House Of Commons
Monday, 23rd April, 1951
The House met at Half past Two o'clock
Prayers
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
Private Business
British Transport Commission Bill
As amended, to be considered tomorrow.
Great Yarmouth Port And Haven Bill
As amended, considered; to be read the Third time.
London County Council (Money) Bill
Read a Second time, and committed.
Aberdeen Chartered Accountants' Widows' Fund Order Confirmation Bill
Edinburgh Chartered Accountants' Annuity, Etc, Fund Order Confirmation Bill
Read the Third time, and passed.
Oral Answers To Questions
Food Supplies
Flour (Consumption)
1.
asked the Minister of Food what was the consumption of flour per head of the civilian population in 1950; and how does this compare with 1938 and 1945.
The provisional estimate is 205 1b. per head as compared with 194 lb. before the war and 241 lb. in 1945.
Is my hon. Friend aware of the growing volume of complaints by local authorities about the wilful waste of flour and the increasing amount of bread that is being put into dustbins? Should not some appeal be made for economy in this respect?
The figures I have given do not seem to support that suggestion.
Syrup
2.
asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the present allocation of sugar to manufacturers only allows for the production of one 2-lb. tin of golden syrup or treacle per head of the population every seven months; and, in view of the demand for this food, if he will state when the 10 per cent. cut in sugar to manufacturers, made in January, 1950, is likely to be restored.
The production of golden syrup and treacle is nearly twice what it was in 1939. When the domestic ration was put up last January we should have liked to restore the small cut made in 1950, but we thought that housewives would rather have the sugar.
Is my hon. Friend aware that at this time of rising prices, 1-lb. of strawberry jam costs the same as 2-lb. of syrup? Is this not a good reason why the allocation should be increased as soon as possible?
Enforcement Officers, Shrewsbury
3.
asked the Minister of Food on how many occasions his food enforcement officers in Shrewsbury have, since 1945, taken action which, if taken by police officers, would require the production of a warrant.
I regret that this information is not available.
Will the hon. Gentleman not reconsider this matter and try to get this information, in view of the fact that these gentlemen possess powers which are not possessed by the police, who are compelled to keep a very careful record of this sort of infringement of civil liberties?
To provide such information would be quite beyond our capacity. It would mean taking on more staff.
Cheese
7.
asked the Minister of Food why some additional proportion of the present abundant milk supplies are not being used to maintain the cheese ration at three ounces a week.
The recent bad weather has caused a sharp fall in milk production and the balance available for manufacture has been 40 per cent. less in the first three months of this year than in the same period of 1950. Apart from essential production of milk powder for baby food, and some condensed milk for the Services, cheese is already given priority and milk is being diverted for its manufacture.
Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that there has, in fact, been plenty of milk for ordinary consumption in the last few months, and in view of this can he not divert some of it to maintain the cheese ration at what was, a couple of days ago, its legal level?
I have already explained that we are giving priority to cheese production, but that milk production this year has been 40 per cent. less than last year.
Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that in a few days' time he will be depleting the milk supplies still further by allowing, in response to clamour from the Opposition, the sale of cream at 6s. a pint? Why is my hon. Friend still pursuing this policy with regard to cream?
Does the Minister think that recent political developments have cleared the weather at all?
17.
asked the Minister of Food on what grounds he asked cheese mongers to ignore the annulment by this House of the Statutory Instrument reducing the ration of cheese from three ounces to two.
My right hon. Friend made no such request to cheesemongers.
Did not the right hon. Gentleman on 11th April express, in the House, the hope that traders would act responsibly and maintain the ration at two ounces? Was that not flouting the will of the House, and before he did that would it not have been better for the right hon. Gentleman to have come to the House and told us what he proposed to do?
18.
asked the Minister of Food in what form he gave guidance on 10th April, 1951, to trade organisations on the subject of the then cheese ration; whether in so doing he made it clear that they were free to sell three ounces of cheese per ration book; and whether he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT any documents or correspondence issued by him on this subject.
The statement which was issued with my right hon. Friend's approval on 10th April, 1951, was as follows:
" The Fats, Cheese and Tea ( Rationing) ( Amendment No. 2) Order, 1951
Following last night's Vote in the House of Commons in favour of the Prayer against the Fats, Cheese and Tea (Rationing) (Amendment No. 2) Order, 1951, the Ministry of Food state that constitutionally the annulment of this Order must await the making of the necessary Order in Council by His Majesty in Council. The Minister of Food is considering what further action should be taken, and intends to make a full statement in the House of Commons tomorrow."
There has been no other statement, except those made to the House.
Was not that statement calculated to induce in the minds of traders the wholly fallacious belief that they were not free to provide three ounces of cheese on the ration, and can the hon. Gentleman say whether it had that intention?
The statement was calculated to explain the position as fully as we were able to do so at that time.
19.
asked the Minister of Food on what grounds he was unable to inform traders on 11th April, 1951, that they were free to sell three ounces of cheese per ration book.
On grounds of law and public interest. The Order fixing a two-ounce ration was no longer enforceable by proceedings, but that Order was not revoked by His Majesty in Council until the following day. In view of the fact that the supplies available would not sustain a ration greater than two ounces, to invite traders to sell a three-ounce ration would have shown disregard for the public interest.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how he reconciles that statement with the assurance given by the Foreign Secretary that the Government accepted the decision of the House on this issue?
Answer.
