asked the Minister of Labour how many Italians are now working in British coalmines.

About 1,220.

Can the Minister say out of this number how many have not got jobs and how many of those it will be possible to switch over to agriculture?

The 1,220 to whom I have referred in my answer are those who are working in the mines already.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons are registered as unemployed at the Brixton employment exchange; and what the figure was on the corresponding date in 1951.

One thousand seven hundred and seven-three at 17th March. 1952, and 1,265 at 12th March, 1951.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that these figures show a disturbing trend which is manifesting itself all over the country? Is he also aware that, while people are prepared to make sacrifices for economic survival, growing unemployment is not a sacrifice which people generally will accept passively?

The hon. and gallant Gentleman will see from the figures which I have given the extent of the increase, and he will also no doubt have seen from the Press that, apart from the special and difficult case of the textile industry, there has not since February been any marked increase in unemployment.

Is this not a 50 per cent. increase over last year at this one exchange?

I ought to make it plain that one ought not to draw too many deductions either way from the figures of the Brixton employment exchange. If I may so put it, it is rather a dormitory area and one cannot get much of a picture from the figures of that exchange alone. That is why I referred to the national figures as well.

asked the Minister of Labour how many hours of waiting time have been paid for in Messrs. A. V. Roe's Empire Works, Failsworth, in the period of 28 days since the date of his last inquiry in February; and how many skilled workers have now left this factory to go into other industries.

I regret the information is not available.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman keep a constant eye on this matter and draw a few economic lessons from the information which I have given him?

I will, Sir.

If there is waiting time at Avro's factory, is it not because orders were not placed in sufficient time, probably 12 months ago, to keep it sufficiently employed?

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in the count of the number of persons partially unemployed taken by his Department, the count includes only those persons who are temporarily stopped on the day of the count or whether it includes all persons temporarily stopped at any time during the week preceding.

The count includes only those persons who are temporarily stopped on the day of the count, that is, on the Monday.

I am sure that the right hon. and learned Gentleman, whose attention has been called to this matter before, will now realise that this gives a wholly misleading impression. Clearly, as most firms work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, we have not got the figures of the partial unemployment at all?

The difficulty is that, from a survey of the country as a whole, I find that Monday has an effect in one place which it does not have in another, and if I took Friday or some other day I should find exactly the same problem in getting a complete return. What happens is that once a quarter I get a complete week's return on another basis which enables one to check the position to some extent.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman arrange to have a week's return as the normal standard for the published figures upon which all the information is based? We do not know what private information he has, but we know that the figures which he publishes are wrong.

The results of the week's complete return which I get each quarter are made public. However, I will look at the whole matter and see if more can be done.

Might it not improve the position if the right hon. and learned Gentleman took the figures for a week and also took the highest number and the lowest number on a certain day during that week?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that to get the average for the week I should have to take every day. We take one day, and there is no reason to think that any other day would give a fairer return. We attempt to check the figure with a complete week, which we cannot do all the time but do from time to time.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that when Miss Margaret Bondfield became Minister of Labour, the system was a weekly count, and that it was a Socialist Government which changed it to a monthly count?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for that information.

asked the Minister of Labour how many applications from conscientious objectors were considered by the Midlands Tribunal from 20th December to 12th March inclusive; how many were accepted; how many were declined; and of the number declined how many applicants based their objection upon grounds other than religious.

Seventy-one applications were considered, of which 38 were accepted and 33 rejected. I am not in a position to classify cases according to whether the objection was based on religious grounds or not.

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to a letter, which has received great prominence, which appeared in the Birmingham Press from the Warwickshire Society of Friends, in which it was stated that if it were known how unfairly the conscientious objection clause was being interpreted, there would be a great number of protests in view of the large number of applications which have been declined; and will he look into that matter?

If the hon. Gentleman will be good enough to let me see the document to which he referred, I will look into it.

While recognising the very great difficulty of tribunal members in judging conscience, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman look at the proceedings of this Midland Tribunal and review the question of whether the present personnel is appropriate for the purpose?

I have no reason to suppose that there is any difficulty about the tribunal there. I have investigated the results and I find that they are about the same as in other districts; but if there is some specific point, perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put it down on the Order Paper.

When the right hon. and learned Gentleman says that he cannot answer the last part of the Question on the Order Paper, ought he not to look into the discrepancies between the practices of the various tribunals, some of which do recognise objections on other than religious grounds, for instance, political grounds in the broadest sense of that word?

