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Clause 97—(Special Provisions As To Railway And Canal Pension Funds, Etc)

Volume 436: debated on Wednesday 30 April 1947

The text on this page has been created from Hansard archive content, it may contain typographical errors.

Amendment proposed: In page 99, line 3, to leave out "obligations and."—[ Mr. Barnes.]

On a point of Order. Is there no means of stopping this farcical procedure? [Interruption.]

The House has declared by vote that this procedure shall be carried out, and one cannot challenge it now. I am simply obeying the orders of the House, and it is no good rising to points of Order.

Further to that point of Order. I had not finished it before I was interrupted. May I finish it, because I feel that the House is being brought to a great deal of ridicule, and the Government as well? Is there no means of stopping it?

Division No. 167.]

AYES.

[10.25 p.m

Adams, Richard (Balham)Chater, D.Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.)
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South)Chetwynd, G. R.Follick, M.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V.Clitherow, Dr. RFoot, M. M.
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth)Cobb, F. A.Forman, J. C.
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe)Cocks, F. S.Foster, W. (Wigan)
Alpass, J. H.Coldrick, W.Freeman, Maj. J. (Watford)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)Collindridge, F.Freeman, Peter (Newport)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.Collins, V. J.Gaitskell, H. T. N.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B.Comyns, Dr. L.Gallacher, W.
Bacon, Miss A.Cook, T. F.Ganley, Mrs. C. S.
Baird, J.Cooper, Wing-Comdr. G.Gibbins, J.
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. JCorbet, Mrs. F. K. (Camb'well, N.W.)Gibson. C. W
Barstow, P. G.Corlett, Dr. J.Gilzean, A.
Barton, C.Crossman, R. H. SGooch, E. G.
Battley, J. R.Daggar, G.Goodrich, H. E.
Bechervaise, A. EDaines, P.Gordon-Walker, P. C.
Benson, G.Davies, Edward (Burslem)Granville, E. (Eye)
Berry, H.Davies, Ernest (Enfield)Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Wakefield)
Beswick, F.Davies, Harold (Leek)Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood)
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale)Davies, Haydn (St. Pancras, S.W.)Grenfell, D. R.
Bing, G. H. C.Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)Grey, C. F.
Binns, J.Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Grierson, E.
Blenkinsop, ADeer, G.Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley)
Blyton, W. RDelargy, H. J.Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly)
Boardman, H.Diamond, J.Griffiths, W. D. (Moss Side)
Bottomley, A. G.Dobbie, W.Guest, Dr. L. Haden
Bowden, Flg.-Offr. H. W.Dodds, N N.Gunter, R. J.
Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton)Driberg, T. E. N.Guy, W. H.
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge)Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich)Haire, John E. (Wycombe)
Braddock, T. (Mitcham)Durbin, E. F. M.Hale, Leslie
Brook, D. (Halifax)Dye, S.Hall, W. G.
Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell)Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C.Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R
Brown, George (Belper)Edwards, John (Blackburn)Hannan, W. (Maryhill)
Brown, T. J. (Ince)Edwards, N. (Caerphilly)Hardy, E. A.
Burden, T. W.Edwards, W. J. (Whitechapel)Harrison, J.
Burke, W. A.Evans, E. (Lowestoft)Hastings, Dr. Somerville
Butler, H. W. (Hackney S.)Evans, John (Ogmore)Haworth, J
Callaghan, JamesEvans, S. N. (Wednesbury)Henderson, A (Kingswinford)
Carmichael, JamesEwart, R.Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick)
Castle, Mrs. B. A.Fairhurst, F.Hewitson, Capt. M
Chamberlain, R. A.Farthing, W. J.Hicks, G.
Champion, A. J.Field, Captain W. J.Hobson, C. R

Question, "That the Amendment be made ", put, and agreed to.

