House Of Commons
Wednesday, 29th June, 1949
The House met at Half-past Two o'Clock
Prayers
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
Private Business
Edinburgh And Midlothian Water Order Confirmation Bill
Read a Second time; to be considered Tomorrow.
Oral Answers To Questions
Civil Aviation
Northolt Airport (Traffic Control)
1.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he is aware of the delays caused to incoming and outgoing airliners at Northolt airport; how these delays were incurred; and what steps are being taken to remedy the situation.
Yes, Sir. There were unusually severe delays to aircraft movements at Northolt during a spell of instrument flight rule conditions on 14th June, the day after new procedures were introduced in the Metropolitan control zone. Advantage has been taken of the experience gained in instrument flight rule conditions since the system was inaugurated to introduce certain modifications, and this process will continue as necessary.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary now satisfied that in future these delays will not occur? Is he also satisfied that as a result of the alteration in the control system in regard to the stacking of aircraft a good safety margin is now given?
I hope we shall never be satisfied until we reach perfection, which will take a long time. We are satisfied, in regard to organisation and procedure, that the slight element of risk which previously existed, because of the proximity of the two airports, has been eliminated. With the progressive use of the new procedure, I hope that delays will be reduced.
4.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation how many aircraft were delayed in the week commencing 13th June at Northolt airport by the new system of air traffic control and for what total period; and what are the comparable figures for the week commencing 19th June.
As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
May I, nevertheless, ask whether this system of traffic control is intended only for Northolt, or whether it is being installed elsewhere?
No, Sir. This system has been dictated by the close proximity of the two airports, London and Northolt.
Following are the details:
BROAD ANALYSIS OF TRAFFIC MOVEMENTS AT NORTHOLT AIRPORT FOR WEEKS COMMENCING— | |||
Prior to introduction of modified system of air traffic control | Subsequent to introduction of modified system of air traffic control | ||
Week commencing 6.6.49 | Week commencing 13.6.49 | Week commencing 20.6.49 | |
Total Movements
| |||
*IFR Take Off | 155 | 119 | 156 |
Landing | 91 | 111 | 100 |
†VFR Take Off | 406 | 429 | 382 |
Landing | 453 | 439 | 432 |
Grand Total | 1,105 | 1,098 | 1,070 |
Number of Aircraft delayed
| |||
*IFR Take Off | 114 | 73 | 99 |
Landing | 80 | 87 | 81 |
Total delayed | 194 | 160 | 180 |
Prior to introduction of modified system of air traffic control | Subsequent to introduction of modified system of air traffic control | ||
Week commencing 6.6.49 | Week commencing 13.6.49 | Week commencing 20.6.49 | |
Mean Delay (delayed aircraft) | |||
Take Off | 4¼ mins. | 12 mins. | 4 mins. |
Landing | 3 mins. | 14½ mins. | 5½ mins. |
Aggregate Delay
| |||
Take Off | 8 hrs. | 14½ hrs. | 6½ hrs. |
Landing | 4 hrs. | 21 hrs. | 7½ hrs. |
Total Delay | 12 hrs. | 35½ hrs. | 14 hrs. |
Longest Delay
| |||
Take Off | 40 mins. | 59 mins. | 41 mins. |
Landing | 30 mins. | 70 mins. | 48 mins. |
Total time when IFR was in operation
| 28½ hrs. | 30 hrs. | 44½ hrs. |
Percentage of IFR aircraft delayed
| 79% | 70% | 70% |
Average Delay (delayed air-aircraft) | 3¾ mins. | 13½ mins. | 4½ mins. |
Percentage of total movements delayed
| 18% | 15% | 17% |
* IFR=Instrument Flight Rules. | |||
† VFR=Visual Flight Rules. | |||
N.B.—These figures may be subject to minor adjustments. |
Airports, London
2.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will make a statement naming the civil airports which are to be in use for the next five years within a radius of 40 miles of London.
I have nothing to add to the statement I made in the Debate in Committee of Supply on 1st March last.
But that statement was very unsatisfactory to civil operators. It is surely up to the Ministry to make definite plans, within the limits of the country's economy, so that operators know their tenure at airports? When will the Parliamentary Secretary be in a position to come to an early decision in the matter?
That decision has already been indicated. We shall de-requisition Blackbushe at the earliest possible moment, which will be in 1951, if not earlier; it will be derequisitioned in 1952 at the latest.
Israel (Direct Service)
3.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation when a direct through air service to Israel will be established.
The matter is still being considered, and I will give the House further information as soon as possible.
Cannot we have some action in the matter instead of merely consideration, as the airlines of other countries are making handsome profits out of routes to this country?
We are providing communication three times a week—once to Lydda and twice to Haifa.
Lisbon-Azores-Bermuda Route
5.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation when it is proposed to introduce the Lisbon-Azores-Bermuda route of British South American Airways Corporation.
The resumption of this service will be reviewed as soon as the aircraft position permits.
That is another unsatisfactory reply. Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that this route could be a great dollar earner? Will he give the matter his most urgent consideration with a view to getting something on the route?
Yes, Sir; but the only satisfactory aircraft is the Stratocruiser, which costs dollars to buy. The Constellation would only operate on the route with a very reduced payload compared with the North Atlantic operation.
China (Situation)
6.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the situation in China and the steps taken to safeguard the lives and property of British subjects.
Recent developments in the China situation have been fairly fully reported in the Press and there is not much that I would wish to add. The House will be aware that no foreign Government has yet entered into formal relations with the Communist authorities who, indeed, do not claim to have set up a government of national character.
