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Commons Chamber

Volume 484: debated on Tuesday 20 February 1951

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House Of Commons

Tuesday, 20th February, 1951

The House met at Half past Two o'Clock

Prayers

[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]

Private Business

British Transport Commission Bill (By Order)

Second Reading deferred till Thursday.

LUTON CORPORATION BILL (By Order)

SHEFFIELD EXTENSION BILL (By Order)

WEST RIDING COUNTY COUNCIL (GENERAL POWERS) BILL (By Order)

Second Reading deferred till Tuesday next.

WORCESTER CORPORATION BILL (By Order)

Read a Second time, and committed.

Oral Answers To Questions

Employment

Disabled And Elderly Persons

1.

asked the Minister of Labour what number of persons in the United Kingdom are registered as disabled and fit for light work only at the last convenient date; how many have been unemployed for a greater period than six months; and how this compares with the previous 12 months.

I assume my hon. Friend is referring to unemployed disabled persons who are regarded as unlikely to obtain employment except under sheltered conditions. On 11th December, 1950, there were 8,183 such persons in Great Britain. The number of these who had been unemployed over six months is not available. In October, 1949, 7,512 out of 10,318 had been unemployed six months or more, and in April, 1950, 7,028 out of 9,623.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that many disabled people could be found work today but for the strict regulations governing employment, which do not differentiate between the unscrupulous who would exploit them and public-spirited people who would find them work if it were not for these strict regulations? Will he look into the matter with the Minister of National Insurance and attempt to solve the problem?

What T.U.C. regulations prevent these people from getting employment?

6.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the conversations he has had with the National Joint Advisory Council on the question of the increased employment of the middle-aged and elderly.

15.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will make arrangements with Royal Ordnance Factories establishments and public and private employers of labour to engage a greater number of disabled and elderly persons, in view of the impending heavy demands on the available labour strength.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend drew the attention of the Council to the importance of encouraging and facilitating the retention in employment of older persons able and willing to continue to serve irrespective of their ages, and the need to revise traditional attitudes and practices with regard to old age and retirement. This is important in the short term because of our manpower needs, and in the long term because of the increasing proportion of older persons in the population and the consequences for the national economy and the general standard of living on their ceasing to work. The Council endorsed this policy, and my right hon. Friend is meeting both sides shortly to discuss the measures to be taken.

As regards the disabled, employers generally are co-operating fully in the engagement of disabled persons, frequently in excess of the quota requirement.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what lead the Government themselves are giving in this matter?

In view of the position which is likely to arise, will my hon. Friend consider asking the ordnance factories and public employers not only to step up the quota of disabled people but also not to require a man to be 100 per cent. fit, because the figures show that many thousands of the 300,000 unemployed may be 90 per cent. fit, and they would have a useful contribution to make?

Will the Minister impress upon the nationalised industries as well as the others the importance of this question?

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the nationalised industries are represented on the Council and they take an important part in the consideration.

Was it with the Minister's agreement that an age limit of 60 was put on the enumerators for the forthcoming census?

Railwaymen (Redundancy)

4.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the contacts which his Department has with nationalised industries has enabled him to discover the number of railwaymen who have been rendered redundant by the cuts in railway services.

I understand that no railwaymen have been rendered redundant by the recent cuts in railway services.

If thousands of trains are taken off and the same number of men are kept in full employment, does not it make a mockery of the policy of full employment and show that men are being kept on to do nothing?

So far the Railway Executive have found it possible to absorb traffic staff displaced as a result of cuts in the passenger train services by transferring them to other work to relieve a staff shortage.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that there is a considerable sick list on British Railways at the present time, and that it has been rather fortunate that there was this surplus of men available to be absorbed in this particular manner?

Will the hon. Gentleman look into the reason for the dismissal of a large number of men from the Lancing railway works? I have been unable to get a reply from Lord Hurcomb. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary can give me a reply.

Catering Wages (Prosecution)

5.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the cost to his Department of the prosecution and appeal concerning the non-compliance by the Florida restaurant with the Catering Wages Act.

The cost to the Department depends on what costs the Department recovers. The divisional court awarded the Department the costs of the appeal, and the costs in the magistrate's court are sub judice.

Is not the Minister aware that this continued interference in our private affairs is impeding recovery and is evidence that we are going step by step down the totalitarian road? Thank God we have got courageous and independent judges.

