asked the Minister of National Insurance why the book values of the securities of the National Insurance (Reserve) Fund are described in the 1948–49 accounts as cost price, when in fact they were market values on 5th July, 1948, at which date depreciation of the absorbed funds amounted to £12,867,972; and when this will be corrected.

The hon. Member is under a misapprehension. These securities are shown in the accounts of the National Insurance (Reserve) Fund for 1948–49 at market value as on 5th July, 1948.

That is utterly incorrect. It gives the cost price. Will the right hon. Lady explain why the expression "Cost price" is used for a column of figures which bear no relation to cost prices?

The hon. Baronet really must not make these statements in such an emphatic way. Here are the accounts. He has a copy in his hand. If he looks on page 10 under "Receipts" he will see "Investments transferred at market value as at 5 July, 1948." I suggest that in future he reads the accounts carefully.

Will the right hon. Lady look at page 12 with its "Statement of Securities, &c., held at 31 March, 1949," where she will see, in the middle column headed "Cost price," the figures I have mentioned?

The hon. Baronet alleges that the accounts do not contain the market value, and I have pointed out that it is given on page 10. If he looks through the whole of the accounts, he will probably find that this sum is mentioned on other pages. I must remind him and the House that he fell into the same error last week, simply because he refrained from reading the document.

Will the right hon. Lady be good enough to consult the Treasury on this matter, when I think she will find there is some substance in the contention of the hon. Baronet? The heading of this column is certainly open to grave misinterpretation.

I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree that I have to address myself to the Question. He will find that the answer I have given is perfectly correct.

Will the right hon. Lady say what is the loss on revaluation and where it is accounted for?

Certainly. It is in the accounts, if the hon. Gentleman cares to read them.

Will the right hon. Lady be good enough to consult the Treasury, because if she does I think she will find that they substantially agree with the point made by the hon. Baronet?

With due respect, the right hon. Gentleman cannot teach me my job. I have read the Report of the Public Accounts Committee, in which I know the hon. Baronet takes a great interest. I understand the position perfectly well. The fact is that the hon. Baronet, I think, is a member of the Public Accounts Committee and he did not attend the meeting. In future, if he attends the meetings, he will not fall into these errors.

Will the right hon. Lady be good enough to recollect that I did attend the meeting?

I cannot answer that question.

Does the right hon. Lady remember, from her experience at the Ministry of Food, that points are one thing and personal points are another, and it is the former rather than the latter that we expect from the Minister at Question Time?

On a point of order. Is the right hon. Lady in order in referring to the proceedings of a Committee which has not yet reported to the House?

The fact is that a Report of a Select Committee which has not been reported to the House should not be quoted here.

I am referring to the accounts before me, before the hon. Baronet and before the whole House.

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether she will now take steps to prescribe dupuytren's contraction under Section 55 of the Industrial Injuries Act, 1946, in view of the case of Mr. John Kiley of 12 Green Lane, Rugeley.

The claim of Mr. Kiley is now before the Industrial Injuries Commissioner on appeal and I am, therefore, unable to comment on any implications it may have.

Will my right hon. Friend ask the Commissioner to show more expedition in this case which has been before him for a long time; and, secondly, will she consider, in view of the need to provide more evidence about the incidence of this disease, circularising the trade union medical authorities to try to secure further evidence, so that she may prescribe it in the Act?

I would ask my hon. Friend to ask any trade union with which he is in contact to furnish me with particulars of any case, and I shall be only too happy to look at it. I would remind him that the regional officer in Birmingham has furnished my Department so far with only one case.

asked the Minister of National Insurance (1) by what means a workman, insured under the Industrial Injuries Act, who is unable to appeal against a provisional assessment within two years of its being made, can obtain information as to the reasons for the findings of the medical board;

(2) whether she is aware that in some cases of industrial injury, medical boards make a provisional assessment coupled with an estimation of loss of faculty, terms offset, or not due to the injury itself; and whether she will give instructions that in every such case a full diagnosis be given to the injured workman or his trade union representative.

Under the regulations claimants for disablement benefit receive written summaries of the Medical Boards' findings. Subject to a few exceptions made on medical advice in the claimant's own interest, these summaries should include the diagnosis of abnormal conditions, whether or not they were caused or made worse by the accident. If my hon. Friend has any particular case in mind perhaps he will bring it to my attention.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that very helpful answer, is she aware that there are cases that exist where these provisional assessments are made, and during the two years information is refused to the injured workman or to his trade union advisers?