In view of the importance of the statement of the Foreign Secretary on that occasion, will the Parliamentary Secretary reply to that question?
I understood the Foreign Secretary to say that he accepted the decision of the House, which, in fact, he did.
Does not my hon. Friend agree that the attitude taken by shopkeepers on this matter shows considerably greater wisdom than that taken up by the Opposition?
Is the Parliamentary Secretary contending that it is consistent with an assurance that the decision of the House had been accepted to seek to prevent traders implementing that decision?
21.
asked the Minister of Food when he will open negotiations with the New Zealand Dairy Produce Marketing Commission in order to regain for the United Kingdom the largest possible proportion of the New Zealand export of cheese.
Negotiations with the New Zealand Dairy Products Marketing Commission about butter and cheese from the 1951–52 production season will take place in June. The proportion of cheese to be exported to the United Kingdom is one of the matters to be discussed.
Can the hon. Gentleman tell us how the mind of the Minister is working on this matter? From what I gather he told us a fortnight ago we were getting the whole of the exportable surplus, but last week he said it was 90 to 97 per cent. What is the target to be when he starts discussions? Are we to get the whole of the exportable surplus, or not?
We shall endeavour to get as much dairy produce as possible.
Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the size of the exportable surplus very much depends on the price he offers?
29.
asked the Minister of Food how much milk has been made into cheese since 1st January compared with the same period in 1950.
Thirty million gallons of milk were made into cheese for the ration from 1st January to 7th April this year compared with 38¾ million gallons, in the same period in 1950.
In view of the decline in home cheese making, would it not be wise to postpone the freeing of cream sales for a month or two, even if it does disappoint some visitors to the Festival?
As the hon. Member will know, we have postponed the production of cream.
By one week.
Eggs
8.
asked the Minister of Food what quantity of Eire's exportable surplus of eggs his Department proposes to take in 1951.
My Department has undertaken to buy the whole of the Irish Republic's exportable surplus of eggs for the year February, 1951, to January, 1952, but has agreed that in the five months, February to June, 1951, the Irish Republican Government, if it so desires, may sell up to 25 per cent. of the exportable surplus to other markets. So far, only trivial quantities have been sold to other markets and my Department has bought practically all the available supplies.
Has the hon. Gentleman ensured that his Department will take the 1,250,000 cases of fresh eggs this spring that they undertook to take from Eire?
As I have already stated, we have undertaken to buy the whole exportable surplus.
Could my hon. Friend say what price we are paying for these eggs?
rose——
Surely I am entitled to an answer?
The Question on the Order Paper is about quantity and if my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann) wishes to inquire about price she should put down a Question.
Will my hon. Friend bear in mind, and take full note of, the encouragement afforded him by the pressure now being exerted on him from hon. Members opposite to increase his commitments to bulk purchase?
Can the hon. Gentleman tell the House what is to become of Mr. James Dillon's threat to drench us with Irish eggs?
14.
asked the Minister of Food on what date in 1950 he permitted the free sale of eggs; and how many eggs had been supplied on each ration book from 1st January, 1950, to that date.
On 19th March. The average number of eggs per ration book from 1st January to 19th March, 1950, was 30.
27.
asked the Minister of Food why he has failed to purchase large quantities of shell eggs offered respectively by Canada and Eire during the 12 months ended 31st March, 1951.
No offer of eggs from Canada was made to my Department in the 12 months ended 31st March, 1951. If such an offer had been made it is very doubtful whether we could have afforded the necessary dollars to take advantage of it. The purchase of eggs from the Irish Republic was the subject of an agreement covering the contract year 1st February, 1950, to 31st January, 1951. Under the agreement my Department undertook to purchase the whole of the Republic's exportable surplus of eggs. With regard to the arrangements from 1st February, 1951, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for Gillingham (Squadron Leader Burden) today.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary now tell the House why the intake of shell eggs from Ireland has been steadily decreasing in the last three years—since 1948—and what prospects there are for the immediate future?
The recent reduction has, as the hon. Gentleman knows, been due to the weather.
28.
asked the Minister of Food the quantity of shell eggs respectively of home produced and imported origins distributed in the United Kingdom during the year ended 31st March, 1951; the total subsidy paid; and the amount of such subsidy per shell egg.
The quantity distributed by, or on behalf of, the Ministry of Food in the United Kingdom in the year ended 31st March, 1951, was 4,698 million home produced and 1,782 million imported. The total amount of subsidy was £29,739,000 which works out at approximately 1.1d. per egg.
Is it not a fact that the hens which laid these subsidised eggs during the last 12 months are now being slaughtered in their hundreds of thousands to provide table poultry in view of the shortage of meat? Will there not thus be a Ministerially promoted egg famine immediately this flush period is over?
No. That does not appear to be the fact.
Pork
9.
asked the Minister of Food what profit his Department made on frozen pork imported from France in 1950.
None, Sir.
Meat
10 and 11.
asked the Minister of Food (1) what percentage of the carcase meat consumed in Great Britain during the latest period of 12 months for which figures are available, was supplied to canteens; and what percentage of the population are estimated to have consumed that allocation of carcase meat;
(2) what percentage of the carcase meat consumed in Great Britain during the latest period of 12 months for which figures are available, was supplied to hotels, restaurants and clubs; and what percentage of the population are estimated to have consumed that allocation of carcase meat.Of the total quantity of ration quality carcase meat consumed during 1950 it is estimated that 3.9 per cent. was supplied to industrial canteens, 3.6 per cent. to school canteens, and 4.4 per cent. to hotels, restaurants and clubs. I am afraid it is not possible to make the estimate asked for in the second part of the Questions.
