asked the Secretary of State for War if he will provide his recruiting officers with information to enable them to state definitely to a would-be recruit that vacancies are, or are not, available in any particular trade for which the man applies, thus avoiding subsequent disappointmen

The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Antony Head):Recruiting officers are kept informed of vacancies in the various trades. It is not, however, possible to guarantee at the time of enlistment that a man will be employed in a particular trade, since the vacancies vary from day to day and, on testing after entry, a man may not qualify for the trade he wishes. Recruiting officers know this.

Commander Scott-Miller: Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it would not only be fairer to the recruit to be told definitely whether there is a vacancy but also a help to recruiting generally in encouraging volunteers to come forward?

Yes, Sir. It would be very good for recruiting and would please everybody, but unfortunately one cannot tell when a man is recruited, until he has been tested, whether he is competent for that particular trade.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many man-hours were spent on ceremonial drill in the British Army during the last period of six months for which figures are available

No figures are available.

:Why not? Has not the War Office any information about how much ceremonial drill there is in the training programme for recruits? Surely it should be possible to get the information.

:Ceremonial parades are held on occasions like Trooping the Colour or on other occasions where the Army wants to pay tribute to some particular event. I think that it would be a waste of time for the Army and for everyone else to call for details of ceremonial parades.

:Cannot my right hon. Friend consider having a short and very sharp course of ceremonial drill for the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler)?

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentages of men in the Army are now overseas, in Germany and in the United Kingdom, respectively

Since the war we have not given this regional breakdown of strengths.

Did not the Secretary of State last year give figures of the percentage of recruits overseas, and if it is not possible to give the exact figures mentioned in the Question relating to Germany and the United Kingdom, could he give us figures similar to those which were given last year?

:No, Sir. What I said last year was that 80 per cent, of the fighting formations of the British Army were overseas. We have never given a complete breakdown of our strength in this country as compared with overseas because we think that there are other people besides the hon. Gentleman who might like to know the figures.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman say what is now the figure comparable to that which the Secretary of State gave last year?

That is quite a different question from the one on the Order Paper, and I should like the hon. Gentleman to put it down.

asked the Secretary of State for War to what extent he has made improvements in the British system of Army training and administration as a result of studying the systems prevailing in Commonwealth and North Atlantic Treaty countries.

:There is a constant exchange of information and experience with the armies of other countries of both the Commonwealth and the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

:Would it not be worth while for the War Office to send a working party to tour the Commonwealth countries and the countries of our N.A.T.O. allies in order to study their methods of training and administration, and discover how it is that all these other countries are able either to dispense with conscription altogether or to maintain a very much Shorter period of compulsory service than we have in this country?

The correct answer to that question wouldbe very long. I would point out that these countries have sent considerable missions to find out how we run our schools and so on, and that the Commonwealth position regarding conscription is very different from our own.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many private soldiers, non-commissioned officers and officers were employed in non-combatant service on 1st January, 1954

asked the Secretary of State for War how many men, National Service men and Regulars, respectively, are engaged in non-combatant tasks.

:All ranks of the Army are trained in combatant duties. The borderline between combatant and non-combatant service is necessarily so arbitrary, and indeed controversial, that I can give no worth-while figures.

:That is an amazing reply. The right hon. Gentleman himself was one of those who complained bitterly about the tail of the Army. May we know whether the tail is growing or diminishing? Cannot the right hon. Gentleman give us any idea at all?

:I remain as one who is always opposed to the tail, and I should like to get more teeth and less tail. I would point out that the hon. Gentleman is asking me for an exact percentage, and it is extremely difficult to say at what period in a division someone stops being a tooth and starts being a tail.

:Surely the Minister should reconsider the position. Cannot he answer Question 16, which deals with National Service men and Regulars, because I am certain the figures are available?

If the hon. Gentleman will define to me what is a non-combatant, I will try to answer the question.

Is it not an insult to the Army Catering Corps to describe Army cooks as menials?