Strike, Frickley Colliery

7.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that the strike at Fleckney Colliery, Yorkshire, is being caused by the same reasons as the prolonged strike at Grimethorpe Colliery in 1947: and what steps he is taking to prevent this strike from spreading.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the stoppage of work at Frickley Colliery, Yorkshire. I am informed that the stoppage arose from the refusal of certain workers to operate a new price list agreement which involves the transfer of a number of men to other parts of the pit. The agreement in question was made between representatives of the National Coal Board and of the National Union of Mineworkers through the established conciliation machinery of the industry and I understand that the men resumed work yesterday morning to enable discussions on any difficulties which may have arisen to take place through that machinery.

Women (Wage Rates)

8.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will ask the unions and employers if, during the meetings which he has requested them to hold to consider the position of women in industry, they will discuss the application of the rate for the job in industry, particularly in view of the need for women recruits to help with the defence programme.

In any discussions between representatives of workers and employers regarding the employment of women, questions of wage rates must be settled by the appropriate wage negotiating procedures set up by each industry.

Is that answer a variation of the usual stone-walling tactic on this matter or may it be taken as a sign that we are at least to have this question considered?

Was it the lack of the rate for the job which led 200 foundry men to walk out because one woman had walked in?

As the rate for the job is paid in the higher grades of professional service, irrespective of sex, does not the Minister think that the time had come when this principle should be extended to the lower grades and to those in industry?

Arising from the original Question and reply, is the Minister aware that the Government can do nothing whatever about enforcing the rate for the job in industry until they are prepared to enforce it in their own Government employment?

Appointments Register

9.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed persons are on the Central Appointments Register of his Department at present; how many vacancies were notified to the Register during 1950; and how many of these vacancies were filled by persons on the Register.

The number of unemployed persons on the Technical and Scientific Register and the Appointments Register was 8,733 on 15th January, 1951. The number of vacancies notified during the 12 months ended 11th December, 1950, was 22,364. The number of vacancies filled in the same period was 9,962.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many candidates recommended by the Appointments Register are not even given an interview by prospective employers, and is he satisfied that the method of selection of candidates and the presentation of their claims by his Department is satisfactory?

The procedure is satisfactory so far as the Department is concerned. If the hon. Gentleman has any case where satisfaction has not been received from the employer's side, I should be very glad to have details of it.

Trade Unions

10.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now appoint a tribunal, on similar lines to that referred to in the Quiz on the recall of Army and Royal Air Force Reservists, composed of trade unionists, employers and independent members, before which Plymouth Brethren and others who have a conscientious objection to joining A trade union may appear.

Does not the hon. Gentleman consider that there should be fair shares of conscientious objection for all?

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that refusal to join a trade union is hardly a greater crime than refusal to bear arms in the country's defence, and that this discrimination is both unfair and undemocratic?

Inability Of Labour

11.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that of the total working population in civil employment of 22,511,000 over 10 million are engaged in transport, distribution, professional, financial and miscellaneous services and in the Civil Service; and what special steps he is taking to see that some of this labour is made mobile so as to ensure availability of adequate labour for the defence programme.

The provision of labour for the defence programme means finding the right type of labour in the right place. I would refer the hon. Member to the statements made by my right hon. Friend and the Chancellor of the Exchequer on mobility of labour in the defence debate on 15th February.

Yes, but I asked the Parliamentary Secretary if he would take special steps to get some of these 10 million people put into productive industry if they are required for the defence programme?

The Table below shows the minimum time rates of wages in the stock brick manufacturing industry in

North-East Kent in agreements made by the National Joint Council for the Building Brick and Allied Industries and the Joint Industrial Council for the Stock Brick Manufacturing Industry.

Class of WorkerMinimum Hourly Rates of Wages operating on:—
10th February, 195110th October, 19451st April,* 1942
s.d.s.d.s.d.
Able-bodied adult male workers:—
Labourers, earth-diggers, sorters (clamp) and off-bearers (machine made)2417†13‡
Sorters (Kiln-car) crowders, off-bearers (hand made) and temperers (hand or machine made)217½†13½†
Setters and moulders (hand or machine made)2518†14‡
Per 8-hour shiftPer 8-hour shift
Burners26║154†110
Boiler Firemen25║
Per weekPer week
Women 18 years and over1950036
Hours of labour in a full week444848

* This is the first date for which figures are available.

† Subject to the addition of 1d. an hour for each and every hour worked.
‡ Plus war bonus of 1d. an hour.
§ Plus war bonus of 4d. a day.
║ Burners and boiler firemen employed on a three eight-hour system are paid in addition a shift allowance of 2d. an hour, and on a two eight-hour system 1d. a hour.

Registration Areas

16.

asked the Minister of Labour in view of the fact that the practice of classifying workers in an industry as working in the area in which compel labour to go into certain types of industry.

Is not this an argument for reducing the number of Members of Parliament, who presumably are included in the 10 million referred to in the Question?