I warn hon. Members that this might be regarded as frivolous obstruction, since the House has passed this Amendment about seven times already. The "Ayes" have it. The next Amendment is in page 99, to leave out lines 26 to 42.

On a point of Order. Several hon. Members shouted "No."

It was after I had collected the voices and passed on to the next Amendment.

Amendment made: In page 99, line 5, leave out "obligations and."—[ Mr. Barnes.]

Amendment proposed: In page 99, to leave out lines 26 to 42.—[ Mr. Barnes.]

Question put, "That the Amendment be made."

The House divided: Ayes, 322; Noes, 42.

Holman, P.Monslow, W.Solley, L. J.
Holmes, H. E (Hemsworth)Moody, A. S.Sorensen, R. W.
House, GMorgan, Dr. H. BSoskice, Maj. Sir F.
Hoy, J.Morley, RSparks, J. A.
Hubbard, T.Morris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.)Stamford, W
Hudson, J. H (Ealing, W.)Morris, P. (Swansea, W.)Steele, T.
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.)Mort, D. L.Stephen, C.
Hughes, H. D. (Wolverhampton. W.)Moyle, A.Stewart, Capt. Michael (Fulham, E.)
Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme)Murray, J. D.Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth)
Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.)Nally, W.Stubbs, A. E.
Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe)Neal, H. (Claycross)Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Irving, W. J.Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford)Swingler, S.
Isaacs, Rt Hon. G ANoel-Baker, Capt. F. E. (Brentford)Sylvester, G. O.
Janner, B.Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J. (Derby)Symonds, A. L.
Jay, D. P. T.Noel-Buxton, LadyTaylor, H. B. (Mansfield)
Jeger, G. (Winchester)O'Brien, T.Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Jeger, Or. S W. (St. Pancras, S.E.)Oldfield, W. HTaylor, Dr. S. (Barnet)
John, W.Oliver, G. HThomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Jones, Rt. Hon. A. C. (Shipley)Paget, R. T.Thomas, I. O. (Wrekin)
Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools)Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Wentworth)Thomas, George (Gardiff)
Jones, Elwyn (Plaistow)Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury)Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.)
Jones, J. H. (Bolton)Palmer, A. M. F.Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin)Pargiter, G. AThurtle, Ernest
Keenan, W.Parker, J.Tiffany, S.
Kendall, W. DParkin, B. T.Titterington, M. F.
Key, C. W.Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe)Tolley, L.
King, E. MPaton, J. (Norwich)Turner-Samuels, M.
Kinley, JPeart, Capt. T. FUngoed-Thomas, L.
Kirkwood, DPiratin, P.Usborne, Henry
Lavers, S.Platts-Mills, J F. F.Vernon, Maj. W. F
Lee, F. (HulmePoole, Major Cecil (Lichfield)Viant, S. P.
Lee, Miss J. (Cannock)Popplewell, E.Wadsworth, G.
Leonard, W.Porter, E. (Warrington)Walkden, E.
Leslie, J. RPorter, G. (Leeds)Walker, G. H.
Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton)Price, M. PhilipsWallace, C. D. (Chislehurst)
Lewis, J. (Bolton)Pritt, D. N.Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Lewis, T. (Southampton)Proctor, W. T.Warbey, W. N.
Lindgren, G. S.Pryde, D. J.Watkins, T. E.
Lipton, Lt.-Col. MPursey, Cmdr. HWatson, W. M.
Logan, D. G.Randall, H. EWebb, M. (Bradford, C.)
Longden, FRanger, J.Weitzman, D.
Lyne, A. W.Reeves, J.Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
McAdam, W.Reid, T. (Swindon)Wells, W T. (Walsall)
McEntee, V. La T.Rhodes, H.West, D. G.
McGhee, H. G.Richards, R.Westwood, Rt. Hon. J.
McKay, J (Wallsend)Ridealgh, Mrs. MWhite, H. (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.)Robens, A.Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W
McKinlay, A. SRoberts, Goronwy, (Caernarvonshire)Wigg, Colonel C. E.
McLeavy, F.Robertson, J. J. (Berwick)Wilcock, Group-Capt. C. A. B
McNeil, Rt. Hon. H.Ross, Willlam (Kilmarnock)Wilkes, L.
Macpherson, T. (Romford)Royle, C.Wilkins, W. A.
Mainwaring. W. HSargood, R.Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Mallalieu, J. P. W.Scollan, T.Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Mann, Mrs. J.Scott-Elliot, W.Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Manning, C. (Camberwell, N.)Shackleton, E. A. AWilliams, W. R. (Heston)
Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping)Sharp, GranvilleWilliamson, T
Marquand, H. A.Shawcross, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (St. Helens)Willis, E.
Marshall, F. (Brightside)Shurmer, P.Wills, Mrs E. A
Mathers, G.Silverman, J. (Erdington)Wise, Major F J
Mayhew, C. PSilverman, S. S. (Nelson)Woodburn, A
Medland, H. MSkeffington, A. M.Wyatt, W.
Mellish, R. JSkeffington-Lodge, T. CYates, V. F.
Messer, F.Skinnard, F. W.Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Mikardo, IanSmith, C. (Colchester)Younger, Hon. Kenneth
Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R.Smith, S. H. (Hull, S.W.)
Mitchison, Major G RSnow, Capt. J. W.

