asked the Minister of Transport if he will consider instructing local authorities to paint bold white lines on main roads through London to assist drivers during fog.

I have carefully considered the suggestion of the hon. Member, but I do not think that the considerable expenditure involved would be justified.

Is the Minister aware that, with the removal of the tramway track, traffic congestion in South-East London will be worse, and if he considers that it would be too expensive to provide these white lines, would he at least consider leaving one tramway line on each side of the road as a guide to traffic during fog?

That is an interesting suggestion, but I should have to give it very careful thought.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will require increased luridity of tail-lamps on passenger and freight road vehicles, also private motor cars, motor-cycles, tricycles and bicycles; and the placing of these tail-lamps a minimum distance above ground level.

On a point of order. Before this Question is answered, could we be told in what dictionary the word "luridity" is to be found, so that we may ascertain what it means?

That is not a point of order.

The law requires that every vehicle on any road during the hours of darkness shall carry one lamp showing to the rear a red light visible from a reasonable distance. A maximum height but not a minimum height is prescribed. I have no power to prescribe the size or standard of brilliance of such lamps and new legislation would be necessary to enable me to do so. I have under consideration the desirability of changes in the law affecting these matters.

Would my hon. Friend bear in mind, during the course of his deliberations, that an increasing toll of road accidents is being caused by tail lamps set too low to the ground being covered with mud, with the result that other vehicles crash into them from the rear?

The question of luridity is clearly very important.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the dazzle caused at night by motor vehicles of which one headlight cannot be switched off on meeting another vehicle; and if he will introduce legislation to make such an arrangement compulsory.

I am not satisfied that there is any sufficient case for amending existing requirements in regard to headlights. The problem of dazzle has long been studied in this country and elsewhere, but no complete solution has yet been found.

Is it not common experience that where the system involves only the taking out of focus of the two bulbs of the headlamps, a substantial amount of dazzle remains, whereas when the system involves cutting off the offside headlight and dipping the near-side one, dazzle is considerably less? Surely it follows that less dazzle would mean fewer accidents.

My hon. Friend may know that new double-dipping equipment has recently been brought out which some people consider is very effective. The whole problem is very complex and I will certainly continue to study it very carefully.

Will my hon. Friend look on this matter as one of considerable urgency with a view to reducing the number of accidents.

Yes.

Will the Minister consider, as a temporary measure, asking manufacturers of headlamps to install less powerful headlights on cars, because they are far more powerful than they need be?

asked the Minister of Transport if he will, in the interests of public safety, make it obligatory for public service vehicles to carry headlights.

Public service vehicles do in practice carry headlamps. To make this compulsory, however, would not meet the real difficulty which is to define precisely how they should be used.

While thanking the Minister for all that he intends to do about Questions which have already been answered, may I ask if he will compel the use of up-to-date headlamps on service vehicles, and restrain the use of headlamps on those vehicles which already have them if they are not able to dip them, as they should do by Regulation?

There is a variety of Regulations dealing with this matter, but the point which the hon. Member has raised shows the complexity of the problem. I doubt if I should commit myself to any such proposal as that which he has made without giving it very careful thought.

In view of the fact that the Regulation demands that the headlight should have a dipper, is it not an offence for anyone to carry a headlight which cannot do what the Regulation says should be done?

I do not think that that is a question to which I should try to reply at this stage.

Will the Minister take note of the supplementary question which I put to him a few minutes ago, and which by some unaccountable oversight he omitted to answer, on the subject of headlights?

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will require a night driving test to be included in all future driving tests conducted before a driving licence is issued to motor and motor-cycle drivers.

I am afraid that it would be impracticable to require such a test for every applicant for a driving licence.

Why would it be impracticable? Is it not the fact that many persons are capable of driving in the day-time but, due to peculiarities of eyesight, are not so capable of driving at night, and that this is the cause of a large number of accidents?

