asked the Minister of Supply what steps he is taking to ensure that the automobile and ancillary industries are supplied with sufficient raw materials to enable them to work to full capacity.

These industries receive their due share of controlled materials. I regret that there is unlikely to be an early improvement in the supply of these materials.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is absolutely vital that these important industries should work to maximum capacity? In view of that, will he immediately reconsider the export of iron castings, and perhaps also of some forms of steel, so that the maximum amount of steel may be made available to these industries?

Yes, Sir. The maximum amount is made available to these industries, but they have not been working to capacity at any time since the war. We very much regret that, owing to the falling-off in imports of sheet steel, we cannot supply these industries with all the steel they require.

Is the Minister making any special arrangements about the supply of steel for that part of the automobile industry which is working for re-armament?

The difficulty with the automobile industry is mainly the inability to get sheet steel, owing to lack of imports. There are also some other difficulties; some non-ferrous metals are scarce.

May I ask the Minister whether, in addition to the difficulty about sheet steel, he would be prepared to receive representations from me about the shortage of tubular steel which I found in the King's Norton factory centre on Saturday, and which is required for jeeps being made to the order of the Government under the re-armament programme?

I should be very happy to look into any representations which the right hon. Gentleman may make to me.

In view of the urgency of the re-armament programme, will the right hon. Gentleman consider those industries which are not working to full capacity, and do whatever he can to see that what is not required by them is diverted to the armaments programme?

Yes, Sir; so far as it is possible to do so. We have asked all major contractors to do as much subcontracting as they can, in cases where there is vacant capacity and available labour.

What does the Minister expect will be the production of the new mill at Margam? How soon will it be in production and what difference will that production make to the automobile industry?

I cannot give exact figures; it should be in full production at the end of the year, and should relieve the situation to some extent.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware of the nuisance from the noise of the aero-engine testing station at Woodmansterne, Carshalton; and what arrangements he is making to move the testing station to some more suitable location.

I am aware of complaints of noise from the operation of these test beds. It is hoped to make arrangements to transfer the beds to a more suitable site in the near future.

Is the Minister aware that in this densely populated area the noise is spread some three or four miles and is very disturbing? When will he implement the undertaking given by his right hon. Friend the Minister of Civil Aviation, three years ago to shift this station to some other place?

We are trying to make arrangements to shift these beds, and I hope we shall be able to do so within a short time. Various alterations and repairs have to be made, but I am hopeful that, within three or four months, the change will have taken place.

Can the Minister tell us to which hon. Member's constituency this nuisance will be shifted?

asked the Minister of Supply how many D.C. 3 Dakota ex-Royal Air Force aircraft have been broken up by his Department, or by contractors, during the last five years; how many of these aircraft are still held ready for breaking up; what consideration has been given to these aircraft being sold for use by the British European Airways Corporation, or any charter companies, instead of being broken up;] and if he will make a statement of Government policy on this matter.

One Dakota aircraft was broken down at a Ministry depot before 1948 and none is awaiting breakdown. Since June, 1946, 128 beyond economical repair have been broken down at the request of the Air Ministry, under contracts placed by my Department, for the recovery for the R.A.F. of components and spares, which would otherwise have to be bought for dollars. Dakotas declared surplus are normally disposed of by competitive tender and 20 have been sold in the last five years. Both British European Airways Corporation and charter companies were invited to tender.

Has my right hon. Friend any information that these aircraft, which he says were not worth recovering, have been flown into some of the aerodromes, or at least one of them, where the breaking down was taking place? Would it not have been worth while, and more advantageous, to have sold them, in view of the high prices they have been fetching?

Those which were saleable were put up for auction. It is only those which are not saleable and which are in such a bad condition that they have to be broken down, which are broken down.

Will the Minister say what he means? The Question says, "broken up," and he says "broken down." Is he thinking of His Majesty's Government?

asked the Minister of Supply whether he has any statement to make concerning his conversations with the American representative, Mr. Wilson.

At the meeting which I attended with a number of my colleagues, we discussed with Mr. Wilson how best our two countries could co-operate to ensure that the United Kingdom received sufficient raw materials and machine tools to enable it to carry out its re-armament programme and maintain essential civil production. Mr. Wilson said he would do all he could to further United States co-operation with us in both these tasks.

Would the right hon. Gentleman add to that statement by saying whether Mr. Wilson said anything as to the effect which this American aid to ourselves and the general gearing up of the American war potential would have on that country's production of civilian goods?