Canthe right hon. Gentleman explain these difficulties, which he has rightly stressed, to his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who has talked constantly about this question of the tail?

No, Sir. I have talked about the tail. I interpret the tail to be large headquarters and unduly big administrative units. If I were to give an arbitrary figure, I think that the ratio of the teeth to the tail is 1·3 to one, but I do not think that is an entirely fair one.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many private soldiers were employed at batmen, cooks, waiters and in other menial services, designed to add to the personal comfort and convenience of officers, on 1st January, 1954

Batmen and cooks and orderlies for officers'messes are provided oil scales designed to meet essential needs with all possible economy. The scales are below the pre-war ones.

I want the numbers of all those people engaged in the Army who look after someone else's personal comfort. Will the right hon. Gentleman consider abolishing these menial duties for men engaged as soldiers and employ civilians to do the job?

I am limited as to the number of civilians that I can employ. I would point out that these organisations have to go overseas and fight, and one cannot have civilians cooking for officers and looking after them if they have to go and fight in Malaya. It just does not work. We have to have these people. Hon. Members have cooks and waiters in the House of Commons, and I do not see why officers should not have them.

:Why should there be cooks for officers in the front line, when Tommy has to cook his food in his mess tin; why cannot the officers do the same?

The hon. Gentleman, to whom I pay great tribute, was engaged in static warfare in 1914, and I have no doubt that what he says was correct then; but at the present time, in mobile warfare, we have special cooks to cook for him.

The right hon. Gentleman has raised the question of the number of cooks and waiters in service in the House of Commons, but if he asked a Question as to how many were employed in this staff, he would get a correct reply.

Would my right hon. Friend make it clear, because there seems tobe some misunderstanding, that these are not menial jobs and that these men, in addition to doing these jobs, are fully-trained soldiers?

asked the Secretary of State for War to give, as separate items, the cost to the taxpayer of providing food, clothing, accommodation, equipment and arms and ammunition to a private soldier in 1938 and in 1953.

The approximate annual costs of feeding, clothing and housing a soldier in 1938 and 1953 respectively were: food, £25 and £48; clothing, including personal equipment, £3 and £14; and accommodation, £20 and £45.

The cost of arms, ammunition and other equipment cannot realistically be related to the individual soldier.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many applications for discharge by purchase have been received since 1952; how many have been granted; and what is the total sum paid.

Since 1st January, 1953, discharge has been approved in 1,409 cases and receipts up to 31st December, 1953, were about £38,000. All qualified applicants were granted discharge except for 76 cases of deferment for six months or less: these were mostly bandsmen.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers have completed their period of National Service since January, 1951; how many have been transferred to the Reserve Forces for training; and how many are now undergoing Reserve training

:By 31st December last year, 8,715 officers and 313,000 other ranks had completed their whole-time service and been transfered to the Reserve Forces for training. All these men, with a very few exceptions, will carry out part-time training.

Is the Secretary of State satisfied that we are getting full military value from this period of Reserve training in the Territorial Army?

I do not believe that arrangements will ever be perfect, but our object is to get the best value both for the men and out of them that we possibly can in part-time training.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers undergoing Reserve training are serving in units for which they were not trained during their period of National Service; and how many are receiving no training because suitable units are not available within reasonable reach of the reservist's home.

Of those transferred to part-time service between 1st July, 1952, and 31st December, 1953, about one man in seven was transferred to a corps or arm in which he had not done his whole-time service. Where there is no suitable Territorial Army unit near a man's home, he carries out his part-time training in the Army Emergency Reserve elsewhere.

asked the Secretary of State for War how many men in the Army are sleeping in two-tier bunks; if he will name the camps where this occurs, with the figures for each camp; and when it is proposed to bring this state of affairs to an end

:About 3,500 men. I am sending the hon. Member details of each of the 20 camps concerned. I am anxious to do away with double bunks, and the number of men using them has been reduced in the past year by over 3,000.

:Surely that is a deplorable number of people in the Service who are still serving under these conditions. Cannot the Minister speed up this matter and give our men the conditions to which they are entitled?

