House Of Commons
Wednesday, 30th May, 1945
The House met at a Quarter past Two o'Clock
Prayers
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers To Questions
German Official, Turkey (Surrender)
1.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why the surrender of Mr. Vermehren, senior member of the German secret service in Turkey and his wife, the Countess Vermehren, was declined by the British authorities in Turkey early in 1943, with the result that they were at large for a further year before surrendering to the Americans.
The hon. Member is misinformed. Erich Vermehren went to Turkey at the end of 1942 as an assistant of the Assistant German Military Attaché in Istanbul. While associated with the German Secret Service in Turkey, he was never its head. According to his own statement, Vermehren decided in April, 1943, to go over to the Allies, but he took no actual step in this direction until he could get his wife out of Germany. His wife did not reach Turkey until December, 1943, and it was only in January, 1944, that they both handed themselves over to the British authorities—through the medium of the American authorities.
Am I not right in saying that this surrender was offered to Colonel Gibson, the chief of the British Secret Service, and to Major Cribb, the assistant military attaché, who subsequently committed suicide? If that is so, why did they not report it to the British Ambassador?
As I understand it, in April, 1943, Mr. Vermehren said he wished to go over to the Allies, but until he got his wife out of Germany nearly a year later he did not do so.
Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that this surrender was offered to Colonel Gibson and Major Cribb, and that they took no notice of it?
I do not think that can be right. Mr. Vermehren intimated that he would like to do so but he did not do it until he got his wife out of Germany.
I shall return to this matter again.
Russia
Arrested Polish Representatives
2.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has yet received from the Russian Government information with regard to the 16 Polish democratic leaders who have been arrested by the Russians, about whose fate concern is felt by the Polish Government.
11.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any further report to make on the 16 arrested Poles.
I have received no further information additional to what has been published.
Is it the case that the only offence with which the Poles are charged is the possession of wireless sets?
I do not think it would be true to say that that is the only offence, though it is one of the offences. I asked M. Molotov when I saw him at San Francisco to let us have a full explanation and list of the names. I hope we shall receive them.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say where these men are housed?
No, Sir. The hon. Member knows that we have no access of any kind.
Bornholm (Occupation)
3.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the occupation of the Danish island Bornholm by Russian troops has been undertaken by the Soviet Government as an agreed measure of Allied policy.
The Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force informed the Soviet High Command on 8th May of his intention to send a detachment to Bornholm to accept the surrender of the Germans there and asked whether this conflicted with Soviet plans. The Soviet authorities replied that in view of the fact that the German troops at Bornholm came from areas within the sphere of operations of the Soviet Armed Forces and that the Commander of the German garrison had requested assistance with food the island was being occupied by Soviet Forces. Soviet Forces therefore landed on the island on 9th May. As my hon. Friend will have seen from the Press, the officer commanding the Soviet Forces in Bornholm has issued a statement to the effect that the island is occupied by Soviet Forces provisionally until questions on Germany relating to the war are solved, and that the Red Army do not intend to interfere in Danish administrative matters.
Did the action of the Soviet Government in fact have the approval of the Supreme Allied Commander?
I think my answer makes it clear that it was not a question of getting approval from the Supreme Commander. There was no arrangement of that kind while the military operations were in progress. It was a question who could reach the island first.
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the Swedish anxiety about the occupation of the island? Is there any reason now why the Danish Government should not take it over?
I do not know about Swedish anxiety. I do not know that their contribution to the Allied cause has been very great. So far as the Danes are concerned, I can say that the Danish Foreign Minister and the Ministerial Delegation have been to Bornholm and returned and I understand that the relations between the Russians and the local authorities are reported to be cordial.
Sentenced British Seaman (Release)
4.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has now received a reply from the Soviet Government regarding the sentence of one year's imprisonment with hard labour imposed upon a Scottish sailor, John Connor, aged 22, for the offence of drunkenness and disorderly conduct; and whether he has yet been able to obtain any reduction of this sentence in view of the fact that this man had made four voyages in convoys to the U.S.S.R.
I have been informed by the Soviet Embassy that the Soviet Supreme Court has reviewed this case and has decided that the remainder of the sentence is to be suspended. I understand that Seaman Connor has been released.
Italy (Former Possessions)
5.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can make any statement as to the future of the former Italian possessions in Africa, and of the islands in the Mediterranean occupied by Italy; and if he can give an assurance that Italy will not be allowed again to occupy any such possessions from which she could threaten or interfere with British communications through the Mediterranean and the Red Sea.
These are matters to be settled by agreement between the United Nations and I regret I can make no statement at present.
Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that Italy is not to be treated as a collaborator or a co-operator, but as a defeated enemy?
I do not think I can add to the many statements that have been made on the subject in the past. It has been made clear to the Italian Government that they have no right to the return of any of these Colonies. It is a matter for inter-Allied agreement.
Would not the policy advocated by the hon. and gallant Gentleman be cutting off our nose to spite our face?
