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Fuel And Power

Volume 484: debated on Monday 12 February 1951

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Economy Leaflets

3.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what is the estimated cost of the leaflets which he proposes to issue and which will urge upon consumers the importance of economy in the use of electrical apparatus.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when his right hon. Friend broadcast to the nation on 6th January he told us he was issuing these leaflets? Has he had second thoughts on the matter now?

No, Sir. I understand that various industries are issuing leaflets and we at the Ministry do not want to duplicate what they are doing.

Does the hon. Gentleman recollect that as lately as 20th November his right hon. Friend said that except at peak hours he desired to increase the consumption of electricity? Can he say when his right hon. Friend changed his mind?

My right hon. Friend was influenced by the fact that at that date the problem in the electricity supply industry was generating capacity. At the end of the year it turned into a problem of saving coal.

Petrol

9.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will give the total consumption of petrol for the latest convenient period as compared with the corresponding period before derationing.

In the 35 weeks from the 26th of May, 1950, to 25th of January, 1951, the deliveries of motor spirit by the bulk distributors of petroleum averaged 104,400 tons a week. That was 11,000 tons a week more than in the corresponding period of the year before.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what proportion of this increase is attributable to private motoring?

32.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what arrangements he has made or is making to reintroduce the rationing of petrol.

No arrangements have been made to re-introduce petrol rationing. Shortly after petrol rationing was ended last May, instructions were given for a reserve supply of petrol ration books to be printed. This was done as an insurance against any future emergency that might arise.

Electricity And Gas

18.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the average increase in cost per unit of electricity and per therm of gas, respectively, to industrial and domestic consumers, as a result of the price increase of 4s. 2d. per ton of coal and 6s. 3d. per ton of coke, announced on 1st February, 1951.

The increase in the price of coal will, no doubt, increase the cost of producing electricity and gas. But the electricity and gas boards fix the prices which they charge to their consumers, and in doing so they take many other factors into account.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether it is the policy of His Majesty's Government to encourage gas and electricity undertakings to pass on the whole of the cost increase arising from the advances in price of coal and coke, or will they, by greater efficiency, endeavour to absorb those price increases themselves?

All these organisations have a statutory responsibility to pay their way.

Does not this increase in the price of coke represent a subsidy to the gas industry? Will the Minister make a statement about the price of gas, or is that to remain at the present price and the coke industry to bear the increased cost?

No, the gas undertakings will have to decide the prices of the various commodities in accordance with the costs of production.

20.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is prepared to answer Parliamentary Questions relating to the work of the Committee set up by him to secure that the publicity activities of the electricity and gas industries are co-ordinated with his efforts to secure economy of the use by the public of electricity and gas.

29.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what are the terms of reference of the recently established Fuel and Power Publicity Co-ordination Committee; whether the proceedings and findings of this Committee will be published and in what form; and what representation of industrial and domestic fuel consumer interests will be provided on the Committee.

The task of the Committee is to consider the various forms of publicity needed to secure economy in the use of fuel and power and to advise the Ministry of Fuel and Power and the gas and electricity industries so that there may be a proper co-ordination on the general lines of this publicity.

My right hon. Friend does not think it would be appropriate for him either to publicise the proceedings of the Committee or to indicate in answer to Parliamentary Questions the nature of the advice given by the Committee on particular issues either to the Ministry or to the gas and electricity industries; nor does he think it would serve any useful purpose to add to the membership of the Committee in the way suggested by the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro).

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this Committee is presided over by himself—

—and is there any precedent for this refusal to answer Questions about the public actions of a Minister of the Crown?

This is a small Committee over which I preside, and, as I have said, it has for its object the coordination of publicity. There does not seem to be any point in publicising its proceedings or, indeed, in answering Questions about them.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the establishment of this Committee will lead to the end of the preposterous dissipation of public funds by the lack of co-ordination in these industries?

At the moment all the publicity is devoted to fuel economy. What will happen in the future is a matter which the Committee will discuss with the industries concerned.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the advertisement which I read in the "Daily Herald" on Saturday, issued jointly by the National Coal Board, the Gas Council and the Electricity Authority, asking people not to use their products, was the result of the Committee's activities?

27.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what progress is being made in Great Britain in the development of schemes for generating electricity from the water-power of rivers and tides.

Water Power Schemes

About 1,500 million units of electricity were produced in Great Britain from water power in 1950; that was an increase of 25 per cent. on 1949. The greater part of this output came from the hydro-electric stations in Scotland and North Wales. It is often alleged that our river power could be used without the construction of large works; when such plans have been examined by the Department, they have been found to be impracticable. On tidal power, I would refer the hon. Member to an answer which my right hon. Friend the Lord President gave to the hon. Member for Morecambe and Lonsdale (Sir I. Fraser) on 11th December last.

