Statute Law Committee
1.
asked the Attorney-General whether he will make a statement about the work of the Statute Law Committee since the last statement was made on 31st October, 1949.
I have been asked to reply. The statement asked for in the Question is necessarily rather long, and, with the permission of the hon. Member, I propose to have the answer circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
Following is the statement:
1. As explained in the previous statement circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT for 31st October, 1949, the tasks set before the Statute Law Committee in 1947 fall under two main headings:
2. The consolidation Bills presented in the 1948–49 Session have all duly received the Royal Assent. They related to civil aviation, marriage, taxation of vehicles, patents, registered designs, agricultural wages in Scotland, agricultural holdings in Scotland, air corporations and elections.
3. During the 1950 Session ten consolidation Bills were passed relating respectively to the immunities and privileges of international organisations, matrimonial causes, adoption of children, arbitration, shops, the Army Reserve, the Air Force Reserve, milk, dairies and artificial cream, diseases of animals, and the housing law in Scotland.
The Matrimonial Causes Act has now been separated from the Supreme Court of Judicature Acts, which is a useful step towards a better arrangement of the Statute Book.
With two of the Bills of the 1950 Session, the Adoption Bill and the Matrimonial Causes Bill, use was made of the procedure allowed by the Consolidation of Enactments (Procedure) Act, 1949 (which provides machinery for making minor corrections and improvements solely required for consolidation). Experience has shown the advantages of the new procedure.
4. Work is still proceeding on the three exceptionally large undertakings mentioned in the statement made in 1949—the consolidation of the law relating to Income Tax, to Customs and Excise and to the work of magistrates' courts. Good progress is being made with all three.
The Bills relating to Customs and Excise and to magistrates' courts will not be pure consolidation Bills, for it is expected that some changes must he made in the law which are too structural in character and extensive in range to he dealt with under the new consolidation procedure. In their case, therefore, it will he necessary to adopt the method which proved satisfactory in the case of the Local Government Act, 1933, the Public Health Act, 1936, and the Food and Drugs Act, 1938. Bills are being prepared which, though they do not purport to reproduce exactly the existing law, do represent the substance of it as it works in practice. Each Bill will be submitted to a departmental committee comprised of persons expert in the subject to which it relates. When that method is adopted the Bill when introduced cannot, of course, be passed as a consolidation Bill; but in the past where the Departmental committee has been satisfied that a Bill contains no important or controversial changes it has subsequently proved acceptable to Parliament.
5. Thus, as regards consolidation, the present position is that 25 consolidation Acts have been passed since the Lord Chancellor announced his proposals for statute law reform in July, 1947. These 25 Acts take the place of over 90 Acts repealed by them ranging in date from 1540 to 1950. In addition to this there have been gathered into these 25 consolidation Acts numerous scattered provisions which have been eliminated from about 150 other existing Acts.
6. With regard to the second part of the task entrusted to the Statute Law Committee, the position is as follows. A second Statute Law Revision Bill was passed in May, 1950, and the Third Edition of Statutes Revised (containing all the living Public General Acts from the beginning of Parliament to the end of 1948, and all the Church Assembly Measures then in force) was published this year. As the House is aware, the Statute Law Committee thought it very important to publish all the volumes of this work simultaneously so as to secure a clean start with a complete revised Statute Book which could be kept noted up until the time comes for a new edition. Simultaneous publication of all the volumes of an edition had never before been attempted and it is satisfactory that such a difficult task has been successfully accomplished. Congratulations are due to the Editor, Sir Robert Drayton, on having completed this great undertaking before leaving to take up another appointment. This edition, and all annual volumes since 1948, can be kept noted up without skilled assistance by means of the simple directions for noting which are being published annually under the title "Annotations to Acts."
7. Owing to the unforeseen delay in the publication of the Third Edition of the Statutes Revised the publication of the Chronological Table of the Statutes, which was to have contained the Acts to the end of 1948, and been a companion volume to that edition, was held back. Advantage, however, has been taken of the delay to incorporate in the new edition the enactments passed in the meanwhile so that when it is published next month the Chronological Table will include all the statutes down to the end of 1950.
8. It was intended that the new edition of the Index to the Statutes in Force should also he published as a companion volume to the Statutes Revised, but as the current edition of the Index included no Acts later than 1945 it was felt that publication of a new Index could no longer be delayed, and a new edition was published in December, 1950. It was, however, impracticable to include in that edition Acts later than 1948 and, therefore, a further edition including all Acts to the end of 1950 is in preparation and is expected to be ready for publication during this year.
9. The new (Third) Edition of Statutory Rules and Orders and Statutory Instruments Revised (the first since 1904) is in process of publication. Eight volumes have been published and another eleven are in the hands of the printers. It is expected that this work will be completed in about 28 volumes by the end of 1951. An inexpensive cumulative publication to enable the Third Edition of Statutory Rules and Orders and Statutory Instruments Revised to be kept up to date is being prepared under instructions from the Committee.
10. A new edition of the Index to the Statutory Rules and Orders and Statutory Instruments in Force was published in December, 1950, covering the period down to the end of 1949.
11. A new edition of the consolidated Index to the Local Acts (the first since 1900) covering the period 1801 to 1947 was published in November, 1949, and work has begun on the preparation of a further edition.
12. Thus, of the three large enterprises mentioned in the statement made in 1949, the new edition of Statutes Revised and the new edition of the Consolidated Index to the Local Acts have been completed. The new edition of Statutory Rules and Orders and Statutory Instruments Revised is up to time and is well on its way to completion. With respect to the other publications for which the Committee is responsible, all arrears have now been caught up and some new publications have been undertaken.