I think it would be unwise if I went into too much detail and repeated our conversations. I have given the effect of the discussion in my answer.

asked the Minister of Supply in view of the shortage of scrap iron, whether he is aware of the large quantity of scrap available from obsolete plant in industry awaiting collection as scrap; and what steps he is taking to stimulate merchants in tapping this source.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the replies which I gave to the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale (Mr. Erroll) on 19th February last and to the hon. and learned Member for Brigg (Mr. E. L. Mallalieu) on 23rd April. Special attention is being given to securing as much scrap as possible from this source.

In view of the undertaking which my right hon. Friend gave in the House to the effect that he would consider subsidising the recovery of such things as tramlines, would he consider giving similar help in the recovery of the scrap described in this Question, in view of the fact that the present controlled price of scrap makes it uneconomic to recover some of this material?

I cannot accept that. The information that I have is that the present price is reasonable, and that any increase in the price of scrap would not bring in any more. In special circumstances, such as the raising of tramlines, the industry has agreed to make some special arrangement, but I would not like to expand that very far.

Will the Minister consult the Iron and Steel Federation, who feel that the present prices do not sufficiently remunerate the scrap merchants for collecting the metal?

Yes, Sir. I am in consultation with the Federation, and they agree that the present basic price should not be raised.

Can the Minister say to what extent local authorities are participating in this scrap iron drive, in view of the fact that nearly all of them now have organisations for salvaging waste paper, to which, of course, scrap iron is complementary?

Yes, Sir, the local authorities are being consulted by those responsible, for the scrap iron campaign.

The Midlands area, as I think the right hon. Gentleman knows, is a prolific source of this scrap, and would he consider allowing a larger proportion of it to be used locally, thus avoiding the charges involved in its transportation?

I would like to consider with those responsible whether that is feasible.

asked the Minister of Supply whether his regulations entail the procurement from his Department of a permit for the erection of an iron railing to fence in a field of about nine acres; and, in view of the scarcity if iron, what policy he follows with regard to its use for such purposes.

No, Sir. At present, only the distribution of sheet steel and tinplate is controlled. Consideration is being given to possible arrangements for controlling distribution of general steel.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that in this particular case, of which he has already had details, it is rather a shocking thing that iron railings should be used to close an open space very much needed by the local inhabitants?

That is a matter of opinion, and one for which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education, and, I understand, the Brighton Council, are responsible. My answer to the Question which the hon. Gentleman puts to me is that I have no responsibility and no control in the matter.

Can my right hon. Friend give any information about the latter part of his first answer, namely, the general distribution of steel supplies?

That matter is still being considered, and I propose to consult certain representatives of industry in the matter. I cannot say exactly when I can make an announcement, but it will certainly not be before Whitsun.

asked the Minister of Supply whether in view of the large number of machine tools required for defence and other essential purposes, he now has any further statement to make in assurance that they will be used to the best advantage.

Yes, Sir. I have consulted my Engineering and Machine Tool Advisory Councils about arrangements for ensuring that all machine tools on order are used to best advantage for the defence programme and other essential purposes. I am happy to say that my Department's proposals for this have been accepted by both machine tool users and manufacturers represented on these bodies. I would like to acknowledge the public spirit in which these proposals were received and to thank the machine tool industry for so willingly placing their services at my disposal. As the explanation of the arrangements is rather long. I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether, in view of recent reports that we are exporting rather a lot of machine tools to satellite countries, he will take that into account in the light of the statement he has just made?

I do not think that that report is accurate.

In view of the Minister's statement the other day that the credit for the acquisition of machine tools in America was due to the Government because of their policy of bulk buying, would he take this opportunity to tell the House that it was entirely a question of private enterprise co-operating with the Government?

We acknowledge the help and co-operation which we have received from private enterprise in this matter. I have never questioned that.

asked the Minister of National Insurance what arrangements are made for the payment of family allowances in respect of children placed under the care of local authorities, in local authority homes and foster homes, respectively.

Allowances are not payable for children committed by the courts to the care of a local authority or to an approved school or for children over whom a local authority has assumed parental rights. Other children in the care of local authorities are counted in the parent's family for allowances so long as the parents contribute at least 5s. a week towards the maintenance of each child.

asked the Minister of National Insurance (1) why applicants for National Assistance are assumed to receive a notional income in respect of any National Savings Certificates they may hold;

(2) whether she will now reduce the assumed rate of interest on any savings possessed by applicants for National Assistance, in view of the fact that the present assumed rates are much greater than the yield on trustee securities.