Austria (Provisional Government)
7.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will state the present position with regard to the Austrian Provisional Government; and whether the British Government now intends to recognise this Government.
I have at present no further statement to make about the Provisional Austrian Government, except to say that it is not recognised by His Majesty's Government.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say how far this Government exercises any kind of authority in Austria?
No, I cannot, because we are not there to see. Our attitude is that we cannot recognise the Government until such time as our part of the Allied Commission has a full opportunity to see for itself.
When will our part of the Commission be in Vienna?
As the hon. Member knows, there have been a number of obstacles in the matter but I hope, now that they are being removed, that before very long we shall have our people there.
Has one of the Austrian democratic deputies who have been at Buchenwald had an opportunity of returning to Vienna?
I could not say without notice. Perhaps the hon. Member will put a Question down.
Syria And Lebanon
10.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the assurances given to the people of Syria and the Lebanon as to their sovereign independence and right to control their own armed forces, he will state the policy of His Majesty's Government with regard to the recent arrival of fresh French troops in those countries.
I have nothing to add, for the moment, to the reply which I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Carlisle (Sir E. Spears) yesterday.
Is it not the first duty of a mandatory Government to clear out as soon as possible, and do His Majesty's Government consider that there is any-real reason from a mandatory point of view for the retention of French troops in either Syria or the Lebanon?
It is very difficult to debate these complicated matters at Question Time. As I told the hon. Member yesterday, we have taken a certain initiative in an attempt to improve matters in that region and I should like to see the results of the initiative that we have taken. When I know, I will report to the House. In the meantime, I had rather not say any more.
Trieste (Administration)
12.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether satisfactory arrangements have been reached with the Yugoslav Government on the administration of Trieste.
Discussions with the Yugoslav Government about Trieste are still proceeding, and I have no statement to make at the moment.
Will my right hon. Friend represent to Marshal Tito that he will not advance his aims by describing British troops as exercising Gestapo control in another uniform?
We all have the utmost confidence in the fair play and conduct of British Forces, wherever they are.
Will the right hon. Gentleman likewise agree that it will not advance any Allied cause to describe Marshal Tito's actions as bearing any similarity to Hitler's.
Tangier (International Zone)
13.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government now propose to take steps to restore the international status of Tangier.
Yes, Sir. This question is under active consideration by His Majesty's Government with certain other Governments and as soon as I am in a position to make a further statement I will do so.
United States Soldier (Legal Proceedings)
14.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is aware that the assurance contained in a letter from his Department to the hon. Member for Maldon, date 13th February, that T/Sergeant G. H. Moore, U.S. Army, was to be returned for temporary duties to this country in order to be available for service of a petition in civil proceedings, has not been fulfilled and that the solicitors concerned have now been notified on be half of T/Sergant Moore's commanding officer that it is not intended to return him to this country; and if he will urgently renew his representations to the U.S. authorities on this matter.
This matter has already been brought to the attention of my Department by the hon. Member and renewed representations have been made to the United States authorities.
In making those representations, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there was an absolute assurance from his Department, and that at that time the high American military authorities were being extremely helpful, but that some obstruction appears to have occurred lower down in Sergeant Moore's own unit?
They have been helpful in a large number of these cases. What we did not know at the time was that the commanding officer was supposed to have refused to send the man back to the United Kingdom.
Stateless Persons (Nansen Passports)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is considering making an international pass available for all refugees; and whether he will consult with the Norwegian Government with regard to the use of the Nansen passport for this purpose.
I assume that my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to those refugees who are Stateless and consequently have no right to a national passport. I understand that the Intergovernmental Committee on Refugees has set up a commission of experts to study this question in all its aspects and there is, in consequence, no need for independent action by His Majesty's Government. Nansen passports are not the specific concern of the Norwegian Government.
Is not the right hon. Gentleman, as prince of pacificators, certain never to dilute our ideals in this respect?
Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the Nansen passport rendered great service to Stateless persons after the last war, and will His Majesty's Government support proposals for the same passport now?
I agree about the value of the Nansen passport. The matter is being considered by the Inter-governmental Committee, but whether they will want the same procedure or a slightly different one, I do not know.
Is it not the case that this is a matter that will require the assent of other Governments, and that that is why the Committee over which I preside is considering the matter?
Spain (General Franco)
16.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any statement to make regarding the French Committee's request that Franco should be removed; and if he has consulted with our Allies on this subject.
I presume that my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to certain recommendations which, according to reports appearing in the Press, the Foreign Affairs Committee of the French National Consultative Assembly recently made to the French Provisional Government inviting the latter to make an approach to the Allied Governments in connection with Spanish affairs. No communication has been received from the French authorities on the subject, and consequently the reply to both parts of the Question is in the negative.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the substitution of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Aberdare (Mr. George Hall) by the noble Lord the Member for Lanark (Lord Dunglass) as Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will give great pleasure to General Franco in view of that gentleman's well-known—[Interruption.]
I really do not think that is a justified comment on this Question. I would only say that the responsibility for foreign affairs does not lie with any Under-secretary, however distinguished, but with the Foreign Secretary acting in conjunction with his colleagues in the Cabinet.
