House Of Commons
Tuesday, 30th January, 1951
The House met at Half past Two o'Clock
Prayers
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
Oral Answers To Questions
British Army
Malayan Battalions
1.
asked the Secretary of State for War how many Malayan battalions have been formed; and how many British officers and men are serving with them.
Four battalions of the Malay Regiment have been formed. As already announced, His Majesty's Government are now prepared to meet the cost of raising two further battalions. Between 150 and 200 British officers and men are serving with the Malay Regiment.
Will the right hon. Gentleman say what limits the number of Malayan battalions that can be formed? Is it the number of British officers and N.C.O.s available, is it money, or is it the policy of the Colonial Office, the Colonial Government—or what is it?
I think it is a combination of those factors, and it is considered that it is best to form them battalion by battalion rather than to attempt to go too fast.
Is the right hon. Gentleman entirely satisfied that the most suitable type of officer is serving with these battalions, and can he say what arrangements there are to attract the right type?
I saw some of these battalions when I was in Malaya in the summer, and I formed a very high view of the British officers serving with them. The arrangement for their remuneration and conditions is worked out between us and the Colonial Office.
Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the length of service of British officers with the Malay Regiment? Is he considering the present period of service and appointment?
All those things are kept continually under review.
What volunteer or territorial formations are there in Malaya now?
That is a question which I think ought to be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary.
Married Quarters, Suez Canal Zone
2.
asked the Secretary of State for War how many married quarters are now available in the Suez Canal area; how many are under construction; and how many it is proposed to start building in 1951.
There are now 942 married quarters available; 320 are under construction and it is proposed to start building a further 250 in the financial year 1951. The majority of these quarters are of temporary construction.
Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the present negotiations, with the Egyptian Government, which are of course very important, are not holding up in any way the construction of proper married quarters for the British troops now in the Suez Zone?
These quarters are under construction.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether these married quarters are all concentrated at Fayid, or are other parts of the Canal included, such as Moascar?
These are overall figures but the majority are in Fayid.
Barracks (Coal Supplies)
3.
asked the Secretary of State for War why coal supplies in barracks were drastically cut after Christmas.
Before Christmas, the War Office instructed Commands to take all steps necessary to conserve fuel supplies but to ensure that a reasonable standard of comfort was maintained.
Will the Secretary of State ensure that when these cuts are made the troops will be assured that they will not always appear to be the first to have to take them?
Yes, certainly. I am very concerned that they get adequate supplies.
Voluntary Enlistment (Age)
4.
asked the Secretary of State for War what voluntary engagements are open to men aged 35 years or more, with pervious experience, in the Army.
With the exception of applicants for the Royal Army Educational Corps, bandsmen and special tradesmen in the Royal Signals, the upper age limit for enlistment as other ranks on normal Regular Army engagements is 30 years. But men over that age with former service may be accepted for enlistment as special cases. Released officers over the age of 35 years, other than retired Regular officers in receipt of retired pay, may apply for re-employment in all arms except the Royal Artillery. The age limits vary as between different arms, but the average is 45 years.
Has the right hon. Gentleman had a look at this matter recently, in view of the importance of having men of experience to help to build up the strength of the Army?
Yes, and we are making more and more of these special cases.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that that age limit must apply in terms of rank? There must be senior officers over that age who would be of infinite value to the Service.
As I have said, we make no rigid rule and we can make special cases for individuals who may be of service.
Would the Secretary of State consider looking at this matter again because, in view of expansion and the shortage of manpower, there are a large number of older men who would like to come back to the Army very much and would do the job perfectly well and who would free others for a more active rôle.
Yes, certainly.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of these older men with previous experience—senior N.C.O.s and warrant officers—are discouraged from coming back because he can offer no assurance that they will be given their old or similar rank in a short time?
I think it must be a question of the individual case. I do not think we could give an overall assurance.
Postings (Notice)
5.
asked the Secretary of State for War how long notice is normally given to soldiers before they are posted from one station to another.
Wherever possible, at least two months' notice of posting is given. Shorter notice may be given when officers and other ranks are posted from a holding unit to more permanent duties or where they are posted as a result of operational necessity or on compassionate grounds.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that recently two N.C.O.s who had their families living with them were posted from Germany back to this country at only five days' notice, and does he think that that is a reasonable amount of notice?
Perhaps the hon. Member will let me have particulars.
Troops, Korea
6.
asked the Secretary of State for War what steps he is taking to secure that the 29th Infantry Brigade, fighting in Korea, has adequate medical supplies.
The brigade sailed with its full scale of medical equipment and two months' maintenance stocks. In addition, No. 29 General Hospital, established in Japan, was provided with two months' maintenance stocks for the British forces in Korea as well as two months' stocks for its own maintenance. A further four months' maintenance stocks for the whole force in Korea and Japan were despatched to No. 29 General Hospital early in December and will now be arriving. Further medical maintenance of the force will be taken over by Far East Land Forces.