The matter depends on the word "conscience" in the Act, and I have no power to determine whether that should be based on religious, political or moral grounds. It is a duty given to the tribunal by the Act, and I do not think that it would be wise for me to try to interfere.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the increasing number of cases when local tribunals for conscientious objectors have declined applications for registration upon moral, humanitarian or political grounds; and if he will take powers to issue regulations governing the course to be adopted in both local and appellate tribunals when considering such cases.

No, Sir. The National Service Acts deliberately placed on the independent tribunals the sole responsibility for deciding these cases. In my view it would be a retrograde step to ask Parliament to empower me to fetter their judgment by regulations.

Is the Minister aware that I attended this tribunal on 12th March and I heard statements made very clearly—at least four statements—that the only conscientious objections that Parliament recognises are those based on religious grounds; and three other separate statements clearly showing that neither on moral, humanitarian nor political grounds does Parliament recognise conscientious objections. That statement was made by the chairman of the tribunal in my presence, and I ask the Minister seriously to consider this matter?

That is a different matter, of which I have no knowledge. If the hon. Gentleman will bring it to my notice, I will take it into account with the other matter which he asked me to look into.

In view of the duties properly carried out by the vast majority of the young people of this country, will my right hon. and learned Friend not encourage in any way those people who try to "dodge the column"?

While we appreciate the arduous task of those on these tribunals who have to judge, and that many grievous injustices made will take place where earnest people do not base their objections on religion at all, may I ask the Minister if he will give the utmost sympathy to the requests that have come from this side of the House?

I would venture to point out that Parliament appreciated the difficulties of these tribunals to the extent of making an appellate tribunal available, and did not make the Minister an appellate tribunal from that tribunal.

In view of the question put by the hon. Member for Surrey, East (Mr. Doughty), would not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the law does contain the conscience provision depending of course, upon the interpretation placed upon the law by the tribunals concerned; but that it is not an offence for a person who has conscientious scruples to appear before a tribunal? Will he make that quite clear to his hon. Friend?

The right hon. Gentleman is quite right. The law says that where a conscientious objection is upheld in the view of the tribunal which the law has laid down, that is a valid answer. I am only trying to point out to hon. Members how difficult is the task of tribunals in deciding what is a conscientious objection, and how reluctant I am to interfere when I have not been told by Parliament so to do.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has now completed his examination of the possibility of allowing some measure of deferment for ex-apprentices in the aircraft industry.

Yes, Sir. Arrangements are being made to allow deferment of call-up for a limited number of men in highly skilled occupations for not more than two years after completion of apprenticeship where full use is being made of their skill on certain specified rearmament projects of the highest priority, including the latest types of military aircraft. This is subject to the men concerned not being required for service in a Service trade making full use of their skill. Information as to the procedure to be followed is being given by the Admiralty and the Ministry of Supply to the contractors and main sub-contractors whose work comes within the scope of these arrangements.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the statement which he has just made will give great satisfaction to those concerned in this great industry? Will he be a little more explicit about sub-contractors, because in this industry sub-contractors are carrying out a great percentage of the work involved?

Yes, Sir. This is a very limited exception from the general rule, and it is only in the case of the contractors and the main sub-contractors that it will apply.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether the exception is applicable to the electronics industry?

Yes, Sir.

As this is the second case recently in which, as a result of special pleading, certain sections have been exempt from call-up for National Service, the other case being that of agricultural workers, does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman think that a general review should take place so that the matter should not be dealt with piecemeal like this? Can he harmonise these special exceptions with his refusal to release miners from the Forces?

The difficulty about these exceptions is that in such a case as that to which the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) referred a moment ago, very exceptional considerations apply. I am most anxious not to see the numbers available for the Forces reduced below what they need, and it is with great reluctance that I have gone as far as I have done.

asked the Minister of Education what grants are made by her Department to the Philosophical Society of England.

None, Sir.

May I ask the right hon. Lady whether she saw Professor Ryle's exposure in a recent issue of the "Spectator" of this completely bogus organisation, and are there any steps which she can take to protect the public from confusion which may be caused by the activities of these degree-hawking impostors?