No, but I think that I can undertake, if my hon. Friend has any case in mind, for the summaries which are given in the initial stage to be amplified, so that no information is withheld from any man who is anxious to have it.

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether she is aware that a workman injured at work is unable to appeal against an assessment of his loss of faculty except on the question whether the loss of faculty is likely to be permanent or not; that the insurance officer has a right to appeal, although the workman has not; and what alteration in the regulations is contemplated in order to remedy this disparity.

My hon. Friend no doubt has in mind rights of appeal against provisional assessments. These are limited by the Statute, but I am watching the working of the relevant provision with special care.

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether she is aware that a certificate given by a general medical practitioner placing a person in quarantine cannot be accepted for a benefit claim; and, in view of the fact that this casts a slur upon such a practitioner, whether she will take the steps necessary to amend the National Insurance (Unemployment and Sickness Benefit) Regulations in this respect.

The Medical Officer of Health is responsible for action to prevent the spread of infectious disease, and it is in accordance with the recommendation of the National Insurance Advisory Committee that he is also the authority for the issue of insurance certificates in these cases. This implies no slur on general practitioners and I see no reason to alter the present provision.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that when persons are placed in quarantine they are supposed to isolate themselves, and is it, therefore, a wise policy to require such persons to travel all over the town, probably by public transport, to locate the local medical officer of health in order to obtain two certificates—one from their own practitioner and one from their own local medical officer?

When an individual is in quarantine in a household there must be a person in the same house who is suffering from an infectious disease, and the sequence of events is this: the individual suffering from the infectious disease obtains a certificate in the first place, and a nurse probably calls at the house within the next 48 hours. As the medical officer of health has to certify the condition for the sake of the person in quarantine, it is quite possible for him to obtain a certificate from the medical officer who calls to see the patient.

Will the Minister undertake to see that something is done to facilitate the obtaining of the certificate from the local medical officer of health, because I assure the Minister that persons are having difficulty in finding the local medical officer of health and obtaining his certificate? Could some circular be issued to facilitate the procedure?

I do not understand the hon. and gallant Gentleman's objection. I understood that he objected to these certificates being given by the medical officer, and now he is asking me to facilitate this.

I was satisfied with the Minister's explanation. I now want her to advertise it locally so that it is made easy for persons to obtain the certificate of the local medical officer of health. I am quite satisfied with her explanation as to why it is necessary; now I want her to facilitate the procedure.

The person who knows it is the general practitioner, and he tells the patient who is suffering from the infectious disease, and the patient then tells his relation.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of prosecutions initiated during each of the years 1948 and 1949 by the Inspectorate of Factories, in respect of contraventions of the Factory Acts by nationalised industries, and the aggregate of fines imposed.

In 1948 there were four prosecutions against nationalised undertakings out of a total of 891, and in 1949, nine out of 1,080. The aggregate fines were £86 and £148 5s. respectively.

In spite of the very small aggregate total of these fines, does the Minister realise that when such a fine is imposed on nationalised industries it is tantamount to fining the community and the taxpayer, and, what does he propose to do to remedy this anomalous and slightly ridiculous position?

I do not accept that there is any anomalous position whatever.

asked the Minister of Labour why he has not yet made available the Report of the National Joint Advisory Committee on Restrictive Practices, in view of the fact that this Report was ready for presentation on 30th March.

My right hon. Friend regrets that through inadvertence his reply to the hon. Member's supplementary question of 30th March incorrectly stated the position. In fact the matter was still under the consideration of the parties and that is the present position.

Having regard to the delay of more than seven months since the Minister first promised to obtain t port, does he not now think that it would be a good thing to accede to the suggestion I made on 30th March that there should be an independent inquiry into this matter?

No, Sir.

Is not this a matter which is not taken with sufficient seriousness by the hon. Gentleman? He first misleads the House and then says that he is not going to do anything about it.

I do not accept the word "mislead" in that connection. It is true that my right hon. Friend tried to give information to the House in a supplementary answer, and neither he nor, I think, any other hon. Member would claim infallibility.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has taken any steps to educate workers in industry on the advantages of greater mechanisation and thereby reduce opposition when improved methods of production are introduced.