The Statutory Publications Office has been so re-organised as to prevent the accumulation of arrears in future. Statute law revision and the preparation of future revised editions, both of the statutes and of statutory rules and orders and Statutory Instruments, is now being carried out on a day to day basis, so that when the time is ripe for new editions they can be produced at short notice.
Food Supplies
Polish Geese
4.
asked the Minister of Food what profit or loss his Department made on imported Polish geese and what was the cost of cold storing these geese since they were purchased.
The loss made under the last contract made in May, 1949, was £119,594. This included about £25,600 cold storage charges, and the payment of £86,016 import duty to the Exchequer.
Does the Minister appreciate that many people find Polish geese inedible and that they do not like their geese stored for one year, as they are in this case?
Opinions seem to vary. I have heard quite different accounts of the quality of the geese.
Eggs
5 and 7.
asked the Minister of Food (1) what changes he proposes to make in the arrangements for distribution of home produced eggs in the United Kingdom;
(2) what plans he has in hand for improving the quality and freshness of shell eggs available for sale in the United Kingdom.I am satisfied that by the present arrangements eggs get to the shops with the least avoidable delay; a fair average time between farm and shop is seven to nine days. May I remind the hon. Member that some months ago, in this House, my Parliamentary Secretary invited him to send any suggestions for improvement that he could make? That invitation is still open, but has not yet been accepted.
Can the right hon. Gentleman really pronounce himself satisfied with the fact that the total overhead charges of the Eggs Division of his Ministry and the National Egg Distributors' Association Ltd., are £1,371,000 this year and that the whole of that cost would be eliminated by allowing the egg traders to operate free from nationalised control?
The question about our overhead costs is an entirely separate one, but in recent discussions with the egg packers and egg producers, I found that they rather resent the constant implication of the hon. Member about the quality of their work.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether they also resent the suggested economy in public funds?
6.
asked the Minister of Food whether he estimates that the supply of shell eggs will justify the sale on an unrationed basis at an early date.
Mr. Webb : I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, North-West (Mr. Janner) on 7th February.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the acute hardship which is now being caused to housewives by the combination of the 8d. meat ration and only two stale eggs per week? Is not the mishandling of our egg supplies just as reprehensible as the mishandling of our meat supplies?
We are discussing eggs, but I suppose that at the moment we must drag meat into everything. We are making plans with a view to permitting retailers to sell to anybody in the next flush season, as we did last year. As far as we can look ahead, it is fairly clear that we shall do it for at least as long a period as last year and possibly longer.
Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the necessity of extending the egg priority scheme for children between the ages of two and five? Owing to the cut in the meat ration, children between two and five are suffering considerably from this shortage. Up to the age of two children receive priority eggs, but they do not do so between two and five?
I should be glad to give an answer to that question if the hon. Gentleman will put it down.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I sent him abundant evidence of rotten eggs being distributed in the flush season last year and that his Parliamentary Secretary implored me to desist?
25.
asked the Minister of Food the quantity of eggs received at collecting centres in England and Wales for the months of October, November and December, 1950, and for the same months in 1949.
Mr. Webb : The number of eggs packed during these two periods was about 536,500,000 and 382,250,000. If we take into account broken and rejected eggs, the numbers received would be slightly greater.
29.
asked the Minister of Food if he will give an assurance that no English shell eggs will be broken up for sale in liquid form until every opportunity has been given for the public to buy them as shell eggs.
Mr. Webb : As I have explained in a letter recently sent to the hon. Member, a limited quantity of second quality eggs, which are difficult to sell when eggs are plentiful, will be broken out for canning and freezing for sale to food manufacturers. But there will still be adequate supplies of second quality eggs for the shops.
May we take it that no second quality eggs will be broken down and sold in liquid form until the public have had an opportunity of buying all the second quality eggs they want in the shops?
That is a much more lucid way of expressing the answer to the Question.
What is a second quality egg?
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that unless fowl pest is stopped there will be no second quality eggs or first quality eggs either?
Do not let us be too alarmist. I agree that the outbreak of fowl pest has led to some concern about egg supplies next spring, but I am advised that it will not unduly lower supplies.
39.
asked the Minister of Food how much dried egg imported from the United States of America during the last 12 months has been found to be unfit for human consumption; what percentage this is of the total; and to what use it has been put.
I am glad to tell the hon. Member that none of the dried egg was found, on arrival, to be unfit for human consumption. One small lot was later damaged by flooding of the store and was destroyed.
Livestock (Marketing)
8.
asked the Minister of Food if his consultations with experts on the long-term policy for meat supply include a review of the present system of marketing fat cattle and fat sheep in this country; and if he will make a statement.
The purpose of these consultations is to review the entire system of marketing and distribution of livestock and of both home-killed and imported meat. A statement will be made when the consultations have been completed and considered by the Government.
Will the right hon. Gentleman make sure that when these consultations take place they will take into account the importance of having the beasts slaughtered close to where they are marketed in order to avoid long railway journeys?
As the hon. and gallant Gentleman recognises, this is an immediate question. I am not at all satisfied with the present arrangements, including the one he has raised. We are doing our best to improve it. It is a different subject from the one in the Question.
Will the question of an autumn glut of British-produced meat be taken into account in the discussion? Surely it is an absurdity to have a glut in the middle of a meat shortage.
Yes, indeed, Sir. Last autumn we just got by with the slaughterhouse facilities that we had. We are now taking steps to make sure that we shall be able to handle the increase which we hope to get next autumn.
Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that there is proper supervision over the grading of meat in this country, and that there is no deliberate upgrading for the purposes of extracting higher prices?
