asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty, with reference to the last three types of aircraft accepted by his Department, what time has elapsed between the issue of first staff requirements and the equipping of the first Fleet Air Arm squadron.

Three and a half, two and three years approximately. These aircraft were adaptations or developments of aircraft already in existence and the times given are below the average for new types.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the information I was seeking was of completely new types? The delay between the Admiralty and the Ministry of Supply is resulting in aircraft in almost every case being obsolescent before they are in the air, and if the hon. Gentleman is not aware of it will he recall such aircraft as the Skua, the Roc, the Fulmar, the Albacore and the Barracuda?

I must answer the Question that is put on the Order Paper. The Question asked for

"the last three types of aircraft accepted by his Department."

That is the Question I answered.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many cruisers are now in commission.

I would refer the hon. Member to my noble Friend's Statement Explanatory of the Navy Estimates, 1951–52.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that every time this Question is asked we have fewer cruisers in commission than before, and that with 30 cruisers sold or scrapped, this constitutes re-armament in reverse?

I would remind the hon. Gentleman that enemy fleets of cruisers have disappeared off the seas. The Navy staff requirements are fully met.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that commerce raiders have not disappeared off the seas? Is it not a fact that we now have less than half the number of cruisers we had in 1939 and less than a quarter we had in 1914? Will the hon. Gentleman see that the cruisers which are half finished are completed quickly?

I must remind the hon. Gentleman that both the German and Japanese fleets have disappeared.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what steps are being taken to accumulate stocks of weapons and materials for the defensive armament of merchant ships in case of need.

Dual purpose weapons for defensively arming the Merchant Fleet in an emergency have been accumulated and suitably distributed throughout the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that we have adequate stocks to meet an emergency?

Yes, I am satisfied about that; and as we get more guns of better quality for the Fleet it will be possible to improve the standard of defensive equipment for merchant ships.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the estimated saving in labour and cost resulting from the removal of the Naval Store Department from Sheerness to His Majesty's Dockyard, Chatham.

The net saving in labour to date is 21 non-industrials and 50 industrials, with a total annual pay bill of about £21,000. There has also been saving by the release of storehouses and stocks of stores at Sheerness. which cannot be easily estimated.

Is my hon. Friend prepared to state that there has been no loss of efficiency in consequence of this change?

It is not a question of loss of efficiency. The change is not yet complete, but we hope that there will be more efficiency when the removal to Chatham is completed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is aware of the hardship and disappointment caused to men now due for release after long service in the Royal Navy by the notification that they have to serve another 18 months, and that this delay will diminish the prospect of suitable civilian employment for many of these men, now 30 years of age; how many men in all are affected; and if he will reexamine the possibility of lessening this delay by a more economical use of existing manpower or by recalling a larger number of Royal Fleet reservists.

I regret the disappointment caused to men due for release by the decision to retain them for a further period. So far 5,250 men are affected, and I am glad to say that the decision has been generally understood and accepted. In an attempt to get the best use of existing manpower, training schedules will be overhauled with a view to speeding them up. As far as it is within the power of His Majesty's Government, posts will be kept open for detained men until they are released. It would not make the general position better to alter the balance between recalled reservists and retained men.

When my hon. Friend says that so far as possible posts will be kept open for these men, does he mean that they may be covered by the new legislation dealing with reinstatement in civil employment?

No, Sir. I was not thinking of that. Many of the men who are retained have no jobs to go back to. These are new posts, and I am thinking of vacancies, for example, in the Fire Service, the Civil Service, the Police Force and local government where we can bring some influence to bear to ensure that posts are kept open.

While I have the deepest sympathy with these men who are retained, may I ask if the hon. Gentleman agrees that this is a complete indictment of his Government's policy over the last few years in failing to take steps to prevent experienced men from leaving the Service, in spite of many warnings from this side of the House?

I am not sure that an inquest will do hon. Members opposite much good. I should have thought that part of the reason for this delay was the suspension of regular recruitment during the war years. It is a consequence of that that there are now experienced men with 10 years' service who are wanted for these jobs.

In his original answer the Parliamentary Secretary said that he proposed to speed up training courses. Will he assure the House that there will be no sacrifice of quality to obtain numbers, as this would be a most serious price to pay?

Yes, we must try to speed up training by breaking down courses into sub-specialisation and by trying to ensure that those who use equipment also maintain it.