This is a matter that concerns the two sides of industry and my right hon. Friend has been giving every support and encouragement to the establishment of joint consultative machinery through which such questions are discussed and the understanding and cooperation of the workpeople obtained.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that recently there have been many cases in industries like the tobacco industry and at the docks where there have been some labour suspicions and fears regarding the introduction of mechanical aids to industry? This is a matter for both sides of industry, and will the Minister assure us that he will do more to get the two sides together by cooperation and education?

I accept the point which the hon. and learned Gentleman makes. We do everything in our power, but he must realise that mechanisation is going ahead at such a momentum that it is necessary to carry the people with us and not to impose this kind of thing; otherwise we shall have trouble in industry.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) when he will be able to publish his arrangements for the provision of employment facilities for tuberculous disabled persons;

(2) whether he is aware that, without avail, repeated requests have been made to his Department for a clear expression of the respective responsibilities of the central and local authorities with regard to persons suffering from tuberculosis; and if he will now make a statement on this matter.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the provision in the Disabled Persons (Employment) Act which enables my right hon. Friend to make payments to a local authority having powers under any other enactment to provide facilities for the employment of severely disabled persons, including the tuberculous. Certain questions relating to the powers under which local authorities can provide such facilities are being considered inter-departmentally and a statement will be made in due course.

As regards the provision of employment facilities generally, disabled tuberculous persons who are available or work are submitted to any employment which is regarded, on medical advice, as within their capacity and in other respects suitable for them. In addition, Remploy, Limited, have at present five special factories which employ them in sheltered conditions.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this inter-departmental inquiry has been going on for so long that the local authorities are very much of the opinion that the delay is due to the desire of the central authority not to meet their just liabilities and responsibilities in this matter and to leave them with the local authorities?

I assure my hon. Friend that that is not the case.

Will not the Minister arrange for the appropriate trade unions to issue cards to these disabled people so that they can be taken into work alongside trade union members?

Generally speaking, the trade unions do that.

asked the Minister of Labour in view of the wide interest in the subject of joint consultation, what steps he is taking to bring the subject more closely to the attention of management and workpeople.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Debate on 5th April, 1950. In addition, my right hon. Friend has had a booklet prepared, in which are discussed, in the form of question and answer, the various matters arising on a wider extension throughout industry of the machinery of joint consultation. I am glad to say that both the British Employers' Confederation and the Trades Union Congress, together with a number of voluntary organisations, are giving the most valuable help in securing the widest possible distribution for it, and I am placing copies in the Library for the information of Members.

While thanking my hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask whether practical experience has been taken into consideration in the compilation of this pamphlet?

Yes, Sir. The booklet is a record of a discussion by three industrial workers with practical experience of how joint consultation works and what it can mean, given goodwill and co-operation on both sides.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary give an assurance that he will not take as a yard-stick in this matter the joint consultative machinery which exists between the Government and the Socialist Party Executive?

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement about the strike of London taxicab drivers; and if he will give the numbers of those still on strike.

This dispute has not been reported to my Department and, on the facts as known to me, I am advised that this is not a strike within the meaning of the Conditions of Employment and National Arbitration Order, as the relationship between the cab proprietors and the drivers is not that of employer and employed. I have no information as to the numbers involved.

Is it not a fact that this is an official strike recognised by the trade union?

I have nothing to add to what I have said, that so far as we are concerned it is not.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary make inquiries and find out some facts about this strike?

I am quite certain that the answer I have given is the correct one, and that it does not, under the provisions of Order 1305, become a strike.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary not heard that this strike has been very largely brought about by Communist agitation, and has he no statement to make about that?

No, Sir. I have no information to that effect. The point of my reply is that the relationship between the cab owners and the drivers is not that of employer and employee. It is only under such conditions that we could intervene.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) what was the number of unemployed in Pembroke. Milford Haven, Haverfordwest, Fishguard and Tenby, at the last convenient date;

(2) what was the total number of unemployed in Pembrokeshire at the last convenient date.

The total number of unemployed persons on the registers of employment exchanges in Pembrokeshire at 15th May was 806. The figures for the Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven, Haverfordwest, Fishguard and Tenby employment exchanges were 204, 319, 119, 54 and 82, respectively.

