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Commons Chamber

Volume 414: debated on Tuesday 23 October 1945

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House Of Commons

Tuesday,23rd October, 1945

The House met at a Quarter past Two o'clock

Prayers

[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]

Oral Answers To Questions

Scotland

Housing

1.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether it is intended to introduce legislation in the present Session to raise the maximum value of a house for the purposes of the Small Dwellings Acquisition (Scotland) Act.

4

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what percentage of grants under the Rural Workers Housing Act were made in Argyll between 1929 and 1939, to persons in respect of dwellings in which they themselves dwell as owners or by feu.

How do those figures tie up with the statement that this reconditioning was done almost completely for houses tied to farms?

5.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is in a position to make a statement on the findings of the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee on owner-occupied houses and sub-divided houses, respectively, and the desirability of encouraging house building from non-Governmental sources.

The Committee's report on the provision of houses for owner- occupation has been received and will be published in due course. Their report on the modernisation of houses, including houses suitable for sub-division, has not yet been submitted. The Government's policy with regard to private enterprise building was fully dealt with in the course of the Debate on 17th October.

Can the Minister say when he is likely to deal with the first two parts of the Question, in view of the urgency of the housing problem?

The hon. Gentleman has been informed that one of the Committees has not yet reported. The other Committee has reported, and I have given instructions that the report is to be printed; as soon as it is printed it will be available to hon. Members.

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. May I, with great respect, call your attention to the present seating arrangements on this side of the House? We are a very small Opposition—

What steps does the Minister propose to take to facilitate the purchase of houses in Scotland by their occupiers?

7.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he can make any statement about the emergency houses in Lanarkshire and particularly Bellshill; and can he also give details of the cost of trying to make these houses habitable.

8.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the distress and inconvenience caused to the tenants of emergency houses at Westburn, Cambuslang, what steps he proposes to take to remedy this matter.

I am aware of the difficulties which have arisen in connection with these emergency houses. Various measures for improvement were undertaken last year at a cost of some £80 per house, and in the spring of this year further measures costing some £227 per house were put in hand. I am assured by my technical officers that when these further repairs have been completed the houses will be rendered reasonably satisfactory. Meantime every effort is being made to speed up the work. I have asked for a full report on the position when the work is finally completed. Claims by the tenants for rebate of rents and compensation for damage to household effects are at present being considered.

Does the Minister still persist in going ahead with houses which, in the opinion of the experts, can never be habitable?

One of my difficulties is to decide between expert and expert. My experts tell me that the houses will be rendered reasonably habitable. I thought I would try to take a balanced view between two sets of experts, and I consulted one or two of the tenants living in the houses. I must say that the balance of the argument, although not strong, is that the houses will be reasonably fit for human habitation.

In reply to my hon. Friend, I visited Clydebank on Saturday and there, in very slight conversation, I found that the people, although not happy about them, did not describe them as unfit for habitation.

Is it intended to initiate a prosecution against the building contractors who are responsible for those houses?

I dealt with this question very fully in the Debate the other night and answered criticisms on it. If my hon. Friend wishes to raise the matter again, it would be better to do so on an occasion when it could be debated fully. It is not easy to answer questions on the subject briefly.

Is the Minister aware that his statement will give some satisfaction to the tenants of these houses who have been subject to intolerable delays by previous administrations, and will he bear in mind the urgency of the compensation question?

I agree that these people have been subject to terrible inconvenience and almost intolerable conditions. I think that in the next few weeks I shall be in a position to secure, not a final agreement, but at least a mitigation of the tenants' conditions.

Will the Minister extend his inquiries in this matter to the city of Aberdeen?

10.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the number of applications made to the Glasgow Corporation for houses; the number of houses in course of erection; the number approved; and the number to be erected during each year for the next five years in the Glasgow area.

Approximately 70,000 applications for houses have been made to Glasgow Corporation. A total of 1,836 permanent houses have been approved this year and the Corporation have been allocated 2,500 temporary houses. Of these,726 permanent and 155 temporary houses are under construction. The Corporation's programme for the next five years is 5,000 permanent and 1,500 temporary houses during the first year; 7,000 permanent and 1,000 temporaries during the second year, and thereafter 10,000 permanent houses annually. In addition, the Corporation have requisitioned 518 properties, providing accommodation for 654 families.

13.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many large houses are standing furnished but unoccupied in Edinburgh; and to what extent have the Edinburgh Corporation used their powers of requisitioning in helping to provide accommodation for this winter.

The information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available, but I am informed that the corporation are making a survey of the unoccupied houses in the city. A total of 45 properties have been requisitioned, including 37 which have been reconstructed to provide 45 separate dwellings for the inadequately housed.

In view of the extremely bad housing conditions which exist in Leith, will the Minister urge upon the corporation the necessity of taking immediate action to relieve this problem?

I cannot interfere with the normal working of the Edinburgh Town Council, but my hon. Friend may take it that nothing will be put in the way of the Council in requisitioning property, provided it is in order to house people who are at present either homeless or inadequately housed.

Teachers' Salaries (University Graduates)

2.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what financial inducements are contemplated to encourage aspirants to the teaching profession to take a university degree.

The National Joint Council to deal with Salaries of Teachers in Scotland, a body representative of education authorities and of the teaching profession, have made recommendations to my right hon. Friend regarding the salaries that should be paid to graduate and to other teachers. These recommendations are embodied in a recently published draft of Regulations which the Secretary of State proposes to make, prescribing the salaries to be paid by education authorities to teachers employed by them. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the draft. Before making the Regulations, regard will be had to the representations on the subject that have been received from education authorities and other persons interested.

School Attendance Prosecutions

6.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent, in the case of an education authority which, in the enforcement of school attendance, appoints its own procurator and bears the whole expenses of the prosecution, including payment of court dues, the fines re- coverable in such prosecutions are payable to the Treasury instead of, as in the past, to the authority; and if he proposes to restore the status quo.

Under the revised arrangements in the Education (Scotland) Act, 1945, all fines imposed in the Sheriff Court are payable to the Exchequer, but under the Summary Jurisdiction Act, the Sheriff may direct that the expenses incurred by the prosecutor shall be met in whole or in part out of any such fine. The answer to the second part of the Question is in the negative.

In view of the state of Business at the end of the last Parliament when this Measure was being put through, will the hon. Gentleman speak to his right hon. Friend and have consultations with the local authorities on the question of the restoration of the status quo?

All I can say is that this is now the Act and we have got to administer it. The only question is whether the Act should be altered or not by further amending legislation. When my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State returns to his duties, I shall be pleased to consult him on the subject.