Yugoslavia (Croatian Catholics)
17.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what action His Majesty's Government propose to take to alleviate the sufferings of the Catholic population of Croatia under Marshal Tito's regime, in view of the responsibility incurred by Great Britain through the assistance rendered by us to the National Liberation Movement.
My hon. and gallant friend will understand that I cannot accept the implication that the assistance rendered by us to the National Liberation Movement of Yugoslavia in the struggle against Germany makes His Majesty's Government responsible for the internal administration of the Yugoslav State. This must remain the responsibility of the Yugoslav Government.
Would it not be as well, in any case, to make it clear to Marshal Tito that it is not the policy of the Allied Powers, having got rid of one illiberal Power in Europe, to encourage the substitution of another?
Will the Government see that British soldiers are not used as mercenaries empowered to re-establish landlords in any country in the Balkans?
Our position is quite clear. So far as we have influence in any of these lands, it will be to do all we can to allow the people of a country to choose the government and administration they want.
War Crimes (Trial Procedure)
18.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether there is now agreement between the Allies on the essential arrangements for the trial of the principal war criminals.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the very full statement which the Prime Minister made yesterday in reply to the Question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton (Lieut.-Colonel Marlowe).
Have we definitely accepted the American proposition that this should be a military tribunal, and can my right hon. Friend say what is to be the location of the court?
I am afraid that my hon. Friend has over-simplified a very com- plicated matter. If he will read the answer which my right hon. Friend gave yesterday, he will find that there is more than one category to be dealt with. All I can say at the moment is that we have had most useful conversations with Judge Jackson in the last few days which have resulted in great progress being made.
In view of the question that has been discussed in the Press today about the trial of "Lord Haw-Haw," can the right hon. Gentleman tell us what is being done with Mr. John Amery, and why there is such a black-out with regard to him?
Neither of these are matters for the Foreign Secretary; they are matters, for the Home Office.
Civil Aviation
Passenger Air-Routes
20.
asked the Secretary of State for Air to what extent the termination of the war in Europe will free civilian passenger air routes for the use of members of the public.
Owing to the continued heavy demands on aircraft for military and other national purposes, facilities for air travel are still severely restricted. The existing arrangements must therefore be continued, under which reservations for travel overseas can normally be made only for passengers who are sponsored by a Government Department. Civil air services operating within the United Kingdom are, however, available for the use of members of the public after the needs of priority passengers have been met.
Scotland-London Service
32.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, what air service is available between Scotland and London; and what are the fares.
There are two air services available between Scotland and London:
(1) London-Liverpool-Renfrew.
The single fare is ÂŁ9. The return fare is ÂŁ14 10s.
(2) London-Belfast-Renfrew.
The single fare is ÂŁ10 10s. The return fare is ÂŁ17.
Is the Minister aware that a Scottish firm has issued a booklet advertising a single fare at ÂŁ3 9s. and return fare at over ÂŁ6? Is this the best that the Minister can do with his new policy, or is he prepared to allow Scotland to run its own air line?
I am very interested to hear the sudden conversion of the Opposition, so soon after their Party conference, to the virtues of private enterprise. I have seen that pamphlet. It is very attractive, but it is not, in the view of my Department, very accurate. It was produced by a company that has never run an air line, that has no experience of running an air line, and has no aircraft with which to run an air line. I understand that it is the hope of this company to rebuild crashed foreign aircraft. That is opposed to the declared policy of the Government, which is that British air lines should use British aircraft.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that large numbers of Members on that side of the House said, during the discussion upon the White Paper, that it was possible to get the cost of air travel down until it was comparable with the cost of railway travel, and that that was probably a strong argument against our policy on this side of the House?
I am full of hope that we shall get the cost of air travel down in the future, but if the hon. Member is worried about this high figure, there is a simple explanation. At the moment we have only very few aircraft available, and the particular type, D.H.87, carries a crew of two and has five passengers. Consequently, overheads are out of all proportion to the pay-load. Unfortunately, we have no other aircraft available to run this service, but in 12 months I hope that we shall have the Viking, which takes 27 passengers. I am full of hope that we shall then have a reduction in cost.
The hon. Gentleman will not be there then.
How does my hon. Friend justify the refusal of the Government to permit a Scottish air line to "muscle in" upon the air line monopoly that has been established for England? Why does he accept the B.O.A.C. statement of the cost of air travel as against the costs submitted by the company to which he has referred?
Is the Minister aware that my information is that the costs are comparable with the costs in America of running similar aircraft, and that public enterprise can be justified only if it is efficient? Is he further aware that this hybrid scheme which is proposed is neither public enterprise nor private enterprise and that if it is not to be more successful than is proposed the sooner he scraps it the better?
If the Minister cannot reduce the fare, can he at any rate cut down the time-table of this company? The journey is laborious and very slow.
Private Flying
33.
asked, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation how soon facilities will become available to enable private flying again to start in the United Kingdom.
