House Of Commons
Thursday, 16 March, 1944
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
British Museum
I have been asked by the Trustees of the British Museum to present a Petition which they have to submit to this House annually, explaining the financial position and praying for aid. The Petition recites the funded income of the Trustees and points out that the establishment is necessarily attended with an expense far beyond the annual production of the funds, and the Trust cannot with benefit to the public be carried out without the aid of Parliament. It concludes with this Prayer:
Petition referred to the Committee of Supply."Your petitioners therefore humbly pray your Honourable House to grant them such further support towards enabling them to carry on the execution of the Trust reposed in them by Parliament for the general benefit of learning and useful knowledge as to your House shall seem meet."—[King's Recommendation signified.]
Oral Answers To Questions
National War Effort
Women, Deferments (Wigan District)
2.
asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the local complaints and general dissatisfaction in Wigan district concerning large numbers of single and married young women who, by reason of obtaining various types of certificates, are deferred off work for long periods or not directed to useful employment; and if he will reexamine all local records and causes and wherever circumstances or evidence warrants action take it without delay.
No, Sir. I have no knowledge of any complaints or general dissatisfaction on this subject in Wigan. If my hon. Friend has any specific cases in mind and will let me know, I will have inquiries made.
While thanking my right hon. Friend for his assurance, may I ask him whether he is not aware already of the loose method of issuing medical certificates, and the weaknesses in the regulations, which are general and are well-known throughout the country? Cannot he take more drastic action to tighten up existing procedure?
I really cannot lay down any regulations as to what a doctor should say the hon. Member is suffering from.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that, as Member for Wigan, I have had no complaints whatever; that both the Ministry of Labour officials and the Mayor of Wigan have denied these charges, and that they resent interference by a Member from another constituency?
Woman-Power
3.
asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that, in many cases, the heavy call-up of women for various national services and work of national importance has had the effect of diminishing the efficiency of the home, with a resulting decline in the war service efficiency of its members; and if he will review the position, and take further steps to prevent the wastage of woman-power in some Government Departments, services and factories engaged on war work.
The necessity of full mobilisation of woman-power has undoubtedly placed on the housewife a heavy task, and I am glad of this opportunity to give public recognition to the value of their contribution to the war effort. In calling up women for war work, individual consideration is given in every case to the domestic responsibilities of the woman concerned according to war-time standards, and cases of doubt are referred to independent women's panels. The use of woman-power now employed in Government Departments and war factories is, primarily, a matter for the Government Department concerned.
If I give the right hon. Gentleman information concerning the effect of this call-up on certain persons, including the families of soldiers, will he give the matter further consideration?
Certainly, Sir.
14.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange to publish a return on the extension in the employment of women in industry during the war, on the lines of the return published on page 216 of the Labour Gazette of June, 1918, which recorded an increase of 44 per cent. between July, 1914, and January, 1918.
It is not in the public interest that a return such as that referred to should be published at present.
Why is it not in the public interest to do in this war something which was repeatedly done in the last war without any damage to the public interest? Why this excessive desire for secrecy?
I am glad to say that a lot of things which were done in the last war are not being done in this war.
Was not the last war won sooner than this war is being won?
Coalmining (Compulsory Recruitment)
6.
asked the Minister of Labour if he has any statement to make with regard to the prosecution of Bernard Bradley, of Leeds, a young man of 18 years of age, who has been sentenced to three months' imprisonment for refusing to work in the coalmines.
I understand that in this case an appeal is pending, and I cannot, therefore, make any statement.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this young man was a Home Guard, who volunteered for anti-aircraft duties, which any soldier would say was equivalent to regular service? Is it right that with these qualifications, he should be directed into the mines?
I am afraid I cannot enter into discussion upon a case when it is going before the court.
7.
asked the Minister of Labour whether a man who goes through the ballot and is not drawn for coalmining is affected by subsequent ballots.
No, Sir. Such a man does not have to go through any further ballot.
Unemployment, Spennymoor
9.
asked the Minister of Labour the number of unemployed men who were signing on at the various employment exchanges in the Spennymoor Division, County Durham, for the week ended 4th December, 1943; how many are now signing on for week ending 11th March, 1944; and whether he can hold out any prospect of those still unemployed obtaining a job.
I am obtaining such information as is available, and will write to my hon. Friend.
Is the Minister aware that I am indeed grateful for what lie and his Department have done for the unemployed men in my division but is he also aware that men are still idle, who have worked for two years out of doors, in all kinds of weather, who cannot obtain a job at the present time, and who are certified as medically unfit for work inside a factory? Can he not do something to remove the depression of these men?
I am having inquiries made, and will try to deal with the matter.
Young Workers (Holidays)
12.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he will take steps to encourage employers and trade unions to release young workers for an additional week's holiday so that they can attend pre-service, forestry and harvesting camps.
As I informed my hon. Friend, in reply to his similar Question on 1st April, 1943, I am sympathetic with the object he has in mind, and I have brought the idea to the notice of those concerned in industry. I hope that employers will give every possible encouragement to their young employees to take advantage of these opportunities.
In view of the fact that, through the intervention of my right hon. Friend, over 100 firms and some 50,000 boys took advantage of this scheme last year, will he make the decision known early, so that some staggering may take place?
I have just made it known.
Military Service
Medical Grading (Errors)
4.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that 2,443 other ranks of the Army were discharged during 1943 as unfit for service within less than six months after having been medically graded A1 by his medical officers before call-up; and what steps he is taking to prevent this recurring.