Agricultural Land (Utilisation)

9.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what measures he is considering for securing the optimum use of agricultural land in Scotland.

In view of the world food shortage it will be necessary to continue for the present the war-time policy of intensive crop production to the fullest extent that is possible with due regard to the productivity of the land, and our labour and other resources. My right hon. Friends the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Secretary of State are giving active consideration to plans for securing on a long-term basis the best and most efficient use of agricultural land and I hope that it may be possible to make a statement about this before long.

Gangs, Glasgow (Police Measures)

11.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give an indication as to the methods employed by Glasgow police to put an end to the terror reigning in certain areas by gangs of youths who have been using weapons; and if he will arrange that selected persons shall visit the parents of known leaders and members of gangs known to the police and warn them of the dangers of a continuance of such violent methods.

I deplore the recent increase in clashes between rival gangs of lads, all of whom are under 19 years of age. The police, using motor patrols equipped with wireless, have dispersed various gatherings and made many arrests, and the courts have imposed salutary sentences. As regards the second part of the Question, I see grave objection to visits in individual cases, but everything possible will be done to bring home to parents and boys generally the folly of gang membership and leadership.

Will the hon. Member state whether or not the absence of the regular police has had any effect on this matter; and has not the Department received representations for the release from the Forces of ordinary police, and would the hon. Member consider speeding-up the process of demolisations.

It so happens that this matter is not quite on my side, but is the concern of my hon. Friend the other Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, who happens to be ill. But apart from that, Glasgow, with its terrible tenement dwellings and crowded population is not easy to deal with. The two problems are, lack of numbers in the police force, and also that a good number of the police are now reaching a fair age for police work. I have already raised the matter with the Home Department and we hope before long to start recruitment for the Glasgow Police Force and also to bring back some of the men from the Forces in order to increase it.

Since my hon. Friend attributes the violence of Glasgow gangs to living in tenement buildings, will he encourage the Glasgow corporation to pursue a policy of decentralisation of population?

My hon. Friend raises a wide question and in the meantime I have enough on my hands to get a few houses built.

Nurses (Salary Scales)

12

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether in view of the serious position in the nursing services and the need for more recruits to nursing, the Scottish Nurses' Salaries Committee are considering a revision of the salary scales of nurses in Scotland.

Yes, Sir. This matter is being given very serious consideration. The Committee is meeting next week to review the position in the light of the difficulties that are being experienced by hospitals and other employing authorities. Unfortunately, Professor T. M. Taylor has felt obliged to resign from the Chairmanship because of pressure of other work. I am glad, however, to announce that Mr. John Wheatley, Advocate, has placed his services at our disposal as Chairman of the Committee. I should like to take this opportunity of expressing our gratitude to Professor Taylor for his invaluable work.

Will my hon. Friend consider, along with the question of salaries, and in order to cope with the very serious problem of nursing, providing greater amenities in the various institutions where the nurses are employed?

I will certainly put before the Committee the suggestion which my hon. Friend has made, or any other suggestion any hon. Member makes to deal with this very important section of the community.

British Army

Overseas Postings

17.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that men in release group 26 are still being dispatched overseas to the Middle East; and whether in view of the shortage of transport, he will take steps to prevent, as far as possible, the posting overseas of men who are likely to be released within the next few months.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for Aston (Major Wyatt) on Tuesday last.

War Graves

18.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether His Majesty's Government is prepared to bring home the bodies of British soldiers buried abroad whose relatives wish to have them interred on British soil.

A full statement on this question was issued to the Press by the Imperial War Graves Commission on 4th October, 1945. I am including a copy of the statement in the Official Report.

As it is generally expected that a statement of this great importance should be made to this House, and as I have not had access to the statement to which my right hon. Friend has referred, may I ask him if it is the intention of the State to bear the cost in cases where the bodies are being transferred for interment in this country?

This is a very long statement and I am sorry I cannot read it to the House, but, generally speaking, the policy of the Imperial War Graves Commission is not to allow the removal of any bodies that have been buried in consecrated cemeteries.

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we had an announcement referring to some statement by the B.B.C., and to-day we have had an announcement referring to a statement made by some outside authority. Is it in Order for a Member of the Government to make an announcement of a statement which is not available within the archives of this House?

The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War made reference to a statement of the War Graves Commission, and that certainly is in Order.

I pointed out that I would circulate the statement in the Official Report.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is some obscurity about the future treatment of the bodies of prisoners of war who died in Germany or enemy-occupied country, and will he get that matter cleared up?

I will make inquiries but I am unaware that there is any difference in the policy in that type of case.

What does the right hon. Gentleman mean by the phrase "generally speaking"? Does that mean that there are exceptions to the rule laid down by the War Graves Commission?

Will the Minister get the Services also to consider making payments for the burial of men who have died as a result of wounds and disease contracted during the war?

I do not know the practice on the matter, but I will give the point my consideration.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is not the fact that the next-of-kin in every case has received a copy of the statement of the Imperial War Graves Commission?

I think that that is the policy, but I would not be sure. As an ex-member of that body, I know that they are very considerate in dealing with the next-of-kin of the men who are interred.

Does the right hon. Gentleman desire the House to understand that the War Graves Commission itself lays down the policy in matters of this sort? Surely it is a Government decision and not one for the War Graves Commission?

No, Sir, the War Graves Commission is only carrying out the policy laid down after a very long Debate in this House.

Following is the statement:

The Governments of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Newfoundland and India have decided, as after the 1914–18 war, that the return of bodies of members of His Majesty's Forces buried overseas to their home lands shall not be undertaken nor allowed and have authorised the Imperial War Graves Commission to issue the following statement:

Since the outbreak of war in 1939 a number of requests have been received from relatives of members of His Majesty's Forces buried overseas that the bodies should be brought back to their native countries for re-burial. Similar requests were made soon after the war of 1914–18. The Imperial War Graves Commission then gave the most careful consideration to all aspects of the problem and in 1918 they issued an announcement of their policy which in the following years, as the results of their work were seen and understood, won general acceptance throughout the Empire. The Commission feel that a restatement of that policy is desirable now that hostilities are over.

To-day, as in 1918, the Commission are the servants of the public in all parts of the British Commonwealth and Empire, and it is their duty to treat with all possible sympathy the desire of the individual relative; but the reasons against any change of their policy appear to them overwhelming. To give effect to even a moderate demand for repatriation would be a task of even greater magnitude than it would have been in 1918; for, though the numbers involved are happily fewer, the graves are far more widely scattered and shipping facilities are practically nonexistent. On the other hand, private repatriation by a few individuals, who could afford the cost, would, be contrary to that equality of treatment which is the underlying principle of the Commission's work and has appealed so strongly to the deepest sentiments of our peoples.