Kent Brickmakers (Wages)

13.

asked the Minister of Labour what are the current minimum rates of wages paid to Kent stock brick-makers; and how these compare with those operating in 1939 and 1945.

As the answer contains a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the answer:

the registered office of the employer is located is misleading, if he will consider registering employed where they live and not where their employers' registered office is located.

No, Sir. The figures collected by the Ministry of Labour and National Service of the number of employees in an industry are based on the exchange of insurance cards and are therefore classified according to the local office where these cards are exchanged. Most employers find it convenient to exchange the National Insurance cards of their employees in bulk. The classification of these cards individually by address of the employee would impose a considerable extra burden of clerical work which I do not think could be justified.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, while there would be a good deal of extra work involved, the figures for the City of Edinburgh, for example, show a vast surplus of building labour which certain people think should be employed in Edinburgh, though in actual fact this labour is engaged in other parts of the country?

I realise the hon. Gentleman's difficulty, but I think he would agree that it would be wrong to absorb more people in unproductive work of this type at a time when we need them so badly in productive industry.

Index Of Retail Prices

Fish

3.

asked the Minister of Labour what weight is given in the cost-of-living index to the price of fish.

Out of a total weight of 1,000 assigned to all items at the start of the index in June, 1947, approximately 10 was for fish, including canned fish.

Does that take into account the recent high prices for fish which people have to buy because there is no meat?

The Index of Retail Prices, like those indices in other countries, measures the changing cost on a fixed basket of goods and not on one particular item.

Advisory Committee

12.

asked the Minister of Labour to state the terms of reference of the reconstituted Cost of Living Advisory Committee; and, in particular, whether these terms include the formulation of proposals for a permanent index of retail prices or more than one such index.

In calling together the Cost of Living Advisory Committee it was not considered necessary to vary the original terms of reference. These are:

"To advise the Minister of Labour and National Service on the basis of the official cost of living index figure and on matters connected therewith."
These terms are clearly wide enough to embrace proposals for a permanent index of retail prices or for more than one index.

Will the hon. Gentleman make it clear that the Committee can recommend a broadening of the basis of the index to include such groups as old people and middle-class people?

National Service (Agricultural Workers)

14.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the decision to call up agricultural workers is restricted to those becoming liable to National Service from now on or applies to all those whose call-up has been postponed, subject to their remaining in their present occupation, and have not yet attained the age of 26 years.

The decision applies to those who were required to register for National Service on 3rd February last and subsequently—that is to say, to young men born on or after 1st January, 1933.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how many young men are liable to call-up compared with the 15,000 whom it is proposed to call up?

Can the Minister explain what procedure agricultural employers should take where the call-up of young men will result in serious losses of agricultural production?

There is time to give that information. This scheme will not operate until 1st November, as the hon. Gentleman knows.

Will the hon. Gentleman arrange for a general statement to be made as soon as possible upon the liability of agricultural workers in general to military service, as there is considerable confusion about Territorials and so on?

Can my hon. Friend say to what extent the National Farmers' Union and the Scottish Farm Servants' Union were consulted before this decision was made?

Scotland

Teachers' Superannuation (Inquiry)

18.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the actuarial inquiry into the teachers' superannuation scheme has now been completed; and if he will make a statement on the possibility of introducing a scheme to provide pensions for the widows of teachers.

I am informed that the report on the inquiry is nearing completion. I have nothing to add to the answer given to the hon. Member on 20th June, 1950, regarding pensions for the widows of teachers.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on 20th June last, the hon. Lady the Joint Under-Secretary said that the report would be ready by the end of the year? Can he say when he is likely to be able to say anything further on this matter?

My hon. Friend is dependent on outside activities for this information. I would not like to add to what I have said, but I do not think the report will be unduly delayed.

Medical Practitioners (Appeals)

19.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the rules of procedure adopted by the Scottish Medical Practices Committee in hearing appeals from medical practitioners against decisions of local executive councils.

I am sending to the hon. Member a copy of a memorandum which the Scottish Medical Practices Committee supply to appellants explaining the procedure.

Would the Secretary of State say what is the date of the memorandum? Is it the November memorandum? Have there not been consultations since then?

I could not without notice give the date of the memorandum, but it is quite recent. It is a memorandum upon which the Medical Practices Committee operates.

Wool Marketing Scheme

20.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the high profits made in the 1950 wool clip, whether he will amend the Wool Marketing Scheme to allow certain distributions of profits to the producers before the statutory five years.

No amendment of the Wool Marketing Scheme, as such, is necessary to enable the Marketing Board to make supplementary payments to producers registered under the Scheme. Provision for making limited supplementary payments is made under the agreed financial arrangements. No request has been received from either the National Farmers' Unions or the Wool Marketing Board for additional payments to be made to individual producers from any annual surplus.