Will my hon. Friend press on with these schemes wherever possible so that coal might be saved in future?

Yes, Sir. The policy is to use water power to the greatest possible extent.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether final adjustments have been made in the price paid by Scotland to the Electricity Commissioners in England?

Power Cuts (Warning)

21.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is now in a position to make a statement on what further action he has taken to give warning to electricity consumers and specially manufacturers, of electricity cuts and in particular say what assistance he has arranged with the British Broadcasting Corporation for them to give in this connection.

30.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will make a statement on the general principle of national warnings of power cuts discussed by him with the British Electricity Authority.

33.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether plans are now complete for a radio warning of impending electricity cuts; what is the nature of such plans; and when he expects the scheme will be put into operation.

36.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is now in a position to make a statement about improving the present system for giving warning of power cuts.

My right hon. Friend is actively pursuing his discussions with the British Electricity Authority and the area boards about the methods by which more adequate warnings might be given of power cuts. In the meantime, the rota system is being perfected and more generally applied; the system of telephone warnings to hospitals, factories and other large users is being extended and experiments are being made with special short-wave radio transmitting and receiving sets. I am afraid, however, that there are still formidable difficulties to be overcome.

In view of the great interference with production, especially continuous processes, when electricity cuts take place, cannot the Minister expedite action and look into other ways of warning manufacturers in collaboration with the B.B.C.?

I think the hon. Gentleman will find that in the continuous process industries, in hospitals and emergency cases of that kind, arrangements have already been made, but we are pressing on as fast as we can with other methods for application to industry as a whole.

Lord Citrine (Speech)

23.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he has considered the extracts from the speech to a Press conference on 5th December of the Chairman of the British Electricity Authority sent him by the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames; and whether he will make a further statement on the matter.

My right hon. Friend has considered the extracts from Lord Citrine's statement which were sent to him by the hon. Member. They show that Lord Citrine did not say what the hon. Member suggested he had said when he put a Question last week, and I therefore have nothing to add to the answer which my right hon. Friend gave him then.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether that answer means that the report in the "Daily Herald" of that Press conference was inaccurate; and, second, why his right hon. Friend did not carry out his promise, made simultaneously with my promise to him, to send his version of the speech to me?

It means that the hon. Gentleman put a different interpretation on Lord Citrine's words from that of my right hon. Friend.

Will Lord Citrine shortly be revisiting this country to clear the matter up?

Hire Purchase Facilities

31.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he has yet arrived at any decision as to whether restriction of hire purchase facilities by the British Electricity Authority is required; and whether, before coming to any conclusion, he will publish comparable figures of the facilities offered by the Authority and by the private manufacturers.

My right hon. Friend has not yet decided that a restriction is required, but will continue to keep the matter under review. I doubt whether figures of the facilities offered by private manufacturers could be obtained.

If these figures are not obtainable, how does it come about that the Parliamentary Secretary's right hon. Friend committed himself to saying in last week's 'debate that the figures were not strictly comparable? How was he able to compare them if he could not get hold of the figures?

It seems to me that that is a question which ought to be addressed to my right hon. Friend himself.

I did address it to the right hon. Gentleman and the Parliamentary Secretary is here to answer for him.

Is the Minister aware that these restrictions are desirable both on financial grounds and on grounds of economy in fuel?

34.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the terms of the agreement between the area electricity boards and the manufacturers of electrical equipment.

The agreement made between the Central Authority, the area electricity boards and the electrical contractors' associations in August, 1949, has been published as Appendix 34 to the First Report of the British Electricity Authority.

Has the hon. Gentleman read the agreement? Does it contain any clause relating to hire purchase facilities?

The agreement is there for the hon. and learned Gentleman to look at, and he can draw his own conclusions.

Will the hon. Gentleman draw his right hon. Friend's attention to this, for he will discover, on reading it, that the information he gave to the House the other day, in answer to a supplementary question, was not in accordance with the facts?

I am always ready to convey the views of the right hon. Gentleman to my right hon. Friend.

Strike, London Airport

37.

asked the Attorney-General what action he proposes to take against the Electrical Trades Union for supporting the illegal strike of electricians at Heathrow.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman able to state the extent of the financial assistance granted by the Union to this illegal strike? Is the House to assume from his answer that in future unions can give support of a financial nature to illegal strikes without incurring any penalties?