Once again, France has given a generous lead in providing in perpetuity the land required for our cemeteries in that country, and by a like generosity on the part of other Allied Governments, or by provisions in peace treaties, the last resting places of the Empire's dead in foreign lands will be permanently secured. The cemeteries are being laid out and constructed on the model of those of the last war, and, like them, they will be reverently tended by the Commission's own gardeners and be honoured for all time.

The Commission have learnt, from intimate contacts with the relatives during the past twenty-five years, that real consolation is derived from the knowledge that the last resting places of their dead are so honoured and made sure

Dispatch Riders (Speed)

22.

asked the Secretary of State for War why military dispatch riders are still permitted to speed along the crowded streets of cities and the country roads since military urgency no longer is a justification.

All War Office vehicles are required to observe the ordinary speed limits imposed on other road users and, in addition, to keep within certain overriding speed limits on all types of roads.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have listened to that same answer for the last five years; and in view of the tragic statement made by his right hon. Friend the Minister of War Transport yesterday as regards the destruction on the road, will he take some steps to try and enforce a limited speed on Army vehicles, and especially motor cycles?.

I will see what I can do about it, and if the hon. and gallant Gentleman or any hon. Member has any particular case to bring to my notice, I will consider it.

Rations

23.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether it has yet been decided to equalise the rations of the Forces with those received by the civilian population of this country now that war conditions no longer exist.

As already announced, it has been decided, in view of the general food shortage and to assist in maintaining the supplies for the civilian population of this country, to make certain reductions in the overseas Services ration, except in the case of S.E.A.C., with effect from 1st November, 1945. The reduction applies to all three Services. For the same reasons, and with effect from the same date, it has since been decided to revise the Forces home ration scale as a temporary measure. The revised scale provides for reduced issues of the more important items at present in short supply, viz., meat, bacon and sugar.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that very satisfactory reply, may I ask him to what extent civilian rations will be improved as a. result of this concession on the part of the Forces?

Tuberculosis Treatment

24.

asked the Secretary of State for War if, in view of the lack of civilian facilities and the higher ratio of medical staff to personnel in the Army as compared with the civilian population, he will now consider extending full treatment to Servicemen who contract tuberculosis.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for the Isle of Ely (Major Legge-Bourke) on 16th October.

Post-War Strength And Conditions

25.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a statement on the future organisation of, and conditions of service in, the Army.

74.

asked the Secretary of State for War when he will be in a position to announce the conditions of service for the post-war Army.

75.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that many desirable candidates are being deterred from applying for Regular commissions, owing to the un certainty prevailing as to pay, allowances and conditions of service in the post-war Army; and whether he will cause information on these points to be published at the earliest possible moment.

I would refer the hon. and gallant Members to the replies given on Tuesday last to the hon. Members for Kingston-upon-Thames (Major Boyd-Carpenter) and Rugby Mr. W. J. Brown).

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that yesterday's Debate gave no comfort to anybody in these respects, and will he say when he hopes to be in a position to make a statement?

I am afraid I cannot. All I can tell the hon. and gallant Gentleman is that, as he knows and all Service Members know very well, this is a very complicated subject, and I want to be in a position to give a full reply to the House when it is given.

Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply, that no suggestions have been made by the Service chiefs; and is it not notoriously true, that the reason why there has been no decision is because the Government cannot make up their own mind?

No, Sir; it is nothing of the kind. The fact is that there has been a good deal done on this subject, and we are working very hard on it, but it is a very complicated subject, and deals not only with officers but also with other ranks. I want to be in a position to make a full statement to the House.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the first part of Question No. 75, which asks about many candidates being deterred from applying for commissions owing to uncertainty? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, at the end of the last war, this delay was one of the principal causes why we lost a great many desirable officers, who could not wait any longer for the conditions to be laid down?

I am well aware that there are thousands who would be influenced, in taking commissions, by the conditions which will be laid down, and, therefore, they are not yet taking the commissions, but I can assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that we are going to do better in this matter in this war, than was done on the last occasion.

Executed Soldiers (Widows' Claims)

27.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will arrange for widows of serving soldiers, whose husbands have been executed for committing a criminal offence, to receive the gratuities and post-war credits to which their husbands were entitled prior to committing the offence.

War gratuity is not admissible in respect of soldiers executed by sentence of a military or civil court. Post-war credit is not subject to this disqualification and would be disposed of as part of the soldier's personal estate. I am, however, looking into this question and will write to my hon. Friend in due course.

Requisitioned Property, Northern Ireland

28.

asked the. Secretary of State for War whether, owing to the pressing nature of the housing problem in Northern Ireland, he will arrange that all houses no longer required for the Army will be derequisitioned at once and release requisitioned houses as they are vacated by the military for civilian occupation.

Will my right hon. Friend consider the early de-requisitioning of these houses, because the problem in Northern Ireland is very serious?

I must say that the figures I have already given to the hon. Gentleman, show that we are not doing so badly in this matter on the whole.

Castle Camp, Inverary (Conditions)

29.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware of the bad living conditions for troops at Castle Camp, Inverary, Argyllshire, Scotland; and whether he will take steps to remedy this state of affairs.

This is a normal Nissenhutted camp and is in good condition. Apart from the fact that it is situated in a somewhat exposed position, I am not aware that the general conditions are inferior to those existing in many similar camps in the United Kingdom. In view of the natural pressure on my Department to release requisitioned buildings, this camp, like most others, may have to be used for some considerable time.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it rains a great deal in Scotland, and that, on these occasions, the rain pours through the roof of this camp; that there are no shelves or lockers provided for the men, and that separate beds are not provided? Does he regard such conditions as desirable now the war is over?

All I can say is that Nissen huts are in no sense permanent structures, and, as soon as it becomes possible to release camp accommodation, this type of structure is regarded as among the first to be disposed of.

Why does not the War Office put the troops in the castle, which is a lovely place, and let the duke and his family live in the camp?

Cannot some temporary improvement be made in the conditions of the men at this camp?

Release Application

30.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is now prepared to recommend the release from the Army of Captain Clokey, details of whose case have already been sent to him and whose release has been requested by the Ministry of Health.

I have no authority to deal with individual applications for release in Class B. Such applications are made through the sponsoring Department, in this case the Ministry of Health, to the Ministry of Labour and National Service, and are passed to my Department for action if approved and within the permitted quota. I have not, so far, received any request from the Ministry of Labour and National Service for release in this case.