Do I understand from that reply that the Wool Marketing Board can make a distribution of profits without reference to the Secretary of State? Is that the case?

It is a quite complicated matter. I do not think the noble Lord was making the point that he perhaps wanted to make in his Question, but the distribution cannot be made outwith the existing financial arrangements.

In order to clear up, this point, is it not a fact that any such alteration would require the consent of Parliament, in which case the Secretary of State would have to come to the House with an amending scheme?

Any change within the agreed five years would, as the hon. Gentleman has said, require the assent of Parliament.

Hospital Registrars

21.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is in a position to make a further statement regarding the future of hospital registrars and senior registrars and concerning the establishment of a grade of junior consultants between registrar and consultant grades.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say when he expects to be able to make a statement on this question?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate, as I know he would wish, that I must have full consultations with the medical organisations affected by any such change. I would merely say that I would make no decision without fully consulting them.

Local Authority Housing

22.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total value of local authority housing works authorised in Scotland during 1950.

Local authorities received approval last year to tenders for new houses amounting to about £29 million. No estimate can be given for works of repair, conversion and maintenance carried out by local authorities on existing houses.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, can he state what percentage that represents of the total authorised building?

I will consider whether I can help my hon. Friend with further figures, but I think he will appreciate that the figures will only come into my possession as far as the works are grant-aided or the local authorities require borrowing permission.

In view of the desperate housing situation in Scotland—a situation which is getting worse—will the right hon. Gentleman say when he hopes to authorise an increase in the programme?

Will the right hon. Gentleman translate that sum of £29 million into actual houses? How many houses are being built?

The hon. and gallant Gentleman knows that we publish monthly figures, and I have just published the annual return of last year's building of houses.

Could not the right hon. Gentleman give me a reply to my reasonable question?

Orlit Houses, Irvine

23.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what were the reasons for the delay by the Scottish Special Housing Association in connection with the building of 114 Orlit houses in the Burgh of Irvine.

Work was suspended on this scheme last summer because of defects found in this type of house in another area. Remedial measures were agreed with the manufacturers and contractors, and work was resumed on the scheme in August last.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Scottish Special Housing Association started the building of these 114 Orlit house in October, 1949, that the major number of houses are still in the initial stages of building, and that this burgh is suffering particularly from bad housing? Will he take some steps to hurry on the Association, so that we can get some houses there?

I have every sympathy with my hon. Friend, but I am sure that he would be the first to object strenuously if I permitted indifferent building to go on. The remedial measures have now been agreed upon, and I hope they will prove satisfactory. I am pushing on building, incorporating the remedial measures, as fast as I can.

Housing Scheme, Harthill

24 and 25.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) what has been the cost of each type of house, including the house completely finished with all services, administrative expenses, plans and fees, on the Scottish Special Housing Association's direct labour scheme at Harthill;

(2) when site preparation work started at Harthill; and how many houses are now occupied.

Site preparation at Harthill started in May, 1948. Up to date, 100 houses have been occupied and 96 are under construction. Altogether, 256 houses are to be built at this site, and it is not possible to give final costs of each type of house until the whole scheme is completed. Preliminary indications are that, particularly with the introduction of incentive schemes about a year ago, final prices will compare favourably with current contractors' prices.

Is the Secretary of State satisfied that this experiment, upon which so much hope was based, has been entirely satisfactory, since it commenced in 1948 and is not yet completed?

I am never satisfied unless any experiment completely yields the results we need, but I think that this experiment is not discouraging.

Can the Secretary of State explain why he cannot give the price, since no builder in the world would ever go on building houses without knowing what they cost? Surely, the right hon. Gentleman must know the figure?

It would be hard indeed for me to attempt to teach the hon. Gentleman the technicalities of this business, but I suggest that out of a scheme of 200 he would not offer the price of one completed house as a firm commercial undertaking. If there were 200 houses, he would offer the overall price for the 200

Ministry Of Pensions

Limbless Ex-Service Men

26.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will consider an increase in the number of amputation socks issued by his Department to limbless ex-Service men.

The individual issue is eight a year, and additional socks are readily supplied where necessary; for example, if the nature of the person's occupation calls for frequent changes. My information is that these arrangements meet the needs of pensioners satisfactorily. If the hon. Member has in mind a particular instance where further socks are required, I should be glad to look into it.

27.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that amputees from Leicester have to travel to Nottingham for limb fittings or repairs; that there is accommodation available in Leicester for a limb-fitting centre; and if he will arrange for one to be opened in Leicester in the near future.