TELLERS FOR THE AYES:

Mr. Pearson and Mr. Simmons.

NOES.

Aitken, Hon. MaxDuthie, W. SMacpherson, Maj. N. (Dumfries)
Astor, Hon. M.Fox, Sir G.Marlowe, A. A. H.
Barlow, Sir J.Fraser. Maj. H. C. P. (Stone)Marsden, Capt. A.
Beamish, Maj. T. V. HFraser, Sir I. (Lansdale)Mellor, Sir J.
Bennett, Sir PGlyn, Sir R.Moore, Lt.-Col. Sir T
Bullock, Capt. MHaughton, S. G.Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury)
Butcher, H. WHenderson, John (Cathcart)Neven-Spence, Sir B.
Carson, E.Herbert, Sir A. P.Nicholson, G.
Cole, T. L.Holmes, Sir J. Stanley (Harwich)Roberts, Maj. P. G. (Ecclesall)
Cooper-Key, E. M.Jennings, R.Scott, Lord W.
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E.Lambert, Hon. G.Spence, H. R.
De la Bère, R.Langford-Holt, J.Wheatley, Colonel M. J
Donner, Sqn.-Ldr. P. W.Lipson, D. L.
Dower, E. L. G. (Caithness)Lucas, Maj. Sir J.

TELLERS FOR THE NOES:

Drayson, G. B.McKie, J. H. (Galloway)Mr. Teeling and Sir W. Darling.

Amendment proposed: In page 100, to leave out lines 10 to 15.[ Mr. Barnes.]

Question put, "That the Amendment be made."

Division No. 168.]

AYES.

[10.35 p.m.

