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Scotland

Volume 486: debated on Tuesday 17 April 1951

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Burnwood Camp, Carluke

2.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has confirmed the decision to charge full rent for permanent county council houses to the tenant of a hut in the Burnwood Camp, Carluke, Lanarkshire.

The fixing of rents for the huts at Burnwood Camp rests with the county council, who, I understand, had regard primarily to the rents charged for temporary houses in the county.

Does the hon. Gentleman mean that the Department of Health have no discretion and can exercise no influence with the county council in the charging of rents? Does he realise—I am sure he does; he has been there—that the conditions are such in the camp that only one room in each hut can be occupied because the huts are so damp? Is it not a scandal to charge the full rent for the use of one room in an ex-R.A.F. hut?

The position is that local authority rents are not subject to the jurisdiction of my right hon. Friend.

3.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will reverse the decision to classify the Burnwood Camp, Carluke, Lanarkshire, as a temporary housing scheme and condemn the huts as unfit for human habitation.

No, Sir. These huts should continue to provide temporary accommodation for some time for people who cannot yet be given permanent houses. The work originally done at this camp has not, however, proved sufficient and at my suggestion the county council are carrying out certain improvements.

I am given to understand that the classification of these R.A.F. huts as a temporary housing scheme prejudices the allocation of permanent houses to the village of Carluke; that is to say, there is a reduction of what otherwise they would have received of, I am told, nearly 60 houses. Is that not intolerable, and ought not this camp, which is quite unfit for human habitation, to be condemned?

Again, the position is that the decision on how many houses will be allocated to the village of Carluke is one for the county council and not for the Secretary of State.

In that case, why is the hon. Gentleman answering this Question if he is not responsible? These Questions have been passed by the Chair and I am given to understand that the hon. Gentleman's Department have responsibility in both cases. Do I understand the hon. Gentleman now to say that the Department have no discretion in either of these two matters?

With respect, the noble Lord is asking supplementary questions which go beyond the Question on the Order Paper, although they are not unrelated. I repeat that my right hon. Friend is not in a position to instruct the county council of Lanarkshire as to how many houses out of their county allocation they should allot to Carluke.

If the hon. Gentleman can make suggestions to the county council concerning the accommodation provided, surely he can make suggestions as to the rent they can charge.

In any case, what is the use of condemning these huts as unfit for human habitation, since people have to go on living in them because the Government are either unable or unwilling to provide suitable alternative accommodation?

As the answers to these two Questions have been entirely unsatisfactory and unsympathetic, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter at the earliest opportunity.

Local Authority Tenants (Sub-Letting)

4.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland upon what facts he based his decision to encourage local authorities to allow their house tenants to take in lodgers or sub-let; and if he is aware of the confusion which this announcement has caused to local authorities throughout the country.

I am not aware of any confusion in this matter. The position is that I recently took the opportunity of suggesting to local authorities that they might wish to consider modifying any prohibition on lodgers and sub-tenancies at least for particular categories, so far as that can be arranged without creating over-crowding. The need to get the maximum mobility of labour for the defence programme and the provision of accommodation for Festival visitors seem to call for the best possible use being made of our housing resources.

Is it not possible for the hon. Gentleman to answer the Question? Surely he could not have made such a recommendation to the authorities without some figures. How many houses in Scotland does he think, for example, are not already overcrowded? How many could make available facilities for such sub-tenants? Without those figures, surely the hon. Gentleman should not have made such a statement.

The hon. Gentleman says I ought to have given some figures. If the local authorities ask me to give some figures, we shall be able to give them the figures which the local authorities themselves gave to the Housing Advisory Committee. We know the figures they have already themselves provided and have made suggestions as to how better use may be made of local authority houses.

The hon. Gentleman has referred to the offer of the local authorities figures. As I was seeking precisely that information, would he kindly give the House those figures?

Hydro-Electric Scheme, Breadalbane

5.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that Constructional Scheme No. 25—Breadalbane Project—of the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board is likely seriously to affect large sheep stocks in Perthshire; and if he will give an assurance that before confirming this scheme the interests of food production will be fully considered.

Objections to this scheme may be made before 5th May. Thereafter my right hon. Friend must decide, in the light of any objections, of its possible effect on agricultural or other interests, and of the result of any public inquiry which may be held, whether it is in the public interest to confirm it. If it is confirmed Parliament will, of course, have an opportunity of considering it.

Is the hon. Lady aware that a large part of the land affected by this vast scheme which is to cost £15,500,000 is land that has already been rehabilitated under the Hill Farming Act passed by her own Government? Is she further aware that there is grave apprehension that because of the discharge of water from the scheme into the River Earn, serious flooding will take place over this rich agricultural land? Will she see that her right hon. Friend looks into these two points in particular, and has regard to agricultural and food production interests in general?

