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Oral Answers To Questions

Volume 488: debated on Wednesday 30 May 1951

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Civil Aviation

Helicopter Services

1.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether the Birmingham-London helicopter service, to be inaugurated on 1st June, 1951, is to be regarded as an experimental and precursor service; how far plans are developed for linking Birmingham by helicopter service with Ringway, Manchester, and Speke, Liverpool; and when these further helicopter services will be introduced.

The Birmingham-London helicopter service will be primarily an experiment in single-engined helicopter operation, designed to gain the operational and commercial experience necessary for the successful economic development of the twin-engined helicopter. The service will also help to meet a public demand in the Midlands for air connections with Northolt and London Airports. No plans have been made for extending the service from Birmingham to Manchester and Liverpool.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that the triangle, Birmingham-Liverpool-Manchester, represents ideal routing for helicopter services; and, in view of the established airfields at these cities, can consideration be given to the inauguration of such a service as an adjunct to the Birmingham-London service?

Consideration could be given to that suggestion, but I do not think it is possible within the present budget with this particular aircraft.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider, at a later date no doubt, the inclusion of a service not only from London to the centre of Birmingham but also to the B.I.F. engineering section at Castle Bromwich for the economy of time of overseas buyers?

2.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether there are any technical or economic obstacles to the creation of helicopter landing grounds, erected as superstructures to such main railway stations as New Street or Snow Hill in Birmingham, or St. Pancras or Victoria in London, in order to obviate motor omnibus journeys from the centre of such cities as Birmingham and London to the present flying fields and consequent delays for passengers.

Without accepting the premise that the use for the helicopter mentioned in the last part of the Question would be economic or operationally feasible, we do not rule out the erection of superstructures over main railway stations. There are, however, constructional and other practical difficulties in adapting railway stations, and in this context we are bound to bear in mind the economic claims of other types of elevated site for helicopter landing grounds.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that, from a commercial point of view, helicopter internal and feeder services can hardly succeed in this country unless we can obviate the long delays involved in getting passengers from the centres of cities to the established airfields? Can the hon. Gentleman not use the waiting period for the development of helicopter twin-rotors to plan out these stations?

In connection with the provision of superstructures in London, will my hon. Friend give priority to a superstructure over Charing Cross station, as suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Dodds) recently? Will he also consult the Home Secretary with a view to exploring the possibility of using helicopter stations in connection with the Civil Defence organisation?

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that it would be much cheaper to put a superstructure over a railway station than to buy property in order to make a landing ground?

There are a number of arguments about the matter, and various suggestions are now being considered, including the scheme to which my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) referred.

3.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether, in view of the development of a twin-engined helicopter, he will now state the policy of His Majesty's Government in regard to the development of helicopter services between provincial cities in the United Kingdom, and London and certain main provincial cities.

Only one type of twin-engined helicopter is at present being built in the United Kingdom, and this has not yet flown. The policy of His Majesty's Government for the development of helicopter services is under consideration in the light of the recommendations of the First Report of the Inter-Departmental Helicopter Committee.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary assure the House that opposition from British Railways, owing to the possibility of their losing fare paying passengers, will not be allowed to impede or hinder this essential helicopter development?

In view of the favourable reports received about the progress of the twin-engined helicopter, the Bristol 173, can my hon. Friend give an assurance that steps are now being taken so that when it becomes a practical proposition there will be no undue delay in getting it into operation?

Following upon what the hon. Member has just said, can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether, so that any delay may be obviated, experiments for helicopter services are being carried out between islands as well as between centres such as London and Birmingham?

No experiments are being carried out specifically between islands, although we have carried out experiments in other parts of the country besides these two main cities.

Boac Employees (Redundancy)

4.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if, in the course of his investigation held recently into the redundancy of two ex-employees who gave information to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, West, when he obtained statements from British Overseas Airways Corporation, and from his Departmental officials, he at the same time took similar detailed statements from the two ex-employees of British Overseas Airways Corporation.

In view of the fact that my hon. Friend did not obtain information direct from the two ex-employees, as he did from officials of his Department and of the Corporation, can he really stand by his statement made in the House that a reasonable attempt has been made to see that justice has been done; and as an indication of his desire to see fair play in this matter would he set up an independent investigation into the whole thing as distinct from making his Departmental inquiries?

The answer to the second part of the question is "No, Sir," and the answer to the first part is "Yes, Sir."

In view of the extremely unsatisfactory nature of the reply, and as I feel that no real attempt has been made to see that justice has been done in this case, I give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

The only wording that is correct in these circumstances is: Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply I will raise the matter on the Adjournment. I think that I might point that out, because this has often been put wrongly. It is very unfair, supposing an hon. Member makes a lot of charges against a Minister and then says "I will raise the matter on the Adjournment," because the Minister then has no chance of answering the charges. It never has been the practice to do otherwise than say, "Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply I will raise the matter on the Adjournment." That is the correct and right way of doing it.

In the circumstances, would it be in order if I were to reply, although it is strictly—

Although it is strictly correct to say that I did not interview these men at the time, I did interview one of the men on the previous occasion, when the hon. Gentleman saw me about this matter. The second man did not wish to put anything before me.

Airway Control

5.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation what consideration has been given to the proposal that airway control shall be operated in clear weather, as well as during conditions of Instrument Flight Rules, in view of the mid-air collisions that have occurred in clear weather due to the glare from the sun; and if he will consider altering his recent regulations accordingly.

The feasibility of introducing full airway control in V.F.R. conditions was exhaustively considered, when the airways system was under discussion with all concerned, and for many reasons was not adopted. Compulsory air traffic control, irrespective of weather conditions, has, however, been introduced round the busier airports in the United Kingdom.