My problem is very closely related to that of the housing problem. If we could build barracks rapidly, the whole problem would be overcome. We are trying to get this matter settled as quickly as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for War the strength of the voluntary element in the Territorial Army; and what is the increase in the last 12 months

At the beginning of this year, volunteers in the Territorial Army numbered 60,310 and National Service volunteers 55,776. In 1953 there was an increase of some 18,000 National Service volunteers and a decrease of about 7,000 direct volunteers.

Will the Minister bear these figures in mind carefully, and will he consider also introducing some special form of incentives?

Mr. Head: I have these figures very much in mind.

:Is not the number of volunteers for the Territorial Army fewer now than three or four years ago? Does the right hon. Gentleman recall how he complained about our inactivity and lack of imagination and influence? Can he explain his failure in this respect?

The right hon. Gentleman's question displays an abysmal ignorance of the problem. The point is, as he knows, that the volunteers who are not National Service men are inevitably getting older—nobody can avoid that. Therefore, in the future the Territorial Army must rely for its volunteer element on men who were originally serving part-time on National Service.

When did the right hon. Gentleman make that discovery? He displayed abysmal ignorance of the situation when he was on this side of the House.

:What we urged upon the right hon. Gentleman was that his efforts should be directed to retaining as many of the direct volunteers as possible, and to inducing the part-time National Service man to stay on. That is what we are belatedly doing.

Are we to understand that the Government have abandoned the hope of getting volunteers for the Territorial Army before the National Service age?

I should not like to give an answer without notice, but I think it is a rarity at the moment for men to volunteer before they are called up for National Service.

asked the Secretary of State for War the number of divisions which Great Britain would produce in the event of another world war.

We do not disclose plans for the expansion of the Army in war.

I am quite sure that the right hon. Gentleman realises how remarkable is his reply. Is he aware that he authorised General West to give a broadcast in which General West said that there would be 40 divisions? How is it, therefore, that the right hon. Gentleman cannot give the number but his nominee can?

With second sight, I have brought a copy of General West's broadcast with me. General West was asked whether in the future there would be a Commonwealth division, and he illustrated the reasons why he did not think there would be one. He said that this country would produce the maximum number of divisions possible in the next war, and the figure he quoted was about the number which we had in the last war and was given as an instance of the size of the effort that is likely to be made.

Is the right hon. Gentleman, perhaps unwittingly, deceiving the House? Will he be good enough to read the relevant paragraph in the broadcast? Does it not clearly show that General West said in reply to a question that he expected 40 British and 20 Australian divisions would be deployed in the next war? Does it not say that?

I have a copy of the text. It is rather long, but I will hand it to the right hon. Gentleman.

Read it.

Order. If it is a long statement, it ought to be circulated.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now in a position to make a full report upon the disappearance of 22800177 Acting Bombardier R. W. Pyper of the 71st H.A.A. Regiment, Royal Artillery, following a hostile attack on Monday, 11th January, 1954, on the Old Cairo Road, Fayid

:I have not yet received the full court of inquiry proceedings. I can, however, say that on 11th January this soldier was driving in a truck in a convoy of three vehicles between Tel-el-Kebir and Fayid. Both he andthe driver disappeared when this truck, after falling behind the convoy, was seized by a gang of Egyptians. The most careful investigation was made and is continuing, but I regret there is still no news of these men. I would offer my deepest sympathy to their parents in their anxiety. They will be informed as soon as anything further is known.

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what co-operation he has had from the Egyptian Government? If the answer is "None,"will he bear in mind that serious incidents of this nature are having a very harmful effect on the minds of parents of National Service men? Will he not consider taking much more aggressive and drastic action against the Egyptian Goavernment?

Her Majesty's representative in Cairo has made strong representations about this and other matters to the Egyptian Government.

Will the Secretary of State ask the Foreign Office to make it perfectly plain to the Egyptians that those who most want an agreement on the Suez question find that such incidents as this are a great obstacle to any progress?

