir I. Fraser)?
During the whole of my service in this House I have never known any occasion when a Debate on pensions has not given universal dissatisfaction.
Is the Prime Minister aware that under existing conditions the Minister of Pensions refuses to accept responsibility for the deaths of men killed on war service? Does he not think that something ought to be done?
That Question should be put on the Order Paper.
Did I understand my right hon. Friend to say that if there is an expression of opinion in this House, as strong as was expressed on a previous occasion, of dissatisfaction with the administration of the Ministry of Pensions, he will, in accordance with the usual practice, consider what action he will take?
I think Parliament is possessed of all the necessary powers for controlling and influencing the Executive.
Northern Ireland (Man Power)
46.
asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that between 20,000 and 25,000 young men and young women of military age in Northern Ireland are unemployed and making no contribution to the war effort; and whether, in view of the serious shortage of man- and woman-power in Great Britain, immediate steps will be taken to accede to the often expressed desire of the Government of Northern Ireland for the extension of conscription to Northern Ireland?
I understand that, according to the latest information, the number of men and women of all ages registered as unemployed in Northern Ireland was 19,778. I have no new announcement to make about the second part of the Question.
Will my right hon. Friend give the reasons why the often expressed desire of the Ulster Government to have conscription in Ulster, the same as in Great Britain, cannot be acceded to, especially having regard to the great hardships being suffered in this country in order to provide the necessary men for the Armed Forces and factories?
When this matter was last raised, about 18 months or two years ago, I think, I came to the conclusion that it would be more trouble than it was worth, and I have not seen any reason up to the present moment for making a pronouncement on the subject.
Does not my right hon. Friend think that, in view of the critical position of man-power at the present moment, he ought to take a new decision, in spite of the threats of various kinds from the neutral State of Southern Ireland?
Certainly, it is a very unsatisfactory situation when large numbers of Americans are taken by compulsion from their homes and made to stand on guard while large numbers of the local inhabitants are under no such obligation.
Failing conscription, cannot the unemployed there be directed to war factories like anybody else?
Will my right hon. Friend say why we should be content to take distinguished generals like Montgomery, Alexander and Dill from Northern Ireland and neglect to avail ourselves of the services of thousands of ordinary men and women of fine quality in that Province who are now out of employment?
Service Personnel Overseas (Leave)
47.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider granting leave to those in all the Armed Forces who have seen active service abroad and have not had a leave for an extended period after the satisfactory clearing of the enemy forces in North Africa?
Everyone will sympathise with my hon. Friend's wish in this matter, but I doubt whether either the military operations or the shipping available will enable any early change to be made in the existing arrangements.
I can understand that, but will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Service Ministers to consider the special circumstances of cases where men went away two or three years ago without any leave?
I am sure those matters are being considered, but our means of transportation at the present time are limited and, of course, are subject to menace.
Cannot the Prime Minister give some message of hope to such men? It would have a great effect on them.
I should hesitate to say anything of an indiscriminate or unpremeditated nature.
Is the Prime Minister aware that some men have been abroad for seven years during which they have not been home?
It is the steady policy to try to bring these men home.
Do the men who have had a long period of foreign service abroad receive special consideration for local leave?
Lorient And St Nazaire (Bombing Results)
48.
asked the Prime Minister whether he has evidence to show that the recent intensive bombing of Lorient and St. Nazaire has resulted in the destruction or serious damage to the submarine shelters there?
Some damage has been done to the shelters, but serious damage was not expected. The object of the attacks was to cause dislocation to the repair, transport and power facilities afforded by these bases to U-boats. In this respect a considerable measure of success has been achieved.
Is the Prime Minister able to give any figures as to the weight of bombs dropped, and, if I put a Question down, will he give the number of bombers lost in these operations?
I am not able to give any figures without notice, and I cannot make any promise as to the answer which would be given if such a Question were put down, until I have had the opportunity of seeing the Question.
Can my right hon. Friend say whether any dive-bombers were used?
Political Truce (By-Elections)
50.
asked the Prime Minister whether, when he invited certain members of political parties to join his Government, any agreement was reached on the non-contesting of by-elections; and, in view of the fact that no candidate has any hope of being returned unless full support is given to the vigorous prosecution of the war, he will now advise that the truce at by-elections should be terminated?
The truce at by-elections was decided upon by the main political parties in the time of my predecessor. It followed therefore that when a national coalition was formed, in which all three parties officially participated with full representation in Ministerial office, the foundations and authority of the truce should be even more firmly established. The only advice I have to offer is that all those who are resolute to see the war through to a victorious conclusion should avail themselves of every occasion to mark their disapproval of trace-breakers.
Is the Prime Minister aware that, in spite of the ban and of all the endeavours of party leaders, including himself, to influence the position, controversy still prevails, in the constituencies, that a large number of constituencies have been contested at by-elections, and further, in view of the fact that the Labour Party is being hamstrung in the constituencies because of this truce, and that, in addition, in the United States Congressional elections took place without impairing national unity, will he not consider giving the electors the free choice of deciding for themselves the merits of the respective official candidates?
