asked the Under-secretary of State for Air when he will be in a position to make a statement regarding the progress and prospects of the educational and vocational training scheme in the R.A.F.

With Mr. Speaker's permission and that of the House, I propose to make a statement at the end of Questions.

The Educational and Vocational Training Scheme in the Royal Air Force is now beginning to get under way. The result of a sample census showed that some 600,000 airmen and airwomen—about 65% of the total strength of the R.A.F.—want to make use of the scheme in one way or another. We shall satisfy this splendid demand for adult education to the very limit of our resources. In addition to our own education officers some 9,000 full-time instructors have been trained—and many part-time instructors are being used. We have so far provided 700,000 school books, three million exercise books, 100,000 training syllabuses, 1,600,000 Ministry of Labour pamphlets and much other scholastic material. So far about 200,000 students have actually begun work in the Home Command. I cannot yet give the corresponding figures for Overseas Commands, but there too the scheme is getting going.

The courses are of two kinds: educational courses—which include training in citizenship, improving a man's or woman's standard of basic education, or helping him or her to prepare for University and professional examinations: vocational courses—which consist of technical instruction for a trade. A man may wish to learn a new trade—say one of the building trades—from the beginning. Or a man with a skilled R.A.F. trade—say a fitter on aero-engines—may want a course which will enable him to apply his skill to a corresponding civilian trade—say a fitter on motor engines. This side of the work is carried on in consultation with the Ministry of Labour. There have been certain difficulties in selecting the trades, and the numbers to be trained for each trade, which have delayed this part of the scheme. But I hope and believe, that these difficulties are now being overcome. We are always careful to state clearly that E.V.T. training can carry with it no guarantee of employment in the particular trade selected.

Finally, the House will recognise that no scheme of this magnitude, which had to be extemporised amidst many other pressing tasks, can be equally effective or efficient in every part of the Service. Some Commands and some Stations have been able to get going more rapidly than others. But I can assure the hon. Member for Oxford (Mr. Hogg)—who, I know, has this scheme very much at heart—that every effort will be made to make it a success. We are determined to see that E.V.T. contributes something to the permanent welfare of hundreds of thousands of airmen and airwomen, in what will be their last few months with the Royal Air Force.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for the comprehensive statement on this subject which he has just given, may I ask him a question with regard to the difficulties to which he referred in relation to the vocational part of the scheme? Hitherto, as I understand it, the scheme has been limited to four trades—agriculture, building, furniture-making, and retail distribution. Would the hon. Gentleman tell the House to what trades it is now to be extended and whether any, and if so what, restrictions are still to be imposed?

I am glad to be able to say that it has been extended, in agreement with the Ministry of Labour, to a fairly comprehensive list of other trades. As the hon. Member knows, there is a further distinction between the ab initio courses and courses converting a man's skill from a Service trade to a civilian trade, and the list of trades to which it has been extended is different in each case. We have not got all we want on the point, but we have gone a fairly long way, and vocational training on a reasonable scale will now be able to go forward.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the objection to the scheme, even by the 65 per cent, of men and women in the Air Force who have signed on for this scheme, and the lack of confidence they feel in it, is because it is held up in many cases until the last month or so of their Service career; and would not he agree that even if people are in release groups 60 or 70, now is the time to start getting training under the E.V.T. scheme if it is to be of any use to them?

I fully agree with that, and the need for haste is very great, but, as I say, the scheme is only now getting under way. The difficulties have been very great. For example, 1,300,000 books are needed. We have not got them all yet. We have only 700,000.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider putting at the disposal of Members, perhaps in the Library of the House, a full schedule of the trades available to be learned under the vocational part of the scheme?

Certainly. They will be published.

While realising my hon. Friend's interest in this matter, may I ask whether he is aware that three weeks ago, only one training instructor had arrived in Germany in connection with the scheme?

That certainly is not my information, but if the hon. Member will let me have any information he has to substantiate his statement I will look into it.

Will my hon. Friend say how many of the 200,000 have already started courses owing to being posted for R.A.F. service where similar facilities are available?

There are places where this service is going on, but I could not give the figure.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman to explain why it is necessary to have one compulsory hour a week, and whether it is necessary in those trades where overtime is worked and E.V.T. courses cannot be taken?

Under the Regulation they are allowed to work for six hours per week in Service time. The difficulty, of course, is that some stations are very busy with Transport Command work, while other stations are not so busy, and it is difficult to fit a scheme to the needs of all the different Commands.

That does not answer my question. What I wish to know is whether it is necessary to insist upon one hour's compulsory E.V.T. training in those trades where the member was not allowed to take part in the normal E.V.T. scheme because of the heavy work in those particular trades.