In spite of this, and entirely without prejudice to the recognition question, we had hoped that our representatives in China would be able to maintain day-to-day contact with these authorities for the solution of common problems. Unfortunately, all such contacts have been declined. This situation obviously complicated the task of our Consular officers, whose duties include the safeguarding of local British interests. I think they are to be congratulated on the job they have done so far in very difficult circumstances. Considerable discipline has been shown in the taking over of Shanghai; British lives and property escaped intact except for a certain amount of damage suffered by British residential property at the hands of Nationalist troops in the course of military operations.Are there now adequate forces to enable the right hon. Gentleman to give an assurance that British lives and property will be safeguarded?
I have no forces in Shanghai.
In China generally?
I have no forces in China.
Would the right hon. Gentleman comment on the recent statement in the Press to the effect that naval personnel on board the "Amethyst" are again having difficulty in receiving their mails?
I would prefer a Question to be put down in regard to the "Amethyst" than that I should answer supplementaries about it.
Was not the Question about the forces in China obviously referring to the forces of the Popular Armies, which are clearly able to protect all foreigners and all foreign property?
That is another question.
In connection with the safeguarding of British lives would not the right hon. Gentleman be a big fellow in the truest sense and safeguard them by diplomatic connection with the liberation forces? Is not that the best way?
I hope I am a big fellow in the true sense of the word. I have already told the House that I have asked our Consular officers to contact the authorities but the authorities refuse to speak to us. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman the Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) would send word on to his friends and tell them to be more sensible.
Heligoland (Frisians)
7.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why the Frisians of Heligoland are neither permitted to return to their island, nor to accept the invitation of the North Frisians of South Schleswig to settle permanently on the island of Sylt and why the plans of the British Government with regard to this island and its inhabitants are still kept secret.
There is no secrecy regarding British policy over Heligoland and I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a statement issued on 5th October last by the British authorities in Germany. Nothing is known of any invitation such as that described in the Question, but His Majesty's Government would have no objection to any such invitation being accepted. The Land Government is sympathetic towards the transfer of Heligolanders to Sylt and some 20 persons have been moved from the mainland to Sylt on a voluntary exchange basis.
Can the right hon. Gentleman hold out any hope that these 2,500 Heligolanders, who have now been evacuated for four years from their native island, will be allowed to return to their beloved home?
I cannot give any assurance under that head, but that is not in the Question.
Could my right hon. Friend say whether this island was so heavily bombed during the war that it is unlikely to be habitable for some time?
That is correct.
Who is responsible for the compensation of these Frieslanders and for their present maintenance?
I should like to have notice of that question.
Following is the statement:
The memorandum on Heligoland which was handed to the Regional Commissioners of Schleswig-Holstein, Hamburg and Niedersachsen by their Land Governments has received the careful consideration of British Military Government in Germany. It has been known for some time that the decision to continue using Heligoland as an R.A.F. practice bombing target is causing concern among the population of North-West Germany, but the following explanation should make it clear that this decision is not motivated simply by the desire to destroy an island which has for long been held in affection as a beauty spot and holiday resort.
Heligoland was one of the principal German Naval Bases in two world wars. In the last war it was severely bombed, and after the end of hostilities suffered further damage when its underground defences were demolished. Very little remains of the township—one report states that only six houses can be repaired—and the damage by air raids and demolition has made it necessary for the island to be abandoned.
Suitable targets for the training of a bomber fleet are extremely difficult to find and Heligoland in its present condition is the only place in a reasonably convenient geographical situation which is suitable and available for this purpose. It was only after prolonged discussions between the Air Ministry and the Foreign Office that the decision to continue using Heligoland as an R.A.F. practice target was taken.
The decision will inevitably postpone the commencement of reconstruction but it will not result in further significant damage to the island, let alone in its destruction. Generally speaking, only two types of exercise will be carried out on the island and only one type, namely individual attacks from single aircraft, will involve the dropping of high explosive bombs. During the other type of exercise, mass raids by heavy bombers, the planes will only drop indicators and flash bombs and no high explosive bombs of any type will be used. These practices are not expected to take place more than two or three times a month and it will be obvious that the limited use of high explosive can add but little to the damage which already exists.
Though the Germans' wish to restore Heligoland as a community and as a holiday resort is well understood it must be emphasised that the island contains no natural resources which would contribute towards German recovery and for this reason, its reconstruction must in any case come low on the list of priorities and could not take place for some years to come.
As regards the amount of warning that can be given to fishing boats that wish to use the harbours of the island as a temporary refuge during rough weather, it is unfortunately not possible to give more than forty-eight hours' warning, since plans for bombing practices must necessarily depend on short-term meteorological reports.
Poland (British Subject's Arrest)
8.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement with regard to the case of Mrs. Firth, a British subject employed by the British Embassy in Warsaw, who was arrested by the Polish police a month ago.
Mrs. Halina Firth is of Polish birth and acquired British nationality by marriage in 1928. On 12th April last she was engaged as a translator in the joint Press-reading service of the British and American Embassies in Warsaw and on 13th May she was arrested by the Polish security police. It is understood that she is accused of activities directed against the Polish State.
Under Polish Law Mrs. Firth's position would normally have entitled her to diplomatic immunity, but this has been refused on the ground that no formal notification of her appointment had been made to the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs before her arrest. Although the Polish authorities have recognised that Mrs. Firth is a British subject, they have, so far, refused to allow the British Consul to see her. His Majesty's Ambassador in Warsaw has protested to the Polish Government against Mrs. Firth's arrest and against their refusal to allow her to see the British Consul.How does the right hon. Gentleman propose to carry on the work of the British Embassy in Warsaw if there are these continual arrests of British subjects like this lady and others, like Marie Marynowska, who was arrested over a year ago? Is not the intention to prevent the British Government from carrying on their diplomatic work in Warsaw?
The task of carrying on in countries behind the Iron Curtain is very difficult, and the choice is whether we should break off altogether. Nobody, whether man or woman of the nationality of those countries or approaching the nationality of those countries or who has had the nationality of those countries before marriage, is safe from the N.K.V.D.
