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British Army

Volume 445: debated on Tuesday 9 December 1947

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Requisitioned Property, Germany

7.

asked the Secretary of State for War what recent inquiries he has made into the extent of military requisitioning of residential property in Germany; and what reduction there has been.

I have recently had inquiries made into both the policy for requisitioning residential property in the British zone of Germany and the application of the policy. The policy laid down is to restrict requisitioning of residential property to the barest minimum. This is achieved by accommodating units in barracks, as the strength of Rhine Army decreases, thereby releasing requisitioned residential property. Records are not maintained of residential as distinct from other properties under requisition. During the first six months of 1947 there was a net reduction of some 3,000 in the total number of properties of all kinds held on requisition by Rhine Army.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is the total number of properties held by the Rhine Army?

Mr.

Site, Grangemouth

9.

asked the Secretary of State for War when it is intended to clear the site at Wester Newlands Farm, Grangemouth, at present used as a dump for surplus Government stores, in order that this land may again be used for agricultural purposes.

This site may be required permanently for an Engineer Depot, in which case the requirement will be considered in due course by the Inter-Departmental Committee on Services Land Requirements. If it is not eventually retained, the date of clearance will depend on the availability of transport and I cannot at present make any forecast of how long it would take.

Can the Minister tell us when the decision will be taken as to whether the camp is going to be required permanently or not?

Apprentice School (Scotland)

11.

asked the Secretary of State for War if, in view of the fact there are four Army apprentice schools in the United Kingdom but none located in Scotland, he proposes to establish such a school there in the near future; and, if so, where.

Consideration has been given to the possibility of establishing in Scotland a fifth school for Army apprentices, but owing to shortage of manpower and accommodation, as well as the cost of the project, I regret that at present I see no prospect of carrying it out, at least for some considerable time.

The Minister has in mind, of course, the mobilisation of the martial spirit of the Scottish people to an extent which I hope will not preclude him from considering this proposal in the future?

I am fully conscious of the desire of the Scottish people to help in this regard, but at the moment I cannot undertake this additional task.

When the right hon. Gentleman has considered it, I hope favourably, will he also consider opening it himself as an Army apprentice?

The hon. and gallant Member seems to be unaware that I am already a full-blown craftsman.

Manpower Economy Committee (Interim Report)

13.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether the Manpower Economy Committee have advised him how manpower economies may be achieved; in what way he has acted on the advice received; and whether he is satisfied with the results obtained.

This Committee has submitted a first interim report, which is under consideration.

Was it as the result of information from this Committee that the right hon. Gentleman suggested on Sunday that the best way to economise on manpower was for the three Services to be combined?

I made a statement to that effect, but I never used the word "combine" in regard to the three Services, and I am not responsible for what appears in one or two newspapers.

When the Minister is reviewing the matter of manpower will he take into account the 17,000-odd Polish Army forces still being kept in idleness by his Department?

There are never any persons kept in idleness for whom employment can be found.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an indication of what is in this interim Report?

Uniform, Brigade Of Guards

14.

asked the Secretary of State for War where the full dress uniform of the Brigade of Guards is stored; in what condition it is now; and how often it is examined and precautions taken against depreciation by moth, etc.

Full dress clothing for other ranks of the Brigade of Guards is stored at a Central Ordnance Sub-Depot.

The uniforms are in a serviceable condition. They are inspected as often as practicable and a complete inspection has just been finished.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that, at least in so far as the tunics and the blue serge trousers are concerned, they are the private property of the warrant officers, N.C.Os. and guardsmen concerned; whether his Department paid these people on their uniform being handed in, and if not what steps are being taken to pay them, or their next-of-kin?

Is the Minister aware that every warrant officer, N.C.O. and guardsman had at least two suits of full dress, and very often three, which were their own personal property, on the declaration of war? Was a complete record kept of those who handed in more than one suit of full dress?

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind, when considering the question of dress of the Brigade of Guards, the question of officers' dress and the great difficulty of replacement if it should be taken into use again?

I am fully aware of the difficulties. The problem is not as simple as it appears to be.

Courts-Martial (Committee Report)

15.

asked the Secretary of State for War when it is expected that the Report of the Committee on Courts-Martial will be published.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give any assurance that this report will be available in time for full consideration before the Army Bill comes to be considered? This Committee has been sitting a long time, has it not?