Polish Units (British Cooks)

31.

asked the Secretary of State for War what is the present number of British troops employed on cooking and other similar duties for Polish Forces in this country; how many British troops per 1,000 Poles are so employed; and whether arrangements can now be made for British soldiers to be diverted from work of this kind, in view of the general shortage of labour.

Polish units in this country are administratively self-contained and no British troops are employed as cooks or on similar duties. Individual Poles who have elected immediate return to Poland have been transferred to transit camps under British Command and control. Even at these camps, however, the Polish repatriates provide men to carry out all their own domestic duties, including cooking. The British cooks and other duty men at the camps are employed in looking after the British permanent staff. The only instances where British troops would be employed on tasks of this nature for Poles are when Polish troops are allotted vacancies to attend British Army courses.

Is the Minister aware that, in Oxfordshire, in a transit camp for Poles, there are 164 British troops employed for 1,000 Poles, who have nothing to do except wander aimlessly about the countryside?

Training Area, Imber

32.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is now able to state the intentions of his Department with regard to the return of the civilian population to the village of Imber in Wiltshire.

With the exception of five properties, including the church, the Imber battle training area, including Imber village, is the property of the War Department. Large sums of public money were spent on acquiring it for military training and it is in fact the only large infantry battle training area owned by the War Department. All the letting agreements in Imber contained a provision enabling the War Department to determine the tenancy if, inter alia, the property was required for naval, military or air force purposes. In other words, all the lettings were subject to the requirements of military training. Notice was duly given. The War Department's tenants, therefore, were not dispossessed by requisition under the Defence Regulations but under a resumption clause which has always formed part of the agreements by which they occupied their farms. The future of Imber village depends upon the type and intensity of the training allotted to the area in the post-war programme and I am not yet in a position to announce any decision on that point.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I know of the conditions under which the population were there, but in considering this question will he bear in mind that there is an agricultural interest involved, that there is very good housing in the village, and that quite a considerable number of people are anxious to get back to their homes? Whilst I do not want to prejudice any decision he may reach, I hope he will bear those facts in mind and come to a decision as soon as he can conveniently do so.

It is for that reason that I have been rather reluctant to arrive at a decision on this matter before I have looked at the question as a whole.

Civilian Clothing Issue

33.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider making a grant of money or additional civilian clothing to men who came out of the Army before the improved issue of civilian clothing came into operation in October last.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to the hon. Member for Southend-on-Sea (Mr. Channon) on Tuesday last.

Does not the Minister think it is time that justice was done to the men who gave their services earlier in this war before decent conditions had been obtained for the Service men by pressure from Labour Members?

Overseas Postings

34.

asked the Secretary of State for War what is the maximum age or demobilisation group beyond which a soldier is not posted for service overseas.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for Chichester (Lieut.-Commander Joynson-Hicks) on 16th October last.

Burma Star

35.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many men who served in the Chindit campaigns in Burma are not eligible for the Burma Star.

I regret that figures are not available and could not be obtained without a disproportionate amount of labour. The verification of claims is continuously going on.

Is it not a fact that some of these men are not eligible for the Burma Star, and does not my right hon. Friend think that some very special exception ought to be made in these cases? Will he undertake to investigate the matter?

It is very difficult to give a definite decision upon any particular case in regard to this question. I have made very close inquiries, and there is a continual investigation going on with regard to each case, and that is the most I can say to my hon. and gallant Friend.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that this was one of the questions that cropped up at his meetings in Burma with the men out there recently—

—that he undertook to raise with the Cabinet on his return, and that the men are relying on him to keep his word?

I am very well aware that there is very strong feeling upon this question and indeed upon all questions affecting Burma.

Stakehill Military Detention Barracks (Inquiry)

36.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has yet received the proceedings of the court of inquiry on the conditions at the Stakehill Military Detention Barracks; and whether he has any statement to make.

No, Sir. But I understand that the court of inquiry proceedings on the individual case, which were suspended pending the result of the inquest, have now been completed and are being forwarded to the War Office. As already promised I will make a statement regarding this establishment when my inquiries are fully completed.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the relations not only of men who are serving sentences in these detention barracks, but of men in detention barracks all over the country, are extremely concerned about the stories that have been given out that a man committed suicide there recently? Will he treat the matter as one of urgent public importance and make a statement on the whole question of detention barracks as soon as possible?

Pending the result of the enquiry being received, would my right hon. Friend make certain inquiries himself, as they are necessary to allay public anxiety in this respect?

There is reason for very close investigation into this particular case and I think there will be need for a very comprehensive report. When I get that report the House shall have a statement in any case.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether this was purely a Service court of inquiry or whether anyone else was represented on it?

So far as my memory goes, though I would not say for certain, I think there were other than Service people on this court.

Do I understand that my right hon. Friend intends other alleged difficulties in that camp to be investigated apart from the specific case?

Demobilisation

37.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is yet in a position to make a statement about the demobilisation of men in the Radio Security Service at reduced rates of pay and allowances for the period of release leave.

A number of soldiers were enlisted for or transferred to the Radio Security Service for employment on special duties. During that employment, they were paid by that Service at special consolidated rates of pay in lieu of the normal Army pay and allowances. When such soldiers become due for release under the ordinary Release Scheme, they are returned to Army service for the purposes of release, and they are consequently granted the normal pay and allowances of their rank during release leave. As they have finally ceased to do duty with the Radio Security Service, it is not considered that the special rates of pay applicable to that service should continue. It is the normal practice for special rates granted for the performance of special duties to cease from the beginning of release leave, and there are no grounds for an exception in favour of this particular class of men.

41.

asked the Secretary of State for War if members of the A.E.C. are eligible for release under Class B in order to resume teaching at the request of the Ministry of Education.

Yes, Sir. As regards the release of teachers generally, I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the reply given on 16th October to a Question by the hon. Member for Henley (G. Fox). The releases are, of course, subject to military requirements, and in view of the importance to the nation of the Army Education Scheme and the need for a sufficiency of Army Educational Corps personnel in this connection it is not in every case possible to spare members of this Corps as Class B releases.

Whilst I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there must be a priority for the Army, would he make it clear to the men themselves, because several have been sent to India in the last three weeks, and they are suffering from a sense of frustration because they think they are eligible under the "B" scheme to be released at home?

I am sorry to hear that it is not clear to these men, and I will take the necessary steps to see that it is brought to their notice.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of these qualified teachers who are being posted to India are in Groups 27 and 28, and are being kept hanging about doing nothing at depots for very long periods of time, awaiting postings to units?