The treatment of capital for assistance purposes, which is prescribed by statute, does not turn on the interest actually earned: the material point is the extent to which the capital itself is to be regarded as available for the person's need.

In view of the fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will ignore interest on National Saving Certificates for the purposes of taxation, cannot this also be done for the purposes of computing National Assistance, and, if an element of capital spending is involved in this 5 and 10 per cent. interest rate, should not that be made quite clear?

I think the hon. Gentleman, would agree, if he thought a little more about this subject, that, although it is a good debating point, it would take more than 50 years for an old age pensioner with a capital of £400 to reduce it to £125.

asked the Minister of National Insurance when the National Insurance Advisory Committee will have completed their review of the time limits for claiming benefit under the National Insurance scheme; and whether she will publish their report.

I understand from the chairman of the Committee that their examination of this difficult question is now far advanced, but he cannot yet say when the report will be completed. I think I must await the report before deciding whether to publish it.

Can the Minister say whether this Committee are taking into consideration the special conditions obtaining where railwaymen are involved? They have to submit certificates to the railway authorities and those certificates have then to be returned and sent to the National Insurance authorities.

I cannot give an affirmative reply to that, but I will certainly bring the point to the attention of the Committee.

asked the Minister of National Insurance if, as the trade unions in Coventry have expressed strong opinions that the provisions of Section 13 (1) (a) and (b) of the National Insurance Act, 1946, cause hardship in many cases, she will reconsider her decision not to promote amending legislation.

I am afraid I cannot add to the answer given to my hon. Friend's Question on this subject on 9th April.

As my right hon. Friend was obviously misinformed when she gave that answer—because both the A.E.U. and the Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Unions have made representations on this—may I ask whether she will receive a deputation so that we may enlighten her on the matter, particularly as last month at Brighton—I quote her words—she said, "Legislation, however good, can always be improved"?

I think my hon. Friend underestimates the efficiency of my staff. I am never misinformed, at least by my staff. But I suggest that if my hon. Friend examines the figures more carefully she will find she has not been given the latest information. The number of claimants for benefits in this case which were initially disallowed were 393; the number since allowed is 351 and the number now under consideration is 35, which, I think, alters the position altogether. The terms of this Section are exactly the same today as they were in 1924, and although I accept the fact that she is vigilant on behalf of these men she must realise that the T.U.C. have also been vigilant since 1924 on their behalf.

Will my right hon. Friend reconsider her reply as the Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Unions and the A.E.U. in Coventry have made representations to the T.U.C.? They are not misinformed and I am not discussing one particular case. Will my right hon. Friend therefore receive a deputation, so that we can discuss it?

I am sure that if the industrial representatives of the men want to bring a deputation to me they will do so and I am quite prepared to receive them.

rose——

I should deprecate a mere man taking part in this.

asked the Minister of National Insurance if she will consider making arrangements whereby when a person goes to live abroad, and consequently is unable to obtain payment of his retirement pension, the pension can be paid into the person's bank or Post Office account in Britain, so that if he returns to this country he can draw on it, or if he dies without utilising it this money will form part of his estate.

Retirement pensions awarded in this country are payable in any part of His Majesty's Dominions. As regards other countries, I think this is a matter which is best dealt with on the basis of reciprocal agreements, a number of which are being negotiated at the present time.

In view of the fact that, as the right hon. Lady says, reciprocal arrangements have been made with some Dominion and foreign Governments to allow payment of these pensions abroad, would she not agree that it is only just that some arrangement should be made for people living in countries not so covered, in order that they can regain the contributions made under the scheme?

The hon. Lady has forgotten one important point, that without reciprocal arrangements we have no guarantee, unless we have another Government observing the matter for us, that the recipient is observing our regulations.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what are the conditions as regards age, health or other circumstances which are taken into consideration by local fuel officers in determining whether an extra ration of coal should be granted.

I would refer the hon. Member to a speech made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour on 19th February, when he gave a general account of the system which the local fuel overseers apply.

But that Minister is no longer there, is he? Would the right hon. Gentleman make sure that the parties concerned know what these rules are so that they may be equally interpreted with the same sympathy in different parts of the country? Will he publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT what the rules really are?

The rules have been built up by administrative practice over a long period and I think they are administered fairly in all parts of the country.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will take steps to see coal is available to merchants in the Sevenoaks area so that they can honour medical priority certificates.