Private flying, like many other activities, will be restricted for some time to come by limitations of petrol and suitable aircraft, and by limitations of man-power and of civil airfields. I regret that I cannot foreshadow how soon these limitations will disappear. I would add that civil flights may be made with a permit from the Ministry of Civil Aviation where special circumstances justify the flight.
Royal Air Forge
Transfers To Army
21.
asked the Secretary of State for Air if he is aware that airmen over the age of 30 years are being transferred to the Army and, if in view of the cessation of the calling up of men over the age of 30 years, he will take steps to prevent this anomaly as between serving airmen and civilians.
25.
asked the Secretary of State for Air if he is aware of the resentment felt in the Forces and by the families of serving men because men who have put in long service in the R.A.F., in some cases up to five years, are still being transferred to the Army; and if he will stop long-service men from being so transferred.
28.
asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will give the reasons why men are being transferred from the R.A.F. to the Army and the number proposed to be transferred; whether such transfers are limited to certain age groups and also trades and, if so, which; what difference such transfers will make to the dates of release and the rates of pay of those transferred; the estimated time it is expected their Army training will take; and the extent to which the loss of these men to the R.A.F. will postpone the group-release of R.A.F. personnel beyond that announced as probable for the Army.
With permission, I will answer these Questions together. Transfers from the Royal Air Force to the Army have been temporarily suspended.
Has that information been made known to the Air Force in Europe?
I have made it known to-day, and will take steps to make it further known.
Will the position of men recently transferred over the age of 30 be affected by what my right hon. Friend has announced?
No, Sir; the process has been suspended.
Owing to the noise, I was not aware that my Question was being answered with No. 21. I would like to have it answered separately as it covers a good deal more ground.
The hon. Member's Question was answered with No. 21.
On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, may I ask for your guidance? It is obvious that the answer given to Question No. 21 in no way answered my Question No. 28, and, that being so, would it be in Order for me to put this Question down again in exactly the same form?
If the Question has not been fully answered it may be put down again. That is the rule.
If Questions are answered together without the permission of hon. Members who asked them, is not the hon. Member who put the second Question entitled to have the answer repeated?
I am very sorry indeed. I did not intend any discourtesy to the hon. Gentleman, and if there are any points he would like answered I will try to deal with them.
Will the right hon. Gentleman read the answer again?
The answer was—and it seemed to me to be a sufficient answer—that transfers from the Royal Air Force to the Army have been temporarily suspended, and therefore it does not seem to me necessary to answer all these questions which would have arisen had the transfers still been going on.
Transfers have taken place, and I have asked a Question about that and whether the men continue to receive the same rates of pay, and various other points dealing with the past which are quite germane, and on which, in my judgment, an answer should be given to me.
The matters to which the hon. Gentleman has just referred are under review.
Could we have an answer to the latter part of the Question—that is the point—and will the right hon. Gentleman say what effect these transfers to the Army will have on the release of R.A.F. personnel? Could we have an answer to that question?
That is another question.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that airmen are being told that if they volunteer for six years' service with the Royal Air Force, after the war, they will not be transferred to the Army, and this is felt to be a form of blackmail?
After a cursory reading of the files I thought a lucid statement had already been made on this matter by my predecessor, but if I can add to his powerful and persuasive intelligence, and if my hon. Friend will put down his questions again, I will do my best to make the position clear.
Is it not a fact that the Minister said he was answering Questions 21 and 28 together? If that is so could we have an answer to the second, third, fourth and fifth parts of Question No. 28?
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that hon. Members have been receiving letters from men over 30 years of age who have been in the Air Force since 1940, and who are now to be transferred to the Army?
In view of the Minister's statement, will he undertake to review special cases of hardship which have been brought to the notice of his predecessor?
I have undertaken to review the whole question, and it is being reviewed. In order to alleviate any anxiety, I stated frankly that these transfers are not going on, and that the whole question was under review.
In the latter part of the Question the query is whether those men who have already been posted are going to be put at a disadvantage owing to this new state of affairs. That is the question to which we would like a clear answer.
That question will certainly be reviewed.
On a point of Order, might I ask your guidance, Mr. Speaker? This is a matter of supreme importance to many thousands in the Royal Air Force, and it seems to me we are entitled to a straight answer. If I may say so without disrespect, I know the Minister is new, but he has not answered three parts of the Question I put on the Order Paper.
I suggest to the hon. Member that he puts down this Question again.
Physical Exercise Courses
22.
asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will now give instructions to all Commands in the R.A.F. that no personnel who are in Release Groups 1 to 25 shall be sent on courses which involve violent physical exercise, unless they volunteer for them.
No, Sir. Officers and airmen are only called upon to undertake courses involving violent physical exercise if they are of the requisite medical standard. In addition they are under medical supervision while attending the courses.
In what way can the war against Japan be assisted by making middle-aged gentlemen do violent exercises—
The Noble Lord is asking a rather hypothetical question.
