asked the Minister of Supply, seeing that our sale of motor vehicles abroad must unavoidably vary from month to month, if he will consult those in the closest day to day touch with our overseas markets about some longterm arrangements for disposal of cars in the home market.

I am in regular consultation with the motor industry through the National Motor Advisory Council and with manufacturers individually. Manufacturers have been told how many cars they may supply to the home market for the whole of 1950. Separate quotas have been set for each period of three months, but it is open to manufacturers to adjust supply between one period and another provided their totals for the year are not exceeded.

Although the Minister has been having consultations, he never takes the advice of people with whom he consults. Is he aware that if he continues in this way he will create an impossible and ridiculous economic position? Manufacturers will not be able to supply either the home or the foreign market.

The economic situation will be far worse if we do not continue to export a major part of our car manufacture.

Is the Minister aware that we want to export but do not want to get into the stupid jam which he is creating by the present procedure?

asked the Minister of Supply whether he has considered the resolution of the Kingston-upon-Thames Chamber of Commerce, a copy of which has been sent him, on the subject of the restricted allocation of Roods vehicles to the home market for the year 1950; and what action he proposes to take

Yes, Sir; but the Government are not at present prepared to reconsider the policy of limiting the supply of commercial vehicles to the home market.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, before they decided upon that policy, the Government consulted with the representatives of trade and industry?

We are continually having discussions, and I am personally, with this industry and with all other engineering industries.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us of any industry which approves of this move?

That I do not know, but I know that it is essential, so that we should retain our balance of payments abroad and limit our capital expenditure at home, that there should be this limitation.

asked the Minister of Supply if he will give details of the scheme whereby local authority officials and others are able to buy secondhand motor cars from his Department; on what basis the prices are fixed; and whether any restrictions as to resale are imposed

I will, with permission, answer this Question and Question No. 6 together.

On a point of Order. Can the first part of my Question No. 6 which has no connection whatever with Question No. 4, be answered separately?

I think the Questions are closely connected. The hon. Member presumably can ask a supplementary question on the particular point he has in mind.

I think it has been laid down by you, Mr. Speaker, that an hon. Member's permission is required for this procedure, and I think you will agree, and the House will agree that the first part of Question No. 6 has no connection whatever with Question No. 4.

I submit that it is very closely connected but, if it is desired, I will read the same answer twice.

I have no control over the Minister if he chooses to answer both Questions together. I think the hon. Member is wrong. It is not a matter for my permission.

If that is so, Sir, why has it been the custom of the Minister to say, " With the hon. Member's permission " if, in fact, it is not required?

It is not my permission; it is hon. Member's permission. I have nothing to do with it

The answer to both Questions is as follows: Until 31st March last, when the scheme was terminated, local authorities could buy surplus motor cars, but a condition of sale was that the cars should be used solely for the business of the council. The charge was at list price with Purchase Tax, less an allowance for depreciation. Surplus cars are inspected before disposal and are sold only if they are unsuitable for retention

If the price is fixed at the list price less depreciation, does the Minister know that cars only a few years old often command a premium over this price and that by selling them in this way he is depriving the Treasury of money.

Because second-hand cars carry with them usually an artificial scarcity price, an arrangement was come to, in collaboration with the Minister of Health, that cars that local authorities required for their own official purposes should be sold at a special rate. This is a fair rate, but it does not take into account scarcity prices.

Is the Minister aware that his answer that the Government are not prepared to back up this second-hand second-hand car racket will be welcomed throughout the country?

Will the Minister see that cars are made available to local authority officials in my constituency?

rose—

Hon. Members do not seem to have noticed the excellent advice I received from the Father of the House, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Earl Winterton), that one of my very distinguished predecessors used to limit supplementary questions to two, or sometimes three, and very seldom more. We have a lot of Questions to get through, and if we are to get through, the matter might be left to my judgment. I think that the rule mentioned by the Father of the House is a good general rule to adopt.