One of the reasons why I suggested that it would be impracticable was, as perhaps the hon. Member realises, that in the north of Scotland, for example, there are many months in the year when there would be only half an hour of darkness in which to make such tests.

asked the Minister of Transport if, in view of the serious number of road accidents, he will now give fresh consideration to the need for imposing a driving test on all road vehicle drivers at intervals of not more than five years.

The suggestion made by my hon. and gallant Friend has been considered from time to time and I have given careful reconsideration to it. I do not think, however, that repeated driving tests would lead to a substantial reduction in the number of accidents.

While thanking the Minister for his sympathetic reply, may I ask him whether it is not a fact that a large number of drivers have never had a driving test, and that others, by reason of illness or advancing years, have become less competent? There is also a very strong case for relating the right to drive on the roads to capacity or to proneness to accidents, to which reference has been made.

The practical difficulties are very great. Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will remember the very formidable series of replies which he must give when he applies for the renewal of his driving licence.

asked the Minister of Transport the number of accidents that have taken place on the main road between Trentham, Stoke-on-Trent and Newcastle, during the years, 1949, 1950, 1951, respectively; and on what date his Department received a proposal for high-power mercury-vapour lighting on the road between Flash Lane and the Black Lion Hotel, Trent Vale.

Accidents involving death or personal injury on the length of road from Trentham Park to the south-eastern boundary of Newcastle amounted to 38, including 2 deaths, in 1949; 49, including 2 deaths, in 1950; and 46, including 4 deaths, in 1951.

The length of road referred to in the last part of the Question is part of a much longer stretch of road, about the lighting of which the council approached my divisional road engineer in December, 1948. Formal applications in respect of parts of the scheme were submitted in December, 1949, and December, 1950. Preliminary approval of the whole scheme, including the section referred to, was given by my Department in February, 1951, and final plans have now been submitted for agreement before tenders are invited.

In view of the relatively short length of this road and the fact that the local Member has been pressing for action for years, now that the seriousness of the situation has been proved can the Minister say who has been responsible for the delay? Secondly, will he agree to give super-priority to this proposal?

I confess that when I saw the details which I had to give in this reply, I was horrified by the delay that has been involved; but it has been a complicated question, and it has not only been my Department which has been involved in the difficulties. I could not commit myself to such a thing as super-priority at this stage for any particular scheme.

In view of the loss of life and the terrible tragedy, particularly among the working class who are forced to live along that main road, can we be told why the scheme cannot be given priority?

Unfortunately, there are similar problems all over the country. I assure the hon. Member, however, that the whole context of this matter is being very carefully studied.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will treat as a matter of urgency the proposals made by the City of Stoke-on-Trent for dealing with the dangerous part of the main road between Flash Lane and the Black Lion Hotel, Trent Vale, by the immediate provision of traffic signals at several points, and a reduction of the speed limit between the two serious danger points.

The Stoke-on-Trent City Council have made no such proposals to me, but I am investigating traffic condi tions on this road and will, of course, give careful consideration to any representations they may make.

asked the Minister of Transport if he has considered the application made by the City of Stoke-on-Trent for more pedestrian crossings to be allowed in the city; what decision he has come to; and what steps he is authorising to minimise the dangers on the roads in the city.

Yes, Sir. I have given this application very careful consideration and I am hoping to persuade the city council that it would be unwise to stripe as many crossings as they have asked for.

With regard to the last part of the Question, I am prepared to consider how far any improvement schemes submitted by the council can be authorised under the provision which, I hope, will be available for road safety schemes in 1952–53.

Is it correct that the city council have asked for 43 extra crossings? If so, is the Minister aware that a large number of residents in the area consider that that is the minimum number required?

Without looking very carefully at my notes and holding up proceedings, I should not like to say the exact number. I feel, however, that with some further discussion it should be possible to reach a satisfactory solution to this problem.

Has the Minister Oven special attention, as I think he promised to do, to the problem of school children crossing the road as they leave school? Does he remember that the authority were particularly aggrieved about this?