Is the Minister aware of the great dissatisfaction among the very large number of bona fide teachers who are not being asked for by local education authorities, and who have no means of getting release under Class B?

Is the Minister also aware that there are still in the Army qualified teachers, with up to 10 years' experience as schoolmasters, who are not employed by the A.E.C. or in any capacity a teacher, but are doing scullion jobs?

Personnel, Austria (Air Transport)

38.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider in consultation with the Secretary of State for Air, the introduction of a daily direct Transport Command air service between Vienna and London to serve British troops in Austria, thus by-passing the present circuitous route via Udine, Naples and Marseilles.

A twice-weekly R.A.F. Transport Command service to Vienna via Munich was commenced on 14th September, 1945, and has proved adequate for the present demands. All services are constantly under review by the Air Ministry and recommendations are made, wherever necessary, by Air Priorities Joint Staff to the London Air Transport Priorities Board.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the vast majority of Service travellers still have to go by a more Southerly route around Naples on their way from Austria to London, and is not this solely in order to keep the headquarters at Naples in being?

Camps (Accommodation)

39.

asked the Secretary of State for War approximately how many camps and other institutions capable of accommodating 500 men or more he has had at his disposal at any time since the ending of hostilities.

The information is not readily available in the War Office and will necessitate considerable investigation. Inquiries are being made, and I will inform the hon. and learned Member of the result as soon as possible.

Cyprus (Disturbances)

40.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has any statement to make about the incidents in Cyprus on 4th October when Indian troops were set to fight Cypriot troops; and whether, in view of the effect on Indian and Cypriot public opinion of these bodies of troops being set to fight against each other after fighting together against Fascism in the war, he will take steps to avoid further incidents by remedying the grievances of the Cypriot troops.

In recent weeks there has been a series of minor disturbances among Cypriot troops awaiting embarkation for foreign service after having had home leave. These demonstrations have been for the expedition of demobilisation and against further service overseas. Incidents have been evoked by these de- monstrations, and full inquiries as to the nature and causes of these incidents are now being made. When the report on these inquiries has been received I will write to the hon. and learned Member.

Territorial Badges

44.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether officers and men of the Territorial Army, who are so entitled, may resume the wearing of the "T" (Territorial), or "Y" (Yeomanry) badges as before the war.

No, Sir. It would be premature to authorise the restoration of these badges until more information is available as to the future of the Auxiliary Forces. There are also practical difficulties.

Is the Minister aware that the question of the future of the Territorial Army has nothing to do with this particular case, and that the Territorial Army, before the war, gave up their leisure in order to train themselves for military service?

Can the Minister tell us the reason for the differentiation between his Department and the Air Ministry? Is he aware that those employed in a part-time temporary capacity before the war were allowed to use the letter "A" on their uniforms during war-time service? Why cannot a similar right be exercised in the Territorial Army?

Is not the Minister also aware that it was the practice when I left the Army for Territorial soldiers to remove the "T's" from their shoulders and secrete them under the lapels of their coats, so that it is not a difficult matter to put the "T's" back again?

That docs not indicate that they want to wear the letter publicly. I should be rather sorry if that was the case.

Dutch East Indies And Indochina (British Casualties)

26.

asked the Secretary of State for War what the total casualties have been, to the latest convenient date, in the recent disturbances following the liberation of French and Dutch territories in the Far East; and how many of these have been in the British Forces involved.

Complete figures are not available, but the following British and Indian casualties in the recent disturbances were reported up to 14th October, 1945: In French Indo-China: 1 British officer and 40 Indian other ranks.

In Java (all in the Batavia Area): 1 British officer, 1 Viceroy commissioned officer and 1 British other rank.

Sumatra: None.

Ex-Prisoners Of War And Internees, Java

asked the Secretary of State for War how many British prisoners of war were believed to be in Java at the time of the Japanese capitulation; how many have since been rescued; and whether there is any information available as to the condition of the remainder.

At the time of their surrender the Japanese reported that all the British prisoners of war in Java were concentrated in Batavia. Reports received from ALFSEA stated that there were 1,389 prisoners of war and civilian internees from the United Kingdom in Java at that time. Reports so far received indicate that in all 1,416 United Kingdom personnel have been evacuated from Java on the first stage of their journey home, and it is now reported that there are no British ex-prisoners of war remaining in Java. The second part of the Question does not, therefore, arise.

Palestine (Government Policy)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether, before announcing the Government's decision on Palestinian policy, he will agree to the immediate dispatch of a Parliamentary Commission to investigate the situation on the spot; to make contacts with the principal protagonists; and to report to this House.

Perhaps the hon. and gallant Member would await the statement which will be made in the near future.

Would it not be more to the point if the right hon. Gentleman took his courage in both hands, and acted on the principles previously enunciated by his party leaders and by the Leader of the present Opposition?

Could the right hon. Gentleman define a little more closely what is meant by, "in the near future"? Does it mean next week, the week after or this time next year?

It will be very soon, but I cannot give an exact date. The Noble Lord will realise that I want to give it at the right moment, and that I am not yet clear as to the exact day.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the utterances of the Leader of the Opposition on this matter have been completely contradictory?

Pending the making of this statement will the right hon. Gentleman see that any broadcast given on the question of Palestine will be carefully vetted so that there shall be no mis-statements similar to those made on Friday evening, which were quite contrary in some respects to the declarations made by various important Ministers in this House?

I have no information about that broadcast; I am not aware that the Government made any broadcast.

United Kingdom War Effort (White Paper)

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will give instructions for the publication, at such time as he may think desirable, of a supplement to Cmd. 6564, Statistics Relating to the War Effort of the United Kingdom.

I propose to lay before the House shortly a White Paper giving figures showing the strengths of the Armed Forces and Auxiliary Services and the casualties sustained by them during the war. This will cover an aspect of the United Kingdom war effort details of which had to be omitted on grounds of security from the White Paper (Cmd. 6564) published last year. In the interval since the publication of that White Paper individual Departments have released a large amount of information supplementing and bringing up-to-date the statistics given in it and, while I do not wish to rule out the possibility of publishing a revised version, it is perhaps doubtful whether there is a sufficient demand to justify this at the present time. I contemplate, however, that at a later date, when all the necessary material has been collected, a volume of statistics relating to the war should be published.

Atomic Energy (Uranium Deposits)

47.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the need for research into the possibilities of atomic energy, he will cause immediate steps to be taken to open and explore existing known deposits of uranium ore in this country and to search for additional deposits in order to save purchases of this metal from overseas and to be ready to take advantage of any future developments for its industrial use.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the House will have an opportunity of debating this subject?