Yes, Sir.

What help have we actually received from the Egyptian Government?

I speak only for my Department. As far as the finding of these two men is concerned, I am not aware of any assistance that we have had.

asked the Secretary of State for War the number and composition of the proposed Bermuda garrison; for what reason it is being established; and the movement and annual upkeep costs involved

:Two hundred and fifty men of the infantry and supporting services are being sent to Bermuda at a cost of some £25,000. Their maintenance will cost about an extra £100,000 a year. The garrisonis being re-established to help maintain the British position in the Western Atlantic.

:Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that this is absolutely disgraceful at a time when this country has no strategic reserve, and that to send out even only 250 men at the whim of the Prime Minister is to expose our weakness and to do our defence policy no good?

I think that 250 men in Bermuda can pay a very good dividend in keeping the flag flying there.

Is any part of the cost of this garrison to be met by the Bermuda Government?

:In view of their anxiety to have such a garrison and their generosity in the past, I am sure that we shall not be disappointed at what they contribute.

What induced the Secretary of State to withdraw the garrison in the first instance? Has he been overruled by the Prime Minister in reinstating this garrison in Bermuda?

These matters have to be considered on their merits, and this garrison was sent back.

Is it not true that the only merit in sending these 250 men to Bermuda was to please the Prime Minister after his visit?

If the right hon. Gentleman goes on like this, I shall have to accuse him of having got hold of a "leak."

Is not this another instance, exactly the same as that of the rifle, of the Prime Minister overruling the War Office?

asked the Secretary of State for War how many officers in the Life Guards have applied to resign their commissions during the periods 1st January, 1953, to 30th June, 1953, and 1st July, 1953, to 31st December, 1953, respectively, separate figures being stated for each period.

In the first half-year, two; and in the second, one.

asked the Secretary of State for War how it has come about that 1,000 cases of new Government radar equipment are now lying in Messrs. Cashmore's scrap yards at West Bromwich

These stores weresurplus to our needs. They were ordered in 1945 but, owing to technical developments, the order was suspended in 1948. The stocks were declared obsolete last year and sold by tender in the normal way last December.

Is it not possible for these stocks to be sold to some other country or people? Are they only of use to the War Office and to nobody else? Is this not a possible example of the Government's failure to avoid waste in the Services, a failure which comes ill from a Government who have so often talked about avoiding waste?

:These stores, as I have said, were ordered long ago. They are of a type which I do not want to reveal in the House, but which I will tell the right hon. Member about privately, and are of use only to this country because of their particular function. There was no possibility of selling them to other countries and they are now obsolete and of no use to us.

asked the Secretary of State for War why 22288898 Private Michael Brennanwas not issued with a railway warrant, and was allowed to proceed to Eire in uniform on his discharge from the Army on 12th January, 1954

A man discharged in the circumstances of which the hon. Member is aware does not get a railway warrant. Since on discharge he had not got any civilian clothing and was not entitled to an issue, he was allowed to keep a suit of battledress from which all Army insignia had been removed.

Is the Minister aware that this man was left in the Queen's uniform and had to travel from the barracks in Northwich to Liverpool, from Liverpool to Belfast, and to cross the Border from Belfast to Dublin in the Queen's uniform when he had been discharged from the Army? Under what circumstances does that happen? Will the right hon. Gentleman institute an inquiry into the whole of the matters affecting this man's service? He seems to have been put to the trouble of suffering so many indignities that it has made him completely hostile to the British Army.

:No, Sir. I have been into this matter. The man was discharged with ignominy. That being so, he was not entitled to a suit of plain clothes. When he was discharged he had £10 given to him as pay, and his unit gave him a suit of battledress. He said that when he got his pay he would buy a suit and return the battledress for which he would then have received £1 12s. He did not do this and he went off on his own initiative. I do not see what else the authorities could have done.

Is it the usual thing to leave a man, who is discharged in that sort of way from the Army, in the Queen's uniform, to travel about the country? Is there not something wrong with the whole system that allows that sort of thing to happen?