On a point of Order. In view of the important principle which the Minister enunciated in his reply, about which I was not able to question him, relating to the whole question of disposal, I beg to give notice that I shall attempt to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Supply why Government motor cars, less than three years old, are sold by auction instead of being retained in use; and in what circumstances such motor cars are sold to local authority officials at prices lower than those obtainable at public auction

May I say that it would be sufficient if, in reply to this Question, the Minister read the second part of his answer to Question No. 4?

I have to repeat the answer which I read before, because it is quite impossible to separate the Questions.

Until 31st March last, when the scheme was terminated, local authorities could buy surplus motor cars, but a condition of sale was that the cars should be used solely for the business of the council. The charge was at list price with Purchase Tax, less an allowance for depreciation. Surplus cars are inspected before disposal and are sold only if they are unsuitable for retention.

Is the Minister aware that many of the 2,250 cars sold at this sale, a catalogue of which I have in my hand, fetched far more than the list price for new cars? Does that not show that they were in excellent condition? Does not the fact that the Government are selling cars only two years old mean that they are getting far more than their proper share of new cars?

I am not sure whether I followed the hon. Gentleman's question. These were old cars which were not required—

Two years old.

Over three years old.

No, some less.

If we had sold them by auction they would, no doubt, have fetched higher prices, but because they continued to be used for the public service we sold them at a reasonable price and not at scarcity value.

Are the cars sold to any officials at all? Was not my right hon. Friend's answer that they were sold to the local authorities and not to their officials, coupled with a condition of sale? May I ask whether the condition of sale was always observed?

These cars were sold to local authorities for business use. It appears that the local authority concerned re-sold these cars, in violation of the agreement. to certain officials of the council.

Is the Minister not aware that the first part of my Question refers to cars sold by auction? It has nothing whatever to do with the sale of cars to local government officials. They were cars sold by auction, which fetched far more than the new price.

Obviously, it is the duty of my Department, when selling surplus property, to get the best price possible for it, but I think it is a proper exception, when cars are to continue to be used in the public service, that an appropriate arrangement should be made with the local authorities who are to use them.

Can the Minister say at what rate these motor cars depreciated before sale?

Not without notice.

I will give the right hon. Gentleman notice.

asked the Minister of Supply what steps he proposes to take to ensure fair competition for those trades affected, in view of the fact that Japanese manufacturers have recently shipped to Europe copper wire rods at £90 per ton, while his Department's price was about £160 per ton

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to copper wire rods exported from Japan in August last at £90 a metric ton f.o.b. Japanese ports, when the United Kingdom price of rods was £113 10s. a long ton delivered consumer's works and not £160 a ton as stated in the Question. At that time the equivalent American price was £117 5s. a ton f.a.s. New York. The question of Japanese competition in European markets is a matter for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that had the London Metal Exchange been open, this difference in price would not have worked to the detriment of British manufacturers?

There was very little difference in price, but to purchase this single parcel of copper would have involved an expenditure of dollars which we were not prepared to undertake.

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest that a difference of 25 per cent. is very little?

No, Sir. If the hon. Gentleman will add to the £90 about £15 for costs and freights, etc., he will see that there is little difference between that and the English price.

asked the Minister of Supply what was the average tonnage of ironstone quarried in North Oxfordshire in 1940-45; and what tonnage was quarried in 1949.

The average tonnage of ironstone quarried in North Oxfordshire in the years 1940-45 inclusive was 1.200,000 tons a year. In 1949 the tonnage quarried was 800,000.

Have the Government any plans to reduce unemployment still further by quarrying this ironstone in Oxfordshire?

We do not quarry this ironstone. It is quarried by the iron and steel industry. I do not know whether the hon. Member is anxious that we should take responsibility for it as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Supply if he will increase the supplies of poles and cable to enable some of the arrears of electricity services to be cleared up

I am not aware of a shortage of poles and cables for the distribution of electricity, but if the hon. Member will let me have details of the particular cases of shortage he has in mind I will look into them, in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Fuel and Power.

Is the Minister not aware that the shortage of these materials is causing a delay of up to two years in the electrification of rural areas?