I am aware that patients from Leicester needing limb fittings and major repairs to limbs have to travel to Nottingham. At present, the number of these patients does not justify the attendance of surgeons, fitters and technicians at Leicester, but I am keeping the matter under review.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are 145 members of B.L.E.S.M.A. in Leicester and the county, apart from those who are not members, and, in view of the fact that, under the National Health Scheme, limbless civilians have to be attended to, does he not consider that it is high time that this important city of Leicester and its needs in this regard should have a centre in which they could be attended to?

No, Sir; I do not think it is high time, but I am keeping the matter under review and have called for a report.

In view of the serious conditions now prevailing, I have no alternative but to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

30.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the great increase in the cost of woollen clothing and the heavy wear on socks, trousers and shirts of artificial limbs, he will increase the clothing grants paid to amputees.

As I told the House in the debate on 16th February, this is one of a number of matters which I am examining. I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

Will the Minister bear in mind the special hardship which that causes to men in industrial employment where there is wear on the outside of the clothes as well as on the inside from the artificial limbs?

Coronary Disease

28 and 29.

asked the Minister of Pensions (1) how many widows of ex-Service men who died in the Services or died after being discharged from the Services with coronary thrombosis have been granted pension during the past five years;

(2) how many ex-Service men who have been discharged from the Services because of coronary thrombosis have been granted pensions in the last five years.

Separate figures are not kept in respect of coronary thrombosis, but during the past five years 554 disablement pensions were awarded in respect of coronary disease, and 780 pensions were granted to widows of ex-Service men who died from that cause.

Would I be correct in saying that that reply means that nobody with coronary thrombosis has been granted a pension, and that the reason for that is that the medical advisers in the Ministry of Pensions have never yet admitted that stress and strain are contributory causes of coronary thrombosis? Will the Minister go into this matter, because nothing has been done so far?

If my hon. Friend or any other hon. Member will give me any special cases of this kind, I shall be very glad to look at them.

Is the Minister aware that a fortnight ago I gave him particulars of the case of a Liverpool sergeant, who, after 18 years' service, died from coronary thrombosis, and whose widow was refused a pension?

I quite remember that case, and the decision was in line with the statement I have made.

British Army

Troops, Korea

33.

asked the Secretary of State for War why no awards of the Military Cross to junior officers, or of the Distinguished Conduct Medal or Military Medal to those in the ranks, have been given for service in Korea, while two lieutenant-colonels have received the Distinguished Service Order, and two majors the Victoria Cross and bar to the Military Cross, respectively.

The hon. Member has been misinformed in that the award of a bar to the Military Cross was made to a captain and not to a major. Moreover, the Military Cross has now been awarded to a second-lieutenant, and the Military Medal to a warrant officer and a corporal.

Can the Secretary of State for War explain why so few awards have been made—and only since this Question was tabled—to the junior ranks, and will he have the whole procedure for considering these recommendations speeded up, bearing in mind that it is only through the gallantry of those under his command that the senior regimental officer can himself qualify for an award?

I understand that there are a number of recommendations on the way, but I should be loth indeed to interfere with the discretion of the commanding officers and the commander of the British troops there in the granting of these awards for gallantry.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is not a question of the discretion of commanding officers? They make recommendations, and it takes two or three months for those recommendations to be decided upon.

41.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that the delay in paying active foreign service pay to His Majesty's Forces in Korea is causing dissatisfaction amongst the troops there and to their families; and if he will take steps to remedy this matter.

I would refer the hon. Member to the replies given to the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Major Beamish) on 6th and 13th February.

Is the Minister aware that, in particular, the 27th Brigade, who have been in Korea since August last, will not be very pleased about his answer, considering that they had a special allowance in Hong Kong before they left which was cancelled when they went to Korea, and considering that prices are three or four times higher in the N.A.A.F.I. there than they are at home? Is he aware that this is causing great dissatisfaction?

This is not a question of active service pay, which does not exist in the Army. It is a question of a local overseas allowance based on the cost of living as compared with the cost in Hong Kong. We are always ready to receive recommendations from the commanding officer on that matter in respect of Korea.

Surely when these troops had an allowance in Hong Kong and that allowance was taken from them when they went into the fighting line, something can be done?

43.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware of the distress caused to forward troops of the Middlesex Regiment, owing to the fact that as late as 12th January of this year they had not received supplies of boots appropriate to winter conditions in Korea; and what action he proposes to take to remedy this matter.

Boots of Finnish pattern, which are designed for use in snow, were made available in Korea in sufficient numbers for the whole of the 27th Brigade by 22nd November. I have not received any reports of undue delay in their issue, although there may have been some temporary difficulty in meeting individual requirements in sizes.