Unless this society applies to me for a grant, I am afraid that I have no business to inquire into it, but I have been interested to read some of the statements which I have found in various papers.

asked the Minister of Education why three new schools which had been included in the Slough building programme are to be cut out by order of her Department; and whether she will reconsider this decision.

There has been delay in the development of the new housing estates which will be served by these schools. According to my information the two new schools included in the current school building programme will suffice for the time being.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that housing has been held up in Slough because of the absence of drainage; that, when that drainage scheme is completed, there will be not only a big scheme for Slough itself but also two large L.C.C. estates; that the schools are already crowded; and that unless these buildings are put up there will not be places for at least 2,000 children?

I am informed that two years ago it was estimated that 2,000 houses would be completed at Langley and Farnham Royal by the end of 1953, but now the London County Council do not expect to have completed more than 900 by the end of 1953. We are keeping in close touch and trying to see that the provision of schools synchronises with the completion of houses.

To some extent the reply given by the right hon. Lady is correct, but are not the difficulties about the sewers the reason for the delay? Unless some authority is given for an early date to commence the building of these schools, a large number of London children living in the houses which are built will have no school to go to within the next 12 or 18 months. Will the right hon. Lady look into the matter a little more closely and try to synchronise the building of the schools and the houses more closely?

That is exactly what I am doing. As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, there has been a delay in housing. The fact that the delay has occurred has nothing to do with me. We are trying to synchronise the building. I shall certainly consider including the further projects for the area in the school building programme for 1953–54.

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that, to meet the cuts in education equipment in Slough, the parents and teachers of two schools are organising jumble sales to enable the equipment to be maintained; and whether she will instruct the Buckinghamshire County Council to reconsider its allocation for educational equipment.

I understand from the authority that there is no reason to suggest that the schools will be prevented from obtaining essential educational equipment.

Might I draw the attention of the Minister to the statements of the headmasters of these schools, who have asked that these jumble sales shall be held because the cut in the programme for this year means that they will be without equipment? While that is admirable action on the part of the headmasters and the parents, is it not a humiliation to our national education scheme that resort is needed to methods of this kind?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that the authority's estimates for 1952–53 as compared with 1951–52 have been increased, for the provision of books, stationery and materials, from £4,600 to £7,200 in the case of primary schools and from about £4,600 to over £6,000 in the case of secondary schools.

Is it not a fact that over the last five or six years, and in some cases for even longer, efforts of this kind have been organised on behalf of a great many schools in the country, very largely by parent-teacher associations and like bodies? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that they have done magnificent work in helping many schools out of great difficulties for a long time?

I know that it has been, and is, a common practice to raise by voluntary methods funds for certain things which schools would like to have as extras. However, I assure hon. Gentlemen that there has been this increase in the estimates for books, stationery and materials.

Is the Minister aware that there has been a cut in this year's estimate for this purpose in the Buckinghamshire County Council area, and the facts that she gives about the latest estimate—the original estimate was cut after the receipt of her circular by the county council—are accounted for by the increase in the school population and for the extra prices for equipment in the schools?

I quite agree with the hon. Gentleman that the reason we are spending more on education than ever before is because there has been this increase in the school population and because costs have gone up.

asked the Minister of Education whether she will introduce legislation to enable parents to be required to make some contribution towards maintenance where children are accommodated in residential special schools.

I am not yet ready to introduce any legislative proposals, but in preparing them I will consider this suggestion along with any others that may be put to me.

Is my right hon. Friend aware, as I am sure she is, that in nonresidential schools the parents have had to contribute to maintenance as distinct from the education, and it seems unreasonable that because a child is in a residential centre the parents should make no contribution, as they would have done if the child were at a non-residential school?

I am aware of that, and as I have already said, I wish to consider the various suggestions that are put to me before I make any proposals for legislation.

asked the Minister of Education whether she will refuse to sanction the decision of the Somerset County Council to close nursery schools at Yeovil and Chard.

I am considering the local education authority's proposal, of which I have just been informed, to close eight out of the 10 nursery schools which they maintain, including that at Chard and one of the two at Yeovil.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the result of this proposal, if approved, will be very considerable hardship to the children and parents involved, and has she satisfied herself that adequate inquiries were first made by the Somerset County Council?

As I have said, I have only just received the proposal. It was sent to me on 4th April, and I shall look into all the details about the proposed closing of these nursery schools.

Is the Minister aware that it was her own circular which inspired this authority and other similarly minded authorities to reduce the facilities that are considered essential in the educational world?