Why were units of this brigade sent up to the forward area without proper medical supplies, so that early in December, when the troops were suffering from severe wintry conditions, no supplies were available for the treatment of pleurisy, bronchial diseases or frost-bite?
My information does not confirm that statement, but if the hon. Member will let me have particulars I will look into them.
25.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the British troops in Korea are organised as one formation under a British commander; whether there is a balance of the different arms; and whether the force is self-contained with its own supply and technical services.
The British troops in Korea are not organised as one formation. The 29th Brigade is a self-contained fully balanced force with its own supply and technical services. The 27th Brigade requires certain tank, engineer and administrative assistance, which is provided by the United States forces.
Would it not be far better if the British Forces were under one command, organised in one formation, and is it not detrimental to efficiency that they should be dependent on the supply services of another nation? Will the right hon. Gentleman consider this matter afresh, as it is one of very great importance to the troops?
Certainly we will consider it, but the hon. and gallant Member knows how this has arisen. The force sent from this country specially for the purpose is, as I have said, a self-contained force. The other force came from Hong Kong at the urgent request of the United Nations Supreme Commander and consist of two infantry battalions.
Constabulary (Recruitment)
7.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the industrial demand for labour, he will increase the maximum age for War Department Constabulary recruiting.
These age qualifications are already being relaxed to some extent. I think it is desirable that exception should continue to be made on the merits of each particular case.
May I take it from that reply that the right hon. Gentleman is aware that there are at least a considerable number of men over the age of 45 who are very suitable for this constabulary and wish to take up that occupation'?
Yes, Sir.
Regular Officers (Half Pay)
8.
asked the Secretary of State for War how many Regular officers are now on half-pay; and on what basis the half-pay rate is calculated.
The half-pay system ceases on 31st March next. There are now only 42 officers, all of them sick, on half-pay. The rates are in most cases half the rates of full pay in force prior to 1946. The only exceptions are field-marshals not holding full time appointments, who will remain on half-pay.
Is the Minister aware that, according to my information, the rate is based on the 1940 Royal Warrant and that there are certain ranks today on half-pay who are receiving, in effect, something like one-fifth or less of the full pay rate, and although this will last for only another month or two, will the right hon. Gentleman look into such injustices as are being done?
Yes, Sir.
Medical Standards
9.
asked the Secretary of State for War in what degree the acceptable medical standards differ as between National Service recruits and Reservists recalled.
A National Service recruit must reach the general medical standard of Grade II of the Ministry of Labour and National Service, under which he would be fit to serve in the lines of communication anywhere in the world and, in addition, be up to the particular medical standard of the arm of the Service to which he is posted. Regular Reservists, on transfer to the Reserve, must be up to the medical standard required for entry into their arm of the Service. The acceptable medical standards for recall of Regular Reservists to meet a particular need may, however, be above the minimum standard, as in the case of the recall of Regular Reservists for Korea, where all men were required to be fit for employment in full combatant duties in any part of the world.
Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that Reservists who are recalled, in accordance with the Prime Minister's statement, even for 15 days' training, are given adequate medical examination as to their present fitness without regard to their past medical category, whatever that may have been?
Certainly, there will be a medical examination.
Motor Mileage Allowance
11.
asked the Secretary of State for War when he proposes to make an announcement about mileage allowances in view of the further increased cost of petrol, oil and tyres.
The rates of motor mileage allowance for Service personnel are similar to those paid to civil servants. I am informed that agreement on new rates has now been reached and these will be notified to all concerned as early as possible.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this matter was first raised in June, that it has taken many months to get the answer, and that the prices of petrol, oil and tyres have gone up again in the last month?
We must await the announcement of the new rates, which I understand will be made very soon.
Ex-Officers (Re-Employment)
12.
asked the Secretary of State for War why retired officers of field rank and considerable experience in Royal Army Ordnance Corps duties who are desirous of returning to employment in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps and Anti-Aircraft Command depôts are being notified that the only posts open to them in the command are those of labourer; and whether he will amend the present instructions to enable retired officers with up-to-date knowledge of their duties and experience to be employed during the present expansion of the Armed Forces.
There have been difficulties in finding suitable posts for these ex-officers. The War Office is, however, examining all establishments with a view to increasing the number of appointments which may be filled by ex-officers in a civilian capacity. In addition, ex-officers (other than those in receipt of retired pay) are eligible, subject to certain conditions, for the grant of short service commissions.
In that case can officers who have made application, but who have been refused in the manner indicated in my Question, now make application again?
Yes, certainly, Sir. We cannot, of course, give a guarantee in individual cases.
Dried Milk, Hong Kong
13.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will ensure that supplies of national dried milk are made continuously available in Navy, Army and Air Force Institute canteens for the wives of soldiers serving in Hong Kong.