British Personnel, Germany (Conditions Of Service)

48.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will amend the present conditions of service for British personnel serving in Germany under the Commission of Control in order that they may be made more attractive to those who would wish to make their career in this most important service and who are at present discouraged from doing so by the uncertainty regarding its future.

Yes, Sir. Improved conditions of service have been settled and will shortly be published. In particular, appointments will be offered for a period of seven years, and compensation will be paid in the event of employment being terminated at an earlier date for reasons of redundancy.

National Finance

War Damage Compensation

49.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the hardship caused by the delay in making payments of war damage value payment claims on houses destroyed by enemy action, he will authorise the interest upon such payments, as provided by the War Damage Acts, to be paid without further delay.

Section 10 (5) of the War Damage Act, 1943, provides that interest on a value payment shall be payable when that payment is discharged. There is no power under the Act to authorise an earlier payment.

Is the Minister aware that people who have lost their houses will have to wait for many years, and that a small contribution from him would be welcome?

Yes, but the law does not permit that and we have a lot of amendments to the law to make which are more important than this.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider, when dealing with these amendments, the difficulties that arise when a person has mortgaged his house and has to pay a larger interest in respect of the mortgage than that which is allowed under the war damage scheme?

I shall be glad to keep the matter under review but it is difficult, under the present law, to do what hon. Members wish.

50

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, where building materials forming part of war damaged houses are looted through delay in granting licences to carry out the necessary first-aid repairs, such loss may be included in war damage claims.

55.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects to introduce the Bill, promised by his predecessor, Kingsley Wood, dealing with war damage contributions from public utility undertakings.

Not at present. I am trying to simplify this Bill now that the risk of further war damage has disappeared.

Service Pay (Income Tax)

51.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the accumulated pay accrued to Service personnel who have been prisoners of war is subjected to Income Tax

The Service pay of members of the United Kingdom Forces who have been prisoners of war was liable to United Kingdom Income Tax in the same way as the pay of members of those Forces who were serving abroad.

In view of the hardship which the small man is suffering would the Minister give the matter his consideration?

I do not know whether, on principle, we can justify giving a tax concession to officers and other ranks who were captured, as against those who were not captured.

54.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will exclude from personal income tax assessments the 56 days' leave pay now being given to all Servicemen on demobilisation, as the inclusion of this pay in an individual's taxable income is a deterrent to his taking up remunerative employment before his leave pay ceases.

I have no power to do this under the existing law, and I doubt whether the deterrent to which the hon. and gallant Member refers is a factor of great practical importance.

Will the Minister not make the welcome announcement that he will withdraw the tax from all pay?

Bank Of England

52,53, and 59.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) if he will now arrange for a list of all stockholders in the Bank of England to be published, stating the amount of each holding and the amount of Government stock which each such stockholder will receive on the proposed nationalisation of the Bank of England;

(2) whether the accounts of the Bank of England for the last 20 years, upon the basis of which it is proposed that compensation should be assessed on the nationalisation of the Bank of England, can now be published for consideration by this House;

(3) what proportion of the gross income of the Bank of England, in each of the last 20 years, was attributable to work done or service rendered by the Bank of England for or on behalf of His Majesty's Government.

With the permission of the hon. Member I should prefer to deal with these Questions when I move the Second Reading of the Bank of England Bill.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the House should be presented with the facts I have asked for, and that the whole House would like to have them before the Bank of England Bill is read a Second time? I am sure that not only the whole House but the public generally would like to know who are the stockholders we are going to compensate so handsomely.

It would cost a lot in printing, because there are more than 17,000 of them.

Could my right hon. Friend say whether there are any nominee holders in the Bank of England, and will he ascertain whom these nominees represent?

Pound Sterling (Purchasing Power)

56.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, taking the purchasing power of the £ in 1900 as 100, he will state the corresponding figure at the latest available date; and the figure calculated for the whole field of personal expenditure.

According to the best calculations available, the figure for September, 1945, is 45. Calculated over the whole field of personal expenditure, the figure for September 1945, would probably be about 40.

Purchase Tax

58.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in the interests of keeping the rent of permanent houses as low as possible, he will apply the same condition of freedom from Purchase Tax on kitchen furniture fitments to be used in permanent houses as at present applies to temporary houses.

National Expenditure (Economy)

61.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he proposes to set up a special economy committee similar to the Geddes Committee after the last war.

Nationalisation (Capital Cost)

62.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer to what extent he in tends to restrict private investment in order to provide funds for investment in Government loans to pay for the capital cost of nationalisation.

The hon. Member should not assume that loans of new money will be required to pay for the capital cost of nationalisation. No such loans will be needed, for example, in the case of the Bank of England.

Service Personnel, Eire (Taxation)

63

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in view of the decision of the Eire Government to tax all allowances paid by Britain to members of His Majesty's Forces from Eire, which decision being retrospective is causing hard ship and inconvenience, he will consider making some form of taxation relief to members of the Forces so affected.

These allowances are not charged to United Kingdom Income Tax and I cannot, therefore, give tax relief in respect of them.

Social Services (Expenditure)

67.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the annual expenditure in 1913 and at the latest available date respectively, on social services.

For 1942 and 1943 I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) on 14th December last. Figures for 1913 are not available, but the comparable figure for 1910 was £62,817,000.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that a Geddes Committee should be set up at once to cut down some of this expenditure?

Is it not the case that had it not been for the expenditure on social services, the population of this country would have been depleted by now?

Bretton Woods Agreement

64.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the undertaking given by his predecessor, and repeated by himself, that no decision would be taken on Bretton Woods until this House had been consulted, still holds good.

May I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is satisfied that both Lord Keynes and Lord Halifax understand this?

Lend-Lease And Reciprocal Aid

65.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in the assessment of the services rendered by America and Britain under Lend-Lease and reverse Lend-Lease respectively, any monetary valuation has been placed on the facilities extended to the American fighting Forces for the use of the Mulberry harbours, of the Pluto undersea pipeline, and of the fog-dispelling device; and have such valuations been incorporated into the accounts.

The cost of the Mulberry Harbour which was built for the use of the U.S. Forces will be estimated and included in our Reciprocal Aid records. The costs of developing and producing the Pluto undersea pipeline and the fog-dispelling device have not been included in these records, since they were used jointly by the British and American Forces. Where, however, expenditure in connection with the use of these devices clearly arises out of American requirements, such expenditure is charged as Reciprocal Aid.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we want more publicity on this matter, particularly for the edification of our American friends, who do not seem to know much about it?