From an analysis which has been made of the cases to which my hon. Friend refers, it is estimated that less than a third could be regarded as avoidable errors in grading. This is so small a proportion of the total medically examined and posted to the Army, that I do not think it can in practice be avoided. I may add that cases which are considered to be definite errors in grading, are reported by the Service authorities to my Department, and where my medical advisers agree that the error may have been avoidable, the case is brought specially to the attention of the chairman of the medical board concerned.
Does my right hon. Friend know that after his Department has examined these men for call-up for the Service another examination by the military authorities takes place? Is it not possible to avoid some of this by cooperation between his own Department's doctors and the military doctors, before the man is pulled away from his home, and great hardship caused?
I think I should create a very great injustice if I did that. The time of the medical examination by my Department may be a considerable time before the actual call-up. Therefore, I have asked my right hon. Friend to be very careful when these men arrive in the Army. One may be well to-day and ill to-morrow.
If that is the case, will my right hon. Friend take steps to see that before the man is called up for the Army, another medical examination shall take place?
No, Sir, I really could not do that. The whole deferment machinery would break down if I tried it. The best evidence of the care that is taken is the figure I have given.
Will the right hon. Gentleman explain how a man who was passed by his own Department's doctors as unfit, through heart trouble, for work as a docker, could subsequently be passed as A1 for service in the Army?
I cannot answer that question.
Direction
10.
asked the Minister of Labour if he will give his reasons for directing to military service No. 14713364 Private W. Hughes, P.T.C., Ballykinlar, County Down, aged 39, and formerly of 57, Allington Street, Liverpool, 17, who was transport manager in a food distributing firm, whose wife was killed by enemy action in 1941 and whose seven children, aged seven to 15 years, have been left in the care of their grandmother aged 72; and if he will consult with the Secretary of State for War with a view to the early return of this man to his former civilian employment in which he can care for his children.
I am having inquiries made in this case, and will write to my hon. Friend.
Industrial Wages
5.
asked the Minister of Labour what applications for increases of wages have been submitted by workers in the major industries of the country since the date of the Porter Award on wages in the coal industry; and what are the particulars of such applications.
Applications for increases of wages made on behalf of workers are not notified to my Department, unless there is a failure to reach a settlement. I am not aware of any such applications having been influenced by the Award referred to by my hon. Friend.
In cases where a settlement is not reached and an award has to be made and it is notified to him that there is a blunder in the award, which makes it unworkable, will either my right hon. Friend or some Member of the Cabinet examine such an award, before the industry concerned is thrown into confusion by its attempted enforcement?
I do not accept what my hon. Friend says. I do not know a single award that has been made which has caused any upset at all. [HON. MEMBERS "Oh‡") What I do know is that there was an upset, which arose before people had studied an award.
Does my right hon. Friend seriously suggest that there has been no upset as a result of the Porter Award?
I assert, with conviction, that the Porter Award did not cause the upset. The Porter Award has not been carefully examined or applied.
By whom was it not applied?
Post-War Working Hours
8.
asked the Minister of Labour whether there have been any conversations between the various Governments about an international shorter working day to come into operation after the war.
No, Sir.
Industrial And Staff Canteens (Wages Board)
11.
asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the Wages Board recommendation from the Catering Wages Commission; and whether he has come to any decision on it.
Yes, Sir. I have received from the Catering Wages Commission a recommendation for a Wages Board for industrial and staff canteens, and I have made an Order establishing a Wages Board. Copies of a Command Paper embodying the report and recommendation, together with copies of the Order, will be available to Members at the Vote Office after Questions.
Factories (Accidents)
13.
asked the Minister of Labour the number of accidents in the factories of this country, fatal and nonfatal, for each year 1939 to 1943, inclusive.
As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, if I may, arrange for its circulation in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
Following is the reply:
Accidents Reported under the Factories Act.
| ||||
| Year. | Number of Fatal Accidents. | Number of Non-fatal Accidents. | ||
| 1939 | … | … | 1,104 | 192,371 |
| 1940 | … | … | 1,372 | 230,607 |
| 1941 | … | … | 1,646 | 269,652 |
| 1942 | … | … | 1,363 | 313,267 |
| 1943 | … | … | 1,205 | 309,937 |
* The figures for 1943 are provisional. | ||||
Housing (Air-Raid Victims)
16.
asked the Minister of Health the total number of houses reserved by local authorities for those rendered homeless by enemy action; if the need for keeping them empty is reviewed from time to time and balanced against the general shortage of accommodation in districts relatively immune from bombing; and if he will consider allowing each of the larger of such houses to be occupied rent-free by a Service man's wife or other dependant who is willing to act as caretaker.
The number of houses at present reserved unoccupied for this purpose is approximately 4,000. The answer to the second part of the Question is, "Yes, Sir." Some of the larger vacant houses are already occupied by caretakers chosen from the families of Service men, and their claims will, of course, be borne in mind in any case where it is found necessary to instal a caretaker.
Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that some local authorities are not aware of the fact contained in the last part of his answer? Will he have it generally made known to them?
I expect that the usual publicity will arise from this answer.