This matter is causing concern. The manufacturers have been unable to supply national dried milk in hermetically sealed tins. If, therefore, it is not sold within 14 days of arrival in Hong Kong, illness may result. I am taking the matter up with N.A.A.F.I. and with my right hon. Friends the other Service Ministers and the Minister of Food with a view to an approach being made to the manufacturers.
While thanking the Minister for his reply and entirely appreciating the difficulties, may I ask him to bear in mind that this is a matter of some importance, as young children are very allergic to changes in their staple diet?
I entirely agree with the hon. Member.
Class Z Reserve
14.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will arrange that no man on Class Z Reserve, at present studying for examinations, will be called up until such examinations are over.
Provision will be made for any recalled Z and equivalent Reservists to apply for postponement of recall on grounds of hardship. Due consideration will be given to the cases of those studying for examinations.
May I express the hope that the right hon. Gentleman will give this matter early consideration, because these men are potential technicians and specialists, and even a fortnight's delay may make the whole difference to their future career?
We will certainly take that into earnest consideration.
Will apprentices, during their apprenticeship, also be included in that special consideration?
That is another question and one which will concern my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service.
17.
asked the Secretary of State for War what purpose the questionnaire recently sent to Class Z Reservists is intended to serve.
I can perhaps best answer this Question by quoting from the form. Paragraph 2 of the form reads:
"The object of asking you to supply this information is to enable the Ministry of Labour and National Service to consider the question of your availability for recall should the need ever arise. It is important that you should complete this form correctly and return it promptly failure to do so may mean that you will be regarded as available for recall whatever your occupation may be."
Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has received full returns from that circular which was sent out, and whether it was sent out to all men on the Class Z Reserve or, if it was only sent to a portion of the men, whether that indicates any particular liability for call-up?
The response has been extremely encouraging, and a high percentage of the forms has been completed. In answer to the other question —no, not all Z Reservists receive these forms, and the receipt of them is no particular indication.
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether this questionnaire included a question asking the Class Z men whether they wished to be called up?
Where the forms have been completed, is it proposed to allocate the Z Reservists to particular regiments and to tell them which units they will have to report to on mobilisation?
No, Sir.
Tinned Foodstuffs (Contracts)
15.
asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the contracts for tinned foodstuffs for the Army and Royal Air Force have been placed with Welsh firms.
During 1950, Welsh firms received approximately 5½ per cent. by value, of the contracts for tinned foodstuffs placed by the War Department for the Army and Royal Air Force.
Prisoners Of War, Korea
18 and 19.
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he has received any notification as to how many of the 14 officers and 217 other ranks reported missing in Korea are prisoners of war; who is the protecting Power; and whether representatives of the protecting Power have yet visited such British prisoners of war and reported on their condition;
(2) how many prisoners-of-war camps in Korea, containing British troops, are known and marked as such to prevent bombing; whether Red Cross clothing and food are being sent; and whether any letters have been received from the men concerned.20.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has any information that any of the missing in Korea are prisoners of war.
I will, with permission, make a statement at the end of Questions in answer to Questions Nos. 18, 19 and 20.
Later—
With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement in reply to Questions 18, 19 and 20.
No official information has been received that any of the British forces in Korea are prisoners of war, but a Chinese news agency has given the names of two Royal Marines claimed to have been taken prisoner. The next of kin have been informed in each case. Since then, the Chinese Press has reported a North Korean Army communiqué for 12th January last as saying that 472 men of the British Forces, which exceeds the number of missing, have been taken prisoner. There are therefore some grounds for belief that a considerable proportion of the missing are alive in enemy hands. As the House is aware, we have no information about the conditions under which United Nations forces taken prisoner are held. In July, the North Korean authorities, in response to an approach by the United Nations, said that their Army was strictly abiding by the principles of the Geneva Conventions in regard to prisoners of war, and in August and September they despatched two lists of prisoners, giving the names of 110 United States troops, to the International Red Cross Committee in Geneva. No further such lists have, however, been received. Requests by the United Nations and by the International Red Cross Committee that representatives of the Committee should be allowed to enter North Korea have so far met with no success. The Chinese Government have adopted the attitude that the matter is one entirely for the North Korean authorities. Further representations in regard to these matters are now being made in Peking. Efforts are being made at the same time to secure the transmission of mail to and from United Nations prisoners of war and the passage of relief supplies to them, and attempts are being made through national Red Cross Societies and through the normal international postal channels to achieve the same result. The Supreme Commander of the United Nations forces in Korea has announced that he is following the Geneva Conventions in regard to prisoners of war and wounded and sick. The United Kingdom Government have informed the North, Korean authorities that they will observe the undertakings entered into on behalf of the United Nations forces by the United Nations Commander-in-Chief, and arrangements have been made to ensure that British troops comply with the Conventions. Representatives of the International Red Cross Committee have been sending to the North Korean authorities reports on camps for North Korean prisoners in South Korea, and have been issuing relief supplies to these prisoners. Lists of North Korean prisoners are being sent by the United Nations to the International Red Cross Committee for transmission to the North Koreans. Our efforts to obtain information about, to secure relief for, and to communicate with, British prisoners will be continued without relaxation and, in the event of any material change in the situation, I will inform the House.Can the Secretary of State say, first, when the International Red Cross made its last inquiry about British missing, and secondly, whether, in view of the renewed hopes which the right hon. Gentleman expressed that some of the missing men may still be alive, he would ask the International Red Cross to resume its inquiries?
