asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the congestion in many post offices, he will arrange to increase the number of automatic machines from which postage stamps can be obtained.

It is Post Office policy to provide automatic stamp selling machines to the fullest practicable extent as a means of diverting small sales of stamps from post office counters. If the hon. Member will let me know of any particular case in which he thinks the number of such machines might with advantage be increased I will gladly consider the matter.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that there are a great many instances throughout the country of the need for these machines which avoid an enormous amount of trouble and inconvenience on the part of the public and the employees of the Post Office.

That is not our view. Our trouble is in having to educate the public to use the machines which are in the post offices.

asked the Postmaster General what instructions he has issued to Post Office officials regarding the opening and perusal of private correspondence between this country and the countries of the British Empire and Commonwealth.

In implementation of the provisions of the Foreign Postal Packets (Customs) Warrant, 1948, Statutory Instrument 1948, No. 562, Post Office staff are instructed to open postal packets sent to or from the United Kingdom only if required to do so by the proper officer of Customs and Excise for Customs purposes or for the purpose of the provisions of Part IV of the Exchange Control Act, 1947, and to reseal promptly and put in course of transmission all packets when released by the Customs. It is no part of the duty of Post Office staff to examine correspondence contained in such packets.

But this is a matter of great importance. How can the hon. Gentleman justify interference with the private correspondence of a constituent of mine with a relative—a sister who has been in Canada for the last 30 years? Is this a corollary to the invasion of the home and the examination of private shopping baskets? Is that what the Government are after?

The reasons have been stated in the answer to the Question.

But did the hon. Gentleman understand what the answer was, for I did not?

Perfectly—otherwise I should not have given it.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the relative manpower now compared to pre-war concerned with deliveries of letters.

I regret that figures relating solely to the delivery of letters are not available, but for postal deliveries, collections and allied operations, the comparable numbers of postmen employed (each part-timer counted as one-half) were: 1st April, 1939, 78,899; 1st April, 1949, 76,176.

Does the hon. Gentleman think that the figures he has just given justify the statement of his right hon. Friend the other day in which he said that the pre-war facilities of early delivery and late collection of letters were not possible because of the manpower shortage? The figures he has given are very nearly comparable.

Yes, Sir. Of course, the position is that there are now practically no split tours of duty for post office workers such as those which operated before the war and, therefore, more manpower is required for the same services.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephones have been installed at farms in the West Riding during the past six months; and how many of these are being shared by more than one farmer.

In the six months preceding 1st May, 1949, 168 farmers in the West Riding were supplied with telephones. Thirty of them were connected by means of shared service.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the number still in need of telephones, and can he give any assurance that telephones will be installed at a greater rate in these rural areas?

I cannot give that assurance. This is entirely a question of the supply and availability of labour and of telephone equipment in the exchanges.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why British subjects of non-European descent, serving in the Royal Air Force, are not granted overseas postings; and if he will remove this discrimination.

Every man serving in the Royal Air Force, whether he be of European or non-European descent, is eligible for posting to any part of the world in which there are R.A.F. units.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend say whether that very welcome announcement indicates a change of policy on the part of his Department and the other Service Departments as well?

No, Sir. I am not able to speak for other Departments, and, so far as my own Department is concerned, I do not think there has ever been any question of racial discrimination in its policy.

With all respect, is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that that is not the case? I can submit evidence of it; but I am very glad that he has made this new announcement.

asked the Secretary of State for Air when older training machines now in use by the Royal Air Force at Heany, Southern Rhodesia, are to be replaced by the more modern types available for pilot training in this country: and whether jet-propelled aircraft will be sent out.

At present the School at Heany for ab initio flying training is equipped with Harvards and Tiger Moths. The Harvards will be replaced by the Balliol or the Athena next year. I am reconsidering the question of the aircraft to replace the Tiger Moths. It had been intended to use the Prentice for this purpose, but certain technical difficulties have now arisen in connection with the use of this aircraft at high altitudes. It is not proposed to use jet aircraft for ab initio training either in this country or in Southern Rhodesia.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend satisfied that the Harvard advanced trainers now available at Heany are indeed serviceable machines?