Is there nothing more that the right hon. Gentleman can do to safeguard the personal liberty of this lady, who is our fellow-citizen and our servant?
I have taken every possible course open to me except the breaking off of negotiations, and that is a very delicate thing to do. I have protested, and in many cases in these countries behind the Iron Curtain I have taken action by calling for the return of other people. I admit that the situation, with the secret police business, is extremely unsatisfactory.
In view of the right hon. Gentleman's very definite statement that nobody of the original nationality of the countries behind the Iron Curtain is safe when employed in British embassies or legations, could the right hon. Gentleman state if there are any other persons employed in similar countries?
I have sent out messages to the Embassies that the whole thing must be looked into, and they must take care, when they employ such persons that immediate application for the exercise of immunity must be made at once. No risk must be taken at all.
Jerusalem (Holy Places)
9.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will now make a statement on the proposals of the United Nations Conciliation Committee for securing international control under the auspices of the United Nations of Holy Places such as Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Nazareth in the State of Israel.
The Conciliation Commission is charged with the task of submitting to the Fourth Regular Session of the General Assembly of the United Nations detailed proposals for the internationalisation of the Jerusalem area and the protection of the Holy Places. The Commission have not yet published their proposals, and it would be premature at this stage to make any statement.
Will my right hon. Friend say whether they will have power to deal with areas outside Jerusalem such as Bethlehem and Nazareth, and can he give any indication as to when the report is likely to be available?
I cannot tell when the report will be available, but the decision of the United Nations was that the whole area should be internationalised. That is the directive which the Commission has been told to work out with the parties.
South Schleswig (German Refugees)
10.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the offer of the Royal Danish Government to defray the expenses of the transfer of German refugees in South Schleswig to other zones of Germany.
I have no knowledge of such an offer.
Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Royal Danish Government have offered to provide transport, food and transit camps, and that they are awaiting a reply by His Majesty's Government, their desire being to reduce the excessive number of refugees, which in several cases exceeds the native population?
I assure the hon. Gentleman that I have received no such offer.
Us Air Force (Europe)
11.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in view of the outcome of the Foreign Ministers' Conference, and to contribute to the strengthening of mutual confidence among the Powers, if he will propose to the United States Government that the air lift to Berlin be brought to an end, and American Air Force personnel withdrawn from the United Kingdom.
No, Sir.
Can we assume from this brief answer that the Government are not prepared to take any steps to strengthen mutual confidence amongst the Powers?
I think the course we have taken over the last year has restored confidence.
Germany
August Thyssen Steelworks
12.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has received and studied the plan for retaining the August Thyssen steelworks in the German economy, recently presented to the Regional Commissioner for North-Rhine-Westphalia by the German Land Premier, Herr Arnold; and whether, as this advocates control of the organisation by an international committee, he will remove this plant from the list of those to be dismantled and allow this experiment to be tried out.
Despite Press reports to the contrary, Dr. Arnold's own proposals were not submitted to the Regional Commissioner until the morning of Saturday, 25th June. I have not yet studied them, but at first sight they appear to conflict with the recent inter-governmental agreements on reparations and industrial disarmament.
When my right hon. Friend is considering this matter will he bear in mind the very serious unemployment problem which now exists in this part of Germany, and will he, if possible, and if it seems to be at all reasonable, meet the point of view of Herr Arnold?
I cannot lead the German people to believe that the adoption of any subterfuge will alter these agreements. They have been worked out with great care and they are intergovernmental agreements. It is misleading the Germans to let them assume that these war industries are going to be restored to Germany.
In considering this matter will the Foreign Secretary consult with the German Trade Union Congress, and will he also bear in mind the fact that this plant may be useful for turning out steel houses? Will he give every consideration to these points before he orders the destruction of plant which can be turned to good account for Europe?
We have gone into every point. I am not concerned only with the trade unionists of Germany, but with the people of Europe who have suffered German attacks, and this House must always bear that in mind when dealing with these war industries.
The right hon. Gentleman has spoken of the necessity for destruction on the ground of security. In view of the fact that the loss of the plant would largely kill the industry, will not the right hon. Gentleman give the matter careful and sympathetic consideration.
I will give the matter careful and sympathetic consideration, but I am not going to be led into a position, after these months and months of negotiation, where German propaganda and pressure can make me alter my mind. That would only mislead the Germans and would lead to our never clearing up this problem.
Film Industry
13.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs at what date the occupying Powers intend to hand back control of the German film industry to the Germans on a Laender governmental basis.
I am looking into this and will write to the hon. Member.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that if it takes place, the occupying Powers will maintain an effective power of censorship?
I would like notice of questions about censorship in Germany, once the government is established. I would not like to answer off-hand, but I will look into the matter.
Colonial Empire
Industrial Development (Advice)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will seek the advice of the Council of Industrial Design and other industrial advisory bodies in the United Kingdom to assist those engaged in the development of secondary industries in the Colonies in order to improve the design and marketability of their products; and whether, wherever practicable, local facilities will be provided for training suitable personnel in the management of such enterprises.
It is common practice to obtain expert advice on technical questions affecting the Colonies and I should certainly consider taking such advice on any specific question on the design and marketability of articles made in the Colonies that may arise. As regards the second part of the Question, it is the general policy to provide or encourage facilities for training the people of the Colonies to take an increasing share in the operation of secondary industries.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that makers of West African furniture have not had the benefit of the advice on utility furniture from the Council of Industrial Design and that they have lost certain markets for furniture in this country?
I am most anxious that they should have the benefit of the best advice we can obtain for them. The suggestion in the Question is very much in our mind.
Annual Report (Publication)
23.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when he expects to publish the Colonial Empire Annual Report, 1948–49.
The report was published at 4.30 p.m. yesterday as Command Paper No. 7715.
Can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that no undue distress was caused to his Department by the early birth of this Report?