In the light of experience that has recently come before my hon. Friend, could he give some consideration to the suggestion that it would be in the interests of safety to have these same regulations applying during conditions of good visibility as apply in conditions of bad visibility?

No fresh evidence has come before my Department, but clearly this is a matter which we shall watch very carefully, and if necessary modifications will be made.

Are the Department experimenting with radar warning equipment in order to avoid any possible trouble, as envisaged in the Question?

Bristol Brabazon Aircraft

6.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation what proposals have been made, or are contemplated, by British European Airways for the taking over of the Bristol Brabazon aircraft for operation between London and Paris.

British European Airways Corporation have tentatively suggested that the Brabazon might be operated by them on routes of high traffic density. However, I am informed that a considerable amount of development work has still to be done before the first aircraft could be used on commercial services.

Will the hon. Gentleman allow any commercial concerns that wish to operate the aircraft on the service for which it was designed, the Transatlantic service, to have a reasonable chance of first option on the aircraft before anybody uses it for some totally different purpose?

Germany

Raw Material Exports

7.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what powers are possessed by the Allied High Commission to prevent the export of goods of strategic value from Western Germany to China.

17.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps are being taken to prevent the export of strategic raw materials from Western Germany to the Soviet zone.

Under the terms of the Revised Occupation Statute the Allied High Commission has full powers to prevent the export of goods of strategic value from Western Germany to China. The export of strategic materials from Western Germany to the Soviet zone is controlled through the medium of a centralised licensing system and by customs examination at the interzonal border, the German agencies concerned operating under policy direction from the Allied High Commission.

Have the High Commission power to control the export of materials from satellite countries through the port of Hamburg?

That is a somewhat different question. If my hon. Friend will be good enough to put it down I will do my best to answer it.

Is it not a fact that a great deal of steel has been exported from Western Germany to the Soviet zone; and are any steps being taken to stop this?

We are tightening up the machinery, which I hope will have good results.

Nazi Party

12.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any statement to make on the re-emergence of the Nazis in Germany, as the Socialist Reich Party, which polled nearly a quarter of a million votes in the Lower Saxony elections.

20.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the reappearance of the Nazi Party in Germany and the policy of His Majesty's Government in relation to this development.

10.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on the re-emergence of the Nazi Party in Western Germany.

I have noted with some concern the fact that the Socialist Reich Party, which is an organisation of definite neo-Nazi tendencies, polled over a quarter of a million votes in the provincial elections in Lower Saxony on 6th May. The Federal German Government and the Occupying Powers are fully alive to the dangers involved in this development. The Federal Government have announced their intention to take action to have the party declared unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court in accordance with the Basic Law, and thus to deprive it of the protection of that constitution which it seeks to undermine. Steps are being taken to set up the Constitutional Court as soon as possible.

I spoke to the Federal Chancellor on this question during my recent visit to Germany, and I have no reason to believe that the democratically elected Government of the Federal Republic are not fully capable of dealing with any internal threat to the constitutional order. However, we must not exaggerate the importance of this local success by a neo-Nazi group and must exercise a sense of proportion.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that at the week-end Eberhard Stern, one of Remer's associates in the new Nazi gang, said of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition, "Mr. Churchill is the greatest war criminal in the world"? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that while statements like that go unpunished in Germany we still have not beaten the Fascism we fought the last war to destroy?

I think the answer I have given is, in principle, sound from my hon. Friend's point of view, and I made that view very clear when I was in Germany. On the other hand, we must keep a sense of proportion in the matter, and, therefore, conduct ourselves accordingly.

Contrary to what was stated in the Minister's first reply, has not experience shown that the democratic forces in Germany are incapable of dealing with this particular menace and that, to enable them to do so, it is essential for them to have outside assistance from us?

I do not think that would be a fair assessment. I would much sooner the German authorities themselves dealt with it than that we should, because I think, provided they take the proper action—as I am disposed to think they will—it would be more effective than if foreign Powers intervened.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that even bad ideas cannot be abolished by declaring them to be unconstitutional? Further, does he realise that the policy of re-arming Germany on the basis that without doing so Western civilisation cannot be defended from the Communists is not the best way of convincing Germans that Hitler was wrong?

That is a good effort. I could make an effective reply to my hon. Friend, but it would take so long that I am afraid Mr. Speaker would rule me out of order.

With reference to the original reply, can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House the name of any Socialist Party which has not neo-Nazi tendencies?

That is a very poor effort. The hon. Gentleman need go no further than the British Labour Party.

Does not the Minister agree that if the German authorities are to cope with any menacing situation that might arise from the existence of such parties in Germany, they are in an extremely invidious position through having as their only protection foreign occupation troops? Will he not consider the matter from that angle and discuss with the German authorities and our Allies the possibility of providing some German protection?

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend. His supplementary is, in part, a corrective to the tendentious question of my hon. Friend the Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. S. Silverman)

Foreign Secretary's Visit

21.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is his intention to make a statement on the results of his recent visit to Germany.

I undertook my recent visit to Germany with the idea of familiarising myself with the present situation and with current problems in that country. I wished also to make personal contact with the Federal Chancellor and other prominent figures in German public life, including the leader of the Social Democratic Party and representatives of the trades unions.

I also carried with me an invitation from His Majesty's Government to Dr. Adenauer to visit the United Kingdom during the summer, which I am glad to say he has accepted. I am convinced that this direct contact with German leaders and problems will be of great value to me in the future discharge of my duties as Foreign Secretary.

Youth Festival

24.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he intends to take to prevent young people from attending the Communist-inspired Youth Festival, to be held in Berlin from 5th to 19th August.