As this figure represents something like twice the national average in terms of percentages, will my hon. Friend consult his colleague and ask him to bring this unemployment to the notice of the President of the Board of Trade with a view to directing new industries to this country?

indicated assent.

asked the Minister of Labour, seeing that he has referred a dispute between the London Society of Compositors and the London Master Printers' Association to the National Arbitration Tribunal, what steps he has taken to stop the London Society of Compositors from using restrictive practices and from using trade union procedure in furtherance of that dispute, pending a decision by the Tribunal.

My right hon. Friend has no authority to intervene in these matters.

In view of the fact that the Minister of Labour himself played a considerable part in building up the joint industrial council for this trade, will he not consider taking action to try to dissuade the compositors from breaking away from the council, which they have notified they intend doing?

What my right hon. Friend can do in a private capacity is one thing, but what he can do as Minister of Labour is another.

rose—

If the Minister has no authority, I do not see how he can answer.

asked the Minister of Labour whether any decision has yet been reached regarding the terms under which service in the Regular Forces may be counted as established service in subsequent civilian employment when calculating the latter for purposes of redundancy.

No, Sir. The matter is at present being examined with a view to putting forward proposals which, it is hoped, will be found acceptable to all concerned.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that this matter is of concern, not only from the point of view of equity to those affected, but also in regard to future recruiting for the Regular Army?

That is precisely the reason we are hoping to find a solution satisfactory to all concerned.

Is the reply confined to those who take up employment in Government Departments and nationalised industries, or does it apply to industry in general?

If the hon. Gentleman reads the Question, he will see to what the answer refers.

asked the Minister of Labour the cost of building the redundant building training centre at Paulsgrove in terms of pounds, shillings and pence per man trained.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Works informs me that the cost of building and equipping the premises was £177,500. Whilst the premises were in use as a Government training centre, 436 persons completed training courses there. The relation of these figures to one another does not, of course, represent the cost of a man's training, in the calculation of which quite different factors must be taken into account.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary realise that this redundant building has been empty since January, that it cost an awful lot, that it has trained very few people and that it is not now being used for any purpose? Will he arrange to allocate it to some factory, or to have it used for some other purpose?

It is not our wish that the factory should remain vacant. I do not know whether there are any proposals for letting it to industry, but I should like to think that that is going to be the case.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary admit that it is redundant?

I do not know precisely, but I have no reason to dispute the hon. and gallant Member's statement that at the moment it is not being used.

Is this not yet another example of Socialist extravagance?

I do not think it is extravagance. These buildings have to be paid for.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the fact that the Burgh of Prestwick is short of 650 houses to meet the needs of the homeless, what plans he proposes to enable the town council to overcome the shortage.

I understand that the building industry in this area is already fully engaged, but I shall be glad to consider any proposals from the council or the hon. and gallant Member to increase production.

But the Joint Under-Secretary knows very well that the council themselves have put forward suggestions for the last five years. Will he tell us the cause of this tragic position of housing in Prestwick and Scotland generally? Is it because Scotland is not getting its fair share of materials, or what is the reason?

The hon. and gallant Member will know that at Prestwick they have 28 houses under construction, and that 76 additional houses have been allocated but not yet begun. The only sort of representation that the hon. and gallant Member has made up to now is to allocate more houses, or to allow more houses to be built on private account. In addition to these houses, they also have about 20 houses being built on private account.

Can we be told, in the light of these figures, how long it will take Prestwick to get the 650 houses promised?

In view of the reply, does the Joint Under-Secretary admit that the local authority has failed as the chosen instrument for house building?

The hon. and gallant Member is asking me to assist the chosen instrument to build more houses, and I am wondering why they have not built more houses out of their allocation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is his policy in regard to the provision of houses for fishermen; and if they will have any priority, as compared with other housing requirements.

As explained in a recent letter to the hon. and gallant Member, my right hon. Friend is ready to consider the special circumstances of particular fishing areas where housing difficulties are hampering recruitment to the industry from other areas. Twenty additional houses have just been allocated to Ayr County Council for this special purpose.

The hon. Member will appreciate that there is great disquiet among the fishing population as to whether they are not being overlooked or left behind in this scramble for the houses that do not exist. Will he therefore do something to try to ease the concern which is at present disturbing them?