As I have said in answer to earlier Questions, priority needs are given a first claim on house coal supplies. The current supplies to Sevenoaks, as to other areas, are being well maintained, and I am advised by the local fuel overseers in the Sevenoaks area that they know of no case in which a priority need has not been met. If, however, the hon. Member will let me have particulars of any case of hardship which he has in mind, I will cause inquiries to be made.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I shall be very happy to furnish him with a case of a husband and wife, both suffering from serious lung trouble, who have had no coal for a fortnight? Does he not think that local fuel overseers, before issuing a licence against a certificate, should find out whether coal is available?

If the overseer issues a permit and the coal is not supplied by the merchant, then the overseer will give immediate instructions that it should be supplied by another merchant. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will so advise his constituents.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is now in a position to state the total output the miners have produced in response to the Prime Minister's appeal some three months ago.

The average number of workers in the pits during the first four months of this year was 6,500 less than in the corresponding period a year ago. During January and February there was the worst epidemic of influenza for many years. In spite of these handicaps, the output of deep-mined coal was 3,078,000 tons more than were produced in the first four months of 1950. I am sure the House will agree that this result reflects great credit on the National Coal Board, on the divisional boards, and on the managements and men.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his answer contains conclusive evidence which gives the lie direct to statements made in certain quarters in January and February that the miners were not pulling their weight? Is he further aware that it reveals the active patriotism of British miners?

I am fully in agreement with my hon. Friend.

While agreeing very much with what the hon. Member for Ince (Mr. T. Brown) and the Minister have said about the miners, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his statement does not also conclusively show that it would have been much wiser to have made this appeal earlier and not to have waited until January, when the shortage was already causing hardship?

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a very important question and should not be a mere cockshy of party politics? Can he tell the House how much of this welcome increase is due to extra hard work on the part of the miners, how much is due to reorganisation by his Department, and how much is due to mechanisation, and so on?

I hope and believe that the investment programme of the Coal Board is giving constantly increasing results. Saturday working is certainly giving a large part of the additional coal; and the output per man shift, although it tends to be reduced by Saturday working because of the short shift, has, nevertheless, been 3 per cent. higher than last year.

Is it now necessary to import coal from America at £8 a ton, occupying a great part of our shipping space?

That is another question.

Will the right hon. Gentleman break these figures up into districts?

There is another Question on that on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the output of coal from each region separately in response to the Prime Minister's appeal some three months ago; and the output for the same period in 1950.

Every division, and, to the best of my knowledge, every area, has made its contribution to the increased output of deep mined coal which there has been this year. With my hon. Friend's permission, I will circulate the detailed figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the extent to which the miners have been able to fulfil their undertaking of an extra 3,000,000 tons of coal made to the Prime Minister.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I have made this afternoon to Question No. 20.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether extra supplies of household coal will be sold this summer at a price lower than in winter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if there is to be a reduction in the price of coal during the summer months.

As I said in answer to a Question last week, I have arranged that between now and the end of October the National Coal Board shall supply to the merchants about 800,000 tons more house coal than they received during the summer months last year. The merchants have undertaken that, if the coal is made available to them, they will build up their stocks by the end of October to 2½ million tons.

The National Coal Board, the Coal Merchants' Federation and the Co-operative Union have put forward proposals for lower summer prices, based on the scheme which worked so well last year. I am confident that these proposals will again encourage domestic users to stock more coal during the summer months, and thus to lighten the burden of distribution during the winter, when the weather is hard. I hope that the details of this year's scheme will shortly be announced.

Could the Minister say what arrangements are being made for those people who have very small storage space and, therefore, are not able to take advantage of this extra coal?

Merchants will be willing to repeat the pledge made last year that they will ensure that people without stocking space get priority in winter. I think they have fulfilled that pledge.

Can the Minister say whether his statement includes anthracite and domestic boiler fuel, because my Question does not mention domestic coal?

It does not include anthracite. I think there will be a little more anthracite, but not much.

Will this extra coal they are able to buy in winter be at summer prices, because that is the point?

No, Sir. Unfortunately, we cannot work it that way.

If there are increased stocks to be held by the merchants, will it be permissible for people without stocking capacity to have extra supplies next winter?

They will get the normal supply and if they need more they will be licensed to have it, if it is a case of hardship.

The Minister said he hoped that at the end of October stocks would be 2½ million tons. Can he say what the stock of domestic coal was in October last year?

It was 2,020,000 tons. This year, I hope it will be about 500,000 tons more.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in view of shortfalls of coal delivered to householders during the coal year just ended, and of shortfalls announced to come, he will adjust maximum permitted quantities in the various regions to a more realistic figure to mitigate sudden hardships and allow more accurate anticipation by merchants and consumers.