I am not at all satisfied with our present grading system. There are serious defects in it, but every suggested improvement seems, on examination, to make the matter worse. The present grading system seems to be the best we can operate under the system of rationing.
Why were not proper steps taken to secure an adequate supply of slaughter-houses long ago? There were repeated warnings.
Fish And Rabbits
9.
asked the Minister of Food what have been the results of his discussions with the repective trades on high fish and rabbit prices.
40.
asked the Minister of Food whether he will make a statement on the imposition of price controls on rabbits following his conversations with the trade.
Although it is not yet possible to draw final conclusions of the effects of the recent heavy landings of fish, I am glad to say that the consumers are already getting some benefit from them. Many prices are still high—principally of quality fish which remain scarce, but the retail price of cod has fallen between 2d. and 3d. a 1b.—and in many cases to around the old controlled level. However, since the heavy landings began just over a week ago, I have been carrying out a detailed investigation to find out how far and how widely the retail prices reflect the substantial fall which took place in the price at the ports. That survey will take account of the price over last week-end and during this week, and I will base any further action on the evidence it produces.
As to rabbits—prices remain high, but there has been no marked general upward movement in the last two weeks. In some districts, indeed, there has been a fall in price. Supply remains short owing to reduced supplies from overseas suppliers, and continued unsuitable weather for home trapping. Even in the most favourable circumstances of good supply, as all experience has shown, it is very difficult— if not impossible—to impose an effective control over rabbit prices. In present conditions, it would, as I have already said, be an even more hazardous undertaking. A controlled price which went at all seriously below the price now prevailing, would stop all overseas supplies coming in (these account for about 50 per cent.), and thus drive the remainder into underground trading channels. In these circumstances, I should only be justified in taking the risks of imposing controls if, (a) present prices went any higher; and (b) if any considerable increase in supplies failed to effect a reasonable reduction in present prices.If his survey of fish prices is not satisfactory in the near future, will my right hon. Friend consider imposing price control on fish?
I thought that that was the implication of my answer.
Can my right hon. Friend say how long he is prepared to wait in the case of rabbits? Could he explain the connection between the price charged at home and the imported price? I think he said that if he imposed price control at home he would prevent rabbits being imported. Can he say why?
I can give no time table for rabbits. I have given an indication that during this week I hope to be able to take a decision, one way or the other, about the price control on fish.
Is the Minister aware of the high cost of catching rabbits, that at least 50 per cent. of the value of first sale goes to the catcher, and that if a sale price is imposed the next step will be the gassing of rabbits and then the consumers will not have the benefit of rabbits at all?
Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is just now when meat is so short, that the high price of fish causes the greatest amount of hardship and difficulty to the housewife? Could he not reimpose controls, at any rate temporarily, pending improvement in the landings of fish?
I cannot add to what I have said about this. I am aware of the unfortunate concatenation of circumstances which has brought about a high price in fish at a bad season for fishing, when we have a shortage of meat. That is one of the embarrassments of the Minister of Food. But I am quite satisfied, on the most careful examination, that it would have been imprudent to have acted in any other way about the control on fish.
Is not the short answer to all this to hurry up and get some more meat, instead of forcing people to buy expensive alternatives?
That is the short answer, but not at any price.
42.
asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the high prices and scarcity of rabbits, he will now consider further arrangements for supplies from Australia to assist in connection with the small meat ration.
Rabbits may be imported freely from Australia by private traders under open general licence. I assume the hon. Member is not suggesting that my Department should re-enter the trade.
In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has been so pleasant to me on Question 41. I will not burden him further on this one.
Overseas Food Corporation
10.
asked the Minister of Food what were the considerations on which His Majesty's Government based their conclusion, stated in Command Paper No. 8125, that the cost of the proposed scheme for a modified Overseas Food Corporation in East Africa would not differ widely from that entailed by the abolition of the Corporation.
This conclusion was based on a comparison between the estimated cost of the plan accepted by the Government and the best estimate which the Corporation could make of the heavy liability which they would have had to meet for breach of contract and other commitments if the scheme had been closed.
Can the right hon. Gentleman add to that answer, because a great part of the justification of the new Government proposals in regard to the groundnuts scheme can only turn on whether it is true that it would cost as much to clear out as to stay on? The answer given by the right hon. Gentleman is wholly inadequate and causes the gravest doubts as to the wisdom of the next step.
I recognise the truth of that submission. There is a debate tomorrow and I propose to give rather more detailed information then.
If there is any value in Parliamentary debates, should we not have the knowledge now, to allow the House to take a more sensible view when the discussion arises?
This is Question Time and I should be rebuked by you, Mr. Speaker, if I were to give a long, detailed, involved answer now.
16.
asked the Minister of Food when he will be in a position to supply any interim details regarding the liquidation of the groundnut scheme in Tanganyika.
There will be an opportunity to discuss these matters in tomorrow's debate, but if the hon. Member will let me know any specific information he wants I will do my best to see that he gets it.
Will the Minister answer the point of the Question, which is about the supply of interim details of the liquidation? I did not want any information about tomorrow's debate. I wanted the information about liquidation.
That is the subject of tomorrow's debate, and it would require me to occupy the time of the House much longer than is available now.
With respect, does the Minister realise that in tomorrow's debate all these details will go underground and that we shall know nothing about them? That is why I am asking for this specific information.
17.
asked the Minister of Food whether any further expenditure of money is contemplated with regard to the cultivation of groundnuts, sunflower seeds and similar products in Tanganyika; and if he will give details.
I would refer the hon. Member to the White Paper published on 9th January.
Does not the Minister agree that that is the answer which I thought I should get and that it does not relieve him of answering my Question today. There is no reason why I should have to wait until tomorrow.