Will the hon. Gentleman examine far more closely all the people who have been called up? The people who are hit by far the hardest are those who, after completing a long term of service, are now being called up for a long time and not for 15 days?

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that large numbers of men have failed to re-engage? Is that not due to the policy adopted by the Government?

There have been substantial inducements to men to re-engage and come back into the Service, and that is having its effect. As for the other suggestion, it is not the case that large numbers of men have gone out of the Navy. Most of the petty officers we now have are reaching the end of their term of service this year or next year.

When I mentioned the Reinstatement in Civil Employment Bill I was, of course, meaning those probably very few cases where the men have jobs waiting for them. Could my hon. Friend look into that?

Certainly.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty on what date was the name of the Fleet Air Arm last changed; and by what official designation is it now known.

Use of the term "Fleet Air Arm" was discontinued over four years ago, as flying is an integral part of the activities of the Royal Navy. From time to time, when it is convenient to employ a generic noun, the term "Naval Aviation" is used.

If the use of the term "Fleet Air Arm" was discontinued four years ago, why is it that the First Lord of the Admiralty used it in another place a few weeks ago? Secondly, what was the reason for changing from "Fleet Air Arm" to "Air Branch of the Royal Navy," from "Air Branch of the Royal Navy" to "Naval Air Arm," and from ''Naval Air Arm" to "Naval Aviation"? Would the hon. Gentleman not bring some sense into this and call it by the name by which everyone knows it?

"Fleet Air Arm," during years between the wars, meant the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Air Force. Now there has been an attempt to introduce a term which will not confuse people and which, at the same time, will not seem to show that aviation is something separate from the activities of the Navy as a whole.

If "Naval Aviation" is a valid term, is it not automatically correct that the alternative type of service in the Navy could be equally and as efficiently known as "Naval Seafaring"?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what progress has now been made towards an increase in salary and improved conditions for pensioner civilian operating room assistants employed in the Royal naval hospitals; and if he will make a statement.

The review of the pay and conditions of this small group of staff has received much attention, but progress has, unfortunately, been slow because of the difficulty of establishing standards of comparison in other fields. We are making every endeavour to bring the matter to a conclusion.

Is it not a fact that only 11 men are concerned, that they are all very highly qualified men with the State registration—or if they have not got it they are asking for it at present—and that negotiations have been going on for four years?

I do not think negotiations have been going on for four years. I agree that the number is small, but that is all the more essential that greater consideration should be given to each application.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what bounty will be paid to officers of the Emergency List, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, and the Royal Naval Volunteer (Supplementary) Reserve, who are now being called up for 18 months' service.

This matter is under consideration.

Could the Minister say when a decision will be reached?

No, Sir.

In view of the fact that the numbers required are not very large, is it not desirable that the Royal Naval Volunteers should, in fact, be volunteers in this matter? Would it not be better if an inducement were given to that end so that the hon. Gentleman would get the numbers he requires without the necessity of an actual call-up?

The principle is still to be determined, and the other Services, particularly the R.A.F., are concerned in this matter.

Would the Minister give an assurance that if, in fact, a bounty is granted, those who volunteer before its announcement will get it?

I have not said anything which would lead the hon. and gallant Gentleman to believe that a bounty will be granted.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many major changes have been made to the specification for the GR17/44 aircraft since the first staff requirement was issued; and on what date this requirement was issued.

Two, Sir. The requirement was issued in December, 1945.

Could the hon. Member assure me that there has been, and there is now, no intention of altering the seating capacity of this aircraft from two to three, which will radically alter it?

That is one of the two major alterations that has been effected. The number of seats has already been altered from two to three.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what the minimum rate of pay is at the Royal Naval explosives factory at Holton Heath.

The minimum rate of pay for an adult workman at Royal Naval Cordite Factory, Holton Heath, is 103s. a week.

Is the Minister aware that the information I have is that the minimum wage is 90s.?

No. Probably the hon. Member was told before the recent increases were granted.

Are not these rates very low for this valuable and dangerous work? Are they not supplemented by benefits in kind or allowances?

The rates are negotiated in the same way as all other rates for Admiralty employees, and compare favourably with outside interests.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what members of the staff of the Royal Naval explosives factory at Holton Heath are in receipt of danger money.

No member of the staff of the Royal Naval Cordite Factory, Holton Heath, is in receipt of danger money.

Then why is it necessary to surround many of the buildings with large mounds of earth?

It is necessary to surround them to save them from damage in the event of an explosion taking place.