That is true, but there were, as the hon. and learned Gentleman is aware, some interim recommendations which were the subject of an announcement by my predecessor. We are trying to get on with this as speedily as we can.

Ordnance Depot, Biewster

16.

asked the Secretary of State for War what amount has been expended on the construction of the Ordnance Depot at Bicester since 1945; and what is the estimated future expenditure on construction.

Approximately ÂŁ21,000 has been spent on new temporary works at this depot since October, 1945, and ÂŁ163,000 on maintenance. What expenditure will be incurred in future cannot yet be accurately estimated.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that existing and old established Ordnance Depots, like that at Weedon are being fully utilised, and not left partly unused while this big depot is being expanded?

That is a matter to be considered in relation to the general reorganisation. I cannot pronounce upon that at present.

Service Land Requirements

18.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he intends to proceed with the acquisition of 22,000 acres of land for a practical training area in Roxburghshire; if he is aware that this means a reduction of between 7,000 and 8,000 breeding ewes in this area; and if, in view of the food shortage, he will further consider the matter.

My Department already owns a considerable acreage of land in this area, and desires to acquire a further area, making a total of 21,500 acres for use as a practical training area for Regular and Territorial Army units in Scotland. It is premature to assume that the proposal will mean a reduction in stock, as discussions are at present proceeding with local authorities and other interested parties to ensure the minimum interference with grazing and other local interests. These discussions are a necessary preliminary to the final consideration of the proposal by the Inter-Departmental Committee on Services Land Requirements.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the Debate on Scottish Agriculture the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for the Scottish Universities (Lieut. - Colonel Elliot) raised this question, and described the Secretary of State as a powerful baron contemplating another clearance; and would he consider a strategic withdrawal from this area?

I read both speeches to which my hon. Friend refers, and also his own speech, and, quite frankly, I did not think much of them.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is impossible to hand over large tracts of country to be used for training without interfering with stock?

We do our very best to avoid any undue disturbance of stock. We are fully conscious of agricultural requirements. All this matter is being considered just now, and I have been meeting interested parties—and will continue to meet them—in order to make some satisfactory arrangements.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Services as a whole use 550,000 acres of land which were used for agriculture in 1938? As the War Office is the largest user, will he consider very seriously not taking any more land which can be used for agricultural purposes?

That is an over-simplification of this problem, it appears to me. We have either to train the Army or to leave it untrained. If this House decides that it must be trained with modern weapons in accordance with modern practice, then we have to provide the facilities. On the other hand, I am very anxious to avoid any disturbance of agricultural land. Some of my hon. Friends are aware, and hon. Members opposite are aware, that I have been trying to effect a satisfactory arrangement. I shall continue to do so. But if we have to train the Army, then, obviously, we must have the facilities.

In view of the devastating losses already suffered by the Scottish sheep stocks in the past winter, can the right hon. Gentleman say if he has consulted with the Secretary of State for Scotland, who is appealing for the rebuilding of those stocks as quickly as possible?

Consultations are always taking place inter-Departmentally, as the hon. Gentleman must be aware. I must say this about the Scottish position; the amount of land required in Scotland is, in proportion, very much below the amount of land we are seeking to acquire elsewhere, and my Welsh friends have suggested that, instead of acquiring too much land in Wales, we should turn our attention to Scotland.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that there is full consultation with the other Services to secure the most economical use of the areas taken?

There is always coordination, but one must beware of the use of the word "co-ordination."

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the great reputation that he acquired as Minister of Fuel is in danger of being lost now?

Such reputation as I possess I desire to retain, but I can assure my hon. Friend in all modesty that I apply, I hope, a practical mind to the consideration of these problems.

22.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the increasing dissatisfaction among the farming community in North Westmorland at his prolonged delay in arriving at a decision about the future of the 40,000 acres of land held by his Department, and known locally as the Warcop Ranges; and when a decision will be reached.

The future of these ranges is at present under discussion. I regret, however, that it is not likely to be possible to announce a final decision until the whole question of land required by my Department for this particular type of training has been settled.

Is the Minister aware that it is a very long time since an early decision was promised; that these ranges cover approximately one-tenth of the whole county; and that it is quite impossible for farmers to plan the stocking of this land if the present conditions continue?

I have already expressed my views about the use of agricultural land, which is to avoid such use as far as possible. The hon. Member is associated with the Territorial Forces, as he recently claimed, and, therefore, he should know a little better than his Question indicates.