Institution Inmates (Pocket Money)
17.
asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Essex County Council Public Assistance Com- mittee have been compelled to cease paying amounts of 1s. to 1s. 6d. per week to certain elderly patients in Public Assistance Committee's hospitals; that this has created indignation among members of the Committee and the public; and whether, in view of the ill-effect of the former practice being declared illegal, he will now take steps to enable public bodies to make such payments of small amounts.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given on 7th March to my hon. Friend the Member for Plaistow (Mr. Thorne) and to previous replies on this subject.
Is it any use to keep on referring back to what was said before? Is there not an urgent need to tackle this question, in view of the experience of the public assistance committees that the payment of these small amounts is distinctly beneficial?
No, I cannot agree. The law is quite recent, dating only from 1938, and I do not think that the introduction of legislation at this time would be desirable.
Am I to understand that the Minister contemplates no action?
I said nothing of the kind. I said that all these matters were under discussion.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.
29.
asked the Minister of Health, if he will introduce legislation to permit the established practice of paying pocket money in suitable instances to inmates of public institutions below the age of 65 to continue, which would be generally welcomed.
No, Sir. I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which was given to him on 2nd December, and to other replies on this subject.
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that his attitude on this matter is most disappointing, and will he not, at least, take steps to find out whether legislation of this kind would be non-controversial?
I have already dealt with that very point, in reply to an earlier Question. It cannot be unsatisfactory that one of my officers should have pointed out what is the law as enacted by Parliament only five years ago.
My right hon. and learned Friend has not answered my question whether he will take steps to find out whether such legislation would be non-controversial.
Whether it would be non-controversial or not, I think it would be most unsatisfactory to deal with it in isolation from the whole issue of social insurance questions now under consideration.
Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Motion for Adjournment.
On a point of Order. I have already given notice that I intend to raise a certain matter on the Adjournment. The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Mr. Lipson), apparently, has now given notice that he will raise a similar matter.
The point on which I have given notice is the refusal to introduce legislation.
Public Health
Mental Deficiency Act (Detentions)
18.
asked the Minister of Health what steps are taken to ensure that young people detained under the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913, are not detained for their lifetime.
The law requires these cases to be brought under review from time to time, in order to ensure that they are not detained unnecessarily. I am sending my hon. Friend a memorandum by the Board of Control, setting out in detail the procedure by which this review is effected.
I addressed this Question to the Home Secretary, because he is the person who commits people to these colonies. May I be told whether a person who has been detained, say, for a year before the next review takes place, and who still does not know how many pennies there are in a half-crown—which is one of the questions put to these people—is taught such things?
The actual education of these people hardly arises on this Question. If the hon. Member will look at the Memorandum which I am sending him and then ask any further questions, I shall be glad to answer them.
In view of the fact that I have a large number of these cases, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Motion for Adjournment. I hope that not only the right hon. and learned Gentleman but also the Home Secretary will be present on that occasion.
Tuberculosis (Allowances)
28.
asked the Minister of Health whether he will take steps to secure that the new allowances granted on certain conditions to sufferers from tuberculosis are applied to all tuberculosis subjects who are unable to work.
I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member of East Birkenhead (Mr. Graham White) on 2nd March.
Is the Minister aware that that reply was quite unsatisfactory, and that the reference to that unsatisfactory reply is equally unsatisfactory?
No indication was given to me that that reply was unsatisfactory. It did not give rise to a supplementary, and no further Question was put down.
Are we to understand that only if we put a supplementary is a reply considered to be unsatisfactory? I hope, Mr. Speaker, that you will take note of that.
The longer it goes on, the more unsatisfactory it becomes.
Local Authorities
County Councils (Travelling Expenses)
22.
asked the Minister of Health whether he will take steps to amend the law relating to the payment of travelling expenses of members of county councils, their committees and sub-committees, which are at present non-recoverable, in view of the fact that these committees are to-day often poorly attended because many of their members, travelling from a distance, cannot afford the cost of transport.
County councils have wide powers to pay the necessary travelling expenses of members of the councils and of committees and sub-committees. I do not contemplate the extension of their powers in this respect.
Powers
23.
asked the Minister of Health whether it is proposed eventually to restore, at the earliest possible moment, the powers of which during the war local authorities have been deprived.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the replies given by my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister to my hon. Friend the Member for Penryn and Falmouth (Mr. Petherick) on 29th July and 5th August last, of which I am sending him copies.
Does my right hon. and learned Friend not consider that the time has come when some of these powers which have been usurped might be restored?
The whole matter was dealt with comprehensively by the replies of the Deputy Prime Minister, in which he stressed the fact that the powers which have been taken away are extremely few in number.
Evacuated Children (Billeting Allowance)
27.
asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to make a statement regarding the amount of billeting allowance paid to householders in respect of unaccompanied schoolchildren.
I regret that I can at present add nothing to my reply to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Darwen (Captain Prescott) on 9th March, a copy of which I am sending to my hon. Friend.
Does my right hon. and learned Friend appreciate that this form of billeting allowance compares very unfavourably with any other form of billeting allowance, and that it imposes the maximum burden on the householder?
As I said on 9th March, we are very grateful to these people who are taking care of the women, children and others; and, as I said only a week ago, this matter is at present under consideration.
What is delaying the Government's decision on this matter, which has been before them quite a long time? Will my right hon. and learned Friend answer?
In any matter of this kind a number of factors have to be considered. This matter is under active consideration, and I hope to be able to make a statement shortly.
Town And Country Planning (Land Acquisition)
30.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he is aware that local authorities are anxiously awaiting further legislation about land to facilitate their plans; and whether such legislation will be introduced this Session.