Is the Minister aware that, according to my information, the 1st Battalion Middlesex Regiment had not received any of these boots as late as 12th January and as a result large numbers of our troops are suffering from pneumonia and frostbite?

I find it very difficult indeed to credit that information because, as I said, ample supplies have been in Korea since 22nd November.

Does not the Minister remember giving the House an assurance earlier than November that all the necessary winter clothing had arrived in Korea and how does he justify that assurance in view of this information?

Winter clothing had arrived before that. For example, the 29th Brigade took this winter clothing out with them, but extra supplies of boots, making certain they were available for all troops, arrived on 22nd November.

Will the Minister look into the distribution after their arrival, if they did arrive, in Korea, because it looks as though they have not been distributed?

Yes, but distribution must be a matter for the authorities and the commanding officers in Korea.

Is it not deplorable that the only way in which these grievances can be discovered and ventilated is through Members of Parliament? Ought not the Minister to tell us the facts?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that tea is being sold by the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes to troops fighting in Korea at a price of 6s. 2d. per pound; and what steps he is taking to secure that Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes prices are kept reasonably low.

The retail prices for tea sold by N.A.A.F.I. in Korea are 5s. 9d. and 6s. 2d. a pound. The prices are subject to a 10 per cent. discount and compare favourably with the prices charged' by N.A.A.F.I. and local civilian shops in Hong Kong. The prices charged by N.A.A.F.I. are fixed by the Board of Management who, in spite of rapidly rising costs, are making every effort to keep prices as low as possible.

Will the Minister bear in mind that N.A.A.F.I. have monopoly rights and make very large profits out of those rights? Will he see that troops in forward areas can get their supplies from N.A.A.F.I. at a reasonable price and at a short distance from where they are fighting?

Yes, but I should deprecate any suggestion that N.A.A.F.I. is not providing a good service there. After all, if N.A.A.F.I. make profits, those profits are all used for Army or public purposes.

In view of the many complaints, whether justified or not, from troops in Korea about comfort and welfare, will the Minister give serious consideration—I do not ask for an answer now—to sending out an impartial committee or commission of inquiry? No doubt there is great dissatisfaction.

Can my right hon. Friend say why troops in Korea have to buy tea? Is not an adequate supply of tea provided by the authorities?

Certainly; but they can buy extra tea from the N.A.A.F.I. if they wish to do so.

Is it not time that a responsible Minister from the Front Bench went to Korea and had a look at these things himself?

Home Guard

34.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will now issue a definite announcement so that those who will be in the Home Guard if an emergency arises may know who will be required, and what will be required of them.

Home Commands have not yet prepared their detailed plans for the raising of a Home Guard in an emergency. In general, the rôle of the Home Guard will be to supplement, where possible in the neighbourhood of their homes, the defences provided by the Regular and Reserve Forces and to relieve these Forces of some of their tasks in order to release them for training and operations.

Can the Minister say how soon these regulations will be issued, or how soon they will be made so that they can be issued?

Instructions will be going out to Home Commands very shortly, and then the commands will have to make their detailed plans.

Will my right hon. Friend reiterate that by taking an active part in the Civil Defence organisation in the meantime, potential recruits to the Home Guard will make themselves more useful to the Home Guard if and when they are required later on?

Z Reservists (Outsize Battle Dress)

35.

asked the Secretary of State for War what plans he has for fitting out personnel requiring outsize battle dresses during the 15 days' Z training.

Recalled Z Reservists will receive with their warning notices size rolls for completion and return. These should be received in time to enable steps to be taken to provide outsize battle dress.

Does the Minister appreciate that it takes approximately three months, even during a war, to get an outsize battle dress for people like myself?

I have a great fellow feeling for the hon. and gallant Gentleman, in this respect at any rate.

Is the Minister aware that after 15 days the outsize battle dress may not fit?

Electoral Registration

36.

asked the Secretary of State for War what steps he is taking to ensure that all ranks in Malaya are conversant with the regulations concerning Service voting at election time.

All those eligible are given an opportunity annually to complete Armed Forces declaration cards if they have not previously done so. Action is taken during the months of August and September and a final check is made shortly before the qualifying dates for the next register. In addition, a notice board information leaflet is posted in all units at the appropriate time, acquainting all ranks with the procedure.

Is the Secretary of State for War aware that, despite these regulations and under the pressure of war, there are commanding officers who do not realise their responsibilities in this matter? Therefore, would he remind commanding officers in all theatres of war outside the United Kingdom of their responsibilities in this respect?