I understood that the scramble is for the houses that do exist. The selection of tenants for houses is a matter for the local authorities concerned. We are concerned only to allocate additional houses where there is to be an increase in the population.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what amount of assistance he proposes to give to the Scottish Council for Research in Education in the current financial year.

The Council's grant is the sum by which the cost of then-approved programme of work exceeds their income from other sources. The estimate of their requirements for their current financial year has not yet been received, but the grant for their last financial year will be about £1,950.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he can now state his conclusions on the present state and future prospects of the fishing industry following upon decontrol of prices, abandonment of the flat rate transport scheme and the continuing rise in costs of fishing gear; and what action he proposes to take to preserve the vitality and the defence potential of the industry.

I cannot add to what the Prime Minister said last week, that a statement will be made as soon as possible.

Would the hon. Gentleman kindly answer the first part of the Question—whether he has reached any 'conclusion? Are we to take it that he has reached no conclusion?

If we had reached conclusions we should be able to make a statement and we should make a statement. It is a very serious matter, it is being very fully, carefully and urgently considered, and as soon as possible a statement will be made.

Can the Joint Under-Secretary of State say whether this inquiry covers both sides of the fishing industry? Will his statement cover both the herring industry and the white fish industry?

No. This is an inquiry into the white fish industry.

Can the hon. Gentleman give any idea of the date when the Government's conclusions will be reached?

No.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made with the housing survey; if the reports on county and burgh surveys are to be published separately as they are completed; and to what extent the survey is designed to show the amount of useful repair and renovation work which can quickly be done to existing houses in town and country.

My right hon. Friend has asked the associations of local authorities for their views on the making of this survey. It will not be possible to give any details until the associations have considered the matter.

Are we to understand that after the associations have provided recommendations to the Minister, he will then come to conclusions on this matter?

The position is that we are not entitled to go forward to make a survey without the co-operation of the local authorities. We are consulting with the local authorities' associations at the present time. It would be unfair of me to state any details, even of any schemes which we have put forward, until we have had those discussions with the authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what basis of computation the profits on the estate of Dunragit, Wigtownshire, owned by the Department of Agriculture for Scotland for 1948–49 were arrived at.

The trading profit for Dunragit for the 16 months ended 31st March, 1949, was computed on the value of farm assets as at 31st March, 1949, plus income during the period of accounts, less the value of farm assets as at 1st December, 1947, and expenditure during the period of accounts.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that a completely normal course was followed on this occasion and that there was no tendency at all to exaggerate the value of the assets?

Not at all. As a matter of fact, at the latter date the value of the assets was placed at a lower figure than at the former date.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the cost of the house recently completed for the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright County Council's road engineer at Kirkcudbright.

According to a statement submitted to the county council the house, excluding the garage, cost £1,374 to build, the plumbing and electrical work having been done by the road engineer himself.

Is the Minister aware that there is great dissatisfaction in the district at the cost of this house and that many people believe that it far exceeded the legitimate amount? Will the hon. Gentleman indicate his displeasure and his disapproval of this kind of thing done on behalf of our civil servants?

Of course, this matter has been very carefully considered by a committee of the county council. The committee of the county council were satisfied that everything was fair, square and above board, and I do not think we have any right to criticise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much of the 83,000 acres owned by the Forestry Commission in the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright has been planted; and what sheep stock there is on the non-planted area.

A total of 18,664 acres are planted. The sheep stock on the un-planted land, as shown in the Agricultural Returns for June, 1949, was approximately 15,500 ewes and 18,500 others.

May I ask the Joint Under-Secretary of State whether he is aware that there has been a decrease in the sheep population in this county of about 70,000 in the last 10 years and that that is due quite largely to this very large planting of trees? Is he aware of the necessity of holding a balance between afforestation and sheep production?

That is exactly what we are doing. The fall in sheep stock is not due, in fact, to the acreage which has been planted and, as the hon. Member will know, the cattle population in the same area has increased quite considerably.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Report on Public Libraries and other cultural services in Scotland will be published.

My right hon. Friend has impressed upon the council the urgency of this Report. I understand that its preparation is well advanced and that it should be submitted to the Secretary of State in the autumn. It will be published as a Command Paper.