The answer to the Question has been given. All these details are in the White Paper.
18.
asked the Minister of Food what quantity and value of equipment has been sold by the Overseas Food Corporation to the Government of Tanganyika.
The disposal of its surplus equipment is a matter for which the Corporation is responsible, and the hon. Member's inquiry is now being considered by its officers.
Milk Transport, Inverness
11.
asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that the charges for carriage of milk in bottles have been so increased by Messrs. MacBrayne Limited, that in the Inverness area the public has to pay an additional 2d. per pint bottle and 3d. per quart bottle; and what steps he proposes to take to relieve this serious addition to the cost of living in this area.
I am not aware of any increases of this kind, but if the noble Lord will let me have details I will have them examined to see if there are any steps which I have the power to take.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these increases are real, and will he also bear in mind that this is just another example of how high transport charges bear on the cost of living in the Highlands? Could he have a talk with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport to see whether they cannot do something to ease this burden?
I am not sure what power I have over a company of this kind which, as the noble Lord knows, is a semi-independent, private company. If I could have details of the particular matters which he has in mind I would like to investigate them to see if I have any power to correct them.
Festival Of Britain (Visitors)
12.
asked the Minister of Food if he is satisfied that hotels and other establishments accommodating visitors to this country for the Festival of Britain will be able to obtain adequate supplies of food.
They will get their share, and I hope they will consider it reasonable.
In advertising the many attractions in this country to people in foreign countries, will the Minister make it quite clear that they are not misled in thinking that there will be an abundance of food for them here when they come?
I hope, equally, that they will not be misled by suggestions that the people of this country are starving. That is quite untrue. It is a gross distortion of the facts. The food supplies of this country in the last 12 months have been better than they have been for 10 or 12 years.
Mutton, Manchester
14.
asked the Minister of Food how much mutton was found unfit for human consumption in a consignment supplied to Manchester at the beginning of February, 1951; what percentage of the total consignment was so found unfit and how long the meat so found unfit had been in store.
None, Sir.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that 878 sheep in this consignment could not be sold until the bad bits had been cut off, and that in the case of 389 of them they were found to be covered with green and slimy mould and were then sent to sausage manufacturers?
There was indeed a complaint. We get complaints every week—that is normal. It is not a matter that is confined to the public operation of meat supplies; it has gone on right throughout time. This particular question was settled amicably between the butchers' representatives and my Ministry's local officers.
Can the right hon. Gentleman say, in connection with this amicable settlement between the butchers and the representatives of the Ministry of Food, how much of that consignment of meat had to be cut off and wasted and at what price the butchers got the remainder?
If that question is put down I shall be glad to answer it.
However amicable the settlement may have been, what steps is the Minister taking to prevent further waste of meat?
Can the right hon. Gentleman give some assurance that meat which is, according to my hon. Friend, slimy with mould is not sent to sausage manufacturers?
That is a quite inaccurate and misleading suggestion. The control over the quality of meat is not in the hands of my Department at all. It is in the hands of the officers of local authorities, who themselves test the quality of meat and who never allow any bad meat to pass into general circulation. They are most stringent in their tests, and I assure hon. Members that they need have no anxiety on that score.
Imported Food (Cost)
19.
asked the Minister of Food why he refuses to disclose the price paid for food bought by his Department from overseas even when the sellers have revealed it.
It is generally not in the public interest to disclose prices currently being paid by my Department for purchases from overseas. The disclosure of this information may sometimes prejudice negotiations with different sources of supply; but I have never refused information about past prices unless it was clear that it would prejudice trading operations. Where sellers reveal prices currently being paid, I must reserve freedom to take whatever action is in our best interests. The information given by the sellers may be incomplete or misleading and may often have been put out in the hope of drawing official comment.
If the seller gives the correct price, what is the point of denying it? Surely the trade in general knows the correct price?
"If the seller gives the correct price" is, surely, hypothetical.
Does it not become necessary, when the Government are engaged in Government trading, to suppress all criticism because they cannot stand up to it?
Meat
20.
asked the Minister of Food how many carcases of meat were recently imported from Australia to Southampton; and how many were resold to France at a profit of about £1 a carcase.
My Department have not recently imported Australian meat via Southampton, neither have they sold any to France. Perhaps the hon. Member can let me know what grounds he may have for his belief that there have been such transactions.
23.
asked the Minister of Food, having regard to the fact that his estimated supplies of meat for the present year per head of the population are 80 per cent. of the pre-war supply, and the ration is less than one-third of the pre-war average consumption, what is happening to the balance of the supply.
The hon. Member provides the answer in his own Question, when he refers to estimated supplies of meat for the present year. It would be misleading to compare yearly figures with the ration level at any particular period—such as the present difficult time. Meat supplies are seasonal; for example, we are now getting very little of the home-killed meat which made up a much larger ration last autumn and will, I hope, do so again this year.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those figures are calculations based on the unchallenged statements made by himself and his right hon. Friend in the recent debate?
They are very unfortunate calculations.
Is there any arithmetical error? If so, what?
Is it not possible that the solution may lie in the fact that a lot of people who now eat meat never had it before the war?
A lot of people have been born since then.
Is it true that we are now to lose the Webb sausage?
27.
asked the Minister of Food if he has any information as to the average age of the animals used for the meat for which his Department is paying £177 per ton in France; and to what extent he has had complaints from meat traders about its quality.
I cannot say what was the average age of these animals, none of which went to meat traders in the domestic trade. I can say, however, that several manufacturers have commented favourably upon the quality of the meat.