31.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether his attention has been called to the reiterated appeal of the lord mayors and mayors of certain bombed cities for legislation to enable them to prepare the necessary plans for reconstruction; and whether he proposes to take any action in the matter.
34.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning what action he proposes to take in response to the appeal by the lord mayors of Plymouth, Portsmouth, Norwich, Hull, Sheffield, Bristol, the mayors of Exeter, Swansea, Birkenhead, Salford, Wallasey, Bootle and Coventry, to the Government to introduce forthwith the long-promised legislation to enable preparations to be made for demobilisation by planning towns and purchasing land.
I have seen the appeal referred to and can assure hon. Members that a Bill will be introduced during the present Session, as promised in the King's Speech.
Will there be a statement similar to that which the Minister of Health made the other day, so that we can have an indication of what is to be in the Bill?
I think hon. Members will have the Bill itself first.
The Minister says the Bill will be introduced in the present Session. Will it be introduced before the legislation on housing promised by the Minister of Health is introduced?
I should like notice of that question. The Bill will be introduced in time, I hope, for it to be passed, in order to secure the purposes for which it is designed.
Is it not necessary, in view of what transpired during the Debate yesterday, and in view of the general dissatisfaction of the House with the housing proposals of the Government, that the Minister's Bill should be introduced before the legislation on housing promised by the Minister of Health?
I will consider that question and see if I can do anything to meet the point.
In view of the delay in dealing with this matter, can the Minister say whether he is dealing with it on the basis that we have all eternity before us?
No, Sir.
Will the Minister say when it is proposed to appoint the Commission that was contemplated by the Act under which his office was created?
The Commission's powers will have to be defined in the legislation before it can be appointed.
Surely, this is a matter in which the Leader of the House can now advise the House whether actual co-operation is taking place between the various Departments concerned in housing?
I can myself assure the hon. Member that co-operation of that kind is taking place.
32.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether His Majesty's Government have now reached any conclusions on the Reports of the Barlow, Scottor Uthwatt Committees; and what action is proposed to be taken to implement them.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Skipton (Mr. H. Lawson) on 17th February, 1944, of which I am sending him a copy and to which I have at present nothing to add.
Can the Minister tell us why it has taken, not only months, but years, for the Government to reach any conclusions on these Reports?
I have been in office during only a comparatively recent period, but I can assure the hon. Member that the issues involved are of extreme importance and great complexity, and it is a matter that affects every home in the country and ought to be well considered.
33.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he will give an assurance that it is still the policy of His Majesty's Government that payment of compensation in respect of land purchased by public authorities shall be made on the basis of the values which obtained in 1939.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the latter part of the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for South Croydon (Sir H. Williams) on 28th October, 1943, of which I am sending him a copy and to which at present I have nothing to add.
Is the Minister aware that speculative purchases of land are continuing up and down the country; and does he not think it would be rather better to apply the ceiling of 1939, without unfairly affecting a number of people?
May I ask the Minister whether, if I put a suitable Question down, he will explain what the 1939 ceiling is, as there was no valuation then, and it cannot be applied?
I shall be very interested to see my hon. Friend's essay at drafting a Question which would elicit that information.
35.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether any decision has been arrived at by the Government with regard to the proposals of the Uthwatt Report for vesting development rights in unbuilt-up land in the State.
No, Sir; but the Government hope to make a statement at an early date.
Can the Minister say whether it is the case, as stated in the Press, that the Uthwatt recommendation on this point has been turned down by the Government, together with the Minister's own proposals?
I can assure the hon. Member that my proposals have not been turned down. They are being considered.
Have not the Uthwatt proposals been turned down?
A large number of the Uthwatt proposals have already been accepted.
On a point of Order. I asked the Minister about a specific point. I did not want a reply of a general nature.
On this matter, it is impossible to give a categorical reply. There are features in the Uthwatt proposals which may be embodied in the ultimate proposals put before the House. It is not one single set of proposals, but a vast, interlocking system.
Armed Forces And Civilians (Pensions And Grants)
36.
asked the Minister of Pensions the total number of pension applications refused by his Department during the past 12 months on the grounds that the person killed was not previously contributing to the upkeep of the household.
I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to applications by the parents or other relatives of deceased members of the Armed Forces. I regret that the information asked for is not available and could not be obtained without a disproportionate expenditure of time and labour. I would, however, point out that, while in the case of other relatives previous dependence on the member is a condition of an award, pension is awarded to parents if they are in need and there is a reasonable prospect that the member would, had he survived, have contributed to their support.
May I ask the Minister if he is aware that the term "contributing to the upkeep of the household" is a very elastic term, and, in view of the fact that casualties will increase as the war intensifies, will he review the whole question, as many of these young boys were apprentices, on very low wages, to whom the parents were, however, looking for some increased remuneration in the future?
I can assure the hon. Member that we will take into account what the boy would have been earning if he had survived.
Is it not possible for the Minister to reconsider this whole problem? Is he aware that, in the last war, parents received a pension as a solace for the taking of their sons; and is he also aware that there are mothers to-day receiving these pensions in respect of sons lost in the last war?
I am well aware that the rule in the last war was this—that, if a Serviceman was under 26 years of age and had no other dependants of any kind, then a pension of 5s. per week could be awarded to the parents. I am well aware that some people are drawing it to-day and also are including it in their Income Tax returns.