So far as British youth are concerned I feel most reluctant to interfere with their freedom of action in such a matter. We can rely on their good sense. They are not easily duped, and some in fact have taken the sensible precaution of consulting the Foreign Office. Nevertheless, we have to consider the purpose of this Festival. It is sponsored by the Communist-controlled youth organisations, the World Federation of Democratic Youth and the International Union of Students, which are in the nature of Fifth Column bodies. Its avowed aim is to support the campaign for peace on Soviet terms. I have therefore agreed to consultations between the three Western High Commissioners in Germany on ways and means of preventing this exploitation of young people to serve the aims of the Soviet Government.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware it is the intention of the Communist-controlled Festival Committee to charter the Polish ship "Batory" and carry them direct to Gdynia so that they do not pass through the Western zone?

That may be so, but on the face of it it does not sound as if I can do anything about it.

Is this proposal to make the Iron Curtain a two-way affair intended to be limited to this particular instance, or is it to become the general policy of the Government?

We must consider each case on its merits, but I see no reason why we should be parties to a policy which assists in the development and influence of Fifth Column activities.

Would the right hon. Gentleman try to be consistent in this matter and explain to the House how it came about that passports were issued to leading members of the Communist Party to confer with the Communists in Peking some time ago?

Indonesia (British Property)

8.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what representations he has made to the Government of Indonesia regarding the security of British properties in that country.

His Majesty's Ambassador at Djakarta is in constant touch with the Indonesian Government and with the local representatives of the British plantation companies regarding security on the estates. He reports that, although the state of internal security is still far from satisfactory, this is not due to lack of effort on the part of the Government. I am satisfied that this is, in fact, the case and that the Indonesian Government have taken and are continuing to take such measures as are within their power to break up the armed gangs which have been terrorising certain districts.

Antarctic (Argentine Bases)

9.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the official announcement by the Argentine Government that Argentina has established a fifth naval base in the Antarctic, at Punta Proa in Graham Land; and what action is being taken by His Majesty's Government to resist this further invasion of British territory.

Yes, Sir. His Majesty's Government have protested locally and through the diplomatic channel. As regards the general policy of His Majesty's Government towards this dispute, I have nothing to add to the statement made on 23rd April.

Is it not clear that the Government are establishing an extremely dangerous precedent by their mishandling of this matter; and is it any wonder that the Government's failure to react strongly to this challenge has been a direct invitation to other nations to challenge us in vital matters in other parts of the world?

This is a most remarkable series of assertions, assumptions and propaganda statements. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer the question."] That is what I am doing. Even a Minister is entitled to be heard. His Majesty's Government have asserted and are maintaining the rights of this country.

When the right hon. Gentleman was Home Secretary during the war, if somebody had invaded his house, would he not have chucked them out? Why should he not do the same with the Argentine who are improperly occupying British territory?

When I was Home Secretary I claimed no more rights for myself than for any other citizen.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say what the terms of the protest were, and how they were delivered locally?

Will my right hon. Friend resist these continual efforts on the part of the Opposition to start more wars?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Anglo-Turkish Relations

11.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on British-Turkish relations, with particular reference to economic co-operation and defence.

As the answer is inevitably long, I will with permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In view of Turkey's great value as an outlying bastion of Western defence, would the Foreign Secretary at least give the House an undertaking that we are doing all we can to bring Turkey into association with us in the defence of Western Union and of the Middle East?

That matter is under consideration. It is a question of what is the best way to do it. I think I can give the hon. Gentleman the answer that in spirit I agree with what he has said.

Will the Foreign Secretary bear in mind that in this matter time is of the utmost value?

Following is the answer:

Economic relations between Turkey and the United Kingdom are governed directly by the Treaty of Commerce and Navigation of 1930, as amended by the Trade and Payments Agreement between the two governments of 1940. Furthermore, both countries are members of the Organisation for European Economic Cooperation and of the European Payments Union, and are contracting parties to the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. They co-operate fully within these organisations, and a mutually satisfactory agreement on tariffs has recently been concluded between the United Kingdom and Turkey.

The defence of Turkey is a matter of vital concern to His Majesty's Government, and our two countries already have close ties in the defence field. First, as Turkey's ally, the United Kingdom is bound by the Anglo-Turkish Treaty of 1939, to go to her assistance if she is attacked. Secondly, the United Kingdom is, by a decision of the North Atlantic Council, associated with Turkey in such aspects of N.A.T.O. military planning as concern the defence of the Mediterranean. Thirdly, by reason of her concern with defence in the Middle East, the United Kingdom has a special interest in collaborating with Turkey in the defence of that area. As the House will recall, General Robertson, the Commander-in-Chief, Middle East Land Forces, recently visited Turkey and had conversations with the Turkish General Staff for that purpose.

There is now a general feeling in Turkey, and in some other quarters, that existing defence arrangements are not enough and that there is need for Turkey to receive a further guarantee of her security and to be associated more closely than she is at present with the defence of the West. His Majesty's Government well understand and fully share Turkish feeling in this matter. We know well the highlighting quality of the Turkish soldier. We have watched with admiration the courage and sturdy endurance of the Turkish contingent in Korea. We shall support and gladly welcome a reinforcement of the defence ties between Turkey and the Western Allies.

The only question is how this can best be done. This question raises complicated military and other problems which concern not only Europe but also the Middle East. There has been a proposal that Turkey and Greece should become full members of the North Atlantic Treaty. His Majesty's Government would certainly not exclude this solution, but would first wish to be satisfied that it is agreed by all concerned to be in fact the best solution. In consultation with their Allies, they are at present examining the whole matter with the greatest sympathy. Whatever solution is finally agreed, His Majesty's Government are determined that it shall bring greater strength and security both to Turkey and to the West.

Foreign Ministers' Conference, Paris

13.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the present position of the Foreign Ministers' Deputies meeting in Paris.

Will the right hon. Gentleman send a letter to Mr. Stalin telling him that one cannot play lawn-tennis with a man who will not send the ball back?