No, Sir. I promised last year that I would get the report out as expeditiously as possible, and that I have done this year.
Leeward Islands (Oil Boring)
20 and 21.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) what has been the cost to date of the geological survey carried out in the Leeward Islands and around the coast of these islands with a view to discovering deposits of oil; and on what date the decision was taken to proceed immediately with under-water boring for oil;
(2) whether he has now completed his inquiries into the immediate plans of the Governor of the Leeward Islands to proceed with under-water boring for oil along the coast of these islands; what will be the approximate cost of this project each year for the next five years; and when boring is to commence.I fear that there is some misunderstanding on this matter. No geological survey of the Leeward Islands has been or is as yet being carried out. The Legislative Council of St. Kitts-Nevis urged last October that a survey should take place with special emphasis on the possible presence of oil. The Governor has been in touch with the Director of Geological Survey in British Guiana regarding this matter, and the situation in these islands will be related to other geological work to be done in the region. I am advised, however, that it is unlikely that the geological structure of the Islands is favourable for the accumulation of oil.
Does the Colonial Secretary mean by that reply that, when the Governor said about four months ago that he had immediate plans —those were his exact words—for proceeding with boring for oil, in fact he had no such plans?
I understand that the Governor meant that he intended to try to find oil after finding water.
While I fail to see the connection between oil and water, may I ask the Colonial Secretary to make it clear that there are no plans to proceed with underwater boring for oil, that there is no geological survey, and that the plan exists only in the imagination of the Governor?
I said that there had been as yet no survey, but that the Governor has been in touch with the Director of Geological Survey, stationed in British Guiana. The survey of this territory and these waters will be related to the general survey going on in the region.
Will the right hon. Gentleman say what the connection is between water and oil?
Malaya (War Damage Claims)
22.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps he is taking for the provision of adequate and increased staff in order to accelerate the investigation and assessment of claims for war damage and rehabilitation in Malaya; and whether, in view of his statement in the House on 14th July 1948, that the present staff was insufficient, and of the loss of interest, etc., to claimants owing to the consequent delays, he will ensure that fully adequate staff is immediately provided.
As the hon. Member is aware, no war damage compensation scheme has so far been implemented, since His Majesty's Government's recent offer is still under consideration by the Malayan Governments. As soon as a scheme is approved, the hon. Member may be assured that I will take all possible steps to assist the Malayan Governments in obtaining any additional staff which they may require.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has not answered that part of the Question which refers to assessments and that it is the resignations from the assessment side that are causing very great delay and hardship? Will the right hon. Gentleman implement the undertaking that he gave on the date mentioned in the Question, to see that these assessments are carried out much more rapidly, and that when the new scheme is put into operation there is no further delay?
I will certainly look into the point with regard to assessments, but in regard to the actual application of the scheme, in which I think there was some difficulty, I promised to do everything in my power, and that promise I will carry out.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether any progress has been made with the problem of goods requisitioned, on which there is considerable feeling in Malaya and about which I have been in correspondence with him?
I would like to have notice of that question. The whole of this problem is being dealt with by the Malayan Government.
Gold Coast
Immigration Regulations
24.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will make a further statement about the Gold Coast immigration regulations.
As I informed the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight (Sir P. Macdonald) on 23rd March, the "Gazette" notice and directive were withdrawn by the Gold Coast Government for re-framing. The representations made by the interests concerned have been fully taken into account, and after discussions in which the Attorney-General of the Gold Coast took part, the Gold Coast Government published a revised notice in the "Gazette" of 18th June. A copy of the revised document has been placed in the Library of the House.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the revised regulations are designed in the true interests of the Colony and not as a mere sop to ill-informed agitation?
I think we have tried to keep in mind in the redrafting of this directive, the criticisms which were formerly made, and that the general principles of policy previously laid down have been adhered to in the latest draft.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the person responsible for the original drafting of these regulations was reprimanded or taken to task for issuing such documents?
I do not accept that as a description of the procedure which was followed.
Junior Schools, Accra
28.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Gold Coast Education Department intends to take over the Church of England junior schools in Accra now closed down through lack of funds.
I have asked the Acting Governor for information and will write to my hon. Friend.
Can we take it that the children who failed to receive education are not receiving it now owing to lack of funds and that we shall accommodate these people when the schools open?
That question raises very difficult points of policy. The matter is within the competence of the local government, and we are watching the matter.
Uganda Disturbances (Inquiry)
26.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the report of the inquiry into the recent disturbances in Uganda may be expected.
The inquiry is proceeding as expeditiously as possible, but I cannot give a date when the Commissioner's report may be expected.
In view of the recent reports that there have been a considerable number of cases of arson and that there is increasing activity of a very serious nature, would it not be advisable to give a directive that a report should be issued as soon as possible?
There is no doubt that the Commissioner is doing his best and working as fast as he can to take the evidence. I am sure that there will be no delay on his part in submitting the report.
Jamaica (Cattle Industry)
27.
asked the Secretary of. State for the Colonies if, in view of the importance of the development of the cattle industry in Jamaica, he will take steps to secure an early appointment to the post of pastures officer, which has been vacant for two years.
The pasture management officer resigned, for personal reasons, in 1947. It was then decided to abolish the post and for the duties to devolve on the permanent establishment of the agricultural department.
In view of the increasing importance of the cattle industry in the West Indies generally, and particularly in Jamaica, would it not be possible to appoint an officer specifically to help the pen keepers in the industry.
That is a matter within the competence of the Government of Jamaica itself, and I have no doubt that they are very much exercised both with regard to the veterinary side of their agricultural department and the desirability of improving stocks as soon as they can.
In view of the fact that the cattle breeders in Jamaica are doing a lot of this work themselves with very satisfactory results in Jamaica, since Jamaica is not paying it own way, is it not better to let the people do the job?