If it is not possible to make that estimate, how can the hon. Gentleman and his Department possibly tell whether or not canteens, hotels and restaurants are getting more or less than their fair share and whether or not the men who produce the meat—the agricultural workers—could get some more instead?
We could estimate the number of main meals supplied in these establishments but it is impossible to estimate precisely the number of people who enjoy these facilities.
12.
asked the Minister of Food what are the comparative quantities of meat available to a child, including the benefit of school meals, and to a diabetic, respectively.
Five school meals plus the present domestic ration would provide a child of five years or over with 23 pennyworth of meat a week. Diabetics get three rations at present amounting to 2s. 6d. a week.
Will the Minister reconsider the question of this very small ration for diabetics, bearing in mind the extremely small number of people concerned and the greatest possible need of their having more meat?
In these matters we act on the advice given to us by our medical advisers.
22.
asked the Minister of Food if, in forecasting a rise in the weekly meat ration to 1s. 8d. in August, he took into consideration the desirability of reserving in cold store for use late in the winter some of the peak production of beef and lamb fattened during the summer grazing season.
For technical reasons it would not be practicable for us to do this on a scale which would make any worthwhile addition to our reserves.
Is there not the technical possibility of keeping back some home-killed meat in cold store, averaging out the supplies so that we do not run into another 8d. meat ration next winter?
We have looked into this matter carefully. Our cold storage capacity is not designed to freeze meat, and to provide two or three thousand tons of meat a week a cold storage capacity of 65,000 tons would be necessary.
How was the right hon. Gentleman able to make his forecast for August when he told the House last week that he never knew how much home-killed meat would be available until nine days before the week in which it was to be issued?
Is it not absurd to have a glut of meat from our home pastures in the middle of a meat famine? Will the hon. Gentleman not reconsider the matter of cold storage?
The main problem is not so much conserving our home killed supplies but of seeing that they are as widely spread as possible so that we can use cold storage space to store the imported meat.
24.
asked the Minister of Food why he has not imported camel meat which is available in the Near and Middle East, to supplement the whale, reindeer and beaver meats now being imported to vary the meat ration.
None of these meats is included in the meat ration, and the hon. and learned Member must rely upon private traders to satisfy his tastes.
Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that if the Socialist Government have the hump camel meat makes an excellent diet?
Russian Salmon, Tyneside
13.
asked the Minister of Food how many tins of Russian salmon have been delivered to Tyneside; and what was the average period they had been in stock.
About 313,000 tins were released for the North-Eastern area last month. They had been in stock for an average of about 24 months.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some of the Russian salmon has been in stock for 11 years? What compensation is being offered to the stores who have been sent these tins?
I am not so aware. I am dealing with the tins to which the hon. Lady referred and it was usual in the trade to store such tins of salmon for many years.
Sheep, Scotland (Price)
15.
asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the recently announced differentiation of price as between shorn and unshorn sheep sent to collecting centres has caused confusion in Scotland and has affected marketing of fat sheep adversely; if he will state what is meant by shearlings; and whether hoggs, last year's lambs, are denied the extra 3d. premium if still unshorn.
I regret that, owing to a misunderstanding, the allowances for higher wool prices for certain classes of sheep in wool was not at first extended to lambs. I am glad to say that after further talks with the Agriculture Departments and the National Farmers' Unions, it has been decided that during the period of differential prices for shorn and unshorn animals an additional payment of 3d. per lb. estimated dressed carcase weight is to be made this year for all sheep and lambs in wool, including last year's lambs but not sucking lambs. Shearlings are animals which have been shorn once.
Will the hon. Gentleman see that proper publicity is given to that statement, as up to last week there was much confusion about the definition?
If there be confusion, we will do our best to see that the position is widely known.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the description of a shearling as being an animal which has been shorn once is not quite correct, because frequently lambs are shorn in the summer but are sold as lambs?
In our recent discussions we were advised by the National Farmers' Unions to retain the word, "shearlings."
Will the hon. Gentleman make clear that payments go back to 2nd April?
Hides (Price)
25.
asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the need for effecting a reduction in the cost of living, he will instruct his Department not to withdraw hides from public auction on the grounds that the prices bid are too low.
During the past four weeks the average price of hides sold at Ministry of Food auction sales has fallen by over 25 per cent. and considerably reduced prices have, therefore, been accepted. Prices offered at two recent auction sales, according to the best advice available, were not considered to reflect the current price levels and certain lots were withdrawn in accordance with the published conditions of sale.
When considering this matter will the Minister bear in mind that in the past 10 months, since hides became a Government monopoly, the Government have made a profit of £6 million out of the sales of hides, which has been reflected in the increasing cost of leather and boots and shoes? Is it not the business of the Government to get prices down and not to maintain them?
Even if it is true that hides have come down in price by 25 per cent. in the last month, is it not also true that the price went up from 19d. to 49d. in 10 months, during which the Government had a full monopoly? Is it not an abuse of monopolistic powers to refuse all supplies to the market?
The Government, like anyone else, have to look at the price level, and if it appears that there are buyers' rings which are bringing down prices below reasonable levels they must act in the same way as private traders would act.
Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter again at he first opportunity.
Fats (Export To Tanganyika)
30.
asked the Minister of Food how much margarine and cooking fats have been exported to Tanganyika from the United Kingdom during the last 12 months.
In the year ended 28th February, 1951, the latest period for which details are available, three hundredweights of margarine, 21 hundredweights of cooking fat and one hundredweight of lard were exported to Tanganyika.
Margarine Production
31.
asked the Minister of Food how far margarine production will be reduced as a result of the shortage of sulphur.
My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade—[HON. MEMBERS: "Who is he?"]—informs me that if there is no serious worsening of the sulphur position, it should be possible to maintain supplies to edible oil refiners at their present level. We do not at present contemplate that any cut in margarine production will be necessary.
Has my hon. Friend seen recent Press reports, which suggested that margarine production would be reduced as a result of the shortage of sulphur; and does he not think that his reply will cause consternation in the Tory ranks because there will be one thing less for them to exploit?
I cannot take any responsibility for Press speculations.
Australian Canned Foods
32.
asked the Minister of Food what restrictions he has put on firms in Leicester to prevent them from purchasing canned soups or other foods from Australia.
There are no restrictions on private firms purchasing from Australia canned soups or the majority of other processed foodstuffs; in fact, many processed foods, including canned soups, vegetables and jams, have been on open general licence since October, 1949. If the hon. Member can give me further details of any difficulties experienced by firms in Leicester, I shall be glad to look into the matter.
Is my hon. Friend aware that the managing director of a chain of shops in Leicester declared that he was not able to make purchases in Australia, and will he see that that statement, which was made as recently as 30th March, is refuted by him?
I have seen the report in question. No British purchasing mission has been to Australia recently nor has my Department purchased, for some years, any of the commodities specified in the article.
How many times have import licences been refused for imports by private traders which were in competition with bulk purchase imports? Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the proposed import referred to in the question was refused by us and eventually went to Palestine?
Is it not true that to import even under an open general licence a permit has to be obtained from the Treasury for the necessary funds, and that the stop is operated through the Treasury? Will the Parliamentary Secretary have this case investigated, as the statement was made in a debate broadcast by the B.B.C., and give the House the facts?
I have had this statement investigated and it appears to be unfounded.
Sugar
33.
asked the Minister of Food how much sugar has been produced in the sugar beet campaign which has recently ended.
Production from the 1950–51 campaign amounted to 374,000 tons refined and 330,000 tons of raw sugar—equivalent, in all, to 677,000 tons of refined sugar.
Can my hon. Friend say how these figures compare with the previous year?
Yes, Sir, they constitute a record.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary estimate how much sugar was lost through delay in processing, because not enough factories were available to take the crop this year?
I can assure the House that very little was lost. The Corporation and all the employees did a grand job.
In view of the magnificent production record of the British Sugar Corporation in this matter, will the hon. Gentleman resist any future temptation to meddle in the industry by nationalisation?
Invalids (Tea Ration)
34.
asked the Minister of Food whether he will provide an extra tea ration to chronic invalids.
On these matters my right hon. Friend takes the advice of the Food Rationing (Special Diets) Advisory Committee of the Medical Research Council, who are of the opinion that there is no medical condition requiring extra rations of tea for its treatment.
Is the hon. Member aware that I have not based this Question on medical condition, but on the fact that a cup of tea is one of the few pleasures which this type of person can get? It would not mean much tea. Would he not reconsider the whole question?
In these matters I think we should accept the advice of those best able to advise us.
Will the hon. Gentleman accept the advice of his own Minister and remember that "A little of what you fancy does you good"?
Lambs, Kirby Moorside (Grading)
35.
asked the Minister of Food why, on 10th April, 1951, 117 lambs entered by Mr. Wood, Nawton, were not allowed to be graded at the Kirby Moorside Grading Centre on the ground that they had arrived 20 minutes late.
The latest time for the acceptance of stock grading at this centre is 1.0 p.m. On the day in question the grading of the sheep of all other producers at this centre was completed by 12 noon, but the grading panel stood by until 1.0 p.m. when they closed their grading lists. As Mr. Wood's sheep did not arrive until 1.20 p.m., too late for grading that day, they had to be refused, but exceptional arrangements were made by the Ministry's area officer, who was in the market, for these sheep to be accepted the following day at Pickering.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that producers are not given notice of these times, which are the responsibility of a ministerial whim, and that the decision of the area officer meant that these sheep had to be walked some 15 miles? Will he see that the rules are interpreted more reasonably so that animals do not suffer unnecessarily by being taken long distances?
It would appear, from the fact that other sheep were tendered before 12 noon, that the notice was well known, but I will look into the matter.
Transport
Bridge, Llantarnam (Cost)
36.
asked the Minister of Transport the total expenditure on the construction of the new bridge at Llantarnam, Monmouthshire; and whether the width of the new carriageway for vehicular traffic, excluding kerbs, is wider or narrower and, if so, by how much than the previous bridge.
The total cost of this bridge, including the approach roads, is about £14,900. The carriageway of the new bridge, which is a temporary structure, is 3 ft. 9 in. narrower than that of the old one, which had no proper footpath. There is a 5 ft. footpath cantilevered outside the new bridge.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has now so narrowed this bridge that it is virtually impossible for two buses to pass? Is not £14,000 a lot of money to spend on narrowing a bridge?