Will not the Government give a lead towards ending this utter farce by withdrawing the British representative?

Not at the moment, anyway. I think that would be unwise. If it is possible for the Four-Power Conference to come off, I should very much like it to do so.

Korea

Refugees

14.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs who is the official of the United Nations in Korea responsible for refugees within the territory held by United Nations' Forces; and what is the number of the refugees in question.

Responsibility for refugees within the territory held by United Nations' Forces in Korea rests with the Chief of the United Nations Civil Assistance Command. With regard to the second part of the Question, I have no information to add to that given to the House on 18th April.

Gloucestershire Regiment (Usa Citation)

15.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he has yet conveyed to the President of the United States of America the appreciation of His Majesty's Government of the citation conferred by the President upon the Gloucestershire Regiment for gallantry in Korea.

His Majesty's Ambassador in Washington has conveyed a message expressing the appreciation felt in this country at the gesture of the President of the United States.

Military Operations

48.

asked the Minister of Defence when he proposes to make his next statement regarding the military situation as it affects British Forces in Korea.

As one who originally asked for these statements to be made, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to convey to his right hon. Friend the need for making these periodic statements more frequently, in view of the scale of operations in Korea? Even with our participation in them, we get far less information than we used to get in the days of the frontier wars in India. It is very necessary that the House should have a statement at least every fortnight.

I am sure my right hon. Friend will see the noble Lord's remarks in HANSARD.

Will my right hon. Friend recommend to the Minister of Defence the need for presenting some picture of how the civilians in Korea have suffered as a result of the war? Is he aware of a statement made by the secretary of the relief organisation of U.N.O. in Korea that one million civilians have been killed and that there are three million refugees? Will my right hon. Friend ask the Minister of Defence for a full picture of the terrible state of affairs in Korea?

Japan

British Compensation Claims

16.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how far the working draft of the peace treaty with Japan which has been prepared by His Majesty's Government includes provision for meeting the claims of British civilians for compensation for property seized in the Far East, including Burma.

18.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he now proposes to take with regard to the claim of the British Far Eastern prisoners of war for compensation from the Japanese.

I hope to be in a position to make a further statement in two or three weeks' time.

Peace Treaty

19.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is now in a position to give any further information with regard to the Japanese peace treaty.

Yugoslavia (Greek Children)

22.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reports he receives from the United Nations Organisation about the return of Greek children from Yugoslavia; whether the Red Cross Societies desire any further help from the United Nations Organisation or from the Member States; how many children have now been repatriated; and how many now await repatriation.

The whole question of the repatriation of Greek children from the countries to which they have been taken is being handled on behalf of the United Nations by the International Red Cross which, in turn, has entrusted operations in Yugoslavia to the Swedish Red Cross. I have no information that any request for further assistance has been made to the United Nations or to Member States. I understand that about 300 children have now been repatriated from Yugoslavia, but I am unaware how many remain to be repatriated to Greece. This is a matter which the Swedish Red Cross are still investigating.

Are His Majesty's Government convinced that they have done everything possible to cause useful activity by all the organisations and authorities concerned, and, secondly, are they convinced that all these authorities and organisations are, in fact, doing everything that can be done?

We are certainly doing all we can. I think that the organisations concerned are also doing all they can, and my own impression is that the Yugoslav Government are perfectly genuine in their wish to handle this problem sympathetically.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say to what extent difficulties have arisen in tracing and identifying the parents in Greece of the children in Yugoslavia?

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned an important point. It is, of course, one of the major difficulties of the situation.

Can the Minister say whether efforts are still proceeding to try and repatriate children in other countries in Eastern Europe and Greece?

That is a question which would have to be put down on the Order Paper.

Albania (British Claim)

23.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs the date of the last communication addressed to, and received from, the Albanian Government in respect of the award in connection with the mining of the British destroyers in the Corfu Channel in 1946.

In a note dated 25th January, 1951, the British agent in the Corfu case informed the agent in Paris of the Albanian Government that the Albanian offer of £40,000 in respect of the British claim arising out of the Corfu Channel incident was unworthy of consideration. The Albanian Government have not replied.

Is the right hon. Gentleman going to do anything about it? Is it not an absolute scandal that four and a half years ago many British sailors were killed and that up to now we have had no recognition of any kind whatsoever of the loss?

We submitted to the House a White Paper on this matter. If the hon. Gentleman has any concrete suggestions, perhaps he will put them down.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider throwing a bit of concrete at the Albanian Government?

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will be able to give the House some real information on this matter, and whether he does not think it extremely unworthy to try to reply with a "What would you do chum?" technique to a question of this nature?

It is an old and perfectly legitimate technique which previous Governments have followed. [An HON. MEMBER: "Not by a Foreign Secretary."] Yes it has. I will find a quotation for hon. Members opposite ready for next time. Inevitably that is so, and I do not think the answer was unreasonable.

Can I have an answer to the first part of my Question? [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] Members opposite do not' care how many sailors were drowned.

Malaya And Singapore

Broadcasts

26.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what increase in the hours Radio Malaya is on the air has been brought about in the past six months.

Since last December there has been an increase of over 30 hours in Radio Malaya's weekly broadcasting time.

Radiologists

27.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many vacancies exist in Malaya for radiologists; and what steps he is taking to recruit them.

Two. These have been advertised in the medical Press and brought to the attention of any doctor with radiological interest and experience who has made inquiries about posts in the Colonial Service.

How does that tally with the information that I have been given that there are seven pieces of equipment at Ipoh and not even a part-time radiologist? Will he look into that?

Colonial Service (Vacancies)

28.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many vacancies exist in the Colonial Service in Singapore and Malaya; and what measures he is taking to bring about an increase in recruitment.