If there is danger of an explosion should not the men working in the mound be in receipt of danger money?

In any cordite or ammunition factory there is a risk of danger. On the question of pay, the best way of dealing with these applications for better wages and conditions is through the men's trade unions.

If danger money were offered would it not be much more difficult to get people to work in these places? Is it not also the case that these places are not nearly as dangerous as walking on a London street?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what ships of the Reserve Fleet will be brought forward to active service during 1951.

It is planned to bring forward 60 ships from reserve for service with the active Fleet in 1951: two destroyers: two frigates; three submarines; eight ocean and 22 other minesweepers; two fast minelayers and 21 smaller craft. In addition, one light fleet carrier, one destroyer, one landing ship (headquarters) and three A/S frigates will be brought forward for trials and training.

Would it not be better to complete some of the new ships which have been uncompleted for so long rather than bring old ships back?

That does not arise out of this Question.

asked the Postmaster-General how many ex-employees of Cable and Wireless, Limited, are now receiving in his service lower total remuneration than that received when the service was under private enterprise.

Up to 1947, members of Cable and Wireless, Limited, received a variable bonus, related to the company's profits, which was not reckoned for pension or for overtime rates. This bonus was consolidated with pay from 1st January, 1947, under an agreement negotiated between the company and the staff associations concerned. None of the company's staff transferred to the Post Office on 1st April, 1950, receives less than his normal pay at the time of transfer. Extra earnings for Sunday duty and overtime are, of course, largely dependent on day-to-day conditions.

Is that answer designed to conceal the fact that the employees do not now receive as much remuneration under State ownership as they did when they were employed by Cable and Wireless?

No, Sir, the answer is designed to give the facts and the consequences of an agreement which was freely negotiated between both sides.

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that taking into account the bonus, which is an essential part of their earnings, the men are receiving today from his Department what they previously received from Cable and Wireless?

No, Sir, what I am saying is that some may receive more and some may receive less, but we are paying what is provided for under a freely negotiated agreement.

Now that the right hon. Gentleman has answered the Question, contrasting wages under private enterprise and in a nationalised industry, does he agree that Cable and Wireless is now a nationalised industry?

That is an entirely different matter. Cable and Wireless was divided into several parts and an independent company has been formed with a limited charter. It cannot be described as a nationalised undertaking.

Was not an undertaking given at the time of the takeover that none of the employees would be worse off under the new scheme? Does not the Postmaster-General's answer imply that that undertaking has not been carried out?

If that undertaking has not been carried out, we should have heard from the trade union associations before now. So far, we have had no representations.

asked the Postmaster- General in how many instances the rates paid by his Department to State and charter air lines are up to the agreed inter national standard; and in how many he is paying below the agreed international standard.

There is no agreed international standard governing the rates to be paid by postal administrations to their national air operators. The rates paid to British air carriers for the conveyance of mails are negotiated on a commercial basis.

May I take it that the right hon. Gentleman regards as inaccurate and unreasonable the statement made in the report of B.O.A.C. on this matter?

I have given the facts.

asked the Post master-General whether he will amend Post Office regulations to permit the enclosure of crossed cheques with in voices or statements sent as printed papers.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Accrington (Mr. H. Hynd) on 14th February, 1951.

That was a considerable time ago. Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this would be of considerable assistance in keeping down the overheads of industries and would be of help in controlling the cost of living?

I think that it would be quite unthinkable to do this. It would only increase temptation over a very wide field, and I do not think that it would be in the interests of industry to introduce this sort of innovation.

asked the Postmaster- General why his Savings Department re quires the parents of a child under seven years of age to prove that repayment of the child's certificates is necessary for the child's urgent need but repays, without question, on the child's signature, certificates held by a child of seven years of age, although that signature may be directed by the parents.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the hon. and learned Member for Richmond (Sir G. Harvie-Watt) on 6th March.

As a child of seven is bound to sign any document which his father or mother puts before him, what is the point of this rule, which causes a great deal of unnecessary work?

This is a hundred years' old law. The Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday gave an undertaking to review this whole question and to see what could be done to put it right. I agree that it is very anomalous.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that football permutation tickets are being sold on behalf of a political party by postmen in uniform; whether this is being done by his authority; and if he will put a stop to this practice immediately.

One postman is known to have been selling such tickets. The practice is contrary to Post Office rules and was stopped as soon as it came to light.