All these questions are being very fully kept in mind.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the substantial increase in road accidents last year, what proposals he has to make to improve road safety.

I hope that it will be possible to devote about £1½ million in the coming financial year to the improvement of road conditions at accident black spots. I have also under consideration with my colleagues arrangements for extending adult patrols and mobile police patrols. I hope to receive at an early date recommendations from the Committee on Road Safety for the improvement of the Highway Code and for reducing accidents involving motor cyclists.

All this should help, but I would most earnestly appeal to all road users to remember that it is on their careful, courteous and considerate behaviour that road safety must mainly depend.

Can the Minister strengthen his means of communication and consultation with local authorities, seeing that many of them feel that their advice about the number and siting of crossings, and so on, would be of the greatest value?

I feel that we try to get into the closest touch with local authorities. They are, of course, represented on the Road Safety Committee, of which my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary is Chairman. I am very anxious to get the best possible advice on the question of road safety.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the large number of accidents to children on the roads, he will issue a special short Highway Code for children in appropriate wording so that this can be available for them to be taught in schools and elsewhere.

I have considered the hon. Member's suggestion carefully, but am not convinced that such a publication would be useful. The present official Highway Code can readily be used for training children in road safety and, as the hon. Member is no doubt aware, two unofficial highway codes for children have been produced by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents.

As the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents has thought it advisable, may I ask whether the Minister considers they are reasonable people, anxious about safety? In the circumstances, is he not prepared to consider with the Minister of Education the publication of a very simple code, which might be learned by rote by school children so that accidents might be prevented?

I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman has seen the Royal Society's booklets, which I will send to him. I think they are very good. It is doubtful whether we should duplicate the number of Highway Codes.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will recommend the appointment of a Royal Commission to inquire into the incidence of accidents on the roads; and to suggest remedies for reducing their number.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to the right hon. Member for Rochester and Chatham (Mr. Bottomley), on 25th February, of which I am sending him a copy.

Will my hon. Friend given an assurance that he is leaving no stone unturned to reduce the number of accidents, and please consult experts who are free from all political influence?

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend my absolute assurance that I am treating this question of road accidents as one of the gravest questions we have to face, certainly in my Department.

Is the Minister aware that there is a need for co-ordination in Government Departments? The Road Safety Committee, which the hon. Gentleman said last week was handling the matter, cannot deal with that. It is only by focusing public attention on the whole of the matter by the appointment of a Royal Commission that that can be done.

Would the Minister say how far this problem is made worse by drivers being under the influence of drink when driving cars? If so, will he consider appointing a committee to advise him on special regulations for such persons?

I do not think that that arises out of this Question.

Has my hon. Friend considered getting, or is he getting, any information from the insurance companies on the incidence of accidents? There must be a great deal of information in their claims departments.

Perhaps my hon. Friend would put that question on the Order Paper. It is an important point.

asked the Minister of Transport when he next proposes to publish the report on road accidents.

I assume that my hon. Friend has in mind the publication of an analysis of the road accident statistics. I hope to publish an analysis of the 1951 figures in due course.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, but does he realise that if only he had published that analysis, most of the Questions he has had to answer today would never have been tabled?

That thought had crossed my mind.

asked the Minister of Transport how far road accidents have been abated since introduction of zebra crossings.

I regret that the trend in road accidents continues upwards, but it is much too early to draw from this any inference about zebra crossings. The introduction of these crossings has fundamentally altered the bases of comparison and no reliable statistical appreciation is practicable at this stage.

What trial period for zebra crossings is required to enable my hon. Friend to judge of their efficacy or otherwise?

There are two points. One is the question of the zebra crossings themselves, and the other is the question of their effect on road accidents as a whole. As regards the latter, it will be some time before statistical evidence could be anything like conclusive, if statistical evidence ever can be.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that the incidence of accidents is, if anything, growing, and that it is very essential to assist in making zebra crossings useful both by day and night? Is it not a very urgent matter that ought to be dealt with at once?