Aerodromes
23.
asked the Secretary of State for Air whether a decision has yet been taken on the aerodromes to be kept in use in peace time by the R.A.F.; and whether instructions have been given to cease work on the construction or extension of all aerodromes not so scheduled.
As regards the first part of the Question, I have nothing to add to the replies given to the hon. Member for Maldon on 28th February and 16th May last. As regards the second part of the Question, construction or extension is now limited to work needed for transport airfields or for certain other airfields which, in advance of a general decision, it is already clear will remain in use.
Is there any collaboration between the right hon. Gentleman's Department and, for instance, the Admiralty; and is he aware that there are groups of aerodromes where enormous sums of public money have been wasted and which cannot be used in peace-time?
It is because not all aerodromes are required in peace-time that the work is now being limited to certain aerodromes.
But is there any co-ordination between the Air Ministry and the Admiralty? For instance, in Cornwall there are aerodromes galore on which millions of public money have been spent, and which will be of no use in peace-time.
There has long been close co-operation between the First Lord and myself, and no doubt it will be continued.
Is the Minister aware that the buildings on some of these aerodromes would be very useful for housing families, and will he see that some aerodromes at any rate will be used for that purpose?
I will consider that, but the first question to study is how many will be required for airfields.
Prisoners Of War (Repatriation)
24.
asked the Secretary of State for Air how many members of the R.A.F. were known to be prisoners of war at the time of the German surrender; and how many have since been repatriated.
The answer to the first part of the Question is 7,116 and to the second part 7,220. The latter figure includes prisoners whose capture had not been reported at the time of the German surrender.
Can the Minister hold out any hope that there are still men who were reported missing and who may yet be brought back?
One must hope, but of course, these figures indicate that the percentage of men recovered is very high.
Higher Age Groups (Far East Service)
26.
asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he can give an assurance that members of the R.A.F. who have attained 40 years of age and have served in the B.L.A. or elsewhere overseas will be exempt from being drafted to the Far East.
No, Sir. I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to the replies given to the hon. Member for Ogmore (Mr. E. J. Williams) on 14th February last and to my hon. Friend the Member for Balham and Tooting (Mr. Doland) on 21st March.
Will the Minister bear in mind that it is prejudicial to the health of men of 40 years of age if they are sent overseas?
My hon. Friend will realise that the question of overseas postings is complicated, and I thought it wiser, after one day in office, to confine myself to the very lucid explanations given by my predecessor.
Discharge Groups
27.
asked the Secretary of State for Air what groups it is anticipated will be discharged by the end of the year; how many and which trades in these groups will not be released; and if he will give the numbers of the men to be released and of those whose release is to be withheld.
I regret that it is not at present possible to give the information for which the hon. Member asks.
Would the Minister tell us when he hopes to be able to make a statement on this matter, because men serving in the Army have been given definite information and men serving in the R.A.F. feel they are entitled to similar information?
I am in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour, and I think it would be wiser to make these statements very carefully so that there is no misunderstanding.
Can the right hon. Gentleman state whether there is any truth in the rumour circulating in the Royal Air Force that doctors, clerical orderlies and others attached to the medical staff are being retained beyond their ordinary release group?
I would like notice of that question.
In view of the right hon. Gentleman's recent return to this country, is he aware that a statement has been made by the Minister of Labour that demobilisation will start on 18th June, and there is a feeling in the Royal Air Force that large numbers of men will not be released in their proper turn as laid down in the White Paper? Can he therefore give some information to reassure these men at the earliest opportunity?
I would like to consider that question.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the threatened practice of withholding whole trade groups instead of dealing with men as individual cases will dislocate the whole basis of the age plus length of service system?
I have to consider, of course, as we all do, the working fairly and honourably of the scheme laid down and also the problems of the danger of dislocating the prior needs of the nation for the continuation of a difficult war against Japan.
Port Dues And Railway Rates (Increases)
34.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport, whether he can state the amount by which the P.L.A. has increased its port rates on goods since January, 1943; the increase in the dock and harbour dues at Liverpool and the Port of Hull since the outbreak of war; and the increased rate of charges of the four main line railway companies since the outbreak of war.
Port rates on goods at the Port of London have, since January, 1943, been increased from 100 per cent. above pre-war to 200 per cent. above pre-war. In the case of other charges made by the port authority, the present increases range from 7½ per cent. to 100 per cent. above pre-war. At Liverpool, the increases above pre-war are, approximately, dock rates on goods 31½per cent., dock rates on vessels 39 per cent., harbour rates on vessels 87½ per cent. As at other railway-owned docks, rates and dues at Hull are 20 per cent. above pre-war, except those on certain coasting liners and their cargoes, which are 7½ per cent. above pre-war. Charges on the four main line railways are generally 16⅔ per cent. above pre-war, but season ticket rates and workmen's fares are only 10 per cent. above pre-war.
Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that railway companies will receive the same consideration as other public utility concerns?
The position is somewhat complex and it is hard, and probably unfair, to make a comparison between ports like the Port of London Authority and railways and docks, because entirely different considerations apply.