Yes, Sir. They have continually made these attempts, and a representative of the Committee got as far as Tientsin at one moment, but was turned back. The inquiries are now going on, both from the British Red Cross Society and the Chinese Red Cross Society and through official channels in Peking, and we shall pursue these as long as we possibly can.
I said the International Red Cross.
Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that those of our men who were prisoners in Japanese hands during the last war all say that, of all the guards they most dreaded, none were worse than the Koreans, and, therefore, will he lodge the strongest protest with his right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary to make quite clear to the North Koreans that they must abide by this Convention?
I think my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is doing his utmost through his representative, the British Chargé ďAffaires at Peking.
Has the Secretary of State any explanation to give of the apparently high proportion of officers to men amongst the missing?
Not without notice.
In the figure of 472 which the right hon. Gentleman has given, was there any distinction between officers and other ranks, or were they all grouped together?
No, Sir. This figure must be incorrect, because it is a larger figure than the total number of missing.
Will the right hon. Gentleman consider publishing the names of the two marines, and does he think it might be wise, from the point of view of the other parents and relatives, if the names were known?
I think that is a question for my noble Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty.
In any discussion regarding a possible truce in Korea, will the Government make it quite clear that one condition must be that we should have full information and be given complete satisfaction regarding the safety of these prisoners?
I am sure that will be borne in mind.
Have the Government made any proposals for an exchange of prisoners?
No, Sir, I have given the entire account of what has been done so far.
Training Depôts (Instructors)
21.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will indicate the source from which instructors will be provided for the training depôts which are being formed in place of the training battalions which are reverting to field formations.
The group infantry training centres which have been set up are staffed mainly by the battalions of the infantry group concerned, wherever possible on a proportionate basis.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many N.C.Os. are being "milked" from the battalions which are being formed, in order to provide instructors at the training depôts they have just left? Is he aware that more than a year ago I suggested this would happen, and will he consider calling for volunteers as instructors from those who were instructors in training depôts during the war and are now in civilian life and could be called back to perform this task?
There are, of course, two burdens on the Army. There is the training burden and the formation of these active formations, and they do conflict to some extent, but both must be attended to.
Married Quarters (Training Depôts)
22.
asked the Secretary of State for War what provision he is making for the housing of married families who will be vacating married quarters in the vicinity of the newly-formed training depôts.
The present policy is that no family of a serving soldier will be required to move until alternative accommodation can be provided.
Light Multiple Mortar
23.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether a light multiple mortar similar to the one used by the Germans in the recent war is in production, or contemplated.
No, Sir. It is considered that the single type weapon is more satisfactory.
Is the Secretary of State aware that one of the greatest burdens that the infantry soldier had to bear during the war was the German multiple mortar which was invulnerable to artillery fire? Will he reconsider this decision, because this weapon is very cheap to make and is most effective?
My technical advisers strongly feel that the single type is the most satisfactory, but the hon. and gallant Member should not consider that that is the only provision which is being made.
Territorial Army
Car Mileage Allowance
10.
asked the Secretary of State for War what estimated saving will be achieved in one year by reducing the car mileage rate for members of the Territorial Army from 3½d. a mile to 1½d. a mile where public transport is available.
There has been no such reduction in the car mileage rates for members of the Territorial Army. As from 11th December, 1950, motor mileage allowance at the rate of 1½d. a mile was authorised for members of the Territorial Army who used their cars for journeys between their residence and the Territorial Army centre when public transport was available. Prior to that date no allowance for this purpose was admissible.
Is the Secretary of State aware that certain units have just received instructions on these lines and that it is exceedingly discouraging to those for many of whom time is the essence of the contract, and will he make sure that if the order has been sent out it will be reconsidered?
The hon. Member is under a misapprehension. This was a concession and an extension by which this mileage rate was given for journeys for which there was previously no allowance at all.
Uniform Allowance
24.
asked the Secretary of State for War why an officer, on joining the Territorial Army, is paid no uniform allowance unless there has been a break in his service of at least one year; and whether he will arrange that an officer on joining the Territorial Army receives uniform allowance, thus encouraging young officers to join the Territorial Army immediately on release after National Service.