All these points are being taken into consideration. At the present time technical officers of the Department of Agriculture are carrying out a survey on this very ground. Their report will be in the hands of the Secretary of State before he reaches any decision.

Is the hon. Lady aware that on this occasion this period of 40 days is really too short to enable people to examine this very big scheme carefully, because for the first time, I think I am right in saying, in any of these schemes really rich, first-class agricultural land is affected, as opposed to the important but much less valuable hill land affected in some of the earlier schemes?

It seems to me that the time is a little more than 40 days. It was first decided on 23rd March, and there is until 5th May. I am sure that if there is an objection there is sufficient time to make the objection.

Housing, Cove And Kilgreggan

6.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of applicants on the waiting list for houses in the Burgh of Cove and Kilgreggan.

Would my hon. Friend bear in mind that this is a Tory local authority who were allocated 20 houses by his Department in May, 1948; that building did not start until January, 1950; and that, as far as I understand, no houses have yet been completed? Would he arrange for the Scottish Special Housing Association to go into this local authority area and build houses for the people who are still waiting for them?

Rivers (Prevention Of Pollution)

7.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has considered the joint letter dated 6th April addressed to him by the Association of County Councils, the Scottish Counties of Cities Association and the Convention of Royal Burghs urgently requesting the postponement of the Rivers (Prevention of Pollution) (Scotland) (No. 2) Bill; and what action he proposes to take.

My right hon. Friend met representatives of the three associations this morning, and gave them an assurance that he would consider before the Committee stage of the Bill certain specific points which they made to him.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House whether that statement satisfied the local authorities he met?

Will my hon. Friend also bear in mind that local authorities have had over 50 years to deal with this problem of river pollution in Scotland, and that many of us feel that the sooner action is taken in the matter the better?

Will the Joint Under-Secretary of State disclose to the House, since this question is coming up for debate very soon, the lines of the objection put forward?

We had a very, very useful discussion with the associations' representatives this morning. I do not want to weary the House by enumerating the suggestions that were then put forward, but no doubt my right hon. Friend will take the opportunity, when we have the Second Reading discussion, of explaining to the Committee fully what they were.

Will my hon. Friend tell the House whether he has had any representations from the Association for the Preservation of Rural Scotland about this matter, and will he take those considerations into account? I will send him a copy if he has not had one.

We have had many representations, of course, from different associations who are very anxious to get the Bill through without any unnecessary delay.

Agricultural Production

8.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what increase has taken place in our meat production in Scotland since the commencement of the agricultural expansion programme in June, 1947.

The estimated increase in 1950–51 in the production of beef and veal, mutton and lamb, pigmeat and poultry over that produced in 1946–47 is 33,000 tons, or 22 per cent.

9.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the extent of increase in Scotland in the production of cereals and potatoes; and also the figures of the acreage under cultivation since the commencement of the expansion programme.

The estimated increase in cereals production between 1947, the first year of the expansion programme, and 1950 was 57,000 tons, from a decreased acreage of 68,000 acres. The figure for potatoes was 223,000 tons increase from 17,000 acres less. The total area under cultivation in 1947 and 1950 respectively was 1,859,000 and 1,768,000 acres.

Will my hon. Friend tell us to what extent this is due to Government subsidies, and whether he is considering the suggestion of the hon. and gallant Member for Pollok (Commander Galbraith) that those subsidies should be withdrawn?

We are not seriously considering the hon. and gallant Gentleman's suggestion.

Does not the hon. Gentleman consider that these figures reflect the very greatest credit on our Scottish farmers?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that direct subsidies paid to the whole of agriculture are only £20 million?

10.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total volume of agricultural output estimated for the year ending May, 1951; and also the comparable figures for the years 1947 and 1939.

The total volume of agricultural output in Scotland for the year ending May, 1951, is estimated to be 18 per cent. greater than in 1946–47 and 47 per cent. greater than pre-war.

Will my hon. Friend indicate to the Scottish farmworkers and farmers our great satisfaction at this tremendous increase in productivity throughout rural Scotland? Will he further indicate to the people of Scotland generally the tremendous fillip that has been given to Scottish agriculture by the Labour Government?

The farmers and farmworkers of Scotland are due the greatest credit for their wonderful efforts since 1947; but I should just like to say that as they are, by and large, the farmers and farmworkers that we had before the war, there must be some reason for their doing so well.

Will the hon. Gentleman give any reason for the enormous drop in home-produced meat?

Does not the Joint Under-Secretary of State agree that this is a great achievement by private enterprise?

I have already paid tribute to the private enterprises responsible. Let me say to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman that the figures I have just given show that there has been a considerable increase in the home production of meat in recent years.

In recent years, but the hon. Gentleman was talking of pre-war. Naturally, even the Labour Government cannot always stay at their lowest point. Even they have to progress one way or the other.