As I think the hon. Gentleman knows, these schools cannot be closed unless the approval of the Minister is given. As I have said, I am looking into all these cases, but I only received this communication on 4th April.

asked the Minister of Education whether she has agreed to the request of the London County Council to continue the payment of fares of children under eight years of age resident more than one-and-half miles from the schools at which they attend.

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Education whether, in view of the growing public feeling against the cuts in the education service, as demonstrated by the results of the county council elections, she will now review her policy of making cuts in these services.

No, Sir. I invited local education authorities to co-operate with me in reducing the rate of increase in their expenditure as shown in the forecasts for 1952–53 and concentrating their resources on the essentials of the education service. I can find no grounds for reviewing this policy.

But is the right hon. Lady not aware that the education cuts were a dominant issue in many of the county council elections, particularly in London, and in view of the overwhelming Labour success throughout the country, is it not the duty of the right hon. Lady to review her whole policy and have regard to the determination of public opinion that the educational services shall be maintained and increased?

When the hon. Member speaks of cuts, he realises that a great many people who did not take the trouble to understand my circular thought that there was going to be a decrease in local authority spending on education this year as compared with last year. The people in London were not fully informed that the real situation was that there was an increase of expenditure by the local education authorities this year of £14 million, which is an increase of over 5 per cent., and not a decrease.

Is the Minister aware that any effect that these educational proposals may have had on the election in London is due simply to the gross misrepresentation which has been going on for so many years, and which is characteristic of the Socialist Party?

Is the Minister aware that the answer that she gave to my previous Question on the subject of school fares shows that there was an attempt on the part of her Department to persuade the London County Council to effect a rather nauseating economy at the expense of children under eight years of age, and either make them walk the whole distance to school or pay all or part of the fare, and that she has now changed her mind?

No. I should like to make it quite clear to the hon. and gallant Gentleman that it is not a case of changing my mind. I asked the local authorities to look into the subject of their transport charges, which my predecessor two years ago said were much too high, and which are higher now. The London County Council have sent me a statement of certain things that they wish to continue to do. I have acknowledged their letter, and I have not directed that there should be changes where they make slight alterations or variations for school children of certain ages.

Am I to understand from what the right hon. Lady has said, and from the cheers which greeted some of her observations, that the Government are not the least disturbed by the results of the County Council elections?

I am not in the least disturbed that some people say there has been a cut in expenditure in education, because I know that that is completely untrue. There has been an increase.

asked the Minister of Education what instructions she has issued to education authorities as to the granting of extra holidays to the children of hop-pickers during the hop-picking season.

The authorities likely to be concerned were recently reminded that they can help in securing adult labour for hop-picking by allowing local variations in the dates for school holidays and by granting children leave of absence for up to 14 days to accompany their parents on a hop-picking holiday.

Is the Minister aware that there have been quite a number of prosecutions? I know the case is a very difficult one, but, if it is not possible to extend the holidays, will she ask the local authorities to treat such cases where children have to go with their parents to the hop-picking fields with very great leniency?

My hon. Friend will realise that the enforcement of school attendance is the responsibility of the local education authority, and it would not be proper for me to interfere with their discretion. I shall certainly look into any particular point which my hon. Friend would like to bring to my notice.

asked the Minister of Education whether she has now decided to relax the age limit of 16 years for those pupils who wish to take the general certificate of education.

I have nothing at this stage to add to the answer I gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Norfolk, Central (Brigadier Medlicott), on 6th March.

In view of the great anxiety felt about this question by parents, will my hon. Friend expedite her decision in this matter as much as possible?

I will do my best to decide as quickly as possible as soon as the report from Secondary School Examinations Council comes through.

Is the Minister aware that the recommendation fixing the age for taking the examination at 16 was the unanimous decision of the Secondary Schools Examination Council, and will she pause and reflect and weigh everything carefully before she agrees to the reactionary proposal to reduce the age limit?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that, soon after I took office as Minister of Education, I was informed by the Secondary Schools Examination Council that they had decided to review the situation in the light of their experience. They said they would then report to me. I am now awaiting their report. When I receive that report, I will make up my mind about it as quickly as possible.

Will the right hon. Lady ask the Secondary Schools Examination Council to advise us as to whether hares and tortoises always run at the same speed?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the quota of bulb corms and tubers to be imported during 1952.