Officers who join the Territorial Army after a break in their commissioned service of less than one year are deemed to be still in possession of all the outfit they need. I can see no grounds for authorising the grant of uniform allowance in these cases.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the effect of that order is that a large number of officers who would join the Territorial Army directly on conclusion of their National Service wait for a year, or possibly more, and sometimes reconsider joining at all?
It would be very difficult to make a grant under a break of one year.
Poles, United Kingdom
16.
asked the Secretary of State for War what troops of Polish origin, formerly commanded by General Anders, are at present quartered in the United Kingdom; what function they perform; and what plans are in hand for their future employment.
Since the disbandment of the Polish Resettlement Corps on 30th September, 1949, no troops of Polish origin have been in existence in the United Kingdom.
In view of the Prime Minister's statement on defence yesterday, would it be the policy of His Majesty's Government to encourage the recruitment of trained soldiers of Polish origin and their being allowed to make a contribution towards national defence in this country?
That is an entirely different question.
Town And Country Planning
Subsidence, Cheshire (Compensation)
26.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning when his local inquiry into the question of considering compensation for subsidence in Cheshire, due to brine pumping, will take place.
I cannot hold a local inquiry until I have received an application under the Brine Pumping (Compensation for Subsidence) Act, 1891.
Owing to the widespread anxiety which is being felt all over Cheshire on this question, could the Minister use his influence to have this inquiry held as soon as possible, particularly so that the question of retrospective compensation can be gone into?
I am only waiting for the local authorities to apply. Under this Act, either the local authorities or private property owners can apply, and until they apply I can do nothing.
As this is a matter which affects many and varying interests, and local authorities, will the right hon. Gentleman use his offices to secure an agreement between them in order to alleviate a sense of injustice which exists at the moment?
My information is that the local authorities are conferring. As soon as they reach a conclusion, or any of them wish to make an application, I will consider it.
When an application has been made, will the right hon. Gentleman make sure that those affected, the poorest people of all, shall not suffer?
May an aggrieved tenant make application?
I have already said that a property owner or a local authority can apply.
Slums (Demolition)
27.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he will gather and publish statistics regarding the number of slum dwellings demolished during each of the five years ended 31st March, 1950, and in future years.
I propose to ask local authorities for a single return covering the period 1st April, 1945, to 31st March, 1951, and for annual returns thereafter.
Memorandum (Chartered Surveyors)
28.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he has considered the memorandum, of which a copy has been sent him, issued by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and entitled, "Defects of the Town and Country Planning Act and the Remedies": and what action he proposes to take.
I have already adopted some of the suggestions in this memorandum, and am considering the others.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the reports of new town development corporations bear out the memorandum to the extent that they show that the compensation provisions of the Act are likely to cause serious hardship, and what does he propose to do about that?
I am considering the other suggestions.
Compulsory Purchase, Salford
29.
asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning when the Salford Corporation are likely to receive approval to the compulsory purchase of the Salford Authority Area No. 1 Regent Road.
I hope very soon
Ministry Of Works
Building Apprentice Schemes
31.
asked the Minister of Works if, in order to avoid confusion and delay, he will simplify the procedure for obtaining approval for the establishment of building apprentice master schemes by reducing the number of Departments and interests which have to be consulted.
I am not aware of any confusion or delay due to procedure in the treatment of these cases, but if the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, I will be very glad to look into it.
Is it not a fact that before a scheme can be got going it is necessary to consult three Government Departments, two organisations connected with the building industry and at least three departments of the local authority, and that an attempt to launch one in Wembley last year involved six months of vigorous correspondence before a refusal was obtained?
Yes, I know, but, in regard to the last part of the supplementary question, there were already schemes in operation there. A considerable amount of taxpayers' money was involved, and we did not think that another was justified.
Building Licences (Cinemas)
32.
asked the Minister of Works how many licences for rebuilding damaged cinemas were issued by his Department during 1946 and 1947; and what was the aggregate value of these licences for each of these two years.
So far as records, which are not quite complete, show, only one licence was issued in these two years to rebuild a war-destroyed cinema at a cost of £20,000.
The Minister says that the records are not complete. Would it be possible to give figures when the records are complete? Why are they not complete?
I can only give information to the best of my ability. We cannot have armies of people keeping these records. I am quite satisfied that not more than one cinema was licensed.
Government Offices (Fuel Economy)
33.
asked the Minister of Works if, in the interests of fuel economy, he will give instructions 'that all corridors and passages in Government offices should only be lit by 30-watt or other low-power lamps.
The standard of illumination in the corridors of Government buildings is being reduced to the lowest level compatible with safety. The hon. and gallant Member's suggestion will be followed wherever appropriate, but the change-over may take some time to effect.
Will the Minister look particularly at the new offices of the Ministry of Town and Country Planning, which have caused a great deal of adverse comment from people in the locality?
That office has only just been opened, and they have not quite settled in.
What are the dangers lurking in passages in Government offices?