This bridge is of the standard cantilevered Callender type, and because of this the carriageway cannot be varied. It is a temporary bridge as the hon. Gentleman knows.
Has the Minister asked for the views of the local Road Safety Committee as to how this bridge will affect road safety in that area?
Road Hauliers (Compensation)
37 and 38.
asked the Minister of Transport (1) in how many cases has application for confirmation of compensation agreements of road haulage undertakings been made to the Transport Arbitration Tribunal; and how many cases have been confirmed;
(2) how many cases of compensation of road haulage undertakings in excess of £20,000 have been finally completed and paid.The number of cases in which applications for confirmation of compensation agreements had been filed with the Transport Arbitration Tribunal by 31st March, 1951, was 22. The tribunal had determined the amount of compensation payable in two cases, each over £20,000, and these have been completed and paid.
Is the Minister aware that these cases are taking over seven months to settle, which means that the Government have the use of a very large amount of capital which could be put to better uses by the private owner?
This has not been the fault of the Transport Commission. Both sides have been rather reluctant to proceed until the Tribunal have determined certain principles.
Wood Blocks
39.
asked the Minister of Transport in how many road repairs and replacements for which he was responsible during the last two years, wooden blocks have been laid as a road surface.
No wood blocks have been used during the last two years for repairs and replacements on trunk roads for which I am responsible. On other roads wood blocks have not been used for repairing any substantial lengths, but only for patching roads already paved with that material, and for some bridges. The Barton Swing Bridge, 65 yards in length was repaired with wood blocks last year.
What is the right hon. Gentleman doing to prevent the use of this lethal surface by local authorities?
My reply clearly demonstrates that that process is not continuing.
Fluorescent Lighting
40.
asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the dazzling effect of vertical fluorescent lighting now used in shop windows; and what steps he intends to take to eliminate this danger to road safety.
I have no evidence that this form of lighting is likely to cause danger through dazzle, but if the hon. Member will give me particulars of any cases he has in mind I will look into them.
Would the right hon. Gentleman take a trip to the north end of Bond Street this evening, where he will be satisfied that the danger is real?
I have had no complaint about this form of dazzle.
Retired Railwaymen (Superannuation)
41.
asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the de creased value of the superannuation allowances paid to retired railway clerks due to the rising cost of living; and whether he will institute an investigation into this matter.
I am aware, of course, of the effect of rising prices on those living on fixed incomes, but if an investigation were undertaken it would be a matter for the British Transport Commission and not for me.
I am not clear whether the Minister holds himself responsible for the welfare of these employees of the railways or not, but if the whole of the assets of the railways are taken over, should not the liabilities also be taken over? Would not it be wise to have an inquiry?
I would remind the hon. and gallant Gentleman that these funds are already in heavy deficit, but in any case it is a matter for the Commission to determine.
When the right hon. Gentleman says that this is a matter for the Commission to determine does he ignore the pledges he gave when the Transport Bill was before the House, that those whose superannuation funds were taken over from the old railway companies would have their pensions adequately protected?
The hon. Member is wrong. I said that they would be protected as they were taken over, but this suggests an alteration. They have been fully safeguarded as they prevailed at the time the Commission took over.
How can the Minister now repudiate the responsibility for this matter, when about 18 months ago he debated it with me at some length upon the Adjournment?
Whenever a matter affecting transport is raised on the Floor of the House, I have to put the case of the Transport Commission, but it does not affect the position that if any adjustment is to be made in this matter it is their responsibility.
Will my right hon. Friend consider increasing the freight rate from 10 to 12 per cent. to meet additional pensions for these people?
That appears to me to be another matter.
Would the right hon. Gentleman also represent the case of the railway superannuitants to the Transport Commission?
Lorries (Convoys)
42.
asked the Minister of Transport whether, in the interests of road safety, he will issue regulations to discourage the tendency of lorries to operate in convoys.
I do not think that regulations would be appropriate. In my view the Highway Code is the proper instrument for encouraging safe and considerate behaviour on the roads in matters of this kind. Advice is given in paragraph 57 of the Code that drivers of a series of large vehicles should space their vehicles so as to facilitate overtaking by faster traffic.
As British Road Services are now guilty of this practice, will the right hon. Gentleman call the attention of the Road Haulage Executive to the matter?
I am not aware that British Road Services are guilty. I travel on the roads as much as anyone, and I would say, generally speaking, that drivers of heavy lorries are among the best and most considerate drivers on the road.
Although that may well be the case, does not the right hon. Gentleman know, from his own experience, that a great many of these long and heavy vehicles tend to bunch together on main roads, and does he not think that it would be useful to send a suggestion of this kind to the Road Haulage Executive?
It is not always the deliberate purpose of heavy lorry drivers to bunch together. More often than not road conditions produce this bunching as does overtaking and cutting-in.
In view of the danger on the roads caused by this practice, will the right hon. Gentleman look into the matter and use his influence where he can?
Certainly. No one has a greater interest than myself in ensuring that the Code is observed.
Stray Sheep (South Wales)
44.
asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware of the danger caused to pedestrians and motorists in the South Wales valleys by the large number of sheep allowed to roam the roads; and whether, in the interests of the prevention of road accidents, he will seek a report on this matter from his Advisory Committee on the Prevention of Road Accidents.