It happens that the agricultural department give advice and help to the stock breeders.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that this problem of the pen keepers association has meant that a demand for the appointment has arisen?
Nigeria (Arrests)
29.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will cause further inquiries to be made into the circumstances of the arrest and sentence within three hours on 17th February at Akoko District, Nigeria, of 82 elderly men arising out of their repudiation of the Oba of Olishua because of his alleged oppression; and why the requested transfer of these cases to magistrates of the Supreme Court was not allowed.
I have asked the Acting Governor for information and will write to my hon. Friend.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that these men are now serving a sentence of a year simply because they refused to recognise the Oba of Olishua whom they accused of oppression? Does not the whole matter require very careful investigation?
The matter is receiving investigation. I do not know that I can do anything more in this matter.
Kenya
Agrarian Bill
30.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what opportunities are being provided for African members of the Kenya Legislative Council to have knowledge of the proposals for improving European agriculture as described in the Agrarian Bill before the Bill comes before the Legislative Council.
The Agrarian Bill has not yet been drafted, but a memorandum describing the proposed substance of the Bill has been made available to all members of the Legislative Council, including the African members.
African Farmers (Aid)
31.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what proposals are envisaged for the provision of cheap finance and other assistance for African farmers in Kenya comparable to the measures proposed to aid European farmers under the new Agrarian Bill.
A Committee is at present considering the ways and means of providing agricultural credit for African farmers.
Is it not the case that these proposals only came before the African members of the Legislative Council long after the proposal had appeared in the Press as the result of my right hon. Friend's discussion with the European farmers? Will he see that what funds are available for agricultural development are fairly shared between the communities according to need?
My hon. Friend must appreciate that the whole system under which the African peasant works is fundamentally different from the system in regard to European agriculture and stock-breeding, and consequently the proposals which are made relate to the specific problems of European farming and do not necessarily apply to African farming. The suggestions which have been made by the Government are in the hands of the Africans through their representatives on public bodies.
Racial Discrimination
34.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that racial discrimination in hotels and restaurants is still widespread in Kenya; and if he will request the Government of Kenya to consider following the precedent set in Nigeria, where licences are refused to hotels imposing a colour bar.
The Government of Kenya are doing what is possible and practicable to break down colour discrimination in the Colony. It is not considered that the introduction of legislation on the lines suggested by my hon. Friend would at present be the best line of advance.
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the great harm which is being done by this continuing affront, which is very deeply resented by educated Africans in particular?
Yes, Sir, and I discussed the whole of the question with the Governor of Kenya when I was in Nairobi the other day. I hope some progress will be made.
Colonial Exhibition
Gold Coast Police (Guard Of Honour)
32.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what opportunities he is providing for the public to see the detachment of the Gold Coast police now in this country.
The detachment, which provided an informal guard of honour when His Majesty The King inaugurated Colonial Month on the 21st June, has come to this country to take part in the exhibition "Focus on Colonial Progress." The men can be seen on duty at the exhibition in Oxford Street daily.
Could not the right hon. Gentleman give the public other opportunities to see these fine figures of men who have a fine record in war and peace? Can he say how long they will be in the country?
It may be that the period of their stay here must come to an end within a week or so, but they have been fully employed at the exhibition apart from one or two other duties which they have undertaken. We are most anxious that the public should have every facility for meeting them, and in a number of cases we have been able to provide that.
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the general satisfaction and pleasure expressed by the public at the methods adopted to present to the people the development in the Colonies during the past few years, and will he take steps to extend the duration of the Colonial Exhibition?
That is another problem which is full of practical difficulties.
Stewards
33.
asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies for how many hours a day the colonial stewards, specially recruited for the Colonial Exhibition, are on duty; and at what rates of pay.
All the colonial stewards are volunteers. They are normally on duty for single periods of four hours, though in some cases they have volunteered to do two periods, amounting to eight hours in all. An honorarium of 5s. for each four-hour period of duty is paid to the stewards for out-of-pocket expenses.
Royal Navy
Service Engagements
35.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many ratings and other ranks of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines completed their first period of service during the past 12 months; how many have not signed on to complete their time for pension; and of these how many were chief and petty officers and equivalent ranks.
During the 12 months ending 30th June, 1949, 4,249 Naval ratings and other ranks of the Royal Marines, including 2,932 chief and petty officers and equivalent ranks, will complete their first period of continuous service. According to reports so far received in the Admiralty, 2,849 of these, including 1,860 chief and petty officers and equivalent ranks, have not signed on to complete time for pension, and have taken their discharge. In a substantial number of cases reports of the men's decision to sign on to complete time for pension or to take their discharge have not yet reached the Admiralty.
Can the Minister tell us what steps are being taken in view of this very serious situation? As one step, would he consider paying a gratuity of £100 to the man who stays in after his first period of service instead of paying it, as under the present arrangements, to the man who goes out?
We are considering a number of possible alternatives, and the one which has been mentioned by the hon. and gallant Gentleman will be taken into account along with many others. I hope that we may get some results.
In view of the figures given by the right hon. Gentleman, does he recall that in the Debate on the Navy Estimates I suggested that the Admiralty might consider the American scheme of shorter periods of re-engagement and that during the Report stage he said that he would consider the point? Has he come to a conclusion yet?
That is one of the points which is being specifically considered along with the others which I mentioned.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is an extremely alarming situation in which these men, who are absolutely the key men in the Fleet, are going out after having learnt their seamanship and the arts of naval warfare? Is it not essential to take steps to make careers in the Navy attractive to these men?
I must remind the hon. Gentleman that we have one difficulty which was not experienced before the war, namely, that we have full employment now, which was unknown before the war.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give any estimate of the cost of replacing a man leaving at the completion of his first period of service?
No, Sir, not without notice.