No, Sir. There is certainly no shortage of these materials.

Will the Minister forward to the Hydro-Electric Board in Scotland a copy of his reply and see what they have to say?

asked the Minister of Supply who paid for the £13 loss in labour and material spent on private work at Foxbury Inspectorate of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering

The loss was borne by my Department.

Was no disciplinary action taken against those persons who misused Government time and labour?

Why were they not made to pay for the loss when they abused their privilege?

We thought that a severe reprimand, which they received, was the appropriate course to take on this occasion.

asked the Minister of Supply how many dollars have been received since 1945 from the United States of America for the use of radar patents; and, in particular, the strapped magnetron and the plan position indicator

None, for Government inventions. No information is available about payments to private persons or companies.

Is the Minister not aware that these strapped magnetron patents are in the hands of the Ministry of Supply? I should have thought that it was up to the Minister of Supply to chase these dollars. Is the right hon. Gentle. man not aware that these radar patents are used in every sort of radar equipment in the air, on the ground and for airfield control? This could have been a valuable source of dollars in the last five years and could provide an enormous potential dollar income in the years to come.

It is not a question of chasing the dollars. The situation arose out of the relationship which was established between this country and the United States with regard to this matter during the war. As a result of that relationship, I am afraid that it is unlikely that we shall be able to obtain much in the way of patent licences as a result of inventions developed during the war.

asked the Minister of Supply whether in view of the relatively plentiful supplies of lead now obtainable from non-dollar sources he will now consider abandoning bulk buying of lead by His Majesty's Government and allowing private merchants to import it under a system of currency allocation

As the relative abundance of lead may prove to be only temporary I am not at present prepared to disturb the existing arrangements, which enable us to obtain maximum supplies of sterling metal and to control effectively the expenditure of dollars and other hard currencies. The selling price of virgin lead in the United Kingdom is no higher than in the United States and the Chief Continental countries.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that if it could be decontrolled, the price would go down, as it has done with so many other commodities?

I do not think that that necessarily follows.

asked the Minister of Works what rent he is paying for the office building called St. Anselm's House, for the construction of which he gave a licence; by whom it is to be occupied; and what residential accommodation will be released as a result

St. Anselm's House is being occupied by the British Council. This will enable me to make available for housing purposes Nos. 38, 39 and 41-43, Grosvenor Square and Nos. 39 and 41, Adams Row. It is contrary to the practice of my Department to disclose rent which is being paid for premises.

Before this British Council building was sanctioned, was the Minister's Department satisfied that the amount of residential accommodation which would be released was at least equal to what might have been built by the labour and materials used for the office?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we never build if we can help it. It is only when we are sure that that is the case that we go ahead.

Could my right hon. Friend say whether this building is one of those which are being put up under what is known as the Lessor Scheme, and, if so, is he aware of the widespread concern among architects and others about the quality and design of some of these buildings?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Works whether sufficient licences are now being issued for wood and stone carving to maintain full employment of carvers and to promote the survival of these crafts

I have no precise information as to the number of qualified carvers in wood and stone in the country. Some of them may not be employed in their own craft, but I am not aware of any unemployment. My officers are instructed to grant licences as freely as possible for this work, and I hope to see a revival of these crafts.

Does that answer mean that it is the intention of the Minister to maintain full employment for these people and to encourage these crafts?

Yes, most certainly.

asked the Minister of Works whether he proposes to take over Temple Bar as an ancient monument

My Ministry offered last year to take over Temple Bar as an ancient monument. The owners did not accept as they feared that this would mean that the monument would remain indefinitely at Cheshunt, instead of being brought back to London as they wished. My Department could not pay for removal to London but we would not object to removal, subject to being satisfied that there was no risk of damage and that the site proposed was suitable.

Would not the Minister agree that it is desirable that Temple Bar, in view of its historic associations, should be restored to London at some place where it would cause no traffic inconvenience, and might not the Embankment end of the Temple be an appropriate site?