Does the Minister not agree, after all the experience he has had, that this is one of the questions on which the practice of the last war was preferable and very much fairer than the practice of this one?
No, Sir, I am not aware of that. Our present practice is by far the best, and it was adopted in accordance with a recommendation made by a Committee of this House, which went into this matter at great length, and I think it is far better to give most where most is needed than to hand out 5s. a week to a very limited class who do not need it.
Does "pecuniary need" disallow an assumed improvement in the standard in the home, where a young boy or girl gets into the earning capacity range of an adult?
I take into account all these points.
37.
asked the Minister of Pensions the number of applications for pensions he has received from the parents of single men and women who have lost their lives in the war since 3rd September, 1939, to 31st December, 1943, stating each sex separately; the number of applications refused on the grounds that they failed to satisfy his Department that they were in pecuniary need; and the number and the amounts of pensions granted.
Approximately 47,000 parents' applications in respect of men, and 900 in respect of women, members were decided during the period in question. Pensions ranging from 5s. a week to £120 a year were awarded in over 19,000 cases of men and in some 350 cases of women members. In some 23,000 cases of men and 250 cases of women entitlement was accepted but the requirement of pecuniary need was hot satisfied. In these cases, the applicants have been informed that they may renew their applications in the event of a change in their financial circumstances, but in the great majority the father is at present in full employment and earning normal wages.
Will the Minister be good enough to define what his Department means by "pecuniary need"?
It is a very broad definition, as recommended by the Committee which I mentioned earlier. We take into account the question of whether the head of the household is in full employment and earning normal wages. We take all this into account and deal with it very generously.
Is the Minister aware that some parents are already selling their furniture to maintain their existence?
No, Sir, and if the hon. Member will bring cases of that kind to my notice I will inquire into them at once.
Is the Minister aware that I have received numerous complaints about the insulting nature of the reply he gave me on this subject last week—insulting, not to me, but to the parents of men killed in action—and will he withdraw that answer?
No, Sir, I do not regard that as insulting at all; it was a statement of fact.
39.
asked the Minister of Pensions if he will indicate the inquiries made and the examination applied by way of means test, to arrive at a decision whether a pension be awarded to the parent or parents of a deceased Service man; and on what basis of income or earnings it is made.
I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the full reply I gave to a similar question by the hon. Member for Deritend (Sir Smedley Crooke) on 28th October last; of which I am sending him a copy.
In view of the great dissatisfaction that exists against this manifest bad working, would my right hon. Friend consider taking powers to deal with these cases and give the parents of all Service men a flat-rate pension automatically?
If my hon. and gallant Friend will read the very long reply which was given to the hon. Member for Deritend he will see that his point is fully met.
40.
asked the Minister of Pensions what complaints he has received from the British Legion about the refusal of pensions to men who have had amputations during or as a result of the war; that some applications submitted in July last have not yet been decided; how many general re-applications for pensions have been made; how many granted and how many are still undecided; and will he taken steps to hasten his procedure.
I have not received any general representations from the British Legion of the nature referred to. If the hon. Member has any individual cases in mind and will give me particulars I will look into them. With regard to the second part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Lonsdale (Sir I. Fraser) on 24th February last. So far as the last part of the question is concerned, I can assure my hon. Friend that everything possible is done to obviate any avoidable delay in the settlement of these cases.
41.
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will consider instituting a fund from which pensions can be paid in cases of proven necessity to the dependants of members of the Armed Forces killed while on active service through their own negligence or misconduct.
I do not feel justified in adopting my hon. Friend's suggestion. As he is no doubt aware I have power, in those cases where payment at the full rate would not be justified, to make a modified award. It is only in exceptional cases that I am constrained totally to withhold the grant of a pension.
In view of the limitations imposed by question and answer, I beg to give notice that I shall take the earliest opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
Discharged Servicemen (Mental Cases)
38.
asked the Minister of Pensions if he has any further statement to make regarding the discharge of mental cases from the Forces, since meeting a deputation on the matter on 9th March.
I will communicate with my hon. Friend as soon as I have completed the inquiries which I undertook to make of the other Departments concerned in this question.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in his consideration of this matter, he will have before him the scheme which was applied in the last war in these cases and give some consideration to it?
I am very sorry indeed that my hon. Friend did not avail himself of the offer I made to him to come to my room, with other hon. Members, to discuss the whole matter. If he had, he would not have put that question to me now.
Is the Minister aware that there is a great deal of feeling about this question on the part of local authorities, who feel, quite rightly, that this should be a national charge and not a charge on the rates?
That may be so, but it is not a matter with which I can deal.
India
Assam Frontier (Bengali And Punjabi Units)
42.
asked the Secretary of State for India how many natives of Bengal and how many of the Punjab are now serving on the Assam frontier.
I am afraid that it would not be in the public interest to publish the figures.
Can my right hon. Friend state whether there are any Bengali regiments serving on the Assam frontier?
I have not the actual figures, but it would not be in the public interest to give the distribution of troops on the Assam frontier.
Civil Servants' Wives (Travel Facilities)
43.
asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the ban having been lifted for wives going to Australia, the Indian Committee appointed early in the year have reached any decision with regard to the 200 wives of civil servants who are desirous of rejoining their husbands in India, as many have not seen them for over four years.