Is the hon. Lady aware that as long ago as 22nd November the Secretary of State said that the Report was then being drafted? Is not the delay quite abnormal?

The Report is not ready for drafting even at the present time. The Committee are still dealing with this matter. We have urged upon them the necessity for getting the Report out quickly and we are almost certain that it will be out in the autumn.

Arising out of that reply, may I call the hon. Lady's attention to column 184 of HANSARD of 22nd November last, when the Secretary of State said that the Report was then being drafted?

All I can say is that the information I have given to the hon. and gallant Member today is the correct information.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is now in a position to make a statement about continuing the Tenancy of Shops (Scotland) Act, 1949, for a further period of five years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the final Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Tenure of Shop and Business Premises as presented in Commander Paper No. 7903; and if he proposes early legislation on this subject of security of tenure.

My right hon. Friend and the President of the Board of Trade have considered the final Report of the Guthrie Committee and it has been decided to ask Parliament to extend the operation of the Tenancy of Shops (Scotland) Act, 1949, beyond 31st December next by means of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill.

May I ask my hon. Friend whether she is including business premises, in addition to shops, in this new arrangement?

No. What is to go into the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill will cover only those points covered by the existing Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to be able to make a statement on the possibility of introducing a scheme to provide pensions for the widows of teachers.

The difficult financial problems involved in any scheme of pensions for the widows of teachers require careful consideration and should be examined in the light of the results of the actuarial inquiry into the Teachers' Superannuation Scheme now proceeding. It will, therefore, be some little time before a further statement can be made.

Will the hon. Lady indicate when the results of the actuarial inquiry are likely to become known?

We hope that the report will be ready by the end of this year.

Will the hon. Lady tell us why this matter has not been considered at all in the last five years? Why is consideration only now being started?

This Committee has been sitting for some time. This subject has been the concern of the Department for a considerable time but no steps can be taken until the report of the Committee is ready.

Can the hon. Lady say why it was not dealt with by hon. Members opposite between the wars?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when it is proposed to make a start for the first phase water supply schemes for Skye and the Outer Islands.

A start has not been made with these schemes because the county council are dissatisfied with the rate of grant recently offered to them. My right hon. Friend hopes to make a revised offer of grant at a very early date.

Will the hon. Member remember that the best season for the building of water supplies is very short? Can he say when it is expected that the negotiations between the county council and the Department for the 85 per cent. grant will be concluded?

I do not know that there will be any 85 per cent. grant. They were recently offered a 40 per cent. grant; they had expected an 85 per cent. grant; and we have had a discussion recently. We hope in the next week or two to be able to offer them a modified grant, but I cannot say what it will be.

Is it the case that part at least of the reason for the reduction of the grant from 85 per cent. to 40 per cent. is that the council indecently rushed to reduce its rates last year and reduced the value of its own contribution?

Was it not true that there was confusion between the county rate and the water rate in the Department?

The 85 per cent. which was expected in the first place was calculated on the basis of the rate burden on the authority before the introduction of the equalisation grant provision. Since the rate of the grant had to be fixed after the operation of the equalisation grant provisions, under which the county council are very generously treated by the Government, it was found that the rate of the grant would properly be fixed at 40 per cent. and the local authority were not willing to accept that.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that the burden of increased freights falls most heavily on certain farmers in the Highlands; and what measures he is taking to compensate for this inequality.

I am aware of many complaints that freight charges have an adverse effect on various industries in the Highlands, including agriculture. This problem is being considered by a Joint Committee of the Scottish Council, the Highland Panel and the Scottish Board for Industry, with special reference to the draft charges scheme now being prepared by the British Transport Commission.

Can the hon. Gentleman say when the report of this Committee will be ready, and will she bear in mind, in the meantime, that the transport rates bear very heavily on the remote hill farmers at the present time?

At this stage I cannot give any date when this report will be ready, but we hope it will be ready soon so that it can go before the British Transport Commission.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that agents of the Department of Agriculture for Scotland bid against each other recently at a sheep sale at Stirling; and if he will issue instructions to prohibit this practice.

I am not aware of such an instance but I shall be glad to have particulars. Instructions already exist to avoid such occurrences.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this took place in September, 1948, when six agents of the Department were bidding against each other?