The quota has not yet been decided. An announcement will be made as soon as possible.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that, immediately following his cancellation of the open general licence for the importation of bulbs, corms and rhizomes, the Dutch exporters wrote to importers and other buyers in this country asking them to send in all further orders immediately, back-dated to the week prior to the cancellation of the open general licence; and what steps he proposes to take to deal with this calculated evasion of his order.

Yes, Sir. A number of importers have informed the Board of Trade that Dutch exporters have written to them in this sense. I have given instructions that applications for licences to import bulbs against outstanding contracts should be examined with particular care, and that no licences should be issued until further notice for autumn deliveries. By the end of March, however, applications to import bulbs for spring delivery amounted to only £44,000, which does not appear to be an excessive figure, considering that imports last year exceeded £4 million. Any person who makes any false statement, or furnishes any document or information false in a material particular, for the purpose of obtaining an import licence is, of course, liable to heavy penalties.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what are the export duties now levied on tea exported by India, Pakistan, Ceylon and Indonesia to this country; and if, in order to reduce the price of tea in Britain, he will make representations to these countries to reduce or abolish these duties.

The current export duties on tea are as follows:

• India—4 annas per lb.
• Pakistan—3 annas per lb.
• Ceylon—35 cents per lb.
• Indonesia—Nil.

I do not think that any useful purpose would be served by representations at the present time to secure the reduction or abolition of these duties. I should point out, however, that Pakistan and Ceylon have recently reduced them, and Indonesia suspended the duty of 8 per cent. as from 1st April, 1951.

Is it not a fact that sometimes these export duties mean that those countries are compelling the consumer of tea in Britain to contribute to their revenue?

Of course these export taxes are part of the fiscal policy of the countries concerned and, as such, are in the first instance primarily a matter for them.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the number of members of the Quota Defaults Sub-Committee of the Films Council which advises the Films Council on the institution of prosecutions against defaulters under the Cinematograph Act, 1948; and how many of them are exhibitors who themselves defaulted in the year ending September, 1951.

Twelve of the Council's 22 members are regular members of the Defaults Committee, but any member of the Council may attend the committee's meetings. There is also a technical sub-committee of four members, including one producer, one distributor and two exhibitors of whom one is a director of an exhibiting company which at certain of its theatres did not, in the year ended 30th September, 1951, show the prescribed number of British films. On this point, I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to his Question on 20th March. I may add that in the matter of these prosecutions, the Film Council's functions are advisory and it is a matter for the Board of Trade to decide whether a prosecution should be instituted.

As the right hon. Gentleman told me previously that four of these people were themselves representing exhibitors who had defaulted under the Quota Act, will he in future take great care to disregard their advice, because the advice of people not to prosecute themselves cannot be very reliable?

The former answer referred to the Films Council generally; this refers to the technical sub-committee. However, I can assure the hon. Gentleman that in the question of these prosecutions the final decision is with me, and I will certainly bear in mind the point he has raised.

asked the President of the Board of Trade in what places 23 cinemas belonging to the Associated British Cinema circuit failed to fulfil their quota obligations during the quota year ended September, 1951; and in which cases he proposes to institute proceedings against them.

With the hon. Member's permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of the theatres owned or managed by Associated British Cinemas Limited at which less than the prescribed quota of British films was shown.

The company has applied in all these cases for a certificate under Section 13 of the Cinematograph Films Act, 1938, that failure to achieve the quota was due to circumstances beyond the company's control. Before determining these applications, I have a statutory obligation to consult the Cinematograph Films Council and consider their advice; this I am at present doing. Until the applications have been determined, no one can say whether or not prosecution will be appropriate in all or any of the cases. But I should in any event regard it as improper to give advance notice about whether I was proposing to prosecute in any particular case.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether there was any peculiar difficulty about the places in which these cinemas were situated? Does he realise that this company regularly defaults year after year and is never prosecuted, that in the year before it defaulted in 305 cinemas, and that there was not a single prosecution brought against it?

As to the question of whether there was particular difficulty in the location of the cinemas, that would be a matter for the court if and when a prosecution was instituted. As to the machinery laid down for investigating these cases, it was approved in the Act of 1948 passed by the hon. Gentleman's own Government.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will now make a statement as to the number of prosecutions it is proposed to institute in respect of quota defaults for the year ended, September, 1951.