Yes, Sir. I am quite sure that no machine would be used if it were not serviceable.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation when he proposes to derequisition the Cardiff airport.

There is no intention of derequisitioning Pengam Moors Aerodrome.

Can my hon. Friend say why there is no promise at all to derequisition this airport? Can he give some reason for that?

If Cardiff wants it derequisitioned and does not want an aerodrome and will let us know, we shall be prepared to consider it. Our information is that Cardiff not only desires an aerodrome, but air services as well.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether he has now received the report of the inquiry into the crash of the Dutch airliner near Prestwick.

No, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman give any indication why this report has been so long delayed?

The law is not a very speedy instrument in England; it appears to be even less speedy in Scotland.

Can my hon. Friend say whether he has yet received any report on the collision of the Anson and the Dakota at Coventry, and whether it is being published?

That, Sir, is another question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reports he has had from the British representative at the General Assembly of the United Nations as to whether officials of the International Red Cross have been granted visas by the governments of the countries concerned, to enable them to visit kidnapped Greek children and arrange for their repatriation, in order to ensure that the resolution of the United Nations Assembly is carried out; and if he will cause inquiries to be made into this matter.

A preliminary report has been submitted to the United Nations by the International Committee of the Red Cross and the League of Red Cross Societies on the question of the Greek children removed to other countries. Copies have been placed in the Library of the House. The report shows that while delegates of the International Red Cross had at that date already visited Greece, Czechoslovakia and Bulgaria and had carried out investigations in these three countries, facilities for the entry of delegates had not been furnished by the Governments of other countries sheltering Greek children. It has, however, been subsequently learned that the Yugoslav Government has granted these facilities.

On a point of Order. This matter has been brought up on many occasions in connection with Questions, and I want to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether it is permissible to ask a Question which makes an allegation against other nations and uses a phrase which the Minister, quoting from the official document of U.N.O., carefully avoided? There is no official accusation anywhere of kidnapping.

It is quite in Order. One knows that kidnapping took place.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us whether the position is that, so long as two of the Governments refuse to co-operate with the International Red Cross and to allow their officials to have visas, these children will be permanently removed from their parents, year in and year out? Is this not a gross crime against humanity?

May I ask the Minister why he used the word "sheltering" in his answer which suggested that they are being protected whereas, in fact, they have been kidnapped?

As progress is now being made on the subject by the Red Cross Societies, I think we should go ahead with it and try to keep out the political side.

Will the hon. Gentleman draw the attention of hon. Members opposite to the film showing the life of these children in Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, which is available in London and which is being shown by the Council of Greek Democracy at the Crown Cinema on a date which the Under-Secretary could no doubt give?

Would the hon. Gentleman assure the House that in the view of His Majesty's Government at least, the right place for these children is with their parents?

Yes, Sir.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the report of the International Red Cross Committee actually furnished the evidence that the children had been kidnapped?

It is only a preliminary report dealing principally with the question of access to the countries concerned.

Is it not the case that none of the countries referred to has such an industry as kidnapping, and that kidnapping is peculiar to America, from which Eisler succeeded in escaping?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what requests he has received from the Greek Government during the last 12 months for fighter aircraft, fighter or light bombers and training planes, respectively; when these requests were received; and whether they have now been fully met.

During the past 12 months, 74 fighter bombers have been delivered to Greece on request and against payment. Of these 20 were ordered in January, 1948, and delivered in July, 1948; delivery of 54 ordered in August, 1948, is just being completed. No aircraft in other categories mentioned by the hon. and gallant Member have so far been delivered, but by August we expect to meet outstanding requests for 24 training and 12 transport aircraft, ordered in March and April of this year.