Yes, Sir, certainly. I think the suggestion is a good one, but the authorities concerned would have to be consulted first.

asked the Minister of Works if, in view of the urgency of the housing position, he will further reduce the ceiling for industrial building without a licence

No, Sir; I do not think it necessary.

Could my right hon. Friend tell me if he considers that all the work done in this way is essential, and how many building trade workers are employed?

There is really no evidence to show that the housing programme is being affected by people being drawn off for this kind of work.

Do I understand that the policy of the Minister, not to build if he can help it, does not apply to Government buildings?

I hope it will be very clear to every Member of this House that I referred to Government buildings and not to housing, and that we are as economical as we can be in providing offices for the purpose referred to in the other Question which was asked.

Does not my right hon. Friend think he should find out how many building trade workers are swallowed up in this type of building?

There is no indication of that. There is another Question on the Order Paper about this matter, and if my hon. Friend waits until it is reached, I think he will be satisfied.

What does the hon. Gentleman the Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mr. Baird) mean by " reduce the ceiling "?

asked the Minister of Works when the new temporary office building to be erected in Aberdeen is to be completed

Tenders for this project are at present under consideration and subject to a satisfactory contract being let it is hoped that the building will be completed early in 1952.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will release the many residential premises which are held by his Department and now used for office buildings?

In so far as they are affected by this, as soon as possible thereafter.

asked the Minister of Works whether, in view of the increase during the past year of 3 per cent. in the number of building workers employed on projects other than housing, he will take steps, in consultation with the Minister of Health, to secure that this 3 per cent. of building labour is steered into the construction of new permanent houses, especially in view of the increased allocation of capital expenditure on housing during the next three years

About half the building labour strength is engaged on house construction or repairs to housing, the actual number of new houses showing a slight increase compared with a year ago. My hon. Friend may rest assured that the control over building work will be such as to permit of whatever adjustment may be necessary to ensure fulfilment of the new programme.

Would the Minister divide that answer, which he has lumped together? Is it not a fact that only about 26 per cent. of building trade operatives are now working on housing and that before the war there were between 33 and 34 per cent.?

I think the hon. Gentleman is wrong. It is just about the same as before and there has been quite a steady though slight increase in the number of people engaged on new housing.

In view of the reply which my right hon. Friend gave me last week, that there is 3 per cent. more building trade labour employed on other than housing work, does it not automatically follow that there must be fewer employed on housing work? Will my right hon. Friend do something to correct that?

With great respect, I think my hon. Friend is confusing percentages with figures. There is a great difference. The actual number employed on new housing has increased though, I agree, only slightly. The shift has been from repairs and maintenance to the building of schools and other important buildings, but the actual number engaged on new housing is appreciably in advance of what it was a year ago.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread dissatisfaction in all parts of this House and in the country at the lack, of effort which is being put into permanent house building?— [HON. MEMBERS: " No."] Would he consider, at an early date, explaining to the House what are the principles which govern the allocation of building resources to the various classes of building projects?

If the right hon. Gentleman is referring to labour resources, I can reassure the House that the allocation is quite adequate for the house building programme, and that it is sufficient to continue the programme which is at present envisaged by the Government.

Which is entirely inadequate.

asked the Minister of Works what steps he proposes to take to stop the drift of building and civil engineering labour from housing and urgent reconstruction projects to less essential repair and maintenance work; and whether he is assured that the £100 limit for unlicensed repair and maintenance work is not being grossly exceeded in many instances

I am not aware of any drift of building and civil engineering labour from housing and urgent reconstruction projects. On the contrary, the numbers employed on the erection of new houses and on site preparation have tended to increase in the last year, and there has been a reduction in those engaged on repair and maintenance work. I have no reason to suppose that the £100 limit for unlicensed work is being grossly exceeded, but if the hon. Lady has any particulars I will have them immediately examined.

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that in some cases local authorities are finding it impossible to build up to their allocation of houses because of the drift away of labour? Is he prepared to take steps to stop that?