No, Sir. I conceive that a Government must stand together as long as it is constituted on a regular constitutional basis.
Would it not conduce to the observation of the truce among the Prime Minister's followers in the country if he could establish one for the House?
Is not the Prime Minister aware that, as a result of this ban on contesting by-elections, we are creating a large number of small political groups, and following in the wake of France, where that sort of thing led to Fascism?
I cannot think these small political groups will live very long after the great parties divide and set about each other. I think that will at any rate exercise a salutary effect in clearing no man's land.
Ministers' Public Speeches
51.
asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the services of the public relations officers in various Departments are used in the preparation of speeches made by Ministers in the country; and whether he is satisfied that public funds are properly expended for such purposes?
I have no official knowledge of the methods used by Ministers or indeed by Members in the preparation of their speeches, and I am certainly not going to inquire into the matter.
Has the Prime Minister observed the almost miraculous performances of some of the Ministers who now make speeches in the country on all manner of subjects which have nothing to do with their Departments and in which they have never shown any interest in this House?
Beveridge Report (Implementation)
52.
asked the Minister without Portfolio whether he anticipates being in a position to make some statement before the Easter Recess regarding the progress made in consideration of the Beveridge Report?
No, Sir. At this stage I can only say that work on the vast field covered by the proposals is actively proceeding.
Is the Minister aware that there is a tinge of doubt throughout the country as to whether any really energetic progress is being made, and cannot he give us some assurance that the matter is really being proceeded with? Is he further aware that the House does not know the name of the chairman of the Committee or about anything that is going on, and is completely in the dark?
I have given an assurance, which I repeat, that work on this document is actively going on.
Agriculture
Farm Cottages
53.
asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will take what steps are necessary to secure early possession of farm cottages, which at one time formed part of an agricultural holding and are now let to tenants who are in no way interested in agriculture, where such cottages are essential to the proper management of the farm?
The Rent Restrictions Acts make appropriate provision for farmers or their landlords to apply to the court for recovery of possession of such cottages, and I do not consider that additional facilities are required.
Growing Of Flowers (Instructions To Nurserymen)
54.
asked the Minister of Agriculture on what authority are representatives of his Ministry visiting nurserymen and giving notice that they will destroy in seven days all growing flower-plants; and whether he will see that nurserymen are given some definite information as to what they may grow before such drastic action is taken?
The Horticultural (Cropping) Amendment and Consolidation Order, 1942, imposes certain restrictions on the growing of flowers on agricultural land. Growers have been made fully aware of these restrictions and in case of doubt can obtain advice from their county war agricultural executive committees to whom I have issued instructions for their guidance in administering the Order. No action of the kind referred to in the Question has been taken by any committee so far as I am aware, but if the hon. and gallant Member will furnish me with particulars of any such cases I will have them investigated.
Is not the Minister aware that his county officials are giving conflicting instructions to these people, and will he consider the matter if I furnish him with a case in point? If it is found that flower plants can be grown in boxes between vegetable plants, such as tomatoes, has the Department any objection to this?
Post-War Production
55.
asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has received the Interim Report on Post-War Food Production Policy made by the National Farmers' Union; and whether he is now ready to discuss his post-war plans with the representatives of the industry?
The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. As regards the latter part, I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement made in the Debate on the Address on 1st December last by my right hon. Friend the Minister without Portfolio.
Does not my right hon. Friend think it is advisable to see the members of this body before the conference is held in America next month?
Will my right hon. Friend always bear in mind that he is trustee for the agricultural community?
Wheat Storage, Kent
56.
asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the fact that, in certain parts of Kent, wheat is tending to spoil in the stack as well as being overrun with vermin; whether the delay in threshing the grain is due to a lack of storage accommodation; and, if so, whether he will give the local war agricultural committees powers to requisition suitable buildings for this purpose?
My attention had not previously been called to any serious spoilage of wheat in the stack in Kent, whether from vermin or other causes. Steps have been taken to deal with temporary difficulties that have recently occurred in this area in the disposal of wheat through the increase in threshing outturn owing to the fine weather and the limited intake capacity of the mills. Threshing must, however, be spread over the season to accord with millers' requirements. Some wheat, therefore, has to be kept in stack, which is the best place for storage, until late in the season.
Business Of The House
Will the Leader of the House state the Business for the next series of Sittings?
The Business for the next series of Sittings will be as follows:
First Sitting Day—Report and Third Reading of the Catering Wages Bill. Second Sitting Day—Report stage of the Budget Resolutions; Consideration of the Lords Amendments to the Agriculture (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill; and Motion to approve the War Damage (Highways Scheme) Order. Third Sitting Day—The House will Adjourn for the Easter Recess. If there is time during the week, progress will be made with the Settled Land and Trustee Acts (Court's General Powers) Bill [Lords], Evidence and Powers of Attorney Bill [Lords], and Courts (Emergency Powers) Bill [Lords].