Adams, Richard (Balham)Edwards, N. (Caerphilly)Lee, F. (Hulme)
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South)Edwards, W. J. (Whitechapel)Lee, Miss J. (Cannock)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V.Evans, E. (Lowestoft)Leonard, W.
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth)Evans, John (Ogmore)Leslie, J. R.
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe)Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury)Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton)
Alpass, J. H.Ewart, R.Lewis, J. (Bolton)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)Fairhurst, F.Lewis, T. (Southampton)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.Farthing, W. J.Lindgren, G. S.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B.Field, Capt. W. J.Lipton, Lt.-Col. M.
Bacon, Miss A.Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.)Logan, D. G.
Baird, J.Follick, M.Longden, F.
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J.Foot, M. M.Lyne, A. W.
Barton, C.Forman, J. C.McAdam, W.
Battley, J. R.Foster, W. (Wigan)McEntee, V. La T.
Bechervaise, A. E.Fraser, T. (Hamilton)McGhee, H. G.
Benson, G.Freeman, Maj. J. (Watford)McKay, J. (Wallsend)
Berry, H.Freeman, Peter (Newport)Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.)
Beswick, F.Gaitskell, H. T. N.McKinlay, A. S.
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale)Gallacher, W.Maclean, N. (Govan)
Bing, G. H. C.Gibbins, J.McLeavy, F.
Binns, J.Gibson, C. WMcNeil, Rt. Hon. H.
Blackburn, A. R.Gilzean, A.Macpherson, T. (Romford)
Blenkinsop, A.Gooch, E. G.Mainwaring, W. H
Blyton, W. R.Goodrich, H. E.Mallalieu, J. P. W.
Boardman, H.Gordon-Walker, P. CMann, Mrs. J.
Bottomley, A. G.Granville, E. (Eye)Manning, C. (Camberwell, N.)
Bowden, Flg.-Offr. H. W.Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood)Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping)
Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton)Grey, C. F.Marquand, H. A.
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge)Grierson, E.Marshall, F. (Brightside)
Braddock, T. (Mitcham)Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley)Mothers, G.
Brook, D. (Halifax)Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly)Medland, H. M
Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell)Griffiths, W. D. (Moss Side)Mellish, R. J.
Brown, George (Belper)Gunter, R. J.Messer, F.
Brown, T. J. (Ince)Guy, W. H.Mikardo, Ian
Buchanan, G.Haire, John E. (Wycombe)Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R
Burden, T. W.Hale, LeslieMitchison, G. R.
Burke, W. A.Hall, W. G.Monslow, W.
Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.)Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R.Moody, A. S.
Callaghan, JamesHardy, E. A.Morgan, Dr. H. B
Carmichael, JamesHarrison, J.Morley, R.
Castle, Mrs. B A.Hastings, Dr. SomervilleMorris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.)
Chamberlain, R. A.Haworth, J.Morris, P. (Swansea, W.)
Champion, A. J.Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)Mart, D. L.
Chetwynd, G. R.Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick)Moyle, A.
Clitherow, Dr. R.Hewitson, Captain M.Murray, J. D.
Cobb, F. A.Hicks, G.Nally, W.
Cocks, F. S.Hobson, C. R.Neal, H. (Claycross)
Coldrick, W.Holman, P.Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford)
Collins, V. J.Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth)Noel-Baker, Capt. F. E. (Brantford)
Comyns, Dr. L.House, G.Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P J. (Derby)
Cook, T. F.Hoy, J.Noel-Buxton, Lady
Cooper, Wing-Comdr. G.Hubbard, T.Oldfield, W. H
Corbel, Mrs. F. K. (Camb'well, N.W.)Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.)Oliver, G. H.
Corlett, Dr. J.Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.)Paget, R. T.
Corvedale, ViscountHughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.)Paling, Rt, Hon. Wilfred (Wentworth)
Crossman, R. H. S.Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme)Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury)
Daggar, G.Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.)Pargiter, G. A.
Daines, PHynd, J. B. (Attercliffe)Parker, J.
Davies, Edward (Burslem)Irving, W. J.Parkin. B. T.
Davies, Ernest (Enfield)Janner, B.Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe)
Davies, Harold (Leek)Jay, D. P. T.Paton, J. (Norwich)
Davies, Hadyn (St. Pancras, S.W.)Jeger, C. (Winchester)Pearson, A.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton)Jager, Dr. S. W. (St. Pancras, S.E.)Peart, Capt. T. F
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)Jones, Rt. Hon. A. C. (Shipley)Piratin, P.
Deer, G.Jones, D. T. (Hartfepools)Plaits-Mills, J. F. F.
de Freitas, GeoffreyJones, Elwyn (Plaistow)Poole, Major Cecil (Lichfield)
Delargy, H. J.Jones, J. H. (Bolton)Popplewell, E.
Diamond, J.Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin)Porter, E. (Warrington)
Dobbie, W.Keenan, W.Porter, G. (Leeds)
Dodds, N. N.Kendall, W. D.Price, M. Philips
Driberg, T. E. N.Key, C. W.Pritt, D. N.
Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich)King, E. M.Proctor, W. T.
Durbin, E. F. M.Kinghorn, Sqn.-Ldr. E.Pryde, D. J.
Dye, S.Kinley, J.Pursey, Cmdr. H
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C.Kirkwood, DRandall, H. E
Edwards, John (Blackburn)Lavers, S.Ranger, J.