Yes, I am prepared to take action if somebody will furnish me with the facts. The facts as I know them are that this labour is not interchangeable. It is a great mistake to suppose that the labour engaged on repair and maintenance is necessarily interchangeable with that for the building of new houses. This percentage difference makes no sense whatever unless people who quote it are properly informed as to the division of labour in the building trade.

Why is it that with the same labour force now as there was in 1938, the Government are building only about half the number of houses?

I do not think that is the case.

How does my right hon. Friend assure himself that the proper amount of labour is engaged on housing and is not being diverted to this non-licensed work?

I am in constant touch with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, and his programme is being fully fulfilled. There really is nothing to worry about on this score, so far as I am aware.

Can my right hon. Friend tell me whether there is any estimate of the amount of non-licensed work which is being done?

Yes, but my hon. Friend will have to put the question down before I can answer it.

asked the Minister of Works how many licences have been issued for blocks of offices in the London area to be occupied by the Government under the Lessor Scheme; what is the capital sum involved; and how many similar licences have been granted for office accommodation for non-Governmental use during the same period, and to what value.

Since August, 1947, 40 licences to the total value of £10,137,470 have been granted for offices for Lessor Building Schemes. In the same period, about 275 licences, to the total value of some £6,300,000, have been granted for office accommodation for non-Governmental use.

In view of the great shortage of offices in London, is it not time that a greater percentage of these licences was given to non-Government offices?

I know there is that view, but I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that the figures I have given exclude any licences for a sum of less than £5,000. It is only a direct comparison of the bigger schemes, as the Question asked. There is a considerable amount of office accommodation made available which costs less.

While welcoming the assent of my right hon. Friend a minute ago to the proposition that there is widespread concern about the poor quality of design of these buildings, may I ask if he will consult with the Minister of Town and Country Planning to see what can be done to prevent the further defacement of London?

I have that constantly in mind, I can assure my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Works whether, in view of the Report of the Hotels Committee of the former British Tourist and Holidays Board into hotel services in Great Britain from the user's point of view, he can see his way to reverse his decision not to increase from £100 to £500 per annum the amount which can be spent on the repair or improvement of hotels, without licence

No, Sir. I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Weston-super Mare (Mr. Ian Leslie Orr-Ewing) on 13th March.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise how difficult this is making things for the hotel keepers with regard to our own tourists, and even more particularly with regard to foreign tourists, who want to get some extra Amenities?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the foreign tourist gets extra priority. The Board of Trade sanctions, and asks me to license, hotel extensions and improvements where foreign tourists are concerned. Beyond that I cannot go at present.

Can my right hon. Friend explain to the House how he proposes to increase the rate of house building, to increase the rate of office building and to increase the rate of hotel building without in any way exceeding the capital investment which the Opposition is continually begging him to keep down?

I think I ought to have notice of that question.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say why he does not treat the hotel industry like any other industry and give them the same limit of £1,000?

Because the arrangement is that preference is given to those hotels which really form part of our tourist trade, particularly those who are concerned with the dollar visitors.

But Why treat them differently?

Because that is found to be the most convenient way of dealing with the situation.

asked the Minister of Works the nature and purpose of the excavation begun last week in the staircase of Westminster Hall

The object is to adjust the level of the steps at the south end of Westminster Hall, which have been sinking for some years. A sharp eye will be kept for any sign of the King's Stone, in which my hon. Friend has shown so much interest.

asked the Minister of Works if he is aware that the continuing shortage of cement in North-East Essex is causing concern; and what action he intends to take to improve supplies

Supplies of cement to this area are higher than ever before. If, however, the hon. Member is aware of any important work being held up by a shortage, perhaps he will let me have particulars.

Is the Minister aware that it is generally known that throughout North-East Essex there is a serious shortage of cement and that this is attributed to the continued high level of the export of cement and the failure of the Government to make up stocks after their extensive use during the last few months?