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Mulberry Harbour referred to in his answer is not the one at Arromanches but the one that fell down in a storm and was not in fact used—the one in the American sector?

Government Departments (Staffs)

68.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury how many permanent and temporary civil servants were employed on 30th June and 30th September respectively.

On 1st July, 1945, the number of established non-industrial civil servants in all Departments (including reserved and agency services in Northern Ireland) was 201,180; the number of whole-time un-established non-industrial staff was 465,801, and of part-timers,96,729. I regret that the corresponding figures for 1st October, 1945, have not yet been returned by the Departments, but I will send the hon. Member the figures when they become available.

69.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the number of persons now employed in the Public Relations and Press departments in every Government Department, with the total cost of this provision.

The information asked for by the hon. Member is not immediately available. I will circulate the particulars in the Official Report in due course.

House Of Commons Library (Strangers)

I think it would be for the general convenience of all Members that the Library should be closed to strangers on the days when the House is sitting. If that meets with the approval of the House, I will give instructions to that effect.

Bank Of England Bill

Standing Orders Applicable Thereto Complied With

laid upon the Table, —Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, pursuant to Order [11th October], That in the case of the Bank of England Bill, the Standing Orders which are applicable thereto have been complied with.

Financial Statement (Supplementary) (October, 1945)

Statement ordered, "of Changes in Taxation as proposed by Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.—[ Mr. Glenvil Hall.]

Statement presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 12.]

Message From The Lords

That they have agreed to—

Coatbridge and Springburn Elections (Validation) Bill, without Amendment.

Chairmen's Panel

in pursuance of Standing Order No. 80 (4), has nominated Mr. Douglas and Colonel Ropner to be additional members of the Chairmen's Panel during this Session.

Business Of The House

Proceedings of the Committee of Ways and Means exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House).—[ The Prime Minister.]

Orders Of The Day

Ways And Means

Considered in Committee.

[Major Milner in the Chair]

Financial Statement

3.18 p.m.

Since my predecessor made his Budget statement last April, great changes have occurred. The British people have celebrated first, VE-Day and then, VJ-Day. They have also elected a new Parliament. It is in this changed world that I open to-day a supplementary or interim Budget. This is the third time within the last six years that a Chancellor of the Exchequer has found it necessary to do this. In September, 1939, Lord Simon had to revise his Budget of the previous April to take account of the outbreak of the world war. In July, 1940, after the formation of the all-party Government under the leadership of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wood-ford (Mr. Churchill)—a Government whose name and whose luster will forever shine forth from the pages of our history—following this event, and the immediate sharp impetus this new Government gave to the war effort, the late Kingsley Wood introduced a supplementary Budget, which further stepped up the war-time increase in taxation. I present a supplementary Budget this Autumn, on the morrow of great victories. Yet my task, in some respects, is harder than those of my predecessors

In the war years, menaced as we were by the most powerful and brutal enemy that this country has ever had to face in all her long history, all sections of the nation played their full part. The burdens borne by the general body of the taxpayers were light indeed compared with burdens of another sort which fell, in battle and in blitz, upon our fighting men on all fronts, by land and sea and air, upon our merchant seamen and upon great numbers of civilians in this country. Yet measured by the standards of pre-war taxation these burdens of war-time taxation were indeed heavy, and they were most patiently and most patriotically borne by all. Now, as we turn the first page of a new chapter, there is a most widespread and natural desire for tax reduction. There is likewise a desire, not less widespread nor less natural, for increased expenditure upon the social services—upon housing, health and education and many other social objects. Over the years immediately ahead, within the five-year lifetime of this Parliament, I hope we shall be able to go far to satisfy both these desires. Towards these ends His Majesty's Government, with the support, I hope, and the encouragement of this House of Commons, will shape their policy and make their five-year plan.

We are now in a transition period, marked by many special, though I hope transitory, dangers. In particular we must all be resolute against inflation; we must increase the production of peace-time goods as rapidly as possible, and we must be prepared to hold back purchasing power until it is safe to release it, until there are enough goods to buy. It is a contrast from the old pre-war situation. In the old days, in those ignominious years, as many of us deemed them, between the two wars, our purchasing power often fell short of our productive power. Because men had not enough money to buy each other's products, those who made those products were thrown into unemployment, and the products were not made. Deficiency of purchasing power, particularly among the poorest and among those whose needs were greatest, led to deficiency of production, and hence to ever-increasing poverty and unemployment. Those were the days of deflation and defeatism.

National Savings Movement

But to-day we have moved on. To-day the situation is in many respects the exact reverse. The danger now is lest too much money should run after too few goods. Hence, if I may here interpolate, the great importance of the National Savings Movement. I would wish to pay my tribute here, not for the first time, to all those who have contributed and are still contributing to the success of the National Savings Movement, to the 600,000 volun-

tary workers in that movement all over the country, and to those who have led and organised this movement and inspired it through difficult years. Here I would mention what can only be a few names chosen out of many, among others Lord Kindersley, Lord Alness—who has done so much in Scotland—Lord Mottistone, Harold Mackintosh, Mr. George Gibson, ex-Chairman of the General Council of the Trade Union Congress, and Mr. Harold Parkinson—[ Interruption]—and the Noble Viscount, who gave Swanage a chance to show what it could do, even against the grain of aristocratic misguidance

Having apportioned this well-deserved praise, let me add that by far the best defence against inflation in present conditions is large and continuous saving by all sections of our people. Later, I hope that this need will gradually become less urgent, as production expands and develops. But to-day, and for some years to come, it remains an imperative duty on each of us, whatever the size of our income, whatever our occupation, to save all that we can and lend it to the Government. I would add that price controls are also essential. Strong price controls must be retained and enforced, and, if need be, must be strengthened and extended. Our aim is that purchasing power and productive power should always march in step. Otherwise we shall fall into one or other of the twin evils of deflation or inflation.

Cost Of Living

This leads me to speak for a moment or two about the cost of living. I have decided to hold the present cost of living steady until further notice, even if this means an increase in the necessary Exchequer subsidies. But I would add that I am making inquiries whether we cannot hold the cost of living steady at a lower cost in total subsidies, whether we cannot here and there discover economies in the administration of these subsidies as they are now operated.