There are 530 vacancies in all Departments of the Governments of the Federation of Malaya and Singapore to be filled from this country, not all of which however require to be filled immediately and of which 175 have been newly notified this year. Posts filled so far this year total 250. Special measures taken include extensive advertising and approaches to Government Departments and to the home police forces for assistance, and to a number of colonial Governments with a view to facilitating transfer of serving officers to Malaya. Salaries have been revised and special terms for short-term contract appointments arranged.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that this grave shortage of civil servants in Malaya is throwing a terrific strain on those carrying out their duties there? Will he try and take on for a short term ex-officers, even men in their fifties, and also approach the Dominion Governments to try and get suitable men?

How many of these vacancies relate to the administrative service and how many to the technical service?

Squatters

29.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what has been done up to date to settle squatters in Malay; and what has been the cost.

On April 30th about 220,000 squatters had been resettled or regrouped, about half the total number to be dealt with. Expenditure to that date was 27 million Straits dollars, excluding the cost of new police stations and administrative overheads. Resettlement of squatters is just about complete in the Southern States, which have priority under the Briggs Plan. A parallel operation to resettlement, namely, the regrouping of estate labour, is proceeding concurrently.

Conscription

39.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the system of conscription which is to operate in the call-up in Malaya.

All males between the ages of 18 and 24 are liable for compulsory service, but it is only intended to call up about 20,000. After registration, a list of selected persons is compiled by the Comptroller of Manpower and these men are then interviewed by State boards. Those selected are directed into service for a period of two years, normally in the regular police or the special constabulary.

Are we to understand that the Malays, the Chinese and the Tamils are to come under the Conscription Act, and could the Minister let us know if these men also had a vote at the recent elections?

Could my hon. Friend say on what basis the 20,000 are to be selected, since apparently conscription applies to all?

41.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps he has taken, in consultation with the Governments of the Federation of Malaya and Singapore, to ensure that no one between the call-up age of 18 to 21 years who leaves Malaya and Singapore will receive a permit to return; and if he will make a statement on it.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to the hon. Member for Hornsey (Mr. Gammans) on 21st February.

Would the Undersecretary inform us what action he intends to take with Chinese living in Malaya who leave Malaya and go to China for a few years in order to avoid their obligations under the Conscription Act?

Labour Ordinance

40.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has given consideration to the revised labour code for Singapore; and when he proposes to introduce it.

A revised labour ordinance is in course of preparation in Singapore, but it is not possible to say at this stage when legislation will be laid before the Legislative Council.

Is the Minister aware that a revision of the labour code both for Singapore and the Federation of Malaya is long overdue, and will he hasten its publication and place a copy in the Library so that Members can see it?

The groundwork has been completed, but further consultations are still necessary.

Police

42.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what arrangements exist for accommodation for police lieutenants in the Malayan police force recruited from this country.

In large towns police lieutenants normally live in messes in Government buildings or buildings hired by Government. At outstations many police lieutenants live in bungalows or other accommodation on rubber estates and tin mines. Others live in purely temporary accommodation.

43.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many police lieutenants in the Malayan police force have resigned or been returned to England during the past 12 months.

Seven police lieutenants have resigned, some to take up local employment. Sixteen have returned to England on discharge.

Colonial Development (Investments)

30.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, in view of the report by the chairman of the Colonial Development Corporation and of the restrictive elements in the Finance Bill which will tend to stop investment in colonial development, what action he proposes to take to finance large scale new development in the Colonies and dependencies.

My right hon. Friend does not agree with the implication in the Question that the report of the Colonial Development Corporation necessitates reconsideration of the means of financing colonial development. However material its contribution, it has always been realised that the Corporation could not itself provide all the capital required to enable colonial development to proceed as rapidly as is desired. His Majesty's Government will continue to give the fullest consideration to the requirements of the Colonial Territories for such capital. As regards the reference to the Finance Bill I would invite attention to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the Second Reading of the Bill.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that the statement made by his right hon. Friend does not in any way obviate the bad things that will arise from Clause 32 of the Finance Bill, which will get in the way of colonial development and of providing finance for that development?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that certain Colonies have granted an exemption from taxation for five years in order to encourage new business, and that under the Finance Bill as at present drafted any remission in the Colonies will be paid in Britain? Would he talk to the Chancellor about it?

Was the Secretary of State for the Colonies consulted before Clause 32 was put in the Finance Bill?

In view of the very great importance of this matter, is it really a fact that the full implications of this Clause on investments in the British Colonial Empire were considered by his Department, and is the Under-Secretary prepared to amplify that during the Committee stage of the Bill?

Is it not the case that the need for the Colonial Development Corporation was the paucity of private investment in the Colonies long before the Clauses of this year's Finance Bill were introduced? Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the cancellation of those Clauses will ensure that sufficient private capital will be forthcoming to make the Colonial Development Act no longer necesssary?

Grenada (Disturbances)

31, 32, and 33.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) whether any estimate has yet been made of the total financial loss sustained during the recent disturbances in Grenada; and what steps have been taken or are contemplated to assist those who suffered such loss;

(2) what steps have been taken since the recent disturbances in Grenada to strengthen and reorganise the island's police force;

(3) how many prosecutions have been initiated in respect of acts of violence committed during the recent disturbances in Grenada.

The strength of the Grenada police force has been increased and a deputy superintendent appointed. In addition, a proposal for the creation of a special police reserve is now being considered by the Legislative Council. Steps have been taken to secure a more effective distribution of the force, to improve its mobility and patrol arrangements, and to provide special training in dealing with disorders. Up to 19th May, there had been 27 prosecutions for acts of violence during the recent disturbances. These involved 57 persons, of whom 45 were convicted.

As regards Question No. 31, I would refer the hon. Member to statements made in reply to Questions on this subject on 4th and 11th April.