That is not my information, but perhaps the hon. Member will put his facts before me.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air why education officers in the R.A.F., when they are disabled, are compensated as civilians, whereas in the other Armed Forces they are compensated as Servicemen.

Officers of the Royal Air Force Educational Service, when they are disabled, are compensated as civilians because they are civilians. These officers, although commissioned in the R.A.F.V.R., were not embodied or mobilised and so retained their civilian status. The future status of this Service is under consideration.

May I ask whether the hon. Gentleman's reply refers also to those officers who were actually embodied and mobilised at the beginning of the war?

:Those who were embodied and mobilised, and remained embodied and mobilised, are not referred to, of course, but it refers to those who were only temporarily mobilised.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air how many education officers and other ranks in the R.A.F. have been disabled on duty by enemy action and of these how many have been disabled in the highest degree.

:One education officer has been disabled by enemy action in Europe. He suffered disability in the highest degree. Two other education officers have been held prisoners by the Japanese, but it is not yet known whether either of these has been disabled

In view of the extremely limited number of people affected—one or two—and the very strong sense of injustice which they feel at being treated less well than similar grades in the Army and Navy, will the hon. Member ask the Secretary of State for Air to reconsider this matter with proper sympathy?

:The hon. and gallant Member has been in correspondence with my Noble Friend on the subject, and he is aware of the considerations which led my Noble Friend not to accede to that demand, but if he has some new facts, I am quite sure that my Noble Friend will consider them.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air why experienced graduate teachers serving in the meteorological section of the R.A.F. are being denied release from the services under Class B; whether priority is given under Class B for officers as well as other ranks who are teachers in civil life; and why it is necessary to post such personnel of importance to the teaching profession overseas now the war is over.

:Both officers and airmen of all branches of the R.A.F. are eligible for release in Class B as teachers. Some meteorological officers have already been so released. Unfortunately, however, it has been necessary to refuse release under Class B to some teachers who are meteorological officers. There are two reasons for this. First, an exceptionally high proportion—over 50 per cent.—of our wartime meteorological officers are teachers. Second, the very heavy transport commitments of the R.A.F. in bringing home men from overseas under the release and leave schemes creates a demand for meteorological officers, particularly overseas, which simply has to be satisfied in the interest of safety.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that a number of these have been concentrated and there are now more people for the jobs and less work to do, and that a number of them could surely be released under Class B?

A number have been, and are being, released.

My information is that no such releases have yet taken place.

Oh, no. The hon. Member's information is wrong there. Releases of meteorological officers have taken place under Class B and are continuing to take place.

:Will my hon. Friend tell us how it is that these people in the meteorological office are not able to get any information about their release at all, and that nobody is able to give them any information?

No, Sir, the release groups of meteorological officers are promulgated and if they read the promulgations they will see their group in the scheme.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air if he is aware of the dissatisfaction in the accounting branch of the R.A.F. because of the holding of men in this branch beyond their proper age and service groups; if he is satisfied that this policy is necessary; and whether he will take steps to redirect other grades of good general education to take over accountancy work and so enable accountant branch personnel to be released with their correct groups.

Yes Sir, I am aware of dissatisfaction in the Accountant Branch—naturally no one likes to have their release delayed. But I am also satisfied that this delay is unavoidable, more especially in view of the recent speed-up in the general rate of release, which throws a still heavier burden on the Accounts Branch. Active steps are being taken to train suitable new men for the job and 1,450 have now been trained or have entered into training and a further 2,150 will be trained or training for this branch by the end of the year. As a result, the position is improving, but I must warn the House that the faster we go in general demobilisation, the more difficult it will be to achieve evenness as between different trades and ranks.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this position does not seem to arise in other Services?

No, Sir, the release by trade and rank is observed in the Royal Navy and, as my hon. Friend has seen in the Press, it has lately been introduced in the Army also.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the cases which I have brought to his notice of men under this section who have served for six years in the Air Force, and also of their complaint that they themselves were obtained for special work for a matter of a few weeks?

The training period is for four or five weeks and we are training the numbers I have mentioned, which should, by the end of the year, largely relieve the situation.

Can the Under-Secretary tell us when he now expects the release of this branch to be all square with the general release scheme?

No, Sir; I cannot give a general assurance on that; it depends on the general releases which have been speeded up.

Can the Under-Secretary tell us whether his promise that the posi- tion would be evened up by the end of the year no longer holds good?

No, Sir; I cannot agree that I gave any such promise. I said that releases between trades and branches were being evened up; and there has in fact been appreciable progress in that respect during the Recess. I never gave any undertaking that the releases as between trades would be perfectly even by the end of the year.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air why meteorological officers of group 15 and above are being excluded from the Class A demobilisation scheme; how many temporary meteorological officers recruited between 2nd September 1939 and 1942 have yet been released; and how many civilian meteorological officers have so far been released.