Is the Minister aware that many men have gone overseas since August and September, and will he ensure that the recent arrivals also get a proxy vote?

Yes, Sir; but, of course, they cannot be put on a register until a new one is made.

Fatigues

37.

asked the Secretary of State for War what administrative machinery exists in his Department to discourage the issuing to other ranks of orders involving fatigues of a tedious character and which are designed to produce superficial smartness.

It is general policy that fatigues should be reduced to an absolute minimum in order that the greatest possible time can be devoted to training. If my hon. Friend would let me have details of any cases he has in mind, I will look into them.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that extremely satisfactory answer, and while bearing in mind the importance of keeping the right perspective about this sort of thing, may I ask him whether he realises that the assigning of these tedious, time-wasting fatigue orders has a very adverse effect on morale? Is he further aware of the colloquialism in use in the Services for fatigues of this sort?

As far as personal smartness is concerned, I am sure my hon. Friend would agree that is a very important factor in morale, but it is most important that no fatigue which is time wasting, and seems so to the men, is instituted, because that, I think, is destructive of morale.

in view of the Question, would the right hon. Gentleman ask his hon. Friend whether, when he was selected for the guard of honour in Berlin he was so selected for his smartness or for his superficial smartness?

As I have a suspicion that that remark was addressed to myself, may I say that there is no foundation in that story? I was not present on that occasion.

Will the Minister ensure that none of the men to be called up will be subjected to any of these tedious duties?

Will the Minister make sure that among the fatigues discouraged he will not include the shovelling away of snow?

Infantry Record Offices

38.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the present need for the expansion of the Army, he will reconsider his decision to reduce the number of Infantry Record Offices and to move the Infantry and General Service Corps Records Office from York to Preston.

The grouping of Infantry Record Offices will not adversely affect the capacity for expansion of the Infantry Brigade Groups. The move of the Infantry and General Service Corps Records Office from York is particularly desirable since this office at present occupies accommodation on a requisitioned airfield far below the standard required, and no security of tenure can be guaranteed.

Arising out of that reply, is the Minister aware that the Old Record House is still available in York, although occupied by another branch of his Department, and that these men are busily engaged at the present moment in the call-up of the Z Reservists, and will he therefore delay the operation of this decision during this period?

The centralisation of these offices is important. It is part of the measures we are always trying to take to keep the tail down in proportion to the teeth arms, and we must be able to centralise these offices. As a matter of fact, this move is not imminent.

Is the Minister moving this office solely because there is inadequate accommodation in York at the moment, and is that not rather a short-term consideration in a long-term programme?

No, Sir, it is part of a general scheme of centralisation under which a number of offices are involved.

Surely, it would be much better that Lancashire should come to Yorkshire than that Yorkshire should come to Lancashire.

Anti-Aircraft Command

39.

asked the Secretary of State for War why units of Anti-Aircraft Command have been excluded from the active Army.

Units of Anti-Aircraft Command have not been excluded from the active Army. The term Anti-Aircraft Command embraces both active and Reserve Army units. Both types of units are due to receive Reservists in 1951.

Is the Minister aware that the Prime Minister's statement gave an indication that there was differentiation between units of the active Army and Ack-Ack Command and that such differentiation is most unfortunate, particularly in view of the way members of Ack-Ack Command were treated after the last war?

I could not agree with a reading of the Prime Minister's statement in that sense, but I am glad to make the matter perfectly clear in this Question and answer.

Prisoners, Korea

40.

asked the Secretary of State for War when he intends taking steps for an exchange of prisoners in Korea.

This is a matter which involves the Unified Command. My hon. Friend's suggestion will be borne in mind, but I can hold out little hope that such an exchange will be possible in present circumstances.

Is the Minister aware that we have now 136,000 prisoners in our hands? Would it not be to our benefit and would it not ensure humane treatment of our own prisoners to initiate such a scheme?

My hon. Friend will remember the statement I made to the House on 30th January, showing the very great efforts we made in trying to get in touch with the North Korean authorities about the conditions of prisoners. Even that has not been possible up to the present time.

Can the Minister say through what channel His Majesty's Government communicated with the North Korean authorities about prisoners of war and whether any steps are being taken so far to secure facilities for a protecting Power to inspect prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention?

These are precisely the matters dealt with in my statement of 30th January. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will look at it.

When the right hon. Gentleman says that this matter is one for the Unified Command, does it mean that this country can take no steps on its own initiative?

Not necessarily in everything, but in a matter of the exchanging of prisoners I certainly think the Unified Command would have to be consulted.

Automatic Weapons

42.

asked the Secretary of State for War if, in the light of experience in the Korean war, steps are being taken to improve the types of automatic weapons issued to our troops.