Is it not clear that the inability of the island's police force to cope with the situation which led to the employment of Service men is an added reason for pressing on with the integration of the services, particularly the police, in the West Indies? In respect of the last part of the Minister's reply to Question 31, would he agree that, to the extent that these losses were sustained as a result of the breakdown of authority in the island, there is a clear moral obligation upon the part of the authorities to make compensation to those who lost?

Will the Minister reconsider the decision not to issue a White Paper on these disturbances? Does he not think that in view of their prolonged and serious nature a White Paper would be extremely valuable?

The hon. Gentleman will probably remember that on the occasion of the earlier statements we asked for a full report on what had happened so that the House could consider all its implications which, of course, extend beyond the island itself. I should be obliged if the hon. Gentleman would see what he can do in this matter.

In reply to the earlier part of the question, my right hon. Friend's labour adviser is in the territories and we are awaiting full reports before deciding what further steps to take.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we have been awaiting this report for some months and we have shown every restraint? Surely the labour adviser could send a telegram or something of that sort?

It is much better to wait until we get the full information, so that we can consider every implication.

What steps are being taken to cure the disease underlying these disorders?

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us whether the ante-penultimate shaking of his head meant that His Majesty's Government take it for granted that there is no question of any compensation for any person injured in his personal property during these disturbances?

Ex gratia payments are under consideration, and there was no ante-penultimate shaking of the head.

Cameroons Development Corporation

34.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when he expects to have a report from the Governor of Nigeria regarding the dissatisfaction in the Cameroons Development Corporation resulting from the inefficient management, about which information has been given to him; what action is intended to be taken; and if he will make a statement of policy in regard to the future management of the Corporation.

My right hon. Friend has received from the Governor information on certain matters of detail raised by my hon. Friend which will be communicated to him by letter. On the question of policy, I invite my hon. Friend's attention to the reply which I gave him on 4th April. The Corporation is a statutory body, and questions relating to its management are for the Nigerian Government. The Governor is satisfied that no formal inquiry into its affairs is necessary.

How does my hon. Friend account for the fact that during the past three or four years over half the European staff have been dismissed or have resigned in disgust due to the opposition they have found to any constructive suggestions which they have put to the present Chairman, and could he go further in this matter, because if it is allowed to drift he will find that serious troubles will arise?

If my hon. Friend will await the communication from my right hon. Friend I think he will be satisfied.

Kenya

Hartwell Report

36.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what decision has been taken on the Hartwell Committee Report; and whether he will give an assurance that the Government at Kenya has no intention of introducing racial taxation for educational purposes.

No decision has yet been taken on the Hartwell Committee Report as a whole, though certain recommendations have been accepted and put into practice. I cannot therefore at the present stage make any statement in respect of the second part of the Question.

As the Minister says that certain parts have been accepted will he tell us whether this particular part has been accepted, because if it has he will appreciate that it will be regarded as a seriously retrograde step in colonial administration?

They do not include at this stage the introduction of racial taxation for educational purposes.

Glancy Report

37.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government of Kenya has now completed its discussions on the Glancy Report; and what decisions have been taken.

The Glancy Report has been discussed in the Legislative Council, but the main financial recommendations are still under consideration.

African Colonies (Minutes Of Meetings)

38.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether it is in accordance with precedent in the East and Central African Colonies for local or national government officials to require responsible African organisations to submit to them copies of minutes of their meetings and similar private records or correspondence.

Without knowing precisely what kind of organisation my hon. Friend has in mind, it is difficult to answer his Question. If he will give me further details I will do my best to provide the information he seeks.

Is not the Minister aware that at the request of his Department I have already given the full details in a letter at least a fortnight ago, and will he make an effort to give me a full reply to the Question?

St George's Day (Recognition)

45.

asked the Prime Minister what official recognition is given to St. George's Day.

It is the practice for St. George's Cross to be flown from many parish churches on St. George's Day, and there is nothing to prevent private persons flying flags if they so wish.

In view of the fact that we can fairly deduce from our history that St. George as the patron Saint is far more representative of the British character than St. Andrew, St. David or St. Patrick—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—would it not be quite proper for the Government to play a greater part in celebrating St. George's Day, and at least might not flags be flown from Government buildings?

That might be done. I gather that the adherence to particular saints is not universal in the British Islands. Much more importance is given, I think, to the question in Wales and in Scotland. There is no really great demand for celebrating St. George's Day, but there is no objection whatever to the flag being flown, although I should not wish to enter into any discussion on the valuation placed on saints by different sections of the population.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the most popular saint amongst Scots people in London is St. Pancras? Can my right hon. Friend not do something for him?

Will my right hon. Friend consider taking advantage of the availability of the Welsh dragon to enter the contest on this occasion?

Seriously, is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that St. Andrew's flag is flown on public buildings in Scotland and, as far as I know, St. David's flag is flown on public buildings in Wales? Cannot we do the same in this country?

I think there is no objection if there is any great demand for it. I have not up to the present been told of any great demand, and I do not think there is.

Armed Forces

Overseas Service Men (Postal Facilities)

47.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he has any further statement to make on the possibility of some form of concession on air mail parcels to Korea.

50.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will arrange for a uniform rate of postage on all letters to Service men overseas.

51.

asked the Minister of Defence if he is aware that the cost of sending a 4 lb. parcel by air to His Majesty's Forces overseas varies from 6s. 6d. to Germany and 22s. to Egypt to 63s. to the Far East; and if he will take immediate steps to initiate a flat rate up to this maximum weight for all Forces overseas, irrespective of where they may be stationed.

52.

asked the Minister of Defence if he will arrange for all letters addressed to men in Korea to be sent by air mail.

I have been asked to reply. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a full statement of the facilities already available for sending letters and parcels to and from Service men overseas, both by air and surface routes.