As I havealready told the hon. Lady, all the badges and insignia were removed. Battledress is used for certain jobs in this country without any insignia that would give any indication of what the man is.

asked the Secretary of State for War how far it is his practice to receive reports from local medical practitioners in respect of National Service men, in view of the fact that National Service man 22872618 Private Godfrey Rudge was examined by his local medical practitioner and certified to be suffering from active ear disease before Ms entry into the Army; to what medical grade this soldier was reduced after his return from Egypt; and why, in view of the fact that it is considered necessary for him to undergo an operation, he refuses to consider theadvisability of releasing him from Her Majesty's Forces.

:Careful consideration is given to all reports from local medical practitioners, but there is no record of any such report to the War Office in this case. Private Rudge, after his return from Egypt, was, on 17th December, 1953, considered fit for service in base and communication areas in temperate climates. While an operation is advisable, he does not want it. He is still fit for service without it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that had the War Office consulted the local medical practitioner it would have known that this man was certified—I have the certificate here—to be suffering from an active ear disease before he entered the Army, and he would not have been sent to Egypt and then invalided back? Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the parents of this boy refused to agree to an operation and is he also aware that they had had six sons, two of whom had been killed, and that they were naturally very anxious about this boy? Will the right hon. Gentleman, in those circumstances, reconsider the matter, especially in view of the fact that the man is not doing anything at all except running about doing errands?

We cannot consult every medical practitioner, but we encourage men who have trouble to bring a medical certificate at their examination. This man was passed fit for these duties in temperate climates and it is his duty to serve. Whether he has an operation is his own affair, but he will not be made to have one if he does not want one.

I am looking into this case and will write to my hon. Friend.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Can we know to what Question that answer referred?

I presume it was the answer to Question 34, but that Question was not asked.

asked the Secretary of State for War the cost of maintaining National Service man 22149853 Daniel Kemmings, Ladywood, Birmingham, since he commenced his National Service nearly five years ago to date

Up to 31st January this year, the cost to the Army had been about £300.

:Would that include the cost of detention, because this man has been in the Army for more than five years without completing his National Service? Is it not very uneconomic to keep a man as long as that?

A good deal of the cost of this man during this period was paid by the Home Secretary.

asked the Secretary of State for War, what is the practice of his Department regarding the holding of men called up for National Service who have proved themselves incapable of being efficient soldiers; and, in view of the fact that National Service man 22149853 Daniel Kemmings, Ladywood, Birmingham, commenced his National Service nearly five years ago and has still to complete a sentence of nine months' detention before his release, if he will consider the advisability of an earlier release for this man

In serious cases the man's whole-time service is prematurely ended. I can find no grounds in Private Kemmings'case for interference with the sentence.

:Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that a National Service man who goes into the Army for more than five years and proves to be entirely unsatisfactory should still be retained in the Army? Is he aware that this man complains of the treatment he received, and that he complained before he was given a court-martial that he was actually handcuffed to the bed for four days? Is the right hon. Gentleman further aware that the man has been locked up for 16 hours a day for the past month and has not been permitted to read? Is that calculated to make him of any value to the country, and is there any use in keeping such a man in the Forces any longer?

This man has been to prison and Borstal and has been under detention. If I were to set theprecedent that military release should follow indulgence in crime, it would be a most unfortunate policy.

Would the right hon. Gentleman explain to the House what is the purpose of retaining this man at public cost in the Services, where he is of no use, and keeping him in constant confinement in order to perform a service which he will not perform and which no one can make him do?

I do not want to retain the man in the Services because of his value, but I do say to the hon. Gentleman that there is a certain equity in these matters. If the man's behaviour is entirely unsatisfactory and automatically he gains his release, I believe it is unfair to the men who behave themselves.

asked the Secretary of State for War for what military purposes the Citadel on Plymouth Hoe is now maintained; what is the annual cost of maintaining the establishment; and how many persons are permanently stationed there

The Citadel is used by the Headquarters, Plymouth Garrison; 47 Coast Regiment, Royal Artillery; Headquarters, Coast Artillery Training Centre and School of Coast Artillery; and the garrison officers'mess. The present strength of these units is 42 officers and 455 other ranks. Also in the Citadel is a Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes families'shop and in or alongside it there are 45 married quarters. Last year the maintenance cost of the buildings, etc., was about £17,000.