All these considerations are being looked at very urgently, and certain action is being taken. The Question I was answering was how far road accidents have been abated since the introduction of zebra crossings, which widens the subject very much from the point which the hon. Member was making.

Will my hon. Friend do all he can to stop pedestrians from hovering on zebra crossings? According to the dictionary, the word "hover" means to be in a state of indecision, which, it seems to me, is generally the case with most pedestrians approaching these crossings.

I did attempt, rather rashly, perhaps, to give some advice on that very subject last Thursday after the 9 p.m. news bulletin.

asked the Minister of Transport what action he is taking to establish zebra crossings in Milngavie, Dunbartonshire.

The initiative for establishing pedestrian crossings rests with local authorities. I have recently approved an amended scheme submitted to me by the county council, who are the appropriate authority for classified roads. I understand that the town council have not striped any crossings on the unclassified roads for which they are responsible.

Is the Minister aware that in this borough in Dunbartonshire there are two classified roads passing through—Strathbane Road and the Glasgow Road—over which hundreds of school children have to cross daily, and that the local authority, who have removed the crossings from these roads, claim that the responsibility is the Minister's and not theirs? Will he see immediately that the crossings are re-established, because the parents concerned are contemplating not sending their children to school until the crossings have been replaced?

As I said, I have recently approved an amended scheme. I am not aware that there is any outstanding difference of view between my divisional road engineer and the county council.

The amended scheme means that there is only one crossing, and not a crossing on these two roads. We want a zebra crossing on the Strathbane Road and on the Glasgow Road.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that in places where traffic is heavy some of the black and white crossings are already badly worn and the surface is uneven: and whether he will take steps to ensure that the standard of maintenance of these crossings is kept at an appropriate level.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer that I gave on 25th February to the hon. Member for Cheadle (Mr. Shepherd).

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that serious accidents could be prevented if these crossings were kept in proper order? Are local authorities being requested to deal with the matter?

Yes; in the answer to which I referred, I said:

"I am drawing the attention of local authorities to the need to keep the stripes in reasonable condition."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 25th February, 1952: Vol. 496, c. 78.]

We are also, of course, carrying out experiments to see if we can get a better and more lasting method of marking zebra crossings.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the greatly improved results which follow when pedestrian crossings are illuminated at night; and if he will endeavour to arrange for local authorities to agree upon a standard form of illumination and for this to be adopted throughout the whole country with all possible speed.

As my hon. and gallant Friend will be aware, experiments on the lighting of pedestrian crossings have recently been carried out. I have quite recently received a report on these experiments, but I shall need to study it very carefully before I can come to a conclusion.

is the Minister aware that there is some danger in encouraging pedestrians to use, in the daytime, a crossing which is almost invisible to motorists at night? Will he give special attention to what appears to be a highly successful experiment which has already been carried out?

I am very much aware of that problem. I am studying the report and hope to make a decision in a reasonable time.

Is my hon. Friend aware that these crossings have been in existence in America for many years and that there they have a system of lighting which can be seen at least a mile away? Will he go into that question?

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the confusion caused to motorists by the widely differing types of street lighting used in the areas of different local authorities; and if he will arrange for a conclusion to be arrived at as to which is the most effective type, with a view to its adoption throughout the country.

I have no strong evidence to show that differing types of street lighting cause confusion or that to standardise them would necessarily improve efficiency in lighting. Local lighting authorities are well aware of the recommendations made by the Departmental Committee on Street Lighting in 1935 and 1937 in favour of more uniform standards of illumination, and they have, with the encouragement of my Department, made considerable progress in this direction in spite of various difficulties.

Is the Minister aware that, notwithstanding what he has said, a drive across London brings one into the most extraordinary variety of lighting which has a somewhat confusing effect on motorists? Surely this is one of the cases where, although local independent action may be a good thing, uniformity has a great deal to be said for it.