Roads
Double-Deck Vehicles (Road Space)
35.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport, what is the minimum width of road necessary over which double-deck vehicles can operate with safety and convenience.
I would refer my hon. Friend to paragraphs 6 and 7 of the Memorandum issued by my Department on the layout and construction of roads, of which I am sending him a copy.
Public Service Vehicles (Tyres)
36.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport if he is satisfied as to the safety of, public service vehicles, seven feet six inches in width, owing to the tyres which are now being used on such vehicles having to be made of synthetic rubber and other substitute materials.
Yes, Sir.
Accidents, Pool Bank, Yorkshire
41.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport if he is aware of the increasing number of accidents on Pool Bank, Yorkshire, West Riding; and if he will direct that the remedies to avoid the accidents shall be put into immediate operation.
Plans are being prepared by the county council for the improvement of the bend at Pool Bank.
Railwaymen (War Service)
37.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport if he will arrange to inform the public of the services rendered to the war effort by the railwaymen as a whole, but with particular reference to the arduous and dangerous work of making up goods trains under difficult conditions.
My hon. Friend will remember that an appreciation of the services rendered to the war effort by railwaymen, including those concerned in the making up of goods trains, under enemy attack was included in the book entitled "Transport Goes to War" produced for the Ministry of War Transport by the Ministry of Information in 1942. My Noble Friend will, however, take an early opportunity of revealing a good deal more of the work of railwaymen during the war, both under enemy attack and in the successful mounting of our own defensive and offensive preparations,
While thanking my hon. Friend for his answer, may I ask him to bear in mind that the general public have no conception of the work that has been done by the men who work on the railways?
Will the review which is to be forthcoming also mention the services of railway managements and the sacrifices of railway shareholders?
I hope it will refer to the work done by all parties concerned.
Have not the general public shown their appreciation, time after time, of the extraordinary sacrifices made by men of the railway companies, not only managers but the people on the railways?
Petrol (Motor Coaches)
38.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport when it is proposed to authorise an issue of petrol for motor coaches.
40.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport whether he will, in view of the improved war situation, consider, permitting the use of motor coaches during the summer holiday season for short journeys of up to 50 miles so that repatriated prisoners of war and industrial war workers may enjoy portions of their leave in the countryside.
I would refer my hon. Friends to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Glenvil Hall) yesterday.
While thanking the hon. Member, may I ask him, in view of the reply which he gave yesterday, whether he is aware that overtime in war factories is continuing on a very large scale and whether he will reconsider the matter, so that the people in war factories can get this stay in the country, when apportunity offers?
My Noble Friend is reconsidering this matter and, as I said yesterday, it is not only a question of petrol but of man-power as well.
Middle East Supply Centre
39.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport whether he will publish, at an early date, a White Paper describing the work of the Middle East Supply Centre and of the technical authorities connected with it.
My Noble Friend will gladly consider in what form further information may best be given about the achievements of the Middle East Supply Centre.
In making this preparation, will my hon. Friend also cinsider maintaining the beneficient constructive activities of this centre and not allow them to lapse?
It may well be that the future of the Middle East Supply Centre will affect Departments dealing with a rather wider scope of policy than before.
Ministry Of Information
Bbc Monitoring Service
42.
asked the Minister of Information what steps are being taken to reduce the monitoring service of the B.B.C.
The present scale of the B.B.C. monitoring service is principally due to the demands of the Service and other Government Departments. We intend to make reductions and their scope is now being considered.
Will not the abolition of German broadcasting mean that the German side of this service can be reduced forthwith?
I think that is largely so.
Is it possible for the right hon. Gentleman, now that he is Minister of Information, to remove the prejudice of the B.B.C. staff against minority opinion in this country?
Will the Minister consider the question of the "News Digest," and take no steps which will interfere with the monitoring necessary for the preparation of that invaluable document?
Yes, Sir.
Is it not a fact that the situation in Germany, and the need for re-educating Germany, is a reason for extending and not cutting down the German monitoring?
I think the hon. Member is mistaken. It is not the German services that are concerned, but the monitoring services.
Eritrea (Publication)
43.
asked the Minister of Information whether he is aware that, at the branch of his Ministry in Asmara, the "Eritrean Weekly" published, in the local language, Tigrinya, on 3rd August, 1944, an editorial "Plans for the Future of Eritrea," claiming that Britain, having assisted in the liberation of Ethiopia, must be compensated by the division of Eritrea into two parts, the lowland to be joined to the Sudan and the highland to be placed under British rule for 25 years, the Tigrai province of Ethiopia to be joined with this new State; whether this represents the policy of His Majesty's Government in this regard; and whether, in view of the assurances in the Atlantic Charter, he will take steps to terminate such propaganda in this area.
The article to which the hon. Member refers was not an editorial. It was a contribution which came, and was stated to come, from an Eritrean and was preceded by an editorial statement that the paper welcomed free expressions of opinion but did not necessarily agree with the views published in its columns.