I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that cement has not been nationalised. The position is that there has been a record distribution during the last week or so. [Laughter.] Well, there is such a thing as coming events casting their shadows. I do not think there is anything to worry about.

asked the Minister of Works how many projects sponsored by Departments of State and concerned with reconstruction in the cities of Bristol, Coventry, Hull, Liverpool, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Southampton and Swansea, respectively, and in the City and County of London, were awaiting licence by his Department on 1st April last; and what is the total sum of capital expenditure involved for each of the cities indicated above

I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply of 24th April. The value of the schemes there mentioned was approximately £375,000 at Bristol, £700,000 at Plymouth, and £35,000 at Swansea. In the City and County of London there are a number of schemes for reconstruction which it has been impossible hitherto to fit into the investment programme, but I cannot put a definite number or value upon them.

I understood from the answer to that Question that my right hon. Friend was talking only about schemes that came before his Department directly, and not schemes sponsored by other Ministries. I put this further Question down to get an overall figure of reconstruction projects, of both schemes he directs and those which come to him sponsored by other Ministries.

This would cover everything except housing.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many of his appointments to the Gas Consultative Councils have been coal and coke merchants; and, in view of the inescapable clash of interest, whether he will undertake to make no further such appointments

There are 12 Area Gas Consultative Councils, with a total membership of 288. Of the 288, two members are known to be associated with the coal and coke trade. They were both chosen from the panels nominated by the associations of local authorities. I have every confidence in the judgment and integrity of the associations; and I am sure that in all their work in the Consultative Councils these two members will put their public duty first.

Is the Minister not aware that this Question is directed to future appointments, that the responsibility is his, and that all nominating local authorities or other bodies may not be aware of this clash and the extent to which coke deliveries for coke contracts are matters of the pleasure of the area boards? Will he consider it for the future?

No, Sir, I am sure that the nominating authorities—the associations—have, in fact, considered all such things and have all such information, and I am not prepared to give the pledge which the hon. Member desires.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is aware that his appointments to the Gas Consultative Councils include nominations by the Standing Joint Committee on Working Women's Organisations; whether he is also aware that this organisation is related to the Executive Committee of the Labour Party, as an advisory committee; and whether, in view of the fact that such politically-nominated appointments when confined to one party are open to objection, he will undertake to make no such further appointments

In making his appointments to the Gas Consultative Councils, my predecessor sought to ensure the adequate representation of the special interests of women. He therefore invited the National Council of Women, the National Federation of Women's Institutes, the Women's Gas Council, the Women's Voluntary Services and the Standing Joint Committee of Working Women's Organisations to nominate candidates from among whom he could choose. He included the Standing Joint Committee in his list not because of any political affiliations but because it represented a large body of working class women. The Standing Joint Committee has been consulted by Governments of all parties on a variety of women's questions since its foundation in 1916, and it has acted in an advisory capacity to a number of official bodies and Government committees. This being so, I cannot accept the suggestion which the hon. Member has made.

Is not the Minister aware that this is the only one representing a political body among those bodies, and that the purport of this Question is that he is receiving nominations from a body which is an advisory body to a political party, and whose membership is confined to members of that political party?

Yes, Sir, but it was asked to make nominations because it represents a very large number of working class women. People of all political parties belong to the other organisations which I have mentioned. [HON. MEMBERS: " No."] They nominate to the Councils, and I am convinced that all of them, understanding that this has nothing to do with politics, will do their duty, whatever party they belong to.

Is it not a fact that this organisation is not the only one of these women's bodies which has political affiliations, but the only one which is honest enough to make its political affiliations apparent?

Will the right hon. Gentleman also ask for nominations from Conservative women's organisations and Liberal women's organisations?

I will certainly consider it, if I can be sure that they represent many women not represented by these other bodies.

Is it not a fact that this organisation contains not only women who are affiliated to a political party but representatives of trade unions and representatives of Co-operative organisations?

Is it not desirable that those bodies should be represented on these Councils?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many millions of working class women voted Conservative and Liberal at the last Election, and that they would scorn representation by a Socialist organisation?