No meteorological officer in the Royal Air Force is excluded from the Class A release scheme. Officers in group 15 will be released in October, and those in groups 16-20 in November and December. As to the second part of the question, 40 wartime meteorological officers and 10 civilian officers have so far been released.

Will the hon. Gentleman remove the misapprehension that exists in the Service that these civilian officers are getting out more easily than recruited Service officers—the men who have been transferred to the R.A.F. Reserve and are being kept in?

I do not think the figures bear out the hon. Member's statement, as 40 commissioned meteorological officers have been released and only 10 civilians.

Can the Minister say what proportion of civilian officers have been released and what proportion of Service men?

I cannot give that without notice.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware that the release of Intelligence officers of the R.A.F. is up to four months behind their group dates; and whether he is satisfied that such postponement of release is operationally vital.

The difficulty with Intelligence officers is that they tend to be older men, and so to be particularly numerous in the early release groups. Therefore this Section would have been denuded if they had been released in step with, for instance, aircrew. In October they were four groups behind the majority of officer trades while in November and December they are two groups behind. In any case there is nothing like a four months' delay.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Intelligence officers in the South East Asia Air Force who had been delayed in their demobilisation are not being used for Intelligence duties but for documentation work at release embarkation depots?

Perhaps the hon. Member will give me specific instances of misemployment of that kind, but a certain amount of misemployment is inevitable at the moment, and is even desirable in order to speed up the general releases.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air whether he has yet reached a decision with regard to the grievances of those men in the R.A.F. who were transferred to vital work in aircraft industries and who, despite assurances given them at the time, have now found that they are in a much higher numbered group than they would have been if they had not been so transferred.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air whether he has now reconsidered the position of R.A.F. personnel who were temporarily released to industry; and whether he will now arrange that such civilian service be taken into account for calculating their demobilisation group numbers.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air whether he is aware that men on temporary release to industry were informed that their period of release would count towards their current engagement, but that the terms of this promise in relation to demobilisation are not being carried out; and since many of the men directed and then re-directed, to workshops in different parts of the country would have been in a stronger financial position had they remained in the Service, if he will now reconsider this decision.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air if he can now make a statement with regard to the demobilisation of airmen who accepted temporary release for civilian war work upon the assurance that the time so spent would count as military service.

It has now been decided that those airmen who received an unqualified written assurance that their period of release to industry

"would count as service towards their current engagements"

will count that period as service for calculating their age and service release groups. Their release groups will be adjusted accordingly. This decision has been come to because the interpretation put on the above assurance by the men is undoubtedly the natural one to put on it. Therefore the Government feel that the importance of avoiding an apparent breach of faith with the men must override other considerations. The decision does not mean that the Government has changed its previous view that it is, in principle, unfair to count the time when a man was released to industry as the equivalent for release purposes of time served with the colours. Therefore, it would be quite wrong to extend this concession to any but those who received the unqualified written assurance.

Will my hon. Friend now take measures to see that those men who are still not released, and who because of the Government's previous decision have not been notified of their demobilisation group numbers, will now so be notified?

Yes, Sir, I will see that this is carried out.

While welcoming the reply as far as it goes, why does the Minister seek to draw a distinction between written assurances and other forms of assurance?

I think that the only assurance we can take is a written assurance. We could not decide whether a man had been given an oral assurance.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he will now use for storage purposes the many empty R.A.F. hangars in the country and thus release the industrial premises requisitioned on his behalf at present being used for storage.

Yes, Sir. We are doing so. Ninety-four airfields with hangars have been allotted for storage and 51 further airfields will be so allotted in the near future as they become available.

Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will, as quickly as possible, give up those requisitioned premises that are in the possession of his Department to-day?

Of course, we will, as quickly as possible.

asked the Under-secretary of State for Air what action is being taken in regard to the R.A.F. X Photographic Section, Austria, formerly No. 3 M.F.P.S., in view of the misuse of equipment and manpower in the creation of work to prevent its disbandment, particulars of which have been sent him.

Inquiries are being made into this matter, and I will communicate with my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what is the number of R.A.F. personnel at present stationed in Iceland; for what purpose they are there; and for how much longer he expects that it will be necessary to keep them there.

There are 2,050 members of the R.A.F. in Iceland. They carry out meteorological and air-sea rescue flights and other duties connected with the trans-Atlantic air route. A substantial reduction in their numbers is now in progress and it is hoped that withdrawal of the whole contingent will be completed in about six months, as and when peacetime arrangements for the work can be introduced.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he can now inform the House of his Ministry's proposals as to the size and conditions of service, etc., of the post-war Air Force.