Without going into a complex argument, I would say that there are disadvantages in absolute standardisation because streets are quite different—the colour of building materials and the height of buildings are different—but progress has been made towards reasonable standardisation of intensity of illumination.

asked the Minister of Transport if he has considered the dangerous conditions at the Thatched House cross-roads, Leytonstone, as detailed in the letter from Mr. H. C. Clissold, sent to him by the hon. Member for West Ham, North; and what action he proposes to take to eliminate this danger.

I have just had the signal installation at these cross-roads inspected. The equipment itself was found to be in satisfactory condition, but the working of the installation will be carefully watched over the next two weeks and the matter then further considered.

The Minister must have received the communication which I sent to him, and it will now be apparent to him that the trouble is that there are huge vans parked in front of the lights. Will he take some action to prevent the parking of vans within a specified distance of traffic lights?

That point will be looked at with many other matters arising out of this investigation.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the anxiety felt locally by the decision to remove children's road crossings in the borough of Oldbury, particularly the crossing outside Titford Road schools; and if he will consider favourably their reinstatement.

I am firmly convinced that where children have to cross busy roads on their way to and from school, adult patrols are the right answer and that uncontrolled pedestrian crossings can, for young children, be more of a danger than a safeguard. I will, of course, give close consideration to the representations which in this particular case have again been made to me.

In view of the representations which I have already made to the Minister on this matter, will he give special consideration, in view of the questionnaire signed by a thousand petitioners, to the restoration of the crossing outside the Titford Road school, and make it a controlled crossing?

I will certainly give very careful consideration to that problem. I know what a grave one it is.

asked the Minister of Transport when he expects to present to the House Her Majesty's Government's proposals for the future of the road haulage industry.

I am not yet in a position to add to the statement made by my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary on 12th November during the debate on the Address.

Could the Minister tell us when he expects to be able to advance this matter?

I cannot add to the statement I have just made.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of Her Majesty's Government's promised legislation on the subject of road haulage, how many road hauliers whose businesses were in process of being acquired when the present Government took office, have taken advantage of the offer to suspend the course of negotiations.

I am informed by the British Transport Commission that 63 of the 95 hauliers concerned accepted the Commission's offer of postponement of the vesting date for six months.

As the 63 operators were in a more favourable position than many thousands who have been either acquired or are being restricted to the 25-mile limit, can the Minister tell the House what steps he will take to bring this favourable position to an end?

That is another question which does not arise directly out of the Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Transport the aggregate sum of money represented by past and current licences issued by his Department for building, reconstructing, repairing or decorating accommodation for the office staff of the British Transport Commission and its various executives.

So far as it can be separately assessed, expenditure on building and reconstruction of offices mainly of an administrative nature by the Commission and its Executives, has been authorised to the amount of £697,871. This figure includes expenditure on offices of the Executives throughout the country. The figures include repairs and decoration incidental to the building or reconstruction, but other repairs and decoration by these undertakings do not require authorisation or licensing.

asked the Minister of Transport what undertakings were given by his Department with regard to their employment and pension rights when their terms of office expire in 1952 to the whole-time members of the Railway and London Transport Executives, who were previously chief officers of the main line railways and the London Passenger Transport Board, respectively.

There are seven such members in the two Executives named. In the case of four of them, who will not reach the age of 60 this year, their terms of appointment provided that if they were not reappointed, or offered reasonably comparable employment, they would be entitled to such compensation as may be payable under the Regulations made under Section 101 of the Transport Act, 1947.

In the case of the other three members, their terms of appointment provided that their appointment as members did not deprive them of any right to compensation which they may have under the Regulations.

Does that reply mean that in the event of these officers being re-employed by their former undertaking, those who have been promoted to follow them will be displaced?

The hon. Member should study my reply, which was a little complicated, I admit. I shall be grateful if he will do so.

asked the Minister of Transport what recommendations he has had from the Transport Users Consultative Committee for Scotland during 1951.