Is the Minister aware that when the firm to which the staff is attached moved its address some miles away, the matter was taken up, and the supply of tickets was taken over by the new postman concerned? Is not that an abuse of His Majesty's postal service?

Answer.

On a point of order. May we ask the Minister to give an answer?

The hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. W. R. A. Hudson), gave a lot of information but he did not ask a question. He informed the Postmaster-General of what had happened.

asked the Postmaster-General when the vacancy of chairman on the Imperial Telecommunications Board will be filled.

Under the Commonwealth Telegraphs Agreement, the chairman of the Board is to be appointed jointly by the partner Governments, who have the matter under consideration.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this vacancy has existed now for four months? In view of the very serious problems confronting the Board, will he treat the matter as one of urgency?

It is a matter of urgency. The hon. Gentleman is wrong in his time factor. We have not been idle for four months, and we are pressing the Commonwealth Governments to come to a decision on this matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the chairmanship was vacated on the 27th November, and I make that four months ago?

asked the Postmaster-General if, before announcing the terms of reference for the Trade Union Recognition Policy Committee, he consulted the representatives of the Civil Service unions; and with what result.

Yes, Sir; a satisfactory understanding was reached.

May I now take it that there is no substance in the allegations that these unions were not consulted?

The Civil Service unions who were concerned in this were consulted.

asked the Postmaster-General why his Department is using the Polish vessel s.s. "Batory" for the conveyance of export parcels to North America, in view of the delays which occur in New York while the vessel's cargo is being examined.

I understand from the U.S. Post Office that mails sent from this country to the United States by the motor vessel "Batory" are subject to delay of not more than four hours on average. I am. however, looking into the specific case about which the hon. Member has written to me, and I will write to him as soon as possible.

Is that not somewhat astonishing in view of the notorious publicity which this vessel has received and the well-known fact that her cargo is suspect and is gone through with a fine tooth-comb every time the ship goes into New York; and does not the Minister acknowledge that I have given him evidence in writing on this subject?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would allow me to examine the evidence first, and have the observations of the United States Post Office on it.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has taken any further action to improve broadcast reception in north Devonshire.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has any statement to make about the prospect of improved reception of British Broadcasting Corporation's programmes in north Devonshire and Cornwall.

The B.B.C. is examining proposals for improving reception in this and other areas, and I am awaiting their conclusions.

In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has admitted that he instructed the B.B.C. to sacrifice the quality of sound reception generally to provide television in the north of England, will he either improve the quality of sound reception or reduce the cost of wireless licences?

This is not a matter under my control. The B.B.C. are proceeding under their Charter to do with their capital as they are entitled to do. They inform me that they are seeking to improve the service in the area which the hon. Gentleman represents, and I am giving that information to the House.

Is the Minister aware that a constituent of mine who recently moved into Cornwall from Devon described the reception of wireless in Cornwall as "positively shocking." As we all have to pay full licence fees, does he not agree that the improvement in the efficiency of reception should have first priority in the allocation of capital expenditure?

The B.B.C. is the authority in this matter. I have made representations to the B.B.C. and have therefore, discharged my duty to the House.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that reception throughout Cornwall is not altogether "perfectly shocking," although it is capable of improvement, and will he do what he can in this matter?

Are the B.B.C. trying to improve reception in Northern Ireland, and if not, why not?

I have yet to learn that Northern Ireland is part of Devonshire.

I was putting a supplementary question in relation to the answer which the Postmaster-General gave, Sir.

These Questions refer only to Devonshire and Cornwall and not to Northern Ireland.

On a point of order. I wish to correct the statement made by the Minister.

We cannot have every Devonshire Member speaking on Devonshire Questions; although sometimes we have every Scotsman upon Scottish Questions. I have to draw the line somewhere. We will go on to the next Question.

Further to that point of order. I wish to say, Sir, that the Postmaster-General referred to the hon. Gentleman the Member for Torrington (Mr. Lambert) as the hon. Member for North Devon, which he is not.

That is not a point of order for me to deal with.

On a point of order. May I say that in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

That does not matter to me in the least.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware of the poor reception of British Broadcasting Corporation programmes, particularly the West Regional Service, in the South-Western counties; and whether he will take steps to have the transmission in this area improved.

The B.B.C. are examining proposals for improving reception in certain parts of the South-Western counties, and I am awaiting their conclusions.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is a lot of dissatisfaction about this, and that the transmission that comes through best is, unfortunately, in a language which, whatever its great merits, is completely unintelligible to me and to my constituents, and is, therefore, of only limited interest?