On the main point of holding the cost of living steady, there can be no question—I am sure that my predecessor will agree with this, because he handled this policy for several years—that this policy of keeping down the prices of the basic necessaries of life, which was begun in 1941 and continued until now, has achieved a remarkable measure of success in stabilising the level of costs and prices over a wide range of the ordinary person's current expenditure. This has helped to engender an almost unconscious sense of stability in people's minds, which was no small asset to the country during the strenuous and anxious days of the war. People's minds were not haunted this time, as they were in the last war, with the fear that prices would go sky high out of control, and by the fear that all the articles in their everyday expenditure would go on constantly rising and constantly outstripping the resources of their slender incomes. That fear has been banished by this policy, pursued by the Coalition Government since 1941, and it has been of great advantage to our people, both actually and in its psychological effect upon their minds.

Subsidies

There has been very little variation in most prices of the necessaries of life in the last four years. That has been a great boon to all pensioners and to all other persons living upon fixed, and especially upon small fixed money incomes. It should not be under-estimated in current discussion on future policy. These subsidies, operated in the way I am describing, have been and are still a most timely grant-in-aid to every household budget in the land. They might indeed be described as a heavy load of indirect taxation in reverse, because that is what they arc. But this policy has not only kept down the prices of the foodstuffs and the other goods which have been subsidised by the Exchequer. It has also helped to restrain any disproportionate increase in wage rates which, if it had occurred, might have disturbed the whole balance of our economic life, and might have sucked us into the fatal whirlpool of inflation.

Wage Rates

Here I wish to pay a tribute to the steadiness and good sense which the trade unions and their leaders have shown during the war in this regard, and also to the great value of the voluntary joint machinery of wage negotiations and industrial negotiations generally in all the principal industries. Wage rates, as figures show, have climbed steadily all the time, and that has been right; yet there has been no break-away rise, no uncontrolled rise such as we might easily have seen had it not been for this continuing co-operation between the Government—in this case the Coalition Government—and the trade unions, both recognising that the common interest was best served by this joint effort of the two parties to keep prices and wages on an even keel.

Price Stabilisation

So much for the past. Looking to the near future, in this transitional period I believe that this policy of price stabilisation will be even more important than it has been during the war. In the uncertain conditions which are inevitable during the period of switch-over from war to peace economy, when there will be big shifts of employment from one industry to another, I have decided that we must hold to this policy even more firmly than was contemplated by my predecessor. He announced in his Budget Speech of 1944, and repeated in his Budget Speech last April, that the ceiling of 30 per cent. above pre-war, which had previously been maintained, was to be raised to 35 per cent. above pre-war, and he indicated that he expected a rise towards this higher figure to take place during the present year. This has already happened. During the summer the cost-of-living index rose at one time to 33½per cent. above the pre-war level. It has since fallen, and now stands at about 31 per cent. My intention is that for the next year at least, and until further notice, we should seek to hold the index where it is now, and that we should not allow it to vary from the present level by more than an insignificant amount. Whatever may have been thought right a year ago under the Coalition Government, in this reconversion period we should, in my view, keep a firmer grip than even before on the cost of living.

I should like to give the Committee a few actual examples of the effect of this policy on particular prices. Bread, now costing 9d. for a 4lb. loaf, would, without subsidy, cost 1s. 1d. Potatoes, now costing 8¼d. for 7lb., would, without subsidy, cost 11d. Eggs, now 2s. dozen [ Laughter] would, without subsidy, cost 3s. 6d. Home-killed meat, without subsidy, would rise, on the average, by 4d. a lb. These are illustrations of the way in which prices are being held down

by this policy below the prices which otherwise would prevail, with widely distributed social advantage. But having said this, I must emphasise that no-one should under-estimate the cost which this policy will throw upon the national finances. Last year, the cost-of-living subsidies were costing the Exchequer about £200,000,000 a year. This figure has already risen by a formidable amount. It was already running at the rate of £250,000,000 a year before Lend-Lease was terminated.

Lend-Lease Termination

We cannot yet indicate with any precision the increase of cost which we must expect as a result of the termination of Lend-Lease. It will depend, to some extent, on how far and how quickly we can switch our sources of supply to non-dollar markets; but it is already clear that the increase in the cost of subsidies due to this cause alone—the cessation of Lend-Lease—will not be less than £50,000,000 a year. I must ask the Committee, therefore, seriously to face the fact that whereas in earlier years we have been concerned with a figure which was creeping up towards £200,000,000 a year, the figure we must now reckon with is at least £300,000,000 a year; and I must add that the actual figure may prove to be considerably higher, especially if the decision which I have just announced to hold prices substantially at their present level has to be carried out in face of still rising costs.

So much for the cost of living. I have referred to the sudden ending of Lend-Lease, which has, of course, created for us a serious immediate problem in relation to our balance of trade. As the Committee know, talks have for some time been proceeding at Washington between representatives of the United Kingdom and the United States Governments. Not everything written in the Press on the subject of these talks should be believed. None the less, they have not yet reached even a provisional conclusion, and I do not propose to make any further statement on them to-day, though I should mention them in this context. But I can tell the Committee—and the Committee will desire to know this—that with regard to all the matters under discussion at Washington we are keeping, and shall keep, in close touch with the Dominions and with the Government of India. Meanwhile, pending a settlement at Washington, it is more than ever urgent to stimulate British exports and, on the other side of the balance sheet, to restrict, to the minimum necessary to assure our essential supplies of food and raw materials, imports, especially those which must be paid for with dollars. Whatever the outcome of the Washington talks we must make all possible efforts, the most vigorous efforts, the most imaginative efforts of which private enterprise shall be proved capable, to re-establish as quickly as we can the balance of our external trade. Until this is done we shall not, in truth, be the masters of our own economic and financial destiny. For this reason we must do this great job soon, and recover equilibrium as rapidly as may be.

Interest Rates

I should like now to deal with two questions of general financial policy. The first is the question of interest rates. In the Debate on the Address on 21st August, I said that I was exploring future possibilities in the field of cheaper money and lower interest rates. I had in mind the possibility of reducing not only the debt charge in the Budget, for that is of great importance, but also the cost of borrowing by industry and by public bodies, including local authorities. There is no sense, or so it seems to me—I hope no high authority will differ from me—in paying more than we must for the loan of money; and I have endeavoured to do my utmost to bring these rates down. I shall say a word in detail in a moment.

The problem differs accordingly as we are dealing with short-term or long-term borrowing, and I have begun by concentrating my attention and my efforts on the short-term rates. On the present volume of the Floating Debt, composed, as the Committee will realise, of Treasury Bills, Treasury Deposit Receipts and Ways and Means Advances, the annual interest charge to the Exchequer is£66,000,000 a year, or was so running till last Friday