23.

asked the Secretary of State for War what consultations he is holding with local agricultural interests to ensure that the military use of the Warcop Ranges allows owners and farmers to maintain their sheep in a reasonably healthy condition; and to ensure that claims for damage to equipment or stock are promptly settled.

So far as I am aware, there have been no serious difficulties or complaints about the grazing of sheep over these ranges, and claims have been settled without unnecessary delay. Claims officers keep in touch with the County Agricultural Executive Committee.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that local farming interests do not agree with his reply; that they are of the opinion that, if consultations were more close, they would be able to stock these ranges much better; and is he further aware that I was doing a Territorial exercise last week in another county, and that the brigade staff had made proper arrangements with the farmers concerned so that we could make full use of their land without in any way interfering with agriculture? Could not the same be done in this case?

I hope the Territorial exercise did the hon. Member some good, and will enable him to furnish me with the details on which his Question is based.

24.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he has considered a resolution sent to him by the Old Sedberghian Club in connection with the use of the Sedbergh Fells as a military training area; and if he has any statement to make.

As stated by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 25th February last, efforts have been made to find an alternative area for the Martindale field firing range. Langdale Fell has been suggested by the local authorities, and a proposal to use this area is under consideration by the Inter-Departmental Committee on Services Land Requirements.

Huts (Heating)

19.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that in a number of camps, where recruits are domiciled in damp huts, there are no fires except on inspection day; and will he see that heating is provided during the winter months, so as to safeguard the health and welfare of young lads.

The solid fuel available to the Army is not sufficient to maintain the standard of heating of barrack rooms which is necessary. However, in present circumstances it is only right that the Army should exercise the greatest possible economies, in the same way as all other users of fuel.

Does the Secretary of State think it right that on the day when a brigadier goes down to inspect a camp the fires are lit whereas they are not lit on other days? That happened at Shrewsbury.

I am not aware of this particular incident, but I accept what my hon. Friend says about it. I do know, however, after inspecting some of the barracks and huts, that heating arrangements are most unsatisfactory, and I am doing all that I can to have them put right.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in these damp camps there may be insufficient fuel to heat them, but that if the drainage systems were properly operated by the troops themselves it would help to make the camps less damp—if they were properly trenched?

The troops are very self-reliant in these matters and do adapt themselves to difficult circumstances. Nevertheless, the position is very bad.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I have had this morning a letter from Heathfield Camp, Honiton, saying that in the recent cold spell the men woke up to find their boots frozen to the floors of the huts?

I will make the necessary inquiries in respect of that question, but I am very well aware of the facts, and I am disturbed about them.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the case of a camp he inspected a fortnight ago, where he commented on how cosy and warm the huts were, the fires were lit for the very first time that day, and that as soon as he had gone they were put out?

I commented in accordance with the circumstances, and no one would expect me to do otherwise. I am aware that sometimes they may put on a full dress show when some important person goes.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some officers have been saying to recruits who have complained, that there would be more coal if the late Minister of Fuel had provided more during his term of office?

That only proves that one discovers stupidity in circles other than those that are to be found in this place.

Married Quarters

21.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the large unsatisfied demand for married quarters, he will investigate the possibility of using for this purpose, suitable buildings, at present unoccupied, in camps which are controlled by his Department.

This is already being done in the form of Regular Families Hostels, which have been established for homeless Regular families returning from overseas and for the families of soldiers who are still serving overseas. All the accommodation which is at present empty is either so badly damaged as not to be habitable without considerable repair or is definitely set aside for troops due to return from abroad. Every effort is being made to recondition all the damaged accommodation, but lack of materials and labour is holding this up.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, in answering this Question, he has taken into account the large reductions in the armed Forces which he forecast last weekend?

s: We have forecast reductions in the size of the armed Forces for some time, but whatever the reductions may be, we still require more ample accommodation than we presently possess, and particularly for married personnel.

Was the Minister's original reply made bearing in mind the cut in capital investment; and what alteration has been made in the amount of married quarters to be built?

This matter has nothing to do with any cut in capital investment.

For a long period of years the accommodation for the Army has been inadequate. It was inadequate when I was Financial Secretary, in 1929; it has been inadequate ever since; and as the strength of the Army has increased we find the position has become even more desperate.