With respect, I do not think that a reduction in the maximum quantities of coal which householders may buy would have the advantages which the hon. Member suggests. On the contrary, I think it might cause some hardship and much additional administrative work.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in parts of the country, certainly in the Midlands, there is a current shortfall of 12 per cent. in maximum permitted quantities, and that the proposed increase of 800,000 tons to the home market will only mean a 3 per cent. increase? Is he further aware that maximum permitted quantities are regarded as a ration by the majority of the public, with automatic results of hardship and miscalculation?

The figure given by the hon. Member is the overall average. Many consumers take much less than the permitted quantity. Some take none at all. Therefore, merchants are able to give the full permitted quantity to many people who need it. If that were not the case, that is, if the permitted quantities were reduced, it would be necessary to issue hundreds of thousands more licences, which, I think, would cause a lot of trouble to no useful purpose.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether the domestic coal allocation applicable heretofore will be increased strictly pro-rata 30,000,00: 30,800,00 during the coal year 1951–52; and by how much, expressed in hundredweights, the domestic coal allocation for the north of the country and the south, respectively, will be increased in the coal year 1951–52.

The extra coal to be supplied this summer by the National Coal Board to the house coal market will be allocated to the various regions by the house coal distribution scheme, in consultation with the officers of my Department. The allocations will be fixed in the light of the requirements of the various regions for summer consumption, and of their capacity and need for building up their stocks during the summer months.

I cannot yet say how much coal can be given to the house coal market during the winter; I regret, therefore, that I am unable to make the calculations for which the hon. Gentleman has asked.

On a point of order. May I say, first of all, Sir, that there are two typographical errors in the Question? A nought has been left off both the figures, and the Question should read "30,000,000: 30,800,000 during the coal year 1951–52."

May I now ask my supplementary? Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what will be the effect of the increased allocation which is made upon last year's standard house coal allocation of 34 cwt. per annum in the south of the country, and 50 cwt. in the north? He must have an idea of approximately what the increase will be.

As I have said, I propose not to change the maximum permitted quantity.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in the case of horticulture the extra allocation of coal made in the summer cannot be taken up because horticulturists cannot afford to take it up? Will he bear that point in mind when making allocations to horticulturists, particularly in the southwest?

I will bear the point in mind.

Can we be told what difference it makes to the ratio if half a dozen noughts are added to the end of the figures in the Question?

I understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that he was proposing to look at this situation again later in the year. Would he bear in mind the possibility of increasing the amount that can be given to householders, because that is the fundamental cause of all the difficulties over the priority certificates and of most of the hardship?

I shall add as much as it is possible to give during the winter, but I cannot now say what that will be.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he has taken to secure adequate supplies of coke for domestic users for next winter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he proposes to arrange an increased supply of coke for domestic consumption, commensurate with the recently announced increase in allocation of household coal, during 1951–52; and what special facilities will be provided to householders for summer purchase of coke.

I hope that there will be rather more coke for the domestic market than there was a year ago. As the hon. Members know, the sale of coke is not now subject to restriction; this has led to certain difficulties, and I am now considering what measures can be taken to improve the distribution of the available supplies.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for many months past domestic consumers who are dependent upon coke for both cooking and heating have been suffering great inconvenience, particularly in the Eastern regions? Does his answer mean that he can hold out no hope of this awkward situation being improved by next winter?

Merchants have endeavoured to give priority to people who were entirely dependent on coke for cooking and heating. But in the absence of statutory restrictions, it does happen that some people build up large stocks and that others consequently get less than they need.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the acute hardship caused last winter when there were long queues of women and children at gas works trying to secure half cwts. of coke?

There was a lot more coke available last winter than there was the year before, but unfortunately the demand had increased even more.

They were not given any coal.

Would the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of Question No. 33, dealing with summer stocking?

I think that will have to be as it was last year. No new special arrangements will be made.

With reference to the right hon. Gentleman's statement that people have been building up large stocks of coke, is he aware that it is quite impossible even if anyone had wished to do so because the coke has not been available?

I am speaking of last summer, when some people took very large amounts.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether adequate supplies of coke are now available to meet all demands during the summer months; and if he will make a statement.

As I have said in answer to Questions Nos. 29 and 33, I hope that there will be rather more coke for the domestic user this summer than there was a year ago. I am arranging that industrial consumers shall receive the coke they need for current use during the summer months. In addition, I propose that, so far as the supply of the various qualities permits, supplies shall also be provided to enable them to build up their stocks by the end of October to an average of six to eight weeks' winter consumption.