In view of the right hon. Gentleman's claim that the reason is full employment, is it not truer to say that this indicates the complete failure of the new pay code and the conditions behind it?
No, Sir, certainly not.
36.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many ratings and other ranks of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines will complete their first period of service of 12 years in 1949, 1950 and 1951, respectively.
During 1949, 4,271 Naval ratings and other ranks of the Royal Marines will complete their first period of continuous service. For 1950 the figure will be 5,588 and for 1951, 7,069.
In view of these figures which in the light of the reply to the previous Question make the matter look even more serious unless some improvement can be obtained, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether we have yet reached the position of not being able to man ships for either home or foreign service because of this problem?
No, Sir, we have not.
In view of the terrifying shortage of what used to be described as prime seamen, will the right hon. Gentleman take steps, whatever may be his views about the cause of it, to see that the Fleet is kept efficient by retaining key men in it?
Certainly, Sir. As I have said, we are examining every possible method we can because we realise the seriousness of it and we are determined to get an adequate number of fully trained men.
Ordnance Inspection Officers
38.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he will now make a statement regarding improved pay and allowances for officers serving in the Department of the Chief Inspector of Naval Ordnance.
39.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether the recommendations made by the Madden Committee in regard to the conditions of service of officers in the Naval Ordnance Inspection Department have now been accepted.
I cannot at present make any statement regarding improved salary scales for the officers serving in the Naval Ordnance Inspection Department, but I am hopeful that revised salary scales for these officers will now be settled shortly.
Is it not really disgraceful that there should be this continual delay? It has been going on now for years. Is it not just plain dishonesty by the Government to have enticed these men into this job and not to have fulfilled the promises made to them? May I also ask why the Civil Lord is answering this Question? Has the Parliamentary Secretary run out of answers after the many times he has been answering this subject, including an Adjournment Debate? Why has it now been turned over to the Civil Lord?
The answer to the second part of the supplementary question is that the Civil Lord has always answered these Questions. He certainly answered the Question on the last occasion, as the hon. and gallant Gentleman will see if he looks at HANSARD. As to the suggestion of dishonesty, there is nothing dishonest about this. The Government are trying to settle this matter in a fair and proper way, and consideration tion must take some time because not only the Admiralty, but other Departments have to be consulted.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the salary scales of some of these officers today are lower than they were in 1931, and will he expedite the remedying of this very unfortunate state of affairs?
I can assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that we are doing everything possible to expedite it and we are a little bit more than hopeful that something definite will be announced within two or three weeks.
Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the Madden Committee recommended a substantial increase in the rates of pay and improved conditions in this very important branch of the service?
The Madden Committee certainly made recommendations among which were improved rates of pay for the Department. Obviously that has to receive consideration in the Government.
Is it not the case that the Madden Committee reported 18 months ago, making these recommendations, and that the Civil Lord has now given the House an answer which is even less optimistic than the answers he was giving three months ago?
I have not given a less optimistic answer. What I said was that we are going into the question as quickly as we possibly can and that we hope to give something definite within two or three weeks' time.
Is it not the case that this matter has been under active consideration by the Government for four years? Will the hon. Gentleman really do something about it now?
That is what we are doing.
In view of the unsatisfactory state of affairs, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.
Air Training Elgin (Accidents)
41.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what was the number of fatal accidents which occurred at the air training establishment in Elgin in 1948, and in 1949 to the latest available date.
I regret that it would be contrary to long-established policy to give the information requested.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary look into this matter and at a later stage give an assurance that there is not an undue proportion of fatalities in this training centre, and will he give a further assurance that the number of fatalities that have occurred have not arisen as a result of dual operational control in that area?
Yes, I can certainly give that assurance.
Would the right hon. Gentleman consider publishing these figures for the whole of the Naval air service in addition to one station?
No, I would not. As I have said, it is contrary to established policy to publish them generally and in individual cases.
Royal Naval Reserve (Reconstitution)
42.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the policy of his Department with regard to resuming grants of commissions to suitably-qualified professional Merchant Navy officers.
I am glad to inform the House that following discussions with the Ministry of Transport and representatives of the shipowners and of the officers' and men's organisations, it has been decided to reconstitute the General Service Section of the Royal Naval Reserve and it is hoped that recruiting will re-open in the near future.
In reconstituting this Reserve the Admiralty have had in mind the importance of not imparing the efficiency of the Merchant Navy in time of war. Royal Naval Reservists will not be withdrawn from the Merchant Navy except with the agreement of the Ministry of Transport, who have however, undertaken to release these Reservists to the Royal Navy as soon as possible. In conclusion I would add that the Patrol Service section of the Royal Naval Reserve has also been reconstituted.Can the right hon. Gentleman say what are the numbers involved?
Yes, the establishment we propose to have will be: General Service, 1,400 officers and 2,000 ratings, and Patrol Service, 600 officers and 2,000 ratings.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this decision, which it has taken a long time to reach, will be received with a great sense of relief by the country as a whole?
May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary how much training is it suggested these officers should have over any given period? Are they to go straight in and be given R.N.R. commissions, or have they to qualify and in subsequent years to undergo a further period of training?
That will be worked out in due course and I can let the hon. and gallant Gentleman know later.
In view of the long period that has been taken in arriving at this decision, can the Minister assure the House that full particulars of the scheme will be promulgated in the various shipping companies?
Most certainly, and that was why I was anxious that it should be announced in Parliament before it was announced anywhere else.
In view of the particulars given by the right hon. Gentleman, will the conditions generally be similar to those that were in force before the war?
As I say, we have not worked out in detail what the conditions will be, and I would prefer to await the final working-out before making a definite announcement.
Discharged Personnel (Tuberculosis)
43.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what was the number of personnel discharged from the Navy suffering from tuberculosis in 1947 and subsequent years; and whether such discharged personnel receive X-ray examinations at the time their medical unfitness for further service is determined.