I could not hear the earlier part of the right hon. Gentleman's answer. Did he say that this meat went to butchers, or did not go?
It did not go.
Will the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is fantastic to pay £177 per ton for meat 25 per cent. of which consisted of old bulls just destroyed in France?
If we are to have irrelevant facts, I might give an equally irrelevant fact, namely, that the Argentine offered to sell meat to Brazil at £76 per ton.
37.
asked the Minister of Food what was the average price per ton of imports of beef and veal, other than corned, sold on the ration during the year 1950; and what was the average price per ton of imports of canned beef and veal and other descriptions of beef and veal not sold as rationed meat during the year 1950.
As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
Will the Minister reconsider his policy of encouraging the importation of luxury meat, which housewives cannot afford, and his obstinacy over the importation of rationed meat, which they want so badly?
That is a most interesting supplementary question. If it is now the considered policy of the Opposition to restrict private trade in bringing in supplements to our food rations, I would like to have more details.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the argument of the majority of hon. Members of the House is that the trade should be returned to private enterprise?
All the Question asked was about the average price and not about the meat trade generally.
Following is the information:
The average landed costs, excluding duty, for the year ended 31st December, 1950, were, as shown by the Trade and Navigation returns:
Beef £ per ton
| Veal £ per ton
| |
| Bone-in | 97.31 | 59.71 |
| Boneless | 102.58 | 84.70 |
| Other descriptions, including canned meats and edible offal | 173.03 | 220.84 |
Bone-in beef and veal are sold mainly on the ration and boneless meat mainly for manufacturing purposes. Of the other descriptions of beef and veal only canned corned meat is sold on the ration.
43.
asked the Minister of Food how much he has earned as real profit from the British tinned meat sent to Canada, the United States of America and the Argentine.
My Department does not profit from these sales as they are made by private traders, but dollar earnings from Canada and the United States of America during the past year were about 250,000 dollars. I repeat, once again, that there are no sales to the Argentine.
If, as the Minister has admitted, we are so short of meat, does he not think that it is the acme of bad judgment to let any meat go out of the country at present in this way?
That really means depriving a very important exporting section of private traders of what they regard as an important element in keeping in contact with their overseas markets. On this side of the House we do not want to prevent private enterprise from having legitimate opportunities of doing good business.
Will the Minister say how far he intends to carry out this policy? Does he intend to sell all the meat so that we have none?
44.
asked the Minister of Food if, having regard to the 10 per cent. increase in world meat supplies, he is satisfied that the United Kingdom is obtaining at least its pre-war proportion of exportable surpluses.
Yes, Sir. According to the latest estimates published by the Food and Agriculture Organisation the United Kingdom received 74 per cent. of the world's exports of meat in 1950, the same percentage as before the war. The hon. Member will bear in mind that the population of the world has increased as well as its supply of food.
I take it that the answer is "Yes"—that the Minister is satisfied that we are getting our full proportion.
We are getting the same proportion as before the war, but in view of the increase in our own population we should like to have a larger proportion.
Dutch Brisling (Imports)
21.
asked the Minister of Food the quantities, respectively, of pastes, soups, Dutch brisling, tomato ketchup and salad cream he has purchased since 1st January, 1950; how much remains on hand; how much remains unsold or in the hands of retailers; how much has been destroyed as unfit for human consumption; and what has been the loss to the taxpayer on these transactions.
My Department have bought no pastes, no soups, no tomato ketchup, nor any salad cream. About 840 tons of Dutch canned brisling was bought in 1949, part of which was imported in 1950. Rather more than half this quantity is still held by my Department. I cannot say how much, if any, remains with retailers. As far as I am aware, only about one hundredweight has been destroyed as unfit for human consumption. As sales have not yet been completed, I cannot say what the financial outcome will be.
Is the Minister not aware that home-caught brisling is both better in quality and cheaper in price? Why does he continue to waste our money in importing Dutch brisling?
That has nothing to do with this Question.
Enforcement Officers (Cost)
22.
asked the Minister of Food the total annual cost in expenses of the 581 enforcement officers employed by his Department.
About £73,500.
When will the Government realise that they must either abandon their disastrous policy or assume a dictatorship? That is the only outcome.
While we have to maintain rationing policies, we must have proper enforcement.
Snooping.
Can my right hon. Friend say what is the cost of the officers of his Department who are involved in investigating transactions that exist only in the imagination of the hon. Member for Orpington (Sir W. Smithers)?
Poultry Imports
26.
asked the Minister of Food what poultry it is intended to import, either directly through his Department or through private traders, during the months of March and April from countries where fowl pest is endemic.
My Department are not importing poultry from any source. Private traders are free to import poultry on open general licence from France and Belgium and on block licence from Poland, but I have no knowledge of the quantities likely to be imported during March and April. There are no imports of poultry from Hungary at present. I should emphasise that all these imports are subject to stringent safeguards, approved by the Ministry of Agriculture.
Is it not a fact that these safeguards have not so far prevented outbreaks of fowl pest in this country as a result of these imports? Bearing in mind that an arrangement has been made whereby America does not import birds which are infested with fowl pest, why not stop forthwith imports from Continental countries also?
My hon. Friend ought to know that on all the evidence so far available it seems to me that the present outbreak of fowl pest arose not from any of these sources of imports, but from American sources of imports.
Is any poultry at present being imported from the United States in any shape or form?
Not for direct sale to consumers.
Has not my right hon. Friend read the answer which his right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture gave to a Question on this very subject last Thursday, namely, that imports from Continental countries are proved beyond doubt to be a source of infestation?