I have received no reports from the motoring organisations or elsewhere suggesting that straying sheep—[HON. MEMBERS: "Black sheep."]—are causing serious danger to road traffic in South Wales and I doubt whether this matter could with advantage be referred to the Committee on Road Safety. But if my hon. Friend will be good enough to let me have more particulars, I will look into the matter further.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that recently there has been a fatal accident—[Laughter.] It would seem that I am unfortunate in the day that this Question has reached the Order Paper, but it is no laughing matter. Would my right hon. Friend carry out the request I have made in my Question?
Before any action is decided upon, will the right hon. Gentleman discuss this matter with those of his right hon. Friends who are more familiar with the problems of straying Welsh sheep than he is?
Bbc (Parliamentary Questions)
45.
asked the Prime Minister which Minister is now responsible for answering Questions on matters of general policy affecting operations of the British Broadcasting Corporation.
I have been asked to reply. For the time being, Questions on this subject, of a kind which cannot appropriately be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General, should be put down to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.
As the Postmaster-General has not yet succeeded in bringing about any improvement of the persistently bad reception on the Yorkshire coast, would the right hon. Gentleman himself give an assurance that he will have technical inquiries made, and made before October when, I understand, he intends once more to give himself the pleasure of a visit to Scarborough?
That has hardly anything to do with the Question on the Paper. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would put it down.
Would the right hon. Gentleman say what he means by the phrase "for the time being"?
Pending further resignations.
China (Diplomatic Relations)
46.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what status is accorded by the Chinese authorities to His Majesty's Chargé d'Affaires in Peking and His Majesty's Consul-General in Shanghai.
The Chinese Government accepted His Majesty's Chargé d' Affaires in that capacity to discuss preliminary and procedural matters on the establishment of diplomatic relations. Pending the establishment of such relations the Chinese Government have not accepted His Majesty's Consular Officers in China, including His Majesty's Consul-General at Shanghai, in their official capacity.
Is His Majesty's Consul-General in Shanghai free to leave China as and when he likes?
I should like notice about the details, but we certainly claim that he has the right. We have had difficulties both with exit and entry permits from and to China recently.
Does His Majesty's Chargé d' Affaires in Peking enjoy full diplomatic status?
No, Sir. I think not.
Can the hon. Gentleman say how long it is since a foreign government has refused to recognise the Government of this country de jure?
Diplomatic Corps, Czechoslovakia (Restrictions)
47.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement about the new restrictions imposed in Czechoslovakia on British diplomats.
The hon. Member is no doubt referring to the recently imposed regulations restricting contacts between Czechoslovak authorities and the representatives of foreign countries in Czechoslovakia. According to these regulations all matters of foreign policy and foreign trade are to be concentrated in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Foreign Trade. Czechoslovak State offices and authorities are instructed not to act upon any application or personal intervention on the part of diplomatic missions but to forward all such matters to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Can the Minister confirm the report in "The Times" that this restriction applies not only to all diplomats but to all foreigners, even those from Communist countries, and is any protest being made either by the British Ambassador or by the diplomatic corps?
I cannot say whether it refers to all private citizens. I understand that it refers to all foreign diplomats without distinction of country. Although this is an inconvenience, it is not really a very drastic restriction. It really means that all foreign relations are to be channelled through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Prague, which is not altogether unusual.
Anglo-Polish Trade Agreement
49.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the £400,000 due under the Anglo-Polish Trade Agreement of January, 1949, has now been received; and if any explanation of the delay in payment has been offered to him.
50.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what action has been taken by His Majesty's Government consequent upon the refusal of the Polish Government to pay the first instalment of monies owing under the Anglo-Polish Agreement of 1949.
68.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reply has been received to the inquiries made by His Majesty's Ambassador in Warsaw regarding the delay in payment of the sum of £400,000 due to be paid on 31st March, 1951.
As I told the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir J. Mellor) on 9th April, His Majesty's Ambassador in Warsaw has been instructed to inquire from the Polish authorities whether early payment may be expected. No reply has yet been received to that inquiry, nor has the money been received. His Majesty's Ambassador has been asked for a report on the position.
Falkland Island Dependencies
52.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if, in view of his failure to get a settlement through the International Court, he will say what further steps he proposes to take in order to secure the withdrawal from British territory of the Argentine personnel at present stationed on Deception Island.
His Majesty's Government still consider that this, like all other international disputes, ought to be settled by peaceful negotiation and hold to their view that the best method is reference to the International Court.
Is the Minister aware that the supine attitude of the Government in this matter simply encourages foreign governments to set themselves up on British territory whenever they feel like it, and that that is doing very grave harm to British prestige? Will he not take more effective measures than that of referring the matter to the International Court, which he took two years ago and which did not serve any useful purpose at all?
I can assure the House that I am well aware that this is a most unsatisfactory situation. I cannot agree that the Government have adopted a supine attitude. We consider that international disputes should be settled in a peaceful manner by negotiation, perhaps especially disputes involving disputed jurisdiction. It is difficult to see at present what more drastic measures the hon. Gentleman has in mind.
Have His Majesty's Government not considered the possibility of placing the Minister of Food in temporary charge of the food supplies of the area concerned?
Will my hon. Friend continue his efforts to persuade the Opposition that Lord Palmerston has been a long time dead?
Can the Minister say whether the Argentine Government hold the same view as the British Government and whether they, too, are prepared to submit this question to the International Court?
Unfortunately, it is the case that we have not been able to persuade them to accept the jurisdiction of the Court in this respect.
Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind, when recommending that the matter should be put before the International Court, the very long time which the Court has so far taken to deal with such complaints as that against Albania, for instance? Will he consider whether there is not a better and quicker machinery than the International Court to deal with matters such as this?
The best way would be to reach agreement without going to court. If we have to go to some international authority or tribunal, I know of nothing which would be much more expeditious.
Germany
Kidnapping, Berlin
53.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been called to two kidnapping attempts by the Communist People's Party inside the British Sector of Berlin, one of which was successful; and whether a reply has been received to the protest addressed by the British Commandant to the Soviet representative on the Control Commission at Berlin.
The answer to both questions is "Yes, Sir." The Soviet Commandant's reply is entirely unsatisfactory in that it does not promise the return of the kidnapped man to the British Sector. The British Commandant has, however, made it quite clear that he will not tolerate any illegal action by members of the Soviet zone or East Berlin police inside the British Sector.
In view of these constant outrages, will not the hon. Gentleman take up the matter through the British Ambassador in Moscow and make a very decided protest?
I will consider that.
Visitors To Uk (Currency)
62.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what currency arrangements are being made to enable Germans to travel to this country during the Festival of Britain; and what steps are being taken to bring the importance of the Festival to their attention.
The grant of currency for Germans to travel outside Germany is entirely a matter for the German Federal Government. So far as I am aware, no special currency allocation has been made to enable Germans to visit this country during the Festival. Full publicity is given to the importance of the Festival in all zones of Germany through the Press, the radio and other publicity media.
British Consulate, Taipeh (Incident)
54.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the incident at the British Consulate, Taipeh, Taiwan.
63.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is aware that the Union Jack was hauled down from the roof of the British Consulate in Formosa by Chinese Nationalist demonstrators whilst Chinese Nationalist police were standing by; and whether a protest has been lodged with the Chinese Nationalist authorities.
His Majesty's Consul at Tamsui has reported that, on the morning of 17th April, about 40 students entered the Consulate, hauled down the Union Jack and hoisted the Nationalist Flag. About half an hour later, the police persuaded the students to leave. A few slogans were painted on the walls, but no damage was done to the Consulate and none of the staff was harmed. His Majesty's Consul further reported that he had lodged a protest with the Provincial Governor.
Can my hon. Friend say for how long any considerable number of Chinese students has been in this area?
Anglo-Egyptian Treaty
55.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in what circumstances His Majesty's Government waived their claim under paragraph 4 of the Annexe to Article 8 of the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936 under which the Egyptian Government was responsible for constructing at its own expense the accommodation, water supply and convalescent camp in the Canal Zone referred to in paragraph 3.
The hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. His Majesty's Government have never waived this claim.
Do we understand by that reply that the bulk of the accommodation for troops in the Canal Zone was paid for by the Egyptian Government, or does the hon. Gentleman mean that we have not waived our right to claim for it at some time?
The latter is the correct view. We have not waived our right to claim for it. It was explained on a previous occasion that this accommodation has not been paid for.
Would not this have been an exceptionally suitable subject for a counter-claim against Egypt's sterling balances, and why was not that claim pressed at that time?
As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are a great many claims of various kinds outstanding between the two countries. What the hon. Gentleman is suggesting is that we should not attempt to settle any one of them until we can settle them all, and that would really make it too difficult.
57 and 58.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (1) whether agreement has at any time been reached or is now being discussed as to the person or body of persons who shall arbitrate under Article 16 of the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936, in case of the high contracting parties being unable to agree at the end of the 20-year period upon the terms of the revised treaty, which shall in any event provide for the continuation of the alliance in accordance with the principles contained in Articles 4, 5, 6 and 7;
(2) whether agreement has at any time been reached or is now being discussed as to the person or body of persons who shall arbitrate under Article 8 of the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936, as to the question whether the presence of British Forces in the Canal Zone is no longer necessary after the 20-year period envisaged in Article 16, owing to the fact that the Egyptian Army is in a position to ensure by its own resources the liberty and entire security of navigation of the Suez Canal.The answer to both these Questions is, "No, Sir."
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there have been persistent reports, both in the United States and Egyptian Press, that H.M. Government have submitted proposals to the Egyptian Government that we would withdraw our troops in the Canal Zone before the expiration of the Treaty, in an attempt to get a mutual defence agreement; and, since that is not wanted in Egypt, is it not a fact that the negotiations cannot be expected to succeed, and are thought by hon. Members on this side of the House to be extremely ill-timed in any event? Can he deny that.
I think the hon. Gentleman is trying to lead me into revealing the nature of the discussions in Egypt, which both parties have agreed to keep confidential for the time being.
Chapel Dedication, London (Usa Visitors)
60.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps His Majesty's Government are taking to offer hospitality in the United Kingdom to the relatives of the 28,000 members of the United States Forces based on this country who gave their lives in the last war, and to whom the Jesus Chapel of St. Paul's Cathedral is being dedicated on 4th July next.
The arrangements for the accommodation and entertainment in the United Kingdom of relatives coming from the United States for this ceremony are in the hands of the Council of the American Memorial Chapel Fund and the English-Speaking Union. I understand that the numbers to be expected are not yet known. The question of a Government reception for them is under consideration.
Is it not a fact that it was suggested that the Government should provide accommodation for these visitors, who will not number more than 500 at the outside? Is not that a reasonable thing to do in the circumstances?