The Committee in question announced that no recommendations would be made before 1st March in order to ensure an equal chance of consideration for all applicants. No recommendations have yet been received. As I informed my hon. and gallant Friend on 2nd December last, the number of berths likely to be available is very small indeed and there is, I fear, little prospect at present of passages to India for women and children except in cases of special hardship.
Political And Industrial Situation
44.
asked the Secretary of State for India if he has considered the presidential address given to the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce, a copy of which has been sent to him, which emphasised that the time had come for the release of political leaders in detention, the need of greater industrial development in India and a guarantee that the operation of the United Kingdom Commercial Corporation will end with the armistice; and what steps he has taken to meet this demand.
I have so far only seen a Press report of the address in question. As regards the points to which the question refers, I would refer the hon. Member to the various official statements that are on public record.
Will the right hon. Gentleman accept an assurance that a copy has been sent to him, and is he aware that in any case there is a report in the bulletin issued by his Department, and, in the circumstances, does he not think that the contents of this address deserve particular attention?
I certainly read it with interest.
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that something should be done on the lines suggested?
I am afraid that in answer to a question I could not go into the whole contents of a speech of which I have only read a telegraphed Press report.
Government Departments
Accommodation, London
45.
asked the Prime Minister if he will instruct all Government Departments to consider taking over large houses in the West End now standing empty, thereby releasing hotel accommodation required for members of the Forces on leave or passing through London.
Yes, Sir. We are pursuing this policy.
Ministry Of Health
46.
asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the exceptional number of matters which come under the purview of the Ministry of Health, he will consider taking appropriate steps to reduce the field of its activities with a view to enabling the Department to deal with the matters of prior importance.
The proposals which the Government will shortly be making in regard to social insurance will involve reconsideration of the responsibilities of several Departments, including the Ministry of Health, but apart from this question and the possibility of minor adjustments in departmental boundaries, I am satisfied that the functions of the Ministry of Health cover a well defined and manageable field of action.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that I welcome the first part of his statement; and is he further aware that there is a considerable volume of overlapping at the present time and that many departmental officials are not quite clear where their duties begin and end, and it is very difficult for them?
This is a time when departmental boundaries are a little fluid, because of the many extraordinary problems with which we are endeavouring to grapple, but I have no doubt that the frontiers will be precisely delimited.
Will the right hon. Gentleman be careful not to increase the number of Ministries to such an extent that the whole of the Members of the House of Commons will be in official positions?
I have several times deprecated the idea that difficult problems can be solved by making new Ministers. I gladly give the assurance asked for by the hon. Member that no attempt will be made to include all the House of Commons in the Ministry.
Does the Prime Minister realise that that assurance will cause profound disappointment?
British Tanks
47.
asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the unsatisfactory reports which he has received both as to the inadequacy of British tanks in the field and the waste in production in this country, he will tell the House what action he proposes to take in default of holding an inquiry.
I repudiate the allegations of the hon. Member. The next time that the British Armies take the field, in country suitable for the use of armour, they will be found to be equipped in a manner at least equal to the forces of any other country in the world.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the information on which I based the first part of my Question came from fighting officers in North Africa and the Bridgehead, and will he tell the House whether he has had a report from the Select Committee on the latter part of the Question?
I have received an advance copy of the Report of the Select Committee and its various criticisms will be carefully considered. I am not interested to know from what sources the hon. Gentleman receives his information. I am sure it would have been very gratifying to him if the information were of an adverse character.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman know that there is a feeling of disquiet in certain quarters including Select Committee quarters; and would it be possible to give the House an opportunity of conveying some information to the right hon. Gentleman by discussing this matter?
Yes, Sir, we were to have had a Debate on this subject in Secret Session, on the Motion to move Mr. Speaker out of the Chair on the Army Estimates, but it was found that that would not be entirely in accordance with the Rules of Order. An opportunity will be found however in a very short time —during the next series of Sittings—for a Debate in Secret Session, when anything can be said. And I should like to say that it is not part of my submission, that no mistakes are ever made by this Government.
Arising out of the right hon. Gentleman's second reply, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, disregarding his facetious remark to me, thousands of soldiers have lost their lives as a result of the inaction of the Government in this matter?
Atlantic Charter
48.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will arrange for a Debate on the Motion standing in the name of the hon. Member for Westhough-ton relative to the Atlantic Charter, supported by a considerable number of right hon. and hon. Members.
[ That this House, bearing in mind the specific promises contained in the Atlantic Charter regrets recent statements made on behalf of His Majesty's Government conveying the impression that its provisions do not as a matter of right apply to Germany or any other enemy country, believes that these statements have brought the Charter into disrepute, depressed the spirit of considerable sections of the allied population, stiffened the support of the peoples of enemy countries behind their leaders, are calculated thereby to prolong the war, make the prospects of permanent peace difficult, if not impossible, and therefore urges His Majesty's Government to make it clear that the principles of the Charter are of world-wide application.]
Although this Motion is not sponsored by any organised political Party, it is couched in hostile terms, is supported by 70 Members and wears the aspect of a Vote of Censure. If this interpretation is correct, His Majesty's Government would be willing to afford an opportunity for Debate at a convenient date in the near future. Whether it is correct or not can be ascertained through the usual channels.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is not aware that there is considerable disquiet, both in this country and America, as the result of the recent Government statements, made by himself and the Foreign Secretary, abandoning a number of the principles of the Atlantic Charter, and does he not think that the honour of our country is involved in this business?
That would be a very proper question to urge in the Debate, should one be demanded on a Vote of Censure.
Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that an Amendment to this Motion has been put down by the hon. Member for East Wolverhampton?
[ In line 2, leave out from "Charter," to end of Motion, and insert "is of opinion that these should be applied in practice universally so far as is consistent with the supreme object of making German aggression impossible in future, including in that connection such proposals as the transfer of East Prussia to Poland on security grounds."]
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the desire for a Debate is not confined only to the hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies), and those who think as he does, but is also shared by those who maintain that the Atlantic Charter, where it is not platitudinous, contains conditions highly dangerous to the British and Allied cause?
It is late in the day to begin these sweeping condemnations of the Atlantic Charter, which, at the time, received a very cordial welcome and was not protested against by the hon. Gentleman—
I did protest.
I can only say that, if those who put their names to this Motion desire it to be considered as a Vote of Censure, having regard to its terms and having regard to the number of Members concerned, His Majesty's Government would feel it their duty to find the time, on the ground that it is a Vote of Censure. There being no official Party opposing the Government, consequently a sufficient number of private Members, banding themselves together, ought, in my opinion, to have an opportunity of putting their challenge to the test. If, however, it is not a Vote of Censure, then we could not give time, because the Session is already crowded and it would not be convenient, from the point of view of public Business, just to take an ordinary Motion and give it a special part of Parliamentary time. I think it is perfectly plain that the answer I have given is in full harmony with the traditions of the House.
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to take it that a considerable number of hon. Members on these benches are hostile to that Motion?
Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider that sufficient ambiguity has been introduced into the discussions on the Atlantic Charter by recent events and recent speeches to deserve a Debate by way of clarification of the matter, quite apart from one by way of censure?
Opportunities for Debates of clarification occur frequently in the regular annual routine of Parliamentary Business, and I think it quite natural that some opportunity should be taken on one of those occasions. But here is a particular Motion condemning the Government in scarifying terms. I want to know if that is to be treated as a Vote of Censure or not. If it is to be treated as a Vote of Censure, His Majesty's Government are entirely at the service of those hon. Members who put it down.
Is it not the case that some of those hon. Members who put their names among the first six are opposed, and have been wholly opposed, to the war from the beginning?
Agriculture
Farm Buildings
50.
asked the Minister of Agriculture when the Report of the Committee on Farm Buildings will be published.
I expect to receive the report of the Committee on Farm Buildings during the next two months. The question of publication will be considered when the Report has been received.
While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that a high proportion of the farm buildings in this country do not make for efficient farming, and could he bear that in mind in the course of his decisions on the four-year plan?
It is because of that I have set up my Committee.
Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that we cannot get efficiency without proper buildings?
Farm Tenancy, Breconshire
53.
asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware that Ty Gwyn Farm, Gilwern, near Abergavenny; was sold by auction for £6,500 and was subsequently sold for £8,000 to a contractor when he gave his consent to a notice to quit to the tenant who had farmed the land for the whole of his lifetime and without knowing what type of tenant was to take his place and what steps he is taking to prevent such speculative transactions in land.
asked the Minister of Agriculture (1) if his attention has been drawn to the fact that Mr. Llewellyn, Ty Gwyn Farm, Gilwern, Breconshire, was given notice to quit on 2nd September, 1943, after his farm had been twice sold and whether it is the policy of the Ministry to allow uncontrolled speculation in farms to take place;
(2) whether his Ministry conferred with the Breconshire War Agricultural Executive Committee before he gave his consent to a notice to quit to Mr. Llewellyn, Ty Gwyn Farm, Gilwern, and with what result.An application by the purchaser of Ty Gwyn Farm for consent to a notice to quit to be served on the sitting tenant, received last September, was referred to the Brecon War Agricultural Executive Committee for investigation and report in accordance with the normal procedure, and the decision to consent was taken after full consideration of the Committee's report. The price paid by the purchaser was not reported. No evidence was found to suggest that the purchase by the present owner was speculative in character and my Department was satisfied before consent was given that there was a good prospect of increased food production as a result of the notice becoming operative. It is my policy to prevent uncontrolled speculation in farms, but my powers under Defence Regulation 62 (4A) have to be exercised judicially, and in this case no sufficient justification for refusing consent was found.
Is not the Minister aware that the war agricultural executive committee did not favour the termination of the tenancy of this farm; that this farmer is a perfectly good farmer, and that the notice to quit was given before the new tenant had been chosen? In those circumstances, is not the Minister facilitating the robbing of decent farmers of their livelihood?
I cannot accept the implications of that supplementary question. My information is that the new tenant is known to be in possession of capital, and of the advice of first-class farmers to carry out his intention of increasing food production on this farm. The present farmer is only a B farmer and not an A farmer and I am satisfied that food production will increase and not decrease as a result of my action.
Should not that decision have been made by the war agricultural executive committee? Are they not competent to decide what should happen?
No, Sir, the responsibility is mine.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter again at an early date.
Channel Islanders
54.
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware of the hardships being endured by the British subjects in the Channel Islands, who suffer from insufficient food, fuel and clothing; whether arrangements can be made for Red Cross parcels to be sent to the Channel Islands through the International Red Cross; and will representations be made to the International Red Cross with a view to the amelioration of the hardships now being suffered by residents there.