I propose, further, to arrange that the Armed Forces, local authorities and essential non-industrial consumers, such as hospitals, schools and bakeries, shall be provided with enough coke to build up their stocks by the end of the summer to an average of 12 weeks' consumption.

Will the quality be a little better than what we are getting now, because it is very difficult to burn it properly in domestic boilers?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he can give an assurance that there are sufficient supplies of Group II fuel available to the public to maintain in service existing appliances designed for its use.

I regret that I have no statistics which would justify me in giving the hon. Member the assurances for which he asks.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Coal Utilisation Joint Council have been encouraging people to buy appliances which use this type of fuel, particularly anthracite? Is he satisfied that the supply will meet the increasing demand, especially in view of exports of anthracite?

I do not know how many appliances there are in use and I do not know what is their average requirement. I cannot, therefore, give the assurance which the hon. Member seeks.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how far the researches made by his Department establish whether the use of gas or electricity for cooking is the more economical in the use of coal; and what steps he is taking to encourage the more economical method.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I made to the hon. Member for Shrewsbury (Mr. Langford-Holt) on 9th April, when I gave him the results of research work done by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. I am at present discussing these complex problems with the chairmen of the national boards concerned.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, during the discussions, that the Electricity Authority are charging local authorities £15 per house per installation, if gas is used for cooking purposes, and that the charge to local authorities is reduced to £3 if no gas is used at all? As that is contrary to the national interest will he remember it during the negotiations?

Every nationalised board must adopt business principles in order to make its business pay, and the electricity and gas authorities have both been making money. The hon. Lady has raised a very difficult question on which I am at the moment engaged in consultation with the nationalised boards.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the system of charging for electricity, including the domestic two-part tariff, is calculated to encourage the consumption of electricity and, therefore, indirectly, the consumption of coal? Will he advise the Electricity Authority to use a system of charging which will encourage economy of coal while at the same time not relinquishing any profit that they can reasonably get?

The hon. Member will realise that before the Authority took over, a great variety of different tariffs were in operation all over the country. They have been endeavouring, more or less to standardise them, and they are now engaged in considering the principles of the long-term tariff policy which they should adopt. They are bearing in mind the very point which the hon. Member has raised. It is a most complex matter.

Will my right hon. Friend impress on the boards that the national interest must come before profit making, and that it is very much against the national interest to waste our fuel reserves and to import coal from America?

Yes, I have spoken in that sense with great force to the nationalised boards.

Does not the Minister realise that a great number of his hon. Friends will be shocked to learn that he proposes to allow the principles of cutthroat competition and waste of overhead expenditure in uneconomic advertising, which is a burden upon the nationalised boards?

I have just said that that is what I propose not to do.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what representations he has received from the Domestic Coal Consumers' Council on the quantity and quality of coal supplied to consumers; and what reply has been sent.

In March the Domestic Coal Consumers' Council told me that, in their view, there had not been enough house coal this winter to enable all domestic users to keep their homes reasonably warm. They urged on me that, in future, sufficient coal should be provides to allow domestic users to get the coal they want, up to the permitted quantities, together with extra coal authorised for special needs.

I discussed the matter with the Council on 2nd May; I told them of the extra provision of solid fuel made in 1950; of the further provision made for this summer; and of the greatly increased domestic use of electricity and gas. On the question of the quality of house coal, I would refer the hon. Lady to my reply to her Question on 19th March, to which I have nothing to add.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Domestic Coal Consumers' Council also gave that answer to the Housewives' League? I have the letter here. In view of the Council's answer, how can the right hon. Gentleman say that last year the scheme worked satisfactorily?

I have always said that we need more coal for the house coal market. This year we have increased output and cut exports very heavily in order to provide it.

Irrespective of the other demands on the coal supplies, will my right hon. Friend accept the responsibility of providing more domestic coal so as to avoid the hardship which took place last winter? Could we have a categorical answer?

I have already said three times this afternoon, that I am trying to do that.

In view of the very terse communication from the right hon. Gentleman to the National Coal Board, will he publish the Coal Board's answer to that communication in HANSARD.

I do not understand to which communication the hon. Lady refers.

In reply to one of my hon. Friends the right hon. Gentleman said he had communicated with the National Coal Board in very strong terms on the need for greater coal production. I want to know whether the Coal Board have replied to his communication.

In the answer to which the hon. Lady refers I was talking about the comparative efficiency of the use of coal in the form of electricity and the use of coal in the form of gas.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many applications have been received from coal merchants for compensation for replacement of bad quality coal; what was the total sum applied for; and the total amount paid.