I am sure they are quite adequately represented in the Gas Consultative Councils.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter again on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will consider establishing basic standards for coal, based upon calorific value, in supplementation of the present system of classification into varieties within which enormous variation in calorific value can and does occur

No, Sir. The grading of coal is a matter for the National Coal Board. The Board's price structure cannot be based solely upon calorific values. In house coals, strong local preferences exist, and prices are fixed largely on the basis of commercial experience; in industrial coals, factors other than calorific value must also be taken into account. Broadly speaking, however, the present prices of different varieties of coal do reflect both their calorific values, and their other important characteristics, for example, size, ash, moisture and sulphur contents, hardness, etc. Large variations in the calorific value of any given coal are infrequent. If they do occur, they are dealt with in an ordinary commercial way between buyer and seller.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that coal has never been legally defined, and that well-known varieties often contain all sorts of foreign bodies varying from shale to carboniferous limestone? Since basic standards have been established for other nationally important commodities, why not for coal?

The National Coal Board have the hon. Gentleman's view very much in mind, and they have begun and have already carried a considerable distance quite new and very important work on scientific analysis and grading, which ultimately will help all consumers.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that much of the coal which the ordinary consumer buys from his merchant contains a great deal of water?

Do we understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that he has no control whatever over the prices charged by the National Coal Board or any authority over the quality of coal they deliver?

No, Sir, I did not say any such thing. In fact, prices are fixed in agreement with me.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power in how many coal mines in North Staffordshire is dust suppression by water spray and seam infusion in use; and what is the number of coal mines in which it is proposed to use this method of dust suppression ultimately

There are 20 large coal mines in North Staffordshire operated by the National Coal Board. In 15 of them, dust suppression by water sprays is in use. In the other five large mines, and in the smaller licensed mines, the evidence so far obtained seems to show that dust suppression measures are not required. Water infusion of the coal seams has not been used in North Staffordshire at all.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what use has been made of chemical detergents in the suppression of dust in coal mines; and how far they have been proved to be of value.

The use of chemical detergents as wetting agents in the suppression of dust is under experimental trial at many coal mines. They are giving promising results, particularly in the consolidation of deposits of dry dust on mine roadways and in mines where the underground conditions make it desirable to use as little water as possible. The National Coal Board and His Majesty's Inspectors of Mines continue to give close attention to the matter.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a reduction in the over-all humidity in coal mines for the men at work would be very welcome and very beneficial; and, on the general question, is he satisfied that the process of using water infusion is beneficial to the men's health?

In some places it has helped very much indeed, particularly in the Cumberland coalfield.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many men coming out of the Armed Forces have passed through the Coalmining Training Scheme

During the last six months of 1949, the number of new entrants into the coal mining industry who had been Regulars in the Armed Forces and who received preliminary training in accordance with statutory requirements was 138. This figure does not include new entrants who joined the industry after the completion of their National Service, as such men are not classified separately from other new entrants.

Is the Minister aware that there is a very real suspicion that a lot of men coming out of National Service are taking advantage of this valuable training at the State's expense and then promptly leaving the industry; and will he look into that?

Yes, Sir, I will look into it, although I do not think it is true. Of course, a certain number of men who think they will join are not really suitable. Altogether, some 10,000 adults completed their training last year and about 700 left during their training.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will furnish an estimate of the total planned coal production of the opencast workings projected in the Abberley area of Worcestershire and referred to on site plans "The Elms, M.O.F.P.-M/9/551 /1," and " Crundle, M.O.F.P.-M /9 /550 /1," in respect of each of the years 1950, 1951 and 1952.

Before any production can be planned borings must be made to ascertain that the quality and the quantity of the coal would justify the working of the seams. These borings have not yet begun in the Abberley area, and I cannot, therefore, give the estimates for which the hon. Member asks.

Does the Minister realise that during the last 50 years innumerable attempts have been made to extract coal from this area, and that all have proved abortive and uneconomical on account of the thin and narrow seams of low-grade sulphurous coal? Will he therefore take steps to prevent any wastage of public funds in further open-cast mine boring?