The noble Lord will appreciate why it was that I was unable to identify the occasion. Now he has stated it, I will make some inquiries. I should be obliged if he could possibly be even more precise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action His Majesty's Government propose to take on the Report of the Committee on Poaching and Illegal Fishing of Salmon and Trout in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether His Majesty's Government have completed their consideration of the Report of the Committee on Poaching and Illegal Fishing of Salmon and Trout in Scotland; and what action it is proposed to take.

The Government have given careful consideration to the Committee's Report, and they propose to introduce legislation on the general lines suggested by the Committee.

May I ask the Joint Under-Secretary whether this legislation is likely to be introduced very soon? The Lord President of the Council did not seem very optimistic about it on Thursday.

I should think that he is the member of His Majesty's Government who might be consulted about the matter.

Will my hon. Friend impress upon the Lord President the urgency of the matter?

Yes, Sir.

Will the hon. Gentleman also take into account the fact that this is an admirable opportunity to deal with all sides of this question of the salmon fishing industry, and that he should not confine the Bill to the Report? Will he consider that point?

I shall ask my right hon. Friend to bear that point in mind.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the strong opinion in Scotland that there should be nationalisation of the fishing rights, without any compensation to the landlords?

In impressing upon his right hon. Friend that this is an urgent matter, will the hon. Gentleman also point out that in the next few months, when the rivers are at their lowest and the fish are congregating in the head waters of the rivers to spawn, they are really most vulnerable? This poaching with poisoning and explosives is a new thing. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if the use of these methods is allowed to continue on this scale into the autumn, it will do great damage to stocks during the next few years?

This is a very old form of private enterprise. I cannot give any undertaking that legislation will be passed to deal with it in the next few months.

Would it not be more correct to call it "expropriation" than "nationalisation"?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he can now announce the names and terms of reference of the committee he proposes to set up for the purpose of inquiring whether it is possible to inquire into the financial and other relations between Scotland and England.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now announce the names of those who are to serve on the committee of inquiry into Scottish-United Kingdom affairs.

My right hon. Friend hopes to be in a position to make an announcement shortly.

I must again ask the hon. Lady what "shortly" means. The matter has been on the tapis for some time.

Are we entitled to presume that the committee will be formed before the Summer Recess?

I should hope so. Indeed, I am almost certain that it will be formed before the Summer Recess.

May we have an assurance that the committee will not consist of those who are notoriously biased on this subject?

I can give the hon. and gallant Gentleman that assurance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that local authorities are experiencing difficulty in obtaining timber and other essential building material; that in Ayrshire the housing programme is endangered; and if he will take action to ensure that house construction is not impeded by lack of essential materials.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the number of representations being made to his Department by local authorities and building contractors as to the holding up of local authority house building through sufficient supplies of cement and timber not being available, what steps he is taking to deal with these complaints.

Some temporary difficulty has arisen in fully meeting the demand for timber and cement. As regards timber, there is close and regular consultation between my officials and regional officers of the Board of Trade and Ministry of Works to ensure the utmost care in the use of stocks and to see that no hold-up occurs on housing or other essential works. Any case in which a hold-up is threatened is examined at once and, if necessary, supplies are released from a stock held in reserve to meet emergencies. As regards cement, I would refer the hon. Members to the answer given yesterday by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works.

Will the Joint Under-Secretary consult the local authorities? He will find out that the difficulty which he describes as temporary has been recurring season after season. Will he not take action to get rid of it once and for all?

In point of fact, if we want to get this thing quite accurate, the difficulty only arose a few weeks ago, and the difficulty will disappear within the next month. I do assure hon. Gentlemen that there were no such difficulties about either timber or cement from the summer of last year until a few weeks ago.

May I ask my hon. Friend to go into the question of the distribution of cement? I am informed by a builder from the burgh of Irvine, who is on municipal houses that he can get plenty of this cement if he transports it from Dundee, which puts up the cost of the cement and adds to building costs in the area.

I have personally been going into the distribution of timber and cement very recently. Of course, there are contractors and local authorities who run to merchants at a very great distance from the area in which they are working, and of course they get supplies from long distances. It very often happens that they could have got supplies much nearer at hand.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the seriousness of this hold-up at this time in the building industry? What steps is he taking to see that it does not occur again?