The hon. Lady is no doubt referring to the procedure described in the annual reports of the National Coal Board whereby, in cases where complaints about quality of coal are well-founded, the Board give the merchants a price allowance which they can pass on to their customers. I am sure the hon. Lady will understand that, as these are day-to-day commercial transactions between the coal merchants and the National Coal Board, it would not be right for me to ask for the information she desires.

Am I to understand from that reply that the Minister has never measured the quality of coal supplied by coal merchants by inquiring how much compensation the merchants have had to pay to their customers? If I am right in my observation, I think the right hon. Gentleman has failed in his duty concerning the quality of coal.

Answer.

That is a hypothetical matter. The hon. Lady said, "If I am right in my observation," and so on. That is purely hypothetical.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how far the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Safety in Mines appointed in 1938 are now operative.

The Royal Commission made numerous recommendations on safety precautions in the mines; statutory effect has been or is being given to most of them by General Regulations made under the Coal Mines Act, 1911. Statutory effect has also been given or will shortly be given to most of their recommendations about management and the qualifications of officials by General Regulations made under the Coal Industry Act, 1949.

The Commission's recommendations on matters of administration have been carried out; for example, the Inspectorate of Mines has been re-organised. Numerous other recommendations, for example, those on dust suppression, the provision of pithead baths, the safety organisation, and other matters, are being voluntarily carried out by the National Coal Board.

As it appears to have taken a very long time to put all these recommendations into operation, could the right hon. Gentleman say what Government were in power when the Commission was set up, who was the Prime Minister and who was the Secretary for Mines?

It was a Conservative Government. They got the report, but they did not manage to pass any legislation.

Would the right hon. Gentleman, in fairness, bear in mind that a draft Bill based upon these recommendations had been prepared after most painstaking work by my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Captain Crookshank) and that it was to be my duty to introduce it if war had not broken out in 1939?

Yes, Sir, but we could not take up that Bill after the war because the conditions of the industry had changed, and they are still changing.

So that we may get the time factor clear, will the Minister tell us how long the conditions which gave rise to the Commission were in existence before the Commission was set up and what Governments were in office during that time?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the nature and composition of the advisory services, maintained or sponsored by his Department, to secure optimum industrial fuel utilisation and economy, with special reference to coal; whether reports are published periodically of the activities of such advisory services; and whether, in view of the urgent need for coal conservation, any expansion or re-organisation of these advisory services is now contemplated.

I am advised by a Central Fuel Efficiency Advisory Committee and by 12 regional committees; their members are prominent engineers, scientists and other experts. I have a service of fuel technicians to advise industry and to improve the standard of stoking in industrial plants; their numbers have been increased in the last few months from 117 to 144.

I have mobile testing units to measure the heat and power produced in industrial plants, and to detect waste; their numbers have been increased from four to 16 since September last. Educational courses in fuel technology have been provided. Reports of this work appear in the Board of Trade Journal; and in "Fuel Efficiency News," a monthly publication issued by my Ministry. Numerous textbooks and bulletins are also published. All these services are being expanded, as suitable experts can be found.

In view of the diverse character of the services to which the right hon. Gentleman refers, and the urgent need for impressing upon all industrial undertakings the requirement of the conservation of solid fuel, will he now consider the consolidation of these services and providing a wider measure of publicity for them?

I think the services are already consolidated by my Ministry. I am constantly encouraging publicity for them, both educational and by propaganda. I am glad to say that I am having the full co-operation of the F.B.I, and the trade associations.

Will the right hon. Gentleman change the title of the paper to which he referred from "Fuel Efficiency News" to "Fuel Inefficiency News"?

asked the Minister of Food the wholesale and retail price of fish over the last 12 months during the period of price control; and whether he will now reintroduce price control.

asked the Minister of Food if, in view of his undertakings dating from the time of the decontrol of fish prices to continue to keep these prices under review, he will now give the prices of fish landing, wholesale and retail for the last three months of control; and for the same period since.

The prices of fish at all stages of distribution during the last year of price control were set out in the schedules to the Fish (Maximum Prices) Order, 1948, S.I. No. 2610). I have sent copies of this Order to my hon. Friends. As regards the first hand wholesale and retail prices during the past three months, I am circulating a table in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

On the question of reintroducing price control I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann) on 2nd May. I am glad to state, however, that there were increased landings of fish last week, and landings today are again heavy. This has brought down prices generally and the average price of cod at Hull is now, in fact, below the level under control. Retail prices last week reflected this fall and our reports indicate that the prices of cod fillets and haddock are falling sharply towards the former control prices.