As the answer to the first part of the Question contains a number of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT. With regard to the second part of the Question, all who are under treatment for tuberculosis are given progressive X-ray examinations prior to the decision to invalid them.
Would my right hon. Friend say whether naval personnel may at their own request receive an X-ray examination at such time as they suspect that they may be affected by this disease?
They do; they are always examined.
At their own request?
Yes, they could be examined at their own request now.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are men being discharged without an X-ray examination at present who afterwards discover that they are suffering from T.B.? If they make a claim, will he accept liability?
That is quite another question. We should have to consider individual cases.
Following is the answer:
— | 1947 | |||
Pulmonary | Non-Pulmonary | Total | ||
Male | … | 1,436 | 57 | 1,493 |
Female | … | 65 | 13 | 78 |
Total | … | 1,501 | 70 | 1,571 |
— | 1948 | |||
Male | … | 971 | 63 | 1,034 |
Female | … | 34 | 2 | 36 |
Total | … | 1,005 | 65 | 1,070 |
— | 1949 (up to 31st May) | |||
Male | … | 346 | 15 | 361 |
Female | … | 5 | 1 | 6 |
Total | … | 351 | 16 | 367 |
Prize Money
44.
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether he has any further statement to make concerning the issue of prize money.
It is estimated that up to the end of last week about 430,000 applications had been received at the Admiralty. The qualifying service of many of the applicants has been confirmed and payment is beginning at once. It will inevitably take many months to dispose of all the claims. I am glad to be able to take an opportunity to inform the House that the result of the latest calculations has enabled my noble Friend to fix £4 4s. instead of the £4 stated in the Press as the value of a unit share of prize money.
Although the increase is a small one, we welcome it. May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware how gratified we feel that he took the advice of the mathematicians behind me who, during the passage of the Navy Prize Bill, maintained that if he went back to the till, further money could be found? Is this a final decision or is there a chance of a further examination and still more money being found?
Much as I would like to give the credit to the hon. Gentleman's statisticians, I must give it to the Admiralty's statisticians. We always said the amount would be about £4, and it is four guineas. I may add for the interest of the House that the first remittances will be despatched tonight.
Armed Forces
Contributory Pensions Scheme (Widows)
45.
asked the Minister of Defence what steps are being taken or will be taken to improve the position of existing widows and that of those who become widows prior to the inception of the contributory pensions scheme for the Armed Forces.
While making no commitments I have already undertaken to review some of the regulations governing the existing widows pension scheme in the light of the new contributory scheme when that has been worked out. But as regards the rates of pensions payable under the existing scheme I am afraid I can only repeat that that is a matter which must be governed by pensions increase legislation. The Government have taken the view that any increases in basic pensions should, in future, be on a contributory basis and I cannot therefore hold out any hopes of increases for existing widows as a result of the introduction of the new scheme.
Can the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that existing widows are to have their rates assimilated to the proposed new rates?
I have said that an alteration of rates is not a matter for me at all; it is a matter to be dealt with through the ordinary channel of legislation for general pensions increase. The Pensions (Increase) Act applies to all kinds of pensions, and any matter of that kind must be dealt with through the usual channel.
But could not the Minister say whether this is to be legislation for the future or for the present widow?
I have indicated that the contributory pensions scheme as a whole is for the future, but I have also undertaken that in regard to the existing scheme we will look into the regulations from the point of view of one or two specific points raised by hon. Members, such as the age of the widow, and things of that kind.
48.
asked the Minister of Defence whether the contributory pension scheme for the widows and other dependants of members of the Armed Forces will be compulsory; and when the details of the scheme may be issued.
As I stated on 11th May, the new contributory scheme is being worked out as quickly as possible; a great deal of work is involved. I will make a comprehensive statement as soon as the scheme is ready: in the meantime, as I am sure hon. Members will appreciate, it is difficult for me to discuss particular points.
Will the Minister bear in mind in this connection the demand for a flat-rate pension for the next of kin of former Service men?
I do not know the exact extent of the hon. Gentleman's suggestion. Perhaps he will let me know what he has in mind.
Demobilisation (Clothing)
46.
asked the Minister of Defence what sums a member of His Majesty's Forces is obliged to pay on demobilisation for articles of uniform he is permitted to retain; and what the estimated cost to the Exchequer would be if demobilised members of His Majesty's Forces were permitted to retain such articles of clothing without payment.
I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of the articles of clothing which National Service men are permitted to retain when they are released, together with the prices charged. If this clothing were issued free to all such men the estimated cost in the current financial year would be approximately £750,000.
In view of the comparatively small amount involved, would it not be an excellent gesture to these demobilised ex-Service men to enable them to retain their partly worn clothing? There is a good deal of feeling about this amongst demobilised men, and surely it is an occasion which calls for a handsome gesture?
As a matter of fact only about 30 per cent. have asked to have the clothing. We are not anxious to issue more of this clothing for two reasons. First we do not want a widespread use of Service uniform in private life. Secondly, we want to use the clothing as it comes in after service as much as possible because of the difficulty and cost of getting new stocks. A further point is that in view of the numbers asking for it, if we adopted the suggestion of my hon. Friend I think we should be issuing a large number of articles of clothing to people who would never afterwards use them.
While we agree that it is most desirable that these men should have under-clothing, is it not most undesirable that battledress should be used by civilians, since one does not know whether it is a civilian wearing battledress or a badly turned out soldier, and that brings the Army into disrepute?
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a boy in my constituency had £2 5s. 0d. deducted from his pay because, in order to go home, he had to retain for the purpose of decency a battledress nearly two years in service? Does not the Minister think that in view of the fact that civilian clothing is being refused, this kind of action is inclined to endanger the dignity of the Service, of the country and of the Government?