May we take it that the figures given in the last three answers are to be found in the published reports of the Department?

Financial Relations (Report)

11.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the Report of the Catto Committee on the financial relations between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom.

While we all wish this Committee to do its job properly, is it not taking an inordinately long time to produce the facts to justify a possible further inquiry?

The Committee was appointed in July, 1950. It has met seven times since. A certain number of that Committee have spent a considerable time taking evidence. I am sure the hon. Gentleman realises that this is not something that can be decided in a day, and that a great deal of evidence has to be taken.

Children's Officer, West Lothian

13.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware of the strong opposition aroused by his refusal to endorse the nominee of the West Lothian County Council for the position of children's officer; and whether he is prepared to reconsider the position and approve the proposed appointment.

It was considered that the candidate in question did not have the experence and qualifications required in a children's officer; and after discussion with the county council, my right hon. Friend directed that he should not be appointed. I regret that no new information has been produced which would lead him to a different conclusion.

Is the hon. Lady aware of the excellent record of the West Lothian County Council in respect of the care of children, and is it likely that a council with such a record would make wantonly an unwise appointment? Is it not possible that too much stress is being placed upon paper qualifications?

No. It was pointed out clearly that we were not stressing paper qualifications at all, but from the evidence which we have this particular man has had no experience of local authority work with children, has had no administrative experience, and, as far as we know, has had no contact at all with deprived children. Naturally, the Secretary of State must be very careful when these appointments are made, since deprived children have not the care of their own parents.

While I recognise the validity of the answer my hon. Friend has given, I believe that there is more to be elucidated than is possible by Question and answer, and I therefore give notice that I shall endeavour to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

House Building, Glasgow

14.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many houses were completed in Glasgow during the last convenient 12 months' period; and how many are in course of erection.

Four thousand one hundred and fourteen houses were completed in the year ended 28th February, 1951, and 5,915 houses were under construction at that date.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that the figure of permanent houses he has given, which means 22,604 apartments, constitutes a post-war record for Glasgow; and will he confirm that this is the highest number of permanent houses built for letting by any local authority in Britain, other than London?

Is my hon. Friend not aware that this is in no wise a record, and that in 1934 there were 4,485 houses built?

Is the hon. Gentleman also aware that that was the year when the Socialists inherited a progressive programme, and that they have never since touched more than half that figure?

Does my hon. Friend not think that the Glasgow Corporation might make a start with building houses for people who most need them?

Does the hon. Gentleman know why there should be such dismay amongst his hon. Friends at this very good record of Glasgow in house building?

The surprising thing is that the Opposition should be so pleased to learn that we are getting on with house building. The suggestion is always being made that houses cannot be built under the Socialist Government, but the hon. Member for Govan (Mr. Browne) is now claiming that under our policy more houses for letting are being built than ever before.

Is it not true that this rise has only taken place since the ejection of the Socialist Council; and does he not think that this is a very good hint to other cities in Scotland which are short of houses?

The right hon. and gallant Gentleman is a very shrewd debater, but if he claims that the houses built in 1934 under a Labour administration in Glasgow were due to the progressive policy of the Tories in 1931 and 1932, it surely cannot have escaped his attention that it is only quite recently that the Tories regained control of Glasgow, and perhaps they were fortunate in inheriting the very good work done by the Socialists in the previous year.

Is it not the case that figures for housing in Glasgow have been constantly falling but that they are now showing a rise; and is it not further the case that the Socialists did not leave a single prepared site for the Progressives when they came in?

If the right hon. and gallant Gentlemant wants to compare the housing records of Labour and Tory controlled local authorities, let him compare Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Dentures And Spectacles

15.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many people in Scotland were supplied with dentures and spectacles last year; and what is his estimate of the sum likely to be saved next year in Scotland as a result of the Budget proposals.

In the year to 31st March last, just over 400,000 persons were supplied with dentures and just over 750,000 with spectacles. If Parliament passes in the near future the legislation needed for the charges proposed by my right hon. Friend, the saving in Scotland during the financial year now current is expected to exceed £1 million.

I should not say that there has been widespread abuse of these services, but there has been some abuse.

Since it is obvious that the Scottish people need spectacles to see the present meat ration and dentures with which to eat it, is the saving justified?

As my hon. Friend indicated that there will be a saving of £1 million, could she give any indication of the class of people who will aid us by saving that? Will the old age pensioners be subject to any means test when they make application for spectacles or dentures?

Those who at the present time are receiving national assistance and the majority of the old age pensioners who are on supplementary benefit will still be able to get dentures without cost.

If they are not on national assistance but are dependent entirely on their old age pension or their superannuation, have they to go through a means test in order to qualify?

I suggest that my hon. Friend await the Bill which will be published very soon. Those people who because of financial circumstances are unable to pay will, just as they get other benefits, have this benefit.