Under the Transport Act minutes and recommendations of the Transport Users Consultative Committee for Scotland, and those for area committees are required to be sent to the Central Transport Consultative Committee for Great Britain, and not to me.

The Central Committee pass on to me such recommendations of the other committees as they deem proper. They followed this course in the matter of proposed alterations in the Clyde steamer services which I had remitted to the Scottish Committee for consideration.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that due attention is paid to those recommendations when eventually they reach either his Department or the Transport Commission?

It is a little difficult to give a categorical reply to that, except to say that there is no evidence that proper attention is not paid to them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the recommendations made by this Committee was made by a Committee that had no representative on it of the Clyde area? I refer to the recommendation about the Clyde steamers.

I have noted that point.

asked the Minister of Transport if, in view of the fact that the permanent ways of the railway systems of this island should be made national assets owing to their use in both peace and war and should be maintained at national expense, he will consult the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with a view to introducing legislation to this effect.

No, Sir. I see no ground for such action.

Does the Minister realise that permanent way maintenance cost is the chief obstacle in the way of our railways being used as a really national service? Is the Minister anxious that the railways should be used as a national service, and if so, will he remove this obstacle?

The suggestion of the hon. and learned Member has been put forward on a good many occasions in the past. It has been studied very many times, and I do not think I can add to the reply I have given.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make regulations under Section 82 of the Transport Act, 1947, to provide for special railway freight charges for the Development Area of West Cumberland.

No, Sir. I do not think that it would be practicable to deal with this matter by regulations under Section 82 of the Transport Act. The issues involved are appropriate for consideration in connection with the Charges Scheme which will, in due course, govern railway rates. In the meantime, any question of reducing the basic rates to and from a particular area is one for the British Transport Commission and, in certain circumstances, for the Transport Tribunal.

Will the Minister reconsider this if I send him a memorandum on it, in view of our special geographical difficulties and the fact that West Cumberland is in a special category, being a Development Area?

I will certainly study the memorandum.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that there are other parts of Cumberland, besides the constituency of the hon. Member opposite, which find these railway charges very onerous, and will he consider the North-West of England as a whole?

In addition to Cumberland, there is the whole of the South-West area and Scotland.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the unsatisfactory state of some railway property revealed by the collapse of a footbridge at Bury Station on 19th January, he will examine the need for an increase in the capital investment programme of the railways.

I am advised that the collapse of the wooden footbridge at Bury cannot be ascribed to any limitation of the railway capital investment programme. In regard to the general question of restrictions on capital investment, the needs of the railways have been given very full consideration by H.M. Government in deciding on the proper allocation of available capital resources.

Is the Minister aware that this accident has caused widespread concern as revealing the antiquated nature of much railway property which the Railway Executive cannot deal with because of the limitations on its capital investment programme? Does he not agree that the railways ought to have an extremely high priority in capital investment in view of the deplorable state of the railways when the Railway Executive took them over?

I must confine myself to the limited application of the hon. Lady's Question, which was not a question of the capital investment involved, but the erosion of a number of wrought iron supports.

Does the Minister agree that the bridge was a very antiquated structure and of a kind which made its proper examination very difficult? Is it not part of the legacy of out-of-date equipment which ought to be modernised?

All of us realise, of course, the great need for increased capital investment in the railways. It is entirely a matter of relative priorities in a very difficult period.

Is it not a fact that the general deterioration of railway property is entirely due to nationalisation?

Did investigation show that the iron work could not be seen by the naked eye, as it was covered by woodwork, and that only when the woodwork was removed could the state of the iron be seen? If so, could arrangements be made to obviate that kind of thing in future?

I would need notice of the detail of that Question, but the fact is that improved methods of inspection of railway bridges have been introduced, and were introduced shortly before this accident took place, but unfortunately they had not been used on this particular bridge.

asked the Minister of Transport what capital expenditure he has authorised on the rebuilding scheme for Huskisson Goods Station, Liverpool; and if he has yet authorised a licence for the work.