I should say that the figure mentioned by my hon. Friend would seem to be for more than the actual battledress, but I would like to discuss that matter.
Would not the Minister's point about not wishing to allow Service dress to be worn generally be met by the issue of free civilian clothing to all men on demobilisation? Would he not reconsider his attitude on that?
I have already dealt with that in answer to a Question on 6th April, as the hon. Member knows. It would cost something over £1½ million a year, and I cannot promise to do that.
Does the calculation of my hon. Friend include the garments that men are allowed to retain free of charge?
Yes.
Would not the Minister consider having battledresses dyed before issuing them? That would get over the difficulty.
Many are so dyed.
Following is the list:
ARTICLES OF CLOTHING PERMITTED TO BE RETAINED BY RELEASED NATIONAL SERVICE MEN | |||
Charge
| |||
All Services
| £ | s. | d. |
Pair of shoes, shirt, tie and underclothes and socks, in possession at time of release | Free | ||
Navy
| |||
*Greatcoat | 1 | 5 | 9 |
Uniform suit: | |||
(a) if dressed as seamen | 13 | 6 | |
(b) if not dressed as seamen | 1 | 3 | 0 |
Army
| |||
*Greatcoat | 1 | 18 | 9 |
Battledress | 1 | 12 | 0 |
Royal Air Force
| |||
*Greatcoat | 1 | 18 | 0 |
Battledress | 1 | 12 | 0 |
*National Service men are at present allowed to retain a greatcoat during the winter months only. The estimated annual cost (£750,000) of free issues of Service clothing assumes that all such men would be issued with a greatcoat irrespective of the time of release. |
Food Supplies
Vitamins, Scotland
51.
asked the Minister of Food what proportion of mothers in Scotland are taking up the free or cheap allowances of orange juice, cod liver oil and vitamin pills; and what is happening to the unwanted stocks.
About 25 per cent. of the total amounts of orange juice, cod liver oil and vitamin tablets which mothers are entitled to receive for themselves or for their children are taken up. There are no unwanted stocks since supplies are closely correlated to actual demands.
Trading Accounts
52.
asked the Minister of Food if he will explain the difference of the detailed items on pages 24 to 44 in the Trading Accounts and Balance Sheets 1947–48 (49) referring to commissions and expenses of agents and distributors which total £23,423,747 and the amount on page 50 of £12,684,640 in the consolidated balance sheet.
As the reply to the hon. Member's Question contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
May I ask the right hon. Lady whether her accounts really are correct or whether my total is wrong?
I think the hon. Gentleman has made a few miscalculations, but if he follows my answer carefully and consults the relevant pages he will find that there is no discrepancy.
Following is the reply:
The figure of £23,423,747 includes the two items of remuneration and expenses of milk distributors on page 34 of the accounts which appear separately as "Milk Distribution Expenses £12,619,604" on the Consolidated Trading Account. It also excludes the sum of £1,753,894 on page 46 and the fee of £126,603 shown on page 34 as being paid to the Milk Marketing Board.
Fish Landings, Lowestoft
54.
asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that on 20th June Skipper J. R. C. Reader landed 495 stones of dabs at Lowestoft only one-third of which were sold at 4s. a stone and that the remainder were sent to the farmers for manure at 2d. a stone, whereas the same class of fish was being sold in Ipswich at 14s. a stone; and what steps he proposes to take to ensure that good fish is not thrown away for manure but sold at the proper price to the advantage of the consuming public.
On 20th June, 360 stones of fish, out of about 6,500 stones landed at Lowestoft, were not sold and were sent away for manure. This fish, which included a part of Skipper Reader's catch, was mostly small and thin dabs, for which there is little demand. The fish on sale in Ipswich at the maximum retail price may have come from other ports and were, presumably, of better size and quality. While we are anxious that distributors should pass on to the public the benefits of any reduction in the first-hand price, there is no practicable way of enforcing them to do so.
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether the practice now is to see that at least the best of the fish is being distributed at a cheaper price, and can she assure the House that her Department is not continuing to follow the good old Tory policy of throwing the surplus away?
I should have thought it was quite clear to my hon. Friend that we do not follow the Tory policy—he should know—that and I should say that sometimes his conclusions are a little hasty and that he should ascertain his facts more carefully. As he has studied this matter, perhaps he will give me the benefit of his information and tell me how we can compel retailers to reduce the price?
We certainly cannot compel the retailer. I am talking about the right hon. Lady's Department. Her information is altogether different from that which I have had from Skipper Reader, who has explained exactly what the fish is like, and what he says does not in the least resemble what the right hon. Lady says.
The hon. Gentleman may rest assured that Skipper Reader is quite comfortable. I understand that he will realise over £1,000 from this catch.
Would the right hon. Lady say whether anything is being done to reconsider the whole matter of the sale and distribution of fish in the ports, as the method which has operated has always been very unsatisfactory?
The hon. Gentleman knows that we are always considering this matter and that we have very recently made a great alteration in it.
In view of the right hon. Lady's impertinent reply, may I ask whether there is any justification whatever for throwing fish away merely because——
The hon. Gentleman must remember that Erskine May says that epithets and controversial or offensive expressions are out of Order.
Withdraw!
I will certainly withdraw, but the right hon. Lady should not cry stinking fish.
Animals (Slaughter)
55.
asked the Minister of Food how many animals were slaughtered last year with and without the humane killer of each variety separately; and how many were killed by electric stunning.
1,693,603 cattle, 1,291,958 calves, 5,692,404 sheep and 108,591 pigs were slaughtered in 1948 in slaughterhouses used by my Department. 932,409 pigs were slaughtered in bacon factories. Of these all but about 80,000 cattle, 40,000 calves and 144,000 sheep were killed with the humane killer or by electric stunning. I regret that the numbers slaughtered, by the humane killer as distinct from electric stunning are not separately recorded.