I am in close contact with my right hon. Friend on this matter, but we have to balance two very conflicting and very difficult considerations. The need for imports of poultry is very real. As far as the risk of fowl pest is concerned, my right hon. Friend and I agreed to carry out certain quite stringent regulations, and I am quite prepared to cooperate with him even if it means, in the end, some sacrifice of our imports in order to protect the interests of our own producers.
Is poultry still being imported from the U.S.A. direct to American troops serving in this country?
That question ought to be put to some other Minister.
Cheese Ration (Farm Workers)
30.
asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the now plentiful supplies of milk, he will consider granting an extra cheese ration to small holders and farmers continuously engaged in manual work on their own farms.
I am sorry that our supplies do not permit us to do this. The reason for supplying extra cheese to farm workers is that they often cannot get home for a meal as a farmer or smallholder can. I could not, in any case, spare the cheese. After fully using our own productive capacity I still have to buy a lot of cheese for dollars to maintain the present ration.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are many small farmers and smallholders doing very hard manual work and making a great contribution to our production who also cannot get home for an extra meal and who, even if they could get home, would not have more than an 8d. meat ration or the small amount of cheese ration as protein food to eat? Will he do his utmost to take advantage of the increased milk supplies and alleviate their position?
I am very well aware of the difficulty of that section of the community, but they are not the only section with some claim to extra supplies. The problem is that once we begin to have these specialised extensions of the ration scheme one does not know where to draw the line. The real solution is in the need generally to increase the basic ration, which is our aim and purpose.
Coarse Grain Imports
31.
asked the Minister of Food how much barley and other coarse grains offered at sterling prices he has declined to buy in the past three months.
It is impossible to say. The same grain is sometimes offered simultaneously by different sellers and sometimes more than once by the same seller. I do not always, as a measure of elementary commercial prudence, accept the first offer.
How does it happen, if ordinary business shrewdness is used, that the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry failed to buy barley from Iraq last month at £32 10s. and bought this month at £35, the original barley having gone to Holland?
If the hon. Member would like details of that I would like it to be put down as a Question.
Can my right hon. Friend say in what Government publication all these details of his Department's sales are published, so that we can all be aware of them?
Dried Fruit
32.
asked the Minister of Food if he will ensure that dried fruit imported into this country will be delivered to bakers in a clean condition.
Every effort is made, both in conditions of contract and local inspection by our own trained officers, to ensure that only clean dried fruit is shipped to this country. We are not yet, however, back to pre-war standards, partly because much cleaning plant in some producing countries is in need of repair or replacement, partly because of a shortage of water-proof paper and other suitable materials used when the fruit is dried. In existing circumstances it is bound to take some time before these difficulties can be fully overcome, but I am most anxious to do all I can to improve the situation, which, I fully admit, is far from satisfactory.
Has the right hon. Gentleman had any other representations on this matter? Would he confirm that it is not from Empire countries that we get the dirty fruit, but rather from foreign countries?
The reply to the latter part of that question is that that is quite true. I have had representations, including representations from the trade, and we are doing our best to try to help them.
Did I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that we are not back yet to pre-war standards?
Yes.
Then they were better than they are now?
Yes.
Peas
38.
asked the Minister of Food what quantity of hand-picked homegrown peas of the 1949 crop he still holds unsold; what quantity of the New Zealand and Tasmanian blue peas of the 1948 and 1949 crops, respectively, he still holds unsold; what allowance he is now offering to buyers in respect of peas released in London and consigned to the Liverpool or Glasgow port areas; and what is the amount he pays British Railways for the carriage of the said peas from London to Liverpool.
About 5,000 tons bought to implement the guarantee to home growers, and about half this quantity of New Zealand peas. No allowance is being offered to buyers in respect of peas released in London and sent elsewhere. The peas are being sold on the basis that the buyer pays transport from the store and the last part of the Question does not therefore, arise.
Sugar Ration (Bonuses)
41.
asked the Minister of Food whether, with a view to offsetting the small meat ration, he will now consider increasing the sugar ration by eight ounces per person per week.
The sugar ration has recently been increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz. a week as from 1st January. In addition there will be some sugar bonuses, details of which are being given today in reply to a written Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann). These improvements are as much as we can make this year and, I think, will be generally appreciated as an adequate contribution, in the light of our general supply problems, to the food supplies of the nation.
May we have the detailed part of the right hon. Gentleman's answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann)?
It is not my fault. If an hon. Member opposite had been present to put a Question which he had addressed to me, the figures would have been given earlier. The details were in my reply to a previous Question. There will be six bonuses this year in addition to the increased ration.
Could the right hon. Gentleman oblige the House by giving us the figures which may, by mischance, not have been given earlier? There is no guarantee that the hon. Member may not have been delayed by some trains having been taken off.
I have just given the figure; it is six bonuses this year, beginning in April, [HON. MEMBERS: "How much?"] The usual bonus of one pound per month.
Would the right hon. Gentleman consider allowing people who are willing to forgo their sweet ration to buy sugar instead?
Is it not really possible to do more in the case of this vital necessity? If sugar is not in world short supply surely the Government can do something practical today?
We cannot do more this year. I should have thought that any reasonable person, taking account of our dollar difficulties, would have thought that this was not, on the whole, an unacceptable addition to our food supply.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the production of sugar beet last year reached a record level? Why should that not have the effect of increasing the sugar ration?
I am well aware of that fact, and we are all delighted about it. It is one of the factors that have enabled us to make these increases.
Civil List Pensions
45.
asked the Prime Minister if, in view of the rising cost of living, he will make a statement announcing appropriate increases in the Civil List pensions to artists, men of letters and others now on the verge of destitution.