An authorisation was issued on 5th February, 1952, for expenditure of £195,018 on the reconstruction of the Huskisson Goods Station, Liverpool.

asked the Minister of Transport what representations he has received from the railway trade unions about the dismissal of hundreds of skilled craftsmen from the railway workshops because of the shortage of raw materials, particularly steel, and about the effect on railway workshop efficiency of the break-up of the labour force; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this state of affairs.

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he is taking to secure a sufficient allocation of steel to enable the Transport Commission to proceed with necessary renewals of railway equipment and to prevent a further loss of skilled staff from the railway workshops.

In January the National Union of Railwaymen made representations to me in general terms on this subject. My colleagues and I are naturally concerned about the effect of shortages of raw materials on the efficiency of the railways and on railway staffs. I can assure the hon. Members that the Government fully appreciate the extent of the railways' needs and as soon as it is possible their supplies will be increased.

Does the Minister realise that the increasing inefficiency in the railway service is largely due to the shortage of steel precluding the Commission from bringing' up-to-date their rolling stock? The shortage of steel is causing the break-up of the qualified labour force which was got together to build rolling stock if they could get the steel.

I realise the serious consequences of the shortage of steel, but we have to remember that this applies to other industries as well. The railways are kept very fully in mind at all times.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the break-up of the skilled labour force will be greatly increased in Scotland by the deliberate closing of a century-old railway workshop in Kilmarnock? Will he look into this matter very quickly, because it will eventually affect the whole of Scotland?

The hon. Member will realise that under the 1947 Act, detailed decisions on individual works is a matter for the Transport Commission and the Railway Executive.

Does not the Minister realise that this is a matter of policy on centralisation which will affect not only one area but Scotland as well, and that he will be landed with a considerable amount of trouble on his shoulders if it is not looked into quickly?

The policy of centralisation is certainly not the fault of this Government.

If the hon. Gentleman is opposed to centralisation, why does he not do something about it?

The Minister cannot ride off in the way he has just done. Is he aware that what is wrong with railway workshops is cuts in the allocation of steel, not only in Scotland, but in this country as well, and that they are having to discharge hundreds of skilled men?

My previous reply was directed to the supplementary question from the hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross). I have said that we are very conscious indeed of the consequences of the shortage of steel for the railways, and the Government are determined to do what they can, in relation to other priorities, to meet the needs of the railways.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that more than 100,000 wagons still in use are about 40 years of age; that many passenger coaches and locomotives are of the same age; that their maintenance in service is inefficient; that the allocation of steel to the Railway Executive is insufficient to meet their day-to-day replacement needs; and what steps he is taking to see that additional supplies are made available.

Yes, Sir. We are fully aware of the railways' needs and are most concerned that they cannot at present be met, but steel supplies are so short that no users have all they need, even for essential purposes. While the railways' allocation of steel compares not unfavourably with the allocations for other essential uses, the urgent need to improve their allocation as soon as possible is fully recognised.

Is the Minister aware that as these vehicles continue to operate the standard of efficiency of the railways diminishes, that more steel is being allocated to certain other industries than is required, and that there will be repetitions of the kind of accident that occurred at Bury unless greater supplies of steel are allocated to the industry?

asked the Minister of Supply why 200 sacks of shaving brushes were declared by the storage depot at Byley, Middlewich, to be surplus to requirements; what was the price paid for these brushes; and what was the price realised at auction in November, 1951.

The articles referred to were declared surplus because shaving brushes are no longer issued to the Army. They were manufactured in India during the war and the cost cannot now be traced. They were sold by auction for £2,165.

asked the Minister of Supply if he will control the selling price of secondhand cars.

No, Sir. This would not be practicable.