Why was the Greek Air Force kept short of Spitfires during the whole of the winter campaign when Spitfires are obsolescent craft in this country? Is the Minister aware of the very urgent need in Greece for fighter bombers and light bombers of a slightly large type than Spitfires?

I think the nature of the aircraft is a different question. I think my answer explained the reply to the first part of that question.

Could the Under-Secretary state what types of aircraft were sent to Greece?

I should need notice of that question.

Can my hon. Friend say whether these aircraft are paid for by, the Greek Government or whether we give the aircraft to them?

They are paid for in dollars.

Is the hon. Member aware that nothing would serve better to raise the morale of the Greek National forces at this critical stage——

They badly need it.

—of the summer campaign than an announcement by His Majesty's Government that they would welcome any further orders for aircraft of this description now that the programme is being completed?

Is my hon. Friend aware that the better the aircraft to go to the Greek Fascist forces, the better the aircraft that are captured or taken from them by the Greek popular forces?

On a point of Order. May I ask you, Sir, whether it is in Order for the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Platts-Mills) to refer to the legally-elected Government of Greece as being "Greek Fascist forces?" Is that in Order and, if not, should it be allowed? This is a friendly Government.

I did not hear the word "Fascist." It is, of course, the Greek Government.

Are you prepared, Sir, to allow another hon. Member to rise and put a question before one question has been completed and the Minister has been enabled to reply?

I thought the Minister had answered and I called another hon. Member.

Further to that point of Order, Mr. Speaker, I hope you will take note of the fact that attention has been drawn to this question by the other side, because on very many occasions I have drawn attention to the use of language by the other side in connection with the democratic Governments of Eastern Europe.

Is the Under-Secretary prepared to give an answer to my question?

I will complete my question, which was interrupted, I thought rather unexpectedly, by points of Order from the other side. May I draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the fact that hon. Members on the other side at least are perfectly well aware that the Fascist group in Greece are what they call the official Government group?

On a point of Order. On a previous point of Order, Mr. Speaker, you said you did not hear the legal Greek Government described as a Fascist Government. That statement has just been repeated by the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Platts-Mills). Now that it must have been heard by you, I repeat the point of Order—whether a legal Government with whom we have diplomatic relations should be so described?

I heard the hon. Member for Finsbury and he was in error, because he made an imputation. He did not call the Government a Fascist Government; he said there were groups behind the Government which are well-known as Fascists. That is exactly what I heard and I listened very carefully. That, of course, was an imputation and an inference which should not be made.

Further to that point of Order. Are we to understand from that Ruling, Mr. Speaker, that the question of whether a Government is a Fascist Government or not is now a question of Order in this House and not a question of fact?

Further to that point of Order. Have we not adopted an attitude in the past three years that there are certain Fascist Governments in the world—the Governments of Spain, of Portugal, of Greece, and of near-Fascist Turkey?

I think the word "Fascist" is always taken in an unfavourable sense, and, therefore, to use it against one of those Governments is an imputation against that Government. The hon. Gentleman has just said, I think, that three or four Governments are Fascist. Since this word is an imputation, it is better not said.

On the last point of Order that the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Platts-Mills) made, he specifically described the Greek Government as being a Fascist Government. I listened most carefully to what he said. He said the Governments of Spain and Portugal and Greece were Fascist. I am sure he would not deny it. In view of the fact that all the members of the Greek Government participated in the fight against Fascism in 1940 while the hon. Member was supporting it, is it not particularly unfortunate that he should say such a thing?

Further to that point of Order. Is it necessarily out of Order to refer to a Government, even mistakenly, as a Fascist Government unless it is to be assumed, as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Bristol (Mr. Stanley) has assumed, that no legally appointed Government would be Fascist?

It is true of Spain.

This is getting rather complicated. I have not found the word "Fascist" in Erskine May as being out of Order. Neither is the word "Communist" out of Order. The one is an imputation on the one side, and the other an imputation on the other side. I think it unfortunate that these reflections should be made against any Government, be they Fascist or Communist Governments.

To return to the question——

Withdraw.