I am not attempting to force a knowledge of Welsh on to the Western counties. I admit that reception is not what it ought to be, and the hon. Gentleman will no doubt have seen, in the Beveridge Report, several proposals for improving the position. The B.B.C. are actively considering what they can do to improve things in the West Country.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make representations to the B.B.C, and bear in mind that if it is a question of choosing between improved radio reception and television the majority of people would prefer improved radio reception?

Will the Postmaster-General give us an assurance that his inquiries will also cover West Somerset, which is equally affected; and. owing to the fact that many of our constituents do not speak Welsh, will he consider the possibility of reducing the cost of the licence of those of us who sometimes get no programme at all?

These are not my inquiries. Reception is the responsibility of the B.B.C.

Then why is the right hon. Gentleman answering?

I am answering because it is laid down in the Charter that I shall answer for the B.B.C, and I am conveying to the House what they are doing.

Is it not a fact that the Postmaster-General himself, together with other technicians, visited North Devon last summer to find out what was wrong with broadcasting; and can he tell the House how much that cost and whether there has been any result?

As the first part of the supplementary question is wrong the rest obviously does not arise.

asked the Postmaster-General what were the circumstances which led to the termination of employment and of the occupation of his present dwelling-place, with one month's notice, of Mr. C. B. Payne, caretaker operator of the telephone exchange at Earlswood, Warwickshire, after 24 years' service for his Department, culminating in a recent period of illness, and when there is no alternative accommodation and no pension forthcoming.

The Post Office is under legal obligation to give vacant possession on 25th March. 1951. An automatic exchange is being provided at Earlswood. Mr. Payne has been considered for another caretaker operator post but, unfortunately, he is unable to take on such work. I very much regret that circumstances beyond my control prevent me from allowing Mr. Payne to continue his occupation of the premises. He has given 24 years' service as caretaker operator and is eligible for a gratuity on retirement.

Is the Minister not aware that all these things were known a long time ago, and does he think that this sort of treatment is conducive to getting new recruits into his Department? In view of the disreputable way in which Mr. Payne has been treated, will the Minister personally try to find him alternative accommodation?

If hon. Gentlemen opposite would induce the owner of this propety to relieve us of our legal obligation to get out, we would see what we could do.

It has nothing to do with legal obligation; it is the obligation of the right hon. Gentleman.

Will my right hon. Friend use his influence with the local authorities where such people live to have their names placed on the housing lists, so that they may have some protection when they are called upon to leave these tied cottages?

This employee has had very long notice. He knew that he had to clear out. He knew that his occupation of the premises was tied up with the lease, and that as the lease was coming to an end he had to get out.

asked the Postmaster-General how many public telephone kiosks have been provided for and will be erected in the current financial year, and of that number how many are in rural areas; and if he will give the number to be provided in the next financial year.

About 3,000 were provided, of which 1,000 were in rural areas. The programme for the next financial year is not settled, but it is hoped to provide not less than in the present year.

Does that answer not prove that the policy the Postmaster-General announced last year is not being carried out in the rural areas? The towns are being favoured because they are easier to deal with than the country districts, which are being neglected.

No, Sir. I announced the policy of extending the rural telephone kiosk programme; we have extended it and are maintaining that extension. Compared with pre-war the position is now much better.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the large profit made by the Post Office, he will abolish the 15 per cent. surcharge on quarterly rental fees for telephones.

Greatly increasing costs rule out any possibility of reducing telephone rentals.

As the Post Office profits on this none too satisfactory monopoly system for last year amounted to some £9 million, does the right hon. Gentleman not consider that at least a part of this might be devoted to the benefit of the subscribers, and that he would be fully justified in reducing his surcharge?

Things have changed very substantially from what they were last year.

Is it not the case that last year the Chancellor of the Exchequer reported to us in his Financial Statement that there was a cash loss on the Post Office of nearly £10 million?

I believe there was a cash deficit.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if air-crew who voluntarily join the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve may retain their rank, as is the case when air-crew reserves are called up.

Men with former R.A.F. service who join the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve are given substantive rank equivalent to the rank held at the time of release. In some cases, however, officers are given lower substantive rank in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve than the temporary or war substantive ranks they held under exceptional war-time promotion rules.

Does this mean that the men who are being called up from the G Reserve are being treated better by getting the highest rank they had?