A number of individual cases are now being examined, in consultation with the Cinematograph Films Council. I propose to prosecute in appropriate cases but obviously cannot say in advance how many there may be.

This is very encouraging news, but as there were 771 defaulters on first-feature films last year, can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that there will be at least 100 prosecutions in respect of these defaults?

I think it would not be judicial of me to start prosecuting on a percentage basis.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will now designate North-East Lancashire as a development area.

I am aware of the problems of North-East Lancashire, but I am not satisfied that the course proposed by the hon. Member would be appropriate at the present time.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that the local planning authorities comprising the Lancashire County Council, the County Borough of Blackburn and the County Borough of Burnley have decided that this is one of the essential steps towards doing something to help the Lancashire textile industry in its present difficulties? Does he also appreciate the advantages in the way of facilities for licences, grants, and so forth, that a simple administrative step like this would give to that district, and will he not look at this proposal again?

I will, of course, look sympathetically at any suggestions put forward to deal with what is a very difficult problem in that area. At the same time we ought to look a little more widely at it—whether it is technically a development area or not—and I would rather concentrate at the moment in trying to get some contracts into that area.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, if he will make that area into a development area, it will make it much easier for industrialists who may be bringing new industries to East Lancashire, which we urgently want, to get the licences, particularly for steel, and they cannot do that as long as that area is in its present indeterminate situation?

If my hon. Friend has examples of industrialists who wish to start a new industry in that area, and would like to call my attention to that matter, I shall be happy to discuss it with him. I do not think the question of whether it is a development area or not would stand in the way.

Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he is not aware that one of his predecessors gave a reply in similar words when we were pleading for South-West Lancashire to be designated as a development area, and that when we brought pressure to bear upon him, he agreed? Is the Minister also aware of the immense success which was the result of the persuasive powers of hon. Members on this side of the House in making South-West Lancashire a development area? I know that the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the position in North-East Lancashire and we are anxious to help him, and one of the ways he can render help to it is by designating it as a development area.

I am quite ready to listen to arguments put forward upon this subject and to give them sympathetic consideration. At the same time, what is wanted is not the technical designation of an area as one category or another. What is wanted is work and the bringing of contracts into the area. It is on that rather practical aspect of the matter that I prefer to concentrate at the moment.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall try to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible date.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any statement to make about the progress of the Anglo-Argentine trade discussions.

The discussions on trade matters which both Governments are required to hold under the Agreement on Trade and Payments concluded with Argentina on 27th June, 1949, and the Protocol to this Agreement of 23rd April, 1951, are now being held in Buenos Aires. They have, however, so far been informal and exploratory and there is nothing which could usefully be reported to the House at the present stage.

In view of the large number of Questions which have been put to the Minister of Food on this matter in recent weeks, can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the other trade matters that were very much in evidence last year are equally being taken care of this year?

All relevant matters are under consideration and can be raised in these discussions.

How many representatives of private enterprise are engaged in these discussions?

Her Majesty's Ambassador is in charge of these discussions.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the quota of broccoli imports authorised by his Department for the period ended 31st March was exceeded by a substantial margin; and what steps he proposes to take, in view of the ample home crop, to ensure that the quota for the period commencing 1st April is not exceeded.

Yes, Sir. I would, however, like to remind my hon. Friend that it is our practice on the one hand to allow these import quotas to be exceeded when we are advised that home supplies will not be sufficient to meet the needs of the home consumer, and on the other hand to suspend imports when we are advised that home supplies are sufficient.

The announced quota for the period 1st April-30th June, 1952, was 2,500 tons, subject to review in the light of supplies available from home production. As home supplies are satisfactory, I have again taken steps to suspend imports after consultation with my right hon. Friends the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Minister of Food. I am also examining with them how the present arrangements for operating these quotas can be improved.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if he is aware that in the last quota period the quota was exceeded by 2,500 tons, and that when that excess was coming in both Kent and Cornish broccoli was available in large quantities but was unsaleable in the markets? May I suggest to my right hon. Friend that the way to arrange the quota is not by means of a lump figure for a long period but by so much per month?

While I appreciate the point raised by my hon. Friend, I think he will at least find my answer satisfactory to the extent that the quota has been suspended altogether for the period to which I referred.

Is it still the policy of the Government to give home broccoli growers first place in the home market?