I will consider what the hon. Gentleman says, but he must understand that we do things much better nowadays.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what percentage of the additional gross output obtained by the National Coal Board since nationalisation of the mines consists of stone

The figures invariably used in published statements of coal output are for saleable coal. This has risen from 181.2 million tons in 1946 to 202.7 million tons in 1949. No information is available as to the average percentage of dirt contained in the total saleable output before nationalisation, nor is it yet practicable to provide a reliable assessment of the average dirt content of the saleable coal now being produced.

Is the Minister aware that the estimate of the President of the British Association of Colliery Management is that 33 per cent. of the output is stone; and if he has not seen this statement, may I send a copy to him?

Mr. Walton Brown's views are entitled to every respect, but if he meant that one-third of the extra output which is going to the consumer is dirt, I could not 'possibly accept it.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the right hon. Member for Bromley (Mr. H. Macmillan) described pre-nationalisation coal as fit only for crazy paving?

Is the Minister aware that what he calls " saleable coal " includes just what the National Coal Board will sell the consumer, which includes dirt as well as coal?

It is what the people will buy.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how the price of coal exported to the Argentine compares with similar coal sold inland

I do not fix or control the export prices charged by the National Coal Board, and I do not think it desirable to ask the Board to disclose the prices they receive for their foreign sales.

As the Board of Trade returns show the quantity exported and the f.o.b. price, would it be too difficult for the right hon. Gentleman to ascertain the information?

How does the quality compare?

It varies according to what the people abroad want to buy.

But are not these prices fixed in consultation with the right hon. Gentleman in exactly the same way as he stated just now home prices are fixed?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will make a statement regarding the extent to which the National Coal Board acts as a retailer in supplying householders with coal direct

Under the Coal Mines Act, 1946, a number of retail businesses which had been owned by colliery companies were transferred to the National Coal Board. In paragraph 285 of the Annual Report for 1947, the Board said that they were working about 840 retail depots, which served about 410,000 retail customers. I understand that the position has not greatly changed since then.

is the Minister aware that many coal merchants in the north-west of England have been unable to get their allocation of coal, and that in consequence householders have been without fuel? Will he see that there are fair shares for all?

Yes, Sir, certainly, and there are. The allocation of coal to each region or district is done on a perfectly fair basis for all.

In view of the very unsatisfactory reply, I give notice that I shall endeavour to raise this matter on the Adjournment at an early date.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what immediate action he is taking to overcome the acute shortage of coal in North Oxfordshire

I have written to the hon. Member informing him of the steps that have been taken to assist the North Oxfordshire area.

Is the Minister aware that there is an acute shortage of coal in North Oxfordshire, that the " fair shares " in the Cotswold area have been fair shares of nothing during the last month; and that there has not been such an acute shortage since the period known in history as the Shin well wakes?

In the early part of April, 500 tons were sent; on 18th April another 100 tons and 250 tons have been allocated for May supplementary to the normal allocation.

Will the Minister remember that many of the village people in this area use their coal not only for heating purposes but also for cooking, and will he do all that he can to see that they get an adequate supply?

If a consumer is in difficulty, he ought to consult the local fuel overseer, who will do his best to help, and of whose courtesy I am constantly hearing great praise.

Can my right hon. Friend say how the people who had a grievance about the quantity or quality of their coal before nationalisation of the coal industry made their grievance known?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to prevent the Lancashire coal miners from reselling their concessionary coal

None, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind, when considering fair shares for all, that these people are receiving four times as much coal as most people? Does he not think that he ought to take steps to see that they do not resell it at a large profit?

Miners need a great deal more coal than other people owing to the nature of their occupation. [HON. MEMBERS: " Oh !" I Of course they do. The existing orders and regulations are quite adequate to prevent anything of the kind that the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a great deal more honesty and scrupulousness in the Lancashire miner than there is in the hon. Gentleman who put down the Question?

The Minister said that the existing regulations were adequate. Will he tell us precisely what they are?

They are rather bulky. There are the Retail Coal Prices Order, 1941, and the Coal Distribution Order, 1943—I will send the hon. Member copies.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that the miners know them all?