No, Sir. In most cases the people in the Volunteer Reserve have the same rank as they had when they left the Forces. In some cases, where they were given exceptional promotion for exceptional war-time reasons, they get a lower rank when called up.

The Under-Secretary has merely repeated his original answer and not answered my supplementary question. I asked him whether he will assimilate the conditions for volunteers to those which apply to the G reservists?

No, Sir. G reservists are specially selected men who are called up to fill special posts for only 15 days. They will hold the rank those posts carry for 15 days, but that has no relation whatever to the rank they would hold if they were called up on full mobilisation. The cases are quite different.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the squadrons of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force are still on a one flight basis.

Yes, Sir.

In that case, how does the Under-Secretary justify the assertion of his right hon. and learned Friend on 7th February, when he said:

"It is not the case that the Auxiliary Air Force squadrons are at half strength."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th February, 1951; Vol. 483, c. 1715.]

The Royal Auxiliary squadrons, in pre-war days, had one training flight and one operational flight, and that is what they have now. This question was fully discussed in debate yesterday.

Might it not be more straightforward if these units were now renamed "flights" instead of "squadrons"?

asked the Secretary of State for Air what considerations have led him to abandon the bombing of Heligoland for target practice.

Heligoland, which had been made uninhabitable by war-time bombing and subsequent demolitions, was first used for bombing practice in 1946. It was the most convenient range available for full-scale practice by Bomber Command, and it was decided, because reconstruction could not in any case be started for some time, that the return of the Heligolanders to the island must be deferred.

It was realised, however, that such a situation could not continue indefinitely, and it has now been decided to accede to a request of the German Federal Government made on 12th January this year that the previous residents be allowed to return as soon as possible. Accordingly, the use of the island for bombing will be given up when alternative facilities have been secured, and in any case not later than March, 1952.

Would it not have been better if the decision to abandon Heligoland as a bombing range had been made some time ago, and the Government had not waited until it appeared that they abandoned it only under pressure of German public opinion?

I do not agree at all. The fact is that the German Federal Government are now co-operating in helping to find us alternative sites.

Is it not the case that the German Federal Government have already made proposals for alternative sites, and that this abandonment of Heligoland as a target will take place very much before 1952?

Is it not a fact that the Under-Secretary has been moved by the petition of the 2,000 Heligolanders which I forwarded to him with a view to letting them get back to their native island as soon as possible?

I am sure that we are all always moved by representations made by the hon. Gentleman.

Can the hon. Gentleman say to which people he refers as "the previous residents"? Are they the prewar 1939 residents or the squatters?

The squatters are not Heligolanders.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what will be the cost in dollars of replacing with American air craft those manufactured in Britain and sold to foreign countries during the last four years.

None of the aircraft which we have asked the United States to supply for the R.A.F. under the Mutual Defence Assistance Programme is required to replace British types of aircraft which have been exported to foreign countries. The question of cost does not therefore arise.

Is it not a fact that, whatever the Under-Secretary may now say, we shall have to be given, lent or sold American fighter aircraft equivalent to the number the Government sold to foreign countries before we can really be considered to be increasing our Air Force, which will involve either America or ourselves in a totally unwarranted cost?

There is no relation whatever between the number of aircraft we hope to get from the United States and any number which have been sold to foreign countries. Nor, even if we did replace with later types some of the aircraft already in service, is there any connection between the fighter aircraft we may get from the United States and those we sold two or three years ago.

Does the hon. Gentleman mean to say that if those aircraft had remained in this country his Department would have had no use for them at all?

asked the Secretary of State for Air if those men and women who have joined the Royal Auxiliary Air Force since the war and in so doing have accepted lower rank, will be called-up in any G, or other class service, in the rank held during their former Royal Air Force service.

Man and women who are members of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force will not be called up for Class G. They will carry out training in their Royal Auxiliary Air Force units in the ranks they hold in those units.

Since many auxiliaries will be losing financially during their three months' service, compared with what they receive in their civil employment, can the Minister see any way of removing the apparent unfairness mentioned in the Question? Is it not a fact that those who have volunteered since the war to serve in the Auxiliary Air Force will be losing compared with those who have been conscripted for service under the new arrangements?

We hope to help them by a bounty.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many civilian hourly rated mechanics are employed at No. 8 Maintenance Unit, Royal Air Force, Little Rissington, Gloucester; how many of these are registered dilutees; and how many were formerly so registered who are now qualified as crafts men.