Houses (Sheet Copper Roofs)
34.
asked the Minister of Works how many houses have been or are being built by his Department with sheet copper roofs at Hawkhills, near Easingwold; what is the average total cost of these houses; and what part of the total cost is attributable to the sheet copper roofs.
Six houses have been built with sheet copper roofs at Hawkhills, near Easingwold. Four similar houses are in course of erection there. The average total cost per house is £1,645. The cost of sheet copper roofing is estimated at £52 per house.
Is it not a scandalous waste of a very scarce metal at present, and will the Minister look into this matter and also into his policy, in order to conserve metal?
I have already done that. There are just four houses more on this estate. I have been in touch with the Minister of Supply, who agrees that these should be completed. Probably no more such houses will be built.
Will the Minister agree that Westmorland slate is cheaper and better?
No 2, Park Street
36.
asked the Minister of Works in how many places his Department is selling liquor to the public without a justices licence.
None, Sir. The administration of Park Street falls to me personally as Minister in charge of Government hospitality.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether in his official capacity he is selling drink to the public at any place other than No. 2, Park Street?
I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance.
37.
asked the Minister of Works when notice of intention to apply for a justices licence for the sale of liquor at 2, Park Street, was given; and when the application is to be made.
Having regard to the uncertainty on the future use of the premises, no application is being made for a justices licence at the present time.
What has caused the right hon. Gentleman to change his mind since, on 7th November, he informed one of my hon. Friends that he proposed to use Crown immunity only until he could apply for a licence in February?
I do not differ from what I said then, but the trouble is that the future has become more uncertain.
Among those uncertainties, does the right hon. Gentleman number the possibility that the justices might not give him a licence?
No, Sir.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he is probably personally liable if there is misconduct at these premises?
43.
asked the Minister of Works what proportion of the Prime Ministers and their staffs, respectively, who came to London for the Commonwealth Conference were lodged at 2, Park Street.
In accordance with longstanding practice, these visitors were accommodated in hotels.
Does not the failure to make use of 2, Park Street show a certain lack of confidence in its amenities?
Not at all. We followed the usual procedure with regard to these distinguished visitors. I think it is a pity that they should be drawn into this controversy.
Palace Of Westminster (Paintings)
38.
asked the Minister of Works if he will have the frescoes in St. Stephen's Hall and the Lobbies of the Palace restored and refreshed before the Festival of Britain.
There are no frescoes but only paintings on canvas, either in St. Stephen's Hall or the Lobbies of the Palace. I do not feel the programme of cleaning and repair already arranged needs any special adjustment for the Festival of Britain.
Government Offices (Building Licences)
39.
asked the Minister of Works in how many of the licences granted in London during the past year for Government office accommodation he has decided that building will not be proceeded with; and what is the total value of licences so deferred.
None, Sir. Once a licence has been granted and the developer has made his arrangements, I think it would be unreasonable to cancel it, save in the most exceptional circumstances.
Is it the intention of my right hon. Friend, despite the Prime Minister's warning yesterday that there will have to be some cuts in the civil building programme, that these licences, amounting to £3.8 million in the last year, are to be proceeded with, no matter what cuts are imposed in other directions?
No. That will, of course, be watched, but I do not propose at this moment to interfere with licences that have already been granted.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that his answer contradicts one which he gave me a few weeks ago in respect of a building in Leeds? On that occasion he said that although a licence had been issued, permission would not be granted to proceed with it.
I think my hon. Friend is not quite correct. What I said was that although it had been agreed that this building should go up, no licence would be issued until the building situation with regard to housing had improved in Leeds. I do not deviate from that at all.
I beg to give notice that, in view of the unsatisfactory state of affairs disclosed by my right hon. Friend, and the curious sense of priorities there seems to be in this direction, I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.
Building Materials
40.
asked the Minister of Works what estimate he has made of the increased requirements of the building industry for building materials on the introduction of incentive payments under the new bonus scheme on a national basis; and how far he estimates that these materials will be available.
It is impossible to forecast precisely the effect of the new incentive payments scheme, but I have called for a production from the principal building materials industries for which I am responsible, that would provide for a substantial increase in requirements.
Will my right hon. Friend be prepared to give the information when he obtains it?
Yes, I will do my best if my hon. Friend will put down another question.
Property (Requisitioning)
42.
asked the Minister of Works whether his plans for requisitioning of property in the event of an emergency have yet reached the stage when the owners of these properties have been informed; and in how many cases this has been done.
No, Sir. As a matter of normal routine my Department's plans are brought up to date from time to time, but this has not involved discussion about requisitioning with the owners of property. In the circumstances the second part of the Question does not arise.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Member for Grantham has had his house requisitioned but has not had any official intimation?
No, Sir. I am not aware of that.
Will the right hon. Gentleman look into it?
Certainly, if the hon. Member will send me particulars.