If my hon. Friend studies the answer I have given, he will see that it is the position of the home grower which determines in our minds the amount of the quota which we allow.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the price of broccoli is still extremely high? What steps are being taken by the Minister or by his right hon. Friends in shutting out imports, to hold the prices down or to get them down lower?

That is a Question which should properly be addressed to my right hon. Friends.

Surely, that must have been part of the consideration which the right hon. Gentleman gave to the question. He cannot decide to shut out imports without considering the price which is ruling in the shops. He told us that he consulted his right hon. Friends the Ministers of Agriculture and Food. At those consultations, what steps did they decide to take in order to deal with the price question?

There are two sides to this question. There are those who want to support the growers of the home broccoli and those who, on the other hand, want adequate supplies of broccoli so that the price may be quite reasonable. Those interests are to some extent conflicting. What we do is, in consultation with my right hon. Friends, to try to hold the balance fairly and evenly between them.

Is the Minister satisfied that 2s. or 2s. 6d. for a broccoli is a reasonable price in view of the fact that the quota has been exceeded and that there are ample home supplies?

In view of what is happening to other food prices, is not the consideration advanced by my right hon. Friend very important, and ought not the Minister to consider again the prohibition of imports in order to ensure that the price is not too high?

All these matters are considered in weighing the amount of quota which should be allowed for any particular period.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that broccoli in the shops in London today are on an average 3d. or 4d. cheaper than this time a year ago, when the other party were in power?

On a point of order. As my hon. Friend is not here to ask Question No. 45, and in view of the public disquiet about the information applied for in the Question, do you think, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Agriculture could be invited to give the answer after Question time?

I have stated the rule on that point several times, which is that unless the Minister makes representations to me I cannot move in the matter.

asked the Minister of Agriculture how many agricultural workers in the South-Western Region have left the land to work in factories for each of the years 1949, 1950 and 1951; what was the cause of this exodus; and what he proposes to do to encourage men to remain in this important industry.

Statistics of former agricultural workers working in factories are not available. The total number of agricultural workers in the South-Western Region in June, 1948, was 90,364. This rose to 92,159 in June, 1949, fell to 91,449 in June, 1950, and then to 86,797 by June, 1951. The net loss of 3,567 workers was by no means wholly to factories, but many farm workers have undoubtedly left the land for industry during the last two years. It has been a period of keen competition for labour everywhere and of industrial development in many rural areas. In answer to the last part of the hon. Member's Question I would refer him to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Rugby (Mr. J. Johnson) on 21st February and to my remarks in the agricultural debate on 4th April.

Is the Minister aware that there has been a general drift from agriculture and from the land into the factories in that area, caused by better conditions and wages obtainable in the factories? Will he take steps to have the wages of the farm workers in that area revised so that there will be an incentive for workers to remain on the farms and on the land, instead of going to the factories?

The question of wages is not my responsibility. That is entirely in the hands of the Agricultural Wages Board.

Does not the Minister think that some part of the reason why men have left the land arises from the increase in mechanisation which has taken place in agriculture, which must mean greater productivity per man, but lead to there being fewer men on the land?

I would agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

Would not the Minister agree that this makes all the more serious the failure of the Government to provide a sufficiency of capital equipment to enable this industry to expand as it would wish to with necessary equipment to prevent the loss of manpower being serious?

I dealt with that point during the debate. I am satisfied that with the capital equipment available we can still further increase the food production of this country. A very good feature, so far as the labour position is concerned, is the number of young people coming into the industry.

asked the Minister of Agriculture what percentage of the quarterly agriculture returns are received within the first 14 days of the due date, the first 28 days; and what is the percentage outstanding eight weeks after the due date.

About 78 per cent. are received within 14 days of the due date, and 97 per cent. within 28 days. Three per cent. are outstanding eight weeks after the due date.

May I ask my right hon. and gallant Friend if he feels there is any real value in proceeding with the collection of quarterly returns?

At the present time I think there is. There are a good many statistics required, and I am satisfied that quarterly returns are necessary.

Can the Minister tell us whether the hon. Member for Dorset, North (Mr. Crouch), is among the 97 per cent. or the 3 per cent.

asked the Minister of Agriculture how many allotment holders have been deprived of their allotments since the war; how many have given them up voluntarily; and what is being done to encourage the growth of vegetables to make up for this land going out of cultivation.