The hon. Member ought to go to Moscow.

The question I was putting was this. Does not my hon. Friend realise that those Governments whose civil wars are supported by dollar grants from America, invariably find themselves giving or selling or losing their equipment to the popular forces?

That is another imputation, because the hon. Gentleman said the Government were supported by dollars, and I have had complaints about that before.

On a point of Order. Is it to be tolerated, and is it in accordance with the proceedings of this House at Question Time, that the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Platts-Mills) should be allowed repeatedly to rise to his feet and obliterate the subject matter of a Question by booming out his supplementary questions that cast imputations? I submit that that is not in Order.

Quite obviously, we had better proceed to the next Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent refugees are still coming into the British zone of Germany; and how many camps are established there which can provide suitable facilities for caring for families accompanied by children.

German refugees are still arriving in the British zone from the East at the rate of about 30,000 per month. The German authorities who are responsible for the reception and welfare of the refugees estimate that 40 of the camps established in the British zone are suitable for resident children.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that the position in Schleswig-Holstein in particular is reaching unmanageable proportions and, in view of that, will he get into touch with the French authorities, who have no refugees in their zone, to see whether they can take some so as to relieve the position for us?

My hon. Friend will be aware that we have, in fact, taken that action and that discussions have taken place. Some redistribution of refugees has taken place to the advantage of Schleswig-Holstein.

Can my hon. Friend give any estimate of the comparable number of refugees crossing from the Western zones into the Eastern zone of Germany?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, with the object of reducing unemployment in Western Germany and helping to re-establish family life, he will investigate the possibility of negotiating foreign credits for a large-scale housing programme.

The Military Governors have had occasion recently to emphasise to the Germans the need for utilising their available resources to the full where housing is concerned. Much can, in fact, be done in this direction before the question of foreign credits need arise.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is widespread unemployment in the building industry in Western Germany and could not some of these men be directed to collecting materials from the war-shattered areas, so as to use them for re-building purposes?

This is a matter for the German authorities. As I have stated, the military governors have drawn their attention to this question already.

Will the hon. Member refrain from creating unemployment by dismantling plants engaged in productive industries?

That is another question.

Does not my hon. Friend consider that the cause of this unemployment, as well as the lack of housing, is due to the removal of controls by the laissez-faire German administration at Frankfurt?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many goods trains have reached the Western sectors of Berlin from Western Germany since the ending of the blockade; and what steps are being taken to increase the flow of rail traffic.

As regards traffic for which the Western Allies are responsible, 140 trains had reached Berlin from the Western Zones between the lifting of the blockade on 12th May and 31st May. Of those only 20 arrived since the Berlin railway strike began on the night of 20th May. Negotiations are in progress with the Soviet authorities in Berlin to increase the rate of flow, which, even before the strike began, was subject to restrictions to which I referred in my reply to the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Major Beamish) on 25th May. Discussions are still proceeding on a quadripartite basis, particularly with a view to making other routes available in addition to the Helmstedt-Magdeburg-Berlin line.

Is it not the fact that the Soviet Union agreed, before these conversations about Germany started, that they would put an end to the blockade, and is it not quite obvious from my hon. Friend's answer that the Soviet Union have broken their word again as usual?

On a point of Order. After the protests we have just had, is it in Order for an hon. Member to refer to a friendly Government——

Friendly to whom?

I understand that there is a Treaty of friendship between this country and the Soviet Union. Is it in Order to refer to a friendly Government as having "broken their word as usual"? That is a deliberate imputation. If we are to have imputations on one side, hon. Members will get them on the other.

That is not the way to raise a point of Order.

Is it not a fact that on many occasions the Soviet Government have broken their word?

Further to the point of Order. I ask for my own guidance. I should like to know what is in Order and what is not. What I should like you to say, Mr. Speaker, is whether it can ever be in Order with regard to a friendly Government, to say they have "as usual broken their word."

Would it be in Order to say that the Soviet Government had attached the usual importance to their pledges?