The amount available for new pensions or increases in existing pensions was increased by Parliament in 1937 from £1,200 to £2,500 a year. There have been 156 increases in pensions during the last five years, and I intend to continue this policy.
Does not the Prime Minister realise that many distinguished men of letters and their relatives and widows are living on very niggardly sums? Will he not make some inquiries into the matter?
There have been increases. The average pension has been doubled since 1937. Every case is very carefully scrutinised. If my hon. Friend has any particular case in mind which he would like to bring to my notice, perhaps he will let me know.
In view of the statement of the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes), is the Prime Minister satisfied that a further review of this List not necessary, in view of the greatly increased rise in the cost of living?
The cases are reviewed annually. As a matter of fact I am just reviewing them now, and if it should be thought necessary I should be prepared to come to the House. There has been a steady increase in the amounts. I agree that in the past some of them were ludicrously small, but they are now being brought up to reasonable sums.
Festival Of Britain
Villages And Small Towns
46.
asked the Lord President of the Council the reasons which have led the Festival of Britain authorities to select the village of Trowell, Nottinghamshire, for special commendation to Festival visitors; and if consideration will be given to the possibility of similarly commending other villages and small towns, in other parts of the country, which have, like Trowell, shown enterprise in planning their Festival programmes but are also, in their physical aspect, more conventionally beautiful.
Trowell has been chosen as a village whose effort to produce a worthy contribution to the Festival typifies the spirit of such endeavours. The object of this selection is to encourage places which are not conventionally beautiful to seize the opportunity of Festival year and to have a go at improving their amenities. In reply to the second part of the Question, I think it is for villages and small towns to put on the best show they can and for public opinion to judge the results at the time.
Is my right hon. Friend aware—with all respect to Trowell, which, I gather, is a delightful as well as a typical industrial village—that the basic industry with which most of our villages and small towns are associated is agriculture? Is he aware that many such places as Finchingfield or Coggeshall, or even places outside Essex, have an equal claim with Trowell to special commendation by the Festival authorities? That is the point.
I appreciate that every hon. Member will have quite a list of villages which he can suggest. This one was not picked out on the basis of urging people to go there as against other villages. It is an ancient village; the first mention of it was in 802; its motto is "Independence and self-help "—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I thought that that might revive the earlier doctrines of the Opposition—and, in the words of the rector, it is the type of English village where the old rural life is passing away and where an industrial community has been superimposed. [An HON. MEMBER: "This is a funeral, not a Festival."] My information is that it is a good example of a case where the parish council is struggling with an industrial superimposition to prevent the village from being spoiled. It was chosen merely as an example of modern social problems in a village.
Arising out of the right hon. Gentleman's speech, might I ask him whether he could, for the benefit of my constituents and others having rural constituencies, explain the meaning of the term "conventionally beautiful," so that in his eloquent words they may "have a go?"
Is it not a fact that this village combines the strength of modern industry with the peaceful beauty of the English countryside, and is, therefore; typical of England today?
I understand that that is so.
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether conventional beauty or the fact of its being a typical English village was the criterion on which the selection of this village was based? May I also ask him whether my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr. Driberg) had been to see it before he put down this Question?
I do not suppose that for a moment.
Nor had the Festival people when they picked it.
Will the right hon. Gentleman consider asking the National Association of Parish Councils for some further recommendations?
I do not think so. I should think that it would split them all over the place.
"Cutty Sark"
47.
asked the Lord President of the Council whether he will consider refitting and putting on show in the Thames for the Festival of Britain the last of the tea clippers, "Cutty Sark," in view of its beauty and as a monument to British shipbuilding.
Whilst I have the greatest sympathy with the idea, which has already been given careful consideration by the Festival organisers, I regret that it is impossible. There is no mooring near the South Bank Exhibition capable of accommodating her, and there are other practical problems involved.
Is not the "Cutty Sark" mainly a monument to what can be done by the private importation of tea in comparison with bulk buying?
Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the "Cutty Sark" may in many ways be considered more suitable than the other vessel which, I understand, is being moored off the Festival Gardens, in view of her past experience in trading, and the job that she did in the tea trade?
Apart from the Festival of Britain, would the Lord President consider how a monument of this nature could be put on a lasting footing?
Is not the "Cutty Sark" naturally an exhibitionist?
Is this the original "Cutty Sark" mentioned by Burns in "Tam o'Shanter"?
I do not know, but I well remember "Tam o'Shanter."
United Nations
Rehabilitation Fund, Korea
51.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what States have contributed to the United Nations organisation's fund for the rehabilitation of Korea; and how much cash has been contributed or promised.
The following States have offered contributions: Australia, Canada, Egypt, Guatemala, Indonesia, The Netherlands, Norway, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Syria, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Venezuela. Individual offers of cash amount to 204 million dollars. Several of the larger pledges are, however, dependent on the offer of adequate contributions by other participants.
Have Communist-controlled countries contributed nothing?
I think that is quite correct.
Arab Relief Programme
57.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what contribution has been made by the United Kingdom to the Arab relief programme of the United Nations; and what proportion this sum is of the total amount subscribed.
In 1949, His Majesty's Government contributed £1 million to the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees, and in 1950 a further £3,200,000, including the £1 million interest-free loan to Jordan, to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency. His Majesty's Government have offered to contribute £2,850,000 to the Agency's 1951–52 programme, on condition that other Governments make adequate contributions. Over the whole period covered by these programmes, His Majesty's Government's contribution amounts to about one-fifth of the total subscribed or promised.
Does that answer mean that many countries have been backward in making contributions? If so, what steps are being taken to persuade them to contribute?