The number of metal working craftsmen employed on the repair and modification of aircraft at No. 8 Maintenance Unit, Little Rissington, is 140, of whom 50 are registered dilutees. The number of craftsmen recognised as fully skilled who were formerly registered as dilutees is four.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether he will make a statement with regard to the proposal that a site at Boldon, County Durham, should be earmarked for a civil airfield.

My noble Friend is now satisfied that, with the development of civil aviation, there may well be a need in the future for an international airport to serve the north-east area and that Boldon is the best site for that purpose. Although, for economic reasons, there is no prospect of building this airport in the near future, the site will be safeguarded against any surface development which might prejudice its eventual use as an international airport.

While expressing pleasure at the satisfactory outcome of the representations made to the Minister from both sides of the House in this connection, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that to maintain employment on the north-east coast it is of urgent importance that we should be associated with every modern development? Will he take steps towards that end, so that in future we shall not be put into the position of having applied rather than negotiated?

We will bear that point in mind.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether, in view of the accumulating evidence that seats facing the tail or an aeroplane afford a greater degree of safety to passengers, it is proposed to take any action, other than international recommendations, to introduce this safeguard for the benefit of those flying by British services.

British civil airworthiness requirements, just issued, include a recommendation that, where practicable, passenger seats should face aft. My noble Friend is considering, in the light of recent experience and in consultation with the airline corporations, the need for further action.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether he will take steps to prevent the dumping of pit refuse on the land to be used for future extention of the runways at Prestwick Airport.

Yes, Sir, as soon as an alternative site can be found. Meanwhile, the mining of the coal must continue.

Is the hon. Gentleman seriously telling us that he has no power to stop the dumping of refuse on runways at an airport for which his Ministry is responsible? It will only cost the country further money to remove it later.

I have no information that this refuse is being dumped on runways that we are using. I can tell the hon. and gallant Gentleman that we have no power to prevent dumping on the site which is being used at present for that purpose.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation for how long he proposes to continue to operate the existing Standard Beam Approach installation at Bovingdon; what is the estimated cost of removing it; and what would be the additional annual maintenance charge for keeping it in service.

No date has yet been determined for the withdrawal of Standard Beam Approach from Bovingdon. It will be available there for a period sufficient to enable operators to equip their aircraft with instrument landing system airborne receivers. Its removal would cost less than £20; the estimated annual cost of its maintenance is £800.

In view of the very high cost of installing the alternative system, will he consider trying to keep this old service, which is perfectly useful?

Certainly not. We have been pressed from all sides of the House, and it is an international requirement that this new system should be installed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will make a statement on the decision not to proceed with the Princess Flying Boat for commercial operation.

Owing to the rapid progress which has been made in the development of the Comet it is now thought likely that the Comet will be better adapted for the needs of civil aviation than the larger flying boats, and accordingly it has been decided that British Overseas Airways Corporation shall not introduce these boats into service However, as my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Air said yesterday, the use of the Princess flying boats as military transports is being favourably considered. Meanwhile, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply needs the boats for development and experimental purposes, and many lessons of great value to aeronautical science will be learnt from them.

Are not these three aircraft the latest addition to what is regarded as an impressive collection of white elephants?

These three aircraft will perform very useful service in the interests of the nation.

Is it not a fact that the operation of the flying boats on the African route during the last period of operation by the B.O.A.C. was. in fact, profitable?

That is not quite accurate, and in any case it has nothing to do with the statement mentioned in the Question which we are now considering.

Which Departmental Vote will bear the cost of developing these flying boats?

It depends upon the eventual user.

Does my hon. Friend recall that he has several times indicated that when these boats come into commission they will be based on Southampton? Can he give a further assurance in that respect?

If my hon. Friend is referring to the possible use by the Royal Air Force he should put his question to my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Air.

Does not the statement show that high executives of the B.O.A.C. have very little knowledge of business, since they ought to have made up their minds on this matter two years ago? Will the hon. Gentleman try to instil some knowledge of business methods into them?

There are considerations which apply now which did not apply two years ago.

How is the cost being met up to date?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put that question down.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that it would be tragic to lose the "know-how" of making these big flying boats? Unless the Government give proper encouragement is there not a danger of losing this "know-how"?

We have given very considerable encouragement, but hon. Gentlemen opposite are already talking about the financial cost.

asked the Minister of Defence what plans he has for the further use of Colonial manpower.