asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the total number of persons receiving payments from the National Assistance Board on 31st December, 1953; and the number of old age pensioners and other recipients of National Insurance benefits included in this total.

:At 15th December, 1953, regular weekly grants of National Assistance were being paid to 1,761,149 persons, of whom 1,227,063 had retirement pensions or other National Insurance benefits. Some of the grants covered the needs of a household containing more than one recipient of a pension or benefit.

:Is the Minister aware that those figures show an alarming increase over the figures at the end of the previous year? Will he not now consider raising the old age pension payments to take out of National Assistance large numbers of old people who ought not to be required to apply for it for extra relief?

If he examines the figures for this year and previous years, the hon. Member will note that there has been a continuous increase since 1948. The increase in the total number this year is less than the increase in preceding years.

:Is the Parliamentary Secretary not aware that as these increases go on accumulating it becomes all the more serious? As more than a quarter of the old people are now dependent upon National Assistance, will the Minister not do something about it?

:One of the reasons for the increase is that the National Assistance scales today are, rightly, at a more generous level than ever before. Another factor is that many of the older people exhausted their savings during the period of inflation from 1947 to 1951.

:Is the Minister aware that of the number of retirement pensioners receiving an allowance from the Assistance Board quite a large number also receive an increment in pension under the National Insurance Act, which is taken into account in assessing the allowance from the Board and defeats the purpose of the increment? Will the hon. Gentleman consider disregarding this amount of increment and thus safeguard the purpose of the increment?

:That would appear to be another question.

In view of the nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what progress is being made by the investigations into the problem of increasing disablement suffered by limbless ex-Service men as they get older; and if he will make a statement.

The vast majority of the medical examinations requested by the Rock Carling Committee have been concluded and it is hoped to clear the small remainder in the next fortnight or so.

The clinical findings relating to over 5,000 concluded cases are now being collated and the results will be sent to the Committee for consideration as soon as possible. My right hon. Friend would prefer not to prophesy when the investigations, which are of international importance, will be completed. When the final report of the Committee is available, he proposes to study it in consultation with his principal medical advisers and subsequently with his Central Advisory Committee.

With regard to the problem of the ageing pensioner, my right hon. Friend proposes to await the final report of the Committee before reaching a conclusion.

:Is the Minister aware that the disadvantages of the loss of a limb become progressively very much greater as the years go by, and that there will be widespread support for any exceptional treatment which is accorded to these men who have suffered so much in the common cause?

:On existing information, my right hon. Friend has no reason for discriminating between the ageing war amputee and any other type of ageing pensioner. I suggest, however, that we should await the Committee's report.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why, in view of the independent and responsible medical opinion submitted to him in support of the application by Mr. Aaron Barnes, of Blackburn, for an increased war pension in respect of the amputation of his second leg, he has failed to give this applicant the benefit of the reasonable doubt which exists in his case.

The consensus of expert medical opinion leaves no room for reasonable doubt that the amputation of Mr. Barnes' right leg in 1953 was not connected with the loss of the left leg in 1917. I have fully explained the position to the hon. Member, both orally and in writing, and, much as I sympathise with Mr. Barnes, I regret that his pension cannot be increased.

:Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this consensus of medical opinion which he has quoted does not include that of an independent specialist of high repute, whose report I have sent him and who expresses the view that the degeneration of Mr. Barnes' right leg might have been associated with the fact that his left leg was amputated as a result of the First World War? Is it not intolerable that an ex-Service man minus both legs should now be getting only a 60 per cent pension?

:As the hon. Lady knows, I have gone into this case very carefully indeed. I have read the reports of the two medical men whose opinions she sent me, and they are very indefinite; they just indicate that it is worth making a claim.

During the last seven years, we have heard of only two cases in which it was claimed that arterio-sclerosis arose in a sound limb as a result of wearing an artificial limb. One of these cases, exactly similar to that of Mr. Barnes, was referred to two independent medical experts, both of whom confirmed the wealth of medical opinion which we have in the Ministry of these cases, to the effect that the wearing of an artificial limb would not cause, aggravate or precipitate the onset of arterio-sclerosis in the sound limb, that the incidence of arterio-sclerosis is certainly no greater among amputees than among civilians who have no wounds at all, and that the average age for the appearance of this disability is 50, whereas Mr. Barnes is 61. I am giving the hon. Lady this reply rather fully, because it is of the greatest interest and concern to amputees all over the country.

:Does not the length of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's reply reveal the guilt that is on his conscience? Is it not a fact that as long as there is any reputable independent medical opinion prepared to say that there is reasonable doubt in a pensioner's case, under the terms of the Royal Warrant the applicant ought to be given the benefit?

:These cases are always distressing, but in this particular case we have a great consensus of medical opinion at all our limb fitting ceintres and at Roehampton Hospital. I have checked the consensus of opinion with the opinion of our doctors in the Ministry. Mr. Barnes is getting £4 17s. a week from the Ministry, and we will help him in any way we possibly can.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise this matter later.