The automatic weapons which are being used in Korea are, for the most part, of the same basic types as those which served us well in the last war. Several types of more recent design, however, which offer promise of improved performance, are under trial.

Is the Minister satisfied that the weapons supplied to our troops are fully equal to those supplied to other people fighting there?

I do not think we have any reason to be ashamed of our small arms. They are very effective weapons.

Registrar-General's Department

45.

asked the Prime Minister which Minister is responsible to Parliament for the administration of the Department of the Registrar-General and the functions thereof.

In the recent redistribution of functions no change has been made in the relationship between the Minister of Health and the Registrar-General, who is a statutory officer discharging responsibilities entrusted to him directly by Parliament under various Acts.

Will the Prime Minister consider whether it might be desirable to associate this officer with the Ministry of National Insurance at the present time?

I do not think there is any reason for a change. As I pointed out, most of the duties of the Registrar-General are laid down by Statute.

Committee Of Imperial Defence

46.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider reconstituting the Committee of Imperial Defence.

No, Sir. There have been important changes in the constitutional relations between the various parts of the Commonwealth since the Committee of Imperial Defence was established in 1904; and in the conditions of today other methods of Commonwealth consultation and co-operation in defence are more effective and appropriate.

Does not the Prime Minister agree that when we are engaged in this very important re-armament programme, it might be worth while considering reconstituting something like the Committee of Imperial Defence, particularly having in mind that he would have on it leaders of the Opposition, to whom some confidential information about the programme might be of service?

There was an occasion, or a period, in which there was a Leader of the Opposition on it, but if the hon. Gentleman will study the composition of the Committee of Imperial Defence, he will see that it is not really very suited to present conditions, especially from the point of view of Imperial co-operation.

The Prime Minister will find, if he looks at the record, that Mr. Balfour, at the time he served with the Liberal Government on the Committee of Imperial Defence, was not Leader of the Opposition.

That is quite right. I think he was only a Member of the Opposition. He was not Leader.

Festival Of Britain

47.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he will send personal invitations to leaders of other nations, including the Dominion Premiers, President Truman, the President of the Republic of France and Premier Stalin, to attend the Festival of Britain.

The Government recognise that had the international situation been more settled the nation would no doubt have wished to welcome leaders of other nations here on the occasion of the Festival of Britain. The House will recognise, however, that as arrangements appropriate to such important visits have to be made long in advance, it is really not practicable, having regard to the heavy responsibilities resting on the statesmen mentioned, to attempt such arrangements in the present unsettled conditions, much as we would like to.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that these invitations would be inclined to make everybody a little more sociable?

Central Office Of Information (Lectures)

48.

asked the Lord President of the Council to what extent, and by whom, Central Office of Information officials are briefed before giving lectures or writing reports; and to what extent these reflect Government policy.

I am not sure what the hon. Member has in mind, as the Central Office is an agency, and instructed in all its work by the Ministerial Departments, which take responsibility for any questions of policy. I should perhaps add, however, that no lectures are given by officials of the Central Office, and that any work they may do in preparing reports is confined to their editorial and technical aspects.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that in a report on the cost of living, for the benefit of a London chamber of commerce, an official of the Central Office of Information has stated that "rising prices are a good thing because they provide an incentive to business" and that a man "will buy more today if he knows prices are going up tomorrow"? Will the right hon. Gentleman say how he can justify the expenditure of public money on trash of this description and how he can justify the salary of a man who is capable of writing it?

If I may say so, I think it would have been more fair on the part of the hon. Member if he had supplied that information in advance, in which case I would have looked into it; but I cannot be expected to answer on the spur of the moment these detective stories. If he would let me have particulars, I will look into the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this was published on 25th January in the "Evening Standard"?

National Finance

Pre-War Motor Cars (Taxation)

50.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer in what year he estimates that pre-war cars will cease by virtue of being obsolete to provide revenue from Road Fund licences.

I do not know anything about the Chancellor's guess, but does he not agree that it would be a good thing to keep these cars in use by bringing in a flat rate of tax this year?

Troops, Far East (Gift Parcels)

53.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will exempt from Customs Duty and Purchase Tax the contents of gift parcels sent by men on active service in Korea and Malaya to their relatives in this country.

70.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will restore the war-time Forces' duty free parcels concession to all serving personnel abroad, and especially to those serving in the Far Eastern zone.

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr. Driberg) on 7th December last.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that small gift parcels of a value not exceeding 20s. are attracting as much Purchase Tax and Customs Duty as 17s. or 18s.? In view of the fact that duty-free concessions were made in the last war, could not the same generosity be shown in respect of gifts of a limited value now?