I do not know if the right hon. Gentleman ever has time to go along St. Martin's Lane, but may I ask if he is aware that if he had gone along that lane in the past fortnight he would have seen in a showroom there a September, 1951, Ford Consul, mileage 500, selling for £1,475? Is he aware that the list price of that same car today, including Purchase Tax, is £717 1s. 1d., and does he agree that that should be be allowed?

I have not been for a walk along St. Martin's Lane, but I am quite ready to accompany the hon. Lady. As for her Question, I am advised that, short of engaging an army of inspectors at a very great expense, it would be quite impossible to devise a scheme which would not be open to wholesale evasion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I should be delighted to accept his invitation and that I hope it will not empty the showrooms along St. Martin's Lane? Does he know, further, that had he gone to these same showrooms in January he would have found there a November, 1951, Vauxhall, mileage 745, selling at £1,485, and that the selling price today, including tax, is £802?

It seems that the hon. Lady and I would have to go there regularly.

asked the Minister of Supply whether the recent criticisms of British jet engine development made by Sir Frank Whittle were made with his consent; and what steps he is taking to improve development.

Sir Frank Whittle no longer has any official connection with the Ministry of Supply. The first part of the Question does not, therefore, arise. With regard to the second part, I do not consider that his criticisms call for any changes in our development policy.

Is the Minister aware that Sir Frank Whittle has been offered a very highly paid post in the United States and is considering accepting it? Would he consider discussing the matter with Sir Frank both in order to go over the development programme and also in an attempt to retain the services of this distinguished scientist in this country?

I am well aware of the contribution which Sir Frank Whittle has made to British aircraft development. 'I he Ministry of Supply know his views on jet engine development. He is a strong advocate of the advantages of the centrifugal as opposed to the axial compressor system, but I do not think that we can discuss this technical matter at Question time.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that some motor car traders are refusing to return deposits when requested to do so by the depositors, and that some have been held since 1946 and amount to £40 or more; and if he will take powers to require the return of all deposits upon request.

I am aware of this problem and have discussed it with the representative associations of the motor industry. They inform me that they have decided to recommend their members to return deposits if requested, except in the case of high-priced cars or where the car is likely to be delivered at an early date.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I shall have much pleasure in giving him further information tonight on my Adjournment, and that I have the permission of my informant to disclose that Gordon Cars, Ltd., of Golders Green Road, are refusing to return deposits of £40 and more which have been made on these low-priced cars? Would he look into the matter?

On a point of order. The hon. Lady has indicated that she will be raising this matter on the Adjournment this evening. Is it therefore in order for her to continue to question the Minister?

The questions of the right hon. Lady are in order so far.

asked the Minister of Supply if he will re-employ retired skilled armament workers in view of the shortage of skilled labour in the ordnance factories.

Yes, Sir. We are already doing so. We welcome applications for employment from retired skilled workers, though we cannot, of course, guarantee that there will always be suitable vacancies for them.

Will the Minister consider recommending to the Minister of Labour that a register of these retired skilled workers should be kept at the employment exchanges, in order that some of them can be offered employment when it is available?

I will certainly draw the attention of my right hon. and learned Friend to that suggestion, but the point is that there is no unwillingness to employ these retired craftsmen. We would welcome more applications for re-employment.

asked the Minister of Supply whether, in view of the amount of redundant tram track available as scrap, he has yet come to any conclusion as to the possibility of reimbursing local authorities in regard to the difference in the value of scrap steel made available and the cost of reconditioning the highways concerned.

The iron and steel industry is giving financial assistance to local authorities in order to encourage the recovery of tram rails for scrap. The amount of financial assistance varies according to local circumstances.

Is the Minister aware that there is a certain amount of responsibility to be taken by him to force local authorities to lift these lines, as they are first-rate steel and would make a most valuable contribution to other production?

I do not think that "force" is quite the right word. I should not like to force the local authorities. The Ministry of Supply has no funds with which to subsidise the collection of scrap. It is done by the industry itself, which has already obtained tram rails from 11 different towns, and is hoping to collect something like 50,000 tons of steel scrap from these sources.