I regret that the figures required are not available. Although the total number of allotments is now considerably less than the peak war-time figure, there has been a steady increase since the war in the number of permanent and privately owned allotments. Local authorities have been asked to do all that is possible to provide alternative plots for displaced allotment holders.

Is the Minister aware that there is an impression abroad that the number of allotments has dropped since the war by half a million, and that as a consequence there is a loss in the production of vegetables, and what is he proposing to do to make up that loss?

It is very difficult to get accurate figures, but since 1948 there has been an increase in the total acreage of land used for allotments. So far as the vegetable position is concerned, I think it is agreed that, generally, the production of vegetables is adequate, apart from potatoes, in respect of which a special appeal has been made to farmers, allotment holders and gardeners to plant more this spring for consumption next year.

Is the Minister aware that the figures I have given regarding the reduction of allotment land come from men who have studied this problem, and who are concerned that the reduction in the number of allotments is very considerable indeed.

My point is that since 1948 there has been an increase. I have to agree that there has been a big reduction since the peak war-time period.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the total amount of feedingstuffs in the ration pool for the current ration year; the estimated amount to be distributed to domestic poultry keepers; and an estimate of the approximate addition to this necessary to enable a 25 per cent. bonus to be issued to members of domestic poultry keepers' clubs.

The total quantity of feedingstuffs in the ration pool for Great Britain in the year ending 30th April, 1952, is 4.9 million tons, of which 93,000 tons is the estimated quantity distributed to domestic poultry keepers. In reply to the last part of the Question, the additional quantity required might be between 2,000 and 5,000 tons in the first year, according to the effect of such a bonus in increasing membership of domestic poultry clubs.

Does not the Minister think, in the light of those figures, that it is silly not to take this step, which would considerably raise the egg production of this country and ease our egg supply position? Does not he further think that the reply given to me last week by his hon. Friend, in which he referred to the commercial poultry keepers, leads folk to think that this is more protection for the commercial poultry keepers than for any other sensible purpose?

I cannot agree with the right hon. Gentleman on that point. The real point here is that the total supply of feedingstuffs available does not admit of any increase in the rations for poultry at either commercial or domestic level.

Really, out of 4.9 million tons the extra 2,000 or 4,000 tons must be well within the margin of error on which the Department of the right hon. Gentleman already works. In fact, the difference between the number of domestic hen owners and the number we had at the peak period represents the rations of several million people every year. Since my wife is getting only two eggs per book at this time, which is supposed to be the flush period, ought we to refuse this very good and useful extra source?

If I accepted what the right hon. Gentleman said, there is no doubt that all the domestic poultry keepers would expect to be treated alike.

They should join a club.

I think the very strength of the poultry club movement, in which the right hon. Gentleman is so interested, must be based on trying to make the maximum use of household waste, and I do not feel I would be justified in authorising an increase of their ration at the expense of commercial poultry keepers.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will now give further consideration to the feedingstuffs rationing schemes with a view to their simplification and the abolition of the present datum year basis.

I am always ready to consider suggestions for a revised rationing scheme for feedingstuffs, but so far it has not proved possible to find a revised scheme which will neither dislocate production nor create more anomalies than it removes.

Is not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that everyone feels that the reduction of this datum line is by itself perhaps the most hampering barrier to increased production for specialist producers? Is he further aware that in every farming newspaper every week there are stories about the enormous black market developing in coupons? Does not he think that that suggests we have probably reached the point at which we could do away with feedingstuffs rationing?

That raises a very large issue. I entirely agree with what the right hon. Gentleman has said as to the unsatisfactory nature of the present position. But I must remind him, and I think he will be aware of this, that the Feedingstuffs Advisory Committee have considered suggestions during the past few years for changing the basis of the ration but up to now have been unable to find any scheme which met with their approval. I have this point very much in mind, and if I could find a fair and equitable alternative I should be the first to change the present arrangement.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman bear in mind there is some reason for thinking that the Feedingstuffs Advisory Committee might include what I might call "vested interests" in this matter and perhaps he needs to get advice from other quarters?

I do not accept what the right hon. Gentleman has said, but I am prepared to consider suggestions on this subject from any quarter. If any hon. Member of this House has any suggestion, I will gladly look into it.

May I ask why the right hon. Member for Belper (Mr. Brown) is so concerned about the feedingstuffs position today and how he comes to be so innocent of what is happening about feedingstuffs now that he has left the Department?