Subscriptions to this very important fund have been rather disappointing and action to try to get further subscriptions has been taken by the General Assembly of the United Nations, who appointed a negotiating committee quite recently for the purpose.
In view of the fact that these unfortunate people have been in a refugee camp for the last four or five years, would not the most valuable contribution His Majesty's Government could make be to ensure the resettlement of them in, for example, some of those African territories where, I think, there is already an Arab population? Will not the hon. Gentleman at least give consideration to that point?
I will certainly give consideration to that. It is rather a wide question which the noble Lord has raised. Resettlement is a matter which the United Nations Agency wishes to pursue, but shortage of funds makes it rather difficult.
Can my hon. Friend say what contribution has been made to this fund by the Arab countries?
Not without notice.
Has there been any diminution in the great stress from which these people have been suffering?
I could not, without notice, give an up-to-date answer about precise conditions.
Can the House be told whether contributions so far have been actual or merely promises; and, secondly, what action the Foreign Office have taken to try to get the maximum of help for these people out of the Israeli Government?
I should want notice of the second part of that question. The total subscribed for 1949, I think, was £8 million, and approximately £15 million was subscribed for the following year.
Actual or promises?
Actually subscribed, I think. The figure for the later year, including promises, amounts to about £12 million, but I have not got the proportion between the actual subscriptions and the promises.
Is my hon. Friend satisfied that this money is being well spent? Is he aware that I recently visited a camp where 7,000 Arab refugees were living in intolerable conditions? What will be done to settle these people on the land and give them work?
Conditions out there are extremely difficult, particularly in view of the fact that the amount considered essential was about double what has actually been subscribed. We think that the Agency has done its best in this matter, but, undoubtedly, with the very large number of refugees involved, the conditions are not all that they should be.
Can the Minister say whether Egypt has been called upon to make an adequate contribution?
I think that all countries have been asked to make a contribution, but I should need notice before I could give the result.
Bearing in mind the considerable sums which His Majesty's Government have already given to this fund, will the Minister consider the desirability of achieving a more satisfactory machinery to prevent further outrages which cause the need for further funds, particularly in connection with the mixed Armistice Commission, which seems to be very ineffective at the moment?
That is another question.
In view of the great feeling on this subject which there is in all parts of the House, could not the Government make a considered statement about the present conditions of the fund, the possibility of resettlement and the general urgent needs in this connection?
I will certainly consider the right hon. Gentleman's proposal.
War Criminals, Germany (Release)
52.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent there is joint consideration between the High Commissioners in Western Germany on questions of mutual interest such as the release of war criminals; and with whom the power of decision resides.
It was agreed at the end of the war that apart from the major war criminals, who were tried under quadripartite auspices, war criminals should be tried by the Allied authorities of the different zones. It follows that questions regarding the review and modification of sentences imposed by United Kingdom, United States and French courts are not dealt with on a basis of joint consideration, but are the individual responsibility of the respective national authorities as represented by their High Commissioners. I should add that in the case of the United Kingdom zone, where responsibility in regard to war criminals has hitherto lain with the United Kingdom High Commissioner, the position, as my right hon. Friend, the Prime Minister, stated on 12th February, is at present under consideration.
Is not there a danger of differing practices leading to misunderstandings, and have not recent examples shown that some of the releases have been, I should have thought, unacceptable to many people in the world, who have no control over them?
My hon. Friend will appreciate that the sentences under review are judicial sentences, and that one has to be very careful about the manner in which they are reviewed. There has been a certain exchange of information between the High Commissioners about their intention to review and the general principles they propose to apply.
Does not the hon. Gentleman think that more active steps should be taken to bring to a conclusion the quiet but sustained civil war going on between the British and American High Commissioners in Germany?
I entirely deny the implication in the last supplementary question.
Will His Majesty's Government consult with Dr. Adenauer's Government on this question, which seems to me to be an important thing to bring about?
It is essentially a matter for consideration between the Allies.
On a point of order. The answer just given refers to this as a matter for consideration, Sir. When I sought to ask a Question on this matter the other day I was refused, on the grounds that there was no responsibility. Apparently, the hon. Gentleman is now accepting responsibility.
I said that it was a matter for consideration by the Allies, but not that all aspects should necessarily be a matter of consultation between them.
In view of the grave matters of principle involved here, will my hon. Friend take steps to bring any further recommendations of remissions of sentences before the United Nations organisation so that at least human rights may be considered?
I do not think this is a matter which, prima facie, it would be appropriate to bring before the United Nations organisation.
Antarctic (Argentine Expedition)
53.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his approval was sought or obtained by the Argentine Government for the proposed visit of a military and scientific expedition, which recently embarked in the Santa Micaela, to the Britisch Antarctic zone; and if he will make a statement.
No such approval was sought or obtained by the Argentine Government. As has often been stated in this House, His Majesty's Government do not recognise Argentine claims to sovereignty over any part of the Falkland Islands Dependencies, and have on several occasions protested to the Argentine Government through the diplomatic channel about unauthorised incursions into these territories. Local protests have also been delivered as and when the occasion offered.
What action is the Foreign Office taking to prevent the Argentine Government from acquiring squatters rights in this British possession?
We are taking action open to us to maintain our legal claim. We have, as the House has been informed, offered to submit this matter to the International Court; but that offer has not yet been accepted.
Was not there an agreement that there would not be a naval demonstration in the Antarctic? What is the difference between a military demonstration carried out on the high seas and a naval demonstration carried out on shore?
An answer given by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary on 12th February explained the position about the naval operation, which is a rather different matter from this expedition.
Japan (Peace Treaty)
55.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he is taking to ensure that the views of the Pacific Dominions are fully considered in connection with any future peace treaty with Japan.