While that may be true, does the Minister realise that the impression given must inevitably be that this is in some way a representation of British Government policy?
No, Sir, because another article giving an exactly contrary view, was published a few weeks later.
German Concentration Camps (Films)
44.
asked the Minister of Information whether, owing to the present difficulties, especially for the inhabitants of remote rural districts, of getting into the towns to attend cinema performances, he will cause exhibitions to be held in village halls of the Buchenwald and other films showing Nazi characteristics; and if he is aware that there is a strong desire in these areas that this should be done.
Yes, Sir. I will give instructions that the Ministry's mobile film projectors should be available for this purpose.
Will the Minister see to it that any film which is shown in that way is shown without the objectionable interpolations which Mr. Speaker indicated the other day ought never to have been made?
Yes, Sir.
Minister Of Health (Designation)
45.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider changing the designation of the Minister of Health to Minister of Health and Local Government, in view of the fact that it is often not realised that this Minister is responsible for many aspects of local government in addition to health.
Personally I never liked the change from "President of the Local Government Board" to "Minister of Health." But I think it would be a great mistake to make another change now.
War Decorations And Medals
46.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will now consider extending the award of the 1939–45 Star to those personnel of Anti-Aircraft Command who were operationally engaged for a suitable period in the defence of Britain.
No, Sir, the Defence Medal is to be granted in recognition of such service in the United Kingdom.
Is my right hon. Friend not really willing to reconsider this matter? Is he not aware that there is considerable feeling amongst personnel of "Ack-Ack" Command that there should be a distinction between them and members of the civilian services?
The losses in the Fire Service were many times higher than those in Anti-Aircraft Command. I do not think this is a case for making particular trouble. I would have liked very much to have made some particular distinction for Anti-Aircraft Command but that, as I have said before, involves bringing in enormous other numbers. Whatever Anti-Aircraft Command gets the air ground staffs, running into 700,000, require, and before you know where you are the number has reached a million. We have tried to cater for all these millions by the Defence Medal. If we now pick out any special honour for Anti-Aircraft Command, that will open the whole question again. I only wish that we could meet the case, perhaps by more small badges and so forth, but I am very much afraid of opening again the flood-gates, and having to begin again from where we started.
Will my right hon. Friend consider dividing the Defence Medal into Military and Civil Divisions as has been done in many cases, for example, the Order of the Bath? Will he note the objection of the Armed Forces to being given a civil medal?
In that case there would be great difficulties between the claims of Anti-Aircraft Command and those of the air forces on the stations, and of the troops employed in this country. A great many differences and difficulties would arise, and in some cases civil staffs were more severely hit.
Wales (Secretary Of State)
47.
asked the Prime Minister if His Majesty's Government will set up a Welsh Office to be administered by a Secretary of State.
I am not in a position to make any statement on this subject.
In view of the approaching Election, does my right hon. Friend not agree that the people of Wales are entitled to have some indication of the views of His Majesty's Government on this very vital matter, before they have the opportunity of recording their votes?
I think that all these matters have to be considered in due course, but the choice of the moment at which to make any declaration must naturally rest with the responsible Ministry of the day.
Will the Prime Minister, in making any statement about this particular matter, have regard to long-term considerations and not to short-term electoral considerations?
Yes, Sir, I certainly think so. I should not be prepared, for instance, to make a decided departure at this moment, in the hope that it would get more votes for this side of the House at the coming Election. I would like it to be freely discussed.
Can the Prime Minister say whether the Committee appointed by the Cabinet have sat at all?
I cannot carry in my mind all the different Cabinet Committees which are appointed from time to time, still less how many times they have sat.
If the right hon. Gentleman is lucky once again to be Prime Minister in a new Government, will he bear in mind that the real issue in connection with the claims for Welsh Home Rule, is the different constitutional treatment meted out as between Scotland and Wales in that in Scotland there are a State office and separate Ministers and there are not a similar office or Ministers for Wales?
When the Prime Minister is considering these special offices for Wales and Scotland, will he also consider a special office for England?
That is another question.
General Election (Polling Date)
48.
asked the Prime Minister if, where 5th July is a public holiday as in such Scottish constituencies as at Greenock, he will take the necessary steps to permit polling taking place not later than 12th July, providing always that no party involved in the Election objects to the proposed change.
I am in favour of this sort of suggestion, and not only as regards Scotland, and propose to arrange for it to be discussed—in fact I think it it going to be discussed to-day—through the usual channels, as soon as the necessary information has been obtained as to what constituencies are affected.
While we are all grateful for this most generous and reasonable attitude, will the Prime Minister do everything he can to speed a decision, because so many other arrangements depend upon it?
Yes, Sir, I was, until a late hour last night, talking about it. Having regard to the altogether abnormal and undue length of this Election, there will be plenty of time to deal with this very point.
Will the Prime Minister remember that 12th July is a much more important holiday?
No solution to which I shall be a party will involve an Election in Northern Ireland on 12th July.