No, Sir; that would be a very unsafe assumption to make. I am not in a position to say offhand the exact amount of financial assistance which was given in this case, but I had the circumstances investigated by the police and, after consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions, I came to the conclusion that this was not a case in which to take action.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say why an inquiry is not being held into this strike?

Law Of Libel

38.

asked the Attorney-General whether a decision has yet been reached to introduce legislation to give effect to the recommendations of the Porter Committee for the amendment of the law of libel.

I cannot say when it will be possible to introduce legislation to give effect to the recommendations of this Committee.

Parliamentary Disqualifications

39.

asked the Attorney-General whether a decision has yet been reached as to the nature of the body to be established to inquire into the issues raised by the case of the Reverend J. G. MacManaway and its terms of reference.

No, Sir. We have been examining the general question of Parliamentary disqualifications, although with special reference to those which most frequently arise in practice, namely, disqualifications owing to the holding of an office of profit or a contract with the Crown. We have not yet decided what would be the most appropriate body for considering the question of clerical disqualification.

Could the learned Attorney say when it is likely that a decision will be reached on this matter?

I should not like to tie myself down. It is a subject of quite unusual complexity and a good deal of controversy.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recognise the rather ridiculous distinction between clergymen of the Church of Ireland and clergymen of the Church of Wales, and the urgency of correcting an error which came from an archaic Act passed over 100 years ago?

We realise that there is an anomaly under the existing law—not of our making—but the question is how best to remedy it.

Commissioners Of Assize

41.

asked the Attorney-General the number of commissioners of assize appointed for the last autumn assize.

King's Bench Division (Lists)

42.

asked the Attorney-General the number of cases set down for trial in the King's Bench Division at the commencement of the Hilary Term; and the number set down for trial at the commencement of the Hilary Term in 1950.

The number of cases set down for trial in the King's Bench division at the commencement of the Hilary Term in 1951 was 1,669 and in 1950 was 1,524.

Legal Aid (Service Applicants)

43.

asked the Attorney-General to what extent Service applicants have to pay more under the present scheme of legal aid than previously under the Forces scheme.

Under the new scheme members of the Services contribute towards the cost of their case if, and to the extent that, their means and the general circumstances allow. In many cases they will receive aid without payment of any contribution. Under the previous scheme they were required in all cases to pay the out-of-pocket expenses of their solicitor, which were usually not less than £8 and were sometimes more. The answer to my hon. and gallant Friend's Question is, therefore, that in some cases Service applicants are better off than under the old scheme and in some are not so well off, depending in each case upon the particular circumstances of the applicant and of his case. I would add that my noble friend the Lord Chancellor and I are closely watching the actual practice of the scheme in regard to the contributions payable both by Service and other applicants.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend re-examine the position in the case of those applicants who have to pay more now, especially bearing in mind the assurance given to me in the House by the Minister of Defence on 24th May that the same facilities would be available under the new scheme for Service applications as were available under the old?

It is not really a question of re-examination. We are examining the matter at present very carefully.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether this is another example of a means test introduced by a Socialist Government?

Class Z Reservists (Chain Letter)

44.

asked the Attorney-General whether he has considered a chain letter, a copy of which has been sent to him, which is being sent to Class Z reservists inciting them not to obey their instructions for recall; and what action he proposes taking in the matter.

Yes, Sir. I am examining the position in this matter, which may constitute a conspiracy to cause disaffection among the members of His Majesty's Reserve Forces, but I have not yet decided what, if any, action to take.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman made inquiries about the organisers of this chain letter? Is it, perhaps, a Communist run organisation called the Ex-Servicemen's Movement for Peace?

Yes, we have made inquiries into the origin of the matter, and I think it started with a gentleman who is connected with that association and is an official of the "Daily Worker."

What exactly is a chain letter? Is it a letter to the Class Z reservists from the Ministry of Labour?

Wales (Administration)

45.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any further statement to make concerning the establishment of a Welsh Board of Local Government and Planning in Wales.

I would refer the hon. Member to the announcement made on Saturday by the Minister of Local Government and Planning and the Minister of Health.

Should the House be satisfied with an answer given on a Saturday to a Question asked in the House? Is the Prime Minister aware that there is grave dissatisfaction in Wales about the different legal status given to the Welsh Board of Health as compared with that of the Ministry of Health in London, because it is felt in Wales that the same legal status should be given to the Welsh Board of Health and Local Government as is given to the Ministry in England?

This is not a debate on Wales, and this supplementary goes far beyond the Question.