Statutory Instruments (Publicity)
44.
asked the Minister of Works what steps are taken to inform the trades and industries affected when a new Statutory Instrument, which makes a substantial alteration to the previous regulations, comes into operation.
It is my practice in such cases to make a statement in the House, to issue a notice to the Press and to communicate specially with the main organisations concerned.
Is the Minister aware that last November the Transport Commission did not know that Statutory Rule and Order No. 1641 of 1947, which controlled the prices and haulage rates of bricks, had been revoked in May, 1948?
I thought I was being asked about new orders, not about ones, that had been revoked.
Kashmir Dispute
46.
asked the Prime Minister if, following on the recent Commonwealth Conference, he proposes to make any further personal efforts to influence a settlement between India and Pakistan over the question of Kashmir.
The Kashmir dispute is on the agenda of the Security Council and is likely to come up shortly for discussion there. The United Kingdom Government are now considering, in the light of the recent informal discussions with Commonwealth Prime Ministers in London, what instructions they should give to the United Kingdom representative on the Council. I am, as always, ready to do whatever may be possible to facilitate an agreed settlement of this question.
Does the Prime Minister realise that if this dispute goes much further, there is a very real danger of war breaking out between these two Dominions? Would he care to make a statement on what took place in his efforts to settle this matter so that the public may have some idea of who is standing in the way of a settlement?
In reply to the first question I would say that I have always been conscious of the dangers that might arise out of this dispute if it was not settled. My reply to the hon. Member's second question is that it is quite obvious that it would be improper for me, as one Prime Minister, to make a statement about informal discussions with other Prime Ministers.
Does the Prime Minister intend to brand any party as an aggressor in this matter?
Atomic Energy (Anglo-American Arrangements)
47.
asked the Prime Minister whether he will give an assurance that the relationship of equal partnership between America, Britain and Canada over the development and use of atomic energy still subsists.
As I stated in the course of the debate in the House on 14th December, there was a war-time partnership between the United States, the United Kingdom and Canada for the development of the atomic weapon. By agreement between the three Governments, the nature of these war-time arrangements has not been revealed on grounds of public policy. The position of the United States Administration in many of these matters is now regulated by legislation enacted in the United States since the end of the war, and the war-time arrangements have been modified accordingly. But partnership between the three countries for certain purposes in the atomic energy field continues.
Is the Prime Minister aware that in 1945 President Truman himself recognised that this relation of equal partnership then existed, and may we not be assured that that relationship of equal partnership, which subsisted in 1945, still exists today, in 1951?
If the hon. Member had listened to my reply—
I did.
—I said that the partnership between the three countries for certain purposes in the atomic energy field continued.
There was an agreement about this in the war, and now that that agreement has been, as I understand, revoked by the Prime Minister and the Government, is there any reason why its terms should not be stated in public?
That would be a matter which would have to be agreed with the United States Govt.
Yes.
I could inquire into that, but at the present time I am precluded by that agreement from announcing what those arrangements were on the grounds of public policy as agreed with our co-signatories.
I understand that the right hon. Gentleman will inquire from the United States Government whether there are any reasons why the war-time agreement should not now be made public?
I am prepared to inquire. I would like perhaps to have a word with the right hon. Gentleman on this matter. It is, as he knows, rather complicated and rather delicate.
Is the Prime Minister aware of the recent statement by the Leader of the Opposition that this country has not the secret of the atomic bomb? If this is so is this equal partnership?
I am not aware of that statement.
May I ask whether I am to understand that for the first time in history we are bound by treaties which have not been published?
This was not a treaty.
Surely, the definition of a treaty being an agreement between this country and another country, it must be published in peace-time, otherwise it is not valid?
The point I was venturing to make is that the treaty—or not a treaty the agreement—had been revoked, not that it had been maintained and kept in secrecy. It has been revoked, and having been revoked I do not see why the secret should not be revealed.
I understood the Prime Minister to nod his head. Do we understand that the treaty has in fact now been revoked?
I have tried to explain twice that there was no treaty—it was a question of agreement. That agreement—[Interruption.]—there is a great deal of difference between an agreement and a treaty. There was an agreement, but the agreement has been changed and altered and new agreements have been made.
Festival Of Britain
48.
asked the Lord President of the Council if he will consider displaying large maps of London in prominent places for the help and guidance of visitors to the capital during the Festival of Britain.
I do not consider that any action to this end by the Festival of Britain Office is needed, since I am glad to say that London Transport Executive are to display two large maps at all stations and in bus shelters during the Festival of Britain. One, entitled "Visitors' London," will show places of interest, including Festival activities and well-known buildings. The second will show all the transport services in the Central London area.
Will those maps take the place of the present notices telling people to go to the West End to see the lighting of the shops?
49.
asked the Lord President of the Council what precautions are to be taken against power cuts at the Festival of Britain.