The House divided: Ayes, 316; Noes, 35.

Rankin, J.Stephen, C.Watson, W. M.
Reeves, J.Stewart, Capt. Michael (Fulham, E.)Webb, M. (Bradford, C.)
Reid, T. (Swindon)Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth)Weitzman, D.
Rhodes, H.Stubbs, A. E.Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Richards, R.Summerskill, Dr. EdithWells, W. T. (Walsall)
Robens, A.Swingler, S.West. D G.
Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire)Sylvester, G. O.Westwood, Rt. Hon. J.
Robertson, J. J (Berwick)Symonds, A. L.White, H. (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Royle, C.Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield)Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Sargood, R.Taylor, R. J. (M. peth)Wigg, Colonel G. E.
Scollan, T.Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet)Wilcock, Group-Capt. C. A. B
Scott-Elliot, WThomas, D. E. (Aberdare)Wilkes, L.
Shackleton, E. A. AThomas, I. O. (Wrekin)Wilkins, W. A.
Sharp, GranvilleThomas, George (Cardiff)Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens)Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.)Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Shurmer, P.Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Silverman, J. (Erdington)Thurtle, ErnestWilliams, W. R. (Heston)
Silverman, S. S. (Nelson)Tiffany, S.Williamson, T.
Simmons, C. J.Titterington, M. FWillis, E.
Skeffington, A. M.Tolley, L.Wills, Mrs. E. A
Skeffington-Lodge, T. CTurner-Samuels, M.Wise, Major F J.
Skinnard, F. W.Ungoed-Thomas, L.Woodburn, A
Smith, C. (Colchester)Usborne, HenryWyatt, W.
Smith. S. H. (Hull, S.W.)Vernon, Maj. W. F.Yates, V. F
Snow, Capt. J. W.Viant, S. P.Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Solley, L. J.Wadsworth, GYounger, Hon. Kenneth
Sorensen, R. W.Walker, G. H.
Soskice, Maj. Sir FWallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES:

Sparks, J. A.Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)Mr. Collindridge and
Stamford, W.Warbey, W. N. Mr. Hannan
Steele, T.Watkins, T. E.

NOES.

Aitken, Hon. MaxDonner, Sqn.-Ldr. P. W.Marsden, Capt A.
Astor, Hon. M.Dower, E. L. C. (Caithness)Mellor, Sir J.
Barlow, Sir J.Duthie, W. SMoore, Lt.-Col. Sir T.
Beamish, Maj. T. V. HFox, Sir G.Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury)
Beechman, N. A.Fraser, H. C. P. (Stone)Neven-Spence, Sir B.
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. WFraser, Sir I. (Lonsdale)Roberts, Maj. P. G. (Ecclesall)
Bullock, Capt. M.Haughton, S. G.Spence, H. R.
Butcher, H. WHenderson, John (Cathcart)Teeling, Willlam
Carson, E.Holmes, Sir J. Stanley (Harwich)Wheatley, Colonel M. J.
Cole, T. L.Lambert, Hon. G.
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. ELangford-Holt, J.

TELLERS FOR THE NOES:

Darling, Sir W. Y.MacDonald, Sir M. (Inverness)Major N. Macpherson and
De la Bère, R.Marlowe, A A. H. Sir A. Herbert