The ultimate strength of the regular and non-regular Air Force has yet to be determined in the light of post-war requirements. The conditions of service of the post-war Air Force are under active consideration, and will be announced as soon as possible.

Will the Government let us have a White Paper on this subject as soon as they can?

An announcement will be made in one form or another.

Well, it had better be in a White Paper.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he is aware that about 40 airfields in East Anglia, formerly occupied by the U.S.A.A.F., are now unused or used only for storage purposes; that each of these has living accommodation for 2,400, mostly surplus to requirements; that the War Department has pressed for the release of this accommodation to provide for troops at present quartered in requisitioned houses but have been refused except in one case where part of the accommodation is occupied by prisoners of war; and whether he will order a full investigation to be made with a view to making his contribution to the alleviation of the housing shortage.

A total of 54 airfields in East Anglia were occupied by the United States Army Air Force. Twenty-four have so far reverted to us. The disposal of these airfields as between the Royal Air Force and the other Services and other civil departments anxious to use them for storage, etc., is under active consideration. Spare accommodation at six of them has already been allotted to the Admiralty and the War Office for soldiers and sailors who would otherwise be living in requisitioned properties. Sixteen further airfields are in process of transfer from the United States authorities, and here again accommodation will be offered to other departments. Fourteen airfields are still in the hands of the United States authorities. I can assure the hon. and gallant Member that in these and other ways we shall do everything in our power to contribute to overcoming the housing shortage.

Will the Under-Secretary give the House an assurance that, where the living accommodation on these airfields can be separated from the landing ground accommodation, which is what is usually required for storage purposes, it will be done, in order that Group I properties, in this case from the Wash to the Thames Estuary, may be given up by the War Department, as they could be if these airfields were under War Department control?

:Yes, Sir; I think I can give such an assurance. In many cases, the airfield accommodation has been split up between two different users in that way already.

Will the Minister consider moving Air Ministry staff out of requisitioned property, notably hotels, into these camps?

In the vicinity of East Anglia?

In any vicinity.

I am afraid that it is East Anglia with which we are dealing.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he will make arrangements for the disposal of aerodromes in Northern Ireland which have been vacated and others likely soon to be unused in order that their sites may be utilised for growing farm produce next year.

Six of the existing airfields in Northern Ireland are no longer required by the R.A.F. The other Government Departments concerned and the Government of Northern Ireland are being consulted on their disposal. These discussions should not take long and, provided the airfields are not required by other Departments, it should be possible to release at least some of them in time for the growing of farm produce next year. In the meantime the airfields will be available for grazing.

May I ask the Minister to hurry up having regard to the fact that these airfields are an eyesore and that aerodromes are now lying derelict to-day, when the farmers wish to have them back in order to get them into cultivation again?

I realise the need for speed in this matter and I thank the hon. Member for putting this Question down. Steps have, in fact, been taken.

Can the Minister give any indication when the decision on policy on how many of these aerodromes are to be retained will be reached, because there is a very large number in a comparatively small area?

The final decision on the matter will depend, of course, on the final disposition and strength of the R.A.F., and that cannot be come to immediately, though, in the majority of cases, their immediate disposal can be decided, and is being decided now.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he is aware of the anxiety among personnel in the R.A.F. groups whose release is to be held back in case their chances of being accepted for post-service training, through such schemes as those for teachers, will be prejudiced by the delay; and whether he will ensure that these men have equal opportunity to avail themselves of the facilities of the various schemes and an equal chance of acceptance for posts; and if he will employ the usual service means to make this clear.

I can quite understand that there is natural anxiety on this score. But we are assured by the authorities responsible for post-service training that the various resettlement schemes will be fully available to those in the later release groups. We are taking every opportunity to make this clear in the Service.

May I assume from that answer that men who are accepted for teaching training before they reach the age of 35—the age limit—will be eligible for retraining although they have passed the 35th year before their release?

I think I should have to have notice of that Question to give an adequate reply but, as I understand it, that would be the case.

Is it not a fact that those men are not even being selected while they are still in the Service; and could not the hon. Gentleman send Selection Boards out to the various theatres?

:We do not manage the post-service training; that is the responsibility of the Ministry of Labour and other Departments. However, I will certainly take up the suggestion made by the hon. Member.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what complaints he has received regarding the low flying of aircraft from the Heston Airport over Heston and Southall and its effects on the health of the women and children in those districts; whether he is aware that this is not only true of the exhibition flights carried out, on 2nd October, but is characteristic of most days of the week; and if he will give instructions for such low flying over built-up areas to cease.

:A complaint has been received in the Air Ministry concerning low flying near Heston Airport on 2nd October, and this is being investigated. There have been no other recent complaints. My hon. Friend will realise that some disturbance is unavoidable when aircraft are landing and taking off from airfields near built-up areas.