I do not know where the Parliamentary Secretary gets his information about falling prices, but if he will consult his wife and any housewives on this side of the House, he will find that prices have not fallen. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."] Will my hon. Friend now reintroduce price control of all types of fish as speedily as possible?

And weather control?

The prices upon which we rely are based on samples covering large numbers of towns in different parts of the country.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a report today that 700 tons of white fish were landed at a port last week, about two-thirds of which was from foreign boats? Can he explain how it is that whenever a Question is asked about the re-imposition of controls there is always a big landing and prices fall, which situation is reversed again immediately we forget all about it?

I can assure my hon. Friend that as far as my researches show there is no relationship between Questions and increased landings.

Will the hon. Gentleman inform his hon. Friends that as a result of landings by German trawlers last Saturday and this morning hundreds of tons of white fish have gone for manure?

Has my hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the statement on the front page of the "News Chronicle" this morning that very many tons of fish are to be destroyed because there is no way of getting the price which those who are bringing in the fish need? Is it not time that his Department had some machinery to prevent private enterprise from throwing fish back again into the sea or sending it for manure because they cannot get the price they require?

I have seen the report to which my hon. Friend draws my attention, but I have no further information.

Is my hon. Friend able to tell us that in all cases where the landing price of fish is low that is reflected in retail prices in the shops?

It is impossible to give an assurance in all cases because it is impossible to trace different parcels of fish, but general inquiries show that the average prices in the retail shops do reflect the average prices of landings.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that it is authoritatively stated in the Press today that in view of heavy landings it is impossible to pass on the reduction in price to the consumer? If we are to have what is called economic prices in times of glut and inflated prices in times of scarcity, is that not an obvious argument for the re-imposition of control?

As I have already informed the House, as far as our limited inquiries show retail prices at present are reaching about control prices.

In view of the supplementary questions which have been asked, can the Minister say whether any fish have been thrown back into the sea?

I have no further information, apart from that to which my attention has been drawn.

From the experience of many housewives in the country, and from a good deal of the ex-experience of the Ministry, would my hon. Friend not agree that the prices now running are very much more than they were last year when we had control? Has my hon. Friend given up all idea of controlling the prices of fish?

With regard to the latter part of that supplementary, this matter is still under review. With regard to the first part, if we have competitive retailing then we must expect price variations.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether there is any obstacle being placed by his Department in the way of Co-operative societies purchasing the fish and selling it at a lower price?

Would it help my hon. Friend to do a little tracing if I tell him that 1,000 cwt. were landed at Aberdeen on Saturday and realised 21s.—that is, 2d. per lb.? Would my hon. Friend try to trace what the housewife paid per lb. on Saturday?

Can my hon. Friend tell us where we can go to find this fish—[HON. MEMBERS: "The Savoy."] Those frequenting the Savoy do not care what it costs. Can my hon. Friend tell us where housewives can go to find the fish that is supposed to be cheaper than it was last week?

asked the Minister of Food whether he will now make a full statement of the steps taken by his Department, by diversion of supplies and otherwise, to relieve the threatened famine in the Province of Bihar.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the replies given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations to the hon. Members for Hornsey (Mr Gammans) and Jarrow (Mr. Fernyhough) on 5th and 19th April. The Government of India have since been informed that, notwithstanding our own need, we are prepared to agree to the deferment of repayment for the time being of the loan of 43,000 tons of wheat that we made in November last. We share in the feeling of sympathy for the people of India in their difficulty and would like to give more assistance if that were possible; but we are dependent for the greater part of our grain upon imported supplies, and the prospects for home-grown wheat this year are not good.

The answer was not very clearly audible. I understood my hon. Friend to say that every effort had been made, and I also understood him to refer me to a previous answer to two hon. Members. Would my hon. Friend realise that this effort the Government have made to assist in relieving famine is one which ought to have the widest possible publicity that the person who drafted this answer might have given all the information for publication in the Press, and the fullest news about the effort we have made, which has impaired, to some extent, our own economy? Would my hon. Friend accept the assurance that any further effort we can make will receive the fullest support of all hon. Members on this side?

Do I understand that the sum total of the help this country is able to give to India is to forgo the repayment of this loan of grain?

The help we gave was both the grain we diverted to India and the shipping we placed at India's disposal to ensure that other grain reached her in time.

I understood the hon. Gentleman to say we had lent 43,000 tons of wheat to India. Is the repayment of that loan to be in kind or in cash?