The House will see that the rates charged to Service men and their families are substantially lower than the ordinary postage rates. In fact, the subsidy involved is now running at a rate of between £800,000 and £900,000 a year. I cannot but suppose that the House will consider that expenditure approaching £1 million per annum of public money for this particular purpose is a not ungenerous provision.

The main concessions already in operation are as follows: First, as to letters. Forces letters—corresponding to civilian air letters—can be sent by air to the Forces anywhere in the world for 2½d. This compares with a rate of 6d. for civilians. In addition, men serving in the Korean theatre can send these Forces' letters home by air mail free of all charge.

Next, ordinary air mail letters can be sent to Service men at a cost of 6d. for 1½ oz., and 6d. for each additional ½ oz., as compared with a charge of 1s. 3d. per ½ oz. for civilians to, for example, Korea and Japan.

Again, ordinary letters sent via surface routes, or, in the case of Europe, by air, to Service men cost 2½d., for the first oz. as against 4d. for civilians, for many parts of the world.

Now I come to parcels. Hon. Members will see from the statement which I am circulating that postal packets—that is to say, parcels the contents of which can easily be inspected—up to 2 lb. in weight, can already be sent to Service men at 3d. per ½-oz. anywhere, including the Far East. This special rate for Service men's packets already involves, for example, a 24s. subsidy for a 2 lb. packet sent to Korea by this method.

The truth is that the sending of letters and parcels across the world by air is an extremely expensive business. I repeat that we are already spending a sum approaching £1 million a year to help Service men and their families in this respect, and I am bound to say that I think that if further substantial sums of public money could be made available for Service welfare, most people in a position to judge would say that there were other things on which we could spend the money to even better advantage. After all, it is perfectly possible to send parcels, in particular, by surface routes at a fraction of the cost of air mail. For example, one can send an 11-lb. parcel to a Service man in Korea for 3s. 6d. as against 10s. 3d. for a civilian.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to make it clear whether the regulations on air mail parcels he has just announced are the old regulations or whether they represent some new decision; and if they do not represent a new decision, whether the consideration of this matter, which his right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence said on 21st March that he was still giving, has yet been finalised?

No, Sir. This is not a decision, but I thought it wise to call attention to what is technically called a postal packet, which can be sent at these comparatively cheap rates to Korea, because I do not think that has always been fully realised. There is no new decision. The answer I have given represents the reconsideration of the matter which my right hon. Friend promised.

As it is no fault of the Service man that he happens to be serving on the other side of the world rather than in Germany, would it not be more sensible, sympathetic and humane to have a flat rate for all letters and parcels to all Service men overseas, regardless of where they happen to be carrying out their duties? Would it not be better to devote such sum as is inevitably entailed for this purpose in having a flat rate and thus not having different rates for different theatres?

Of course, that could be done but it would involve a very substantial increase in the charge to Germany, for example. On balance, I do not think any advantage would be gained.

Is the Minister aware that, in the first place, when letters were received by the Forces in Korea without an air mail letter form they were marked "Insufficiently stamped" when the man received them—without any notification to the people at home that unless they put a 6d. stamp on the letters they would be sent by sea? In one case of a letter for a man in Korea, that man waited for 21 days to hear news that a child had been born at his home, and that was because it was sent by sea mail. I appeal to the Minister to send by air mail—

If I understood that question, it was one of delay. I should have thought, as I have shown in these rates, that it is not an expensive matter to communicate by air to Korea by Forces letter.

Would my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of having a flat rate for parcels of up to 2 lbs. for Forces, irrespective of where they are

Following are the details:

POSTAGE RATES FOR CORRESPONDENCE AND PARCELS FROM THE U.K. TO H.M. FORCES OVERSEAS WITH CORRESPONDING CIVILIAN RATES
EUROPE

H.M. Forces

Civilians

BY AIR:
"All-up" services

Letters: not exceeding 1 oz.

2½d.4d.
each additional z.1d.2½d.

Postcards

2d.2½d.

Air Parcels

No special rates (See Civilians)Various rates according to destination. 1st lb. 2/9 to 5/3. Each add1. lb. 1/3 to 4/-
BY SURFACE ROUTE:

Parcels: not exceeding

2 lb1/32/6 to 5/-
3 lb1/32/6 to 7/-
7 lb2/34/3 to 7/-
11 lb3/66/3 to 9/6
22 lb5/69/9 to 15/6

Printed Papers:

Newspapers

and Periodicals

Other

Printed

Papers

Up to 2 oz.1d.1d.1½d.
Each additional oz.½d.½d.½d.

Small Packets

No special rate (See Civilians)Each 2 oz., 1½d. (Minimum charge, 7½d.)

OUTSIDE EUROPE
BY AIR:

Lightweight Forces Letters

2½d.

Air Letters, 6d.

letters:

M.E.

Malayaand Hongkong Per ½ oz.

JapanandKorea

Up to 1½ oz6d.
Each additional ½ oz.6d.6d.1/-1/3

Postcards

3d.3d.6d.7d.

Second Class Mail:

(Printed Papers—limit 6½ lb.)
(Small Packets)—limit 2 lb.)
Each ½ oz3d.3d.4d.5d.

Air Parcels

No concession: but packets up to 2 lb. may be sent as Small Packets in the Second Class Mail, or up to 4 lb. as Letters (see above concessionary rate).Various according to destination:
Examples:
Egypt 2/9 per ½ lb.
Malaya 8/9 per ½ lb.
Japan 9/6 per ½ lb. approx. (to be introduced shortly)
BY SURFACE ROUTE:

Printed Papers

As for Europe.As for Europe.

Small Packets

No concession.As for Europe.

Parcels

As for EuropeVarious according to destination:
Examples:
Up to:
3 lb.7 lb.11 lb22 lb.
Egypt3/-4/97/311/-
Malaya3/65/98/914/-
Japan4/66/38/9

stationed, because their families find this a very heavy item if they want to send a parcel week by week?