My hon. Friend has been good enough to send my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary some particulars which have been supplied to him about an individual case, but collation of the information which has reached the Home Office from numerous sources does not show that the statement given to my hon. Friend is typical of conditions in the Channel Islands. On the question of what can be done to ameliorate the position, I cannot for the present add anything to the reply to my hon. Friend, the Member for the Combined English Universities (Mr. E. Harvey) on 2nd March.
Would my right hon. Friend explain how it is that parcels cannot be sent direct by the International Red Cross to people in the Channel Islands, when parcels which are sent to deportees from the Channel Islands in German concentration camps are being forwarded from there, with the consent of the German authorities, to the Channel Islands, and are very gratefully received?
Yes, sir, I could explain that, but I could hardly do so within the limits of a Parliamentary question and answer. I would ask my hon. Friend to have a word with me about it afterwards.
I certainly will, but will some steps be taken with the Inter- national Red Cross to see if some of these parcels cannot be sent direct to these unfortunate people, many of whom are dependent largely for food on carrots and turnips boiled in sea water because there is no salt?
We all have the greatest sympathy with the hardships these people are suffering, but I would direct my hon. Friend, on the general question—and it is a broad one—to refer to the speech of the Minister of Economic Warfare made in another place yesterday.
Could the Home Secretary consult with the Postmaster-General with a view to making representations to the Portuguese authorities asking them to facilitate the transmission of parcels?
If the hon. Member refers to the speech of the Minister of Economic Warfare, he will see that that matter has been taken up.
Sunday Observance Act (Petition)
55.
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has considered the petition of the Whitefield Urban District Council, Lancashire, asking for the repeal of the Sunday Observance Act and supported by 196 local authorities; and what reply he has given to this petition.
My right hon. Friend has considered the petition referred to but it does not affect the conclusion which he reached and which he stated in replying to my hon. Friend when he raised this matter on the Adjournment on 3rd February.
Does not my right hon. Friend appreciate that the 196 local authorities represent the public opinion of their area; and, in those circumstances, could he, at least, recommend to his right hon. Friend that local option should be granted to those authorities?
The number of authorities to which my hon. Friend refers is 196 out of a total of nearly 1,500 but what my right hon. Friend indicated he desired to see was a change not in local government opinion, but in Parliamentary opinion.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that while his right hon. Friend said that, he gave no indication of facilities for this Parliament to express its opinion on the matter?
Can I put a straight question to the right hon. Gentleman? Has he informed these local authorities that powers are already in the hands of the Army Council to provide Sunday entertainment of troops in theatres in this country, wherever the need exists? Cannot advice be given that they make use of the powers, where troop shows are needed on Sundays, and neither the Lord's Day Observance Society nor any other society can object?
That is a wider question.
Place Names (Public Display)
56.
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, in view of the general restoration of signposts, he will rescind the Order forbidding the public display of place-names on shop-fronts, offices, etc.
58.
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now consider relaxing the restrictions to permit full address of traders to appear on commercial vehicles.
The restrictions referred to are imposed by the Removal of Direction Signs Orders, made under Defence Regulation 4B. Administrative relaxations are made from time to time as circumstances permit, but the time has not yet come when these Orders can be revoked. The question whether further relaxations can now be permitted is under consideration.
Joint Police Forces (Cost)
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how the present cost of the police in amalgamation districts compares with the pre-amalgamation cost of the police in the same districts.
Until the accounts for the present financial year are completed it will not be possible to say how the expenditure on a joint force compares with the expenditure on the constituent forces in the previous year. My hon. Friend will, however, appreciate that, even when the accounts are available, it will be diffi- cult to isolate savings or expenditure directly or indirectly due to amalgamation from the savings or expenditure resulting from other war-time factors.
Education
Ophthalmic Service
60.
asked the President of the Board of Education the number of ophthalmic surgeons, now and pre-war, employed in school clinics; and the number of medical officers or assistant medical officers employed on eye-work in these clinics without the full qualifications of an ophthalmic surgeon and who have not even obtained one of the recognised diplomas in ophthalmology.
In 1938 the number of ophthalmic surgeons employed by local education authorities in the School Medical Service was 418. Comparable figures for the war years are not available but I have no reason to think that the number has fallen materially. Two hundred and twenty-six school medical officers and assistant school medical officers were also employed by local education authorities on eye-work in 1938, but the records do not show how many of them possessed specialist qualifications. Before the Board approve the employment of a school medical officer on eye-work they satisfy themselves that he possesses adequate qualifications and experience.
May I take it that all school children are covered by ophthalmic surgeons?
I cannot give such a sweeping generalisation as that, but we try to do eye-work in the schools in the best way we can in present circumstances.
School Medical Services
62.
asked the President of the Board of Education if, in view of the necessity of maintaining the School Medical Services, he can now give an assurance that no more school medical officers will be called up for the Services.
In the allocation of medical man-power between the various fighting and civilian services proper regard is had for the necessity of maintaining the school medical service at an efficient level, but the needs of the Fighting Services must be the paramount consideration.
Allied Ministers' Conference
63.
asked the President of the Board of Education whether the conference of the Allied Ministers of Education has now set up a continuing organisation; and whether liaison is maintained with U.N.R.R.A. in so far as assistance in school equipment and books is contemplated.
Yes, Sir. The organisation is on a continuing basis and the work of the Allied Ministers' Conference is steadily developing. I do not think that books are likely to fall within the scope of U.N.R.R.A., but the Conference are in consultation with U.N.R.R.A. about the provision of school equipment.