In view of the military insignificance of this place, would the Minister consider handing it over to the Plymouth Corporation as some compensation for the various acts of aggression which his Department has carried out on Plymouth Hoe and which constitute the most successful military operation that has distinguished his term of office?

:I cannot consider that 42 officers and 455 other ranks are something of military insignificance. I understand that my hon. Friend the Undersecretary of State had a very successful interview with the Lord Mayor ofPlymouth. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will get in touch with him.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, so far from that interview being successful, only a very small amount of land was restored by his Department to the Plymouth Corporation and whole areas which were once held by Plymouth have now been taken from us by his Department? It seems that the conference was as successful as his other military campaigns?

I think I ought to point out to the hon. Gentleman that if these lands were to be handed back they would not be handed to Plymouth but to the Commissioners of Crown Lands.

Very well, try that for a start.

Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the Citadel is well protected against any assault by the Devonport Foot?

We hope to head them off.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Citadel was first established in the reign of Charles II to try to cow the ancestors of the Foot family, and that it is time they got some recompense for the thievery which went on in the time of the Stuarts?

asked the Secretary of State for War how many mobile battalions are in existence; and what training they are doing

There are 517 mobile columns, which I understand the hon. and gallant Member is referring to. The men in these columns carry out their normal duties and, in addition, take part in special exercises in this mobile rôle.

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that an increase of 15 over the 502 mobile columns in existence in March, 1952, is a satisfactory rate of increase in view of the expenditure incurred in the interval?

Yes, Sir. These mobile columns, formed from administrative units,are merely in being in order to act as extra reserves in the event of a serious crisis.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether British Forces in Germany are equipped with atomic artillery

No, Sir.

:Can the right hon. Gentleman say to what extent the Army is still equipped with pre-1945 equipment, and to what extent the equipment is being modernised either in this form or in any other form?

That is quite another question.

:Can the Secretary of State for War state whether the forthcoming White Paper on Defence will have any comments to make on this very dangerous development of atomic artillery, and whether it is intended to equip British Forces with it in future?

I do not think that I should anticipate the White Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for War to what extent units or collective parties of troops have been transported by the Royal Air Force during the last nine months.

:During this period the Royal Air Force carried 734 men of 49 Infantry Brigade and equipment to Nairobi.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that he is carrying out the promise he made when he presented the Army Estimates last year, when he said that unit transport and similar transport by the R.A.F. should be increased in the Army?

What I said was that, except in an emergency, unit moves had to be done by ship, but that it was myhope to increase air trooping to the maximum extent.

30. Mr. Bellenger asked the Secretary of State for War what number of troops have been transported by private air companies at Government expense in the last nine months.

About 100,000.

:Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the great disparity between the transport of troops by the R.A.F., on whom he would have to rely in war, and by private enterprise; and, therefore, would he reverse the situation so that the R.A.F. is now trained in transporting troops rather than that it should be done by private enterprise?

:I do not think that any special training is needed for transporting troops; and we hope that the present means would be available also in war. This policy, which is followed in conjunction with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Air, is one which is best for the Royal Air Force and best for the efficiency of the trooping scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for War what rank is held by the Director of Army Education

Brigadier.

Does not this put him somewhat at a disadvantage when dealing with colleagues in other Services who, I believe, hold a higher rank?

I am aware of all the factors in this case.

:I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman is aware, and no doubt the officers concerned are acutely aware of it, so is he doing anything about it?

I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman about this now. It is impossible.

Mr. Shinwell: Does the right hon. Gentleman regard the rank of brigadier as being very low at the War Office?

I consider it to be a very handy rank.