There again, I see the attraction of the averaging scheme. Of course, it would be attractive to soldiers in distant parts of the world, but I am afraid it would be very unattractive to soldiers in the nearer parts of the world.

POSTAGE RATES FOR CORRESPONDENCE AND PARCELS FROM H.M. FORCES OVERSEAS TO THE U.K.
KOREA
BY AIR:

Lightweight Forces Letters: free of postage from Korea.

Letters:

Up to 1 oz.2½d.
1½ oz.6d.
Each additional ½ oz.6d.

Postcards

2d.

Air Parcels

No concession
BY SURFACE ROUTE:

Letters:

Up to 1 oz1½d.
Each additional oz.1d.

Postcards

1d.

Printed Papers: (including newspapers and periodicals):

Up to 2 oz.1d.
Each additional 2 oz.½d.

Parcels: not exceeding

2 lb.1/3
3 lb.
7 lb.2/3
11 lb.3/6
22 lb.5/6
MALAYA
BY AIR:

Letters:

Up to 1 oz.10 cents
Each additional ½ oz.25 cents

Postcards

6 cents
BY SURFACE ROUTE:

Parcels:

Up to 3 lb.40 cents
7 lb.80 cents
11 lb.$1·20 cents
22 lb.$2·60 cents
EUROPE
BY AIR:

Letters:

Up to 1 oz.2½d.
1½ oz.6d.
More than 1½ oz. and up to2 oz.8d.
Each additional oz.3d.

Burial Arrangements

46.

asked the Minister of Defence what would be the cost to public funds of providing free transport for widows and parents to attend the burial of members of the three Services killed while on European service in time of peace.

It would cost about £18 to provide free transport for two relatives to attend the funeral of a member of the Forces who dies in Germany or Austria; rather more for certain other parts of Europe.

In view of the relatively trifling amount involved, will not the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the answer given by his right hon. Friend the other day and make a concession on these lines?

Of course, everybody in the House will feel great sympathy with the suggestion, but it is an inter-Service matter which could not be done for one Service alone. I think I should have to leave the matter of principle to the Minister of Defence.

On a point of order. The Question was put down, and appears on the Paper, to the Minister of Defence.

In his absence—and the House knows the cause of his absence—I have given a factual reply. On the question of whether the concession could be made, if it were made it would have to be on an inter-Service basis; that is the only point I am making.

Arising out of that answer, does the right hon. Gentleman mean that the matter has not yet been considered on an inter-Service basis, notwithstanding the fact that the Question was placed on the Order Paper to the Minister of Defence?

Of course, the matter can be considered on an inter-Service basis—[HON. MEMBERS: "Has it been considered?"] The Question has been answered. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] The facts asked for in the Question have been given. I have said that if any concession or alteration of principle were made it would have to be made on an inter-Service basis, and I think that another Question would have to be put down to my right hon. Friend. All I can do today is to adhere to the previous answer to which the hon. Gentleman has referred, given by my hon. Friend the then Under-Secretary of State.

Hm Submarine "Affray" (Search)

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper:

77.

—To ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what further information he has about the progress of the search for H.M. Submarine "Affray"; and whether any other submarine hulls have been identified during this search.

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to answer Question No. 77.

The Asdic search of the area of 1,000 square miles to which my hon. Friend referred in his statement of 9th May is now complete. Of a large number of contacts obtained, seven were sufficiently promising to be investigated by diving. Five of them have been so investigated, and diving on the other two will take place as soon as conditions permit. No submarine wrecks have been positively identified so far.

The divers are working at a depth of 200 feet, which is the limit of the normal diving suit. Even under the best conditions at slack water divers cannot be down on the contact for much more than a quarter of an hour because of the strength of the tide in this part of the Channel. Conditions are made even more difficult after heavy weather by mud and sand being disturbed. This reduces visibility to nothing and divers have to rely on touch to identify the wreck.

A further area five miles wide and covering the whole length of the southern limit of the original area is now being searched. When this is complete, it is intended to carry out a search to the north of the main area.

I am sure that the whole House and the country will be grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that statement. May I ask him if, in order to still a certain number of conjectures and doubts, he will make it clear, as I think it has not yet been made clear, whether the submarine on its passage down Channel was ordered to proceed at periscope depth or at a deeper depth, or whether she was ordered to carry out dummy attacks on merchant ships?

She was certainly not ordered to proceed at periscope depth, but she was actually undergoing war-time exercises, which meant, more or less, that she had to carry out functions such as would be the case in the event of war.

Is it the intention of the Admiralty at some appropriate moment to have an inquiry into this mysterious accident, and, if so, may it not be possible at some future date to give the House some information, even though the submarine is not found, as to the events preceding and leading up to the time when she disappeared from human contact?

I think it would be far better if we were to wait until such time as it may be possible to find the vessel itself.

I understood from what the hon. Gentleman said that the divers are not assisted by any means of artificial illumination. Do they have to proceed entirely by touch at some depths? Are they not provided with electric lamps?

I am afraid that is a little bit technical, but I think I can assure the hon. Gentleman that every possible device which divers can use is being used at the present time.

Has the possibility of a collision been so fully investigated as to include this possibility, that, in view of the possibility of her having made warlike manoeuvres in the vicinity of shipping, the submarine's upper works—periscope, standards, and so on—may have carried away—an event which may possibly not have been noticed at the time by the ship concerned? Have the Admiralty done anything about attempting to tally all the shipping that passed through that area at the time, and to ask that those ships should be examined for evidence of such a possibility when they dry dock on the next occasion?

I think it can be said that the view of the Admiralty is that there was no question of a collision taking place at all. We have had no evidence to that effect, and therefore the inquiries referred to have not arisen.