That is a matter of opinion, of course. I do not think that one would expect that, in corresponding circumstances, visitors from this country who go abroad would be paid for by the Government of the country to which they were going.
61.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs which United States war leaders are being invited to attend the Dedication of the Jesus Chapel of St. Paul's Cathedral on 4th July; and whether it is intended that they should be the guests of His Majesty's Government during their visit to this country.
Invitations to this ceremony are being issued by the Council of the American Memorial Chapel Fund and the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's. I understand that some 18 United States war leaders are being invited; I have not yet received the full list of names. His Majesty's Government intend that those who are able to accept the invitation should be their guests while in this country.
Austria (Arrests)
64.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been called to the frequent kidnapping of Austrian citizens in the International Zone of Vienna by, or on behalf of, the Soviet authorities; and whether he will see that a protest is made through the Control Commission to the Soviet representative.
It is reported that five recent cases of arbitrary arrest are at present under investigation by the Austrian authorities, that one of the arrests occurred in the International Sector and that the Austrian Government intends to protest to the Allied Council. When this protest has been considered by the Allied Council, it will be for the Western elements of the Council to decide, in the light of the facts that emerge, whether a protest should be made to the Soviet representative.
Has the attention of the hon. Gentleman been called to the statement of an Austrian Minister that these kidnappings take place daily? As I have frequently called the attention of the Government to them, cannot some drastic measures at last be taken?
It is easier to say that drastic measures should be taken than it is to say what they should be for this purpose. I entirely agree that there have been a number of these cases, and we are most perturbed about them. In many cases, protests have been lodged.
Arab Refugees
65.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what attitude His Majesty's Government is adopting in United Nations regarding those Arab refugees who still hope to be returned to their former homes in Palestine; whether this attitude is shared by other member States; and what steps are being taken to implement decisions.
His Majesty's Government consider that Palestine refugees wishing to return to their former homes and to live at peace with their neighbours have the right to do so. His Majesty's Government believe, however, that it is in the interests of the refugees themselves that the majority of them should, without prejudice to this right or to their right to receive compensation, settle among their brethren in Arab countries. These views were clearly expressed at the United Nations, and the voting on the resolutions affecting refugees, of which the United Kingdom Delegation were co-sponsors, indicates that they are shared to a considerable extent by other Governments. As regards the implementation of these resolutions, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency is setting up a Re-integration Fund to finance the resettlement projects, and the Palestine Conciliation Commission is establishing an office which will pay special attention to the question of compensation for refugees.
Would the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that many people who are responsible for trying to help these people in Arab countries are of the opinion that to hold out hope of return to these people is completely unrealistic and merely prolonging the suffering which they are now undergoing? Further, would he not look into the whole of the Government's policy on this matter, with a view to trying finally to settle these people somewhere as quickly as possible?
I think that the Government's policy does take that fully into account. We consider that the right to return home should be preserved, and we have made it quite clear that, in practice, the sensible thing is to settle them in Arab countries.
In view of the statements made in recent debates about the need for adequate finance, can the hon. Gentleman say whether adequate finance is forthcoming to back this venture?
No, Sir; I cannot say that finance is adequate. It has fallen far short of the calculations of what was thought to be necessary, while the numbers of refugees, on which those calculations were made, have turned out to be higher than expected.
Would my hon. Friend use his good offices to see that some measure of peace is arranged between the Arab States and Israel, because that would be the best way of dealing with the difficulty?
We have always made it plain that the only thing that can lead to a solution is a decrease in the tension existing between Israel and the neighbouring States.
Would the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, on this matter, the Government are pursuing a policy which is completely impracticable, and that in the circumstances it is merely prolonging the agony of these people, who have already suffered enough?
We are pursuing no such policy. Our policy is that these people should be resettled in neighbouring countries, where it is possible to do so. The hon. and gallant Gentleman is inviting us to say that these people have no right to return to their own homes.
Anti-Communist Propaganda
66.
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what is the existing machinery for conducting psychological warfare designed to spread the truth and expose Communist untruth; and what improvements he hopes to introduce.
The official machinery consists of the information services of the Foreign Office, Colonial Office and Commonwealth Relations Office together with the services supplied by the Central Office of Information, the whole operating under the direction of the responsible Ministers working in close collaboration. An important part is also played by the overseas services of the B.B.C., who maintain very close contact with these Departments, and by the British Council acting on behalf of the Colonial Office and Commonwealth Relations Office and in consultation with the Foreign Office. As regards the second paragraph of the Question, as the hon. Member was informed on 18th April, these existing arrangements are adequate, and I have no announcement to make regarding improvements at the present time.
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the opinion of many people experienced in this matter, the present arrangements are very far from being adequate? Would he say what steps His Majesty's Government are taking to see how the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and other defence organisations can be brought into this matter, and, possibly, have the whole of this very important work transferred to them?
I think that the question relating to the North Atlantic Treaty goes wholly beyond the Question on the Order Paper, but if the hon. and gallant Gentleman has any specific criticism or suggestion to make I shall be glad to consider it.
When the hon. Gentleman refers to the B.B.C., will he have a responsible person to censor broadcasts before they are given, because many of the broadcasts have been very Left Wing?
Brixham Trawler (Loss)
(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Transport whether he has any information which he can give to the House concerning the loss of the trawler "Twilit Waters" off the coast of Cornwall between 11th and 20th April.