None of the nationwide activities which will make up the Festival of Britain from May to September are likely to be impeded by power cuts.
Does the right hon. Gentleman's reply mean that His Majesty's Government guarantee that there will be no power cuts from May to September of this year, or does it mean that special power supplies and facilities are available for the Festival of Britain which would not ordinarily be available to industrial electricity consumers?
The first part of the supplementary question should obviously be addressed to the Minister of Fuel and Power. The answer to the second part of the question is that no special arrangements have been made but the timing of the Exhibition is such that it is most unlikely that we shall experience power cuts.
National Finance
Home-Grown Tobacco
50.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state his objections to permission being given to the British Pioneer Tobacco Growers' Association and similar bodies to shred leaf grown by their members.
Yes, Sir. As tobacco grown in the United Kingdom is liable to Excise Duty of £2 16s. 5½d. per pound, its growth and manufacture must be strictly controlled. In April, 1948, my predecessor decided to allow amateurs to grow small amounts of tobacco in gardens or allotments for personal consumption without payment of duty, and towards the end of 1948 he agreed to extend the concession to cover co-operative "curing." It was, however, made clear to the two growers' associations that this was the absolute limit of the concession.
One of the bodies concerned, the National Amateur Tobacco Growers' Association, is satisfied with the concession in its present form. But since 1949 considerable pressure has been exerted by the other body, the British Pioneer Tobacco Growers' Association, for a still further extension of the concession to include co-operative "shredding," which differs essentially from curing in that it is process of manufacture. If allowed, this might result in manufacturing operations on a substantial scale and go far beyond the limited and amateur character of the original concession. The extension proposed would mean that in effect the Association would be entering the commercial field and would have, there-for, to accept the same liabilities as other manufacturers with whom they would be competing. Finally, I must point out that there is no particular reason to encourage tobacco growing as a desirable use of land, labour and fertilisers which, from a national point of view, could be more usefully employed in growing food. The loss of revenue which would follow any large extension resulting from a further concession to tobacco growers would, moreover, far outweigh any saving in foreign exchange.In view of the very large amount of foreign exchange which is now spent on importing tobacco into this country, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that such concessions as he may make to this body or similar bodies should at least be reasonable? Does not he really think that the present concession, which allows growers to have up to 25 lb. per head per annum cured without payment of duty and at the same time prevents these bodies from shredding tobacco—which is a difficult thing to do at home—is really very unreasonable and is worthy of review?
This is an argument and not a question asking for information.
I should have thought the hon. Member could have seen from the answer I gave to his original Question that I did not think that the practice of the Government was the least unreasonable in this matter. It is a question of drawing the line somewhere. We have given a large and substantial concession amounting in value to something like £70 per head, and I do not think we should go beyond that.
Expenditure
51.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will now consider making cuts in national expediture and in grants to local government to offset the increasing cost of rearmament.
I would ask the hon. Member to await my Budget statement for a review of the effect on our finances of the additional expenditure on defence.
May I ask whether we are to take it that in the intervening period between now and the Budget the Chancellor has closed his mind to any possibility of economy in the national Exchequer?
No, Sir; that would be quite wrong.
Income Tax
52.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will extend to employees generally the same freedom from assessment to Income Tax upon benefits in kind or cash allowances in lieu as he extends to coalminers, who are not assessed upon free coal or cash substituted for free coal.
In general, the value of benefits in kind received by an employee (other than a director or senior executive) is not assessable to tax unless the benefits are convertible into money. In this respect accordingly, the miner is treated the same as other employees. The exemption from tax of cash allow- ances paid to miners in lieu of free coal is a concession introduced during the war as part of a scheme to save coal by encouraging miners to accept such allowances instead. This concession has not yet been withdrawn, but I am afraid I could not agree that it should be regarded as a precedent for concessions in other fields.
What is the difference in principle between one cash allowance and another? Why not treat all alike?
I have already explained that, except in this one instance, they are all treated alike.
What is the reason for the discrimination between directors and high executives and other people?
It is obvious that in the case of personal incomes of, for instance, more than £2,000, which is the dividing line, there is no question of any hardship arising.
Is the Chancellor aware that anyone who envies the miner his concession can get it himself if he takes the necessary steps?
57.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that personal remuneration made to nonprofessional stockholders' representatives for their services in connection with the transfer of the electricity companies to the British Electricity Authority has been held to be subject to tax; and if, in view of the fact that they were casual payments of a non-recurring nature, he will reconsider this decision.
The liability to Income Tax of these payments is a question of law which falls to be determined in accordance with the provisions of the Income Tax Acts. If the taxpayers concerned are not satisfied as to their liability, it is, of course, open to them to appeal against their assessments to the appropriate body of Commissioners.
Gold And Dollar Surplus
The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of Mr. OSBORNE:
53. To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the dollar trading surplus between the sterling area and the dollar area, inclusive of the United Kingdom for 1950.