As the matter involves legislation in any case, will the Prime Minister consider the alternative which has been suggested on several occasions of a wide extension of absent voting on the basis of a person being an absent voter up to ten days before the poll? That would solve a vastly greater number of problems than voting on different days.
I should have thought, after some consideration of this matter, that that would plunge us all into hopeless chaos.
Food Supplies
Oils And Fats (Imports)
51.
asked the Minister of Food, in view of the cut in the fats ration, how soon he expects to be able to import some quantity of olive oil from Italy, or soya, peanut or other oil from elsewhere.
I very much regret that there is no prospect of obtaining additional supplies of oils and fats during the next few months by importing supplies of the kind to which the hon. Member refers.
Fish
52.
asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the shortage of fish in the Liverpool and Merseyside area, he will take steps to see that there is an improvement in both supplies and quality.
I am having inquiries made, and will write to my hon. and gallant Friend as soon as possible.
Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that the position is also very disappointing in the Midlands, and will he exercise some pressure over the personnel in the Admiralty to obtain more trawlers, as soon as they can possibly be spared from naval service?
The Admiralty are giving up more trawlers. They could not give up a great number before victory in Europe had been achieved, but now we are getting some more.
Is not the question of transport a more potent one than that of supplies?
It boils down largely to a question of man-power at every stage of distribution, from the time the fish comes into the harbour until it is served on the fishmongers' slabs. We are going into all these matters.
Are we using German prisoners to deal with this matter?
Not yet.
53.
asked the Minister of Food for how long it is proposed to keep in operation the scheme for zoning fish.
So long as the transport and supply positions make it necessary, but no longer.
Catering Licences
54.
asked the Minister of Food whether it is a condition of the granting of a catering licence that the applicant should have been in similar business before the war or whether the policy is to give preference to such individuals; and how many licences, particularly in the ice-cream business, have been granted to persons of Italian or German origin.
The answer to the first part of the Question is, "No, Sir." In general, a licence for a new catering business is not granted unless the business is required to meet the essential needs of consumers, but this condition is not applied in the case of an ex-trader released from the Forces or from work of national importance who wishes to reopen a former business which he closed as a result of the war. With regard to the latter part of the Question, I regret that the information is not available.
Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman any idea of how many licences have been issued to Italians? What steps is he taking to ensure that a reasonable proportion of these licences are reserved for men who have been serving overseas, and to ascertain that they are issued to such men?
To get an accurate account I should have to circulate 1,200 food offices; but I know that no Italian has got a licence unless there has been a consumer need, and normally only in cases where Italians have bought existing businesses and want to carry them on.
Fruit And Feeding Stuffs (Imports)
55.
asked the Minister of Food what steps he is taking, in view of the reduction of certain rationed foodstuffs, to resume or increase the import of West Indies bananas, Empire citrus and deciduous fruit, and feeding stuffs for poultry and livestock in the United Kingdom.
Arrangements have already been made to import the maximum quantities of Empire citrus fruit and feeding stuffs for which shipping space can be made available. We shall also import some apples, but I do not anticipate that freight can be spared this year for other deciduous fruit, whilst bananas require specially refrigerated vessels, as well as ventilated railway vehicles, neither of which can at present be spared for this traffic.
Does not meat require specially refrigerated vessels, and will not the reduction in the meat ration release a certain number of these vessels? Cannot they be used for carrying bananas?
Banana vessels are very useful for bringing in bacon, as well as bananas. [Interruption.] Some of it is coming in, but not as much as I would have liked. The main vessels in which we shall probably have spare space are the other refrigerated vessels. I hope to bring considerably more oranges in those vessels.
Can the Minister give any information about the millions of pounds of apples in Queensland, Australia, which have been in reserve for us for a long time, and have not yet reached us?
Australia is a long way away, and it is an extravagant place to bring apples from, from the point of view of shipping.
But we used to be able to sell them here at 5d. a pound, which is less than the price of apples grown in this country to-day.
Business Of The House
May I ask the Leader of the House whether he has any statement to make about any alterations in the Business for to-day?
We desire to obtain to-day the Report and Third Reading of the Requisitioned Land Bill, and the two formal Motions to bring the Local Government (Boundary Commission) Bill and the Liabilities (War-Time Adjustment) (Scotland) Bill back to the Floor of the House. If there is time, and if it is agreeable to the House, we would like also to take the Report and Third Reading of the Forestry Bill and the Second Reading of the Camps Bill. [Lords].
I take it that it is not the desire of the Government that the House should sit very late? We have no objection to these Bills.
I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. I have been encouraged by the fact that the Committees have been making such progress to think that we might get through this Business.
Will the right hon. Gentleman be in a position to let the House know to-morrow when he proposes to ask the indulgence of the House in regard to Supply days?
Yes, Sir, I can give information about it. I do not propose to move the Motion to-morrow, because I want to see where we stand in relation to Supply before I move the Motion.
Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to proceed with the Scottish Bill dealing with war-time adjustments?
Yes, Sir. I am sure the hon. Gentleman would welcome that Bill, because it gives Scotland privileges which England at present enjoys.