I have just been explaining to the House the steps that I have been taking to get over the difficulty, a difficulty which indeed arose because of the excellent building weather and the increased building work that has gone on in recent weeks.

Is not the hon. Gentleman's Department capable of dealing with a situation that should have been perfectly obvious?

Is it not the case that steps were not taken early enough and that the Government have largely slept in, in connection with this problem?

I do not think we have had any hold-up as yet. Let me make that quite clear. I met the Scottish contractors only last week in Glasgow and I asked them to let me have knowledge of any case in the whole of broad Scotland where there was a stoppage. There has not been one, and I do not think there will be one.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements are being made by the various regional hospital boards to provide hospitalisation for old people, many of whom are at present urgently needing trained nursing care, and are being deprived of it through the lack of sufficient nursing staff and beds.

Further expansion of facilities for this purpose will depend on the financial and other resources that can be made available to the hospital service. Arrangements are, however, in hand to make the best use of the existing facilities by adopting more intensive methods of treatment and to stimulate the fullest cooperation with the other residential and domiciliary services available to old people.

Will the Joint Under-Secretary ask her right hon. Friend to go into the question, above all, of the utilisation of the hospital space available? I believe this should be looked at with a view to caring for our own old people and getting them hospital treatment almost immediately when necessary.

I can assure my hon. Friend that much attention has been given by the Department and the Ministers concerned to this matter. In some instances we have been able to find more accommodation by switching over the use of a hospital such as an infectious diseases hospital.

What happens to a "hospitalised" man when he is cured? Is he "de-hospitalised" or "homeised?"

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now submit a comprehensive report on the progress being made by the local authorities in Scotland to provide residential accommodation for persons who, by reason of age, infirmity or any other circumstances are in need of care and attention; and if he will give an assurance that all local authorities are taking measures to meet their obligations to old people as directed under the National Assistance Act, 1948, Part III.

An account of the progress made in providing residential accommodation under the National Assistance Act is contained in the Annual Report for 1949 of the Department of Health for Scotland. Since the passing of the Act, local authorities have opened six homes, 21 others have been acquired and are at various stages of preparation, while the acquisition of 16 others is being considered. My officers are in constant touch with the local authorities on this matter and I think that the authorities generally are alive to their obligations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on how many new towns in Scotland work has been started; what is the estimated number of dwellings required in each; the number completed and occupied up to 31st May, 1950; and the number under construction at 31st May, 1950.

Work on both new towns in Scotland has been begun. Twelve thousand houses are estimated to be required at East Kilbride; at 31st May, 78 had been completed and occupied and 212 were under construction. Eight thousand houses were originally estimated to be required at Glenrothes, but this figure is being reviewed in the light of the latest information about coalmining development in Fife. No houses have yet been begun by the development corporation, but 136 houses are expected to be started shortly. The county council have two housing schemes within the new town area in which 18 houses have been completed and occupied and 278 are under construction.

Does that answer mean that the number of dwellings to be built at Glenrothes in the county of Fife is now to be reduced?

At the present time we are dealing with new figures that have been put forward by the National Coal Board in the developing of that area. We must await the decision on these new figures before we can say what will be happening.

Three or four years ago there was talk of a new town at Invergordon in my constituency. Has that idea been completely dropped now?

That is another question.

Will the hon. Lady tell the House what the latest estimate of total cost of new towns in Scotland is likely to be, because the people of Scotland want to know?

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman will put down a Question, we will try to answer it.

Will the hon. Lady make certain that these towns are being provided with schools, churches and halls and that they are not being left without them, as other new towns have been?

It is one of the ideas behind the new towns that we should have the amenities that we did not have in the older places.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he hopes to be able to make a statement on the findings of the inquiry into the Shetland wool scheme.

The Commissioner's Report on the public inquiry into the objections to the draft Shetland Wool Marketing Scheme was made 10 days ago and is being considered. This consideration may yet take some time.

Bearing in mind the difficult situation which faces the crofters at the present time, will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that no final decision will be taken on the matter until full publicity has been given to the findings of the inquiry and an opportunity given to the crofters to represent their point of view upon it?

It is the duty of the Government to consider the Commissioner's Report and then to have consultations, if need be, with the promoters of the scheme. I think that we had better consider the Report and have discussions with the promoters before we indulge in any publicity campaign.