Would it not be in the interests of Members that what is and what is not in Order should not be too clearly defined?

I agree with the hon. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes).

Can the Under-Secretary of State tell us whether since the railway strike began, the airborne and waterborne traffic through Western Germany to Eastern Germany has continued quite unrestricted?

That is a different question from that asked. I should like notice of it.

Can my hon. Friend tell us what is the number of trains that normally would run through compared with the number of trains now allowed through?

I have tried to make an estimate of the percentage that has been stopped. I think it is true to say that, if there had been no strike, then the lifting of the blockade as carried out by the Soviet authorities would have led to a volume of traffic of 70 per cent. compared with that of a year ago. The strike, however, has cut that 70 per cent. to 20 per cent.

In view of the fact that the Soviet Government have undoubtedly broken their word, on this occasion particularly about the lifting of the blockade, is it not time for us to stop trading with the Soviet Government until they allow trains through?

There are quadripartite discussions in Berlin on this whole subject. There is nothing I can usefully add to what I have said already.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement regarding any outstanding successes achieved in the Colonies in State pilot schemes for growing food and raw materials.

It is too early yet to discuss outstanding successes in State pilot schemes in development policy in recent years. The success of such schemes must be judged largely by their economic results. Which in many cases cannot be determined for several years. A number of schemes are now in various stages of development or planning in different parts of the Colonial Empire.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many tuberculosis officers, who are graduates in medicine, are employed in the African Colonial Service; how many of them are Africans; and, of these, how many have received their training in tuberculosis work in Africa.

A great deal of work on tuberculosis is being done in the Gold Coast and Nigeria, in all the East African territories, and in the Silicosis Bureau in Northern Rhodesia. Some of this work is done by specialist officers, but much by both European and African medical officers who combine it with other public health work. I could not give the figures asked for in the Question without reference to the Governments concerned, and I doubt whether, if the figures were obtained, they would by themselves give a clear picture of all that is going on.

Would my right hon. Friend accept the principle that if this problem is to be solved in the reasonably near future, the best men for the work would be Africans whose post-graduate training in this special field can be in Africa, where they must meet in their work the same problems as they have to face throughout the whole of the time they are there?

Yes. More and more African students are being engaged.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many cases of pulmonary tuberculosis were notified and how many deaths were certified during 1948, in Northern Rhodesia, Kenya, Tanganyika and Aden.

I have asked the Governors of the four territories to supply this information. I will communicate with my hon. Friend when it arrives.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what was the average cost per bed, in his recent provision of 102 beds for the treatment of tuberculosis in Aden.

The average cost of the provision of tubercular patients in the Civil Hospital at Aden was £90 per bed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware, and will he agree, that this figure is a remarkably low one, which suggests that there has not only been initiative shown there, but a real capacity for improvisation; and will he bear in mind, in advising other territories, that a chromium-plated sanatorium is not necessary, and the problem can be solved without it?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, what arrangements exist in Hong Kong for inquiring into aircraft accidents.

Accidents to civil aircraft in Hong Kong are investigated on behalf of the Governor by the Director of Civil Aviation. The investigation of accidents to Service aircraft in Hong Kong is of course a matter for the Service authorities concerned.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that an accident took place a year ago—in June last year—to a Catalina aircraft, and that still there has been no report issued of the findings about the accident. Will he look into the matter, because many local claims depend on the findings?

I have no such information, but I will certainly look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether he is satisfied that the recruitment of volunteer forces in Hong Kong is now meeting with an adequate response.

Recruitment is proceeding steadily but not as rapidly as was hoped. I am assured by the Governor that everything possible is being done to stimulate recruitment for the Defence Force and in particular for those components which are principally concerned with internal security duties and with the maintenance of essential services.

Can the Minister say whether there is any question of applying conscription to British nationals already in Hong Kong?

That does not arise on the Question asked.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether adequate equipment and training areas are provided for the volunteers?

We are meeting all the demands for equipment.